Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Courtney Reum On The Truth about Becoming a $1.5B Venture Capitalist and 45-Year-Old Professional Athlete

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

Courtney Reum on Reinvention, Wealth, and Finding “The One” with girlfriend Maggie Sellers | Hot Smart Rich Podcast In this episode of Hot Smart Rich, I sit down with Courtney Reum—serial entrepreneur, co-founder of M13, the $1.5B venture capital powerhouse, best-selling author, philanthropist, and Harvard guest lecturer—who also happens to be my boyfriend. If you’ve searched for Courtney Reum’s net worth, his girlfriend, M13 investments, or his journey as a professional soccer player, you’re in the right place. From starting at Goldman Sachs, launching successful businesses to competing as a professional athlete in Europe, Courtney is one of the most intriguing entrepreneurs who has mastered the art of reinvention—a key trait for entrepreneurs, investors, and business leaders looking to stay ahead. What We Cover: 💡 How Courtney Reum knew he found “the one” (yes, it’s personal!) and insights into our relationship. 💰 His mindset on money, success, and wealth building—how he approaches venture capital, investing, and entrepreneurship. 🔄 Reinvention in business and life—why adaptability is key for founders and investors. ⏰ Time management for entrepreneurs—his practical playbook for how he balances being a startup founder, investor, and athlete. 🗳 Politics, leadership, and values—and how they shape the future of business and venture capital. 🌍 Lessons from competing as a professional soccer player in Europe—and what it taught him about resilience and personal growth. If you’re curious about Courtney Reum and Maggie Sellers’ relationship, how venture capitalists build wealth, or looking for entrepreneurial mindset strategies, this episode is packed with actionable insights and real talk. ✨CONNECT WITH MAGGIE SELLERS✨ 📲 Instagram: @maggiesellers 🎥 TikTok: @maggiesellers_ – Where Maggie Sellers’ TikTok content is breaking down business, investing, and modern female empowerment. 📺 YouTube: @hotsmartrich – Get insights on entrepreneurship, investing, and startup strategy. 💼 LinkedIn: Maggie Sellers – See what’s trending in venture capital and startup investing. ✨CONNECT WITH COURTNEY REUM✨ 📲 Instagram: @courtneyreum 💼 LinkedIn: Courtney Reum – Follow his latest insights on startup investing and venture capital. ✨READ THE NEWSLETTER✨ 📰 HSR ICYMI – Stay ahead with consumer startup trends, business news, and investing insights. ✨SHOP HOT SMART RICH✨ 🛍 HSR Merch – Wear your ambition. 🛍 Shop My – Discover Maggie Sellers’ top startup-backed finds. 🛍 Amazon – Find must-have startup products curated by Maggie. ✨ABOUT MAGGIE SELLERS✨ Maggie Sellers is the founder of Hot Smart Rich, an investment and media company designed to empower women in business and entrepre... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We're rolling. Okay. Many of you may recognize Courtney Ream from being on the skinny confidential twice now, but buckle up because as much as we're going to talk about business and investing today, we're also going to be introducing my boyfriend and covering his relationship with money, family, politics, his passion, football, his pop culture's most controversial takes, and our relationship. So Courtney Ream, are you ready to get Hot Smart Rich?

Yeah, that's a lot. I'm excited for it. I actually don't think we're going to get through everything today, but people are very interested in you. They're very interested in us. So we'll get through what we can. And then maybe you'll come on for another episode. I would love to run it back.

Okay. I am very nervous, excited, which you can obviously tell you're laughing already. Yes. But that's the emotion I felt the most since I met you. do you want to take it away with how we met? Okay, I think I'll harken back to August 2023, a mutual friend of ours, are we naming him? Yeah.

This name's Patrick. He said, I have someone I want to introduce you to. And I said, okay, great. And then he was like, well, she's still engaged, but like, don't worry about that. Don't get caught up in that. And I was like, okay, well, whatever. And then I didn't hear much about it until June. January 2024 where he put us on text, we started a text very much in earnest.

I wouldn't really say there was a whole lot of flow or momentum. I was getting more confirmation numbers for like restaurant reservations or like, you know, like dental appointments than I was getting responses from you. But we persisted a little bit. And we ended up meeting up. in March, middle of March, at a borderline work event,

Natural Products Expo, like the Super Bowl of Whole Foods kind of Aeroon-type brands. It was a really, your sister was there, so she got to witness it. And it was just a very effortless, easy chat.

But I was also, you know, trade shows you're walking the floor, doing a thousand things at once. You're exhausted. You're not in the right head space. I was like a month away from leaving the country for a while,

which I know we're going to talk about. So we saw each other next week. We were supposed to play tennis and have sushi. And probably wise move by your part. You kind of all of a sudden either had an injury or some kind of complication. No, I was like, I couldn't book the court. It filled up already. You couldn't book the court.

I have access to the same courts and it looks like they're wide open. But okay, you couldn't do tennis and sushi. So we just opted for sushi. Did you ever think that you would meet your person at a work event? No, definitely not. I used to go to that trade show and be like, oh, yeah, I'll meet this. like earth friendly beautiful whatever whatever and in 15 years ago and I never met one person I was interested just like I went through a phase where I did triathlons I was like I'll meet someone

here was like a triathlet and we'll have all this in common never once met someone there so you are in this period of your life where you've achieved so much you focused so much on your career and I think I got so many people inbound being like I know Courtney through the skinny confidential and you always said like your number one to four priorities were not having a relationship that was like a true partnership. What do you think shifted since the time that you've met me or was that like going back last year? Was that always something at the forefront of your mind where it's like now is the time I want to really try to find somebody? I think I learned that whatever's fourth and fifth of my priority list. I haven't gotten to some of those big things for

I guess not decades. But what's one, two and three on my list I tend to be really good at. And so I was like, I won't really say relationship. I mean, I've dated. and had girlfriends, but I mean, you know, the relationship or partnership with a capital P.E kind of took a back seat because I was working 100 hours a week at Goldman Sachs. And then I was living outside the country. And then I was starting my first businesses. And it wasn't the intentional plan. But I think as time goes on, you realize it's definitely, of course, partly the other person

and having a real partner. And then it's partly yourself. And there was a lot of myself stuff that I had to get more comfortable with. So it really took probably until my dad passed away, which was six, six and a half years ago, for me to, I think, just kind of get shook and woken up. And by the way, the backdrop is my parents who are married for 50 years, my grandparents who were married 59 on one side, 66 on the other. All of them gave me the advice you think would be opposite once you hear that,

which is take your time, no rush. We got lucky. It's a different time. So you're always like, oh, yeah, tomorrow, tomorrow. That's definitely on my list for tomorrow. It's definitely the five-year plan, not the one-year plan. And then something like, you know, your dad and best friend and oldest friend passing away really suddenly makes you go, wow, tomorrow is not so guaranteed as I thought. I better make sure I'm, you know, as Clayton Christensen says, we all have this one precious life.

What do you intend to do with it? I think that kind of shook up the order of operations. Yeah. I think for me, it's like very different, but similar in a lot of ways. Like I obviously rushed into situations that didn't end up working out for me, which I think when you're a woman and you're getting into like your late 20. your early 30s, you're like, I figured my life would look so different than it does right now. And I think what was so different about you and me from the beginning is like, I knew exactly who I was as a whole person before I was like looking to make somebody else my other half.

And I think for you, you were always so taken aback by how forward I was and how communicative I was and like how I told you how I felt from the beginning. And I think, you know, you're searching around looking for somebody. And then it's hard to describe what it feels like when you do find that person or if you find a partner, what has like been the biggest feeling having now been with somebody that you think of as a partner versus just a relationship? My name was floated when you still had a fiancee, so obviously you weren't entertaining. Let me, let me give my backstory to like the first how we met. So I knew that I wanted to call off my engagement. I wanted to tell somebody, but I didn't want to tell like a close friend

or a best friend or a family member in case I decided to change my mind. So when I went to New York last August. I had been living in a hotel in L.A., knew that this was happening, but it was so scared just to, like, make it real, because then your life sets in and you're like, I don't have a place to live. I don't know where I'm going to go. So I'm sitting on Patrick's couch, who's also a VC. We've done some work together, but he's also just a great guy and just I knew he wouldn't judge me. And I just blurted out, I think I'm going to call off my engagement. And he doesn't even answer me. He just starts immediately texting on his phone. And I'm like, Patrick, are you like going around and telling people and he's like, no, I actually have the perfect guy for you and I'm sending him your TikTok

videos. And I was like, please do not do that. I was so upset at him. I think I left close after because I was like, how could you do that? My parents don't even know. What if this is like, I've never dated someone who's on TikTok. I was like, and how old is she? But okay, keep going. Too old, apparently. I'm just kidding. I didn't understand the context that you were doing something so unique with TikTok. Yeah, we'll talk about that later. But I remember then I went into a full hibernation mode. like heal my trauma, move to Calabasas, rent this horse, just like be one with myself and not be distracted by my ego. And that's my biggest advice for anybody that's listening that feels like they're in this stuck place is like it's so easy to feed your ego going on dating apps,

like trying to get people to set you up with people. And you don't actually go through things. You just try to get through it. And I always tell people whether it's like a family member passing away or a relationship that's ending or a job or whatever you're mourning, the next phase of your life, you have to go through it in order to get through it actually. And so Patrick for months had tried to set me up with you. And I was always just like, I'm not dating anybody. And I really don't want to even be distracted with talking. January 1st sets around. I was like, I'm downloading Raya. I'm downloading Hinge. I'm going back out there. I feel ready. Like, I feel prepared to make better decisions now. And when Patrick then eventually told me who you were once I was healed,

I immediately was like, absolutely not. Like you were just the archetype of the person that I knew could really hurt me because you were good enough for me. And so when you float, when your name was floated to me, I was just like still not ready to be in a relationship that could really, I feel like turn my world upside down if it ended. And so I remember I was just like kind of blowing you off and being very, very hard to text back. Like I remember saying, you'll have to double text me if you want to get a hold of me or something like that, which I don't know how you. We should actually both the actual chain where she's replying once, you're applying once every three days. Oh, sorry, I'm really bad on texts.

I was like, well, how do people get a hold of you? And they're like, they're like, they usually text me twice or they call. And I'm like, I think I just wrote back noted. Like meaning like, you did right back noted. That sounds like a lot of, a lot of effort for someone I've never even met. Even in a relatively short time, we've had an interesting thing where you didn't want to meet me at first. Then I kind of gave up on meeting you based on not getting much feedback.

back, shall we say? And you didn't even want, you even saw me at an event after we had not been texting. But that's the moment that I knew that I said to my friend, I had run away from you physically at Freeze, the art show. And then later that night at the Sotheby's event with Damien Hurst, I remember seeing you with this woman and you looked so friendly and so nice and so not what I had pictured in my head. I make up stories and we'll get into my anxiety later and how you're so good at dealing with that. But I made up a story about you in my head about what you're known for. And I think this is why I'm so excited to be in your life now to get to tell a different side of your story. Because you're known as like Courtney Ream, VC.

Your VC was just noted as like the number four in the U.S., number 14 in the world. You have how much money, Assaminer Management, $2 billion. You have 12 unicorns. You're a bestselling author. You're a professional football player. You're a philanthropist. You have this like incredible life. But deep down, you're so much more than that.

And when I saw you at that art show, I don't know what clicked, but I remember. remember saying to my best friend, if he texts me again, I'm going to respond. And I'm going to like make it so that I can put myself in a situation where we go on a date. So I was a little difficult to get to know. And then I will say the minute I met you at the VC kind of like Whole Foods conference, I knew within 30 minutes, Katie, I'm sorry, I have to tell this part of the story. But Courtney walks in. I barely almost didn't happen, right? Yeah. There was a big line outside, like it was a club in LA and I was like I wasn't I you said you put me down for this event that I wasn't invited to I didn't know about it because the events are kind of funny yeah and I walked up with a friend of mine uh Eric Ryan who's a great founder he started brands like method and Ollie yeah and we both walk up and it goes like I don't see your name there's a big line right capacity I was like I'm tired anyways and someone who I still didn't even remember who it was says from the line these guys just started more brands than anyone at this whole thing you should probably let the two of them in and she just looks at the girl and goes okay I'm tired of okay, go in so that almost didn't even happen.

Well, and it also didn't almost happen on my side because we were so exhausted from the full day that I said to my sister, I really don't want to go to this event. Like, I doubt this guy will even go. And I don't even know if I'm going to like him. So like, we should just not go. And Katie's like, Maggie, you're going. She had this feeling about you from the beginning. So then we are there.

I'm socializing. My sister comes to me and she's like, when he comes, please don't leave me. I get a little social anxiety. Sorry, Katie, I have to share that. And she's like, please don't. leave me. And my exact words were, I am not going to leave you. I don't even think I'm going to like this guy. You walk in and I swear from the minute I like caught your eye, I was like, there's something so different about him. And you walk in with Eric and thank God Eric Ryan had just started a jewelry

brand and my sister was formerly the head of finance at Missouri for five years. And he found out that that's what she did. And they just got encapsulated into a conversation. He's a very charming guy, so he's just easy to talk to. Yeah. And I remember going to Katie. Okay, bye, Katie. See you later. And I just like 30 minutes of talking.

I just knew. I knew you were different. I knew you were like my person. And I think that's where the rules really switched. And I was the one that was very much like into it, very transparent. But I will say the move for somebody with anxiety that is I think why we're sitting in this chair today. and I tell every single guy to do this. If they really like a girl,

what you did every single time we left each other was you would ask me to pull up my phone, pull out my calendar, and you would book a date in my calendar for the next week every single time we finished a date. So you did it at the conference where you were like, you're the busiest person ever,

I can't get a hold of you. And that's saying a lot coming from me, when are you free next week? And we made a date right then. And not just with my anxiety. I never questioned us. I never had to go to my friends and be like,

what is his text message? mean, does he like me? Should I text him first? And I was able to be myself throughout the whole thing where I would like, my personality to you know is like, I'll say thank you after a date. I'm super just grateful for everything that we've done. But I would have second guessed that being like, is that going to come on too strong? Or is he going to think that that's a lot? And now what do you think? Am I a lot? Yes. As we say, you are definitely a lot, but I really love all of you a lot. And it's well worth it. but it's a lot. And remember when we watch that show, what's it called? Nobody Wants This. And there's that scene where I was like, you need to watch this scene because my whole

life, I think this is where it's actually interesting for a lot of women, we're in this like dating crisis because when you love your life and you're full on and you have a career and you have friends and you have your health and wellness and you have this life where it's like big and full, it's really hard to find somebody who can not only match that, but like celebrate it. And in my previous relationships, I've been with people who see. my light and try to dim it because they're worried for whatever reason that it makes them less than or I'm going to leave them. And it's actually a self-fulfilling prophecy because then I do feel like I'm not getting somebody to shine my light bigger. And I remember when that scene came

on and I had watched the first few episodes without you at the beginning, I was like, you need to watch this scene where she's turning around and she's like, I'm afraid that you're going to think that I'm a lot and that like you're one day going to leave me. And I remember you literally after that scene turned to me and you were like, you're the same way. like you are a lot, but I love your allotness. And I honestly think that's another reason why we're sitting here today. Yeah. It's been interesting because I think I've never been in a relationship where at first maybe,

let's just use the word chase, like I was kind of trying to get you to come out with me. Then you were really interested. So I pulled back, was doing other things, getting ready to leave town. Then it kind of turned when we met. I, of course, wasn't not interested, but I think my head was just other places and everything else. So you did a good job of, I made plans because I obviously. saw something there, but then you kind of were very quick to like point out things that I probably wasn't even focused on or noticing at the time. And we were kind of staggering for a while.

And now it's got no place where it's caught up and run the same, the same page. And it still feels like in my heart, like it's still the same nervous energy that you give me every single day. And I think. I was just gone for three days and you came back and you were so nervous yesterday. But I think it's also, this is one of the things that we talk about a lot as women is like masculine and feminine energy. And what's so interesting for you is like, you don't really see the side of me that's very masculine in the way that I do work. It's like even my sister this morning, she's like, the way you speak to me, Maggie, is like really insulting. Like I'm doing my best here

and like, you know, I had to like take a step back and be like, I'm really sorry. Like I don't mean to take things out on you. I'm super direct and very like with work. I know what I'm doing most of the day, especially with people around me that I can just like execute and go and like make hard decisions. But with you, you know, I was so tired of doing that in my my personal life. Like, I was so tired of leading every single thing. And you've put me into this place of like feminine energy in a way where I still feel like I'm being 1,000 percent myself, but I now have this, like, masculine force in my life where it doesn't feel like I have to wear armor every single day. And I think that's something I do work on in therapy all the time is like really taking off

the armor because it's like you and I are a team and we're like trying to do everything. everything together. But I remember when, you know, my, my little fantasy, because I've never been obsessed with celebrities, I've always been obsessed with like CEOs, is I would be like, I really want like a Matt Kaplan to my Alex Cooper or a Yensgrad to my Emma Greed. I don't even know how to say the last name. But that when I first brought it up to you, you were like, that's not at all what I pictured nor wanted. And like, I think you. Especially because Matt Kaplan went to my alma mother, Columbia. Shout out to Columbia. And there's like younger than me and a few other things. I think it's just like the dynamic, you know.

The idea, yeah. Why was that something you didn't think that you wanted? And what are your thoughts on it now? I love my life. I hope everyone listens loves their life, each to their own. We're all only have one life. And I love my life so much that there's not much that could be better. And the main thing, really, the only thing that could be better is like having real

partnership and like a lasting love. And it's probably the one decision left in my life that if I get it right, what's already an amazing life becomes even better. And if you get it wrong, life gets complicated. And certain things that I was focused on, 10, 15, 20 years ago, money or material things are what we call for Hoffman process, the do-be half cycle. Like, I'm kind of finally past all that, which is great. I had to kind of do it to get past it.

But I think that I'd like to think I'm just being selective, but I'm sure there's something between picky, selective, and overly precious. And so sometimes you don't know what it is until you've actually experienced it. and I've started to experience it with you. I love you. Laughs, awkwardly. You touched on something that I really want to talk about, which is your relationship with money

because it is one of the things. I think that is one of the reasons I'm so drawn to you because I grew up in a very privileged situation, but I also had my first job at 14. And my parents never made it an option for us to move home after college. It was like, you're out. You're what my dad would say, like off the payroll, do everything yourself.

And so I think let's maybe give the listeners like a little bit of background. I mentioned you have 12 uterorns. You run a $2 billion or assets under management venture capital fund. But can you just give a little bit of like a background to your professional career? And then I really want to like springboard that into how you think and treat money. It's so funny because I think one of the biggest shifts in my life, again, after my dad passed away, There's an author I loved called David Brooks. One of his books is called The Road to Character.

His dichotomy is more along the lines of most of us spend a lot of our life chasing resume virtues. And I definitely had, you know, I went to two Ivy League schools. I worked at Goldman Sachs. I did this, I did that. You're like who I make fun up on TikTok. Right. So those are resume virtues, and those have served me well. And I am proud of those, but that's really different than a eulogy virtue.

And so he says resume virtues versus eulogy virtues. and eulogy virtues are, yeah, it's great to be a best-selling author, but is that really going to be brought up at your eulogy or whatever life coaching exercise or who's coming your AD with birthday party and who's around there? What are they going to be like, remember when 50 years ago you were a best-selling author? I'm like, actually, I don't remember that. I think it's worth mentioning that because it informs out of his relationship with something money. I grew up in Chicago.

Midwest is very different than L.A. And I love L.A., but thank goodness I didn't grow up here. thank goodness I didn't go to Beverly Hills High School or whatever else. So started at Goldman Sachs, did investment banking. But wait, you totally missed the part where you were actually a model. Yeah, weirdly, that's not on my LinkedIn or my work rest. Can we talk about that? Very briefly, but sure.

I think it's important because I think it shows, again, that like you are not the archetype of the person that's like you knew you always wanted to be invest in banking. Like you are an entrepreneur by heart. And I think, yeah, a lot of people think model like, oh, maybe it's like, egotistical driven, but I actually think it shows you were always thinking differently. Like, graduating Columbia with honors like soccer player, like a lot of people wouldn't think you're going to go and be a model, which you wanted to take off a year, right, to be able to do that, which you weren't allowed to do.

Well, it happened because I graduated. I graduated right after, well, sorry, I graduated and was about to start right before 9-11. So that kind of changed a lot of things. And so the world was in a state of chaos. The economy wasn't good. it's not a good look on Wall Street to say, oh, we're not hiring people that we already had given offers to it and moved to the city and change your career. So they said, who wants to defer a year? You'll get like, I don't know, maybe it was like a third of your base salary enough to live

off at the time. I was like, oh yeah, right here, right here, yeah. Front of the line. I was like cutting everyone. So it was great. And so the modeling kind of came about as like a fun little trist, knowing that I had this job in a year. So, I don't think we'd say much more about that. Okay, moving on. I like to look at the comp card in the gym. Yeah, the comp card is available in the deep, deep archive somewhere. Okay, keep going.

So then you went to Goldman. So I went to Goldman, investment banking, worked down some big deals like Procter and Gamble Gillette's merger, worked on some more entrepreneurial things by Goldman standards, help take Under Armour public, worked on Vitamin Waters' first deal. And you just see a guy like Kevin Plank, the founder of Under Armour and go, wow, he's just like a gritty guy with a good idea. and if he can do it. I don't know if I can, but we're about to find out.

So I think people like that and other people like Kevin inspired me a lot more than I knew. My brother and I started a handful of companies before we got to M-13, tech stuff, consumer brands, took a little time off to write this book. We were on a what I'll call a low-budget shark tank competitor on CBS. And then I think we were trying to figure out our next act, and we said, well,

we seem to be pretty good at investing. We seem to be pretty good at starting stuff. Why not try to find a way to have our cake you needed to and do both under one roof? So we started M13, kind of originally as a consumer tech holding company whereby we invest, which is definitely our main activity,

but we also have a, we call it our launch pad, but something like a twist on an incubator or studio where we start our own brands and partner with other people. So we've started, I think now, something like 15 brands in the last five years. Lucky enough to have relationships

with people like Tony. Robbins so we started a longevity company with him called Lifeforce and some other people yeah um did some corporate JVs and so it's really nice because uh a lot of days i get to feel very entrepreneurial and then some days I feel like an investor and a lot of days I feel like some combo and if we have any superpowers I would say one thing is that we're really good at seamlessly shifting gears between things we we got here by saying yes yes yes and probably juggling and taking on too much and I think the way we'll get to the next level is by simplifying and pruning and being more defined by what we say no to and what we say yes to, but that's my own life coaching things I need to work through. But I think we're good at shifting

gears seamlessly doing both. And I think we're also really good at, we used to call it the Hollywood production model venture where you kind of see the dots, connect the dots, put the pieces together, the same way people to come together for a movie and go, we got the best director. We have this actor, this actress. We come together for a scope of work and start a company, start a project. and those two things have served just really well for sure. I think the luxury of that to be able to do that is like you've been able to put yourself in a position to afford time. Like you can really sit back and think.

And that's one of the things like I also love about you is you just like you are a very busy person. Your days are slammed. But I do think when it comes to really big decisions, like you have afforded yourself this luxury to think about what you actually want to do. And a lot of people are not at that place in their career yet. But I think now that you are where you are, the way you treat money going back to

what I really wanted to talk about is so fundamentally different than most other men that are in your position especially. Can you, I don't want to speak on your behalf or whatever you're comfortable to share. So can you just talk about what you're comfortable with with the way that you think about money and the way that you leverage money and what you spend money on and where you just like think it's a waste? Okay. I'll start and then feel free to leave your witness. Going back to my parents, like, you know, we weren't poor growing up, but we weren't L.A. wealthy. And as time went on, my, my my parents and I say parents because my dad was the one working my mom made a lot of sacrifices she has an MBA from Columbia too in class of 1972 and they have a Harvard business case study together

that's on their wall an article that was on the front of the Harvard business review but yeah but my mom graduated from Columbia in 1972 when a class was 500 people and like 20 25 women so my mom likes to say and I know she said to you I didn't really know who a lot of people were but they all know who I was she's amazing um So I think my parents were not showy, very good Midwesters. I mean, the whole deal. My mom drove Dodge Caravans for many, many years, quintessential soccer mom.

My dad drove Jeep Cherokee when that was kind of considered a cool, nice-ish car, but definitely not a showy car. And, you know, my brother and sister and I all have different manifestations of that. But I think for starters, you know, what is money? Money is just a store of value, right? So what's a store of value? It gives you freedom and options and going back to work. I mean, there's a lot of luxuries that I would have.

thought I earned 20-something years into my career, but the one I'm sure about is that I have earned, yeah, maybe I work less than I worked at Goldman for someone else, and I definitely work less than I do when I was really grinding and starting out, but I still work more than I'd like, but I have the freedom to do it how I want, where I want, when I want, and so, you know, you're with me. I still work quite a few weekends, but there's days where I do personal things and I make up for it on planes and whatever else I work in cars when you're getting car sick. I actually have a thing I'm going to do on TikTok one day that's like all the places that my boyfriend works because you work literally will be away in Europe and like get to do some sightseeing and then from like 9 p.m.

until 12 in the morning you're working or grinding or last night you just got home from a work trip we got to go for dinner and then you're like back on your computer before bed and it's actually like such an admirable I think one of the things I really aspire to because now we live in this world where it's like super remote you can kind of you know do or make your own fantasy of where you want to work, but you have this work ethic. I feel like that you just can't even get rid of if you tried. Well, I also think, I don't know, like work is kind of like working out, right? A lot of people are, I don't have time because they want it to like line up with these

perfect circumstances. Like, I have blocked my hour and a half. I will walk 10 minutes. I'll work out for an hour. I'll come back. Sometimes I do that. But most of the time, you know, you know what happens during the day and things get thrown off.

So it's like, and you're the same way because I've, I've seen you do like lunges and airports where it's like, sometimes I work out for 10 minutes, sometimes I work out for 45. Sometimes I flip my laptop open and I'm like it's changed a little bit. But in general, I used to never do anything on my phone because the amount I can accomplish when I flip my laptop open, hotspot in the back of a lift, shout out to lift as an early investor, you can do so much more in 10 focus minutes in that lift than I can when I'm like half listening on my phone. It's hard to work on your phone.

I'm reading this. I'm flipping this to see the presentation. So it's just about like kind of being really organized and ruthless efficiency. Money. money at this point some of my things I think okay let's just call it what it is wait let me hold I'm like I'm gonna say one thing okay okay at this age I don't think I don't I think psychology would say I can probably not change my mindset but I'm just super value oriented so yes I can spend what to most people in ungodly someone not blink an eye and I will throw down with someone over seven dollars if I didn't

reap the value from it and it's it's it's I think overwhelmingly a good quality but sometimes I'll do something and you haven't really questioned me on it but other people when they see it's $12. I was like, but you know that's like not even $1 value and I'm not, you know. I love that about you though. And also I remember the first day that we went on. I'm wearing heels. And he pulls, we're going to Sassaboon. Is that how you say it? Dyslexia problems. Um, you were actually the person that told me to like be really upfront about my dyslexia. And thank God I did because now I just feel like a weight has been lifted off my chest. But I'm, that's great. I don't know how you did it before because you didn't know what's like so

endearing cute. I didn't, but I wasn't sure it was like the Canadian accent or something. I was giving you the benefit. But so we're walking to Sassaboon, eh? And I remember you look so hot. You're wearing my favorite outfit of yours. And those, you're being part of sneakers, yeah. And we're walking from the street and you're like, one thing about me, I don't pay for ballet.

And I was like, that's so hot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I just think the way like you think about money and I know a lot of, I'm, I also fall victim to this. Like we live in this world of materialism and consumption. And like, you know I want an ermaz bag so freaking badly.

You've seen me get rejected from how many Hermes stores by now? Dozens. Dozens. And even if I could get you, which I may or may not be able to do it. I don't even think I'd want to because it's like, I think it would take away some of the adventure. I would be okay if you got me in Hermes.

I mean it's really humbly get rejected from Hermes and like, because wasn't that one of the things that you love about me? Because I was like, I would just go and get rejected and be like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Like a lot of people I feel like would be embarrassed by that. But for me, it was like, it's just a learning experience rejection therapy. But anyway, you have. have you fly economy and you have a very big thing on like if we're traveling in the

us it's not a red eye we're not going to india like why would i spend my money on traveling first class and i have so many friends and even myself included like i value that comfort or that time or just different things and so i'm trying to really understand for the people that are starting off the new year and this is a huge theme already on ticot of like how do i get my finances in order and how do i think about money and how do I not fall victim to these halls and all these things that I need to buy, you are the blueprint of being able to like now have the money to do whatever you want, but you choose to spend it in a way where it's just so different than how the world has crafted us to be. Like, why and how is that? I think it's just being really true to like what lights you

up, you know, and I think maybe even compared to my brother and sister, like if retail therapy works for them, great. I never have. You've been around. me like I've actually done probably more shopping than I ever do and still I don't think a lot but it's also like what brings you joy and where do you derive that I mean just yesterday I was flying back from Texas and it's like I was flying back with a bunch of my employees I do think it sets a good example you know leading from the front sitting in economy it wasn't my plan or maybe in that case leading from the back just like Mitt Romney does I I hope he does it for the right reasons but even if he doesn't he's a tall dude he's taller than I'm and he still sits in the back when he's going to congress meetings

and gets heckled and all that stuff and I think I always view it as like none of these things are infinite. So it's like if you fly in general, even when I, as Tim Ferriss once told me, you know, when you have no money, you have to prioritize your money over your time. And once you get some money, then you should prioritize your time over your money. Okay, wait, there's so many other things I want to touch on. And I know we just hit like the 30-ish minute mark. Where do you want to go from here?

You said something about politics, which I would love to talk about, but we don't have to. A little bit more about where you do find joy soccer. I think that's so cool and I really want to talk about too. So where do you want to go from here? Well, this is kind of like a first date with your audience. So we probably shouldn't talk religion and politics. I would love to if I voted for Kamala Harris.

Yeah. Anyway. I voted for democracy. And, you know, I like the United States. I like this planet we live on. I'd like to stay here. So, yeah, I voted for stability. Well, this is actually a tip that I have for brand building.

This is something I think that's really important to do when your first building is like you need to make your values. brands are people. And so like what consumers don't like is feeling like you are somebody that you're not. And then one one day when you feel like you can now talk about politics, you're going to come out with a stance that people are like, wait, what? Like you're a Kamala supporter. You're a Trump supporter. It's like being known who you are from the beginning. And I think that's what the whole goal of hot, smart riches and why it resonates with people is like, I am not here to pretend. I am not here to be somebody that I'm not. Like I, that's one of the reasons I love you is like you are so for democracy for women like you've been a champion of like the underdog

I feel like for so long for the greater good of America so regardless if it's like the first day with the audience or not I want them to know who you are and like the reasons that I love you and the people that aren't here for that it's like that's okay and I think for me it's like the hardest thing about moving to to the states truly was like there isn't dialogue there isn't this conversation where you can be like I'm a Kamala supporter or Trump supporter and people are like that's okay Like, let's have a conversation. Yeah. I mean, I think it's mostly about, you know, so much of us so hung up on being right.

And I say that as someone that for years, we just wanted to be right. Now I just want to get to the best outcome generally. I try. That's what I aspire to, but it's certainly not 100%. But I also think it's like when someone's like, well, you voted this way or you said this, let's try to not make it about politics. But it's like, yeah, this is what I thought at that moment. And it's only fair to, what people need to be better about saying, in my opinion is,

I thought that at that moment, based on the information I had and where we're at in the world, and you're absolutely allowed to shift your point of view based on new information. The world's in a different place, whatever else. Can you walk people through your history with soccer? Because you started super late. And then we'll touch a little bit on what you did a month after we met and how it went. Because I think it's one of the most admirable things that I've seen somebody to do that's reached your level of success. Thank you.

Sure. Quick sip here. quick. I'm always eating the joke is in my company and I ever zoom I'm eating so can I just take one little bit? Yeah and I actually think our we actually bonded over choms when we first met. Yeah so I'm obsessed with choms. It's one of my favorite brands.

I take it everywhere because I'm celiac. It's the best travel snack. And I remember when I was, I think when we met at the conference you maybe saw in my bag or something but I had like eight or ten different choms and then you were like. I was impressed and I was like this is a very special place in my heart. Yeah. So my

very first game and you'd have to know my dad, He loved to tell this story later. We went to the first game, come off, and he's going, oh, my God, my son is horrible. This is going to be it. But rather than go in everything he wanted to say, he said, let's just try and focus on two things. One, when you're out on the field, try to uncross your arms. It might help like you get near the ball or look a little more interested. And two, when the coach goes to make the substitutions, don't look at them so hard,

and maybe you'll get to stay in for another rotation. So we literally started from that place and had this amazing coach. who my dad found named Brett Hall, who I recently reconnected with after 25 years. So it was really special. Worked with him every day this one offseason went from being like, I was on varsity as a freshman to like being Allstate the next year.

And from there, my club team was one of the best in the country. We were first national champions from Illinois. We were state champions, I know, seven or eight years in a row. We were so much better than the next best team. And we won state final game, my senior year, eight to one. That's not a hockey score for our Canadians listening. That's a soccer score.

score, football score, eight to one. I didn't even start, and I scored a hat truck off the bench. Like, that's how good we were. Played in Columbia was the start of my freshman year. Tour my ACL, very first day of sophomore year, so it kind of derailed things, but everything happens for a reason. Freshman year, I didn't do much other than study and play. By sophomore year, I was running for class president student government,

became a promoter in New York City with the guys who run Tao and all that stuff, story for another time. But it kind of opened the aperture. And even after school, I think, thought I could do more and I think based on the fact that I was left foot in fast like some people were kind of interested but you know who knows if I would have made a team unlikely had a job at Goldman Sachs and then we put a pause on that and I think I think just the last few years I'm lucky to have a lot of friends who just do amazing things that inspire me you've you've heard about all of them

I could name dozens of them but one that comes in mind because we've talked to him as a guy like Mike Posner, the singer who people might know who said took a pill in Ibiza, which he's, embarrassed by that song now, but I still love it. It's catchy, but wrote cooler than you from his dorm room at Duke, which would have been cool to be friends with him. I fell in love with you in Ibiza. There you go. He fell in love in Ibiza.

He can probably do a little serenade for us. He walked across America, right? Six months and three days or something. He walked from the Atlanta to the Pacific. I had all these friends have done stuff. And for years, I was like, what's my walk across America? That's not how I phrased it, but we'll phrase it that way from it. like what's my version of walking across America?

Ball back to soccer, I started playing a little more, and I was like, wow, some days it's not that much worse than it used to be, and some things are actually maybe better, maybe my game EQ's better, some things are worse, I'm slower and whatever else, but not that much slower, and wouldn't it be cool to see what's possible. Why don't I try and do a Ryan Reynolds, welcome to Rexum, but take it one step further in play, meaning I invest in a team, and, well, let's say I owned a team, obviously I can make a choice to put myself in. And you can say it's not based on merit, which it's not.

But at the same time, I still went out there and did the work. And I struck this deal about a year ago. And then I had about eight, nine weeks to train three, four hours a day, six days a week, around my day job, which is part of the reason I was a little distracted when I met you. But to the extent my body held up and it points it dint, I probably trained three, four hours a day for eight, nine weeks. And I went out to Portugal and spent a little over a month, playing a lot. for a team called Villavredense, FC up north for anyone who's of Portugal.

League two, though. That's really high. League two, yeah, it was second division of Portugal. Every game was available on TV. Media rights deal, streaming service. You can watch my game anywhere in the world, which you did. I think that was actually one of the moments. Like when you sent me the clip of you wearing my jersey watching the game,

I was like, wow, like she's so supportive. She really feels like a partner even though you were not my partner yet at the time. And just the whole experience of being there for a month, training every day, playing in some games, didn't get hurt. Nothing went horribly wrong. I went into the game, didn't even lose the ball once when I was in. I mean, the whole thing, I'm sure there's a way it could have gone a little better. Maybe if I scored a goal, it would break the internet.

But just as easy, I could have stepped, broke my ankle and then been a meme on the internet. Well, that's what I was going to say is like why I think even my dad message me as soon as he saw the front page of the Wall Street Journal. And not many people would ever do what you did. And like even for me, starting this podcast, like I was saying in an episode before this like once the stakes get higher you're so afraid to fail especially when it's public right and like you could have been made a laughing stock on the internet and the last you talked about this is when you were on the skinny confidential about to go and yeah a lot of people did say comments like oh well you've

bought your way onto this or it's not based on merit and it's like you did something that so many people are afraid to do and I think for people listening to this that are starting off the year and are like I want my big thing or I'm not even a big thing I just want the next thing for me the next challenge like how did you have to, or did you have to change your mindset towards like feeling nervous or feeling scared or putting yourself back into a position where it's like you could fail, especially with a stage that big? I just love pushing myself. I'm really competitive. I used to have a pretty healthy but occasionally unhealthy competitive relationship with others. Now it's just nice to feel like it's mostly with myself. And it's just cool to, yeah, I had an opportunity that very few people would have,

but I'm very proud of the fact that, one, I made my own opportunity. I think so many people underestimate, figure out what your unfair advantages are, make your own luck, create your own luck, carpe dm, whatever cliche phrase you want to use, cliche phrase you want to use. And so I made my own luck, but I put in the work. Like I put in those three, four hours a day. And I think just most people underestimate what they're capable of.

And yeah, for sure, if I go scroll the comments on my Instagram, just like when I scrolled the comments of, when I wrote a book, that was really humbling because you read all the good reviews. And then someone was like, let's start from the bottom up. Like there was like a two-star review that was like when I narrated my book, it was like sounds like a third grader stuttering through a book report. I think it was something like that. Then the one-star review, which felt a little personal was like, yeah,

sounds like a third grader studying through a book report dot, dot, dot, dot that he didn't even write. Can I just interject for a second about how like, again, women that think that like you have to let the man make all the moves and like play this cool thing. I was not cool with you at all. Like I got your book. I listened to you on audio book. I would like text you be like, this is my favorite part or this like made me feel really close to you when you started talking about your dad. And I would love to hear because I've actually never asked you what that was like because you've told me other stories of girls you had dated that you would like say read my book and they'd be like, I'm good. What was that like when somebody was like,

I love what you're doing. I've researched you. I've put. the effort in like not played it cool at all. Well like we said to each other, I think effort is sexy, right? In all things. And yeah, it's a fine line. I mean, not that long ago. I don't think I've, hopefully it never comes across this read my book. It's more like taking interest in the person you're interested in.

Yeah. And there is someone that's, you know, in the not too distant past where I remember, maybe it was how I came across. But however I came across, she basically felt like I was a narcissist by saying, read my book. Even when I said read my book, she wanted to start something. like this honestly I think could be a good place. Right.

So it's a fine line, but this is what it's about like knowing someone and going, oh, he's not a narcissist. Hopefully it's just, it was just a suggestion. But I think the fact that you did that was showed me that you were cared and you were interested in. And very curious. And very curious. Curious would never be.

Curious doesn't do you justice, but it's a, it's a start. Okay. We're going to go into a little bit of rapid fire because we're coming to the end. Great. I want to do this series one day. Tiny things to get rich that I've learned from my boyfriend. And I want you to add to the list after I finish reading out what I've already learned from you. Always send the first follow up after an intro and faster than you think.

Always write down notes after a meeting so you know exactly what's happened with followups. Be pleasantly persistent. What you say no to is more important than what you say yes to. And the last one is without a good strategy, the best tactics in the world will take you nowhere. What is one more thing that we can add to the list? That's a tiny thing that people can do to help them get rich. Wow, that was such a good list. And I should say all those were talked to me by other people, which is the, which is the most important thing. I have like, remember I'm going to do couples jeopardy of us of all these like crazy things and maybe you'll win a big prize. Yeah. I think

for almost everything you do in life, it's important to keep a microscope in one eye and a telescope in the other eye because you have to keep an eye on the near term and the medium or long term. And one without the others, kind of a waste. Perfect. What is your information diet? What is your favorite newsletter, podcast, book? What do you consume on a daily, weekly basis? I really try to have a mix of some pop culture, some things that are germane to me like tech, some things are germane to me like consumer products, some political things, some views outside the U.S. right? Because we get caught up in our very U.S.-centric view. So as you know, most days, if I can help it, I'm a big believer, you know how that first hour or two goes so two goes your day and I realize that a lot of people are

not in the fortunate position to control those especially you know for kids and everything else but I am at least as of right now so as you know I like to kind of do some of my little routines while I do stuff but I easily spend hour to an hour and a half to start my day to try to kind of orient around that information diet I think that's another tip that we should put on the tiny things list which is net zero dead time net zero dead time is I like to do stuff like I'll hang upside down on my inversion thing in the morning while I read a certain newsletter. In front of red light. Yeah, I stand in front of red lights while I read other ones.

If I can, I go in my infrared sauna and cold plunge. And I totally acknowledge that not as well as access to those, but whatever it is for you. You could go on a walk and maybe safely read something or listen to something. So it's not splitting your attention so much as like if you were having a conversation while you walk, listening to something, a phone call, or even with a coworker, research shows that like actually the the fact that you're moving while you do that stimulates a different part of creativity than most people have yeah great thinkers in history like Charles Darwin did almost every meeting while he walked so it's things like that that's zero dead time I cannot do a day you know that's I love walking and so today we were obviously there's so much going on this week and I said Katie like my number one priority is getting out for a walk so I can be creative and just like be in the flow and I think that's like a non-negotiable that I have what's a non-negotiable that you have to be. be the most like hottest, smartest, richest version of Courtney Rame. Okay, how about if I say one?

I'll say one for you. Yeah. Can I go first? Yeah, I bet you're going to take mine. Go ahead. Eight hours of sleep. Oh, nailed it. All right.

Good work. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I was like, what did Jeff Bezos and I have in common? No, like, you are not a fun person. I thought you were going to say that we both like to work out or, okay, not hair, but yes. You are not a fun person if you don't have eight hours of sleep. What is your, I was going to ask you a controversial opinion about somebody that I love,

but what is your most controversial opinion? it's a shame that people sometimes sit on the fence in general it's good to have opinions doesn't mean you should voice all them doesn't mean they should be so strongly held but i think it's great and people have opinions what's what makes the world go around what is your coffee order we ask everybody but i can i can tell them because i make your coffee because you don't actually like coffee but if you drink coffee it is with macadamia nut milk it is with creatine a scoop of creatine a scoop of creatine a scoop of protein powder a little salt and an espresso yeah close enough i've i've i've more coffee in last five years than I have in the previous 40.

I would have lost like six months with me. Yeah, it's more just like a ritual. You know, there's not many rituals as 70% of all people do, but as you know, I'm not really a coffee drink. I barely drank it in college, barely drink it now. I'll tell you, for anyone listening, go in a sauna and a cold plunge. A cold plunge will wake you up better than any a cup of coffee. But I'm happy to do with you because it's a nice ritual, but sometimes you join me for

a nice macho. Yeah. Okay. I want to talk really quickly about your biggest red flags in business. What is your biggest red flag in business? hubris, like excessive pride. I think that's the Greek translation. It's basically, you know, there was this period

where you could build the company of like the run through walls, just like incredibly brash, whatever. The red flag is not knowing, thinking you have it all figured out or thinking you're just the person and totally indispensable because most of the best leaders I know

know what they're good at, know what they're not good at, and it's who you surround yourself with, which is how our government and presidency should work ideally type of thing. What is your personal mission statement? I think it's something around wanting to be an innovator with an eye toward like impacting global change in whatever ways I want. And those are probably changed from 10 years ago to five years ago to now.

But I also think like now I think much more about anything I do. Can I build? Is there a legacy not just for me or not just my family or my next of kin, but some like broader group of people? Like that's what I would like to do because, you know, when we're all dust and stuff like, what are you remembered for? I try to keep that in mind a lot more than I used to. Thank you so much for coming on. You make me feel like I can do anything. And if I pictured my life at the beginning of 2024,

and you told me that it was going to be like it is today, I probably wouldn't have believed you. But I hope everybody finds their Courtney Raine because you just make me feel like I can do anything. And hopefully everybody that's listening gain something from this and wants to have you back on because I could talk to you literally every single day. So thank you for coming on Hot Smart Rich.

And I love you. I love you too. one question. Yeah. Hopefully this isn't the end of calling me lucky number three because I like it. We haven't even touched on lucky number three, which is a whole other episode. Oh, okay. No one even knows why or how it came to be, but like and subscribe and comment to this. And then we'll get Courtney Raine back on to talk about lucky number three.