Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Dianna Cohen on Firing Herself as CEO of Crown Affair to Become the Biggest Hair Brand in Beauty (Re-Run)

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

Dianna Cohen, founder and ex-CEO of Crown Affair, joins Maggie Sellers to reflect on what it took to build the premium beauty brand redefining clean luxury in haircare and the future of founders as creators.  What You'll Hear In This Episode: From working with Emily Weiss to building her own brand—Dianna’s evolution from beauty insider to beauty founder of Crown Affair The early days of Crown Affair and how her time at Away shaped her approach to brand strategy and storytelling Why Dianna stepped down as CEO—what she's doing at the brand now and how it unlocked a new creative chapter The clean luxury playbook: how she built Crown Affair into a category-defining brand Raising $15M and scaling to $20M in revenue—without compromising brand integrity Maggie’s take on the identity shifts every founder faces—and the freedom of letting go Dianna’s blueprint for building brands that feel personal, purposeful, and powerful ⸻ This episode is sponsored by: ⁠⁠Pique⁠⁠ - Use this link for 20% off. Frate Returns - Tell them HSR sent you and learn more here ⸻ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ If you like what you hear, rate, review, and subscribe to Hot Smart Rich, the podcast supporting women who own their worth — in business, wealth, and life. Subscribe on YouTube ⸻ 💌 Own your worth — and build the life you want. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter, the no-BS guide to startup life, consumer brands, and becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self, written by Maggie Sellers. Join 250,000+ women building wealth, confidence, and community on their own terms. Subscribe here ⸻ Follow Maggie: Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Locker ShopMy Amazon Storefront ⸻ Follow Dianna: Instagram TikTok Substack: Take Your Time⁠ Crown Affair  ⁠Website⁠ ⁠Sephora ⸻ More from Hot Smart Rich: The Hot Smart Rich Money Mindset  Merch ⸻ This episode ... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids, and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my head of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IG Private Wealth.com.

This episode is brought to you by Tellus Online Security. Oh, tax season is the worst. You mean hack season? Sorry, what? Yeah, cybercriminals love tax forms. But I've got Tellus Online Security. It helps protect against identity theft and financial fraud so I can stress less during tax season or any season.

Plan started just $12 a month. Learn more at tellus.com slash online security. No one can prevent all cybercrime or identity theft. Conditions apply. In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Hello, Diana Cohen. Hi.

Are you ready to get hot, smart rich? I mean, already, let's do it. I'm so happy that I have you today because on a personal level, I'm having a hair crisis, which we're going to talk about first, just to warm us up. Let's do it. Second is like, you have such an interesting career trajectory. I also was at a direct-to-consumer darling. So there's just like so much to talk about in terms of being an operator to being a founder.

and like the journey of raising a series B and everything that you've done. So to start, we're going to talk about my hair grace. Okay. That's my favorite thing talking about, so let's get into it. Which, by the way, like, I think makeup used to be the thing at Sephora. And now it is like so hair care. Everybody cares about like luscious locks. My issue, and I'm hoping you can diagnose me.

Yes. I went from having like not more than two showers a week, disclaimer. Yeah. Because I didn't need to wash my hair, like washing my hair. Sorry. I knew you thought you showered the other days. Yeah, I'm like, I did shower every day, just washing my hair was like twice a week. Yes.

Now I have to wash my hair literally every single day because I have such bad grease buildup. Do you see this a lot with women going into like their 30s from their 20s? Well, yeah, so your hair changes every six to seven years. So it's normal for, yeah, it has a lifespan of like six to seven years. So that's why it feels like every decade your hair changes, but it's really like that seven year mark. You're going to have different things happening. Also, so much of it's from the inside. So maybe there's something hormonally.

My advice is like, get your blood work done. Talk to a tricologist before you like start. What is a trichologist? Tricologist is someone who specifically studies the scalp. So some germs are tricologists. But honestly, I'm like a big believer in auditing what you're using. Okay. Before you like layer in new stuff.

So like take a look at ingredients, do some Googling. You might just be using something that's too heavy for your scalp. Or there might be a harsh surfactant system. So, you know, when you use like a face cleanser and like overstrips your face and then you end up, like, getting greasy and oily. Yeah. Because it's like so, that might be happening near a scalp. Wow.

So you want to use a naturally derives refaction system. A lot of companies, like take out sulfates. I'm sure what you're using is sulfate-free. But a lot of companies replace them with pegs, which can also be really harsh on the scalp. So we can do a little audit. Okay. Well, I hope that you saw in my bathroom that there is Crown Affair,

but here's my problem is that I travel so much that like I'm using hotel shampoos and conditioners. No, no, no, no. So what do I do? You would not go to a hotel and be like, I hope they have my skincare. You're so right. Why did we do this? No, it's unhinged. You need to bring your own shampoo conditioner. Okay, but it seems like you know so much about the science, which like you're not a scientist by background. So can you just like walk us through your background and how you got to become the founder of Crown Affair? Yes. So I'm not a scientist. You are correct. Ding ding ding, ding. You did your research. So I went to NYU for undergrad. As I said, I studied art history and Italian. Okay. I. I, I, didn't know what marketing was, if I'm being honest with you.

So anyone out there listening who's like, I'm a marketing major, I truly thought marketing was like old school madmen advertising, did not realize that like building brands and storytelling was something that was a job, which is so crazy. It shows you how I'm dating myself a little. Yeah, I'm like to say, how old are you? I'm 33. Okay, we're like, say I'm 32. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I interned at a ton of places in college, which was great. My last internship was at Into the Gloss. After Into the Gloss spent a decade building other consumer brands, but always. was on the brand marketing, community building, early influencer, all of that friend who's actually my husband's best friend from elementary schools of bioengineering chemist. Cool.

So he really helped me on all of the early product. Now we have amazing chemists and contract manufacturers and innovation is super important to me. I think because I come from outside of the hair care industry, I'm so much more intentional and thoughtful and curious. I always say that if you walk into a contract manufacturer and you ask for a dry shampoo, like you're going to get an aerosol dry shampoo. So or like ask for a hair gel.

You're not going to get a hair gel that brushes out. So I think because the category, there's just been like, this is what we always do. It's really hard to get innovation. So I weirdly think not having a science background is helpful. But yeah, have amazing scientists around you because that's truly like the only way you're going to, I think, create truly innovative product. So you have a rule that's like you have a hero product of every single thing that you put out, which I actually love.

Do you design products? from like what you want the end state to be. So like you want a dry shampoo to be X, Y, and Z. And then the team goes almost like backwards to find it. Or how do you develop products that have a hit every single time? Well, thank you for saying that they're hit every single time. It's actually funny too because you'll launch something into the world and it might go well. And it might be like two years later that people finally try it and love it.

It becomes this hit. So the first like 12 products in Crown Affair were based off a Google Doc that I made in 2018. And it was like all the things I swear by from like a hairbrush, like a beautiful. handmade hairbrush to the hair towel, to the dry shampoo, to the hair mask. So that was like the base, that was basically the roadmap of like the original products. We've obviously, I think we have like 18 or 20 skews now. But you only have 18 or 20 and how long have you guys been around for? It's been five years. So think about that. Because everybody thinks about the fact that you have to be launching products all the time and you've done only 18 products in five years. Yes. And it's because

A, there's so many products in the world. B like as a smaller brand, right? I'm not like a corporation like it takes time it takes like two and a half years from like ideation to actually launching it and testing and sampling I mean I think the we went through like 58 lab samples for like our one product shampoo yeah our recent shampoo and conditioner and I didn't launch with shampoo and conditioner which from an investor perspective I got so many eyeballs wait so what was your first product it was we had four products okay it was the post wash routine so like the second you get out of the shower hair towel comb which are handmade in Switzerland our brush, which is for later, which is handmade in Italy. And then our first formula product is our

hair oil. Wow. Only five ingredients inspired from a trip I took to Japan in 2019. I went to a head spa. They used subaki seed oil on my hair. And I was like, why is my hair? Just the oil's so hydrating, but weightless. And a lot of the oils that I was trying here are just like heavy. Yeah. And I have a lot of hair, but like it's fine. I was to say like, do you have fine hair or do have really thick hair? Oh, it's fine. Okay. If I put something too heavy on my hair, it's done. And I always joke with Crown Affair to your question earlier. It's like so much of it is the component. It's the experience.

But it's also like I am making products that like get you on more day to wash day. I love that like hydrated but weightless hair aren't like heavy on your head. It's so important, you know. That's amazing. Did you always want to be a hair care founder? No, no, no. I didn't, as I was saying like I didn't know what I went to NYU thinking that I would like work for Anna Wintor one day. Okay.

You were like a media girl. Everyone totally. Yeah. I wasn't a media girl. I just watched the Devil Wars Prada 7,000 times and was like, I can be Andy Sacks. This is great. Oh my God. But honestly, like I went into college in 2009. I graduated a year early in 2012. And even then, it was just like the internet was happening. So it's also a bit of a function of just the time and got into the e-commerce space. And I will say I've always been obsessed with beauty and Into the gloss was Bible for me. So I think I've always been really passionate about this. And I'm, I don't know. I didn't think I'd be a hair care founder, but looking back, I was obsessed with hair when I was a kid. And it's always that, like, final accessory. So I didn't know it, but it doesn't surprise me. Yeah. So you and I both worked at direct consumer darlings, like, around the same time, which if you did not get lucky enough to work at a direct to consumer

darling, it was like an experience you can't explain. Just like the amount of money that was thrown into the brands, like the amount of just like brands that were built that were iconic in nature, I feel like is so hard to do nowadays. You guys have done it, which we'll get into later. what do you think you learned that you do the same as that time? And what do you think you do that you're like, I can never operate like that in my own brand having lived it as an operator? Yeah. So I would say like 80% of what I learned is what not to do. Yeah, same. Not how to not, you know, the hiring mistakes, the spending money, the fundraising too much, all of that. Like moving fast and breaking things and those things being people, I'm so grateful. And I say this all

the time, especially to people just starting out in their career. Like it is important to work for other people because you learn from their mistakes. There was also magic and I think the common thread between every single job that I had, whether it was Into the Gloss, Away, Outdoor Voices, Harry's, like those founders really did have a vision. And I feel like even with Crown Affair, it's about putting something into the world that changes the way that people feel about themselves. And it isn't really just about the product. It's more about the ethos of the brand. And I think all of those businesses did that really thoughtfully. When I was a, marketing manager, marketing director for a

director for a drug to consumer darling. I managed an $18 million budget in one year, like deployed $18 million. Dude, that's... It was crazy. I, yeah, I learned on somebody else's time. Yeah, we raised like $100 million in four years and burnt $100 million in four years. It was insane.

I was throwing like the opening party at Art Basel. And what that did for me was like it really created a competitive advantage where I like had an insane network. I knew what not to do like you said. But I also think like my relationship with money became a little bit skewed because I was so used to like the highs and lows of fundraising and just like things being so accessible and being able to buy your way into anything.

What do you feel like your relationship is with money as like someone who's steward Crown Affair from like now it's like your own baby, you know, it's like so different when you're spending your own money. How do you guys think about money at Crown Affair and like what to invest in and what not to? This is by the way such a good question because I, it's funny, even though I was on marketing teams at other businesses, I actually felt like I didn't have massive budgets in like the grand scheme of things. Like I had to be really scrappy. I've always been on the organic side of marketing. So like, for example, at a way, like the team that got a lot of budget was the paid marketing

team. For sure. So I've always been the organic marketing girl, which is like brand partnerships. Even influencer at the time was different. It wasn't the same in 2016. You're not getting paid like 50 grand for one dick to all. It was like, here's a suitcase. It was so different. So I was always making magic. I remember even we took over a hotel. Paris and I think I had like 150k budget and I got the hym sisters to come and DJ I got emily rata casketa to host an event I got Danielle bernstein all these people just came we obviously comped their flights in the hotel but like it was all relationships right um all the partnerships i did there so it was like it was all relationships it was structuring things in a creative way

whether that was revenue share I didn't have like I had something to work with right there's a great quote in that film the descendants the one with george cluny that's like give your kids enough to do something but not enough to do nothing yeah the same philosophy with that's the same philosophy with building businesses. Okay. And when I was starting Crown Affair, I had like a fantasy that maybe I could bootstrap, but spoiler alert, I didn't have like a random pot of money sitting anywhere. Like I needed to raise capital in order to actually start the business.

But I obviously had the learnings of like you can't actually be everything to everyone. And it's probably not a good idea to raise over $100 million because it actually creates inefficiencies when you have too much money. And in the book tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow, I don't know if you've read it. No. Oh, it's such a good book. Okay, we're going to put this in the show now. Yeah, it's amazing.

It's, I won't get into it, but we did it for a little internal Crown Affair book club, and there's a line in there that says, limitations can be style if you make them so. Love that. And I love that because I think that, like, it's the same. By the way, it's the same with physical style. Yeah. This is kind of hilarious, but everyone compliments me on this sweater, and it's literally from Costco. I love it.

I was about it's like, where's it from? But I'm wearing like Kate pants right now. And I know this is like a random example, but I think sometimes having limitations. can be good, but I also don't know how to do something with nothing. So when it came to fundraising, my strategy with Crown Affair has always been raised as you go. So I did $2 million for my seed. And then we did a, once we got Sephora contract, we did $3 million because inventory, visual merchandising, field teams, team, all that. And then once we had momentum at Sephora, we raised a series

A of $5 million. So it sounds like a lot of money when you're like, oh, I've raised like over $15 million dollars but like looking at that across five years and where the company is now it's like and you know it's like nothing but also like to give you your flowers do you know how hard it is when you raised in 2022 i was doing some research you did your series a in 2022 raising five million dollars as a female solo founder in 2022 post the 2021 like unicorn just like high high of the market was so hard to do like to be able to say you've done that plus a nine million dollars series B, you're really good at asking for money. What is the secret to asking men for money for your female hair care business? You don't ask for money. You ask for advice. That's my favorite

saying. You ask for advice, get money. If you ask for money, you get advice. If you ask for advice, you get money. Yes. That's essential. Also, to your question earlier, because it's kind of tied, like, how do you know what to spend money on? Yeah. I think that the reason that people, yes, we vi, and they get the vision and the product's amazing. They obviously having great product is key. But I also have investors who don't have hair. So one of my letters literally is bald. So the truth is, like, I was in the trenches for 10 years.

Granted, the playbook has changed exponentially. But they trust that I know how and when to spend money. And we do it in the most efficient way possible. And the reality is like building a prestige hair care brand, like hiring the talent we do, the photographers, the components that we have, like, this is not cheap. You know, like, I'm not selling a cheap brand. Like, when people order Crown Affair or get it at Sephora, I want them to be like, whoa. This is like a luxury experience.

Yeah. Like, our combs are handmade in Italy. We're not making, you know what I mean? Yeah. I don't want to disappoint anyone. There's so much random stuff in the world. Yeah. So that's not a cheap endeavor.

And for me, it has always been about philosophical alignment with my investors. That's like, this is the type of brand we're building. And if you want to invest in a brand that's like entirely subscription-based, selling you something for sub-20 dollars. Those are great businesses too. For sure. Different different things. Different things. Yeah. Do you feel like investors were ever worried that like just with where the economy is going, it's so unknown and people are like obviously, I don't know if you just saw this, but 50% of the spend right now in America is by like the top 1% of Americans? Like, did your investors ever worry around like where the economy is going that people are going to like kind of stop splurging on

certain things and pull back or is that just like, that's not who we're building for. We're building for X and that's still a huge market. Yeah, I feel like the conversation has always been more about like where we sit in the matrix. Yeah. When you're smaller, it's more of a Venn diagram. Yeah. Where you're like, here's the two kind of things. Yeah. And then as you grow, it's more of a matrix, right? And if that matrix is like mass and luxury, clean, not clean, Crown Affair is always sat, like on the clean side of where Orbe and Carostas and Christopharben and all the luxury brands that I've always loved, but we're at the other side of the matrix. Yeah. And the other side of that, like the top side of the matrix,

I should say, the other side of the matrix is like more of the mastige brands, more of the like Gen Z brands. And that's not to say we don't have amazing customers who are 16. We also have customers that are 70 and 80 years old. So yeah, I've always wanted to build a brand that could reach so many different types of people. It wasn't just about, you know, it wasn't trendy or it's like really building a legacy brand. So that's been more of the conversation, more than like the macro economic climate. Yeah. But it's an interesting topic right now.

And I think the reality is it does work twofold. I mean, there's a reason that there's like makeup and beauty always does well. Yeah. Recession proof. Recession proof. You know, I mean, I can't buy a house. So I'm going to buy a nice hairbrush. Like, for sure.

I joke, but like it's real right now. So it's like how do you welcome these little luxuries into your life to make everything better? So I think that's probably specific to beauty. Yeah. But, you know, I've always been making for a customer for me. I was shopping and investing in hair care. It's someone who understands that like the quality and the experience.

It's definitely not for everyone and that's okay. For sure. So with Hotsmart Rich, we really like people to walk away with like if they're building a brand, they're listening to this. They're like, I learned this from Diana. Like obviously we're going to ask for advice.

But when you're thinking around negotiating and I think for a lot of women that are listening that are just like, it's hard being a woman going up against a lot of male investors or a lot of like male people they're pitching to, what is like one of the things that you learned around behavior when you're asking for money that they can also mirror. Yeah, I mean, they're lucky to invest in you. I love that. That's like the number one thing. But you're doing them a favor. It's a mindset shift. You are doing them a favor. Yeah. If you are creating something right now, you are going to put your your soul into this,

especially in this day and age. Like when I started Crown Affair five years ago, I never spoke to camera. What? Yeah, I joke that I'm like reverse pipeline now because it's like a lot of influencers start companies. Right. But I always thought I'd do this or like an interview, but I was not really an external facing founder in like an influencer type way. So I don't know. I forget my train of thought right now. But like, oh, this is it. It's like, I had no idea I'd I'd be doing this. This is a lot of work. Yeah. Like it's a lot of work. So if you're starting a company, you're putting your blood, sweat, and tears into it. You're taking the time to do this stuff. Like, they're lucky to just put money. For sure. You were doing them a favor. I always say like

you're not asking for money. You're giving people an opportunity to invest. And I do think it's like what the words you speak is actually what will happen. And it will manifest either positively or negatively. So if you speak to yourself in a way where you're like, I'm giving you an opportunity, it's hard to say no to that. HsR girls are all about drinkable skin care in 2025. Yes, drinkable. This is not just another step in your skincare routine because the HsR girlies don't have time for that. This is the foundation for clear, bright, beautiful radiance.

And it tastes amazing. The radiant skin care duo from Peak combines the power of two standout products that work synergistically to protect, nourish, and transform your skin. Yes, you are going to be drinking sun goddess matcha for clear skin because it is packed with eG-cg antioxidants that help firm, brighten, and clarify your skin, all while giving you that calm, sustained energy you need to keep it moving to meet your goals. Next, the BT fountain electrolytes. you just add this to your water to hydrate your body at a cellular level, reduce redness, and smooth out those fine lines. For a limited time, Peak is offering 20% off the Radiant Skin Duo, plus a free starter kit, which includes a rechargeable frothar and glass beaker. When you shop with this exclusive link, peaklife.com slash HSR 20 for 20% off. That is, P-I-Q-E-Life.com slash HSR-20 for 20% off.

Let's be honest, founders, returns are a nightmare for business. If you're scaling a Shopify brand, you already know the costs I'm talking about. Sky high refund rates, constant return fraud, and rising shipping costs that eat into your margins. And that's where Freight comes in. Freight is a returns platform built exclusively for Shopify brands, already trusted by brands like Carraway and Monos to flip returns from a cost center into a growth lever. They're not just reducing returns. They're redesigning them completely. With instant and one-click exchanges that increase LTV, AI-powered fraud detection that screens worn items before they ship, and peer-to-peer returns that eliminate unnecessary shipping trips, freight's making returns feel

profitable. One brand cut refunds by 21%, saving $900,000. And the brands using freight retain more cash and convert more customers, period. So if you're ready to turn your returns into revenue, head to Freight.com and tell them Hot Smart Rich sent you for an exclusive offer and white glove service. That's F-R-A-T-E.com and tell them Hot Smart Rich sent you. Yes. But I love your openness talking about money. I read your, I don't know if it was like a report, but I read an article about like how you guys were even going to finish last year with 20 million in revenue, hopefully a profitable year. What about your personal relationship with money. How did you grow up thinking about money? Like, how do you think about money now

as a founder? How has that relationship changed since you started Crown Affair? Yeah, I mean, first of all, it's been such a journey and something I talk about in therapy a lot. I did not grow up with, I mean, my dad grew up in poverty. My parents did not have any money. Neither my parents went to college. My dad is a self-made entrepreneur. Amazing. What a good role model. Amazing role model. He's very much my North Star. And my mom and him always invested in our education. So from a young age, I went to really great schools. My parents supported me and paid for NYU, which is like the greatest blessing of all time. Like, you know, again, like give your kids enough to do something, not enough to do nothing. I definitely, I don't know how kids today do it. Like I was not, I did not have the funds,

right? To like show off and spend in this way. I've always had to stretch everything. I love vintage shopping. I love thrift shopping. You know, I'm in my 30s now. I have more disposable income. Yeah. The 30s are your best generation. Just wait. If you're in your 20s and listening to this and like you feel like you're not enough because of money, like that's a huge part of all of our journeys, you know?

Yeah. It's the one that I've been on. I will say I've always had an abundant mindset. Same. It's just and probably from my father. Like it's just the money will come. Yeah. Caviot.

I've been with my husband for 12 years now. We've been married for four years. He is a financial advisor at UBS and he is a Virgo. and he is a Virgo. And he is like, to the cent where every dollar goes. And I am like, oh, I'm like, what can a cause? Banana's $10? Like, I'm not a rest of development joke.

I'm just a little not grounded. So he keeps me like making sure everything is good. And then Elaine, who's my new CEO, is the same as him. Okay. So I'm surrounded by people who are like, no, Diana. Yeah. Don't spend. And Elaine has been a ninja with this stuff.

Okay. I was going to say this to the very end. But you just made a huge announcement with Elaine. Oh, yes. So it is very rare. I'm going to say this in the most shocking way. Yeah. You just fired yourself as the CEO of Crown Affair.

She did. I bet you. Congratulations. Do you know how many founders I wish would fire themselves? And I say it that way because, like, you actually did Crown Affair the biggest service by, like, doing what you can do best and bringing in Elaine. But let's talk about this because this is huge. What happened?

A lot of therapy. Okay. Spill the tea. And probably part of that 80% that I learned from other founders. I think the biggest thing as a founder is like you have to be self-aware and get out of your own way. So, yes, I started the company. I'm the founder and chief brand officer now. That's my like official internal title.

How do you feel with the title? I mean, I'm so happy. What I've been doing is the truth. You know, the first three years of the business, I was the CEO. in the sense that I was on every single email. I'm not a superhero at finance, but I was in every single cell, every single meeting,

fundraised, every single dollar by myself. And it was really, I mean, this series B, Elaine did with me. Okay. That was actually going to be one of my questions because a friend of mine is going through that right now where she is planning on doing the fundraise as CEO and then firing herself essentially.

And her board is saying you can't do that because you can't let go of yourself after you're complete. So you did it together. We did it together. Okay. So it was, and she had supported on other fundraisers, but it was very ad hoc. Okay. Okay.

My thing is like, Elaine is super busy. She's extraordinarily competent, has amazing capacity. So like, I'm not going to bother her until something is real. Okay. So like I would do all the investor meetings, kind of take it to the next level. The second that we needed to put stuff in a data room, Elaine's in and in the mix. This series B fundraise, she was in end to end because it starts to get really, it's real with the series B. Yeah.

Not that it's not real in C'd or A, but, like, like you're still very much building on the vision and the potential of profitability. Once you're like in a retail, like the numbers are it. Yeah. So she was a huge part of that. I think for me, I just, the truth is, is like, if I were to look at my KPIs, like, I should not be measured as the CEO. What do you mean by that?

Meaning like I'm not running the day to day of the business in that sense. My core competencies now are external facing, brand vision, product development, leading the team. Right. But not managing the team. It's so funny. I feel like I'm sitting across from myself because I did kind of what you're doing, but like way earlier. Like my sister was the former CFO of Missouri and built like a massive business. I am not an operations person. And I knew from the beginning I'm the best thing that will ever happen to this business and I'm the worst. Like I need to get out of the way. I am a horrible manager of people. Like I'm an amazing leader, but I am a horrible manager. I just don't have the patience. It's not my skill set. I need to be out like raising money, investing, like meeting people, doing content, like all the things. that make me great. But I think so many people feel this pressure of like that takes away from everything I've done. You talked about going to therapy and what you had to go through to get to this

decision. Like walk us through the first moment you had in your brain where you were like, maybe I'm not going to be the CEO of Crown Affair anymore. Yeah. It was first of all, amazingly self-aware of you. It's like realizing that you are the roadblock, that's the truth, right? That's the thing. It's like things can't move so quick when you are holding on to them so tightly. It was about two years ago that I realized at some point, I was actually speaking, I think I was talking to Jen Atkin. And we were talking about her then CEO, Colin. Her now CEO is a Hannah who is incredible and I know as well. And we were just kind of talking about like that point when like the business becomes bigger than you and you need someone to make decisions. And like

that person that you bring in, whether you hire them, so there's like a hired gun. Yeah. Or you can promote and elevate someone internally, which is what I did in this case. Elaine's been with me for five and a half years. And you just reached a point where you're like, I know I need to do this. I got to start exploring the options. It was in November of last year that we internally made the announcement. But like probably like spring of last year, it was about a year ago that we started to make the transition.

Elaine and I hired a coach. Okay. To go through the transition with you? Yeah. It wasn't official then. It was just like we knew we needed support to take the business to the next level. Okay. And it's funny because Elaine and I are obviously women.

We're both like conflict avoid it, won't everything good? There's no issues. It's not like we're screaming or fighting at each other, but you really need to get like, I joke that it's like couples therapy, but like I meet with my coach every week. She meets with her the other week alone. And then we come together to meet as a group once a month. And it's like an hour and a half session of just like, here's everything. And the coach is amazing.

They teach you all these tools to like communicate better, holds peace for the other person, see what the other person is saying. And I think so many people don't make the time. or invest in that. And it has single-handedly transformed the business. Yeah. So, yeah, and then in November, we were like, it's time. I spoke with my board.

It's me and one other woman who's on my board at the time. And we're like, do we hire someone? But, you know, at all these businesses, you bring in all these big hired guns and they don't actually jive with the team and kind of ruins the culture. And I really believe from the bottom of my heart that Elaine is the person to take Crown Affair to 30 and 50 and onwards, you know. It's so funny you say that because one of the biggest,

pitfalls I think that we had at my former direct to consumer darling as we hired like my first boss was the former president of Tesla North America. My second boss was the CMO of Burton Snowboards and they were so not used to executing because they had led like 400 person teams and they were like looking at me like I'm creating the deck and I was like yeah like I'll help you but like there's 10 of us on the team you have to do it you know and so I think for you to promote internally is such a beautiful thing especially with where the business is at. What about Elaine do you feel like makes her fit for CEO versus like your skill set and qualifications. I mean, she's just like, we, we always joke that like we complete and make one person. I love that. Like I'm so right brain

and I'm capable of doing the left brain stuff, but it's not where I naturally thrive. She's so left brain. Like she prior to joining me at Crown Affair, she worked for Larry Allison and was his head of operations. Larry Ellison obviously started Oracle. Yeah. But he had a wellness kind of vision that he was building. It's called Sensei. It's like a wellness retreat. It's amazing what she did. She built out everything there. Before that, she worked with Lorraine Pal Jobs, Steve Jobs's ex-wife, building out her nonprofit. She's like a systems person, but she also like interned at Chanel in college. Right. So I joke that like Aline is like my left brain spreadsheet thinker who like gets the vibe. Love it. So yeah. So she she's also like deeply invested in people. Yeah. I'm not a good manager.

I'm a great independent. Why do you say that? Oh, I'm like a great mentor and not a good manager. No, I'm too Like I want people to thrive and grow and win. I'm an amazing mentor, but managing, I think most people aren't very good managers. I'm being honest with you. I think there's very few people who are. Yeah. I'm not one of them. She is.

So now you are doing the opposite of what a lot of people are doing to build brands, which is they become a creator and then they become a founder. And you have essentially become a founder, got your company to a series B. So you've raised how much money? We've raised, I've seen the final numbers around. It's sub-20 million. Between 20 million, let's just say. Yeah.

And now you fired yourself to become basically a creator almost in a way. Walk us through like that journey of now stepping into being front of the camera, creating content and what that like, I guess, switching your brain is like. Yeah. I mean, it's so new for me. 30 to 40, like 30% of my time is still very like product focus, which I love and is my favorite part.

Yeah. It's so much fun like doing the product development, the research, sitting with our chemists. Like I love that. But the other part of my time is external facing. So that could be like this week, why I'm here is Sephora is hosting this summit with masterclasses and the squad and doing a masterclass with Amy from Tower 28. So like that's really fun, right? That's not like me getting on TikTok necessarily, but it's me being external. So that I love doing.

I love doing this. Like I love doing podcasts. It has honestly been a new muscle making content. I've been doing it for like two years now since I just like started posting on TikTok. You know, it's not my core business. I have so much respect for people who are full-time content creators. It's so funny, like, because I, for the stigma of it when I first started, like, I was doing it because I essentially was cited by a celebrity that I was working for that didn't want me

to talk about, like, all of the work behind the scenes that I was doing on a deal. And I remember being like, I'm going to become the talent. Like, this is never going to be me again, where someone gets to, like, write my own destiny and tell me what I can and cannot talk about. But I think it took me, like, honestly, two years to even when people would be like, what are you doing now? Are you creating content only? Like, no. Like, even though I was investing and, like, doing all the things, I was still so embarrassed to say, like, I'm a creator. I'm creating content. And now it's so funny because it's like a form of currency that's almost more valuable

than money. And so it's so interesting to see, like, the hate that still gets put towards creators. Like, it's not a real job. Do you ever feel the sense of, like, loss of identity, having gone from this, like, CEO role to now being this, like, creator-focused chief brand. officer. I'm not a good creator yet in my book. You were amazing. No, well, I joke that Crown Affairs in Year 5, Diana Cohen's in year one. Love that. So like, and by the way, you're such a marketer. It's crazy. You have like a little thing for everything. I'm like, can I hire you for a second? I mean, like, by the way, this stuff takes time to me. I think like, right, I'm so grateful. I always say the best analogy. There's a show on Hulu called English teacher.

Okay. And the creator of the show is also the lead actor. And he's spent his whole life, like, building, you know, building to this point to be like on an amazing show. When the show launched, it like wasn't doing super, it just was like normal. It was on FX is what it was. My husband was like, Diana, let's watch it. He loves FX show. So I started watching it, fell in love with the show, could not find a single person to talk to about it. And I'm like, it's so strange that the show is so good and so well written. Yeah. No one's watching it. Fast forward six months later, the creator and writer of the show started doing this little dance on TikTok to like that. It was like to a song. And it blew up. It had nothing.

to do with the show. Interesting. It was just him dancing every day he would post. It became this meme. It blew up. His show English teacher becomes one of the most watched shows. Because of this meme that had nothing to do with the actual. He didn't get on TikTok being like, let me tell you about my show.

He just had fun. And I think that's the uncomfortable thing that I'm learning and working through right now is like, I'm so great at building brands and making products and storytelling. And I want to get on there and be like, let me guide you through this. But the truth is, is like, even the smart customers don't have attention spans anymore. So it's like finding what works. And I think that I'm sure that the creator of that show is very happy that he didn't just build his career on TikTok, even though that's where.

So for me, it's like how do I figure out how to do that and have fun with it and connect with people. And for me, it's about waking up every day reminding me, like the mission is to empower and elevate women and show people that they can do this and that they can build a life for themselves. Like no one handed this to me, you know? Like, it really is about show. showing up every day. And it's hard because like, it's really hard to translate what you're doing

to the internet. Oh my God. It's like not in my DNA at all. But like I want to figure out creative ways to do that. And substack, honestly, which I started in October. I love your substack. Thank you. I started in October. So it hasn't even been a year has been such a special space. I think I have like 6,000 subscribers. But like they are purists, you know? And like I want to know about the journey. So I'm figuring it out. As I said, I'm like in year one of Diana Cohen. But the goal is like not dissimilar from Crown Affair. But the truth is, is like, I would love to do Crown Affair 100% of my time. But like, I've hired people who are better than me.

Yeah. So that is why I let go. It's not that I don't want to do it. My dream is to do Crown Affair, like forever. Like I go to Sephora Brand Summits and I see Carissa, the founder of Hourglass. Like, Our Glass is a 20-year-old brand. It got bought by Unilever in the 2010s. But like, she's still there.

She's still there. I'm having lunch with her. And I'm like, I want to be you. Yeah. So, yeah, like, I would love to keep. growing this brand and like honestly like I joke I'm like I want to find a home for it just so I can like get prioritized in like production lines yeah it's hard being a smaller brand and with supply chain and operations like but I I've built a brand that I want to use every day and because of that I want

to do it every day but I'm also excited to like explore ways that I can inspire people and the last thing I'll say on that is like the purest of what Diana Cohen is like Crown of her needs to grow beyond me Yeah. So that's why building out my own channels, which is scary and weird and I'm figuring it out is important because I can't share that this is what I'm wearing on a crown affair. For sure. You know? Which I feel like you can, though, in a way.

And that's what I love it. Like, do you know strawberry milk mob? I don't. Oh, my God. You have to follow her. Like, she, like, this is what I think is like so key for brands nowadays when they're thinking about their social media strategy. She started a bikini brand.

She is doing like numbers that are unheard of for drops by basically. having her personality be her business brands TikTok page. So like if it works for them, I don't think it would work for Crown Affair because Crown Affair has developed like brands or people. It's like such a lux persona. And it's like you transport yourself into like the romanticize of your life that you want to be.

And we're all busy women. I think that's what I love about beautiful brands. And I think when millennial pink was getting killed and like Gen Z was like these bright colors, I was like, oh my God, I'm like killing my, the romanticized version of what I want to be, even though that's not my day to day. life. But this girl has done such a good job building a brand around herself. And like she'll literally

do like what I'm wearing or like funny trends. And it's like her business account. Yeah. But I think one thing that you said that's super interesting is, and it was hard for me, is figuring out boundaries of content. Because when you're building your personal brand, you're like, do I share everything? Do I not share everything? And it was so interesting to me because when I was first starting to create content, it was really like business 101, finance 101. Like I was an angel investor from five years ago with like not a crazy founder exit was just like starting to put money away. And then the breakthrough moment for me happened when I called off my engagement two

years ago. And I like came online after hiding it for like five months. And I was like, I really don't know what to say other than yes, I live somewhere else. I'd no longer wear a ring. And I called off my engagement. And like that was the moment people were like. you are a real person. Like your life was so unattainable before.

It was so like something I could never strive for that it was like almost a disconnect from like a real person. And that was the moment I noticed that vulnerability like really transformed me to the next level. But it's also hard to like use your struggles or figure out like where your boundaries are with your life and like your personal life. Yeah. Where do you, have you thought about like what types of stuff are just going to be off the

table for you, like your relationship or your family or like where are you at with like those boundaries. Yeah, I think it's such a great point. And I, by the way, there are so many amazing creators that are like forward facing in their brands. For me, I always want Crown Affair to be bigger than me. Yeah. For example, yesterday when I landed in LA, I was like, I'm going to go to the row on Melrose and I bought a little, treated myself to a little something. And the saleswoman who has to be in her like early 50s, you know, she's like, oh, what are you in town for? I was like, oh, I'm here for this four thing. I have a brand. She goes, what's your ran? I said, I said, it's Crown Affair. She goes, you're kidding me.

She's like, I use your volumizing shampoo and conditioner. I use your drive. By the way, it's like a woman in her 50s who was worked at the row for 10 years. That's amazing. And I'm like, she has no idea who I am. You know what I mean? It's not like she found the brand through me, anything. Like Crown Affair exists as this beautiful thing.

This woman's in head to toe of the row. She uses Crown Affair. It was so nice to make that connection. Yeah. And it's great that I'm associated. But for me, it's like that's why I feel like, especially with our content, I'm referencing the Hermes and Lueyes of the world. Not, you know.

But for me, it's like Diana Cohn can be fun and playful. It's so tricky this question because, like, I'm such a millennial. Okay, what do you mean by that? I don't know how to, like, be vulnerable or anything online. I think I'm vulnerable around, like, leadership and, like, stepping down as CEO and, like, being honest, but it's just not in my nature to document everything. Yeah. I mentioned my husband.

I call him Bubbs. So people, like, I'll meet people and they, like, don't even know his name is Alex. They're like, how about how's Bubbs? I mean, Bubbs and I've been together for 12 years. Yeah. You know, we're just like partners in life. There's not like highs and lows. You know, he's on my Instagram and stuff.

But I wouldn't like make him do TikToks with me. Yeah. But it's not because it's like off the table. I think if he was into it, I'd be like, get on in babe. UBS wealth manager. Come over here. Yeah, but he's like 40 and like have no interest. Oh, my boyfriend is also 46.

So I like dating older. Yeah. Well, you guys are seven years apart. He's seven years apart. Yeah. We're 14. My parents are 17 years apart. Okay.

I love that. And my mom is six foot one and my dad's five foot five. stop right now. So like 20 years, basically 20 years of heart and like my mom clears my dad by like a good six inches. So I have no stigmas against tight or age for the record. But no, I think it's really tricky. And I think I'll learn, but I love you sharing that because I don't, it's all happening so fast, you know, like all these things, the highs and lows of building a team, fundraising, all these things. Like there have been low moments. Like it's not easy. No. But the part of me kind of loves that it can also feel like a magic trick.

Like part of what makes a magic trick so amazing is that you don't know how it works. Yeah. And it's like you have awe. To me it's like one of my favorite feelings in this world is a sense of awe. And sometimes you don't want to know all of it and how it works. And like the second that you know how the magic trick works and I take you through every little detail, it's like the magic is gone. Yeah.

That's not to say I won't be vulnerable in like real spaces. If I'm sitting at a dinner or even like this, like I'm totally honest. But I wouldn't say it's in my DNA to like I like talking to the camera like FaceTime what's going on because it's all happening so quickly. And I do a lot of journaling every day. I do a lot of self-reflection. So, like, I feel very complete in that without having to share. But who's to say? Yeah. It is such an interesting thing because I think for me, it's like what I'm navigating and, you know, being at the age that I'm at, it's like, I do want kids one day, but like I don't know when I will share that, you know, because it's like, it's such a private thing. I haven't gone through

it. You don't know what you don't know. But all I can say from my experience of like, the one piece of advice I have for you as you start this journey. And this was a really big roadblock for me until I got the podcast. Because for me, like, people don't know everything I'm doing behind the scenes, which is like investing like hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars a year into brands. It's very hard to democratize that on TikTok and like a minute long video. Whereas like the podcast is like an hour long format where I'm like, this is how much money I'm investing into deals.

And like this is like this. And I just open up my whole life. So the roadblock for me with TikTok was I felt like I had to be so smart. every single TikTok up until I started the podcast. Because I was like, people are going to judge me and think I'm not smart if I post about my hair care routine or like my eating routine or what I'm eating at Sweet Green. And what I realized is like people honestly want to follow people. They don't want to follow like regiments and like learning 101.

And I don't envy the creators that have grown so much faster than me, niching down because I'm like, you are stuck there now. So I think as you think about this next journey, it's like figuring out the five, 10 things that you want to talk about and then just like going deep into them versus feeling like I can't talk about that because it's not part of my brand like try it and see what happens. This honestly such amazing advice and I feel like one of the reasons my substack has done fine but like I got advice early on. Someone's like I don't know what to expect from you.

One day you're talking about a capsule wardrobe and styling and the next day you're talking about like five years of crown affair and then the next day you're talking about like what it means to be a millennial on TikTok and the next day you're talking about like what you bought for you. the holidays. And I'm like, yeah, but that's because it's reflective of me. Yeah. And I think one of the things about the content that I create and what I'm learning is like, I don't have an audience. There are people who engage. But like the other day, I met the most fabulous woman in an event who's in her early 60s, lives in San Francisco, is like a trustee at SF MoMA and was like,

Diane, I'm obsessed with your substack and I read it. And it's like, she's not commenting. She's not liking. Like there's definitely an audience that's quieter. You know, so I think, too, like something might not perform well, but it doesn't mean that people aren't consuming. It's not how many people you reach, but how many you move, which is hard to process. Okay, but I have a PSA to anybody that doesn't comment, like, subscribe, share. It's like things that you love that you don't tell them you love them will go away. And that is the saddest thing about relationships. That's amazing.

I honestly made a video about this one day because I remember I used to do this like five podcasts for Hotsmont Rich Girls every single Monday. 250,000 views every single time, like tons of comments, whatever. And then it started going down because I think people expected it of me. It was like an expectation that I'm going to listen to 25 podcasts a week, narrow them down, which ones I love, and then share them with you. And the comments stopped coming in, the engagement stopped. And I made a video and I was like, if you guys don't like this comment content anymore,

that's okay. But I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to keep putting myself into like this period of listening to this much, curating, whatever. And then the amount of comments that came back in that were like, wait, no, we love this. And I'm like, if you don't tell people you love them or that you love it, it will leave. It's so true, by the way. Someone the other day was like, all of the content that's work that is getting rewarded is like satisfying the algorithm. And it's like, that's not always the best content. And I think that's exactly it. And so true. And yes, I mean, this woman probably just like isn't on the internet as

much, but I agree with you. And it's important to like really support. I think that's what we're seeing right now. I was just talking to my head at PR about this, how everything is niching down. And when you think about like as a business, like where to spend money on influencers, on whatever it is, like when I look at the data, it's like the really like intentional audiences are doing well, you know, and it's surprising. We're in a weird, interesting time right now. We're like, we're very much at the mercy of the algorithm. So I think it needs to be a combination of like creating an architecture for yourself as a creative that you really want to go for the long run. Yeah.

You know, while also understanding that like, We've all been there. The watch party finally makes it out of the group chat and uh-oh, you volunteered to host. Suddenly you need snacks, drinks, dips, cups, and all the other party essentials. With Instacart, you can get all those groceries delivered in as fast as 60 minutes. No extra errands for you. One quick order for everyone. That way, everything shows up right on time, making hosting easy and like you had it planned all along. Download the Instacart app today and get no markups at select retailers. Fees and exclusions apply.

It's never too early to plan your summer story in Europe with WestJet, from rolling countryside to cobblestone streets. Begin your next chapter. Book your seat at westjet.com or call your travel agent. WestJet, where your story takes off. This is just a lot. It's a consistency journey. Yeah.

It's hard. It's so interesting because I just bought a pair of pants from Revolve and it's all the pants that I could wear when I got my surgery. And I posted one Instagram story with the pants. And I sold like, I'll just be super honest, I sold $11,000 worth of these pants from one, from one Instagram story. Oh my goodness. So my sister's like, we should talk to this brand about the fucking pants. Like you sold $11,000 with pants. And it's so funny because as like you could say a micro creator, it's like your rates sometimes don't equate to like the volume or like the quality that you can put out in terms of your output. And I think

that's what's so hard about the creator economy. And as a brand founder, I'm so interested in your opinion of like when you're getting a rate back from somebody and you're like, ah, that their audience is small, but they might convert. Like how do you wrestle with like where to spend money with creators that might not have the following, but have the engagement versus the ones that like are for mass or awareness, but don't necessarily convert. Right.

And by the way, I love that you use this example because so often it's the organic thing that actually converts. Yeah. And it's almost like, this is why I think of their relationships, you know? So like, let's just say I was the pants company right now. And I was like, okay, you sold $11,000 worth of pants. Great, let's do a campaign together. I'll pay you X.

Yeah. You might do that campaign and you get on there and you're like, guys, these pants are amazing, blah, blah, blah, blah. It might not. It's probably not going to move as much problem. Yeah. Because people don't want to be sold to. Yeah.

So I see it as like a holistic relationship of like it's not just this one and done thing. It's like, let's actually hire you. have you to make a video. Maybe we white list that video. Maybe we repurpose it. Maybe it's like the content is valuable in its own right, too, not just the conversion of it. You might work with people. I mean, I've worked not just at Crown Affair at other companies where you pay someone a big or it doesn't move the needle at all, but that's because you're measuring the conversion on the code or whatever it is. That person might have seen so and so wear it. Eight months later buys it. Yeah. So it so depends on your brand, your budget, what that is. But like I can say this.

if you have the right platforms, you can see how much product people are moving. Yeah. And I think it's like about finding a nice balance of things. Like you might work with a creator and they're going to move a lot of product that day. And the next time you work with them, it's just about the awareness. Yeah. I love that answer. And so that's how like we really like do our structure now too is it's like it's really not

based on one video. It's like, hey, we're going to do it in an organic way because I never promote something that I don't use myself or wouldn't use for my business. Like I just will not. Yeah. Have you done a campaign as a creator for something other than Crown Affair? Yeah. I mean, I have.

It's been really funny. I actually did something with The Real Real Real last year. Love that's so perfect for you. I was obsessed. I feel like the Real Real Real is always in my top five apps. Yeah. They reached out. I'd done some videos on it before organically.

Like I've done like real real graveyards on TikTok. I like share things that I found all the time like that green Chanel jacket that's in like every headshot. I like hunted down for on the Real Real real. So they reached out. I was honestly doing a closet clean out at the same time. Like hired a professional closet organizer. Oh my.

So it ended up being like a very organic. thing. And like, it's the same. I want to do things that I really believe in. I've done a handful of them in the past. And I think I'm very lucky that like this isn't my full time job. Yes. So like it's not paying my rent. So for me, it's all gravy. And I think like, by the way, for creators out there listening, if this is your full time job, like do the thing. Yeah. Go go build an architecture for yourself with goals and wake up every day. Like this is a business, you know. It is a business. Yeah. There's, I, you know, I'm not at that place yet where I'm like, my business is my business, you know. but it's, I love doing it and I've been so lucky to work with people.

I'm sure if I was proactive about it. But obviously I get sent a lot of things, which is so nice. And I'm happy to support and like have friends who have brands. So majority of what I'm doing is like organic. But yeah, I want, I buy a lot of my own stuff. Yeah. So like I post on my substack. Like I share links of things that I'm buying.

Yeah. And that feels like a more organic way to do it. Which by the way, like we are both so privileged to be able to say. I think that is why I have the engagement. the conversion I have because I've never had to post a product that like is to pay my rent. And like like I'm seriously, we're both like knocking. Like I feel so blessed to be able to say that. I think that's why like I'm so open about everything now because I'm like I want people to

have the tools to go and do it and like the luck that I had and the blessings that I had. But there are so many people that are in a position where they're like, I have to take the brand deal, which is why I'm so excited that there are funds out there now who are literally investing in creators to like get them to. to not have to do that so that they can just build an organic audience and eventually launch their own businesses. Like that to me is like the future. We are coming up for time.

I could talk to you forever. But I, okay, wait, I have one more topic that I have to dive into with you. Okay. Also, by the way, hold on, the thing I'm going to say about that, too, is the truth is, if I wanted to be a creator, I would have done it 10 years ago. And I would be paying my rent with it. But it's not, I have a totally different skill set. So anyone out there listening who's like, I've worked for a decade and don't feel

bad about not being able to pay your rent. we probably all would have been creators 10 years ago if we wanted to be. And also like if it was like what it is today, it's insane nowadays. Different world. Anyway. Um, okay, one more like one more category, because I just really need some advice. Yes. Let's do it. And then we're going to do some rapid fire to wrap up. You travel a lot and you're a founder. You're also a wife. Like you're a holistic multi-hyphenate creative entrepreneur. I travel like 150 days a year and I struggle. What tips do you have to work remotely while you're always on the go? I mean, it's so hard. I feel like putting an out of office on is something new that I'm doing.

Okay. And it's not like I'm away. It's just like I'm not at my computer right now. I'm doing things in the real world. It helps take the pressure off of being in the inbox, I think is key. And then honestly, just like doing the best you can to keep your routines, whether you journal, you work out, you go for a walk, whatever it is. Like keep your routines as best as possible because I, yeah, I also travel about the same amount. And those things keep me grounded.

Yeah. I love that because I struggle with it so. much just like staying on top of things is so hard. By the way, it's so hard right now. The amount of DMs and emails, text messages, notifications. I don't, I'm kind of drowning. If I'm being honest, I'm like, I don't know where to give my attention. And I think out of offices used to be perceived as being like shameful. Like you could never put, it's actually good. And my friend Melanie at Gia used to have like the most epic out of office at all time. I like screenshot it at once. And I was like, you're, she literally had an out of office that was like, I'm just not using email right

now. Have you ever emailed Lauren Bostic? No, I have it. You will get the most epic response. It is like, I am out of the office writing. Like, here's who to contact when you need me. And I love that because it just sets the expectation where it's like, here's who to go for brand deals, here's who to go for my podcast, here's who to go to for this. And for me, I like want to try that, but I'm still so scared of like, what if I need to answer this email? But I think you just learn to like fuck around and find out. It's surrendering and like protecting your time. Yeah. which we both need to do more. We need to do.

We're going to wrong each other. Okay. Rapid fire. Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Coffee to your cocktail for the rest of your life. You can only choose one. Coffee.

Okay, what's your order? Literally iced Americano black. Okay. People that die on the hill for a fucking black coffee. I'm like, babes. I mean, it's not dessert. I get this thing to work. Okay.

Movie TV show, music, or podcast the rest of your life. Wow. You just sort of dancing, so I'm going to go with music. No, I mean, music, because it's the most, it's the best. It's the best. But that's like, I don't want to make that decision out of it, but it's music. What is the festival in the desert called? Burning Man.

You're a Burning Man girlie. Five-time Burner. Are you going this year? Yeah, of course I've gone. When is it? It's at the end of August before Labor Day. Oh, okay. Who is your favorite comfort creator?

Oh, whoa. Pia Baranchini. Love. I don't know, but I love that. Yeah, Pia's my comfort creator. She's so good. I don't know why that took me so long. There's just so many creative.

out there. Honestly, if I thought about there, it would be a whole list. But she's just real, relatable, talking about what you said, like vulnerable, honest. I love watching her and her family and everything she's doing. Yeah, she's my comfort creator. Okay, love that. Favorite it's a for a brand that is not your own. These are hard. This is really hard too. Can we pick a category? I was going to let you choose your own fantasy, but let's do two then. Okay. Fragrance. Oh, let's not do do fragrance. Okay. Let's do makeup and skincare. Okay. I got to. I give this to my girl Gucci, Westmanitilliers. Okay.

I'd say, like, is probably... You're such millennial. Am I? Yes. I mean, there's so many good brands in makeup, though. I love so many. And then skincare, I'm really... I love Doe and Sophie Pavett.

D-I-E-U-X. They're both new to Sephora. A lot of the new ones are coming into Sephora. But there's so many good brands. I know there really is. Yeah. Are you guys a Sephora exclusive? Yes, in the sense of like bigger region.

But like our first retail partners are Violet Gray and Goop. And we work with like strategic, you know, more boutique retail. But yeah, Sephora is our big partnership. Anchor. Yeah. What is your favorite marketing campaign recently? Our finishing spray campaign was next level. Okay.

Our team shot that in New York. It's a hair spray. None of our style. All of our styling products don't have alcohol in them. Will it help me with my flyways? Yes. And will it make my hair greasy like this. No, it will not.

It is literally magic in a bottle. Did you bring me some? I mean, it might be in there. If not, we'll get you something. I'll buy it. The finishing spray and the finishing gel are incredible. But the finishing spray, what our campaign did or our team did was just like insane. It was like Thomas Crown Affair, sexy 90s.

Incredible. Love. Yeah. What is your personal mission statement? My personal mission statement is to do the thing, inspire people to do the things that make them feel most like themselves. You are such a good CEO because I know that you are not expecting me to ask question and you're like two seconds, I got it and it was impactful. Diana Cohen, thank you so much for coming on. You're amazing. I want to be friends. Let's be friends. Yes. Let's get hot,

part rich together. And thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom. I'm so excited about this new chapter for you. I think it's going to be incredible and I can't wait to watch your journey. So where can people find you? Diana Cohen on Instagram, Diana with two ends. TikTok, Diana.com. And then my substack is diana.com and then all of the Crown Affair things. And we will link everything in the show notes and maybe we can do a giveaway if you're down let's do it okay amazing thank you so much thank you for having me of course