Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - From Sibling Rivalry to Startup Success: How to Build a Successful Business with Family with Maggie Sellers & Katie Sellers

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

Ever wondered what it's like to work with your sister or how HSR runs as a business operation? In the second episode of Hot Smart Rich, you'll intimately meet Maggie's sister and co-founder, Katie Sellers, who joins for an unfiltered conversation. Together, they unpack the evolution of their sibling bond into their business partnership, from their early creative clashes to building a bold, bi-coastal media and investment platform. With candid stories about taking career risks, redefining traditional roles, and balancing creativity with execution, this episode dives deep into what it takes to grow a business, foster resilience, and work with family. As a bonus, they break down the business of Sabrina Carpenter, Celebrity Perfume Lines and more cultural moments shaping the last year of pop-culture.  ✨CONNECT WITH HER✨: INSTAGRAM: ⁠@maggiesellers ⁠ TIKTOK: ⁠@maggiesellers_ ⁠ YOUTUBE: ⁠@hotsmartrich ⁠ LINKEDIN: ⁠Maggie Sellers ⁠ ✨CONNECT WITH KATIE✨: INSTAGRAM: ⁠⁠@katiesellers_ ⁠⁠ TIKTOK: ⁠⁠@katiesellers_ ⁠⁠ YOUTUBE: ⁠⁠@hotsmartrich ⁠⁠ LINKEDIN: ⁠⁠Katie Sellers ⁠ ✨READ THE NEWSLETTER✨: ⁠HSR ICYMI ⁠ ✨SHOP HSR✨: ⁠HSR MERCH⁠ ⁠SHOP MY⁠ ⁠AMAZON⁠ ✨ ABOUT MAGGIE✨: Maggie Sellers is revolutionizing modern female empowerment, leading the charge as the Canadian-born, Los Angeles based multi-hyphenate creative entrepreneur and investor, unapologetically blazing new trails. The founder of Hot Smart Rich, a media and investment platform, Maggie is on a mission to help women embrace their hottest, smartest, richest selves. Known for shaping iconic consumer brands and global superstars, she seamlessly blends the worlds of entertainment, branding, and venture capital, and was the first to carve out a space where influence and investment collide. Maggie’s meteoric rise began on TikTok, where her candid, sharp-witted content struck a chord with over 180,000 ambitious Gen-Z and millennial women, rapidly expanding her influence as the blueprint for the future of influence. But Maggie’s vision extends beyond content. Hot Smart Rich is reshaping how modern power players connect and collaborate while her investment arm, HSR Ventures, backs some of the fastest growing consumer brands like Allara Health, De Soi, Mixlab with equity stakes in 18+ brands across the consumer ecosystem. Maggie’s influence goes far beyond the brands she builds and invests in. Forget outdated notions of female empowerment, she’s redefining what it means to be an empowered woman in today’s world. Maggie Sellers is setting a new standard—unapologetic and impossible to ignore. This episode is produced by HSR Media, a d... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Okay, ready? One, two, three. One, two, three. Okay. Rolling. Rolling.

Katie Sellers, are you ready to get hot, smart rich? I sure am. Are you nervous? A little bit. Is this your first podcast? No, I've done lots of other podcasts, but none on film. Like, look at the way I'm sitting right. I was actually going to start this out by being like, this is the business visually.

So like you're super put together. I'm a little bit more not. Yeah. Tell me about your outfit today. Why did you wear this? Well, burgundy is my favorite color. And the color of our business. And red is the color of our business.

It's also the color of the past year or the season. Okay. Which we'll get into later. I get so many compliments on these jeans when I wear them. Okay. and I just thought it was cute. But I think like the meaning of it is like when you saw what I was wearing, you said to me, why are you wearing that?

What are you going to wear? What are you wearing? And even down to the shoes, I was like, why are you not going to put on normal shoes? Yeah. I think again, it goes back to like do what you're best at and what we were just talking about is how different it feels when you have a microphone on versus like we've been saying to each other for the past 24 hours since you got here. Like save it for the podcast.

Save it for the podcast. for the podcast. Because things are just so much better when it's natural. And that's why I asked you to come on, which this is technically going to be, I think, episode two. Yeah. But we're filming it before episode one. Yeah.

Because there's nobody. Just to get the hebi jibis out. Yeah. There's nobody else in the world that I feel more myself around. And I feel like the one thing that's so hard is everybody tells me you're so much better in person. When I meet you, I'm like, oh my God, I want to be a part of that. I still struggle to translate. that onto the video side of things.

Yeah. So I'm hoping that today you can help just relax me and we can just get into it. Just bring out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. For sure. So where I wanted to start was obviously our history of working together. And maybe, actually, I think we need to do an intro. Let's do a little bit of a backup. Why don't you just tell the listeners, hopefully there's some new people. Who are you? Okay. My name is Catherine. No. No, I'm Katie. I'm Maggie's. Oh my God. Your voice just did the change. Did it?

Yes. Just be natural. It's so hard to be natural. I'm Katie. I had to do media training at Missouri, and it was so hard for me. Like, I still can't do it. Okay. I'm Katie.

I'm Maggie's sister and business partner slash co-founder of HSR. And I am based in Toronto. Yeah. And you're in L.A., so we're a bi-coastal duo. Yeah. Which is honestly, like, the best of times, the worst of times, you know? Like it works in our favor a lot, but it also then, the opportunities to sit down. What'd you do before?

And my background, I always explained to people on the phone. Like, you and I are very, have a lot of similar experience, but different at the same time. So I don't know what side of the brain is the right and the left, but if you're the left, I'm the right. Okay. And we cross over. But I would also say, I would argue that you're kind of both, actually. I am kind of both. But like in our normal roles, we have clearly like, I'm the.

right, you're the left. And we converge. Yeah. But okay, so my background is similar to you. I went to business school. But then instead of being creative, I went into accounting at a big four. I worked at Ernst & Young for almost six years, which is a long time. Three years in Toronto, three years in San Francisco, working in large publicly traded technology

clients. But when I lived in SF, I really caught the startup bug. So when I move back to Toronto, I am creative. I love consumer. I love products. I love interior design, clothes. So I was like, I'm never going to be happy learning about mining and banking in Toronto. So I wanted to find a business where I could work in consumer and be creative.

And so I literally just like, wait, one second, I have to interject. You didn't just want to be in startups. You decided to go into crypto before like anybody was in crypto. and I remember when you did that, I was like, why is she going into a currency that doesn't exist? So I went on to Crunch Base and I literally like listed businesses that were headquartered in Toronto. Which there weren't very many cool businesses back in the day. No. So I literally wrote a list of businesses and Missouri was one of the only consumer brands at the time.

Like looking back at that time, I think there was only two consumer brands I would have wanted to work for back in the day, which was like Missouri. and nude sticks. Nud sticks. Yeah, based in Toronto. It still was even like nude sticks was super, super early. They hadn't probably raised money. So I might have not even been aware of them at the time. Yeah.

And then there's brands like Shopify. But anyway, Missouri was the top of the list. They weren't hiring. So you're right. I did end up working in crypto in like 2018. I back in the day put $500 into Bitcoin. Do you still have it? Yeah.

How much is that worth? It's not worth as much as you would think. It's like it's five figures, but it's not from $500. Yeah. Okay, Slay. Yeah. Which in the last couple of weeks, it's actually, I just keep going in and checking. Wait, that's amazing.

I can't even remember the logins to any of my accounts to get my crypto. Well, you should find them. Yeah. Okay. Keep going. Which was a very interesting experience, but also a little bit, you know, sketchy. Sketchy. early days of a new type of currency and business, no regulation.

And then Missouri literally posted a job for Director of Finance in 2019 while they were raising their series B from NEA. And it was like a five-month process, but I eventually got the job. Wait, and we need to tell a little backstory on how we actually first started working with jury. So we had a blog. Katie and I have tried a million different businesses together. we've done gift wrapping, we've done

calligraphy. Colligraphy. We've done so many things. At sea, like making cards. Yeah. And it never worked out because we always ended up fighting. But we did start a blog called Pepper and Paper back in the day. And it kind of has the undertones of what HSR has turned into, which is really interesting.

And our first ever brand deal was with Missouri. It was. And I remember going to their store opening in 2018 on Dundas and vividly. And Nora and Ala, who I worked with for a long time at Missouri, were standing at the door greeting people. And yeah, we got this deal to like, and I still have that. Promote the store. That stay gold t-shirt to come to the store opening.

And then it was full circle. I ended up leading their finance team for three years. Okay. And be, don't be humble. Tell a little bit about how big the company was or how many people you even managed by the time you left. So I joined in May of 2019. and they just raised series B.

So it was still sub nine figure. It was like low eight figures in revenue. And by the time I left, we were, you know, approaching that half a billion dollars in revenue. We'd raise series C and D had reached a unicorn, had reached a unicorn valuation in 2021. And I was on the executive team

and managed a group of 25 people on the final. finance team. You know what's so interesting when you repeat your story back to us is like we grew up in such a risk adverse household. So risk adverse. So risk adverse. I can't even tell you. But I do remember one thing that dad would say to us when we were little, which was like,

if you want to have, because here's a thing, we did grow up extremely privileged in a lot of different ways. But we always, like I had my first job at 12. Yeah. Actually, I had my first. The payroll. That's what our dad would say. Always say to us.

We never had an option to move back home after we were done in college. He was like, you're out on your own. Yeah. And so I remember there was a few things dad said when we grew up. He was like, if you want to be financially okay, have a salary for the rest of your life. If you want to be fucking wealthy, become an entrepreneur. Yeah. Yet he was so risk adverse that like the fact that I just literally bet on myself when it was like in the middle of COVID, I had no other options.

And then you were in crypto. You left an amazing job at Missouri to come and join me when it was still so early. Yeah. so interesting to me because those are such big risks that like, why do you feel like we took them? Well, actually, I don't think that, and we've talked about this, so hopefully you don't get mad for saying this, but I really did take the big risk first and foremost to start this, right? And then once there was legs and there was like opportunities and you were like, wait, you're getting deals with like Dell and you're getting speaking opportunities and you're changing people's lives,

then you took the risk to come. Yeah. But why do you feel like you left well-paying successful, like, high-tier job at Missouri to come and join me at what we're doing at Hartsmart Rich? Well, I feel like you kind of said it before about me. I am also multi-hyphenate in a lot of ways. Like I can draw a self-portrait of myself that actually looks like me. Exactly like you.

And I also can like figure out how to issue an S-1 for, you know, like your annual financial statements. Sorry, what's that? I'm just kidding. and I think that has a lot to do with it. Like you said, I am multi-hyphenate in a lot of different ways. And I think like even though I was in a great job at Missouri, I was running a finance team. I wasn't a C-O. I wasn't a CMO.

A CMO. And as much as there was creative conversations that I was a part of, I wasn't making decisions or really being creative in a lot of ways. And so I was finding the hamster wheel of. it's this month, it's this quarter, it's this year, it's time for taxes, it's time for this. I was like, I can't do this anymore. Yeah. For the rest of my life until I'm 65 and I retire. Like, it was not going to be stimulating enough for me, which is why I was like, I need to do something that's not just finance. Well, we should tell the story of what it was like when I asked

you to come over and like what it's been like working together. So do you remember what I said to make you convinced to come? Well, I don't maybe remember the exact words, but I remember I remember you were, I called you and it was May of 2020 or yeah, yeah, 2023. Yeah. And my son had just turned a year old. I was taking an 18 month, Matt Lee, which is crazy that in Canada you get 18, well, 12 months. 12, you can extend to 18.

Yeah. And you were like, you should come to New York with me because I founder made. I'm a panel. My intern who works with us from Columbia Business School is like coming and going to be part of it. And I was like, wow, this is so cool. And it was my opportunity in a mat leave world where like you're literally at home all day, every day with a baby to experience something new.

And for me, that was like the first opportunity to see what you had really started to build. And that for me was like the being of, okay, there's actually like legs to this. And it's so interesting because I think I grew up so much in the first year. I was kind of like, I mean, I wouldn't even say I've done it officially for a year before that. but I used to be so attached to things like titles and like my ego drove so many of my decisions and I knew that I was out of place and I say this to you all the time. I am the best thing that will ever happen to this business and I'm also the worst. Yeah.

And there was a growing point where I was just like, I know that if I don't bring on help, like this won't work. And I don't. That is what you said to me. I'm the best thing and I'm the worst thing. But I'm at a point where like I can't do more than I'm doing right now without having someone else. Well, and I think that's what works so well about you and I working together is like, one, the first day that you, didn't even really start, but you were like in New York with me. I'm

like, here are all the bank account passwords. Like, here's like every bill that needs to get paid. Like, here's this, here's that. But I think it's also been this like very fluid relationship where it's like every single day is new. We're kind of learning together. But I know one of my strengths is like I am an, I'm an amazing leader. I'm an amazing charismatic leader. I have vision. You're very visionary. Very visionary. Very visionary. Yeah. Execution is like, it's just not in my DNA.

And I can do it. You can do it. I've done amazing things in my career only possible because I could execute. Yeah. But in terms of growing a big business, like I just realized I am never going to be able to manage even five people. Yeah. I don't have the patience.

I don't have the skill set. And quite frankly, it's not what I'm good at. Yeah. You are amazing at people management. Yeah. So the way that we've even structured the business is so unique where it's like you kind of technically report to me. Yeah.

Even though I don't report to anyone. No, even though I was going to say one of the things that's so interesting is like, not only did I give you the bank accounts the first day, but I was like, you should have a title of co-founder. Yeah. And you should have 49% of the business. I just want 51. Yeah.

And now everybody ladders up to you, which works really well. Which I do think, though, is quite common in, let's talk about like in a creator-led business, right? That is the way it shakes out a lot of the time. the creator is the person who is this visionary. I have all of these ideas. And to your point, you don't even want to be spending your time managing a team of five people because it's not what brings you joy or you're passionate about. And I think this is what I wanted to say, actually. The number of times I get asked by people when I, I always introduce myself,

hi, I'm Katie. I'm Maggie's co-founder. I also happen to be her sister. We have the same last name. I just like to get it out of the way. Same. Because there are some people who are like months later, like at the nude sticks campaign shoot they're like so how long have you been working with maggie and i was like about 30 years and they were like what i was like yeah she's my sister so even though we kind of look alike talk similarly have the same last name some people still just don't get it and the number of people who are like oh my god like what's it like working with your sibling what is it like working with your sibling behind my back i only ever have the best things to say and it's similar to another like co-founder sibling duo that we know my boyfriends yeah well I didn't know what you wanted to say just go um like he says it's the best of times it's the worst of times and it truly in this business with the two of us would not work with you having any other business partner or with me because we live on two different coast there's a very big time change and we call each other it's like six o'clock in the morning your time or for me it's nine o'clock at

night, it's the weekend. It just wouldn't work if you're not fam another. Yeah. And then because you're so creative and it's not a lot of it is your life. And there's things that like are, I don't even feel like I am ready to deal with like on a personal level nor share, but I know that I'm going to have to. And I think that's one of the biggest things that's like one, I'm so happy that we created this business in like the mission just so everyone knows is like HSR is to like empower women to know and build their worth. And it started off being very much like business 101. And then I was like, fuck, I don't just talk about business all the time. Like I am not a robot and I was really struggling with this dichotomy of like, I have all of these other passions and things that like I want

to talk about. And I'm sorry, but like I don't care if I don't grow as quickly. I have to be able to talk about different things. Otherwise, like I will burn out. Yeah. And it like, almost two years later, like, I have not burned out. I never do because there's different seasons of my life. There's season. There are seasons that are like... I will say you, you've learned how to take pauses, though. Yeah. So you don't burn out. And we have gone through phases over the last year where you're like, I'm not in much

in as much of a creative mood. And we've learned how to manage that for you as the creative. Which I don't think I could do. And this is like having spent time in talent management, it's like your manager is kind of a babysitter. Right. Like you are dealing with like the highest fires and like the smallest fires. Yeah. And I think for me,

don't I never really wanted to sign with a traditional management company because what we do in my opinion is so much like like I have such a bigger kind of vision for where I see HSR going. But I also feel like it's so highly personal and like there's so much like finances that get brought into it that it could never have this whole venture arm also right. It's not just like oh Maggie makes content on TikTok you know it's like we have over seven figures invested in consumer brands and we raise money in SPVs, we do investor reporting, we have updates from our portfolio companies. We have to help portfolio companies. And that's also a whole other layer of like me coming in and your experience where like I have

later stage consumer experience and know what the expectation of these businesses are going to be that we're helping. And they're just honestly like, it was just so serendipitous that it all came together with like the experience that I had had and built, what you had. And the reason it didn't work for us to work together before, even with Pepper and Piper, like transparently is because we both were very early in our careers. We hadn't had the experience of building on our own and developing different skill sets and knowing what our swim lane is.

And now that's really defined. And you are the creative that comes up with the vision. And I can help execute on that, which is what I like. Yeah. Where we struggled before was like two creatives, wanting to put their own idea of their DNA of what the creative was going to look like or the Instagram or the blog or the product, whatever. And like that didn't work. Yeah. No, that didn't work. And I think that's like something that I have figured out later on is it's like you really need to

get clear on what your role is going to be. And for me, it's even hard to say out loud. Like, I'm not a great people manager because as a great charismatic leader, I want to be able to be a good manager. I'm just not. Yeah. And so it's like being able to. I think you are. But yeah, I honestly don't think that I am though when I don't enjoy it at all. I like get very annoyed very easily because you and I both say this all the time, we can just do things better than most people, which controversial. I stand bad, but I agree. I stand behind that.

Like you are the only person that I've worked with that I'm like, if it can't be me, it should be Katie. Yeah. There's nobody else like that I would ever trust that for. Yeah. But I do think it's really interesting because I remember when I first started dating my boyfriend. he had been working with his brother for like 17 years. Yeah.

And they have a very similar archetype of person. Yeah. And they've worked incredibly well for this period of time. But he said to me when we first started dating, he's like, don't you think your sister is going to get upset that like you're the one in the spotlight and you have the limelight and she's kind of behind the scenes? No. Like literally.

But that's what I said to him. And he was like, oh. And now once he's met me, he's like, got it. Yeah. You know? But so do you, that doesn't mean that I can't be creative in my own ways though, but like I'm not going to be the one to be the person who's hosting my own podcast

or like posting on TikTok three times a day. I do it in spurts where I'm like, I need some creativity right now. I kind of like this trend. I'm going to post something. Yeah. And then I get my creative outlet in so many different ways where it's like the HSR holiday suite. I'm doing all the creative.

I'm doing the tablescape. And can I just say? Yeah. I empower you to do that. Like often in front of people, I say, I don't want people to think this is all me. Like, Katie, you're the best at table scapes, at flower arrangements. Like, that is not lays, the invitations. And it's weird because you're like, I don't, that's not my skill set, but you're the creative.

I'm the operator, but that's my creative. Which is where it goes back to like, I think we're such a unique duo and little fun fact about me. I'm ambidextrous. And I'm ambidextrous. really triggering story we'll talk about later, but I feel that I go really well between being whatever you said, like the left brain and the right brain and so do you. But it's taken this like magic dance for us to figure out when we lean in and when we don't because it we do fight. Yeah. And I think one of the things that I'm working. You get over it a lot faster than I do. I get over

things. I'm like a dude. Like we yeah, we get in a fight. I talk about it and I'm like moving on and you're sensitive Sally over there being like, you hurt my feelings. We've been that. We've been that. We've been that way since we were little kids also. Yeah. Yeah. I was always just extremely risky. Like I was always taking risks. I was always breaking bones.

I was always trying different things. I was always trying different things. I started my first business when I was seven years old, taking care of our neighbor's pets. And I was running to mom being like, Maggie's doing flips on the trampoline and I don't like it. Yeah. Like I was always just getting into trouble and like being curious.

And I think it's so interesting. I did this Berkman test the other day, which is around like, it's a coaching method. Yeah. And I scored 99 percentile in science. And I was like, sir, I think the results are incorrect. Like I was not good at science and math.

I was more of an English person. And he was like, no, it's actually really interesting. Science is more towards your curiosity. You're the most curious person I have met. He has done 4,000 Berkman tests. He said he's never met somebody like me. You know what I scored zero. She's one of a kind, everyone.

I scored 0% on administration. Not surprising. Which goes back to like, I don't want to look at statements. I don't want to be bogged down in details. And that's where I think you work really well with me. Yeah. And when we're doing even like case studies or business dives, we bring two totally different perspectives. Totally.

Which now that we've been working together for a year, like we do also meld together on different things. Yeah, we need to talk about some drama though. But when we first started working together. So I can recall the biggest fight that we probably got into was around tone of voice. I love how you knew that. Please describe your tone of voice in three words. And then I'll go. Direct.

Direct. Direct. Direct. Yes. I would describe your tone of voice previous to us, me having a talking with you, was Kurt, direct and short. Yeah. And that doesn't.

I was going to say short, yeah. That doesn't work. So we kept getting into these little tips because I talk very excited. Well, actually, wait. What are my three words that you? you would describe my tone of voice as excited, passionate, lengthy. Yes. So my, this is hilarious.

I am doing a bunch of book halls right now and I bought this book called Smart Brevity. And my boyfriend saw me and he's like, oh, damn it, that's one of your Christmas presents because you talk so, like, lengthy. It's so annoying. But so I'm reading this book, Smart Brevity, which is all about how to condense how you speak because you just waste so much time. with words. I could talk and I still have no idea what I said. Yeah. Um, but I do think that when we first started working together, you would speak to the HSR community from email in like a very direct

curt short tone and that didn't work for me. Which doesn't work. Yeah. Because ASR is like I said, bigger than me. It's a brand that we've built and birthed and it has a personality. Yeah. And it's excited and passionate and I'm trying to be not so lengthy. Yeah. But it was interesting because when I first gave you that feedback, how did you feel? Well, I think like where I'll back up and explain like where it sort of comes from for me of like the way I've developed in my career and why I speak like that in a lot of cases because I think like this also comes back to the convergence of like where we both are in our careers. I've worked up until like this past year in a corporate structured environment, right, where you took risks a lot earlier in your career and left

like from Salesforce, freshie dosist, and then you were off doing your own thing where things are just different, right? Dealing with different types of personalities. Talent, et cetera. I was never in a role or a job where I had to speak to people to make them feel a certain way.

You just had to speak to people. Wait, you had to speak to people. To get shit done. Yeah. And I grew up and worked in an environment where I was always the only woman at any table, any dinner, any conference room. at like whether it was Ernst & Young, even at Missouri at a lot of times.

I was the female leading the finance team. But if I was talking to the bank or an investor or other executives, like there were other men who were part of those conversations. And I from, I'm going to say a young age, like working, had to figure out how to speak and communicate to people in a way that was direct so that I didn't get stuck in the like, oh, you know, she's just a cute little girl who doesn't really know what to say and is being overly pleasant, et cetera.

And especially when it came down to managing people, the way that I've had to like evolve the way I speak and manage people is like the whole, you know, care personally challenged directly from radical candor is like I just had to almost like trick my brain into speaking that way so that I could literally just get through the day. Yeah. of all of the things that I had to do, managing 25 people, talking to investors, talking to the bank. And so I just was never in a role where I had to like, you know, think about the community aspect of making people feel good. Yeah. And that's been a big learning of like, you know,

sending you all that hot, smart, rich energy is like not the way I would speak over email. But now when it is to the community I do. Yeah. But again, I will say like there is an art and a science to learning how to work with people because like I do deal with executives at investment banks and at venture capital funds and I'm not sending them an email signing off sending you hot, smart, rich energy baby. No, obviously not. But like I think that again, working in a startup and like this is where I always have identified patterns and there's patterns of successful startup founders and it's like they know when to do certain things and when to turn it off and on. Yeah. And for me, I can be at like in this happen this summer. I'm at Wembley in the Queens box and I'm able to speak to

someone that like is super high up in society and in business. Yeah. And they walk away being like she was lovely, professional like. Yeah, yeah. Direct. And then I can go down to somebody that is graduating college and is looking for life advice. Their boyfriend is broke up with them. And they feel relatable to me. Yeah. And I think that is kind of one of my superpowers. And it was something that was obviously hard for us to work through. But I think we've gotten to a good point on it now. For sure. But it's also like something that you weren't even the first person who told me. Yeah. Like even working at Missouri, people are like, you know, you don't put any emojis in your messages. And I'm like, why do I need to? Yeah, you're scary. Okay, moving along. So we're still TBD on when this episode is going to come out because there's just a lot of moving parts. But I do think that there are some major themes in pop culture that I want to touch on and just get some hot takes on. Yeah. So regardless of this is like a little bit out, I still think it's relevant because this was like moments of the year. So Pantone just named that. Moka Moose is their pantone of the year

2024. What are your thoughts on that? I mean, I love a neutral. So that, you love a beige. I love a beige. Do you love a sad beige? I don't love a sad beige. I've moved on from sad beige. I think it needs to just be like,

I love a beige in the right context. Can I tell you something that I've thought that I've never said out loud about branding? What? I think I betrayed my millennial self for a minute when Gen Z started popping up everywhere. Like I loved Glossier branding. I love Missouri.

I aspire to be the millennial decorator. Yeah. And I was like, I'm usually really opinionated and set in my ways. And like I don't really like, what's the word I'm looking for? I don't really like change my mind on things based on what popular. You're very hard to like change your perspective. Especially based on like what's cool. I usually go against the green.

But when Gen Z was building brands and they were colorful and fun, I was like, I want to be colorful. and fun. But then I kind of look back at everything and I'm like, that's not me. Like, I like millennial pink. So I'm really happy that this year was mocha moose. I feel like I'm, I'm kind of over Brat Summer and the green. Yeah, I'm over it. Yeah. And I think, you know, who's done no better job at capitalizing it than this woman is Sabrina Carpenter. Yes. What are your thoughts on Sabrina Carpenter? I think she's someone who's taken the like the operative. She's been given and is riding the wave because I saw something on Instagram before we were filming this that was like

Talking about the ERAs tour and like everything that has happened in the context of the ERAs tour in a period of time And Sabrina Carpenter started as the very first opening act for Taylor Swift was nowhere close to where she is today and it before the ERAs tour ended She released a whole new album and became a headliner of her own sold out arena tour or maybe not a but state whatever not the one that Taylor Swift did but like Scotia Bank Arena arena tour and so she's someone who really was like took an opportunity and really ran with it but she's also not an overnight success like when we were doing all of our you know getting our event ready for the founders we took to the concert it's like she has nine studio albums well that's actually what I wanted to bring up today because she just released me espresso which is her new perfume flavor so I was doing some

research on it. This is not her first perfume launch. If you look back, no, you would have no idea. No. But I'm actually going to do a video on why celebrities launch perfumes before they launch their own line. It's the smartest thing a celebrity can do. Alex Earle, if you are watching this, like, do not launch anything but your own perfume first and foremost. There's why a few reasons. Like it's genderless. So it's like you can sell it to both audiences. It's one skew. So you don't have to develop an entire, if you're doing makeup and concealer and you don't have certain skin tones like you're canceled before you even start yeah it's usually a licensing deal so you will carry none of the risk from like an inventory perspective got it and it's really easy because

celebrities are unattainable people you can't look like Sabrina carpenter she wears a wig but you can smell like her you can smell like her and so there's a reason that celebrities do perfumes before they do anything else but going back to Sabrina carpenter this is her this is her fourth scent her first was in 2022. Then she launched caramel in 2020. Then there's cherry. So this is her fourth. Look back and maybe we can have a graphic of what the old perfume bottle looked like.

It was horrific. It looked like bath and body works. And now it's like she's evolved to have like the culture. Everything she's doing is playing into the culture while being authentic to her. Her first scent revolved around chocolate and food. So it's really interesting. everyone thinks Sabrina Carpenter's an overnight success. She's been working at this for nine albums.

For perfume scents. Like multiple rounds of wigs. Like she is not an overnight. Yes. Which is why I was really happy. I was actually a music hater of Sabrina Carpenter earlier this year. Ended up loving it. But I was really happy to see that her song was the number one on 2024 wrapped.

Because I actually think she is who people should aspire to be. Yeah, she deserves it. She deserves it. Yeah. I really quickly want to touch on Taylor Swift. We kind of talked about how her tour was like the number one. Are you a Swifty? I have always been a Swifty.

Like I can remember first year at university. I'm Canadian everyone. Being in our dorm rooms literally listening to Fearless, like on a CD on repeat. I was not that old. But there were definitely eras of hers like Folk more ever more like that. like that wasn't my vibe. Yeah. But like her most recent album,

huge fan. I love Taylor Swift because she's a body. She's a silent body. Taylor Swift is actually like a womanizer in disguise. Like she is, she has dated the most like amazing men in Hollywood. But the thing I respect the most about Taylor Swift is she is one of the few musicians. And I used to work in music for people that don't know with some of the biggest artists in the world.

I've launched so many brands. I've invested out of a music record label, corporate venture arm. And she is one of the few musicians that has built a billion dollar empire off of music. Most people build it off of their clothing brands, their alcohol brands.

That's where the money is, which is why we've seen just an influx of products from celebrities. But Taylor Swift is the one that I respect the most because she's done it from her craft. Yeah. She's not putting more shit into this world that we don't need.

And when she does launch something, thing, I have a feeling. It's going to just be the next fucking P&G because it is going to be that big because she's waited as long as she has to find the right thing. Does she have a perfume? I need to look into it. I don't even think she does. And if she does, it's a licensing deal, so it doesn't even count.

Okay. I think we should wrap for there for today. I think the rest, honestly, are going to be too long. And I would like to have you back on to the podcast. I think I'm my best self when I'm around you. I always tell you that. But thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me.

And I'll see. in bed tonight when we used to share the bed. Yes, let's cuddle. Okay, love you.