Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Gossiping About Failed Beauty Brands, Not Having Kids, and Genius PR Moves (Maggie & Katie Sellers)

Episode Date: July 30, 2025

What if the brand you built failed—and it wasn’t your fault?What if dating came with warning labels, and choosing not to have more kids was the most radical decision of all? In this week’s episode of Hot Smart Rich, Maggie Sellers and Katie Sellers are back in the studio, and this one’s personal. From beauty brand collapses to viral dating apps and modern motherhood, they unpack the stories that had them hooked (and sometimes heartbroken) this week. They go deep on: - Why it’s never been easier to launch a beauty brand—and never harder to keep it alive - What Ty Haney’s return to Outdoor Voices teaches us about comeback stories and founder evolution - The rise (and potential fall) of the dating app Tea, and what it says about toxicity, accountability, and modern dating - The Wall Street Journal report that proves women are still doing everything—at home and at work - Fertility, family planning, and the radical idea of saying “one child is enough” - Burnout, boundaries, and why creators (and founders) must take breaks - Gwyneth Paltrow’s genius PR move with Astronomer and why everything is content—even your ex-husband’s scandal Whether you're building a brand, questioning your timeline, or just trying to stay sane in your 30s—this episode is for you. Become an HSR Angel in the Global HSR WhatsApp channel! – This episode is sponsored by: - Frate Returns - Tell them HSR sent you and learn more here - HSR Newsletter - Get 3 months free using ⁠this link⁠. ⸻ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ If you like what you hear, rate, review, and subscribe to Hot Smart Rich, the podcast supporting women who own their worth — in business, wealth, and life. ⁠Subscribe on Youtube⁠ ⸻ 💌Own your worth — and build the life you want. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter, the no-BS guide to startup life, consumer brands, and becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self, written by Maggie Sellers. Join 250,000+ women building wealth, confidence, and community on their own terms. ⁠Subscribe here!⁠ ⸻ Follow Maggie here: Instagram: ⁠@maggiesellers⁠ TikTok: ⁠@maggiesellers_ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Maggie Sellers⁠ ShopMy: ⁠Maggie Sellers⁠ Amazon Storefront: ⁠maggiesellers⁠ ⸻ Follow Katie here: Instagram: ⁠@katiesellers_ ⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn: ⁠Katie Sellers⁠ ⸻ More from Hot Smart Rich: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's never too early to plan your summer story in Europe with WestJet, from rolling countryside to cobblestone streets. Begin your next chapter. Book your seat at westjet.com or call your travel agent. WestJet, where your story takes off. In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Finally, I have someone that will clap with me again.

Well, as the editor, I know how important it is. It is really good to ground yourself. Like, have you ever been stressed out? you just take a minute breath of breathing. Yeah, breathing. I don't clap to myself. Katie Seller's. I'm ready to get hot for rich. So ready. We're back. We are back. I don't know if everyone can tell, but I am somewhat back because I'm still sick. Yeah. So I thought we would start it with consumption habits as we always do. And mine is not cool because I just bought cold and flu this morning. That's needed. Needed. You're really struggling today.

Yeah. But I think the last was expensive thing that I've been. I'm actually going to bring it back to Airwant. I, after eating in Europe for three weeks, realized just how expensive Airwant is. Oh, it's disgusting. I think we live in this like illusion in this bubble when we're in L.A. That it's just the norm. It is not the norm. No, not the norm.

$50, you're telling me that a combo plate delivery, bananas and like a midday squares is, that is insane. So what are you returning? I'm not returning. Oh, I thought you said I'm going to return it to Erawan. No. No, no, I'm just saying that's what I bought and it was $51. So I'm saying that's the most expensive last thing that I bought.

What about you? Well, the Uber to get here from LAX. Okay, PSA, if you are coming to L.A. Never fly in on a Sunday night at 10 p.m. No, no. I mean, for me, I'm like, oh, either it's super early Monday morning and like that's a grind or Sunday night. Like, from, I ordered the Uber the moment I stepped off the plane.

By the time I got to the road, I waited 35 minutes. it's for the Uber still. And it was like $150. It was $109. Which actually was like, that's pretty decent for a black from LAX. So that's probably the last most expensive and the last thing that I purchased. Okay.

Yeah. We also have to talk about our new setup without things with the mics. Like I'm not holding something. I know. If you're not watching this, we actually got built in mics now and we're going to try to go with that. Yeah. Because the podcast is progressing.

So the podcast is not just progressing. The podcast is. You know what I always say? I'm no longer just surviving. I'm thriving. You're thriving. So the podcast is no longer just surviving. It's thriving.

And it's so interesting because I said this in this content brief that I did with Spotify, which was like we started this podcast with iPhones. We also started it with those road mics that you can bring with you anywhere. I will say the sound quality is so much better with that wired and mic. It is. And now that we have a producer that's doing video and audio, hi Christian, we have someone that can like watch the levels as we're going. but it's so interesting because when you're starting something,

you think it has to all be perfect. This is like six and a half months later. And we thought it was perfect. I know. That's the embarrassing thing. It's not embarrassing though. It's not embarrassing. Like you should be embarrassed by the first thing that you put out when you look back on it.

Yeah. And like I'm not, but like I am kind of. But I mean when you become the top three business podcast in the U.S. And then you chart at number 44 like top podcast globally. obviously we're doing something right yeah it's amazing and we joke about this we're like we had high hopes this is surpassing it this is way surpassing it yeah like beyond so how was ebitha is that wow you okay well i'm that classic person that like when i hadn't been to ebiza i would say ebiza and then when i had gone to ebiza i was like ebitha is amazing and so ebitha was actually incredible this is the

second year in a row I didn't go into a club. Like, I don't know if I'm lame. So you and I have had completely different Ibiza experiences because I went when I was 22 years old. I was at Shwaya. I was at Pasha. I was like out partying with my college friends. I never went on a Euro trip after school. Yeah. But I feel like Ibitha has turned into this like if you seek it, it's this wellness kind of sanctuary for a lot of really high net worth, really successful people. So it's funny when you're even landing into the airport. You'd just see like all the PJs lined up on the tarmac, which is hilarious. We had such a unique crew that kind of all came together.

We were staying at this compound called Sabina Ibiza, which essentially is built on circadian rhythms, which obviously we're super interested in. I wanted you to explain that. Like in the newsletter, you said it's built on some sort of like energetic plane. It's built on these lay lines. And so it's supposed to help with like meditation and manifestation. Got it. And then there's a lot of like old stories.

around the goddess of fertility and love. And so there's just a lot of like wellness, mythical aspects to the island. But Sabina that we were staying at is essentially a compound that is extremely expensive to buy property on. But it's built on circadian rhythm. So like every single thing in the compound is supposed to be for like, you're waking up with the sun,

you're going to bed, obviously not because it's like a party island. But like even the light switches have on like a circadian rhythm sense. So it was amazing. We had the dopest crew of like really successful people. new people in their career. We had spent some time with this amazing family that I had met from London who just like brought such a different energy to the group.

The Brits. The Brits. Like I love the Brits. I was talking. They were asking me of the podcast and I was like, we talk about money and sex. And they're like, great, everything that Brits don't talk about. I'm like aggressively watching Love Island UK right now. So like I'm feeling British.

But yeah. So Ibitha was amazing. There's also just like it feels so nice to be home and wearing jeans and a sweater again. Yeah. And just to take a beat. for a second. There is no place like home. Yeah, I can't wait to be back.

I feel like there's also so much to talk about today, but I really want to start with beauty. Yeah. Because a lot has happened. So we put out this case study two weeks ago about Amy Cole shutting down, Freck, which isn't really like shutting down. It's just been like sold and operated by someone else, which I feel like is the same founder dilemma that someone like Omicol found themselves

in. But I think in general, like we've seen a shift. in the beauty space of just like how incredibly hard it is to operate businesses, specifically color cosmetics. Yeah. And I thought it was really interesting today because it was announced that Mary Phillips is launching her makeup brand. Oh.

And I actually even amidst how incredibly hard it is to build a color cosmetics brand, think it will actually do really well. So for those of you that aren't familiar, there's this really famous makeup artist, Mary Phillips. And she is known for doing like Haley Bieber. and the Kardashians. So she's launching MPH Beauty, which is a range of makeup products across complexion, lip,

and brushes, it says? Do you think that meant blushes? No, probably brushes. Like if she's a makeup artist, it's like the applicator. Okay. Well, complexion already. It's like shade range. So we'll talk about that.

But it's launching as an exclusive at Sephora.com on August 15th. And then it's going to roll out to 650 retailer doors later this month. So Mary Phillips is so iconic because, do you know that makeup technique where you would do bronzer and your concealer underneath your foundation? Oh yes. She came up with that. Okay. Okay. I remember that being a huge thing like a year or two ago. I still do it though. Like I didn't do it today and I remember that podcast I did for a Dear Media podcast and I looked at it after and like my contour was so poorly blended and I was like the one day I didn't do the Mary Phillips technique. Okay. But so she calls it underpainting. Okay. And kind of like

Jen Akin, I do feel like she has a white space. Yeah, and she has credibility in the space. And I think that's the other thing we hear time and time again is like if you have credibility regardless of where you're building, but especially in consumer, it does make a difference. Well, and I think the other thing that we talked about in our case study a few weeks ago was like colors so expensive to scale. So expensive. Because of the shade extensions that you need. And so I think not that I know the ins and outs of how she will fundraise, but like she knows a lot of people. She does a lot of really successful people's makeup that I don't feel as though it will be as hard to raise money as it will be for other founders that don't have those connections

necessarily. And I think like it's interesting because the time that we're at in the market is like there has been to our point this like disenchantment of color cosmetics over the last while from strategics. And that's why there have been so many brands in the market that like haven't been able to move. but like I do believe that like that will eventually go away and there will be a runway and the next say like five to seven years where there will be an appetite for strategics to acquire.

And if she's starting now like hopefully she knows that it's like it's going to take that five to seven year period but the timing of the market feels right. Yeah it feels right if you can get in now and build towards exiting in like the five year timeline or if you're Haley Beaver. like doing it much faster in three to four. But for every, you know, M&A, either it's hot or it's not, or right now, strategics are offloading, like assets that aren't performing. I think it's, it is a great time to get in. And a lot of what we're seeing is these like, you know, summer Fridays or merit, makeup by Mario, rare beauty, which like back until last year, business of fashion was reporting, like these are all of the brands that are on the market to be acquired.

and literally not one of them has been acquired except for road. Yeah. The interesting thing about all those businesses and beauty in general is like the hero product. It's like she has a method. It's like the Tracy Anderson method of working out. It's not like abs. It's like Tracy Anderson method. Yeah.

It's like you have to get it all to use the Mary Phillips method and to get the face and the look and the vibe. I think that there still is room in beauty, but it does take a very specific founder. And I think we've also just seen like such a. saturation in the beauty space because it has never been an easier time to start a brand. It's also never been a harder time to keep a brand alive. Totally.

And I think it's also like having this constant reinvention of yourself. Like we even find that on a human level. You're constantly reinventing yourselves. Humans make mistakes. And so to have someone who just stays stagnant in the space and isn't evolving with the times is why I feel like we have seen a lot of brands that like, haven't been able to keep up because they haven't continued to evolve, whether it's their packaging, whether it's like the way that they talk to their consumer, whether it's even like their formulas.

And I think it's interesting. It's like, you know I love freck so much. I know. You're obsessed. Love the freckles. Yeah. When I think about everything I've been taught about business, it's like, are you building a function or are you building a platform? And to me, they started with a function feature, right? It's like a feature. It's freckles. And I don't know a freck of all. And I don't know a Freck evolved into like a platform of a brand even though that could have been their hero skew. But I think the way that Mary is already starting to build it feels more like to our point like a platform versus a product. Yeah. Like she's starting from the place of even building alongside a community. What do you think about her choosing Sephora over Alta? I think that's 100% the right

move. If you want to build a mastige type brand that you're going to have like won the cachet of being in Sephora and Sephora like as big as all of these behemoth retailers are and how difficult they can be at the end of the day they also do do a good job of coming alongside brands and helping them grow in scale but I think as a founder you need to go in eyes wide open and be like do I want a relationship that's going to be predictive with someone like Sephora where they tell me what I have to do and when I have to do it and if that's not what you're looking to build, then like maybe Sephora isn't for you. And then on the Alta side of things, it's like been described as that's the marketplace. Like that's like Amazon where not like

anyone can get in, but it has a little bit of a different connotation. Wait, but I think that Alta is actually like really catching up right now. So I think they, I have a prediction that they're going to be like the mecca of supplements because like all of the announcements that have come out recently is like so many supplement brands. And I think that could. be their white space, like not 100%, but I think if they do a similar playbook of Sephora, like finding the early stage brands that are growing and have the potential and then help them actually like grow as an exclusive. Yeah. I actually think that also could become the place where it's like the Sephora of supplements. Or it goes back to your like,

it's the all of young kind of thing where it is more of a marketplace. And you can get beauty, you can get supplements, you can get whatever else they're going to go into. But yeah, the big announcements of ritual being offered in Alta. And Serena Williams joining. And Serena Williams joining. Makes so much sense, by the way, as somebody that worked at that intersection of celebrity and beauty brands. Yeah.

Because realistically, Serena will be so helpful when she is trying to sell on shelf at Alta. It's a recognizable name. That is always the time when I tell founders, like if you are going into retail, if you have been considering a celebrity face, like, that is always the time to really, like, prioritize that. because retailers love it. It's a recognizable face.

There's so many options that having Serena be a part of that, I actually believe is the right move for ritual. Do you use ritual? No, I've been using burden B. Oh, they do something similar. Well, they do like on my second fertility journey. It's more for fertility. That's the first one that I've heard you say my second fertility journey. Yeah, well, the first one wasn't even really a journey.

You just got pregnant on the first one. That's amazing. Which doesn't always happen. No. No. Let's be honest, founders. Returns are a nightmare for business. If you're scaling a Shopify brand, you already know the costs I'm talking about.

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cash and convert more customers, period. So if you're ready to turn your returns into revenue, head to Freight.com and tell them Hot Smart Rich sent you for an exclusive offer and white glove service. That's F-R-A-T-E.com and tell them Hot Smart Rich sent you. Every ambitious woman has a secret weapon. So let yours be the hot smart rich insights. It's how over 250,000 women are owning their worth in business, wealth, and life. Whether you're building a brand, making moves in your career, or wanting to get control over your finances, the Hot Smart Rich newsletter delivers the cultural context and consumer intel to keep you ahead. With only six months left in the year, it's time to make consumer trends, financial hacks, and HsR Insights your best friend,

instead of mindlessly scrolling on social media. We've built one of the most powerful communities of women at the intersection of consumer, capital, and culture. So join us with the paid version of our newsletter free for three months with the link in the show notes to claim your free offer. Okay, in other news, did you see that Ty Haney is now about? Yes. What do you think?

I'm so proud of her. I'm so proud of her because, and I distinctly remember this when I was working at Missouri, Emily Weiss was getting taken down. Ty Haney was being absolutely crucified in the press. And it's so funny because we talk a lot about being like a forward facing founder. And at that time, the CEO founder of Missouri, Nora, like made a definitive decision where she was like, I'm not being a forward facing founder because of what is happening to these women.

And she literally got rid of her social media. Wow. And so to see a woman, regardless of, of like the internal, you know, dynamics of what actually happened in the company, I don't want to like belittle anyone's personal working experience, but like to see a woman who was crucified and torn down by the media in a way that a man never would have been to not only start another business, try your best, but then. And doggy. And yeah, and then become back in control of like the brand that started it all for you. I feel like that's a very powerful.

like return to self moment for her. Well, and I think also just did you watch the commercial of her as like, hi, I'm Ty Haney and I'm 23 years old and I just graduated from Parsons and like I'm starting outdoor voices to like bring movement to people. And then the commercial that just came out this morning started with her daughter being like, Mommy, what is outdoor voices? Yeah. And to see a woman who's evolved from that period of time, that's now a mother.

Yeah. And like be able to bring that into the fold. is just such a signal to women to like never give up. And I think it's interesting because there's so many ways I could take this. But overall, I'm super interested to see how this plays out in terms of like what her role and structure is. Because what I've read so far is that she's not the CEO. She's the owner, founder and partner.

I'm interested to see who she brings into that seat because that's a make or break kind of role. It is. And someone that she has to be super aligned with. Don't you think, though, that this is the biggest reminder. as to why, like, having a strong mission is so important when you're building a brand because she is doing the same mission 10 years later, which is like doing things. So she's coming back to that. And like, I think that's why I'm cheering so hard for her. And like, I really want it to be

successful because you can just tell every single bone in her body wanted to build this company, not for the headline. It was like because she genuinely wanted to bring the love of movement back. Yeah. And I remind myself of that with Hot Smart Rich so many times. it's so easy to like completely just forget why you started or what you're doing. And when you face things when people are mad at you or you ruffle feathers or you do the wrong thing or you get distracted or you see the competition, it's so easy to like fall into that and spiral. And when you just remind yourself like this is why I'm doing this and I am maybe going to piss some people off and like it's not going to be for everybody. It's okay. And I think seeing this for me

today was like everything that I needed to see to remember why I'm doing what I'm doing, which is like to truly help women in business, like on the personal and on the professional side. Because in that 10 years of Tye from her starting outdoor voices, leaving in 2020, now coming back five years later, think about her evolution as a person. Totally. Who talks about that? We do. Yeah. And her story as like a founder to where she is today, like that's the whole reason why Hot Smart Rich exists because women have been told for so long, like, you can't be all of these things. Like, if you're going to be the founder and the CEO and the CEO seat, like, only be that. And when you deviate from that, it's outside of the norm. People don't like that.

And so I'm so proud that we're creating a space where, you know, if Hot Smart Rich was around 10 years ago, like, maybe Ty Haney would have had a different experience listening to our show and, like, connecting with women who are going through the same thing. Wait, can we talk about the fact of like how many women are connecting in our WhatsApp channel? Like thousands. It's insane. Like people are self-selecting to do like working sessions online.

They're putting a directory together. Like yeah. It's so crazy to me because I feel like having created this space, it has nothing to do with me anymore. Like I, that's actually one of the things for everyone that's listening that is in the group chat that this is not our first rodeo. we failed before on trying to create something like this. Yeah.

We did a Slack channel when we first started that was like... 2023, man. 2023 when it was like trying to facilitate these conversations that were so forced. And then all it ended up being was like everybody direct messaging me. Yeah. To be like, can I have your advice on this? And then that's not scalable, which is why I started doing content in the first place. And two, it didn't actually solve the problem of like building a community around women.

And I think that is something that, like, you can't buy and women need. And nothing is more obvious than with that company T. Okay. Well, we need to talk about this because I'm on a completely different algorithm, obviously. And like, I didn't even know what this was. So, okay, T is this app that has blown up because they ask users to upload a selfie and a photo of their ID. Okay. women then post photos of men,

review them, ranging from like bad dates to warnings to scams. Okay. Other women can then add their experiences or react with like red or green flag emojis. And then there's some things that are behind a paywall, like background checks, which our MBA intern was actually in it and was watching it before this data leak happened, which is such an unfortunate situation.

Yeah. here are my thoughts on it. And this is going to be controversial. You can be toxic for somebody as much as they can be toxic for you. And they won't be toxic for somebody else. I 100% agree. It took me so long to figure out that like I was the problem in previous relationships sometimes because I was triggering for that person as much as they were triggering for me.

And so on the one hand, I can hold that. And then on the other hand, I have this other truth where it's like women banding together and being able to share experiences. Like I love this trend on TikTok where it's like if your husband is having his bachelor party in Nashville and like his name is Kyle. Like he's doing X, Y, and Z. And they have literally found men that are about to get married and that are cheating on their fiance.

So on the second hand, I hold the truth of like women banding together and being able to like build this community and help each other, I love it. So I think with everything in life, like, it's all about the user's discretion. Like, choose your own adventure. And with something like this, I would always, maybe if I was single and I was on it, like I would look at it with not 100% certainty. People evolve. But I do think the timing of the data leak is just too coincidental.

Yeah, way too coincidental. Like it starts blowing up in the app store. It's climbing the charts. And then all of a sudden, like, there's this data leak. And like that's really going to hurt the business. Totally. Would you ever use that if you were single? Oh, I feel like this, it kind of does remind me like I'm really dating myself here.

Like I started using Facebook when I was 16 years old. This was like early early days of it coming online because we had an education email address. And this was back in the day when Facebook. Facebook. And I'm thinking back to like the leaks that happened with Facebook where it was like rating guys or rating girls or whatever. And that was like the big controversy that caused Facebook to actually like pop off in the beginning. So part of me with the data leak is like are they trying to take a page out of like Facebook's page with like just causing attention to themselves? But I mean, I totally agree with you. One person's adventure is not going to be the other person's.

And even from my experience of dating and marrying my husband ultimately, like, we went on dates when we were 25. We didn't continue dating and we ended up marrying each other. Marrying each other. Yeah. But he wasn't toxic when he was 25. No, no. But I could have been like, oh, you know, like I just didn't want to continue whatever it is.

Like I obviously, we had an experience where we didn't want to continue seeing each other. So I think like, but yeah, then if it's someone who's predatory and is. toxic and genuinely a bad person, you know, the women need to band together. Yeah. But so I don't know. And I'm not in the place in my life where I need to or want to. So it's really kind of hard for me to answer that. It's so funny because it kind of reminds me of like Reddit and now these companies

are paying for professional redditors to like start community on their behalf. And I still don't know if that will be successful. It'll be interesting to track it. Like can you really buy community? I don't know. Maybe if you have somebody, and I can, like, name some. I actually really want to name some of the people that have just, like,

been so amazing in this since I started H-SR, but like Kayla, Nina. Lily. Lily. Page. Like, I know these girls all by name, you know, because they have been unofficial HSR angels. Brooke.

Brooke. Like, Brooke from Australia is literally hosting meetups. Like, we are trying to find a world in which, like, we can actually engage this. on a professional level because that is what these companies are trying to buy and fabricate. It is so hard to do that. We're looking for a sponsor. So.

But I don't know if you can buy community. Like I don't think you can. Even if you're buying professional Redditors, like it would have to be someone who's so deeply passionate about what they're writing about because we say all the time, the consumer is smart. And communities are smart. They know if it's not genuine. And they know if it's also like coming from a place of genuine. or also being paid.

The other thing, and I'll say this about Reddit, is like, you can go on to someone's Reddit profile and see what else they're commenting on. And so what sub-Ruddits or whatever they are in. And you do get suspicious. Like if you're on it like a, there's a hate Reddit thread or whatever, you can go in someone who's posting something nasty. If they're only posting something about that one person constantly all the time, it's like you're a troll who hates whoever.

it's the same thing with community building. Like if you're only posting randomly like, oh my God, I love this and I love that. It's like, well, that's fake. It's interesting though because I think more than anything, women need community digitally than they do physically because did you see that report from the Wall Street Journal that women are falling behind in the workplace? Obviously, I said this on the last podcast episode and upon reflection it can come across in the wrong way where I was like, if you're not going to be, going into the office, you're never going to be successful. Yeah. So true in your 20s.

Like if you are not grinding your ass when you have no responsibilities, no kids, no husband, no mortgage, like that's on you. You know, you're choosing to have a different life. But I think where maybe I would self-reflect and say I would maybe change my opinion is like related to this Wall Street Journal article where women are falling behind at work again because of all of the responsibilities they have outside of the work. They have them in the home. Yeah.

And the more successful women get at work, the more they actually take on in their home. Why? It's like a weird phenomenon that you would think that as earnings and career trajectory equal out between men and women as they're married, you would expect that the mental load and burden of the home becomes more equally shared. But what has actually happened is that as the women become more successful, they actually take on more. And the husband takes on less. And I think in self-reflection, thinking about it is like if you are a woman and you're in business mode and you're like a type A high performing, it's like you have a to do list.

I'm already doing things. I'm just going to add it on and I'm going to find a way to make it work. Like it just becomes like a cycle of I know how to do this. I can do it maybe more efficiently. I don't need to, I'm making my own money, so I actually don't even need to ask you for your perspective if I'm just going to pay for it. But it is highly concerning that, like, one, women are taking on more.

They're not being, you know, equally sharing the burden with their partner. And then, two, if you're falling behind in the workplace because of having kids and whatever, like, I just don't want to be saying that in 2025. Well, it's interesting because for the first time, the U.S. just reported that fertility rates are dropping. And not shocking. Not shocking. As a mom. So women are having 1.6 children per woman on average in 2024.

That is lower than the U.N.'s projection for the world's overall rate, which is 2.25, as well as the figure for the U.S. was 1.62 in its world population prospects report for 2024. Not shocking when, like, women are falling up behind. it is so incredibly expensive to raise children, the mental load of raising children. Why do you think people still do it? Still have one or two? Still have children. Oh, still have children. I mean, I feel like there is just part of like your human DNA of like procreating

and continuing on. That's just like part of human biology. And I think I'll take you and me as an example. When we were kids, you were desperately, like constantly, I, you know, I'm going to be a mom. I'm so excited to be a mom. I don't think I was like that at all. I was always like, I don't want kids. No, I was like kids, kids, kids.

Okay. Like when we were, you know, five, six, seven years old, it was like something that you talked about. And then you went through a period where you were like, I don't know if I want to. It's a lot of work. And now you've sort of come back the other way where you're really excited about it. So I think there's like, partially it's human DNA. Like you do want to procreate to continue on.

And then too, like when you are intelligent and in a high earning household, like you do kind of have a responsibility to like continue to further the gene pool of people who are going to continue to think and act like you. But I mean, I'll say for me in my personal experience, like we have one son. we've gone through like a journey of trying to conceive a second one with then a whole bunch of like family stuff that's happened in the midst of it where I've had a miscarriage we've had my sister-in-law who passed away and and you had trouble getting pregnant and like it was over a year and a half of trying to conceive and then you're like well at what cost am I going to

continue adding this whole other layer of like mental load to your life when I have one beautiful child and he feels like enough. And so I don't know. I feel like I love my son. I love our family. If there was a second one, I would absolutely love it. But I feel like the average American woman who's like life is fucking hard. And I if it's not going to come easily, I'm not working for it. But don't you? Like then like I think about our bond and I'm like, oh my God. Like having a sibling is literally the biggest blessing of my entire life. Like I cannot imagine living my life or building a business without you.

And there's no relationship like a sibling. I don't think that there is. And so I think it's interesting because that is such a selfless thing to say to because it's actually not for you at that point. It's like for your kid. And I think about that a lot where I'm like, okay, well now my son would be four years old if I conceive today. That's a four-year age difference.

It's very different than a two-year age difference being the same gender. And but then I've heard from a lot of people with big age differences where they're like, when you're an adult, like it all evens out. It all evens out. And it's great and wonderful. And like, yeah, I do want that for him. But you do definitely have as the mom with the mental load and it's my body. I don't know how women do it.

It's so miraculous what we put our bodies through. It's a marathon. day. Yeah. A marathon. Yeah. And I'm still going to work. I'm still cleaning my house.

I'm still keeping up social relationships. Maybe having sex with my husband if he's lucky. Okay. With that, I think that we're done with today's episode, right? Is there anything else that we wanted to cover? Okay. We were going to wrap the episode.

And then Katie reminded me that we did have on the astronomer situation. Listen, I don't really want to comment too much on that because... Okay. When I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids, and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my head of office has a forever setting.

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I want to comment on Gwyneth Paltrow. Same. Yeah. But I'm trying to formulate my words. And actually our friend Sharih, who was just on who wrote that article in Forbes, about like, just be careful about your content strategy of like using someone else's pain. Like this poor wife, these poor kids. Like I don't really want to comment on that dynamic.

But I think so many people listening to this, like myself included, or so afraid of controversy. Yeah. And like when has there ever been a controversy that like hasn't skyrocketed? if played correctly, the right outcome for people. And so I think it's just so interesting to look at astronomer hiring Kenneth Paltrow, who is the ex-wife of Chris Martin, who essentially called this couple out to do an ad that had...

As a spokesperson. As a spokesperson while they were figuring out their new spokesperson, like this PR team is a genius. They deserve an award for it, truly. They do. It is so smart. It reminded me of the Peloton ad, where at the end of the Sex and the City movie,

when Mr. Big gets a heart attack on the Peloton, and then like Peloton puts in an ad with him, like talking about cardiovascular. Yeah. That is the type of like creative marketing that cuts through the noise. Yeah. Do you think that Gwyneth Paltrow called Chris Martin and was like, I'm going to do this.

What do you think? Ooh. I think yeah. Maybe with the whole unconscious uncoupling, whatever she called it, decoupling. I feel like they have a good relationship. so I would think she probably did. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the type of like example of co-parenting that we need to see in the news more is like those funny types of things and like the way that they are probably still really respectful of each other. And even if they didn't, don't you think that Chris Martin would have laughed? I would hope so. I mean, it's too good not to. That is the best end to that controversy that I feel was actually really sad on one hand. But it did like bring. levity and humor to a situation.

That happens a lot. And it happens a lot. Happens a lot. So I think it also is just a good reminder that it's like we live in this world where everything is on a camera. You never know who's watching down to the point where it's like even my consumer news that I gossiped about the most this week. Like people have no idea where I'm seeing that information.

Like this girl I know Leah, I've met her maybe once. I loved the ad that she did for her company filter baby. Yeah. She doesn't know that I didn't engage with it. but I was like, this deserves attention. I'm going to put this in my newsletter. So like thousands of people will see it. And she messaged me and I just responded to her and I was like, you never know who's

watching. Post the content. Post the thing. Yeah. For good or for bad. And that real, if you have not watched it on Instagram is so good. I was watching it on the plane yesterday and I was like, this is gold. And by the way, had you seen it before I talked about it?

No. No. And I think like that's where we get so into these silos of like what we're consuming. But that was literally Leah posting. it to her story. I thought it was hilarious, especially on the heels of like Alex Earle, Carl's, Super Bowl commercial going live, which is, I wouldn't say overly sexual, but like definitely wearing a small bikini, definitely looking gorgeous. So to see a woman founded and ran brand do the same thing with a male sex symbol. Yeah. Brilliant. Deserves the attention. Yeah. So I think, yeah,

it's a good reminder that like for better or for worse, people are watching, post, the content and like even if you're in your flop era which to address I am a huge proponent of creators taking off time. So the first time I went to Europe this summer I was in like constant curation mode constantly taking photos constantly thinking of like how can I make my life content. And then I thought when I was going back to Europe I was going to do the same thing and I had this epiphany on the plane because when I used to work for the biggest music artists in the world I was thinking about their strategy of how they don't burn out for years. And there's different cycles of their career.

So like they're in album making mode. So they're in the studio. They're not doing any PR, any press. They are focused on like putting out amazing art and crafting it to the point where they're like, okay, now I'm going to go into album promotion mode or touring mode where they're taking every single opportunity to stay relevant.

They're doing like reading mean tweets about myself. They're doing like 10 of my favorite things with GQ. they're doing Vogue, get ready with me. They're doing their own content. And I do not think it's normal for creators to not take a break at all. And it's not like I didn't post like maybe twice or three times a week. But I just didn't make my entire life content, which is a very big hypocrisy to what I first said when I came back from Europe.

But I've never felt so refreshed, so excited, so rejuvenated. And I think it is important to talk about where it's like, that was a really conscious choice for me, where it was like, I'm just not going to engage on this. And now I'm back and I'm ready to like push out a bunch of content and I feel really good about it. But I think just being intentional and really thinking through like what you want out of that situation is really important for creators to do.

And just anyone in general, like whether you're an operator, a founder, an executive, like a mom, everyone needs a break fully, especially when your whole life is business. Yeah. Like I look at some of these creators like Valeria. And I'm like, how do you ever take a break? Well, she has a team of 18 people. But she's still the one starring in the campaign. I know.

I think a lot of it when she's on vacation, like, is repurpose content, which is a hack. Yeah. I want to leave everyone with like something to go check out, which is the creator method. I'm obsessed with everything that Valeria is doing. She is definitely someone I'm manifesting to get into this chair. So if anybody knows Valeria, how do I say her last name? Lipibetsky.

Lipovetsky. Please slide into her DMs on my. behalf, I would love to have her on the show. Yeah, that's, that's a good manifestation. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thanks so much for tuning in you guys and see you next week. Love you. Love you.