Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Gossiping About Hailey Bieber’s Haters, Ami Colé’s Diarrha Failing Fast & Forward into Skims, & How To Win With An Unfair Advantage (Maggie Sellers Reum & Katie Sellers)

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

Back by popular demand, Maggie Sellers Reum and Katie Sellers are back in the studio to gossip about business, sisterhood, and the new rules of being a woman in work, and in life. From speaking at Duke’s Women’s Leadership Lab to breaking down the rhode $200M P&L, to the SKIMS hire that no one saw coming, this conversation blends strategy, gossip, and sister energy in the most Hot Smart Rich way possible.  In this candid, unfiltered conversation, Maggie and Katie gossip about: Cycle-syncing and optimizing your life around your menstrual cycle Why being “not for everyone” is actually your biggest advantage — and how polarization builds loyalty, not hate. The Sephora Sale playbook, how luxury brands train customers not to wait for discounts, and what early decisions set you apart. The rhode x e.l.f. P&L: $200M in revenue, 33% margins, and why Hailey Bieber’s brand is rewriting the rules of beauty What every founder can steal from Rhode — the “unfair advantage” framework and how to out-execute competitors even without a celebrity name. Failing fast and publicly. How Diarrha’s Skims comeback proves a career pivot can be your power move. The real lessons from rejection. Why sales is the ultimate training ground and why they’d never push their kids into investment banking. Creators as the new Disney. How Steven Bartlett’s $425M raise proves that distribution is the modern superpower. Becoming your own mood board. The art of self-belief, reinvention, and writing the story you actually want to live. No matter where you are in your career, this episode helps navigate tricky conversations about redefining success, learning when to lead and when to let go, and trusting your own version of ambition — no matter how loud the noise gets — to truly be able to lean into your own superpowers. Chapters 00:00 Intro 03:00 Speaking at Duke: Redefining Leadership for the Next Generation 07:30 When You’re Not for Everyone — and That’s the Point 11:00 The Sephora Sale Rulebook: How To Build a Brand That Doesn’t Discount 15:00 The Rhode x e.l.f. Acquisition Breakdown — $200M Revenue, 33% Margins 17:00 Why Hailey Bieber’s Brand Is Changing the Industry 20:00 What Every Founder Can Learn From Rhode’s Playbook 22:00 The “Unfair Advantage” Framework — and How to Find Yours 24:00 The Power of Failing Fast and Publicly: Diarrha’s Skims Evolution 27:00 Second Lives in Business: Why Not Every Success Story Starts at Zero 28:30 Rare Beauty’s Katie Welch Joins Chanel: The New Definition of Success 31:30 What It Means to Be a Visionary (and Still Hire a CEO One Day) 33:00 The Real Lesson From Sales — Learning to Handle Rejection 36:00 The VC Associate Myth — and What Founders Really Think 38:00 Breaking Down Steven Bartlett’s $425M Raise 39:30 Why Creators Are The New Conglomerates 40:30 Knowing Yourself: The Real Currency of Success 44:00 Wrapping Up: Sisterhood, Self-Belief & Reinvention Hot Smart Rich: Join 250,000+ angels and subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter: https://hotsmartrich.com/subscribe Become an HSR Angel in the ⁠Global HSR WhatsApp channel:  https://shorturl.at/xzLPm Buy the Hot Smart Rich Money Mindset here: https://shorturl.at/pJWLc Buy Hot Smart Rich merch: https://hotsmartrich.shop/ YouTube: https://shorturl.at/IXXFZ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hotsmartrich/  TikTok: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Oh, I thought you weren't going to clap with me. I'm always here to clap with me. Well, I love when you're on the podcast for so many reasons, but also because I can use my phone for our notes, which I never usually do. But also because I have someone to clap with me and I feel like people get to really hear my voice. Yeah, and our like banter back and forth, just like group chat. It's interesting because we've been doing a lot surveys of the community, both like formally and informally. And some of people's favorite episodes are with you and I. I'm flattered. Like honestly, when people say that, I'm like, I never expected that. I'm like a filler episode. Well, I wouldn't say you're a filler, but I think it's the best way for people

to get to know the people behind the brand. Yeah. And it's interesting because HSR, the media channel, is growing at what percent? You said 71% in the last 90 days. It is growing so much faster than even my own personal channels. And so it's amazing because it is like, like HSR is growing on without me, but obviously I'm still the host. And these are so fun for people to get to hear my opinions on things. And I'm just so glad that you're back. Me too. And it's been a while since I've been in L.A. Like two months. We've done other trips and stuff together. New York do. Cochralia and too. But it's just nice to be like in your house, sister vibes, hanging out with Courtney also. Like it just, as my husband. Yeah. It's just a fun trip for me,

honestly. But this time you're wearing shoes because the feet people found us. The feet wikis have found us. So for those of you that don't watch the podcast, the whole goal, and this is actually very intentional. So like when you're trying to interview someone, at least for me, it's trying to get them into a really comfortable state. And I find the best conversations are when you're just sitting on the couch, chilling. You're not super formal, super buttoned up. Hence why I wear the same outfit almost every single podcast. Today I'm switching it up. If you're not watching, I'm wearing a burgundy jumpsuit. Love it, actually. With some jeans. no shoes. And I feel like I need to identify my Steve Jobs winter outfit. I mean, this is giving

a vibe and I'm here for it like a little bit of lighter hair, the burgundy, like I'm really into it. But yeah, so in the last week, we have been infiltrated by, I don't even know what their name is, like the feet people who when we first started filming this podcast and you had no shoes on, Guess would be like, I think I'll keep my shoes on because, like, Lindsay Arnold was like, I actually have like a foot wiki page. Allison from Mara also. Yes. And so we were kind of like, that will never happen to us.

And then they have found us. But I will say, I have really nice feet and I have a great pedicure. It's always just the worst when you don't have a good pedicure. Just one of the things that a girl has to worry about. Hence my Bergenstocks. Yeah. So we just spent time together like we were saying at Duke, which was so cool for me because I never would have gotten into Duke.

So to be asked to speak as a professor, not at a club in a curriculum class with professor Seema Sistani was such a life highlight for me. One of the most interesting things for me, though, one of the questions that has really stuck with me is when someone from the class asked how I as a female leader deal with my cycle. And it's interesting because I think having been my own boss for a few years now, we can obviously set our own schedule when we're going to have hard conversations. And it actually threw me for a loop to answer the question because going back into being a corporate employee, it's a lot harder to actually manage that than it is when you're an

entrepreneur. So that's one of the questions that has really stuck out to me. Did that surprise you? It did. I think since I've become self-employed and an entrepreneur, it's become a lot more culturally acceptable just like in conversation for women to talk about their cycle, where they, are, am I ludial, am I follicular? And so it's been an interesting transition and it just never even occurred to me that it's

something that in a corporate environment you would manage around, which like countries do, by the way. Yeah, which some countries do. And like you said, I don't think like the trading floor at Goldman Sachs is going to give you feedback at the optimal time for your cycle. But like, it's just something to be more consciously aware of. But I think that there's things that you can do as a woman where you, don't schedule high intensity workouts that week. You don't overbook your schedule. You take a lot of time

to relax and nurture yourself. So even if your employer isn't going to, which realistically, like, even us, like if someone came to us and was like, I can't, you know, work at full capacity. I'd be like, babes, like I am using five tampons every hour because I have a head of flow. Like, we have to figure something out, you know? But I did that stuck out with me. And then the other thing that really stuck out with me is this is a class of 45 women who are aged from a freshman to a senior. And it's all about the next generation of female leaders. So Professor Sistani has brought in her amazing accomplished friends that are doing all these different entrepreneurial pursuits, big CEOs and CMOs of huge corporate 100 companies. And it's really to paint all of these

different patterns to get to your dream job. Because what was very interesting, even after the class, is so many women coming up to me being like, I never knew that I could be in a financial adjacent role and not go into investment banking. I guess Duke is a very finance, heavy focus school. And so it was cool getting to share our story. Obviously coming from two totally separate things, but like just painting that picture that there is a different way. And to get a little vulnerable, I went onto a podcast with two people that have that traditional finance archetype, right? It's like they are, you know, incredibly successful women that went to the Ivy League schools and worked at the Goldman Sachs's. And my story and tone of voice and positioning

did not land with their audience. Like did not. Did not land. Like they did not enjoy my type of candor, my journey, the way that I talk. And it really hit me hard for a few days. Like I actually had to stop looking at the comments because it was like, whoa, you guys totally don't understand me. And then I was the one that was like, this is amazing. This is what I want. Like, I am not for everyone. And I am targeting that girl that is like sitting around being like, I don't want to go work at Goldman Sachs. I don't want to go and do my MBA.

Like how do I do something different and creative and still get to that spot that you're in? And so it's interesting because I was so proud of myself for having that development and that growth. And then interestingly, I haven't even told you this yet, but I got a message last night on LinkedIn from a girl in law school in Toronto. And she found me through that podcast. and it's the first nice message I've received from that podcast. There was a lot of hate.

There was a lot of hate. And it just was so cool to see how it resonated with her. And she was like, I don't think that I'm in law school for the right reasons. I think that I'm here for my parents. And it just made me remember that like we're doing this with our way. This is our way. And it's not going to be for everyone. But it just, it was interesting to see the Duke in real life of that.

And then also the online side of it and being like, whoa, I really know who our customer is. I'm reading this book. What book? Well, the Dyer of the CEO book, the 33 lessons. And one of them, like there's a section in it about one of the chapters is like to not be wallpaper because wallpaper ends up blending in. And when you are for everyone, you're for no one. And really like finding what is the most absurd thing about you and using that to market

yourself? Hot smart rich. And the way that you talk about life, business, love relationships is, It is polarizing, but that's exactly the reason why it finds the people. And I think you and I both, you also said this in the class, grew up in an environment where, and it's so interesting because both of our parents are creative. Like our dad who actually is like a Bay Street seven sisters partner. No one knows a Bay Street is listening to this podcast, but it's like Wall Street in Canada.

Was a stage manager and a production manager for like live shows and university. And wanted to be a rock star. and wanted to be a rock star and still ended up getting put down the path of like corporate, go to law school, same with you and me. Which is what he did to us. Which is interesting that he pushed us that way. Pushed us that way where it was like I ended up at a big four accounting firm. You ended up in sales at Salesforce after both going to business school. And I think we've both had this like magical revelation about what it means to be able to be your highest fulfilled self in all areas of I'm creative, but I'm business oriented. And there are more than, like Mary said in her episode,

Mary Holland Nader, there's seven jobs people are aware of when they go into college. Lawyer, doctor, nurse, like investment banker. And it stops there. It stops there. And there's roles where even working at Missouri, like VP of Creative Operations, I would be so good at that job. But you never would have put your hand out for that. And I never knew it existed. Yeah. I truly didn't know it existed. Well, that was another lesson that I talked about on this podcast, which did not hit in that way. But it was about like women putting their hand up before they were ready. And I've done that in every single capacity of my life. And if you weren't ready, you wouldn't have the opportunity. I was applying for roles that I was not qualified for like eight years before they said that the

requirement of experience was. Which a man would do, by the way. Which a man would do. And women wouldn't. And so like, yes, my tone of voice is not going to be for everyone. But like, I think that's okay, and I'm actually getting used to that being a good thing. This episode is brought to you by Tellus Online Security. Oh, tax season is the worst. You mean hack season? Sorry, what? Yeah, cybercriminals love tax forms, but I've got Tellus Online Security.

It helps protect against identity theft and financial fraud, so I can stress less during tax season, or any season. Plan started just $12 a month. Learn more at tellus.com slash online security. No one can prevent all cybercrime or identity theft. Conditions apply. Okay, speaking of Missouri, this is a really important conversation to have because this week, you are not going to be able to go onto social media without seeing your favorite

and not your favorite influencer. Talk about the Sephora biannual sale. We both have worked at brands which never went on sale, except for once or twice a year. How do you think you become a brand that doesn't go on sale? Doesn't have to go on sale. Okay, doesn't have to go on sale. I think honestly it comes from like foundationally how you build your business, like unit economics, how you train your customer and making that decision very early on. Are you the row or are you whatever brand is going on sale?

Like when there's a sample sale for the row, there is a line wrapped around New York City because it never happens. It never goes on sale and it doesn't even go on sale online. You physically have to be there and almost be invited. So I think it's like very early brand development, commercialization and brand strategy. So being in a business where we only went on sale once a year and it was for seven days, only seven days. And I think it grew into being seven days over time. But that brand was developed where like the unit economic structure of the way the business was built could support that. And it was positioned in a way where it was like accessible luxury and not something that

you would expect to go on sale. What I learned in that business, and I remember it, we had to make a decision when COVID first started. Are we doing a sale just to like reinvigorate the brand, the customer base to try and get cash flow into the business? And we just had had our new CMO join. She had been at Casper previously. I love her. And she, Nikki, obsessed. She's in LA this week, but she's a nature's our girl. She was like, you will get addicted to the drip. You will see the conversion, you will see the money coming in. And it's not that you need to keep doing it, but you get addicted to it because you see how it changes the performance of your business. But then in turn, it completely changes the entire perception of your brand.

Well, it's also just around expectations. Everything in life is expectations. If your customer expects that you have a sale once a month or once every two months, like they aren't going to buy for me because they've been trained not to do that. Like the gap, hello. Yeah, like whereas with Sephora, I have hacked the system because every single time I'm running out of products, yes, it might be like I'm waiting a month to buy something, but I genuinely need a refresh at the time that there's a sale. But if I am shopping at Sephora when I know it's not a biannual sale, like I'm not asking for a discount. You know, you're not expecting that. And you're not going to not buy it because it's not on sale. Correct. Which I find what's the one thing

that you're getting at this sale? That's like a high ticket item that you've been waiting for. I mean, I'm the same as you. Everything is depleted. Like my Sharif. at Tilbury contour stick. Which I hate. I like it. I don't think it works. But I'm like bottom of the barrel like squeezing stuff out of there. And then I do need another new setting powder.

Because the Hoot of Beauty one that you got me is like also bottom of the barrel. Those are the things I need to refresh. Okay. Well, the Laura Mercierge translucent loose setting powder is definitely my new fave. For me, I have been actually loving experimenting with a big barrel. Okay. So I actually want to get like the biggest barrel possible. because what I want to do is like with keratin, you can't really do a big blowout.

No. But you can fabricate it by curling your ends with a huge barrel. And my hairstylist did it my last appointment. And I was like, that is something I need to fake the blowout look. And then by the way, I'm no longer doing keratin and I'm going to be doing Brazilian blowouts. Yeah, we talked about this in Duke. It's like there's no life to the hair. There's no life to the hair.

And the Brazilian blowout helps calm the frizz down while still keeping the volume. Yeah. Okay. Can I talk about a brand that I have to watch right now? Yes. This is a little shocking. So there's a brand from Canada called Drink Benny. It just launched into 2,000 Target stores today with MLAJ.

She's the face of their new sugar plum fairy flavor. The craziest part about this story is that a Ray just launched into Target, which we just saw nationwide. They came on the podcast and told us that they were doing $100 million of revenue. Okay. Benny, this beverage, last month posted that they just hit their first million dollars in revenue. Million dollar month. No. Oh, annually.

They just hit a million dollars of revenue. Oh, wow. And they're launching into 2,000 target doors. It's really interesting because obviously getting into retail is huge now, being an Omni Channel brand. I was just on the phone with a very large executive at Ulta. And I asked them, I was like, what does it take to get on shelf? Because you don't just want to get on shelf, you want to sell through. and it's a little intimidating, right?

When you haven't built the base up, people don't really know who you are. Like, how are you going to sell through 2,000 target doors, right? And for them, I think every brand is stealing from the Sephora Playbook, like the targets included. It's like building the brand in retail and having that be like almost the only distribution point for these brands. Yeah, like there's exclusivity in that. And obviously I don't know the terms of the deal with any of these, but it was interesting

is when I was talking to this executive at Ulta, they were like, no, like, we don't only look for these big brands. The real kind of like maturity we're looking for is just like, can you get your product to our DC in like a case shelf ready pack? Which is actually a lot harder to do than you would think. But that's like their only requirement. They're not like, oh, you have to have this many Instagram followers or this much of traffic in your other, like they're willing to take a bet on you, which I just thought was

interesting. And so my mind is definitely on a brand. like Benny and I was so happy to see they used Emma because Canadian, Canadian, but Emma also has like a huge US audience. And it's interesting because even as we're starting to like incubate things and help, you know, brands that we're investors in like use different talent, we do look and ask a lot for demographics, right? And my audience is 30% Canadian and pretty much the rest US. Pretty much the rest US. And I think even now with the show growing, it's even more US actually, which is good.

But like it would be cool to do something with a Canadian brand because I still have that audience. Yeah. Okay. We need to talk about road. Oh, road. I was reading their 8K on the plane on the way here yesterday. So this is such an amazing story.

Haley Bieber's haters are absolutely going to hate this. But you can't argue with numbers. No. And the coolest part about being acquired by Elf is that they are a publicly traded brand. Mm-hmm. And we now get to see the entire P&L of Rhodes business. There are a few main takeaways that I think are worth calling out. Because one, despite what people think, this is not just a celebrity beauty brand.

This is a real business. It's a commercial business that's making not just profit, but significant cash flow, which is not even the highlight of the story. No. There is something called an operating margin, which else. is operating around 19%, which is very healthy for that age and stage

of a publicly traded company. Like a 19 to 20% operating profit is good. Right. And you mentioned, obviously, they're incredible cash flow. They're doing around 200 million

of revenue. So obviously, that's an incredible top line growth for Elf to acquire. But the biggest headline of this story is that Road is operating at a 33% operating margin.

Which is crazy. Hence, they are driving up the bottom line value of Elf as a publicly traded company. So in my mind already, this is an creative acquisition. Like this is and when everyone was doubting Haley saying like, oh, they overpaid for this. It's like, no, they didn't. No, because it's immediately bringing up their bottom line and how they're going to get valued on the street. And the other huge headline to me was, okay, Elf made a bet that the first 200 million of revenue was driven by Haley and not having really any.

marketing budget attached to that. If they had had already 50, 100 products, I would be doubtful that they could do it for the next 200 million. Elf made a bet that the halo effect of Haley is going to bring in the next 200 million because they've only had 12 products, which I actually think is a pretty safe bet to make. They have a lot of room too that like if they have to leverage some sort of marketing to reach the next 200 million of revenue, they have that flexibility. earned that right because of how they started building this business. And I think looking at the P&L

yesterday, like the operating profit and the marketing are clearly like the standout winners. And looking at it at from a CFO perspective, there's room in a lot of other areas for them to improve. Like with their gross margin being around 60%. Like it's good, but it could improve, which I know Elf will be able to help with with economies of scale, packaging, formulations, like all that kind of stuff. And then the one, I think like people have talked about this. their G&A line item is a little heavy. And what would that like account for? So that would be like their payroll, their office expenses, like everything else?

Would it be like travel like PJs? Like is Haley taking PJs? Well, I don't think she's running the PJs through the road P&L because the statements are also audited. So like someone is also attesting to them being correct. When things get audited, do you actually look at the executives, the C Suite executives, what they put through on their expense reports? And if things are like, no, that shouldn't be there.

they have to be removed. But wait, can we talk about the fact that there is actually a report that more C-suite executives at Fortune 100 companies are expensing PJs? Well, I mean, let's start doing the PJs. We need Haley on the podcast to describe if like are your PJs in your GNA. But yeah, it would include things like travel. It includes like all the stuff that's not marketing and product in a business. It's sitting in GNA. That's the one thing that was a bit heavy that people have said were like that can definitely be fine-tuned a little bit. But like, I was blown away impressed and I have seen the full skims, like raise deck and financials from when they were raising back in like 2021, 2022. And it's like synonymous with the power of Kim Kardashian and the marketing efficiency she

was able to drive in that brand. Subscriptions aren't just about repeat orders. They're about building real lasting relationships. And that's where recharge comes in. They're the subscription platform powering the brands you know and love, Chamberlain Coffee, Blueland, Bird and B, and over 100 million subscribers worldwide. What we love, recharge takes the headache out of retention with seamless subscription experiences, powerful analytics, and tools that help brands go beyond the moment to keep customers coming back. From flexible billing options to automated retention strategies, they make it easy for brands to deepen their connection with every customer, turning one-time buyers into loyal advocates. This is why we partner with recharge and why they're

giving the HSR community 90 days free, helping brands test, learn, and grow their subscription business with zero risk. To claim this incredible offer of 90 days free, click the link in the show notes. versus taco truck salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Haboniero? More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. It's really interesting because I was at an event last week with like the typical private equity guys. And so they see things like this and they're like it's every single celebrity brand.

You know? And I'm like it isn't though. Like this is the anomaly. And it begs the question like what can people that don't have a Haley Beaver learn from this? I think it comes down because I actually in the article that I'm going to be quoted in in Beauty Independent, I talk a lot about chomps. doesn't have a celebrity founder, doesn't actually even have a publicly facing CEO. And they've been able to achieve, although we don't have the exact financials, like rumor on the street is that they've been able to achieve astronomical numbers in a

similar way. And looking at that business, like it comes down to the fundamentals being right. And if you even listen back to Amy Liu's episode of the podcast, she talks a lot about making sure your hero products have the right unit economics. because you could have the number one seller of your business. And then it's like if that's a cost center and not a profit center, like that will ultimately kill your business in the end. So I actually think that, no, you need to be able to find one really distinct competitive advantage.

Ours happens to be our tone of voice, the way that we talk, the way that we bring news to the market. It's in a digestible, relatable way. It's not, we're not trying to be highbrow. We're not Goldman Sachs. We're not Ivy League. and I remind myself of that, like, that is our competitive advantage. If I can do it, you can do it.

Yeah. And I think when you're looking at a business like road, it's so easy to compare yourself to that and be like, well, I don't have Haley Bieber. But I think like what I wrote down is like leaning into whatever your unfair competitive advantages. I said community, innovation, storytelling. You don't necessarily need to outspend your competitors, but you do need to out-execute them with whatever your unfair competitive advantages.

And I think about that from Sheena's episode with Co- all the time. It's what's your unfair competitive advantage? And there's never one silver bullet. It's doing all of the things all of the time that builds the momentum. And that's what we've done with our business too. Like with HSR and I'll just use the Instagram as an example. It's doing all of the little things all of the time. Testing the data. Being obsessed. What does the customer want? What are they resonating with? Changing course if it's not working. And that is truly how you hack the system. Totally. Is being obsessed, out executing, and figuring out how can I do these things better than

anyone else? And that's how you're going to build the next road. Okay, but if you're not going to build the next road and your business like Amy Colet doesn't make it, there is a second life. I'm so excited to talk about this Amy Colet, Jarrah shut down and then her next chapter being with skims as the head of beauty. Evp of beauty and fragrance, massive. How amazing is that evolution? The Instagram that she posted this morning, it was a reminder to like fail fast and forward. Like if you're publicly and publicly,

if you're going to fail, fail fast and move forward. And she is the prime blueprint of why. Because she was brought it out onto a public stage, which a lot of people wouldn't do. We know founders who have swept failures under the rug to the point where like it has pissed people off. And she published.

Me included. Yeah, you included. She brought it to the front, was very public about it and explained why. And now it has landed her in a position where she's an EVP at Skims. Do you think that she had that role before she went on to the podcast? Aspire. Yeah. No. I don't think so either.

I don't think so. I think they probably had a, like you have with guests who come on, like you kind of do have this otherworldly relationship that you build with people who come on and they kind of bear their soul to you. and as the host, you develop a very interesting deep relationship with the people who come on to your podcast. So I feel like they probably also had their like, you know, come to Jesus conversation where they built a relationship. It was genuine. And Emma, the like businesswoman that she is, was like, you need to come to skims. And because Jara is also building her own public persona. And I think leaders like Emma and leaders like you and I understand this, like there is a balancing act to like having your own personal brand as you are a leader in a company. Like you cannot

make that your primary focus, but it does help. Like I do think for us too, like I do want people at HSR to be able to like live and breathe a brand and promote it. And if they have like, Brooke is a great example. Brooke, who is our HSR global angels ambassador. Like it is incredible that she is building her own personal brand leveraging HR to do that. And then in turn like we benefit. our benefits off of that. So I think similarly, like, that team understands that, where it's like having their own personal brain, which Jara is doing,

is actually a really competitive advantage for them. And by the way, people cheer for the underdog. Yeah. It's exactly what I said on the podcast with Mary. We praise women for being relatable until they start winning. Everybody loves a comeback story. Everybody is now not looking at it as like, oh, that's Kim Kardashian's, like, beauty brand.

That's like, no, that's Jara putting her blood sweat in tears into this, taking all of her mistakes, all of her failures, and people are going to be rooting for that. And that's why people love a second time founder also, which like inherently I kind of see Jara's going in and doing for skims in their beauty business because of all of the like, you know, skin by Kim, selling to Kotti, buying it back. Like there's work to be done on that brand there. They have not figured it out within the skim's ecosystem, how beauty and fragrance are going to work for Kim Kardashian yet. So I'm really excited to see what happens. And I think what you and I also talked about today of like,

there are other interesting ways to build in the consumer ecosystem other than being a founder. Katie Welch. Katie Welch is leaving Rare Beauty to become the new head of U.S. Brand and Communications on their leadership team in the U.S. At Chanel. At Chanel. I love this because so often our identity gets wrapped into what we do. and like Katie Welch has been known as the CMO of Rare Beauty for a really long time.

Like that's a big role. They have a big company. She's been very front facing. And she's kind of, in my opinion, the person that goes to these like Sephora meetups and things when Selena can. But there is also a time and place where it's like you've done what you can do. And it's time to move on. Yeah.

And so I think just seeing these two women that are not on like they're not CEOs, but they are entrepreneurs. And I think that's another. thing that the best companies do is they really empower the leaders to be entrepreneurs and residents. They don't try to make their roles so defined and like give them this prescription because that just doesn't end up ever working. No, you have to, especially at that level, build a relationship based on trust and knowing that these people can come in and execute and do what they need to do. So it was just like great news all around this week for women, again, reinventing themselves,

taking new risks, moving on and doing great things that are not. not just like, well, I got to like build something from scratch and be the founder and put my blood, sweat and tears into something. Like, and we said this to the girls at Duke as well, go and learn on someone else's dime. Like I make fun of myself so much, but I'm like, babes, I spent and learned on an $18 million budget when I was reporting to a CMO of a company and I was like sponsoring the opening art Basel party, spending millions of dollars a year on out of home, like opening retail stores, and now I know exactly what not to do. And I never would have been able to do that if we had just been an entrepreneur out of school.

But like, everyone glamorizes, building a personal brand, having something when you're in your early 20s. And it's like, I actually don't believe that's how you build longevity. Look at Amy Liu. Exactly. Even Jara, like, she was at L'Oreal for years. And so I just love all of these big moves for women. And I also love, that's why I'm so.

happy that we have women like Seema on the podcast who like, yes, she was an entrepreneur, but she also went into Weight Watchers as a CEO. Like there is a way to be a leader in organizations and not have built it yourself, if that makes sense. Like one day we will hire a CEO for HSR. It won't be either of us. No. I'm fine with that. Okay. When I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids. And I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then It's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my out of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth Advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business,

your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IGPrivatewealth.com. I think we actually have the perfect dynamic right now, though, because we're going through a negotiation, which we're going to be able to share with you guys soon. and it was funny because my husband, who's the chairman of our company officially, was kind of like, I think you need to let Katie do this. And there was a gut instinct inside of me that was like, not that you can't, but like,

I can do it better. And that is the rule. And you can. And I can. And I think that is the role of a CEO is someone who is a visionary, can sell a story, like is able to have a conversation in an empowering yet strong way where it's like we are not shifting from this. And like, I can't do what you can do.

And it was funny because when I told my husband, like, no, like, I'm going to lead the negotiation. He said this. You also need to be talent. MBA players aren't negotiating their contracts, Maggie. They bring in a business manager. They bring in a lawyer to do that for them. And I was like, good thing I'm not an MBA player.

Because I get the relevance to it. But I think my skill set is great for right this second as a CEO. And eventually, I hope HSR is big enough where it's like, it's outgrown me and I can move into more of like a creative role and we bring in someone who actually has that expertise to take us to the next level. Yeah and that was like founder mode. You went founder mode and you were like, this is my business. This is my baby and I know what is best for my baby. Not the like someone else with 30 years of experience in the workplace. It's like no one knows this business better than me and no one can sell this business better than me,

which is you. And honestly, in that conversation, I was like, I now know why this girl was the number one BDR salesperson at Salesforce. Like, she can sell anything to anyone, make them feel good about the deal that they're getting, and sell the business at the same time. I was honestly blown away, which means a lot coming from you who sat underneath like multi-hundred million dollars CEOs as the head of finance. But it is true. And I think like for anyone that's listening and it's been cool to, like we talk about getting feedback from the community. One of the things I've heard a lot about, because it's so far away from you and I now,

we left college over a decade ago, right? I'm like, oh yeah, like over a decade ago. So I'll also forget those like soft skills and like what I would do again. And telling my 21 year old self that just graduated college what I would do, I would go into sales, which is exactly what I did.

I learned so many things that I never had to face before. crazy rejection. I was hung up on all day, every day. I learned something called consultative sales, which is you are not selling features and functions. You are having a conversation with someone and figuring out what is important to them. How can you sell them something that they need? You're never going to be able to do that if you don't know who that person is or what they actually need in their job to do it well. And so I think for me, going back into that 22 year old mindset, it wouldn't be starting my own company. It would be really going into sales and being rejected and getting front facing client

experience. And Courtney and I argue about this all the time in a fun way. But like I wouldn't want my daughter especially, but children to go into investment banking. It would actually be something I would deter them from because I think, yes, it's glamorized and don't get me wrong. Like it does help to have Goldman Sachs investment banker on your resume. However, when you are. at the bottom of the barrel and you are working until 2 a.m. every single night, every single weekend,

you have no client facing opportunities. Let's be real. I don't actually think it breeds the archetype of the person like a Courtney who did start there. I think he's the anomaly. Most people that do investment banking for the first two or three years that I know, they have good lives, good jobs, but they don't have exceptional. That's not the norm. is what I've seen. I wouldn't want my kids to go into investment banking. It's so funny because my father-in-law has always said to my husband, be in the revenue driving function where the action is.

That is the only way you are going to grow in your career and understand how a business works and what makes it tick. The further you get away from revenue driving and the lifeblood of the business, this sounds like kind of bad, but the more irrelevant you become in the business and the less you learn. about how things actually work. And that's like exactly to your point is sales, you're literally tapped into the lifeblood of the business. No sales.

The business is done. Yes. Well, and it's so funny too because you'll see this on the vlog that we're going to put out for Duke, but I had a conversation with one of the interns who's working with Seema about why I would never suggest someone goes into a VC associate role once they graduate. It is the most thankless job at a venture capital fund.

Like you have no power. You usually don't have a vote at IC. You are doing all of the grunt work. And trust me, when a founder gets put onto the phone with a VC associate or analyst, like, they are annoyed because they're like, I now not only have to sell this to you and do all of the diligence that you want and put the data room together. But now I don't even have a decision maker on the phone. And like, I now need to kind of go around you to find someone who's going to champion this

inside of the VC fund. And I actually don't think that startup founders respect VC associates that have never built something for themselves. I mean, absolutely not. And I've heard that from founders so many times when someone comes to a founder and says, hey, I don't really like the way you're doing this or should you think about doing this differently? Or like, let's only think about the next milestone. They're like, do you not understand what I have had to do to get to today? Or like, do you understand anything about actually operating a business and the repercussions of like the one thing you're asking me to change is a ripple effect in like every other aspect of the business. And it's funny because like even,

you know, we don't always put in the biggest checks, but like we do offer value outside of that. And it's been really nice to get feedback from founders of like actually how we've helped their business from making introductions, which is really what VCs do, right? It's like they give you money. They make introductions. And so hopefully your seed investor introduces you to your series A investor, who introduces you to your series B investor. And like, we try to do that, which has been cool to see. But I would just telling those 20-year-old girls that, like, want to be in a similar position, like, it is not going into being a VC associate and it is not going into being an investment banker.

No. But now the other job people need to consider, which is feeding into our next story, are you going to be a creator? And that's also what we talked about with some of these women is, like, the business of being yourself. Well, it's pretty crazy because. So in our first or second episode, we explained what a holding company is. And what creators have done like us is we set up a holding company that basically houses all of the different businesses and entrepreneurial pursuits that we have. So there's like the media business that's underneath our holding company, our investments that underneath the holding company.

Your personal brand. My personal brands that's under the holding company. And Stephen Bartlett just raised at a $425 million valuation. He took in an figure investment from legitimate VCs, including slow ventures. Who Megan has been on this podcast, by the way. Yeah, go back to listen. I think she's in the first, like, top 10. March 5th. I looked it up yesterday.

And she kind of explains what they're looking for and finding creators. And this rocked, I think, the financial world, the creator world, the brand world, because it's something we've talked about for years. And we've also been betting on this happening. But everyone is starting to wake up to the idea that, like, creators have distribution. And Mary talked about this in her episode, but like that is a competitive advantage,

like Haley Bieber, that is hard to replace. The interesting thing if you actually read the details and not just the headline of Stephen Bartlett's investment is this was an investment. It's not like, hey, Stephen, here's an eight-figure investment. Like, go figure it out. He has a plan, the way that any founder would have a plan raising money where it's like they're developing AI tools.

they're replacing something like megaphone for podcasts to be able to see all of their analytics from YouTube, Spotify, and Apple, which doesn't exist. And thank God. Like, they are actually launching real tech businesses out of steven.com. And now they're given the freedom to allocate the investment dollars how they see fit. They are not having to go raise for one specific company at a time, which is just a slog. They're able to take in an eight-figure. investment and then distribute it however they want. I think this is the future, but I also think it goes

back to what we talked about with like Jara and Katie Welch. Like it doesn't have to be for everyone. Totally. And there are people you even included, you were like, I could never do what you do. No. And like, sometimes I try just to see, can I keep up with her? Like how could I do it? I just like never lance. And I think that is the fear when we talk about stuff like the Stephen Bartlett. Like everyone's going to want to go and do that. Yeah. But like it's, the same thing as running a company. Like, do you have a differentiated point of view? If yes, yeah, try it.

See what happens. Fuck around and find out. And I think it's really understanding and knowing yourself, you know? And that's one of the things we also said to these girls. The Duke is like the through line of this whole episode. Shout out to the Duke's Women's Leadership Lab because that was a life changing experience for us too. Which we also, I had said this to the Project Posey Girls, like our wife.

WhatsApp community where we've been incubating a business as part of our HSR Angel chat, you need to be so clear with yourself on who you are as a person. And figuring that out in your early 20s can be very difficult. Especially when you're working in investment banking. Or anywhere. Or in college. Like everyone needs to be so homogeneous the same because if you're anything different, you're like not, you're a target. You're not cool. You're not part of the group. And so one of the lessons, and I think it's like whether you want to be the next Stephen Bartlett, whether you want to be the next Mr. Beast, whether you want to be the next Maggie Sellers, or you do want to be the investment banker. Maybe I want to be the VP of Creative Operations. You need to get so clear on who you are as a person, what you're passionate about, what makes you tick and what you're actually good at. And what you're going to thrive at. Yeah. It's so true. And that is like something I feel like the world and the education system today is not set up for. which we saw at Duke, we've seen it in like ourselves and our path as well. It's like if you're anything other than cookie cutter, the world just kind of doesn't know what to do with you.

Well, it's interesting because even for me, I grew up thinking I was terrible at math. But like when it comes to valuations and numbers and like even for me negotiating this deal, I'm like, I was the one that built that model being like, okay, this is how much equity percentage they're going to have in our company. This is what our company is valued at today. They're going to be, you know, it's like I was told. a story about myself. And I believe that. And I think that's why I do these HSR love notes every day.

And I've done them for years, but I've started sharing them because you are the story you tell yourself. And if you're telling yourself a story that is hurting you or holding you back or has limiting beliefs, like that is what you will become. And so for me, being able to like confidently say like, I am a great negotiator. I am great at business. I am great at numbers. Has helped retrain my brain to be like, I actually am good at math.

I'm just not good at fucking calculus. And that's okay. And that's okay. Like useless. Only rocket scientists needed. And honestly, it was so funny when mom was here two weeks ago and we were on a walk. She was like, I just in high school couldn't understand why I was doing calculus. So I just didn't do it and dropped out.

And like, I was honestly resonating with that where I, I in high school was thinking to myself, why am I doing this? Like, I'm never learning it. Yeah. And I wish the education system would change that like we didn't feel. that way. But start writing these HsR love notes down, start telling yourself the stories that you want to hear because that is really the life that you will have and will become. Yeah. And start figuring out who you are. And by the way, the other thing that it's really important to talk about as this is like

so often when you're starting a new project, you look at other people for inspo. And I think I was the first person to say this, but maybe not. But I was like, become your own mood board. And you were the person that helped me do this because when I was thinking of starting new things, or especially with creative, the podcast cover this. You were the one that was like, go back and look at your past Instagram. Go back and look at your past bedroom. Pinterest. Like what have you authentically been saving that you like versus putting on a cap and

thinking like what would that person like? Like I must create my brand now. Like how should I do it? And it's like going back into what you've authentically been attracted to and done is such an underrated thing to start with when you're starting anything. new and that's pretty much where you'll find all the answers for yourself and hopefully it will look different because every brand is starting to look the same. It is. Yeah. Including people stealing Hotsmer Rich. I'm just kidding. I mean, there's a lot of red floating around. I will say that.

But yeah, I mean, I have loved this conversation. It's been so fun. Katie starts to try to wrap up like something formally. No, I don't know. No, I genuinely, I'm just like, I'm so happy to be back in the share with you. So everyone, we need a petition. We need an actual... One second, let me finish Katie. Okay. I'm the older sister.

People always ask us that and I'm like, I have older sister energy. But we need a petition for Katie to move to the states because basically what we have heard is that people's favorite episodes are with my sister and she will only move if that is true. So everyone comment if this is one of your favorite episodes that I can start to build a business case for my sister

to uproot her family from Canada. and move to Los Angeles. Yeah, we need your votes. Like dancing with the stars. You can text Katie 10 times to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Okay, love you so much. Thank you for listening. Don't forget to rate, review, subscribe, send this to a friend.

And as always, your comments means so much. I love reading them. And hopefully this resonated. And we'll see you next week. Love you, H.S.R. Oh, that was sexy.