Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Jackie Aina: I Block People to Protect My Business "I Have Too Much To Lose"

Episode Date: May 6, 2026

Jackie Aina-Asamoah joins Maggie Sellers Reum to talk YouTube virality, Black women in makeup, dark skin representation, FORVR Mood, luxury, money, NDAs, internet drama and building a fragrance empire! Can you believe Jackie went from being paid $300 a month in the Army to becoming one of YouTube’s biggest beauty voices - at a time when makeup counters didn’t even display her shade! She tells Maggie what happened when she called out brands for failing darker skin, why they had to listen and how it made her career… Jackie also spills on selling 20,000 candles in four hours, why she DOESN’T want a $1B business, never going back to broke, working with her husband Denis Asamoah, blocking trolls, hiding her wedding online, parasocial fans and how you can protect your brand on social media!  #JackieAina #Beauty #Makeup Timestamps: (00:00:00) Intro (00:01:29) Fit Check! (00:02:05) Trap Of Doing Everything (00:02:57) Why Jackie Quit Sweatpants (00:05:35) From Fashion Dreams To Army (00:10:03) Femininity In Masculine Spaces (00:13:45) Betting On YouTube (00:14:07) Going Viral (00:16:27) Beauty Ignored Darker Skin (00:21:01) Stopping People Pleasing (00:24:05) No Posts Regretted (00:24:37) Huda Beauty’s Evolution (00:27:56) Brands Sent Scathing Emails (00:28:32) Why Jackie Took A Break (00:29:55) Shopify Ad (00:30:56) Parasocial Boundaries Online (00:34:13) The Craziest Jackie Rumours (00:35:19) The Queen Of Blocking (00:38:47) Handling Online Backlash (00:40:36) How Brands Should Apologise (00:42:46) Building FORVR Mood (00:46:13) Creator To Founder (00:47:33) Luxury Without Guilt (00:50:07) Jackie’s Money Mindset (00:52:38) Why $1B Isn’t The Goal (00:53:46) Self-Funding FORVR Mood (00:55:36) Pipedrive Ad(00:56:34) PIQUE Ad(00:57:32) Why Jackie Named NDA(01:00:45) Should NDAs Scare You?(01:02:10) What Jackie Keeps Private(01:04:01) Business With Her Husband(01:07:44) Date A First Born(01:09:23) No Laptops At Dinner(01:11:04) Money Talks In Marriage(01:12:53) Talking Money With Partners(01:13:22) Rapid Fire Begins(01:13:28) Last Credit Card Purchase(01:13:37) Jackie’s Most Expensive Purchase(01:13:54) Jackie’s Credit Card Choice(01:14:07) Beauty Or Home Content?(01:14:24) Best Beauty Product Under $30(01:15:12) Fragrance, Candles Or Lifestyle?(01:15:29) Beauty Trends Jackie Hates(01:15:49) Jackie’s Best Beauty Era(01:16:03) Instagram, YouTube Or TikTok?(01:16:35) Jackie’s HSR Love Note(01:17:06) This Season Of Life ⸻ Sponsors Shopify - http://Shopify.com/HSR Pipedrive - http://pipedrive.com/HSR Pique - https://piquelife.com/hsr for 10% off ⸻ Hot Smart Rich: Your Business & Culture Gossip For ambitious women wanting to own the room, gain power, and build wealth. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter: https://hotsmartrich.com/subscribe  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hotsmartrich/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hotsmartrich Maggie Sellers Reum: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maggiesellersreum/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maggiesellersreum LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sellersmaggie/ Locker: https://www.wantlocker.com/users/maggiesellers ShopMy: https://shopmy.us/maggiesellers Amazon Storefront: https://www.amazon.com/shop/maggiesellers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Girl, the way they blew through what we hoped would be six months' worth of inventory in like four hours. I was actually kind of scared. I uploaded my first ever YouTube video in 2009. One of the biggest things was making sure that people like me are seen no matter what space that I move in. That was one of the most eloquent answers I've had. Oh, thank you. Jackie as a child always loved fashion, but my parents said, actually, you're going to be a pharmacist. How did you find your way to then being in the Army?

I know, girl. It's a mess. I'm not even athletic. God forbid you show up to work in a lash. Are there secret rules of success to do well in a masculine environment when you are just a naturally feminine woman? It can be annoying, but you can use it to work a room. You talk a little bit about that. There's still a lot of brands who do not cater to people with darker skin.

But I think about the 17-year-old girl who's going to be deeply, deeply impacted by that. I would much rather make them feel seen than like a CEO who can invite me on their yacht. What is the craziest rumor you've heard about yourself? Oh my God, there's so many. You have self-identified as the queen of blocking. Have you ever felt like you were going to be canceled? Ooh! In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich.

So let's get into it. Jackie Assamois. Yes. Are you ready to get hot, smart rich? I'm so ready. I feel like you came prepared with the fit. Can we quickly just talk about how you got dressed this morning? Actually, I had to get dressed the night before because I'm always late.

So I've become that girl who has to pull the outfit the night. before, yes. Pack. Yeah. It's really like the first day of school all over again. Yes. And I actually didn't even realize it was going to work out because this is my first time we're in the stop.

I got it from the sample sale. Wait, what brand? Alia. Okay. And Alaya sample sale. Okay. Yes. So I literally ripped off the tags this morning, but I pulled it aside last night and I was like,

I know I want to wear this. Let me just see how I like it with the pants. Got dressed this morning and I was like, oh, it's doing exactly what I needed to do. For someone that's listening to this, they just clicked in. They don't know who you are, which would be shocking. especially if you're watching on YouTube, what would you tell them that we're going to talk about today that might surprise them?

I cannot do everything, nor do I want to. I don't want to be looked at as somebody who can do it all. I think by way of what we do, we're often pedestalized by people. We're, like, admired, we're revered. And those are all good things. But I think sometimes, especially for black women, sometimes it can be to our detriment.

So we end up taking on more than we should, professionally, personally, sometimes financially, like knowing, okay, listen, I can't do it all, whether that's in business, whether that's family related. But the things that I can do, I'm exceptional at, and I'm just going to stay in my lane and stay there. Girl, that was one of the most eloquent answers I thought. This is like this is going to be such an incredible conversation. So I think you have inspired so many people in different ways.

We're going to get into all of it. But it was very interesting because today I got my makeup done. I had to for the queen to be here. It's gorge. And my makeup artist was saying, shut out Shottie. She listened to every single episode. She was like, Jackie is the reason I do not leave my house in sweatpants. And that was her New Year's resolution.

Wait, hers? Her New Year's resolution was that she would not leave the house in sweatpants. Did she explain why? No, and so I wanted to ask you. Okay. Why is that? So this was something that I had made content about last year. And it was purely not based on me judging other people.

I was only expressing for myself. I basically told my audience that, like, I don't want my default getting around from point A to point B. And even being at home, I don't want to wear sweats anymore. Like, I'm over it. And I don't want to wear Lulu Lemons, actives either. Like, that's not the stuff that I want to wear when I'm relaxing. And I think the reason for me is because, like, I'm a gym girl.

And so my gym wardrobe is almost as big as my regular wardrobe. But when I'm in the gym, I wanted to look like I went to the gym. And then when I'm not in the gym, I don't want it to look like I'm not in the gym. I don't know. Part of it is kind of like a stay ready so you don't have to get ready type of thing. And it doesn't mean you have to be wearing a lion. It doesn't mean you have to be wearing like Matthew Blazy Chanel suit down. But, you know, like having casual clothes that can get me around that aren't necessarily slouchy, baggy, sweaty. I don't know. I just wanted my day to day to look a little bit more put together. And so I have like silk separates that I like to wear. And honestly, The truth is they do look like pajamas. But it's probably better than, you know, like an activist. So at least for me, it's comfortable with something I can move around in. It looks like an outfit.

I can throw a heel on it. You know, like, I just, unfortunately, I work in a very superficial job. So, yeah, I have to be a little vain. I have to be a little, you know what I mean? Like, this world does not let you get caught slipping, especially for someone who's on camera 24-7. And it's not that I owe people that, but it's more for me. Like, I genuinely feel better when I look a little bit better, you know?

I relate to everything that you're saying, and I don't think that you should apologize for that. Oh, I'm not apologizing that. Yeah. I like that kind of stuff, but that's how I like to inwardly express myself. It's absolutely not something that I impose on other people because sometimes people also try to make me like the poster child of like respectability politics and being polished everywhere you going. I'm like, I don't subscribe to that. I'm just talking about me personally. I love that.

One of the most fascinating things about doing research on you was that you were in the Army. I was. So take me back pre the Army to childhood Jackie. Were you always that way? Did you always lean into your femininity? Did you always like being put together? Like who was Jackie as a child? Jackie as a child always loved fashion.

So I thought as early as like 11, I just knew I was going to go to Fitem and study fashion design and become a fashion designer. My mom was a seamstress, so like some of that rubbed off on me from her. And I loved fashion. I wouldn't call myself put together. We didn't have a lot of money growing up, but I love. And I always loved fragrance, too. Those were my two things. I couldn't really wear makeup.

So it was like, okay, well, I can express myself through clothing and I could smell good. And that was the few things that we could afford to splurge on. And one day, 16-year-old Jackie got the sit-down talk for my parents. So, you know, what are you going to do with your life? And I was just like, you guys know I'm going to fashion school. And they were like, actually, you're going to go to school and be a pharmacist, right? And I was just like, I guess, sure. What?

So my dad's Nigerian and they're very academically driven. So, girl, they didn't even, they weren't even asking me, literally. They were, like, telling me, yeah, like, just kidding, you're not. And I was just like, okay, so I'm going to be a pharmacist. So you went to go to school to be a pharmacist? No, I dropped out. Okay. Eventually.

How did you find your way to then being in the Army? I know, girl. It's a mess. So basically, it's like year two, I'm in college. I went to college here in California, Cal State, San Bernardino, in the hood. that San Bernardino's crazy. And it was like my second year, the second year that I was in college,

my parents split up. They got a divorce. So while they were distracted, I was like, well, now is probably the appropriate time to drop out because I was like failing all my classes. So then this guy was dating at the time had just joined the year before.

I was like venting to him about like life. Like I was going through it. And he was like, why don't you just join the Army? And looking back now, it's like, just joined Army, like, as if that's, like, buying a bag or something. He said it so casually, but I don't even think he was being serious. I think he was just saying, I don't know, I think he was just, like, not really deep in it. So then, like, I got up the moment with him. I'm like, I kind of thought about it.

And I was just like, well, like, dang, like, he gets to, like, travel and he has, like, a steady source of income. Like, it's not really something I want to do. I definitely didn't come from a military family, like, at all. So I didn't really even know what that looked like. Like I didn't know what that. I was like, I don't want to be yelled at. I'm not even athletic. Like, I was like so confused.

But at the end of the day, like, girl, I needed a job. So I was just like, you know what? Maybe I will join the Army. But I was like, but maybe I can join the reserves. I can kind of get my feet wet. So there's like active duty in reserves. There's like National Guard. The difference is basically like part time and full time.

So because I was in the reserve, you basically only work like two to three days out of the month instead of working every day like active duty service moves due. So that's what I did. And it was just a complete 180 of like what I was used to. But girl, I need a job. I needed a job at a place to live. In my notes, you were paid $200 to $300 a month while you were in the Army.

Yeah, something like that. Damn, you guys did some research. We did. It was like 300. Yeah, girl. It was like gas money. So what motivated you to do that versus doing something like hustling at a retail store or maybe working at a restaurant trying to like make, I would say probably significantly more money than $300 a month? Well, I was doing both. Okay. So I was like property of the U.S. Army on that one weekend a month.

And then throughout the remainder of the month, I was still attempting going to school. I was still working whatever retail job or food service job. Like, I still had another job as well. But that was, like, where my, some of my benefits came from. And it was, like, the steadiest source of income, I guess you could say. A lot of women listening to this are going to be able to relate to being in very masculine environments. Are there secret rules of success to be able to do well in a masculine environment when you are just a naturally feminine woman? I could better answer this question now.

that I'm like almost 40, but like when I was in the military, like I was, this was like almost 10, 15 years ago. So I don't think I was like tuned in. Like I was like a glam girl, but I wasn't as in tune with my femininity as much as I am now. And I probably would have a better answer to that question or a better strategy now. But when I was young, I would just show up to work in my uniform, wear makeup, getting dogged out. There's, They're so, they're so, the military is very archaic. They're so, and it's like, go fix me a sandwich, like that vibe. Like, you could just tell some of those men do not even want to talk to and God forbid

your, like, above them professionally. It's even worse. But they were just like, this, the sidebar remarks, they always have something to say, God forbid you show up to work in a lash. Like, they were very judgmental. But I feel like now, I feel like Jackie now would have locked in and, you know, use that to my advantage. Because I feel like in so many different industries, when you're the only, yeah, I can be annoying, but you can kind of like use it to work a room. Like you're more standout.

It's a show more noticeable. It's an opportunity to ask for more. It doesn't mean you're always going to get it because obviously there's gender pay gaps that are still very real. But I feel like now I would have been working the hell out of it. But then I was very miserable. It was hard because just like, and I was also very, I wore my emotions on my sleeve and I was easy to react when I was younger. Whereas now I may hear something, but not react and kind of like revisit it. Like, you know, you hear, you hear something or someone says something or does something, you pocket it and use it to your advantage later on. That's something that I would do now, but I was not, I was just not that. I wasn't that like locked in when I was younger. That's,

Femininity is really truly something I didn't have the privilege of really owning when I was younger because I was basically like a third parent in my family dynamic. So I didn't really learn how to like say yes, I would love some help with that. Oh, no, no, no, no. Or like, I was always doing things on my own

because I was always like brought up to like not rely on people or to be 10 steps ahead of everyone else. But now, especially now that I'm married, like, oh, I have no problem letting someone else pick it up or carry or handle. And yeah, I would have definitely, I'm curious to know how different I would be in the military now versus when I join. But yeah, I'm very different now. What was the moment that got you to decide to leave? The time just came to an end.

So all service members commit eight years minimum. And then because I was a reservist, my contract was six. So I was going to cosmetology school at Sassoon. And then when it ended, I started to see the social media stuff become a bit more lucrative for me. So I was like, you know what? I think I need to give myself a chance to really pursue it. And I'm not going to be able to do that if I'm strapped here

and if I'm strapped here and if I'm still trying to get a job and if I'm still trying to pursue other side quests. So I was like, I'm not going to renew. I'm not going to reenlist. And so I didn't. And you put all of your time and resourcing into building your YouTube channel. After, yeah, right after I left, yeah, I was just like, I'm not even making money yet, but I have to like try. I have to attempt and I have to try.

So it was around that time that I was like, we're going to do this. We're going to do this broke. We're going to do this with question marks. But I just had to do it. I just had to bet on myself. One of the most fascinating parts of your story that I loved was that you didn't upload your first YouTube video until 2009, but your first viral video. wasn't until 2014 or 2015. Yeah.

What kept you going for that six or seven year period when you haven't had that viral success? I don't know, girl, probably a little delulu. You know what? Honestly, I think I was just like enjoying it. Like, I think I was just here for a good time. But I wasn't really putting much thought into, because it was so early in social media's existence,

I had no idea this would be able to be a job for me. I had no idea. I wish I had, I would like to say, like, yeah, I could be, like, way further if I had, like, locked in earlier. But, like, I don't know, like, is that really the point? Like, you're meant to discover things when you're meant to discover things. Maybe I would have been not as serious if I started making money when I was younger. Like, I don't know. I don't know if I would have trusted that, Jackie.

I don't know. That might be a little scary. So I constantly try to tell myself, don't question God's timing because, like, you meant so, you know, yeah, it's serious. you almost half a decade to lock in and finally start making livable wages, but it happened for reason. But honestly, the simple answer, like, I was literally just like not taking a series and just enjoying it, just building community, which was actually my favorite part. The community came first, and they stayed. And then when the money came, they pretty much were like not going to, they were like a package deal. So that was also nice. Actually, that's probably the way the common

creator works now is, yeah, you can go into it knowing you make money, but like I didn't have the hindsight of knowing I was going to make money doing it. So I think some people feel like there's a different element of trust baked into that. It's like, oh, she was here before she knew this was going to be a job. So I think that's kind of, that's kind of cool, you know, like that's kind of admirable. Not that you shouldn't be motivated by money. I'm definitely not one of those women who's like, you should do it for the five. No, we live in a capitalist society, honey. Like, you have to make money. This is a job. It is a job. Equipment ain't cheap, all these lights.

So it's okay to be motivated by money, but, you know, my story was just a little different. So I was having fun. I was just not, I was honestly not taking a series at all. You started really making videos for an audience and a community that wasn't being spoken to. I'm interested in your take on how you've evolved your storytelling from that first video in 2009 and talking to that community to how you position a common enemy today where the beauty industry has evolved so much to be able. bit more inclusive. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, I actually kind of feel like that journey was very fluid. Like it sort of shifts throughout the years, but the underlying goal is relatively the same. So when I first got on YouTube, which I was not interested in

whatsoever, by the way, I did not like being on camera. I was working as a makeup artist. And makeup artists are kind of like not really used to being seen. Well, they are now. Like we have Mario, we have Denessa. The girls are like outside, but, you know, the era that I come from, you were kind of like, your work was seen, but you were not really seen. So I just wasn't really interested. But I definitely did feel like I would be more incentivized with the way that I wore makeup. I didn't see a lot of that on YouTube at the time.

So another reason why, like, outside of like having fun part and, like, building community, one of the biggest things that got me on the platform was the fact that I was just like, okay, well, I'm going to take these looks, and I'm going to take these trends, and I'm going to show you how you do it on dark skin. Because I got so sick and tired of, like, going to makeup counters and then tell, they would literally, like, grab product out of my hand

and be like, no, not for your complexion. Like, it was, the early 2000s was a mess. I know we love nostalgia, but the early 2000s was a literal mess. They would literally snap stuff in my hand, like, girl, that ain't for you. And there were times where I would walk up to a counter, and I would see them, like,

pulling out the dark foundations, like, from behind the gondola as soon as I walked. So it's like, so you weren't even going to like offer it until I walked in. That's nuts. Like, it was not even worthy of being on display. That's wild. So, yeah, the industry has changed a lot.

And so I started by basically centering those exact conversations. And so those experiences, like, they're not as common as they used to be. They're still prevalent. Unfortunately, they're still prevalent. There's still a lot of brands who do not cater to people with darker skin. And you know what? A part of me, now that. So much has changed. A part of me is like, you know what? If I'm not for you, then you ain't for me.

So maybe like 15 years ago, if a brand wasn't as diverse, like I would have specifically called that out. Whereas over the years, I started also talking about, okay, well, the problems keep happening. Who are you hiring? Who, you know, how does your brand behind the scenes also reflect the products yourself? Because like, yeah, making money is great. Everybody's motivated by business. but are you hiring in an equitable fashion? You know what I mean? Like, are you giving these opportunities to people who look like me behind the scenes too?

So that's also how conversations around the beauty industry as a whole would shift over the years. And then now, it's literally 17 years later, it's like we can't keep, I mean, I don't want to keep having the same conversations because for that 10 years, I did a lot. Like, when I tell you, if a brand sent me a product,

they would be on like pins and needles, like shaking, scared, of what I was going to say in a review. And it's not that I don't think that work is important and 1,000% is, but I don't feel like I need to keep talking about the same things over and over again and I also have a brand myself.

So in a way, like, I'm giving you free consult by doing that too. I would much rather focus on brands that are already servicing people who look like me and I want to continue having conversations about how people who not just look like me, but who are often overlooked in general, are not being represented in general by brands.

So, and like in both positive and negative ways. Like, like when I started doing lifestyle content and when me and my husband launched Forever Mood, I really wanted like the point of view of, because black people are obsessed with fragrance, especially Africans. We love fragrance. It's very culturally tied. But I didn't really feel like in the fragrance world, there was a lot of representation there either.

So, and like luxury spaces, a lot of times black women aren't included. A lot of times African attiliers are not included. Like, those are the conversation. So it's like still the same why? Like, still making sure that people like me are seen no matter what space that I move in. Looking back at your life, has there ever been an era where you've been at people, pleaser? Oh, God, yeah. Like, the way that I am now is like night and day from how I was in my early 20s, night and day. Well, and the reason I ask that is because I think a lot of people see bad behavior

and they excuse it and they either are just trying to protect their reputation or they're afraid of the repercussions. And I think what I'm trying to learn from you because I actually need to learn this is when you see bad behavior and you're about to post something publicly about that behavior, because it is warranted and it does need to be talked about. And who's to say that these brands that have embraced inclusivity would even be doing that if people like you hadn't talked about the bad behavior publicly? How did you learn to not be a people pleaser anymore and be able to post a video and call it a brand as big as a tart or a two-face back in the day when like all you had was a YouTube

channel? Like you didn't have your supportive husband. You didn't have the brand that you had built. You didn't have even the community that you have today. Yeah. It's like, do it scared. Do it scared. If you feel, no, this is not okay. This is not acceptable. And this was before, I don't want to say it was profitable to be diverse, but in a way, yes, it was. But it was when it was still very much so you could get blackballed. And I was making that content and I was doing that work. But at the end of the day, like I had to be able to sleep at night knowing that I have an audience of people who, saw me before brands did and I would much rather make them feel seen than like a CEO who can invite me on their yacht. Like that's cool, but like so many other people have yachts booth and they do it by seeing people that you're ignoring. So it just, there's levels to it though.

I'm not going to say that I came right out of the gay swinging. No, it definitely like like as I built, as I got more followers, as I built up more trust, I think I got more emboldened. it wasn't like day one. I was just like ripping. You know what I mean? Like I would make notes and comments and I'd be like, oh, that's not a shade that works in me. I'm not happy with that.

I was vocal, but over the years as I felt, as I got more emboldened, then I got more comfortable. Like, as I started to feel like my position was safer. And also, is your position ever really safe? I don't know.

Like, I don't know the answer to that. You know, or at least I didn't know the answer to that 10 years ago because I didn't know where the industry was going at that point. but I just had to do what I feel was right, but I was always professional. I was always professional.

So it wasn't like I would say this is trash, this is da-da-da-da. I would sit down and I would say, this is what I don't like. This is what you could have done better. And at the end of day, if they like it, great. If they don't, then, I mean, I have to do my, this is my job.

You know what I mean? This is my job. So I just led with professionalism and with honesty. Was there ever? host that you regretted? I can't say there is one at all in the single, nope, I said what I said. Even when people have tried to give me blackballed, even when I've gotten some not so nice

letters to my management and my agent, no, you did it. So why are you mad that I'm talking about it? No, I don't regret anything at all, not even looking at a single, no, there isn't a single one that I'm like, oh, like, I don't even know if there's anything I could have done better because I've always been professional. No, like, I don't feel the way at all, no. Is there a brand that you think has evolved, like, truly genuinely from taking criticism and is genuine in their approach to diversity today?

Actually, yeah. I have a really good example of this one, and it's a brand found that I'm now friends with. So, Huda Beauty. I love Huda. But I ain't going to lie. I used to be kind of on her neck. I hear for a lot of Huda's antics in the infancy. of her brand.

But actually, so I followed Huda before she launched Huda I was like a day one because I used to live in the Middle East so I was kind of like boots on the ground. Like I knew about Huda before the girls in the U.S. really knew about Huda. And I was a fan then, loved her work.

She was huge. She already had an empire in like 2011. Like she was big. So I was already a fan. I was always following her. But there were some things I wasn't really like really fond of. Like she didn't really, in my opinion, in my professional opinion.

So there was this thing, like, Instagram used to have these, like, repost pages and they wouldn't really post their own work. They would post, like, other people's glam work in their pictures and stuff. So that's kind of, like, how Huda Beauty's page got to where it was now. And, like, I really didn't think they, in the early stages,

did a good job at representing darker-skinned black women very positively on the page. And I was very vocal about that. And then when she started the, right over the time when she started the brand, it was just lashes, and then they moved into the complexion category. And everybody knew that if a brand launched a complexion category, they pretty much came to me to get the thumbs up or the thumbs down.

So when she launched complexion, I reviewed it, I featured it, I talked about it. And it was very clear to me that, at least from what I saw, it was very clear to me that with the start of that product, they were trying to change the tides of how they previously, I think, I think they made a conscious effort to include everyone. So I thought that was really admirable. And then over the years, as she continued to like come out with more product launches, it was like, oh, this isn't just like a one-off, this isn't just like a gimmick.

Like, she really pulls up. She really represents a wide range of people when she launches stuff. So, yeah, I was just kind of like quietly peeping. And, like, I really admire that about her because I've been critical of her and they've never sent me a scathing email. They've never threatened me. They've never, like, retaliated, never. And now they, like, I recently went with them to Paris last year. Like, I have a great working relationship with Mona, also the founder of Kali.

Like, we're really good friends, actually. They're really sweet, very supportive. But it was a, I guess, natural and organic friendship that originally came from me kind of being, like, not here. for it. I was just like, listen, the girls are saying this, and when I started noticing things, I was when I started talking about it. But, like, I really do think she's done a excellent job at, like, not getting, one, she doesn't get online and be defensive and clap back at people when they were saying these things about her, which I think is good. And she just quietly did the work to change the trajectory of the brand and, like, represent and see people. I admire that.

I really do. You just said that they didn't send you skating emails or threats. Have you gotten not from other brands? Girl. Sometimes they would send me emails when I didn't even say anything. Like if my followers were dragging them on my behalf, they would treat me like I was the ringleader of it. And I'm like, I don't know if you think there's like a secret group chat somewhere. Like I don't, why, why am I responsible for what they're saying? Like what? Why am I cash estu-a-strays? Yes, there's been several. Yes, several. 1,000 percent. Is this what, let's be? Is this what you to take a break from social media for a full year?

No, I think it was probably COVID, that kind of like spearheaded. Because it felt like a weird time post makeup tutorials. Nobody was going nowhere. So it was like, what am I even, what's the point? Why am I doing a wear test? Waring it where? Like, I don't, like, this is awkward. It just felt a little like, oh, this is weird.

And, you know, that was around the time when I realized, like, I've also never taken a break from YouTube. So that was when I was like, you know what? I experienced what I didn't realize at the time, but I was definitely experiencing burnout, like a creative burnout of like constantly on an upload schedule. I mean, I was uploading like twice a week for basically. So, you know, you said my first viral video was 2014.

So once I got that, I was like, I'm never putting the camera down. And I was basically uploading like two to three times a week up until 2020 without stopping, which is nuts. No producer, mind you, no producer. Just an editor. So I was the talent. I was the script writer.

Sometimes in my videos were scripted. Most times they weren't. I was also the producer, technically, the videographer, and the maker artist for like six years. No break. No time off. No, nothing. We don't talk enough about how hard setting up a business actually. is. It feels like you're fighting a new battle every single day. And then once you've solved that

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slash HSR. That's Shopify.com slash HSR. What did taking that break teach you about parisocial relationships that we have today. Oh gosh. That is a very jarring topic for me. But you know what? I also have like a unique, I feel like I have like a unique

point of view on parasycial relationships because for the most part, in the time that I was doing my makeup content for at that point, well over a decade, I really only talked about makeup. So there was nothing else. Like my relationship wasn't the content.

My personal life definitely wasn't the content. You never saw my house. You really only saw me from like the collarbone up. So it was really easy to maintain. And yet I still somehow built a, honestly, I feel like it's kind of a slave though. Because like I built a community of people who were like locked in, but I didn't have to like lose myself and getting that. And that to me was like a flex that I feel like a lot of people really struggle with because

they, you know, like, we live in the era of like oversharing and like if that's someone else's vibe, listen, if you like it, I love it. But it was never going to work for me. It was never going to work for me. But I'm so blessed that I was still able to build the community that I have without having to do that. You know what I mean? And so 2021, 2020 and 2021 was writing.

around the time I started doing more lifestyle content. So it was a little uncomfortable for me when people, but I went into it knowing like, okay, if you start posting this, you have to expect some level of, you know, like interest in a different way that people haven't seen you. So that I understood. But to answer your question, the parasycial part, as it started to get more intense, I was like, I really struggled with that because I was just like, wait, like, I only give this. So like, why are you? over here. Like, it was really an adjustment for me for sure, 1,000 percent. And honestly, I'm going to lie something that I'm still kind of like, who, not too much. Not too much.

Because I give, and I feel like I give a good, well-rounded, personable type of content. So it's like, well, if this is what I'm giving, you can't demand more of me. That's what I'm going to give. And I feel like I give a lot. So thinking before you speak, that's also another tip. One of my pet peeves when I'm watching a podcast or when I'm watching a public speech is hearing um, um, um, every other sentence. So when I'm speaking, instead of saying um as

like a filler word, I stop and think. But then the byproduct of that is that I can give a more thoughtful answer. So that's one of the things that I have really kind of mastered over the years is just pausing, taking a quick beat, think about what I want to say, think about how I want to answer it. No one's going to judge you for being silent. Like, you're just thinking, you know what I mean?

You're just processing, internalizing. And then if I do that, I'm less likely to overshare when I'm responding to something. Or ramble or spilling. Well, I do be rambling. I do talk. Girl, I don't know if you can notice. But, like, I'm less likely to just blur out anything without thinking if that makes sense. What is the craziest rumor you've heard about yourself?

Oh, my God. There's so many. That I bought my own engagement ring, which is nuts, because what the hell? What do I look? Please. I don't know what strain. You got to be smoking to even think that, but absolutely not. You know, it's also interesting.

It's stuff that, like, most times ain't even about me. Like, it'll involve, like, my sisters or, like, my husband. Like, it's never really something that reflects me. It's weird. Or, like, me and my husband, we had, like, a long engagement. And over the years, there were these, like, floating rumors that he refused to marry me. And I was just like, based on what? Like, I'm confused.

That one kind of threw me because it's like, it's one thing if a rumor snowballs from something else that's like a truth. But like most times they come from literal dinner and I'll be so confused. I'm my housewife. I'm not on Bravo. I'm not on peacock. So I just be so confused where some of these I'm just like, I'm confused. Who are the sources?

I don't know. Well, one of the things I found so interesting about the research call that my team did with you was that you have, self-identified as the queen of blocking. Oh, absolutely. And you have the most amount of users blocked as possible on your TikTok. One thousand percent. So how, when did that become a strategy for you to start blocking people based on the parissocial relationships going from wanting makeup tutorials to now having crazy rumors being made up about yourself? I just, okay, I just feel like I turn into one of these figures that people, expected a lot out of at one point,

like way more than they would expect from other people. And so people would just talk to me all kinds of crazy. And crazy in a way that was like, this is not even like, I would get comments that were not even like constructive. You know what I mean? Like people, you're online. Like you're on TikTok. People online can be mean for sport, like for fun.

Or just to get you to react or just to rile you up or just to say someone's over responded to me. Like, I started to realize, like, oh, this is not even like coming from a genuine constructive. Like, you just want attention. And I think once you identify that, it becomes easier to, one, not take it personal. But also, two, I actually block people because I'm doing them a favor. Because if I respond, I'm going to cuss you out. I'm going to cuss out your bloodline. I'm going to call your university. Like, I'm actually doing you a favor by not reacting the way that I really could because I might slaughter you. Like, I might really hurt your feelings. Now, I don't have a plan, Maggie.

Like, I can't, like, I have too much to lose. I have too much to lose. And user 943-88-1,000, infinity will never be worth it. So I would just rather spare myself and spare the other person, because really, like I said, I'm doing them a favor. I just, I just block them. And it's like, I don't really need the engagement that bad. Some creators, they'll lead the comments because they know that it gets, I don't need the

engagement that bad. I love what I do and I want to continue to enjoy what I do. So I just lack and move on. on. I had someone, Collins Key, I'll call him out. He's a huge YouTuber. He is in YPO with my husband. And he said to me when I was starting to go online and starting to get these comments, he goes, your social media is your storefront. And if someone came up to your physical storefront and put a sign on the door that said your product suck, you would take the storefront sign down. Because that is the user experience of someone going to your store. So don't even feel bad about blocking people and deleting comments because your social media is your storefront. And I have never thought about it. That's so good. In the same way. That's actually so good.

But you know what also that reminds me is that it's not only your storefront, but again, I'm really big on community. So think about like someone writes a comment and maybe it's racially fueled. Maybe it's really disgusting. Maybe they're talking about my hair. Maybe it's anti-black. Maybe it's a really problematic comment. I think about the 17-year-old girl who's going to see that or a young boy.

or 25-year-old or 30-year-old who might be deeply, deeply impacted by those comments or by those, you know, by that, those negative comments as well. So, yeah, I actually like that analogy because it's not just for me as the owner of the storefront, but like the patrons, you know, the people of the community. I don't want them to see that garbage either. So take it down. So I love that analogy. That's perfect. Have you ever felt like you were going to be canceled? Not like, not really, no.

I mean, like, I've been dragged. It's like every of the month now. But no, not really, no. Can you take me to the moment where you see yourself getting dragged or getting backlash? How do you feel? You know, it's only weird when, like, I don't see it coming when it comes out of thin air. So the most bizarre one was after our wedding. There were people saying that I blocked them for congratulating me after my wedding, which was not true.

I didn't post about my wedding. So I think what they were trying to insinuate is that I didn't want people to talk about it or something. I don't know. It was very strange. But basically, I got married. And the moment we got engaged, me and Dennis were like, hey, like, I'm not going to be your 20, 24 bride.

Like, I'm not posting none of this shit. Like, I said right out the gate, like, I'm not publicly documenting my wedding. And Dennis is not really an influencer. So he's very much on the same page. And so I just changed my name one day on socials. And so naturally they realized like, oh my God, she got married and people were really excited.

It was really cute. Someone wrote a crazy comment on one of my TikToks. I deleted that person and blocked them. That person made a video and basically lied and said, I don't remember what the comment was, but they basically said, oh, I just congratulated her and she blocked me. So then, you know, the internet loves,

they love taking something and running with it. So then naturally I was getting trolled. congratulations, it was like, okay, guys, we get it. But like, I'm not walking people for congratulating me. So that was bizarre. But I just didn't feel the need to respond to it. So I just kind of was like, all right. Having been online for almost two decades now, would you recommend if a brand is going

through controversy or pushback or backlash, they give a statement or they kind of just like keep posting, put your head down. Obviously, if there's legalities involved, different. situation, but if it's more just consumer feedback and community feedback, what is your recommendation? Yeah. As a brand, I do think you need to, I do think you need to acknowledge it, especially if something's done that hurts a community or offends a particular community, I do think there is so much power in acknowledging it, apologizing for it if it's necessary. And moving on. And you know what? You got to be willing to admit.

This apology is not going to make people get off your neck. But sometimes that's not the point. You still should do it just to say you did it and move on and allow people to feel the hurt that they are experiencing, depending on how bad the offense is. Because sometimes I've seen some brands do some crazy things. And I've been, like, shocked at the lack of, like, intentionality they put behind responding to it.

And it really does cause a severe lack of trust as a consumer. because me and you, like, even as founders, we're still consumers as well. So it's like, yeah, not even as a founder. Like, as a consumer, I wouldn't patronize your business because what on earth is this? This is just if you don't put out a statement or if you respond to backlash in a really lackluster, unmeaningful way, to me that signals this is not a brand. I can trust to not do this again. I can give my money to anybody else. There's so many brands now.

I just saw your post this week. on the podcast page that women-owned businesses are like 40% of the U.S. economy right now. That's so impressive. I love that for me and I love that for you because now, to me, it's like, well, if you mess up, I could just go get my money to someone else, especially another woman. We vote with our dollars. 1,000%. You are obviously now a founder, which even I love the way you just said it.

You're like, girl, I'm a founder. I have way too much to lose. talk to me about your community and what they wanted. Because my assumption, if I was an investor and you would come to me pre your brand and you were like, I want to launch a brand, my first thought would go to like an inclusive makeup complexion brand where it's like you've built this amazing reputation in as a thought leader. And I'm interested in the community and forever mood and how you got to starting specifically first with candles.

Now obviously you've evolved quite a bit. talk to me about the decision that went through in your head of like, I have this community, I want to service them, and I'm going to go this direction and not what maybe people are expecting of me. Yes, it was a really pinnacle moment for me professionally because you're right. When we first started teasing that I was launching a brand, I didn't come right out and say what it was, but naturally everybody's go-to response or expectation was makeup because that was what I was known for. But the thing is, is I honestly genuinely thought Forever Mood was going to be like a passion project of mine. I had always, always wanted to have a fragrance brand. Years before we had launched it, we had already been talking to manufacturers, we've been talking to fragrance houses, we've been talking to incubators, I've been telling my team. I genuinely thought it was going to be a side quest.

I never thought it was going to be the main gig. Like, I thought it was going to be something that I did just because I genuinely, genuinely, genuinely left fragrance. And then I was thinking makeup line, but it just wasn't, there was other things behind the scenes that were working. I'll put it that way. But yeah, girl, when I launched it, I was just like thinking really small. And me and my co-founder husband, Dennis, we thought we had like six months' worth of

inventory. So we honestly really went into it thinking very modestly, like thinking like, we'll crawl before we walk. We'll get this amount of product. Girl, the way they blew through what we hoped would be six months' worth of inventory in like four hours, 20,000 candles to paper. I was like, oh, this isn't a passion project. I was actually kind of scared. I was like, oh, my God, like we don't have nearly all of in place what we,

what we thought we were going to need. Like we, girl, we had to just completely restructure everything. Like we had to just like jump full in at that point. And it's literally only been on running upwards since then. But I genuinely, in my heart of hearts, thought it was going to be a fun little, like, I thought it was going to be like a fun little side gig. Like I don't, I no longer believe that side gigs,

when you start a brand, you have to really think like this could also be, a Fortune 500 company boo. Like, you got to think bigger. But at the time, I was like, it's going to be fun. It's going to be cute. Changed a lot since then. But, yeah, I was thinking much more small. You've said that shifting away from being known as a creator first

to being known as a brand founder is actually a very difficult change in people's perception of you. What do you think it takes for people to really think of you as a founder first? and not a creator. You know what? I think consistency. And also I've definitely, like, I'm really struggling with YouTube right now. I know my manager is going to kill me when she sees this.

But I've had to pull back in some areas because I don't have a choice. You know what I mean? And I think that signals to people, oh, priorities are shifting. And showing up in different spaces. So, like, I do more public speaking now. I take on more opportunities like this more now, too. because I love being able to talk about behind the curtain.

Like, I feel like people love that kind of stuff. You know, they get to see like, oh, okay, like if she can do it, if you can do it, I can do it too. But like, you have to be consistent through that. You can't, you know, one month be just the YouTuber and then the net, you know what I mean? Like you really have to follow through

and continue to show the audience, the community, the team that this is the new area you're moving into. But I think it also takes time. Like it's not something that can just snap your fingers and accomplish, but it does take time. I'm so interested because this is actually a challenge I phase a lot myself for someone who's, like, worked really hard and can reap some of the benefits of it. You have talked very openly about how you had no money growing up. Like you were working in the Army for $200, $300 a month.

And now you've been able to work your ass off to be able to afford a lifestyle that, like, you are so proud of. Yet you make products at an accessible. price point for the masses. How do you balance that relationship with your community of like living a luxurious aspirational life and then making products and selling products to people that are very accessible? Forever Mood is what I would consider like Mastiche. So it's right in the middle. It's not mass. It's not like full blown like highest price tier. It's right in the middle. When we created the brand, I didn't want to compromise fragrance quality. Like I wanted to I wanted the brand to have a specific visual and aesthetic.

It is technically considered a luxury brand, but it's accessible, like you said, accessible luxury. And that was important because I was like, well, I'm ready to bring it. Like my point of view on fragrance, I knew that it was going to require a bit of an investment on our part, but then also on the customer. So I wanted to keep that top of line, top of priority. And to answer your question about like,

how do I manage and balance the difference between Jackie, you know, 15, 20 years ago versus Jackie now? Well, I mean, we love a self-aware queen. Like, I ain't broke. And I can't pretend to be broke. Because this is not, this is not from she and boo. Like, I can't, like, I don't know. Like, I can't, you know what I mean? Like, I can't stand.

Like, everybody says they love authenticity, right? But, like, what does I actually look like? So why would I come online pretending to be like, oh, my God, I'm just scraping. Like, I'm not. I'm not, but I'm also, I'm also not going to shove it in your face, but I'm going to show up authentically as I am. And it's okay. Like, I don't feel guilt about building the life that I have now because I'm for damn sure and not going back to Brooke. So there's that.

And I don't think women should feel guilt about building something. But there's so much judgment online. Ooh, with women. Ooh, if you start making a little bit of money. Oh, my God. There's so much judgment. But then it's sad because it's like, well, if you've ever experienced poverty, you don't want to see other people experience that, ever. Even if it makes you feel better, I don't want to see anybody else ever experience what I went through ever, even if I was still in it.

So I think it's just acknowledging this is who I am where I am now. And you'd actually be surprised there's a community of people who like content like mine. They see it as aspirational. So I feel like as long as it's not exploiting anyone, as long as it's not hurting people's feelings, I feel like anything is fair game. You know, as long as it's, as long as it's not demeaning people, then, yeah, like I love doing luxury unboxings.

I'm not going to do them every time I buy something luxury, but there is an audience of people who really do like that, and they know my life has changed, and they're extremely supportive of it. And I also give back a lot. So I love seeing my community pouring back in. And that's really, really important to me because so many people have done that for me, too. How do you think about money today?

Love it. That was fast. Love. What is your attachment style to money? It's not my motivator, but it is, I mean, it's definitely required to maintain the quality of life that I want. Yeah, like, I'm going to be honest. Like, I'm Nigerian. I was not destined for the broke life I was born into.

And literally all my middle names, all my Yorba, that's my dad's tribe, all of them translate to wealth, every single one of them. And I have like four of them. I have a very long name. But I love money. I don't think you should be apologetic about liking money. I don't. This answer probably very depending on who you ask. I don't think you should be motivated by money because then you don't have standards and then you'll do anything for it.

But I'm not shy about it. asking what I'm worth or paying someone else to do that, my manager and agents. Yeah, it's extremely important to the quality of life that I want. And I think it's extremely important to just getting by, having resources, having health insurance, not having an overdrafted accounts, being able to pay rent. Like, I used to have to juggle, pay my Wi-Fi so I can upload YouTube videos because if I upload YouTube videos, then I could get AdSense money and have more money or rent. I would have pay Wi-Fi. because Wi-Fi is how I pay the rent.

Rent's going to be late, you know? I have to make those decisions now. Thank God. But I worked really, really hard for that. So, yeah, money is pretty important. And I also, you know, I feel like it's also important to say, like, there's a certain quality of money that I'm also not willing to aspire to. Like, I personally don't have aspirations to build Forever Moon into a billion-dollar company.

And I say all the time, I have much lower standards. I feel like $100 billion is great. Like that's nothing to sneeze at. Like $100 million, I'd be good. A billion. I don't know if I'm willing to do what that would require because I know it would take a lot. I know what billion dollar companies look like.

And I don't, I think my husband would, but like I don't, I can't work that hard. I have to say from an investor perspective, lens, having the aspiration to not build a billion dollar consumer brand is actually where you will find success. Because we are kind of over the era where when there was those direct-to-consumer darlings and we were building these billion-dollar brands and funneling VC money into them, they just like never could get there. And it was all the smoke and mirrors of like acquiring customers with this crazy VC money. And then you're left holding the bag at the end of the day because the industry shifted so much. with you and money as it relates to the company,

you guys made a very conscious decision to not raise money from other people, other investors, and to self-finance things yourself. How do you think about that and do you think your decision will ever change? Oh, it's absolutely changed. We've talked to investors. Nothing is just ever materialized.

It's extremely hard for black-led, black-founded brands, but also women. founded brands as well. I'm not going to lie, I have it very lucky because he's the co-founder, so he's almost like the face of in a lot of ways. Your husband. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm like, I'm technically like the face, but it's still very like manly. Like there's just so much like mansplaining and like it's still, you know, you know this industry. It's still so male dominated that it is actually extremely. And the great thing is that his background is also

finance. So thank God. He alleviates a lot of stress of my end. He's the person who's translating for me and explaining what this means. And this means like the word VC was very new to me before we started forever mood. Now I understand like what things like equity look like and like what all of these terms mean. But like having him to help navigate that with me has been so helpful. And yeah, we absolutely are open to investment. We just haven't found something that makes sense. Because I know that we both know we don't just want someone who will write a check. We want someone that will kind of roll out their sleeves with us. Maybe not every day, but like, you know, I would want some strategy.

I would love some expertise. I would want some mentorship. And I know he desires that too. Because you can give us the money. And then we think we're using it the way that we can maximize or get the most out of it. But what if we're not? What if we make mistakes? I would love the guidance.

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If you'd like to give it a try or get 10% off-peak for life, head topeaklife.com slash hsr. Cheers. One of the things that's so interesting is when you go, you go. from creator to entrepreneur, you're forced to be into this world of acronyms and things you don't understand. And that's why I love so much one of the names of your fragrance is called NDA. First, can you explain what an NDA is and why it was important to you to call something that women are going to be consuming in a business term that might make them feel less intimidated when they hear something like that?

So a non-disclosure agreement is basically, a paper that you sign when you're going into business with someone, or I have people sign NDAs when they come to my house. You know, it depends on what the transaction is. It's basically just saying like a clean agreement that says you're being trusted with trust and information, don't disclose it to anyone else, this stays between you and I. There's so many different terms or conditions you can add to an NDA, but it's basically just like a written agreement that says, keep your mouth shut. Basically, in layman's terms, forever mood, The whole idea with every product is we want every product to like kind of tell a story

because what I found in my experience and like loving fragrance and being a fragrance consumer is that like everybody interprets vanilla differently, everybody could interpret citrus differently. But if I describe to you the vibe or if I paint the picture in a name, that I find sticks more with fragrance way more than me just telling you what. the notes are. So another example I'll give you is we have a scent that's called You Remind Me. It's actually one that I gave you. And it's a clean second skin. So it literally, it's a musk. So it smells less like a literal person and more like someone's body chemistry, if that makes

sense. And musk can shift depending on who's wearing it. It's also the scent that I got married in. So it's a very like clean and I wanted people to be reminded. of something or someone. So that's why I called it, you remind me. So with NDA, the notes are like spiced rum, tobacco. I think there's also... Vanilla bean. Vanilla bean.

I think there's also Jasmine. It's like in tobacco flour. So it's like smoky and it's also creamy. It's just, it's masculine and it's feminine. It just smells like a scent that you would smell on somebody who is kind of polar. rising, like someone who would make you sign an NDA just for a lunch date. Like the vibe. Or to come over to their house.

Or to come to their house. The vibe and the energy was supposed to kind of give, like, big Chanel shades, like, wolf, like, wolfer tights in a blazer, you know, wardrobe, NYC girl, the Alleyer Girl, like just someone who just doesn't necessarily want to be for everybody, someone who would make you sign an NDA for the most minuscule stuff, like bossy, maybe a little closed off, maybe a little unapproachable. Those are some of the words that I thought of when I would smell that scent,

and that was why I gave it an NDA. I love that so much, and it's kind of why we do the show is to, like, democratize this access and this information. And I have been in so many meetings with people where they've been like, here's the NDA. For someone that's hearing a bit on NDA for the first time,

should they be scared? No, are people scared of NDAs? Yes. Wait, really? Why? Yes. Well, I think it immediately, and like, this is another thing we talk about a lot on the show is power dynamics, right? And I think when you're with, especially when you're entering into a new world and these people are using acronyms and they're using all these big things, you're kind of like immediately in this place of, you remember what it's like when you did your first few deals for YouTube? You do it for free because you want the exposure and you do it for product. And then you get to a certain point where you're like, this is my rate. I don't do something without that. It takes a lot of time. It takes that exposure. And so I think, the first time you probably see an NDA, you're in that position of, like, is this person a lot higher in their power, in their status? And you almost, not that you'll ignore your morals or your values, but you're almost do things that you might not otherwise do when, like, you have points on the board, right? I see what I'm saying. Yeah.

So one of the things that, like, I'm so fascinated with, with your community, with your fans and the boundaries that you have with them is like, what do you show them about building the brand and the business? And then what is just something that's like just for you and your internal team? Oh, I mean, a lot is just for me in the internal team. I love talking about the process of like a scent story, like how many times a scent has evolved until from inception or like ideation to like launch. Like I like to share creative stories and things like that and creative evolution behind the scenes type stuff. But I don't necessarily make. my team of Fort Front on Socials because it's like I don't want them to feel required or obligated to do that.

So those things are kind of off limits. We don't really talk about like our like how much revenue we've accumulated. In the first year, we somewhat did like Shopify. They give you like a 100,000 orders plaque. I think they have like different milestones. So, well, I guess you can't even really calculate that either. because we have multiple skews. But we shared that.

So, like, obviously 100,000 times our lowest selling product. You can roughly guesstimate, you know, and that was, like, years ago. So since then, we've obviously, we've done a lot more. But we definitely don't like to talk about the revenue part because also sometimes people think, well, if your brand, and I'm just throwing this number out there out, this is not for us. But if your brand made a revenue of, like, $50 million, they think I have $50 million. in my Wells Fargo Bank account, no, it doesn't work that way.

So I try to, like, separate the two because especially as I'm a creator, sometimes people don't have the ability to separate forever mood from Jackie. So I keep the hard numbers aspect very separate. Because otherwise, then people get a little too excited and they, you know, yeah, no,

I keep that separate. You talked a little bit about keeping your teammates behind the scenes. Yeah. You obviously started this business with your husband. And I'm very interested because you have navigated a divorce.

Experiencing a relationship firsthand that can fall apart, what gave you the confidence to start a business with your now husband? Oh, it was really hard. But I also think some of the comfort started

when we first started dating. And then this was like, I had a manager then, if I remember correctly. I did have a manager. Actually, I think, he helped negotiate my contract with my manager. He just started suggesting little things like, oh, who reads your contracts. And I don't even think I had anybody reading my contracts. And so

he would ask me questions. And of course, I was doing what old Jackie would do. I got it. Being like, oh, this is not. Because mind you, I had to explain to him what a YouTuber was when we first started dating. He had no clue what this job was. He was fully in Morgan Stanley's world. He had no, and it's also not from here. He's British. So it was even more. more of a learning curve for him. He didn't know who Jacqueline Hill was, Michelle Font. Like, he didn't know none of them. So I had to kind of explain to him, you know,

like what those things were, what I do. Like, he still kind of didn't get it, but kind of did. But like, he understood, oh, contracts, like, do you want me to help? I was very like, especially because I've been divorced. So I've already told my brain, it is not safe to share spaces. Men and business are very, very, very separate. But then eventually it was like, well, I do need help.

and like, you know, it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion. And I started to realize, like, he's phenomenal at reading contracts, by the way. And he's also dyslexic. I don't know if I mentioned that, but yeah, he, I think it's allowed him to be even more in tune with things because he has to be extra careful. So I started realizing like, wow, he has a lot of value. So that process started over some years before Forever Mood came about. And then when I decided, or actually when he decided. is like we were going to start forever mood. He was like, we should start now. We should launch

you in 2020. Mind you, the world was closed. And I was like, what in the hell are you thinking? Like, what are you talking about? Why were we on your brand in the middle of a global pandemic? And he was the one that wrote a plan roughly estimated what it would cost. And that was the first time it felt doable. And so he took the initiative. So I just led with trust. I mean, I don't work at Morgan Stanley. He did. So I can't really like argue with that. So he's helped me over the years,

allowed me to see things as more possible. So I guess that's what made me more comfortable over time. Dennis is also a Pisces. So sometimes he, he's more passion. And ironically, I'm more logic. So sometimes Dennis sees potential in things. And I'm just like, I need proof. But when he started proof, proof, proof, I was like, oh, you ate that?

You ate? I was just like, damn. Yeah, I mean, like, I like seeing results. So he continuously pulls up. He delivered. 1,000 percent way. But also the commuting delivered because, like I said, we, you know, we started really modestly, which I think is a good thing because we didn't think we were going to be, like,

fully disrupting. Like, we just were like, we just want to do something fun. We want to do something. talking about doing for years anyway. But he won thousand percent deliver. And he did really well to pivot when we realized that the business was bigger than we initially planned. Yes. Oh, 1,000 percent. What's your horoscope? Leo. So do Leo's and Pisces get along? No, if it's a, it's funny because like, when I tell people that, they're always like, oh, good luck. And I'm like, yeah, I guess that makes a lot of sense. So I'm, his, his, he's also the first born in

his family, which, by the way, if you're a firstborn eldest daughter of immigrants in business, and you're looking for a man, you need to find yourself another firstborn son. Why? Oh, my God, because they're doers. Don't you dare date an only son or the youngest, no shade? Why? You're so dumb. The shining balls of their family lineage.

Nobody lets them own anything. I'm generalizing, I know. But in my experience, the firstborns tend to be really great leaders. They tend to be a little bit more assertive. Dennis is very assertive. But I was kind of bossy. Like, I was kind of like, dang, like, I'm a little rough around the edges. Like, I think when we first started dating, I was like, dang, like, I don't really do be kind of like running shit.

Like, this is crazy. And he's very sweet. And he's very like, oh, give people chances. And I'm like, for what? They already showed you? No. cut them off. Get them banned.

I don't care. Bye. I literally, I'm very like, I'm a little bit more like black and white. But he's taught me to be like, okay, life is not black and white. You can take your time.

It's great. We balance each other out in a really good way. You guys obviously work together now. How do you separate church and state? It's easier for me than it is him. Dennis will take his laptop to the jacuzzi. That's how out of control he is.

And I'm literally like, give me that damn laptop. Like when he's in bed and he'll just like roll over and be like, babes, I want to show you this rendering and I'm like, go to bed. I'm not doing that right now. Once it's me time,

I don't want to talk about approvals. I don't want to talk about briefs. I don't want to talk about contracts. I don't want to talk about the new hire. We could talk about that tomorrow at 9 a.m. Right now, it's my time. And of course, he has a standing desk. desk. People who have standing desks are nuts. Like, they're just a different, they're just a different

breed of workaholic. I don't know what it is about them damn standing desk. I have to pry him away from that desk. He's nuts. When you see a girl on TikTok, like doing her day in the life and she has a standing desk with a treadmill. Oh, she don't play. And I have a walking pad in my office, too, so I get it. I don't have the standing desk, but I do have a, I am one to take Zoom calls on the walking pad. Yes, I absolutely do. But I know when to shut it off. I also have like a no laptop rule in like any other place because we also work from home. So it's another set of challenges, which you know, you probably can relate to. I don't want the laptop at the kitchen table.

That's for eating. That's for dining. That's for drinking. That's for breaking bread. Like I want every space in our home to be used as it's designated. But if we get too comfortable and if we have the laptops in the theater, the laptops in the breakfast milk, then nothing will ever feel like home. You know what I mean? How do you guys set up your life to have family meetings or boundaries as it relates to wealth and building wealth?

And like those types of conversations, especially when you come from a family where like it wasn't really talked about and it was very scarce. It was honestly a learning curve for me because my relationship to money when I was younger, I think surrounded a lot of or it involved a lot of like shame and guilt and a lot of embarrassment about not knowing how to manage it. not knowing how to grow it, not knowing how to maintain it, and so on and so forth. But Dennis is the exact opposite. So whenever he would like, like, hey, babe, I want to discuss this, I would have like a physical gut discomfort reaction. Like, I was in trouble about something. And it took me, like, years to get over that. Because every, it literally felt like he was calling me into the principal's office to like,

Like, I thought he was going to scold me about something. I thought I'm, you know, I thought he was going to give me a lecture on my spending or I something, you know what I mean? And also, like, it's like the equivalent of like, you know, when you get text with someone they're like, I got to talk to you about something. And it's like that that why of like, oh my God, the anxiety, that's what I felt like whenever he would want to have family meetings about money and someone and so forth. So it's taking me some time to like.

get over that, but the great thing that I've learned and experienced with him is that he never makes me feel uncomfortable about it. Like, I can ask him. If I don't know what something he means, I can ask him and he won't look at me like, why don't you know what that means? And I really appreciate that because that was the exact opposite of my upbringing. I was not taught about money at all. Someone that's listening to this that gets that got feeling when their partner wants to talk about money, or even in a relationship where they've never broached the topic, what's your one piece of advice for them. Yeah, I think you need to be open to listening and I think you need to be willing to learn. If you don't know what something means, don't just assume they got it. Get in there,

educate yourself, take control. And don't be shy or squamish about it. Like, you know, you're a big girl. Like, you can, if he can do it, so can you. I have a lot of rapid fire to go through with you, so we're not done yet. Can I ask you some? Yeah, let's do it. I love a rapid fire. Okay. Jackie. What is the last possible thing you put on your credit card? Well, actually, technically, the last thing was Postmates. Okay, what did you get? A breakfast burrito. What is the last most expensive thing you put on your credit card?

Ooh, I just got that oaring sleeve from that brand. Have you heard of this jeweler Logan Hollowell? Yes. Oh, it's so good. I haven't got it yet, but that was the last most expensive thing that I bought. Okay, perfect. I bought it like three days ago. Perfect.

Okay, this is a new question that's going to become a consistent question. You inspired me. What is your credit card? Oh, in Amix. Okay. And you like it? I love it, yeah. Okay.

You can only choose one for the rest of your life, beauty or home content. I can't be ugly. But I can't be, damn. Oh, beauty. It's easier. There we go. Yeah, beauty. What is the best beauty product on the market currently that is under $30?

Under $30. You had me at the best, but you, oh, damn. The skincare account? Yeah. I really like that dove shower oil he just came out with. That's tea. Okay. Do you have dry skin?

Yes. I didn't mention it because we didn't get to it, but I also have a hyperhydrosis. Oh, my God. So I actually used to get Botox, like, underneath my armpits to stop sweating mine was so bad. Did it, like, permanently stop? Now I go once a year. I used to have to go every quarter. Yeah.

It's a whole struggle. your whole wardrobe is dictated by it. It's a lot. But I was going to say I like it because it's really hydrating. It's great for dry skin. Okay, perfect. You can only pick one for the rest of your life, both to consume and to make. Candles.

I knew you were going to say this. Fragrance. Lifestyle accessories. It's got to be a perfume. It has to be fragrance. It's like. Yeah. What beauty trend do you secretly hate right now?

I don't really think I hate any of them right now. Okay. I can't think of any... This is not 2016, so the girls are not doing the stuff they was doing in. I don't... I don't really feel like there's any wild ones right now that I know of. That I know of. Okay.

You can only live in one beauty era for the rest of your life. Oh my God, the current one. My makeup is the best... Like, I'm the best at makeup I've ever been right now. So I'm going right now. Okay, it looks absolutely incredible. Thank you. You can only use one platform for the rest of the...

of your life. YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. Bye TikTok. TikTok. TikTok is Twitter 2.0. They are lucky to have me put it that way. I love TikTok, but it is like getting out of control. I'm going to say Instagram. I'm a millennial.

Sorry, I love Instagram. It's a control freak's dream. It's very superficial. I love it there. I'll be fake. I don't care. I don't care. I do these love notes to myself.

It's almost like an affirmation to get away the toxic traits in my head. If you could only say one A-S-R love note to yourself for the rest of your life, what would it be? I would say if I do nothing else from this day forward, I've already done enough. Love that. Because I kind of ate that. And I'm happy exactly with what I've built. I still want to do more, but I feel like I've lived such a full life that I'm happy with my portion now. Wow.

Okay, last one. If you had to title this season of your life, what would it be called? I was going to say something really vulgar. Say it. Immediately in my head said, fuck you. But that's kind of mean. Let's be nice. Okay.

I'll be nice. My era, my current area? Because I feel like it. I'm like because I feel like it. Because I feel like it. That's it. I think that's the next name of your perfume. Because I feel like it.

If I could fit on a bottle. I would absolutely put that on a bottle. I'm obsessed. But our next fragrance, the one that I'm wearing now, the one that you said you liked, channels that same, that exact same energy. Obsessed. And you'll love the name of this one. Love. Jackie, where can people find you?

And how can H.S.R. help you right now? Oh, my God. That's so sweet. Well, you've already helped me by bringing me on. So thank you. Everybody can find me at Jackie I know on all platforms. TikTok, Instagram, of course, YouTube. I have two Instagram accounts.

My other one is at lavishly Jackie. That's all things home decor, lifestyle, florals, and all of the things. And at forevermoot.com. F-O-R-V-R, there's no ease, forevermood.com at Sephora. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me.