Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Laney Crowell: The Knicks Opportunity Everyone Missed… How I Got My Beauty Brand Into The NBA! Saie CEO

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

Saie founder Laney Crowell reveals the marketing strategy that changed everything after spotting an overlooked opportunity at a New York Knicks NBA game. Laney shares how she went from working at Estée Lauder to building one of Sephora's fastest-growing clean beauty brands. From launching Saie in her bedroom to becoming an early sponsor of the New York Knicks before their NBA Championship season, she explains how finding overlooked opportunities helped fuel the brand's growth. From clean beauty and skincare to marketing, rejection and female ambition, this is a conversation about taking risk and spotting gaps in the market! —------------------------- Get unselfish access to the insights that will help you own the room. Sign up now https://linkly.link/2jPXJ —------------------------- Timestamps: (00:00) Intro(01:57) Meet Saie Founder Laney Crowell(02:55) How Women Spend Money(05:10) The 100K Waitlist(06:43) Risking A New Product(07:33) Laney's Dream Collab(08:13) Building A Cool Beauty Brand(10:54) Finding Your Beauty Style(11:44) The Knicks x Saie Sponsorship(14:50) Turning Moments Into Franchises(16:30) What Beauty Means(18:52) Moving, Change And Resilience(20:18) Being Selfish While Building(21:58) AG1 Ad(22:58) Building Saie Early On(24:27) Brand Before Personal Brand(26:09) Founder Boundaries Online(27:22) The Reality Behind Beauty(28:01) Why Laney Started Saie(29:05) Becoming A Founder(29:52) Dyslexia And Taking Risks(30:49) The Estée Lauder Lesson(31:58) Beauty Brands And Venture Capital(33:26) The Risk Of Raising Money(34:34) How To Raise Investment(36:14) Laney's Hardest Rejection(37:11) Clean Beauty At Sephora(39:04) Finding Expanders(41:47) Turning Jealousy Into Ambition(42:18) Social Media And Creativity(43:06) Female Founder Aggression(44:15) Hiring For Grit(44:48) Spotting Grit In Interviews(45:06) Scaling Your Startup Team(46:04) Firing With Kindness(46:57) Bilt Ad(47:57) Rella Ad(48:57) Motherhood And Business(50:18) Her Entrepreneur Husband(51:45) Who You Marry Matters(52:30) How To Own A Room(53:57) Rapid Fire(57:18) Laney's HSR Love Note(58:05) Her Favourite Season Of Life(58:31) Where To Find Saie ⸻ Sponsors AG1 - Visit DrinkAG1.com/HSR to get a FREE morning person mug, plus a one-week supply of AG1 samples, with your AG1 Welcome Kit when you first subscribe.  Bilt - Sign up at http://Joinbilt.com/HSR Rella - http://getrella.com use code HSR for 10% off your first 3 months or annual plan ⸻ Hot Smart Rich: Your Business & Culture Gossip For ambitious women wanting to own the room, gain power, and build wealth. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hotsmartrich/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hotsmartrich Maggie Sellers Reum: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maggiesellersreum/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maggiesellersreum LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sellersmaggie/ Locker: https://www.wantlocker.com/users/maggiesellers ShopMy: https://shopmy.us/maggiesellers Amazon Storefront: https://www.amazon.com/shop/maggiesellers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What made you want to partner with a male NBA team, the Knicks? I want to put lip gloss on for this. Yeah. Bring out the Birkin. I think it's just crazy that 40% of NBA fans are actually women, and no one thought to target them. Lainey Crowell, you built a multi-hundred-million-dollar brand to say. People always think I left Estee Lauder to start a brand,

and that is absolutely the farthest thing that didn't even occur to me that I could start a brand. It was all about feeling really good in your skin and your best self. What was that moment that made you? you want to put yourself through this battle field that is being a founder? I remember being rejected so many times that I was so tired I couldn't walk home at the end of the day. But there was a bodega that had a sparkling water that I really liked and that would be the thing that would get me home. You are such an iconic like Estee Lauder Vaux girl. Like you're like I have a sparkling water. I'd be having like a cocktail apparel spread. If you want to get big

fast, my number one tip for people is have a really clear vision and just go for it and don't stop. Like I knew that I wanted to say to make a difference. Like, Nora Smith pulled it out to do her makeup in her car. And all of a sudden, they sold out in minutes. We had a waiting list of over 100,000 people. You've done such a phenomenal job building the cool it girl brand. But what is it? That people actually don't see about Lainie. Hi, Angels. Did you know that subscribing to our channel is free? And it's the simplest way that you can support our show and help us grow. If you do this, we can bring you even more of the content and the guests that you love. All you have to do is just hit the subscribe button below.

So please, if you wouldn't mind, subscribe to the channel and thank you. In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Lainey Crowell, are you ready to get hot, smart rich? I'm so ready. For someone that just clicked into this, maybe they know you, maybe they don't. Yes. Can you just describe what mission?

you're on and a little bit about who you are. Yeah, I'm Laney. I'm the founder and CEO of Say. We make clean, high performance makeup that is good for you and for the planet. And I'm here for on so many missions. My number one reason I started saying was to make makeup that is not only good for your skin, but even makes your skin better. I have very sensitive, very acne-prone skin. And when I realized that my makeup was breaking me out, it was a total aha moment. I was just like, I cannot believe I just spent money to ruin my skin. And when I learned that the beauty industry makes 129 billion units of plastic every single year, it just became my mission to change the industry.

We often say that consumers vote with their dollars. Yeah. What have you learned being in the space for so many years about how women actually spend money? I want to put lip gloss on for this. Yeah. Let's talk about this. Bring out the Birken. Because I am a really big consumer. I love to shop. Everyone knows this about me. I love to shop. Like, I don't have any very many vices to your point. Like, I drink sparkling water instead of cocktails, but I love to shop. And I think that women are really influenced by friends.

That is one thing that I can never get over when I talk to people and I ask them how they discover. say, like, you're going to think they're going to say TikTok. We have so many followers on TikTok. We've gone viral so many times. You think that's what people are going to say. No, it's always my friend or my mom told me about say. With brands that prioritize clean or things that are better for you, oftentimes, though, we find women are like, but the cheaper price is over here. Yeah. From being a brand that stands for a lot, but is maybe more expensive. Do you find that given the option, people are still going to vote with their dollars towards price? Or are people starting to lean towards things that are like better for you, good for the environment? Do we vote

with our dollars in that way? Well, it's interesting because we, I've thought a lot about this because we invest so much in sustainability. It's always more expensive to go to sustainability. We are part of 1% for the planet. One percent of every single dollar that we make goes back towards the environment. So as a brand that spends a lot of money on sustainability, I do wonder, like, how does that affect our consumer? And I think we have a lot of consumers that really like that and they think it's great. Do I think they buy say because of that? Absolutely not. I think they buy say, or I know that they buy say, because of our formulas. Because if you're buying makeup, you want incredible makeup. So I first heard about say when you launched the vanity cases.

Oh, okay. I guess I was maybe 30 at the time. So I wasn't maybe going into my friend's bathrooms the way that I was during college and seeing what they were using. Yeah. But I still remember this vanity case. It was so chic. And I had this like dumpy Amazon one.

And I really wanted to buy it. It was obviously sold out because this is, you know, the road phone case of cosmetics for, say, I think. Yes. They sold out in a matter of like seconds, minutes, anytime we have them. Now they're in stock. Was this your road phone case moment? Yes, 100%. And we did not see it coming because we had a lilac vanity case that had been in stock and hadn't caught on.

And then we launched it in brown. And it was this beautiful lux brown that we had spent a lot of time, you know, picking out. And it was gorgeous. It was part of a mailer for our Slippedin concealer. And I think it was not. Nara Smith pulled it out in her car to do her makeup in her car. And I think that was the moment when all of a sudden everybody just started posting it. And it wasn't for sale. We had not bought any to be for sale. We then were like, okay, let's get 10,000. And they sold out in

minutes. We had a waiting list of over 100,000 people. So the brown cosmetic vanity case. Yes. And then we would launch, we launched these little minis that are so cute in different colors and the same thing happened with those. Okay, so let's talk about this for a second, because that's a risk, right? You're a makeup brand and you don't do sourcing, manufacturing for something that's a luxury tote, basically. Yes. How did you rationalize that decision?

How did you take that risk? Well, we were buying small quantities. Like, we, until recently, we did not have it, like, in stock and available for people. That was something that I wanted to from my community because I just felt like it was kind of messed up. that we were, like, continuing to have this shortage. And I was just sick of the fact that we had so many people messaging us about it. And I was like, we are a brand built for our community. They're asking for this product.

Like, let's give it to them. I think that the risk was honestly in the pricing. It was all like everything say, like we always put it at the sharpest price point that we can. And then when tariffs hit, like that was, we didn't have enough room there. And that was what, if I could change one thing, that would change that. If you could collab with one brand right now, who would it be in why? I really love Calmeyer. I feel so uncool.

I don't know who that is. I feel like the Calmeier's like the cool girl brand in New York right now. Okay, I'm going to look that up. We've done Danielle's show the last few times and every time. We do her show when I'm backstage. I'm like, I need every single thing in this collection. Let's talk about cool for a second because I think you've done such a phenomenal. job building like the cool it girl brand but obviously with the product efficacy and the standards

and morals and principles that your brand stands for as the infrastructure layer yeah how do you educate women to come across as cool as you have with really trying to share with them why your product is superior to put on their skin i mean i think for us it's always this balance between education and fun and cool and style and fashion We talk about it. I've shared this before. We have a Monday morning meeting that is, there's no agenda. It's just about what are we seeing, what would resonate with us, what do we want to do more of, where should we be showing up, whatever. And then I had a huge aha moment when one of my friends told me they didn't know how to do their makeup. And I was like, well, what do you mean? You don't know how to do your makeup. And they're like, no, I don't know anything. I don't know how to put on tint and moisturizer. I don't know where blush goes. I don't know. know what a lip liner is like the basic things that when you're in the beauty industry or you work or you're an exclusive brand at so for you take for granted because there's all these artistry brands around and you're like oh but like you know every you don't know how to put on tinted

moisturizer and that was what actually created what we called the class by say which is our beauty 101 where we just help people learn the basics of like let's talk about our new lip liner shades like how do you even put on lip liner what is a lip combo like those these really kind of basic things that um you know we will will show these kind of pro tips that completely change your makeup routine i when i talk to people who have taken the class they're like it used to be a moment of anxiety for me every morning putting on makeup because i had no idea what i was doing and then it turned into a moment of self-care and so for us like we've continued and have like like a big launch actually coming around the class where it's going to be digital, it's going to be

in person, and we can just provide that education for people. So funny. I admit this all the time. I'm one of those people. Like my 20s was just so focused on working and like moving myself from Canada and starting over. And I literally, my makeup artist canceled it, but I get my makeup done a lot. I got it done today. And I asked to do a lesson on Saturday because I said, you know, if I'm like a way, I need to be

able to do my makeup and feel really confident about it. and I used to even do my eyeliner, like, starting from up and going down. And she would message me and be like, babes, like, you got to go here because it's just looking really clumpy and going down. And I laugh because I don't think people would expect that for me, but I just saw this TikTok that was like being hot is a hobby. Yeah. Like being able to understand your facial feature and like what's going to accentuate you. And I guess for people that feel lost and confused on TikTok watching a specific video being done, like how can they understand what? What's best for them? Is it just going to a Sephora and talking to a say representative to know, like, how they should actually do their own makeup?

I mean, I would say you should join one of our Zooms where you can ask questions and we have pro makeup artists that are literally there to teach you every single week how to do your makeup. Just a shout out to that whole program that we have because it's quite extensive and something that we put so much resource behind. I think that I have learned a lot from social, just watching the videos that are right for me, not the ones that are not right for me. I learned how to do makeup at the counter at Macy's, and that doesn't really exist anymore, which is tough. Can we please talk about what was in you that made you want to partner with a male NBA basketball team, the Knicks? Sure. Okay. Where does that inspiration come from first of all?

Let me just tell you the whole story. Because it's a really good story. Because I did not sit around with my team saying, you know what we should do. No. Or we didn't get pitched. It was completely the opposite. It was totally organic. I went into the city with my husband and my two kids to go see a game.

It was the first game I had ever been to. And I was in Madison Square Garden. And we were working on CitySet, which is our 16-hour setting spray. It's completely game-changing. It's the first clean setting spray with no synthetic polymers. That sets your makeup for 16 hours. It's insane, and we didn't have a name for it. And I was sitting there and I was looking around this stadium that is electric.

And I was watching all the ads and it was really interesting because all of the screens flashing and the sponsors were all speaking to men. But there are so many women at Madison Square Garden and they all look incredible. Like they come to show up. They're moms. They're on a date. their girls out for a fun night. Like it is such a social spot and there was not a single ad speaking to them. So that was like a little something that was in my mind and then the Nick City dancers came out.

And I was like City, City Set. And I pinged my team and I said, can you see if City Set is available for a trademark? That's all it was. It was just a name that I thought was cute. I loved the sound of it. I love the alliteration. I love the fact that like when you're in a city, you are go, go, go. You need a setting spray and you need a daily one that's not going to be making you break out or irritating your skin.

I'd happen to meet a girl that works at MSG at a New Year's Eve party like two weeks prior. So I texted her. And I was like, hey, I need a chance I can gift the Nick City dancers. Then that turned into the huge partnership that you see to. of us being like, wait a minute, we can be the only brand speaking to all of these women. The breakdown, I think, is 4555 of men to women at MSG for a game. There's out of home on 7th Avenue. We created this incredible experience for our community from a giveaway.

There was an influencer who asked me for tickets. I don't know if you saw that. We gifted her and we did this whole thing. Our merch is vintage. We have an entire Knicks vintage collection of jackets that we sourced from the 80s and 90s. We had a box for all of the editors one day. Experiential is just where it's at right now. Like people want experiences.

It's why sports is exploding. You know, it was a little bit ahead of the curve, but it just timing worked out perfectly because obviously the Knicks are on fire. The crowds in the street are crazy in New York right now. And our billboard is right there. I think it's just crazy in general that 40% of NBA fans are actually women and no one thought to target them. Not one ad. The closest was a moving company. Why do you think that sometimes the most obvious answers are the things that we skip over?

We're all set in our ways. I think that I attribute that as we were talking about earlier. Like my brain just works a little bit differently than people. Like that was so obvious to me. I couldn't believe it. And now I work with all these incredible women at MSG who are like so excited to work together because we're the only sponsor that is interesting to them. Well, and I think if you think about it too, right, like the Wag industry in general, I don't think has infiltrated the NBA the way it has for NFL. Of course, I'm going to get a lot of hate for that, I'm sure, but like tennis, F1, NFL, this is crazy. But I even think down to the Wag culture, like now is your brain when you're starting to think about

in real life, expanding the same brand. Like, how do you think about taking a series that works and then expanding it into a franchise? I mean, I've thought about it a lot because obviously, like, they're, I'm obsessed with women's sports. I think women's sports is, like, just so crucial for young girls especially. And I don't know if you know this stop, but it's 98% of women in C-suite positions played sports. Like it is the only place where girls are taught to lead, be aggressive, you know, have that go get a mentality where they don't have to be perfect and they can just be leaders. So I would love to do something with women's sports. I feel like it's just where it's at right now.

When you were a little girl, what did beauty mean to you? And has that definition evolved to where you are today? Well, I remember getting in trouble for buying Allure magazine when I was nine. Amber Valletta was on the cover. It was like her, the cover was her full face. It was the sickest cover ever. But I just remember thinking that she was the most beautiful person I'd ever seen and I wanted to know everything.

I wanted to know the secrets. I wanted to know who she was. Like, I just, I wanted in. I think it meant confidence. I think it was all about feeling really good in your skin and comfortable and your best self. And I think that's still what it means to me. There was definitely a period for me in my 20s when I was trying to be. to fit in. And I feel like I had just come from the era of like Cameron Diaz and Lucy Lou and

Drew Barry. I'm obviously all the Charlie's age. They were also distinct in their beauty. And then I think there was a period of time where we got a little bit into this Instagram face. And everyone kind of started to look the same. And that was my definition of beauty in my 20s trying to like fit into that. And only recently in my 30s have I really fallen back in love with the idea of like my face shape and what makes me unique. And I've spent so much time on Claude, even like, what's the best hair length for me for an all-blong face and how do I accentuate my cheekbones? Has your definition of beauty for yourself and what you see in the mirror evolved at all as we've gone through different trends for beauty or has it always remained consistent?

I mean, I did just see a picture of myself with very thin eyebrows. And you cannot picture that. You cannot picture that now but I honestly my beauty routine has always been very consistent I think there was a period when I was a senior in high school freshman in college where I was wearing more glam and I remember a boy saying to me once he thought I was so pretty but I was wearing too much makeup and I was like okay noted got it like let's go back to the tried and true I did live in Paris in middle school And that really informed my definition of beauty of like your skin first, easy and effortless, just that really cool girl, like not trying too hard. I think that's like the biggest thing for me is if you look like you're trying too hard. So you moved around a lot when you were a child, which you sort of just mentioned.

Yes. Can you describe how often you moved and then what you think that did in terms of approaching new situations because you were always a fish out of water? Everyone always says, what did your dad do? My mom was in the Foreign Service and she had this incredible job that took us all around the world. When I was five, she got in, which was a really big deal. Very few women got accepted into the Foreign Service. And our first post was Guangzhou, China. So my mom learned Chinese in six months and we moved as a family to Guangzhou, China.

it was us and five families who worked at Nike, and that was it for Americans in the entire city. And I mean, I was really young, but I was also the only kid in my grade. It was just me and the teacher. And I remember, like, we would go and visit the other classrooms. I think it makes me want to cry a little bit thinking about, like, poor little Laney, like, no friends. We moved back to D.C., new girl again. And it was a little bit easier when we were abroad because, generally there were a lot of new kids. Like when we, after D.C., we were there for four years,

we moved to Paris and I went to the bilingual school. And the classroom was full of new kids there. And then after Paris, we moved to Northern California, where my dad's family's from. I have a lot of women on the show who aren't quite at the level that you're at. You've built a multi-hundred million dollar brand. And one of the questions they always ask me is like, I feel a little guilty right now that I'm putting a lot of my time into my business and building my business and I'm maybe ignoring or I'm in a season of my life where my childhood friends or my college friends aren't my number one priority. And I'm so interested for you now, someone who's built multi-hundred million dollar brand. How do you think about female friendships? Are there

seasons in your life where like it's okay to be a little bit more selfish? I mean, I think there's like those seasons for everything, right? Like I remember when I first started building Say, I didn't talk to a friend, I think, for years. And I remember it was Say and my kids. And that was it. There was nothing else in my life. And I remember kind of having this moment of like, oh, wow, like this is it right now. And then I remember like, say, getting bigger and more established. And, you know, we went from five people to 10 people to 20 to 40. And now we're 80 plus people. And yeah, I have time to go out to dinner with my friends. And I have time to text people. You know, those little moments of time to reach out to friends, that doesn't happen when you're like at the

very, for me it didn't happen at the very beginning when I was building say. But I will say that I have built an incredible community of founder friends and they just understand things a little bit differently of like you've disappeared for three months because you had a launch or you had something big going on and then you're back and it's fine. And everyone's like, oh yeah, totally. I get that. We really don't talk enough about how much is actually asked of women's bodies. And for me, when everything feels like it's ever changing, I really value having one part of my routine that stays the same, which is where our sponsor, AG1, fits into my life. Because it's truly the one thing that makes me feel like I've got myself together. AG1 is a daily health drink.

It's got multivitamins, prebiotics, probiotics, probiotics, superfoods, and antioxidants all in one scoop. Their next-gen formula is clinically shown to fill common nutrient gaps even in healthy eaters. It also supports immune defense, energy production, and gut health. Their CEO, Kat Cole, who is amazing, knowing that she is leading AG1, it makes me trust it even more. AG1 has over 50,000 verified five-star reviews and comes with a 90-day money-back guarantee. For a limited time, visit AG1.com slash HSR to get a free morning person hat with your first AG1 subscription. I heard about this concept when I was first starting to build this, and everyone pretty much thought I was crazy going around being like, I'm hot, smart rich when I was none of those things. And someone said, you really need a challenge network, someone that's really going to challenge you and, like, catch you when you fall because that's inevitably going to happen.

Finding those people was hard. And then it eventually slowly started happening. When you were first starting to build, say, who did you then have around you when shit hit the fan that you could like call and just say, I don't know what I'm doing in this situation? I need help. my investor, Rachel Harris at Unilever Ventures. We went through COVID together. She was my first investor and I launched, say, November 2019 and COVID hit March 2020. And I'd just taken a million dollars and which at the time felt like a lot. I know people now are really are launching with more like five million dollars to launch their brands. For me, I felt like I'd taken so much money and I

I had a huge responsibility on my back and COVID hit. And obviously none of us had been through a pandemic before, including Rachel. And we talked every single week and just navigated it from products being stuck on ships in the harbor and nobody there to unload them to the fact that I didn't see any my employees. I mean, I built, say, from my bedroom for two years. those first two years. 2019 happens. So we've already kind of gone through the girl boss era. Like Emily Weiss is like in the headlines.

I actually worked at a direct-to-consumer darling. So I kind of got my start in the U.S. because I managed like an $18 million budget for a marketing. I was in the head of marketing seat for a direct-to-consumer darling. And like my goal was to be Emily Weiss. I thought she was the coolest, sexiest person ever. You guys have obviously a lot of parallels. She raised a million dollars to launch.

You raised a million dollars to launch. She started a blog. You started a blog. but like you really prioritize building say the brand versus building your personal brand. Was that intentional or was that something that you always wanted to do? But it's just like you didn't have the bandwidth. Shout out to Emily for being, I think, an expander to so many women showing them that they can do it. When I think a lot of us, myself included, like I did not think of myself as a founder.

People always think I left Estee Lauder thinking that I was going to start a brand and that is absolutely the farthest thing that I did. even occur to me that I could start a brand. I did think about the fact that I did not want my name as part of the brand because if you ever sell your company, you then sell your name. And I'm not a makeup artist. I am just somebody who loves makeup and, you know, I'm the ultimate consumer. So for me, I was building this brand for consumers and for the community. I did not have any time to do anything. I mean, now I'm able to go on podcasts and able to do this stuff, which I love and is fun. But no, that's a more recent thing that I've had any bandwidth to even, like, post an Instagram. And I think the pressures differed a lot, right? Like, I think now being a founder-led

brand is so important and people want to know who is behind, say, or behind any brand. Do you have certain boundaries of things that you're like, I won't talk about this, but I will absolutely talk about this, maybe not on the Say channel, but on Laney's personal channel? I really see my channels as an extension of the brand. Like, I see my channels as a extension of the brand. Like I see my channels as people getting to see a different view into the brand to see that behind the scenes to see. It was funny the other day. I was so sick and I had the craziest week of just back to back to back to back. And I was I felt like I was going to fall over.

I was so tired and exhausted and just not feeling good. And so I was like laying in bed with an ivy in my arm. Chloe on my team who helps me, she came in and we were like laughing. we're like, that's what we should have filmed. This is what is happening. Like, this is, you know, really that, like, story behind how it all gets built, I think is so interesting. And I love telling it.

And I just see my channels as a way to continue to be a channel of audience awareness to storytelling a different and in more interesting way sometimes. I'm so interested when you're building, like, a luxury brand, right? Like, those moments of the IV in your arm or, like, wanting to play. pull your hair out because you're exhausted. How often do you really experience moments like that? Because from the outside, it doesn't obviously look like that. The reason why you probably don't see more of that online is honestly because we move so fast as a company, we call it say speed because when people get to say, they're like, what's happening? And it's because we're just moving

so fast. Like speed has been such a different shooter for us and such an important part of our success that like there's no way I could document everything that's happened in one week. You said earlier that you didn't really think of yourself as a founder. So you leave Estee Lauder. Yes. What was that moment then that made you want to put yourself through this battlefield that is being a founder? I was just so inspired by the community that I had built through the blog that I had started to have this conversation around beauty being better and what that meant. And it was a really small niche community, but like they were so mighty and they were so invested and they were

like, you are the person to launch us and here's exactly what it should look like. And that's where the name of the brand comes from for, if you didn't know that. It's where say comes from. It's from you say it. We create it. When I was starting say, I just kept going back to the conversations that I would have with the community of like, well, they said this and they said that. And I'm like, oh, say, this is for all of those people saying that they want clean makeup that really performs. That is truly good for their skin. That is at a nice price point. So I really want to break this down because I think there's going to be a lot of people listening to this that have the idea maybe.

Yeah. Did you feel, though, that that founder instinct inside of you was there, but you just didn't think there was the opportunity? or did you have to grow into knowing that you are the founder archetype? I think I've always had entrepreneurial spirit. And my parents were not entrepreneurs. There was nobody around me my entire life that was like, oh, that's what this is. Or, oh, people start businesses, like simple things like that. That was not what my community is surrounding looked like.

I have never felt more like myself than I do now. And I think that's because of the opportunity to be a founder. You also did a very interesting thing to launch your brand, which was go into mascara, which is crazy. I know. Let's break this down from a personality standpoint, though. Like, did you take risks? Did you always go against the grain as a child? Or did you see a white space in mascara and you were like, this is the product or this is what my community is asking for?

The community asked for it. It was the first product they wanted. They wanted a super clean, nourishing mascara that didn't fall under their eyes. I had no idea that that was a product that you wouldn't normally launch with until I think my friend Celia Ed Vogue asked me that in the launch interview. She was like, so nobody does this. And I was like, what? Nobody does this. But I think you said that you're dyslexic.

I don't know if you share that. I do. I also am dyslexic. And I think that that is part of one of our superpowers is that we don't see risk. We don't really see some of those like risk remote opportunities that other people might be really obvious to them. them. I don't really see them. I say things all the time and my team will be like, oh, that's a big goal. And I'm like, is it? I think we can do that. No problem. What's something from your past life of Estee Lauder or the blog or building all the companies that you had for other people

that you didn't realize as a secret weapon when you were starting to build say, but like really helped you at those beginning stages. When I worked at Estee Lauder, I was like a, I don't want to say fish out of water. It was more like a, what's that saying, like a round pig square hole. Yeah. Me and my ex-fiance. Yeah. So I realized when I left that that training was so major and just put me so far ahead of anybody else in the industry because I've been trained by the best of the best. And there was these really like hair pulling out moments where I would have to do 25 decks to show that we should love. launch and Instagram when nobody even cared about Instagram. And I would find it so frustrating because I like to move really quickly. I'm a really quick decision maker. And I had to prove my point. And I had to prove it over and over again. And I had to refine. And that was exactly the skill I

needed for fundraising. Okay. Let's talk about fundraising. I was actually going to go into something that we're going to get into after. But one thing I found fascinating listening to you on other shows with is that you said there was not an option to not raise money for say because you always wanted a big brand. Yes. Do you still believe that you can't build a big brand without venture capital today? In beauty. I mean, look, I was really clear on the vision for say when I launched.

And I think that's like my number one tip for people is like just have a really clear vision for what it is that you're building, have that North Star for yourself, for your brand, and just go for it and don't stop. And I knew that I wanted, say, to make a difference. I wanted, say, to completely move the needle in terms of how people were formulating products, how they were treating the environment. The list goes on. And so to be that size, I knew I needed money for inventory. I knew I needed money for marketing. I knew I needed a team. You know, I think if you want to get big and get big fast, which like, you know, product market fit and timing is so important. I think having some funding. is nice. I think if you could get that from alone, even better. Well, especially in today's market with dupe culture. It's like you have to move quickly because people will be coming up your behind. Obviously, I'm a fan of venture capital. I invest a lot into companies. So I love it, but I do think there's the other side

of venture capital where there can be cons. Learning what you've learned over the roadmap of raising money. Yeah. What would you highlight to people about some of the cons of raising venture capital. I think you really want to understand equity and what that means and what you're giving away. And for me, that was something that took me a really long time to understand. And I had already given away equity at that point when I fully grasped what I had given away, not just in terms of venture, but also in terms of employees and stock options. And I'm a really generous person. I'm always like, yeah, let's go. Whatever. I just want to go. And I wish I had taken a step back there and like really, truly understood what I was doing in that moment. Venture capital is great because generally it's pretty hands off. So I think that that

is wonderful. And I think that it gives brands an opportunity to grow really quickly. I think it gives opportunity to the people who are able to raise it. I think a con of venture capital is that so little is given to women. So 4% of venture capital money is given to women. I think it's even less if you take out AI. I think Mira. If you take Mira out, I think it goes down to 2.9%. You know, I think that's a con that there's bias to it. What is the best way to raise money or ask for money? To be really prepared about what your worth is, how you're going to create profitability, how you're going to get to scale quickly, and what the moat is around your business.

I think if you can say that really easily and quickly to people, I think they're going to just see the opportunity and want to invest and not miss the boat. I think if you have any wishy-washiness to your pitch, I think that if you're not clear and how you're going to get to profitability and how quickly you're going to get there. I think that's a big problem. I think that you want to do your diligence. I'll talk to people who are starting businesses because I love to mentor. I love to help people who have a dream of starting a business.

And they'll be missing huge chunks of their business plan. They won't have a marketing plan. They won't have any information as to what makes their formulas proprietary. Things that, to your point about duping, I'm like, but anybody could. do this tomorrow and it would be the same. Have you ever turned down an investor that wanted to invest and you just got bad vibes and that was enough for you to not put them on your cap table? No, and I wish that I had. I definitely have investors that, you know, I was just trying, I was a first time founder. I'd never raised money before. I was raising money post those big checks. Like D to C was

dead when I was raising. And so people were not investing those big dollars like they had been before. For me, I was just kind of not desperate, but like I was trying to get the deal done. Take me back to the hardest rejection that you faced raising venture capital because you're going to get rejected, right? Like people aren't going to understand your vision. I had so many rejections. I don't know what the hardest one was. I remember being rejected so many times that I felt like I was. I felt like I was. so tired I couldn't walk home at the end of the day. Like I would get off the subway and I would honestly like I would get off and I can even like picture the street that I had to walk down because I would look down it and I'd be like I don't even know how I'm going to get a home because I'm so

exhausted from having gotten 10 nose or whatever it was in that day. What did you do to get home? There was a bodega that had a sparkling water that I really liked and so that would I would go in and I'd buy the sparkling water and that would be like the thing that would get me home. You are such an iconic, like, Estee Lauder Vogue, girl. Like, you're like, I have a sparkling water, bitch. I'd be having, like, a cocktail apple spreads. Okay. I think people don't fully realize how important your brand and clean beauty is.

In Europe, more than 1,300 ingredients are prohibited. In the U.S., they have only banned 11. Yep. Does that frustrate you or motivate you? You know, I have to admit, I don't think so much about banned ingredients. We have a very extensive list. Let's say we have over 2,000 ingredients that we don't use. More than you're up.

Yeah. We work with this incredible toxicologist, and she, you know, there's a lot of ingredients we don't use just because they could irritate your skin. And as somebody who has extremely sensitive skin and extremely acne-prone skin, we formulate our products so that the person with the most sensitive skin can use them. We get emails from people saying, I have eczema, I can't wear any makeup, and then I discovered say and now I can wear makeup again. And so my goal is that our products are formulated for that most sensitive skin type and then anyone can use it and enjoy it. And we formulate it to have

incredible finishes and be dewy and gorgeous and create butterflies and all those things. But, you know, we are product developer called it the Olympics of product development, at say, because it takes so long to develop our products. I was tickled the other day because someone went into Sephora with the Yucca app. Are you familiar with the Yucca app? Okay. And they went. Wait, but for people. but aren't familiar with the Yucca app? Can you explain what that is? Okay, so it's an app that I think it was started for food and then it branched into beauty and it gives ratings as to the ingredients that are in products and if they're going to

irritate your, potentially irritate your skin. And the Yucca app was not created, did not exist to my knowledge when I started Say. So I did not formulate for this purpose, but Say has the highest ukra rating out of any brand of sefora and that's just because we are so committed above and beyond with our ingredients you are definitely not a trend follower like you are an innovator thought leader yeah who have been the expanders in your life and how important is that to curate whether it's socially or in person like who is expanding your life and not contracting it oh my gosh i think that's the number one most important thing. I think that I have moments all the time. I had one recently where I was like, I'm not thinking big enough. And that's because I don't have people around me that are showing me how big I can

think. And someone was asking the day, they're like, how did you get started? And I was like, oh, I moved to New York. I didn't know anybody. I got my first job at Lucky. And then I was like, oh my gosh, I remember, I remembered. I had read Lucky every single month for years before I moved to New York. I had no idea. I didn't know a single person in editorial. I had no idea I was going to get that job. I remember that first month or two that I was there, they're like, we want to photograph you to be a lucky girl.

And I was in the pages of Lucky Magazine. And it was that aha moment of like, oh, my God, anything is possible. And I think the biggest problem for me and for other people is that you don't know what you don't know. And that's why I give that shout out to Emily Weiss of like, thank you for being that expander to all of us, you know, taking those moments of realizing that maybe you don't have an expander around you in that moment or you don't have someone to look at. I recently was talking to one of my investors who led this unbelievable life-changing conference for CEOs. There was only 20 of us. The majority of them were companies that are much bigger than mine. And I was like,

she was like, what's your goal of this conference? And I was like, my goal is to be around expanders. That's all I want to get from these three days is I just want to be around people that have achieved what I want to achieve and more. This is so important to talk about because I think this is the mindset of the consumer to be an expander. Because what essentially you're saying, if I'm breaking it down is like sharing your life, sharing your success, and the people in the receiving end need to be in the mindset of receiving that expansion, right? But a lot of people look at other people's success, other people's joy, other people's opportunities as like, well, I don't have that. And it almost becomes something that, not that it becomes competition,

but it's almost like, jealousy. So if someone's sitting in that mindset where they look at people that they could see as an expander and they see jealousy, are there things that they can do to change that mindset? Well, Gabrielle Bernstein says it best. She says that is driftwood. And so anytime you look at something and you're like, why do they have that and I don't have that, that's actually your moment to say, oh, that means it's coming for me. So I ever feel that like little ping of like, oh, like, I wish I had that. I'm like, oh, no, that's just a sign that it's coming. And it completely, it's like a complete 180 to shift your energy. How do you curate your feed socially to be consuming content, staying on top of pop culture trends, knowing who the new influencers are, but also allowing you to create more than you're consuming? I recently bought a second phone that I put my social on and I leave that in my office during the week so that I'm not scrolling outside of the office. I think it's a really tough balance when you're a socially first brand because I get so much inspiration from social.

And I love it too. Like I've always loved social. So I love seeing what people are doing. I love seeing the trends. I love seeing all of it. But when I find myself scrolling too much, like I have to shut it down because I realize that it's taking away from me being creative in other ways and having those big ideas. Like I have my big ideas usually when I'm on a walk or not when I'm scrolling. Would you classify yourself with the word aggressive?

Yeah, I would. I think that like when I think about myself in work and it's a, I think a big part of why I feel so comfortable at work is because I get to be my true self there in being, I know what I want. I make fast decisions and you don't really get to do that socially as much. And people, I'd have it be normal. I had Harley Finkelstein on the episode, President of Shopify, and he said being a founder as a personal development journey, just disguised his entrepreneurship. 100%. And it's interesting because I would also describe myself as,

very aggressive. I played sports really competitively. Even the family foundation, my husband and I just set up when we got married is like, we're really going to be investing in sports because we believe that that fundamentally leads to entrepreneurship. All the things you just said. But I think, especially in this era that we live in with like, I hate to categorize by generation because I think there are outliers for both millennial and for Gen Z. But I'm interested for someone that grew up in the hustle culture, New York City, like wanting to push each other to do. be the best that we can be. How do you instill that culture in an 80-person team with say, while you bring people from a different generation along with you that maybe didn't grow up with that?

I mean, I hire very specifically for grit and for resilience and for personality. And there's someone that just joined her team. Her name's Kendall. And she emailed the team. She said, I come back from my semester abroad at 9. My flight line lands at 9 a.m. I can be in the office at 10.30. She was an intern. And I was like, this is it. That's like the energy you want. Do you think you can identify that in an interview? No, I don't. And I'd say we do often a lot of dating before we marry.

We'll have someone join part-time. We'll have them join as a consultant before they join full-time, specifically for that reason. Now that I have someone in the chair who's built a multi-hundred-million-dollar brand, do you believe this thing is true that the team that takes you from like zero to five, five to 15, 15 to 25 is not the same team that will take you to the next iteration of your business. Yeah. People love to talk about that. And I think that it is pretty narrow-minded. I have lots of people that say, Aaron, Michael, Sarah, like lots of people, Lauren, who have been at Cali. I have so many people at say who have been there from year one. And they have made the conscious decision to grow with the brand and be indispensable. And I think that, you know, that is. totally feasible and if not a benefit to the brand because they are part of the soul of the brand.

They say is just as much their brand is mine. I think that there have also been people that didn't grow with the brand. And that's okay too. Maybe they just prefer wanting to be at a smaller company, which I get that. When you have to let go of an employee, do you do it like fire fast? or what's your mentality for being able to make these really tough decisions? I have gotten much better at that. And I think when you know you know and it's better for everybody,

I got the advice once that like if you're unhappy, it probably means they are also. So don't we want everyone to feel good and be happy? And I think you can do anything with kindness. You know, there was somebody who wasn't the right fit anymore for the team. And it would have been really easy for me not to have that conversation. And I was like, no, I want to have that conversation. Like, yeah, sure, I could not have it.

But is that the right thing to do? Am I going to sleep okay tonight knowing that I didn't have that? And for me, that's always my North Star. It's like, am I happy with the person that that implies that I am? Every now and then, I hear something and my reaction is pure shock. Wait, people aren't already doing this. If you make a rent or a mortgage payment every single month and there's a way for you to get rewards back for that payment? Why would you not be doing that? Our sponsor Bill

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Everyone keeps asking me how I've grown HSR's Instagram so fast with such an engaged community, and it has nothing to do with me. It's possible for a few reasons. Number one, this community. Number two, my HSR team. I have very little to do with it because I don't want to be the type of founder who's approving captions and bottlenecking the team. Number three, because the HSR team has a secret project management tool that helps them plan, manage, and approve all social content. It's called Rella, and it's now one of our sponsors. Rella was started by an HSR angel founder, Natalie.

Shout out Natalie, hello. And it's been such an honor to watch Natalie build this and see how, how, how much. helpful her platform is for social teams, trying to grow, plan, give feedback, and approve content quickly. Rela makes it so easy to stay organized and move fast. It is a no-brainer for any HsR angel trying to grow their own social channel. So head to getrella.com and use code Hsr for 10% off your first three months or annual plan. I love having successful moms on the show because this is something I hopefully want to be in the foreseeable future. What would you say to the person listening that's nervous that kids could get in the way of building a brand as big as you have with say.

I think it makes you better. I think that when you are a mom, I think you again, like the clear you can get, the better you're going to be at anything. And when you become a mom, you become so clear on what you want. Because if you don't really want it, you're not going to do it. First of all, when you're a mom, your capacity for everything just grows. Your capacity to love grows. Your capacity to empathize grows. Like all of you grows. in my mind. You become really good at multitasking on every level. And that, to me, those are all incredible qualities in a leader. Did you know that before you started having children and started your business? Or is that something you had to prove to yourself? I don't remember being like super concerned about it. Like I knew that I could do anything. But also I had my mom as a example. You know, she had me and my sister, we traveled the world. Like I think more about that. I'm like, how did they travel the way they traveled? Like we were on boats, we were on trains. We were like in the most exotic places in the world. And my parents, my mom didn't wink and I while

having the incredible career she had. What is your dynamic like with your husband as someone who's obviously built like such a huge brand? My husband is also an entrepreneur. And for me, that has been such a blessing because he had been through everything before. And so not only was he like amazing to, like I asked him something the other day. I was like, hey, this has happened to you before? And like, I want to say like 99% of the time he had experienced it before. So he was like, has been an amazing sounding board in that way. I think he has built a company that also has similar values.

So that's been really helpful of like, okay, we both are value driven companies. I think also like, as we were talking about like highs and lows, like I remember a moment that I was just like taken to the ground on like i was just devastated heartbroken and he was like well your heart you feel this way because it's biblical and you will get through this moment but like right now like just feel it and like that could not have been there could not have been a better answer in that moment of like yeah it feels like a big deal because it is and he had experienced it before and and knew what a big deal it was. So I don't really remember what we're talking about, but he has been just in a lot of ways, my partner. When people say like, oh, you don't have a co-founder, like my husband, I think in a lot

of ways has been. Do you believe that the most important decision that you will make is who you marry? Yes, I do. A hundred percent. And like, I never wanted to agree with that statement because to me It felt like it was placing just too much power on someone other than me. And as an independent person, I didn't like that concept. But I think that I've just seen so many of my friends and their relationships in the different ways that it can go. And I feel like just I can, I also feel like I've had moments where I've been like, where would I be if I had been with that X versus where I am now?

And I'm like, oh, my God. That's my nightmare. It is my nightmare. How do you own a room? How do you walk into a room and own it? Like, what are the exact things that you're doing? So I have a mantra, and it's to be the energy that you want to see in the room. And I developed that mantra because I don't know if you heard about this book that was written by, I think it was a woman who had a really bad accident.

and she was in the hospital and she couldn't speak and people would enter the room and she could see a light around them and that light was represented their energy and it was so impactful for her when somebody would come in the room with really good energy versus if someone would come in the room with bad energy and as somebody who was injured and recovering like that energy would completely change the way that she felt and she wasn't even able to communicate it until after she got better. But I was like, when I read that and I was like, oh, wow, that's how important our energy is. It actually is surrounding all of us. We just can't see it. And I think everybody reacts to that energy, even subconsciously. Yeah, I always say, like, I, the only reason

I'm sitting here is because I attracted what I wanted to get. Like, I, I'm not the smartest person ever, but because I was happy and energetic people were like, I want to help this person. You know, you can't help yourself. Yeah. Okay. Leany, we have to end with some rapid fire because we've been talking for over an hour. Oh, my God. What is the last thing you put on your credit card?

I put a bottle of water, which is so unlike me. I never leave the house without a reusable water bottle, but I left the house at 4 a.m. this morning to come to see you. And I forgot my water bottle. So I got a water bottle and I got a banana. And it was $23. No, it's disgusting. how expensive the airport is. I cannot. I was going to ask, what's the last most expensive thing? But would it be that? I'm kidding. What is the last most expensive thing? I had been looking for a

specific watch. I'm not wearing it right now, so I can't show it to you, but I've been looking for it for over a year. And it's a vintage piage watch that I found, actually a friend of mine found it in London. And I had wired that money within 10 minutes. I'm obsessed with that answer. I'll show you a picture. Yeah. Do you collect watches? I love watches, yeah. Okay, this wasn't on the, this wasn't on the sheet. But let's get into it. But let's get into it. You can only pick one for the rest of your life, watches or Birkins? Watches. Oh, okay. Okay. That's how serious we're talking. Yes. What is your credit card and why? I have an American Express and I don't know why. Good travel. No, I just think because credit cards have become a status. symbol and a question I get all the time, hence, like, doing this for the community. I actually have a really good answer to this. Okay, go. I don't even know where my wallet is. Everything is on my phone and I have credit cards on there. Yeah. This one's hard.

Favorite beauty brand that isn't yours. Oh my gosh. I mean, I'm a beauty lover. This is a really tough one for me. Right now I'm going to say, um, Sophie Povett. I, her skin care is made for acne prone sensitive girlies like me and I use her entire routine. Oh, what? You have it. You, can only leave the house in one makeup product. What is it? Glowy super gel all over. I put it on the other day. I had time to do glowie super gel and brush my brows and I looked sick. I love it. Okay. You can only pick one. A good blowout or a facial? Blow out. I love how fast your answers are. Oh yeah. I'm super decisive. Someone said that to me today. They're like, wow, you make decisions really quickly. And I was like, I have made 10 decisions and already learned from my. mistakes from them. Yeah. Before you've made one. Yeah. Okay. Gwasha or lymphatic drainage massage? Lymphatic drainage. Love. Yeah. I kind of stopped doing guasha and I regret it, but I have abandoned my gwashaw routine. I used to be really diligent. I used to do it during meetings. I stopped doing it, but I love, love, love of lymphatic massage. How often I wish I could get one tonight. I have a good girl. Yeah. Can I see her? Yeah, I can text her for you. She's actually amazing.

Um, people don't want to see my face that a gloss. I got to say. Like, I have a really round face that it's not a, it's not a vibe. Okay, I have a really toxic brain, which I feel like you don't. Do you have a really positive brain? No, I'm a glass half empty person. Yeah. Okay. So same. And I will tell myself things like, people hate me. People don't want to see me succeed. So every single day I do these HSR love notes. Okay. It's almost like an affirmation, but I just wanted to brand it myself. I love it. Um, if you could. would only say one HsR love note for the rest of your life to yourself to get through anything. What would it be?

I mean, the first thing that came into my mind was you can do anything. Yeah. I say it to my kids all the time too. You guys can do anything. You just have to work really hard. I love that. Yeah. Did your parents tell you that?

They didn't tell me that, but they 100% instilled that in me. I feel like my dad, I think about this other day, I feel like my dad raised me and my sister, like, boys. Not on purpose, but I think he just treated us like boys in the sense of like it didn't really occur to us that things weren't available or on the table or on the menu for us. And if you could title this season of your life, what would it be called? Aw, I think it's my favorite. Yeah, I'm having the time of my life. I'm so happy. Yeah.

My kids are the best. My business is the best. My friends are amazing. I live this incredible place. I love everyone I work with. Life is good. I love that. We need more people to share that. Lany Crowell. Yes. Where can people find you? And how can HsR. Help you right now? So, well, I mean, I would love for everyone to try say. My favorite thing about say is that when people use it, they text me or DM me and they go, my entire makeup bag is now say. Like once you discover our formulas, you just can't stop. And I want everyone to have products that make their skin feel their best and even get better. Where can people find you? Oh my gosh, Sephora.

We're exclusive at Sephora nationwide in Canada. Your sister can get us there too. Sephora.com and say hello.com. Yeah. You know, I know you're such a founder. It didn't even cross your mind to be like at Laney Crowell on Instagram. People are like at Maggie Sellers Dream on Instagram. You're like, go to Sephora and buy my product.

Well, you'll tag me at Laney in this content. Of course. Thank you so much for coming on Hotsmont Rich. We absolutely love you. And I can't wait for everyone to hear your story. I feel like we were like just getting in our room. Like is it really over? Okay, fine.

I was, you know, I just landed. It took me a second. But like, now we're in it. You smashed it. You'll be back for part two. Okay, great. In, done.