Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Maggie Sellers On Her Hot Smart Rich Money Mindset—Women Are Being Lied to About Money and It’s Making Men Rich

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

On this episode of Hot Smart Rich, Maggie Sellers sits down with her sister and former CFO of billion-dollar DTC brands, Katie Sellers, to talk about the Hot Smart Rich Money Mindset. The truth? Women are being lied to about money—and it’s making our boyfriends, husbands, brothers, and the men in our lives richer by default. They’re not smarter. They’re just in the room when financial decisions are being made. Meanwhile, women control 85% of consumer spending—we decide what to buy, where to shop, and which brands blow up. We are the market. But we’re still being left out of wealth-building conversations, especially when it comes to things like angel investing, equity, and financial freedom. This week, Maggie and Katie go deep on the real money rules that changed their lives—from the 50-20-20-10 budgeting framework to the mental blocks women face when managing money. It’s not just about spreadsheets and savings—this is about power, access, and confidence. In this episode, you’ll hear: How the wrong money mindset is keeping women from getting rich How women are unintentionally transferring wealth to men—and how to stop doing it Why 50-20-20-10 is the budgeting method for ambitious women who want to save, invest, and still live well Why “being good with money” isn’t about coupons or coffee—it’s about knowing your numbers and owning your worth What Maggie and Katie wish more women knew about cash flow, investing, and building wealth on your own terms This isn’t financial advice—it’s a financial awakening. If you’ve ever felt behind, ashamed, or confused when it comes to money, this episode will change the way you think about your bank account, your habits, and your power. Listen now and start acting like the investor you are. CONNECT WITH MAGGIE: INSTAGRAM: ⁠⁠@maggiesellers ⁠⁠ TIKTOK: ⁠⁠@maggiesellers_ ⁠⁠ YOUTUBE: ⁠⁠@hotsmartrich ⁠⁠ LINKEDIN: ⁠⁠Maggie Sellers ⁠⁠ CONNECT WITH KATIE: INSTAGRAM: ⁠⁠⁠@katiesellers_ ⁠⁠⁠ TIKTOK: ⁠⁠⁠@katiesellers_ ⁠⁠⁠ YOUTUBE: ⁠⁠⁠@hotsmartrich ⁠⁠⁠ LINKEDIN: ⁠⁠⁠Katie Sellers⁠ ⁠ READ THE NEWSLETTER: ⁠⁠HSR ICYMI ⁠⁠ SHOP HSR: ⁠⁠HSR MERCH⁠⁠ ⁠⁠SHOP MY⁠⁠ ⁠⁠AMAZON⁠⁠ This episode is produced by HSR Media, a division of Creative MES LLC, with support f... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Hi, Angels. Welcome back to another episode of Hot Smart Rich the podcast. I am back with Miss Katie Sellers. Hello. You have lipstick on your teeth. I do. Like a lot. Do you want us to restart? No, let's just roll. That is the best blessing of working with your sister is like you just have no filter and you can say whatever. Yeah, no, that's literally the best. I never once have to think about, like, what are the words that are about to come out of my mouth? Well, I can't really say anything because I'm in my ugly era. Okay, we can't say that, maybe.

Yeah, we can. I'm in my ugly era. Okay. Like, I don't feel good, you know? It's like I think I've worked so long, obviously, an inner confidence, but I would be lying if I said the way I look doesn't affect the way that I feel. And post-surgery, I just don't feel like myself. like I'm so swollen. I've definitely gained some weight from not being able to work out.

Mental health has gone down. So I'm in my ugly era. I'm embracing my ugly era. You're in your post-surgery depression era. Yeah. But it's hard. It is hard. Which is why we just recorded a whole episode on my surgery.

Yeah. And I don't know which one will come out first, but we're at the Spotify Studios. We're still that podcast team that like we wish we could do a podcast. of all like my gossip trends on consumer news, like on a Monday and then put it out on a Wednesday, but we just like don't have the infrastructure yet. However, we just started getting managed by Spotify. Yeah. And like, they're a creator team. And so we do have access to the microphones, the studio, a team here, an engineer. So like hopefully these podcasts can run out a little bit faster. I feel like we'll make it easier. Yeah. Yeah. It is so much work to do a podcast. So much work to do

And so expensive. Like I think we've probably spent tens of thousands of dollars getting this thing off the ground. I think that that is actually something that we should do a whole podcast on. It's like if you were to start a podcast, what do you wish you would have known and how much money we've spent? And it's so fitting because like today what we really wanted to talk about was money. Money.

We were going to do like 50, 2020, 2010, which is our budgeting methodology we both live by. Yeah. But we were like, let's just do like a high level intro to money. Because I think that's what people have loved about the podcast. women just don't talk about money. So like it'll be an interesting episode. I also keep thinking I'm touching your leg under the table, but it's like a furry pole. I'm like Katie really needs to get her legs back. I need to shave my legs. We're going to get into all that because that's in our budgeting template as desires. But let's just start off. I've loved asking guests this question. What is the

latest consumption habits that you've spent money on? So the last thing that you purchased and then the most expensive last thing that you purchased. Okay. Well, I just did spend. $18 on two drinks of coffee. That's disgusting. Disgusting. I was like, oh my God, this is insane. On whole milk. On whole milk.

And non-dairy milk is more. It is. Yeah. It's like 80 cents usually more. Yeah. So that was like, wow. And then the most expensive thing I've bought recently was for the first time in over three years, I redid my Botox.

Yeah, I was wondering because obviously you didn't get Botox while you were pregnant. And then you didn't while you were breastfeeding. But then why did you wait like a year and a half? I think it. it's like, you know, you're in your post-surgery depression era. It's like you're kind of just in your postpartum mom. I didn't have postpartum depression, but just like funk a little bit. We're like, but don't you want to like get back to what you were like before then?

There's like post-partum body. You do. But it's also just like it takes effort. And when everything in your life is effort with a kid, I'm like, I just put it off. I don't know why. So how much did Botox just cost you? I did like, I don't know. full face you did a full face like I did yeah full face what is a full face so tell us like you got your

11s I got my 11s I got like a whole bunch in my forehead I just like spit across the people um my crow's feet and then as I've aged like I'm 35 so my mouth has started to like droop droop down so like my mouth and then also in my neck So this is actually something that I really have been waiting getting because I've noticed my neck has my skin's amazing for 32. I've been my ugly era, but my skin is great. It's giving. Like it's giving. But my neck I hate when people touch my neck. So I've always said like no to lasers, no to anything there. And now I feel like I have tech neck. What's tech neck? Techneck is when your neck goes like this because you work so much. Oh, on a computer. And so you get wrinkles. Techneck could be like your phone. You're always down. Your computer. You're always down. So you're aging so much in your neck. So you're aging so much in your neck. You're. neck not really on your face. So I have like a 25 year old face, I'll say. And like a 32 year old neck. Or like a 40 year old neck. Yeah. So like I really need to get my neck sorted. So okay, all that Botox, you don't know how many units you did? No. And how much was it? It was nine hundred Canadian dollars. That's a lot. A lot. And then so you know how you had gotten your jaw? Like I was like,

maybe I should get that too. And then the day of she was like, yeah, we can add it on. It'll be another 600 and I was like, I think we're going to have to wait on that. Honestly, though, it is the thing that has definitely changed the face, the shape of my face. I obviously have intense inflammation and swelling, so I wouldn't touch it right now. But I was noticing that my face was getting wider as I was aging. And it's just from my anxiety, like I bite down on my jaw so much. Yeah. And so getting it in your masseter, I don't know what it's called, but like getting it in your jaw was the change of like slimming down my face. Yeah. So, okay, that's, that's a. That's a. pretty expensive Botox bill. Yeah, it was expensive. Okay. Yeah. Um, my most recent consumption

habits, the last thing that I bought was Goop Kitchen last night, which I had half of for lunch today. Yeah. Which was a great salad. Did you have some of mine? Yeah. Before, like, I didn't have any gluten. Oh, you stole some. You snub, it while you were in the bedroom. It's a really good salad. It's so good. But, um, that's actually something I really, really, really want to focus on with my new living situation is cooking more. Yeah. I think it's so hard cooking for one person. It's so hard. Like not fun. Not fun. You can't experience new things with somebody and like going grocery shopping and the whole thing. It just like hasn't been a priority. Yeah. But I'm hoping that with living with my partner, it'll be fun again. Yeah. So I'm excited to cook because I spend

so much money on food. Yeah. Like I eat breakfast and coffee at home every single day. Although the And espresso just broke, so I've had to, like, buy coffee every single morning. That's also $18. Yeah. The most expensive last thing that I purchased, obviously was what I've talked about before, like my breast augmentation. Those pants that I've been loving that I've been wearing, though they're, it's so funny because, like, they are $300. But I've worn them cost per wear down to, like, I don't even know how much I would have spent

cost per way, like a dollar every time I've wearing them at this point. Yeah. I haven't worn them 300 times. No, but you're down around like the $5 range, I would assume, because you lived in them for straight for like three weeks. Yeah. Yeah. This is the first day I'm wearing jeans. So TPD when this podcast comes out.

Yeah. Anyway, so we're going to talk about money today. And I think it's such an interesting topic for two women to sit down and talk about. Yeah. Because women do not think about money the same way that men think about money. You're also a CPA. Yes. And you spent your entire career in finance.

Yeah. So I think that also does a lot to your psyche. whereas like for me being in the brand side and not being a growth marketer, like we were building brands. Yeah. You weren't spending dollars online. No, but it's like almost worse because there's not that conversion or like that CPM where your mindset towards money as a brand marketer is very different than it is being in a

finance or in a growth marketing role, right? And so I think we come at things from two different perspectives, but we have the same parents and like their perspective on money, which is also. So just like so interesting. So we developed over the last few years this 50, 2020, 2010 budget, which was an iteration of what Elizabeth Warren. Senator Elizabeth Warren and her daughter, wait, I need to get her name so we don't like X the daughter out of this.

Her daughter is Amelia Warren Tagaji. They developed this budgeting tool called 50, 30, 20 that was in this book, All Your Worth, the Ultimate Lifetime Money Plan. And when I was reading it a few years ago, when I was like starting to budget, you and owned my first home at like 26 when I was working at sales force and like tech money. I felt like there was such a lie in this book that it was missing. It's like truly the secrets of the wealth that nobody talks about, but like behind closed doors they do. So I think like women specifically have been lied to a lot about money.

And so I wanted to just like, I don't have a specific agenda, but I just want to like talk about money and ask you other questions and then get into this budget. it. But I think it's always good to start with like a mindset conversation. So I have like a few stories that I want to share around just like how I think women think about money. Yeah. So I remember I was at Freeze a few years ago and this woman who's now involved in the arts who actually went to Harvard and Goldman Sachs, funnily enough as well, she was like one of the first fundraisers at Harvard. And she obviously had to call a lot of people and ask them for money. And she was like, it's so funny because like 30 years later.

there people and women's mindset towards money is still the same that it was when I worked on the Goldman Sachs investment banking floor back 30 years ago. She was saying that men that worked at Goldman Sachs when they would leave and have a business idea, they would be like going around and every guy would throw in like $10, $15,000, $20,000, $25,000, whether it was into like a nightclub or a brand or an alcohol business or whatever it is. And it was like norm. Yeah. Not even a question. It wasn't even a question. Yeah. It wasn't like an FBI interrogation on like exactly where it was going.

And it was just like you're going to go and start something. I'm going to bet on you. And like I'm going to make $25,000 more dollars. So like I'm going to give it to you. Yeah. She's like women need to know everything. Like they need to feel like they can ask a million questions. And I don't think that one is better than the other.

But what she, her story was trying to illustrate to me was that like women are so uncomfortable with the idea of investing money. Yeah. That like they hold onto their cash as if it's finite. It's not infinite. And like what she was trying to share with me is like 30 years later, women still think about money in a way where it's like I'm giving $30,000. I don't know when I'm going to make $30,000 again.

So like I need to really like think through everything. Yeah. But then it's like we see women doing these like crazy shopping halls and like beauty halls on. TikTok and we're in this era where it's like consumption. Consumption driven and it's all about having the next thing. And it's like it's not a problem for women to go and spend on a $20 lipstick. But when they think about these bigger investments, that is where it gets really nervous for them.

And I think it's just like we don't see women talk about money. Yeah. And then on the flip side, we have these women who have actually had these founder exits. Like I can think of one story in particular where I met this female founder who. who had bootstrapped her business and sold it for hundreds of millions of dollars. She, again, bootstrap means you haven't raised outside capital. So even if she had a partner, she owns the majority of the business. And there was an opportunity to get her to invest into a venture capital fund that was aligned with her interests and focus and thesis.

And she decided to do pro bono consulting work and advisory and would rather help female founders getting on the phone with them, consulting on their businesses. and didn't feel, she just didn't understand investing, she said, especially because she had bootstrapped her business, that she was like, I don't feel comfortable putting $500,000 into the fund. And I always, like, that story has stuck with me two years later because it's so backwards. When you told me that, I was, I was shocked. I'm not shocked, though. That's the thing. Like the thing that we teach women is like it's better to be a charity or to give or to give back and be nurturing.

And like I love that. And I don't think it's one or the other. Yeah. But this is the problem that exists today. Women control 85% of consumer spend. We get 2% of venture dollars. I don't know what the exact number is recently, but it operates somewhere between like 7 and 11% of venture capital partners at funds. that make actual investment decisions are women.

Yeah. So if you ever want that number of 2% of female founders to change, you have to have more people that are investing. Yeah. Make decisions to invest in female founders. It's not just going to magically happen. Yeah. The problem is if we have women that have real capital,

like hundreds of millions of dollars in exits, and they are not willing to invest their money, but would rather give advice for free, it seems great. But it's actually one for one. one, it's not one to many. It is actually a disservice to women in general to not have a broader approach and strategy towards money. And step up to the plate and educate yourself on like, okay, I've been able to accomplish success. I now have had this exit. I have capital. And like,

to your point, it is doing a disservice to these female founders because if she's not funding them, the mentor is hell aren't funding them. Well, and that's the other crazy thing about what I started noticing about women founded especially consumer companies is women are. making their husbands and boyfriends rich and they are not getting any of the money, especially if they have a pre-knap agreement where your husband is coming home. Like, I will never forget this when somebody asked me to connect with a private equity person that was going to buy a business that's doing like $400 million. And I have access to this tool. And I know the business. I know the industry really well. I was like, I'm so happy to jump on the phone and give you my insight

as a female consumer into the business plus the actual back end of the technology that I have. and this man knew nothing about the business. Like his assumption was that it was dresses and X, Y, and Z for this specific scenario. Yeah, trying not to get too much way with the business. And I was like, actually, no, their top products are X, Y, and Z. It's actually different. And this is how they're thought about in the market. And it was like, okay, I am definitely not as smart as that man at late stage private equity

and all the things that he knows to look at. But at the end of the day, his. his ultimate research is the consumer. And he's not the consumer. And it's even like what was the feedback that we got on our deal memo for the investment that we're doing right now? Do you remember? They wanted the customer research and we didn't put it in. So they were doing an investment right now into a female founded company that's for females, by females.

I'm planning on using it. You already use it. I already use it. Yep. And we sent the deal memo across to our SPV syndicate. And it's a pretty fucking good deal memo. It is great. The only feedback that we got from mail investors, because they don't understand the market or the consumer, they were like, where are your diligence call notes?

Yeah, like with customer feedback. With customer feedback that we can see like how it stacks up in the market, why people are using it. And it was so funny to me where I was like, we didn't include that because we know the consumer. We are the consumer. We are the consumer. And then 90% of people that we send the deal memo to were the consumer. because we're mostly investing women money. And I want to be really clear, this is not an anti-man podcast or syndicate.

Like I love hosting co-ed events for investors and having multiple sexes and deals. Like I do not, I actually say no to most female founder events now because I'm like, the real world is men. Like we are, especially this deal that we're doing, you need a man and a woman to be able to create the product. It is in the fertility space. So like whether, unless you're using IVF, like you need two sexes to be able to do that. So this is not the anti-man podcast. The reason I'm just being a little bit shock value is like that is the difference between

women and men. And I think it drives me crazy because we as the consumer are taught to hide all of that when we're in the work world. Like you, we just had to, we just filmed another podcast about my surgery and how like if you were on Wall Street and you were like, I'm going to getting an NFTBA, natural fat transfer breast augmentation, you would be judged incredibly hard. And yet, if all these men on Wall Street in private equity are wanting to buy a medical aesthetics provider and roll it up and sell it off or go public with it, it's like they're going to call the use and figure out like the space. Yeah,

the customer research. How fucked up is that? No, it's so fucked. So I think the mindset of women towards money needs to shift. And I think it's interesting, like, growing up, what was your mindset towards money? Well, I mean, oh, this is so hard because, like, we did grow up in a risk adverse household. We didn't really talk about money that much. Never talked about money. We were so blessed to grow up in a situation where we never had to think about money being a problem. And I feel like that partially of like not talking about it has kind of done us a disservice later on in life where it's like it was never talked about.

Yeah. But then our parents did a lot of great things where like we were put in control of our financial destiny very early. We're like six, seven years old and we're going to get an RBC debit card. Yeah. And we would get an allowance every week. We had to go and deposit it in the bank. Yeah. We went to college and our dad was.

like I'm not paying your tuition for you. I'm depositing it into your bank account and you're responsible for making. For actually paying it. Yeah, for making the payments on time. And that's actually such a interesting. I actually kind of forgot all of that. Yeah. I black out a lot of stuff.

I don't even know why. But it's interesting because I agree and it's one thing I never do or I try not to do, which is this term called ostriching. Yeah. Which is essentially ostrids like put their head in the sand and you pretend like you don't like see the problem. It doesn't exist. It's kind of like.

if you have a warning sign that maybe something's wrong with your body and you wait and you end up like with stage four versus like stage one, it's a lot harder to treat, you know? So similar with your financial health, it's like the number one mistake that you are making is like running away from your problems by not dealing with it and putting your head in the sand. So like my HSR rich girl tip number one is every single morning wake up and check your bank account. Yeah. Like check your credit card statement. And I think that was something I've tried not. I've always known even if it's like, oh my God. especially when we were starting this business and like expenses were adding up.

I was like, it's not as if I can pay off my credit card. Like let's just say I had 10,000 on it. Like maybe one month it was like nine. I would always try to not spend where it was like we were going over. But when you are starting a new business, it's like there are expenses. Yeah. Especially when you're like, I looked at the Amex credit card bill the other day for the first time. And it was like $18,000 from December because we were doing so many events for our company.

And you're like, holy crap. Yes. But like one thing I've never done on a personal finance level is like ostrich because I think when you pretend like things don't exist. It's way worse. It's way worse when you have to deal with it. Yeah, yeah. And so if you're listening to this and you're like trying to become financially independent or smarter with your money, the number one mistake you're making is thinking like money doesn't exist because it's like a credit card or it's like TikTok shop. And I think going back to our upbringing, those little things that mom and dad did actually, although it wasn't something.

I've thought about until this moment, it really did empower us to feel like we were in control of the destiny. Yeah. And I think we're so privileged to be able to sit here and like talk about that because so many people listening like didn't have the luxury where their dad is like, I'm going to send you money to put into your bank account and like you go and pay it. But it's like we didn't have to do that. Yeah. Although growing up, I had a job waitressing, even when we were away for school, it was like I had to leave and like go to be a waitress. Like go and do like all the odd jobs I hadn't called. which was like being a promoter, being a writer. Like, I worked.

You always had a job. Always. Yeah. I was always a fucking hustler. Yeah, you were a hustler. Because also, like, I liked, I knew I liked nice things super early on. Yeah. And I remember, like, dad and mom, mom still, I don't think owns a designer handbag.

She has a Gucci bag. She has one Gucci bag. Yeah. Mom and dad drove the same cars for 15 years. Yeah. They are just not flashy people and didn't understand designer. So, like, for me, I liked designer from a very early age. And so I remember when I bought myself my first Louis Vuitton bag and then I sold it,

mom was like, why would you have bought the bag and sell it? And I was like, because I made a profit, mom. Yeah. And so I always worked because although we were really blessed in a lot of ways, it was like for what we're going to talk about, which is like the needs that you have. Yeah. There was nothing that was there for desires. And as somebody that liked fashion and beauty.

Yeah, there was no desires. Well, yeah, I know what you mean. There was desires. Like, we can't sit here and act like we didn't have a lot of privilege, like going to summer camp and like doing on trips. Going on trips twice a year. Like, we did have a lot of privilege. Yeah.

But I'm talking about financial freedom to do whatever I wanted with money. That was not there. So like starting my first business at seven or eight Maggie's pet business from that day forward I had a job, whether it was like taking care of people's pets, literally like hustling around the neighborhood trying to babysit for people when I was. was like 10 cooking like doing whatever yeah and flipping handbags flipping handbags promoting in college like writing convincing you to wrap a million Christmas gifts and like me sell people like wrapping services like and I was put to work yeah I've always been the visionary entrepreneur

that's like I need to make money yeah I think we come at this conversation from like a super privileged background where like our version of money has always been very different than a lot of people listening to this. But I think that's why we're so open about it because we're like, there are secrets of the rich that like I want to democratize. And mom and dad, they were like dad was a taxi driver. Mom was a waitress to pay for dad's law school. And then dad worked his ass off to get to where he was able to have financial freedom

from being a taxi driver. Yeah. I think that's why now that I'm even in a different circle in L.A. where like the wealth in the U.S. is just so much. bigger and so different than Canadian wealth. It's like I'm learning things that I also never experienced. Like I'll give you a great example. So when I was like thinking about raising a fund a few years ago, I met with this man who had raised a $100 million solo fund. And he was like, the best way to raise money is being around rich people. And I was like, what advice is this?

Like this is horrible advice. And then I kind of was thinking about it being like, like business is built on relationships. Yeah. And being at certain things. And that's why business is so done on the golf course and like who you know. And you can really build a business if you have the chops and the skills based on relationships. Yeah. And he was like suggesting to literally like go and put myself at like this, I don't even know how to say at this place and like the south of France to go and like raise money. I'm like, I'm not going to do that. Yeah. But I think it did make this shift. my brain, which was like, wait, like, if you do open up access for yourself to certain things,

like you are given opportunities that you otherwise wouldn't have. And that's why people pay to go to, like, Harvard and Columbia. Because it's paying for their network. Yeah. And I think that there's a way to do it with our budgeting technique. And that is how I've been able to start angel investing. You've bought a home. Like, there's a lot of financial freedom that we've unlocked for ourselves with obviously the understanding of like we didn't have debt graduating. college. And like we did have a lot of financial privilege. But I hope that is not someone going to hate on that. It's like almost like thank you for sharing like what you've learned and like taking us with you on the journey. Hopefully. We can only fingers crossed. Yeah. So when you think about

money. Yeah. What's the first thing that comes to your brain? I just see green. You see Botega. I know. I see like a U.S. dollar bill. money it's kind of is sometimes what I think like as a woman I just it is even though I'm a CFO I'm a CPA

I run the finances for our business it's still kind of like I don't want to have to think about it I am the opposite I love money and I think about money as a tool so I've always thought about money as like super infinite

and like I've always had this underlying thought that I was going to be successful. Yeah. And I think that adds a different level of pressure where I'm like, okay, I haven't made it yet. But it's really interesting because I think that as a female, not many females think about money as a tool, but I've always thought about it that way. Yeah. And I've always bet on myself.

And I think that's also another secret of the rich is like you can play it safe. Mm-hmm. But I remember dad saying growing up, like if you ever want to be wealthy, like you have to be an entrepreneur. And so I think there was a period in my life where I went from having a shit ton of savings. Like I sold my house in Toronto made like let's, I don't even remember what it was, but like let's just say it was like $200,000 of profit. Yeah. And I, Canadian. And then I basically like, use that money and used it as a way to quit my full-time job and get a visa, which like was an investment of like over $100,000 into the U.S. economy to essentially like start betting on myself.

And it started as consulting. And then. has turned into HSR and a media company. But like I took what could have been a $200,000 profit and could have like just done the safe thing. And completely was like, I'm going to drain my savings and like bet on myself in that I think I can like 10x my money if I start things myself and can like write my own destiny. Yeah. So I think that's how I've started to really change my mindset and change other people's mindsets towards money. But as a CFO, does that make you like so nervous?

I think like, okay, actually when I do think about it from a CFO perspective, I am the same. It's a tool. You like, you spend it and there's a result. And you should be spending it on things that actually give you the biggest result of like the objective of what you're trying to do. And I've seen that in practice, like building a billion dollar business. Like you have to spend money to make money. Wait, there was this thing on TikTok that I really wanted to ask you about that was like the CFO and the CEO member. Oh, yeah.

Oh, my God. I so resonated with that. So there was this TikTok video that was like the CEO with these grandiose plans. Yeah. Very much me. Like, we're going to do X, Y, and Z. And honestly, I felt like this year you really found your voice, like, raining me in and being like, we actually can't invest in all of these things. Like, we have to pick one and, like, see if it's going to pay off.

And I think that's what's like even been the most interesting. Like, we'll just be transparent. We just bought on PR. Yeah. And it's an expense. Like, we weren't really. anticipating or like it's hard because like can you measure a direct ROI with PR right and I think you are kind of like I'm not sure and I was very much like I'm willing to make this bet that this is

what the business needs at this time to like bring the podcast to the masses and like bring financial freedom to other people and like spread the mission of HSR and but I was very clear with you then we can't spend on these other things exactly yeah and so there was this TikTok video that was like a CFO and a CEO that were like really at odds with where the business was going to spend money. And I think it's taken us a year of working together or more to get to this place where I understand that we can't bet everything, which is what I've done in my life. Like the business needs to have safety and security and like profitability.

But it's just something that startups don't talk about, which is like how close they are to like zero in their bank account all the time. And that was honestly, when you think about money and the anxiety that can come with money, for me being this early stage startup, because I've never been before, that was wild for me. And I have gone through like wild ups and downs where like you've had to talk me off ledges. It was like a meme I sent you last week because last year when we like we've talked with us on the podcast, but like it was so sketchy. We were like, how is this going to happen. I've, like, quit my full-time job. I have a baby. I have a mortgage. I've been dipping into my savings, obviously, for, like, years now. And I was like,

I just believe in myself. Like, I know that we're onto something. And then this year, like, it just was such a different situation. Like, we're recording at the Spotify studio. Like, there's just so much stuff happening. Yeah. But you literally sent me a meme the other day of, like, a dog with its eyes, like, with the fire. All around. It's like, everything is fine. everything's fine and the room is on fucking fire. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've gone through a crazy, I think, evolution of how I view money and like being

comfortable in really uncomfortable situations. But honestly, one of the reasons that I no longer wanted to be a CFO was exactly what you're describing, the push and pull with the CEO and the whole executive team of constantly being the person who has to say no, it sucks. Yeah. That's actually one of the things I hate about being an investor as much as I love like being in early stage businesses and helping people grow. Your job is to say no. Yeah. And it's hard. It's hard. Like people resent you. They don't understand the full picture. They think you're not creative. They think you're not creative. Or like you, we were even talking about like a founder we know who's super secretive with money.

and like the distrust that it like can breed through an entire team and how toxic it can be like it's a really really challenging thing for startups and like to figure out how they're even going to deal with it communicate it like it's yeah but it's honestly so interesting like because I feel like there's more businesses that are especially early stage that are secretive about their cost to their employees than not because they're like if an employee thinks that I make if my let's just say my journal. How much did this cost us to make?

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No. Okay. So like that's not including shipping. No. Then you think about like building your website, having your returns, having someone on customer service, like shipping it out to the customer. Like if you're selling a journal for $55 and you're, we're basically covering our cost. Like we're making zero money on the journal.

And it's like a marketing tool. Yeah. And I think like our transparency with pricing is actually when we have a larger organization is what is going to empower our employees to like truly understand business. Yeah. Because I think so many founders that are like, I don't want my customers, my employees to know how much it costs me to make it. But like, if you just explain to your employees, like we have to pay your salaries and your health care and your insurance. And we have to ship customers their products. And we have to cover customers. It adds up. It adds up. And so what

we experienced a lot was like, it's the. balance of the education to educate people. We're not making any money. And then that scares the shit out of some people because they're like, what do you mean I work at a business that doesn't make any money? Am I going to have a job? Which again, it's like even in this environment, it's so it's honestly interesting to figure out which businesses like won't be around. Yeah. And we just had somebody on our podcast that shared that they were at a $20 million top line revenue. They went through doing $20 million, hired 30 people, had to scale back to three people and fire almost everybody. Yeah. And like this is, I think, why money creates so much

anxiety and why this idea of like this budgeting tool is actually, I think the freedom, even just with your mindset shift of knowing that like you have everything you need on a personal level and then like you don't feel guilty about the things you're going to invest in. So when we were developing this and like we spent literally months putting this together. Yeah. We really like laid out exactly what we just. talked about like our upbringing, our relationship with money, and then like what our method is compared to the original method. It's outdated. And we see all these videos on TikTok of like, the reason you can't afford a home is because you're buying Starbucks every single day.

And like, I think that there is some truth to that. But I also think that is a lie that's being told where it's just the cost of living is so expensive now. The cost of homes are so expensive now. But the original method of the 50, 30, 20 rule that was popularized by Senator Elizabeth Warren and her daughter, Amelia Warren, is you do 50% for your needs, 30% wants, and 20% saves. And I feel like it missed this idea of investing in yourself and like betting on yourself and putting yourself into situations that would open up opportunities that otherwise wouldn't exist.

And so we developed it where it's 50% your needs, 20% your saves, 20% your desires, and 10% your goals. So when we're thinking about your needs, it's so funny I wrote in here, like, we all need things to live. You have to get clear on what exactly those are. And I bet you the list is shorter than you think it is. A place to live, your utilities, your cell phone, food, essential clothing, transportation, medical care, insurance, work related and minimum payments on your debt. It's actually like super simple. Like you don't need Netflix to live. You don't need Netflix to live. Which we'll get into of like what actually would you categorize that as. And there's actually a ton of questions in the workbook of like these are questions determine if you actually need something, if something is really considered a need. Can you live in safety and in dignity without this purchase? If you lost your job, would you continue to spend on this item? Could you live without this purchase for six months?

Like if you actually asked yourself that question, it is. You wouldn't spend on a lot. You wouldn't spend on a lot. So if you feel like your spending is out of control, ask yourself these three questions. Yeah. Can you live in safety and dignity without this purchase? If you lost your job, would you continue to spend on this purchase? Could you live without this purchase for six months?

Easy. Easy. Yeah. Then we have your saves. And savings are things like the future. So money retirement, your traditional bank account, your debt repayment beyond your minimum payment. So like that's where your minimum payment actually goes into your needs.

And then your debt repayment beyond your minimum actually goes into your savings. savings and that's at 20%. So I think that's the biggest. No, no, no, they have saves there before too. They had 30% for once. So this is. And I will say saves is actually like a hack where you can be spending money to make money. And this is like what we were talking about before is women's mindset towards money. And even the fear of like, oh, well, I don't know what investment vehicles I should use. Start so simple and just find a robo advisor like rocket money or whatever it is. Like, I don't think Rocket Money is a Robbo Advisor. Oh, it's not.

I don't know the U.S. ones. I was going to say, wealth simple. So I was going to say, like, that's the first thing that I did was, like, wealth simple. I remember I took, like, some money that I had made at Salesforce and put it into Well Simple. And then it was so sad when Wellth Simple shut down their U.S. business. I had to switch, and now I use Betterment. Okay. And so Betterment is actually a female-led wealth management, Robo Advisor.

Yeah. So it's like, this is a hack. When you are investing money, it's making you more money. And sometimes you even get tax breaks. Like, it's just something that even if you don't know where. to start and you feel scared, open a robo-advisor account and just start putting a hundred dollars in a month. Yeah. Just start there. Yeah. Okay. So that's your saves. Then this is like the big one. This is your desires. And I wrote in the workbook like this is where the secret sauce is because

I think that there is obviously non-negotiables of life. And then there are things that like you need and then there's things that you want. Yeah. And the desires is very different. then what we have labeled as your goals. And that is like the big hurrah moment of this budgeting method versus the other. And the desires are, and I put this in here for me, like dinners out with friends, travel overseas, beauty treatments, seasonal wardrobe refresh, gelax manicure, this is like obviously not all the time. That's like the whole kitchen sink of like everything.

And like you knows about me. Like literally I wish I had my lip stuff in my pocket. but like there is nothing left of my lip stuff anymore. Yeah. I don't go to Sephora and buy random beauty products. Like, yeah, I go twice a year and I do it during a sale, during a sale and do a huge hall. Yeah.

And then, yes, like maybe once every three months, I'll see a product like this primer that I just got. That's the one thing I've bought in literally three months. Yeah. For from Sephora. Mm-hmm. So when you actually list out your desires, you can total up, like how much it's actually going to cost you.

And then, yeah, keep going. And the other thing I think with desires. And this is like, again, it goes back to the mindset of like, budgeting shouldn't be limiting. It should give you financial freedom to spend within your means. But it also is a tool for you to then manifest like, okay, I'm actually also going to do, what's my laundry list of every single like wonderful thing I want to experience in this life? You can add that up and figure out, okay, how much money do I actually need to live that lifestyle?

And this budgeting method also gives you the tools to then invest in your goals to hit those milestones so you can achieve the desires that you want in your life. Yeah. And it's so funny because like this is why I love this budgeting tool and like this worksheet is I literally wrote here and let's see. This is from 2024, like early 24. The desires, we actually have a worksheet where you rank the importance of it for you. So you say like what is the most important?

I put back then like Pilates was the number one because I love a strong body and a low impact helps me manage my PCOS. Like that's literally what I put. The last thing that I put in here of like order of importance, which again is still something that I want, but wasn't as important to me as a personal trainer. I said I get the same results for my Pilates class at a third of the cost. Yeah. So it's like if I could and I'm making enough money to validate that, sure, I'll bring it back in. But like right now it's just not a priority to me based on my rank. Yeah. So there's a lot of ways that you can actually like think through what you want to spend money on. And, And that goes back to the point of like, it's not the Starbucks coffee every day that's like why you can't afford a home.

It's because people nowadays in this consumption society, they're spending on every single desire and thinking they're ostriching, oh, like, it's all just going to work out. And then you're the dog with the fire in the back. Like, it's all going to be fine. And it's really not. Yeah. This is so fun getting to read this back. But like, it's a really good workbook. It is.

We even made a pyramid of like, okay, here, this is sick. The hot, smart rich desire is like, be intentional with what you do. desire and spend money on the things that matter most to you. So I actually put in here, like, what are things that, like, I'm rarely going to do, like, only when you achieve a milestone. So for me, that's, like, a luxury good. I don't just go out and buy, like, Chanel. No, we never have. I will go in. If I achieve something, I will go and do that. But, like, it's not something I'm doing on the regular. Then out here is something like that's never outgrown. Smoking, which I can't about used to do. But, like, that also adds up. Vaping.

Hair extensions. Hidden fees. Like, not actually reading a big. Like all of these little things like Gab was saying in her episode is actually what adds up to like drain your bank account. Yeah. Then things that I rarely do. Alcohol. Very rarely drink. Parking. I really only like Courtney's talking like we don't valet.

Yeah. Water bottles. Like it's just like the things that you are like, what am I never going to spend money on? What am I rarely? What's a necessity for me that is like a Jell X manicure, hard copy books I have put in here, Botox. then when it makes sense. So it just helps you understand what is important to you, how much you should be spending on it and like how important is it for you against everything else?

Like you have to go through the mental exercise for yourself of like, what do I care about? What do you care about? And if like you care about certain things, it's okay to spend money on it. Yeah, exactly. And then this is where the difference comes in with goals, which is like the 10% that I feel like is really the difference here is like this is the environment. investment in yourself. And like we've talked about even with like secrets of the rich, it's like having access, paying for access. Yeah. Is a secret that like this is why people join groups like

YPO or they join membership clubs or they go to certain cultural moments like the Super Bowl where they know that there's going to be potential clients. And it was so cool once we put the budget out because one of the women that's followed me for years, she's the founder of a snack company. I made this video that was like the ROI of why I'm sending myself to Super Bowl. And it was like we spent $3,000 getting me to Super Bowl having like a hotel, flights, hair and makeup wardrobe, wardrobe, like everything that like needed to be. And again, like, disclaimer that like we were invited to the right events. Yeah.

I was like very transparent about that. Yeah. And we got everything that we wanted. Our goal was to meet LPs to potentially invest in our fund or deals that we're doing with SPV. You need to be around people that have the money to be investing, $10,000 minimum, ideally $25,000 to $50,000. We wanted to meet big brands that had the money to like underwrite all the content that

we're doing with HsR. Those brands are activating at Super Bowl. And so it was like, you got brand deals from it. And we got brand deals from it. Yeah. And so it was like there was actually an R.O.I to the investment. Yeah. And it was so cool because when this woman, this female founder, followed my budgeting technique,

she was like, I not only, when you're an entrepreneur, the learned, the, the lines are really blurred in terms of like what's your business and what's your personal life. Yeah. And she was like, I use your budgeting even for my startup. Yeah. So she was like, I did an ROI on going to this conference that I otherwise never would have gotten to. It's literally the conference that got me my biggest investor and got me into Costco.

Oh, amazing. And it's like actually, you know, scout my portfolio company for her to swap. She just disclosed online how much it costed her to actually go to Expo West. Yeah. And it's that type of transparency. and then the follow up from it. Yeah. Where it's like, these are now decisions that people can weigh of like,

what do you want to spend money on to actually get what you want out of your life and be control of your financial destiny. Yeah. Like if you feel like your spending is out of control and you feel like you're not making steps forward, you are not being clear about what you're spending money on and what's important to you. Yeah. And once you do that, the consumption and like the shopaholic behavior stops.

Yeah. I think I've bought four things off of TikTok shop. my entire time being on TikTok. I just don't spend on that kind of stuff. I never have. I'm not an impulse buyer of random things I see online. And it honestly, like, it makes me sad for the people who are stuck in that cycle. Well, and the thing is, is like, the thing you have to do is, like, you can't feel sad for yourself. You have to take action and take accountability and move forward to get yourself out of that situation. And like, even today, I'm asking, like, can we please, like, If I order something from Amazon, I see so many people order stuff and then it not work out

and then be like, it's only $10. I'm not going to return it. I save a box of things that I'm like, this didn't work. This HGMI cable that was $7. We ordered two of them. We need to return them. And it's like, if you are careless about what you're spending money on, it's going to go away. Yeah.

So the 10% of your goals is the investment in yourself. This is the best example as somebody that wants an Hermes bag so badly. Like, I have goals of buying a Hermes bag one day, but that is not going to help me personally or professionally. That is not going to further my career having an Hermes bag. It's a desire. It's a desire. So I think that's where, like, language even gets really confusing around, like, it's a great

investment where it's like, if you are investing in yourself and your business and your career, it's probably not an Hermes bag. That can be a desire. It doesn't, desire doesn't mean it's like money down the drain. No. It's just, it's not an investment in yourself to further your professional or personal life, in my opinion. And so the things that I'm interested in putting 10% of my money towards are things like joining a membership club to expand my personal and professional network, learning to speak French, angel investing, obtaining a named role, and taking an Harvard business review class on consumer psychology, furthering my education. Like in this workbook, I literally talk about my personal goals.

And it's a little outdated now. It's like from last year. But the reason I say that is I've gotten so much heat from people that I say angel investing is a horrible way to make money. The only reason I have ever angel invested is to bring companies to the marketplace that should exist and don't. And to expand my network, my knowledge and my personal development in my career. Yeah.

There is no other. I am, I don't think I'll make money from. angel investing. Like, I honestly don't. Yeah. But the opportunities that angel investing has provided me to further my career and my education is an expense that I am okay with. Yeah.

It's also why last year, when money was a bit tighter, I didn't make an angel investment. It wasn't in, like, I don't want to make smaller investments now. Like, I'm looking to, like, now that I really know what I'm doing, it's like, I want to go and have an influential position in a company and really be able to, like, do something with it. that like it needs to be enough for me now. And last year it wasn't the time for me to make angel investments. No.

It wasn't the time on both like it wasn't financially the right time. And it also wasn't the place that you needed to be spending your time. Well, and I also think it's like going back to the reasons. It's like I felt like I was at a place where it was so overwhelming last year with so many things going on that adding another investment to the Rolodex or like my parents. or like my pipeline would have just been. It was overwhelming. It was not, again, we are so clear on what we're spending money on. And there's always a conversation of like, is this going to matter?

Is this the right time to do this? And it's not to say that we've never made mistakes. But like I think when you do make mistakes personally or professionally with spending money, it's like the ability to really sit with it, talk about it, make sure you learn from it. And you don't make the same mistake again. Yeah, yeah. I think we could talk about money forever. And this is definitely not going to be the last time that we do talk about money.

But I just wanted to end this episode with some hot, smart, rich money affirmation. So you are going to repeat after me. Okay. And then if you're listening to this and you want to start taking control of your financial destiny as soon as this episode is done, respond when Katie responds to my affirmation. Okay. Money flows to me. Money flows to me.

Life is always working out for me. Life is always working out for me. There are no limits to what I can and will achieve. There are no limits to what I can and will achieve. I am financially free because I am aware and in control of my life. I am financially free because I am aware and in control of my life. I am an excellent money manager. I am an excellent money manager.

Everything will get better when I take inventory and action. Everything will get better when I take inventory and action. Money is a tool, not the solution. Money is a tool, not the solution. I spend my money with intention. I spend my money with intention. And money is a currency that flows in and out easily to me. Money is a currency that flows in and out freely to me.

Mic drop. Mike drop. Thank you guys so much for listening. We hope that you love this episode. If you want more episodes like this, please let us know. And as always, please rate review and subscribe. And I hope that when you're done listening to this, you know and continue to build your worth. And then please make sure to review, subscribe.

Love you.