Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Maggie Sellers on Why It’s Time to Get the Prenup, Call Out Your Copycats, and Stop Doing Work for Free (ft. Katie Sellers)

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

Weddings. Wealth. Women doing free work. This week, Hot Smart Rich is back with sisters Maggie and Katie Sellers—talking candidly about navigating money in relationships, the pressure of influencer wedding culture, and what happens when someone starts copying your brand move for move. (Hint: you trademark or die.) From a quick catch-up post Maggie's Euro trip to a 400% raise for the DCC, this episode covers personal stories, hard-earned lessons, and straight-up tactical advice on everything from prenups to trademarking to finding a partner who gets your ambition. If you’re navigating wedding pressure, financial conversations in your relationship, or trying to protect your brand from copycats—this one’s for you. ⸻ Key Takeaways Mixed finances doesn’t mean mixed values.Maggie and Katie break down how to approach money in relationships, what to consider before combining finances, and why a prenup is self-respect—not pessimism. Wedding culture is spiraling.From Sophia Richie Grainge to the Bezos/Sanchez media circus, we dissect the current state of influencer weddings—and how to stay grounded in your own vision. You’re not crazy—they’re copying you.Maggie opens up about the reality of being copied and why protecting your intellectual property is not optional. Trademark early, trademark everything. The Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders effect.The power of reality TV is underestimated—especially when building in public. We explore how narrative-driven platforms shape culture and why founders should pay attention. Women need to stop doing free work.Katie shares the moment that led to a 409% raise—and why advocating for yourself is the most HSR move you can make. AI is not optional.We break down why creators must start experimenting with AI tools (yes, even if you’re not “technical”) and how to think bigger than ChatGPT. Supportive partners are a strategic advantage.Maggie shares the top questions to ask when dating to find someone who supports—not competes with—your ambition. ⸻ Links Use ⁠⁠⁠⁠Opus Clip⁠⁠⁠⁠ to turn long videos into shorts. ⸻ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ If you like what you hear, rate, review, and subscribe to Hot Smart Rich, the podcast supporting women who own their worth — in business, wealth, and life. ⁠Subscribe on Youtube⁠ ⸻ 💌Own your worth — and build the life you want. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter, the no-BS guide to startup life, consumer brands, and becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self, written by Maggie Sellers. Join 250,000+ women building wealth, confidence, and community on their own terms. ⁠Subscribe here!⁠ ⸻ Follow Maggie here: Instagram: ⁠@maggiesellers⁠ TikTok: ⁠@maggiesellers_ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Maggie Sellers⁠ ShopMy: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Katie Sellers, are you ready to get hot, smart rich? I'm so ready to get hot, smart rich. And I'm very excited because I feel like I haven't seen you in like weeks. I was actually thinking the same thing. Like being away is amazing, but being home is also amazing. There's no place like home.

No. So for those of you that haven't been following along, because I've been so much better at Instagram stories and TikTok. actually. I just got home from like two and a half weeks in Europe. I'm home for 36 hours flying to New York. When this comes out, I'll be in New York with Katie. Then I'm flying back to LA on Friday. I have a few days at home and then I'm back to Europe for a bit. So this feels like a very nice way to just cement that I'm home. I think because we recorded like so many episodes at once and then they've been rolling out while I've been gone, like this feels so

foreign to me. I know. It feels weird to me too, even getting ready for today. I'm like, oh, wait, we haven't done this in a while. Well, also just like when I'm away, I don't know why. Like, I start out my trips, like, so in my perfect era, like, my whole nails are done. I'm ready to do my makeup. I have my outfits picked out.

And then as the trip goes on, I enter my ugly era. And, like, my leg hairs have grown out. Like, my nails are falling off. Like, I am just so ready to be put back together. So doing my makeup was so cathartic today. Like I just felt like I was back, if that makes sense. And you have like your high bun, your slick back, like you're back in your Maggie L.A. era. Yeah, except I haven't washed my hair in like a few days.

So this was just because I was short on time today because I'm fitting a lot into the next few weeks. So let's just recap the trip really quickly because not that I'm like a travel agent, but I do feel like there is an opportunity for a business to be built in like, really good travel recommendations. Like, I think substack is amazing, and that's where I find a lot of my recommendations. I've been trying to be a lot better at, like, what I liked, what I didn't like, different areas. But we went to Paris to start, and it was amazing. We did all of the things I've never done, and a lot of the same things.

The highlight was definitely Roland Garros. And then we spent some time in Greece, which was my first time. And very interestingly, tourism and Santorini and Mekino's have been reported to be down this year. And the island that we went to, which is Milos, was actually up. So I have a feeling that that is going to be like the new next island. And if you're going to Greece, it has to be on your itinerary. We also didn't know if we wanted to do Santorini because it is like so touristy. But it was one of our favorites.

We loved it. It's very like sisterhood of the traveling pants. Another movie I've never seen. I've also never seen, no, and I've never seen Mamma Mia. But so I think like, yeah, the trip was really good. I think one of the things that I still need to work on is keeping a routine while we're traveling because Courtney and my lifestyles are just so different. And like when you're a girl, you just appreciate how much more time you have to put it into like your appearance.

And then that takes away from the time that you can do working out, that you can do working. And it's so evident when you're traveling with somebody that's the opposite sex for, two and a half weeks where it's like all the time that I'm spending getting ready, doing my hair, doing my makeup, doing all the things, he's working. So he gets like a full eight or nine hour workday where I only get like a five or a six hour work day because our schedule and we're going away is very much like we wake up. He immediately answers emails where I'm trying to do like my morning affirmations and my journaling and like going and clearing my head. Then we have breakfast. Then we do a workout. Then I take time to get.

get ready. He's also then working. And then we do a little sightseeing during the middle of the day. And then when we get back, it's like we're both working, but our schedules are just so different. Where on days where I have to film or record, like, I'm not doing anything for the day. And then the unfortunate thing is that as soon as you wake up at night, like, you're basically working because the time zone is that everyone else is up. So it's challenging. I think I'm going to get better at it as I go. I'm going for another few weeks, and so I'm just going to have to power through. What are all the things that you think went well on this trip? Because like all the content was amazing and you guys had such a great time. And from other trips in the past, like, I heard from

you more. You were having fun. Well, it's interesting because I think this is where I struggle so much. And I think every corporate girly listening to this will feel this like when you spend 10 years grinding, the idea that, like, you can make your own schedule and, like, do work at night or in the morning and not in the middle of the day, to me, brings me, like, so much anxiety. And so this trip was the first time where I was like, I am going to lean into my life. Like, my life is a business. And for so long, I have focused on, like, just the very specific parts of HSR, the things that I feel like people want for me, which is like how to get hotter, smarter, richer, not like the fun that goes into life. And so I think this trip, I really leaned into like all the little things that

make me me and really trying to build my world be so much bigger than just like what I've been known for in the past. And so as an example, like, I would feel myself like trying to speak English or trying to speak French. And I would never have thought to make that content before. But I think if I've learned anything about creators and influence, it's like you have to make this a career if you're passionate about it and you just like use your genuine life as an opportunity to create content. And when the best videos of mine perform the best, it's like when I'm naturally in the moment and this is like me without a script, without anything that I've prepared. and it's just like filming and then coming up with a caption that is relatable.

Like that is the best way to start filming yourself, creating content. I think back to my time like filming videos with like a very specific script and writing things out and like having green screen and like those don't do as well. So I think this trip like I really leaned into like me as a business and my life. And that was something that was really new for me. I've actually seen so many pieces of content on Instagram recently talking about exactly this. Situational awareness content actually performs so well, where it's just totally off the cuff. You film your life.

And there's this, like, hilarious video I saw of this woman who she's filming herself, like, she's on an airplane. And you have no idea that, like, the person that she's sitting beside she knows, but she's, like, leans over and she's like, hey, do you think that, like, when we land, you might. want to hang out with me and she's like sitting next to her husband and it's a joke but the video has 23 million views on it because it's just something like the way that you did like walking into the library in France where you're like oh this is kind of a joke but people find it hilarious and then there you go it's like 23 million views well and that's what I think something that I've

shied away from is like making fun of myself and like this whole americans in europe thing that i started doing, like, I'm not American. I'm actually European technically before Brexit. I have a UK passport. So, like, I've spent a lot of time in Europe. But I think I've been so afraid to, like, really lean into that side of things and, like, have people question, like, is this a joke? Is this not? So, like, the video for the Eiffel Tower, like, okay, part of that, I have to say, like, was a little bit of truth. Like, sometimes Corey and I do talk, like, I talk in a baby voice to him because I found somebody that puts me in feminine. which I'm like so happy about.

I was tired. I was hungry. It was 10 o'clock at night. I was about to go to crazy horse for the first time. I was like in my very like kind of just needy mood, I would call it. But it was also sarcasm where I was like looking around at all of the Americans being like, we're all waiting for this thing that like is not happening. So I'm going to lean into this a little bit.

And so it was just interesting. That is to date my most viral video ever on TikTok. like ever. So it's funny because at this one hand, I'm like, is that really what I want to be known for? Not necessarily. But on the other hand, it's like this whole theory of this year

or this whole goal of this year was to go from a devoted niche to an engaged mass. And so when you think about like a content as a business, you're thinking about the same way we used to have KPIs and OKRs and like the corporate setting, how are we getting there? And if I kept doing the same thing,

over and over and over again, it's not actually going to make a huge difference, whereas this is like the first time I'm thinking about content like a business. And what am I having to do to push myself, to take more risks, to feel uncomfortable? And for anybody that's thinking around creating content, like don't chase virality. Do things that are genuine, but maybe you do play into it a little bit more. And you do put on a little bit of a performance because at the end of the day, you are performing. Yeah, you just add that little like production like sizzle value. And so I think one of the things we're going to talk about today, I was like, how much content do you think we're about to see on social from Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez's wedding? Because if it's anything like the

Embani wedding last year, it's going to be wild. So it's so interesting. This is crazy. But because I've been playing into this entire like Americans in Europe trend on TikTok, I got a note, a DM from a reporter that was like, hey, we are reporting on Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos's wedding about the impact of Americans in Europe right now with the protests. Like, can you please go on record? We'd love to have a FaceTime or an interview with you to get any sense of like how it feels to be an American in Europe. So this wedding is about to kick off. I think it starts tomorrow. And I personally didn't feel any sense of like, whoa, this is happening. or Americans are being like looked down upon in Europe.

But I can tell that in specific areas, there are definitely like going to be repercussions for this. But what I think is actually more interesting to talk about is Lauren Sanchez and her pre-nup. I mean, that's the question everyone wants to know is like what is in that pre-num. I think. And also just having the conversation of like there's a pre-empt, which there should be. Of course. And so something that people really enjoyed about last week's episode with Brini was around this conversation of like dating somebody really successful and having your own financial independence. And I think we would all be lying if we said that having a supportive partner doesn't supercharge your financial situation. But I think that there is something that's really unique about knowing your worth when you are a woman that is entering into any relationship. And why?

I want to start talking about pre-ups is because I think people are so afraid of them, but pre-naps are there to like protect and procure for both people. And so why not use Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos as an example to just normalize pre-naps? When you're getting married if you don't sign a pre-nep, there's one in place anyway. The state determines it for you. And so you're entering into a legally binding contract. You might as well negotiate it so it works in your favor instead of like, after the fact, God forbid, it doesn't work out, like 50% of marriages.

Like, the state has decided. So women need to be empowered to be like, hey, I'm going to negotiate this to make sure that I feel protected and safe and secure. And so does my partner. Yeah. And in California, it's actually illegal to not have a lawyer represent both parties in the pre-nep. So you actually have somebody with the expertise in the experience to be able to represent you. So I think it's interesting that, like, obviously we're not going to get the details of Lauren

and Jeff's pre-nep as like people won't get the details of mine. But I think like one creator that I've loved watching as she's gone through her wedding is Madeline White because of how open she's been about the pre-up process. And I think it really does empower women to like reframe their brain around pre-naps. And a little tip that Courtney and I have started talking about as we think about our pre-nep is like, we don't actually call it a pre-nep. We call it a PMA, a premarital agreement. And I think language matters so much.

And if you are starting to feel like you're anxious thinking about a pre-nup, think about it in a different way. Like, think about it as a PMA because it is really there to protect you. And I think a really interesting thing to note about Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos is I've learned in California that if you get paid spells of support for as long as like you've negotiated in your pre-net for, it ends the minute you marry someone else. And it's really interesting because that $500 million yacht that Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos were on to celebrate her son's birthday, it was his 19th birthday. So the timing of everything is crazy. Because if you think about Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez, they've been together for six or seven years. They likely have known that they've wanted to get married for a very long time. And her son just turned 19.

So she was likely being paid spells of support until her child was 18. I don't know if child support stops when you're remarried, but I definitely know that spousal support stops once you're remarried. So the timing of everything is interesting to note. Yeah, I mean, it's obviously been, when you're Jeff Bezos, you have every single resource at your disposal. So I'm sure it's been like queued up down to the tea. But I mean, child support does end when the child is no longer.

When they're 18. When they're 18 or 19, I don't know exactly how it works. but like, yeah, that's obviously not a coincidence. And then like, okay, this is my sort of reality TV as an aside, like Sutton's Track on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, that woman's getting north of, I think it was like $200,000 a month in spousal support. Guess what? She's never remarried.

Because that's what her settlement is. It's all spousal support every month as opposed to here's a cash lump sum at the divorce. That's crazy. But, okay, so I posted this in the newsletter. week, which is around merging finances in relationship because I think the one amazing thing about a PMA or a pre-nup is like it sets out expectations and rules in the dynamic that you will have with your relationship. And I think that it's been, obviously everyone's been asking me like, how do you merge finances? And it's going to be so situational based on like your specific

situation, your partner's financial situation. But I think the PMA and pre-naps give people the ability to like understand each other situations really well. So I read this article that said if you are merging finances in a relationship and one of you is an extremely extravagant spender and one of you is extremely frugal, that is like a pathway to divorce if you don't figure that out before you're married. And what they suggested in this article that I feel like is just a trend in general is that both people have separate bank accounts in a marriage. And then they also, if they can, have a joint account and they're very clear on what goes in and out of the joint account and what is their separate property because I can only imagine being with somebody that spends

money like completely differently than me and it's like if it's equally 50-50 and you're like wait I never would have spent my money on that but they would like of course you're going to run into problems so not to blanket advice but if you are starting to have conversations around merging finances and relationship. I feel like there is a lot more content that's coming out. That's like identifying the spending behavior of you as an individual, your partner as an individual, what you want to spend your money on.

Like, is it travel? Is it a house? Is it a big wedding? Like, is it an engagement ring? Like, if you aren't comfortable having those conversations with your partner, like that's a huge sign that likely it's not going to be a successful relationship moving forward. Yeah, and that there's a very like a significant mismatch in one of the biggest areas of your life that you are going to have to talk about. And it's funny because I actually had this exact conversation with a couple of friends of mine a few weeks ago. And I think as a woman, I mean, I know a lot of women shy away from math. They shy away from numbers. They've been told like, oh, you'll never be good at that. So they're like, I'm going to go into a career in a profession where I don't have to think about numbers or I just don't in general. And for me, because I'm an accountant, that's obviously never been my situation and I like am detailed with finances but we had this

exact conversation and in the group of women it was like half of us was the exact situation that this article was recommending and the same as me and my husband we have our separate bank accounts and then there's a joint bank account so like paycheck goes into separate bank accounts and then we transfer money for like mortgage child care utilities general like household or life expenses that we spend together and that's what goes into the joint account. And then there were another group of women who were like, I don't know anything about the finances in my relationship. Like my paycheck goes into a joint account that my husband manages. We have a joint credit card that he pays off. And it was interesting because a lot of these women were in careers, were like, they've

never had to deal with money. They've never had to deal with numbers. And you could see, like, as part of the conversation where they were like almost didn't want to say that was their situation and they might have felt a little embarrassed. And I think that's the power of having this conversation is empowering women just to be part of the conversation, to be curious, ask like what's going on in the situation. And so you don't find yourself in a situation where like there's, you know, you're cheating through money or spending money in ways that you wouldn't. And I think it's, yeah, just a really important conversation to have. Okay, we touched a little bit on this with wedding. So the Bezos's wedding, it's expected to be like four or five million dollars, I've heard.

And I don't know about you, but I feel like the expectations of an expensive wedding have just like skyrocketed over the last few years, especially with like the business of creator economy and the business of weddings at this like crazy intersection. Because I think from Sophia Richie Grange, who like genuinely made her entire career skyrocket off of her wedding that was an extremely extravagant, amazing, beautiful experience. And seeing where she was able to take her career after, I feel like so many creators use a wedding as a way to do that. And successfully, by the way.

So, like, I love Jazz who just had her wedding. And it was, like, an entire content machine. Remy, who just got married. She absolutely slayed content at her wedding. But I think now the expectation of weddings for creators to see, skyrocket their fame has become like an entertainment experience versus like a wedding. And I think totally as a reminder, nobody at your funeral is going to say, oh my God, remember that a million dollar wedding that they had or oh my God, remember the size of her engagement ring or that

it was like a million dollars. And I feel like it's important to have the conversation that if you can do those things and not put yourself into stress, like, that's amazing. And I think that is something that you should celebrate and I'm a capitalist. So like, I'm all here for you spending your money in the way that you want. But if you are in a situation where that isn't your reality, like you have to remember that you're getting married for your marriage and for your legacy and not for your wedding. You're betting it all on like like Brian you said after their wedding. They put the chips on their wedding date number.

if you're betting it all on your wedding day, that it is going to completely change the course of your career and like you're spending every penny and going into debt. Like, you know, for us now having been in this media business for years and years, like I hate to break it to you, but sometimes the tide changes it completely when you're not going to expect it. And then the dollars aren't there or the opportunities aren't there. And you could be left with nothing. So I think like to your point, you have to make sure you're getting married one for the right reason. you want a partnership.

And two, like, yeah, you can be strategic about it. But like, don't, you know, go out of your way to pick vendors because they're going to give you brand deals. No. And I think, like, that's what I loved about Briney's wedding and being there to experience it because, like, she is a creator. She's the Deior Wellness Ambassador. She has obviously the trajectory that a lot of these other girls do for a wedding of an

extravagant level. And hers was, like, she picked her venue and her dress. all in the same day. It was like the most like like beautifully small wedding that I feel like I've ever been to. She was still in vogue. Like she still had everything that she wanted. She wasn't stressed. And so I don't think that there's like a right way or a wrong way. But I do think it's just important to talk about both sides because like I, I am all here for like celebrating your love. But I think it's just like making sure you keep everything in perspective as you're doing it where it doesn't set an expectation that like you're going to make your entire career off of your wedding, if that makes sense.

No, I totally agree. And that's what I think. And you know what you said? Bryny still got all the things she wanted and was in vogue, et cetera, had a beautiful wedding. It's because she didn't produce it. Yeah. She didn't produce it for the end goal of being in vogue. She got married because she's so deeply in love with her husband and their wedding day was a true reflection of their relationship. Yeah.

That's why she got everything she wanted, not because she made 20 TikTok videos the day of her wedding. Wait, did you read this article about, she wrote about, the 36 questions that led to love and now she's married. Have you ever heard about that? No. Okay. So this is like one of my favorite stories because actually somebody asked me, how do you find a supportive partner while you're dating as an HSR girl? And my advice is like, don't actually lean so heavy on questions. You lean on actions. So for me when I was dating Courtney, I feel like my anxiety confused a lot of things that were never meant to be confused

because I was going off of like hypotheticals instead of like what was Courtney's actions towards me. And every time I'm attest to that last summer. I can attest to that. Yeah. And every time I would go into that anxiety spiral, you would bring me back and be like, you have to trust in like the way that he treats you. And I think learning to trust in the behavior. And I think learning to trust in the behavior and not thinking about asking questions is actually like my most important piece of advice. Like when I think back to how I got into such a healthy relationship, it wasn't around answers to questions. It was around being really judgmental about myself because you don't know the other person that you're dating. So it's hard to judge their behavior, but you know yourself.

So like you can judge whether you feel safe, whether you feel respected, whether you feel curious, whether you feel love. Like, you know yourself so well. So instead of like putting so much on like what are things I should be asking or looking for him for or things like that, it's like really thinking about how you're starting to feel in your relationship. So I think looking at myself, like in the early days of dating other men, I was so focused on like putting myself into a box or something that I thought they wanted. And then you kind of let that go after a period of time, right? And you're just yourself. And I think with Courtney in the early days of dating, I was very much myself. Like I was unafraid of getting hurt, which now looking back, I'm like, I don't even know how

I was doing that. But I think that when you pretend to be something that you're not, or you pretend to be the qualities that you think they're looking for, you aren't being yourself. And then eventually that will fade. But after reading this article about the 36 questions that led to love, like this is one of the most read about articles in the New York Times history, I think, like, ever. And so Courtney and I actually printed these out and did them on this last trip with each other in Greece. And they're amazing. Like, I'll read you some as an example. Would you like to be famous in what way? Oh, that's a good one. What would constitute a perfect day for you? Name three things that you. and your partner appear to have in common, for what in your life do you feel most grateful?

If you could change anything about the way you were raised, what would it be? So like, these are all great questions that I feel have validity. But I still think the biggest recommendation I have if you're listening to this and you're an ambitious, driven female, is really get clear on your vision of your life, what you want, and then only judge yourself as you're going through the process dating somebody. if you're aligned to that vision. Like, is that person putting you into a space where you can go and accomplish that vision?

Or are they taking away from that and you're overcompensating? And I think that is like the true way you're going to find somebody that can not only like match your power but shine a light on your existing light versus trying to dim it down. And I think, oh, I wish I remember who said this.

Was basically the mom saying to the daughter, oh, it was Paige DeSorbo. Her mom said to her like as she was considering like day to it, Mary and Craig, there are a lot of Wednesdays in a relationship. Like, people get married thinking every day is going to be a Friday night or a Saturday, and it's like the best days of our lives. But the reality of marriage is like 95% of days are a Wednesday.

They're mundane. They're boring. It's the day to day of work. It's people trying to reach their goals, better themselves, et cetera. Like, it's not all Fridays. And so I think that's a really great checklist for people to be like, you know, I'm signing up for a lifetime of Wednesdays with my partner. Yeah.

That's what it is. And like, are we aligned on those things? Like, thank God my, my husband and I, like, we, we like to vacation the same way. We like to spend our time the same way, like, in our free time. We love going for meals and trying food and drink and, like, being low key. And so I would imagine, like, if he was wanting to, you know, trek to Machu Picchu on our next vacation, I'd be like, okay, you can do that by yourself. And you can see how that leads down the path of, like,

people not spending time together. Yeah, I a thousand percent agree. Okay, but I think because we want to move on to our next thing, do we want to talk about trademarking or DCC? Let's talk about how to deal with copycats and remain unbothered, which leads into trademarking. This is something that I have struggled with because I felt like when people first started copying me, it was like a piece of my identity was being taken away. There is nothing worse than feeling like you can't prove yourself right or wrong. And in human nature, I feel like we are born to defend ourselves. It's like fight or flight, right? So when I... And you especially are born to defend yourself,

like to the death. Yes. Which I've gotten better at because I've gone through years of therapy to just realize like it's not about me in my character. Like other people's opinions of me is none of my business. It's taken me years to understand that. How do I deal with copycats? There's few things. We are all given this gift and nobody can replicate that. So like my superpower is completely different than somebody else's superpower that's ripping me off. That's the first thing. I think realizing that you're the innovator and those people will always be behind you, being able to be somebody that can take risks and can continue to reinvent the playbook and knowing that what's worked for you in the past isn't necessarily what's going to work for you in the future and to continue to

just know that you are the market leader and you are the innovator. And so I think like that inherently is like the personal development that I've gone through to really deal with that. You can say like, oh yeah, it shows that like it's a compliment. Well, it's not complimenting in my opinion to feel that way, but it does show me that there's a market for this. Like if somebody is going to the effort of copying me. Like there is a market to double down on what I'm doing and do it 10 times better. And I am never the smartest person in the room, but I will always outwork people. And that's why like I will get off a flight, get five hours of sleep and like be in this chair doing this because this is what I know I'm meant to do and be passionate about. So I think there's that.

Obviously with you and I, we knew that this hot, smart, rich phrase could be taken very quickly and run with it from a large organization with much bigger budgets than us. So what we decided to do almost two years ago when I first kind of coined this was like, go and get the trademarks. So why don't you walk people through the process of getting trademarks and like why it's so important to do that? Basically this process has taken over two years. Like we literally just got the certificates in hand like two weeks ago.

And we started this back in 2023. And I think I also learn this from my days working in Missouri. Your trademarks and your IP and your copyright on things is really at the end of the day the only thing that you have when it comes down to the value of your business and being able to protect yourself. And we, to start the process, we took a look at our business and we were like, okay, what are all of the different verticals that we could see this business like going off into on top of all of the other things that we had going on? like in social media, in marketing, in, you know, emails, venture capital, financial services, et cetera. We were like, okay, there's a high likelihood we're going to do a podcast one day. There's a high likelihood that we're going to do merge and we'll do, you know, a t-shirt,

a hoodie, paper goods, like all of those different types of things. And so we took a very like broad scope look at what are all of the businesses we think could come out of Hot Smart Rich. And we started the process with our trademark attorney, which you are going to need to spend on a trademark attorney. to actually look at like, okay, all of these different categories, let's start a search. And there were some categories, like truthfully, we ran into problems in where it's so weird the way it works. Like, it was not even close to what Hot Smart Rich is, but it still was like, oh, you know,

there's a mark pending that's like maybe something rich, whatever girl. And for that reason, you might not be able to get it, which luckily the person abandoned their trademark in one of those categories. So it was fine. But you basically have to do this search across all these categories. then you have to file an initial application saying like, okay, this is what we would want to use it for. Then the government will come back and say yes or no based on what you submit. And then the final step is you actually have to show proof of it being used in concept and like being commercialized in the marketplace.

So one of the things that is obviously intimidating about that conversation is thinking about like the length of time that takes. But really it's like everything in life is in the court of public opinion. And like whoever uses it first in a. a commercial way is actually like someone that can fight a trademark, right? So like we made sure to be like, okay, even though we weren't selling hot smart rich hats, we were like, we need merch that's hot smart rich. So we did like a print on demand hat that was hot smart rich. So that like that was in the court of public opinion where like if someone were to challenge our trademark one day when we

didn't actually have our papers, we're like, but we used it first. And I think that's really important. The other one that was important that we did, even though we didn't have a podcast. that was downloadable until January. You started doing five podcasts for Hot Smart Rich Girls, like close to two years ago as well because we knew that was a category that we wanted to build in. And so I think it's just like a really good reminder

that obviously there's things that you can do that are personal development, but then there's also like legal things that you can do. And so there's this story of this female founder kissing cowgirls who is an LGBTQ founder that has had their designs and name ripped off by Brandy Melmills. how is Brandy Melville still in business? And it's a really good reminder that like trademarks do matter.

Look at Road, the clothing brand. I'm not saying that it closed down because of Road taking over, but the name became synonymous with Haley Bieber's skincare brand versus the clothing brand. So I do think it is a good reminder that as much as like you don't want to pay for certain things in your business when you're starting out that don't seem relevant. Like for us back in the day spending, how much was it like the first initial application? It was like thousands of dollars. I want to say like for all of them it was maybe $2,500. So that was the first initial amount of cash that we put out.

But then there was multiple payments across the two years. Now we've probably spent $10,000 between like all the filings and legal fees to actually get these trademarks in hand, which is not nothing when you're starting a business. And then if you think about the thing that's hard is like reinforcing that, if Brandy Melville ripped off Hot Smart Rich, you have to then spend money fighting that in court. So I think you have a better shot of doing that if you already own the trademarks and you know that your payout is going to be much bigger because you have such a big case behind you. So I think it's just a good reminder that like no matter what you're building, if you have a big vision for your brand and you're

building it in a space that is especially saturated doesn't have a ton of like proprietary information. Like Hot Smart Rich, yes, is like the brainchild of you and I, but it also someone else could do something very similar, which they have. And like we own that distinction of Hot Smart Rich. So us going up in court against a Brandy Melville has a much better shot than like a kissing cowgirls who never owned their trademark, if that makes sense. No, totally. But it's still a blatant rip off.

And I think like even when we think about Project Petal, which like if you're a newsletter or girly, if you know, you know thus far. In that business that we've been incubating, from that learning, from the very first day, like we probably had 10 different names for that business. And we did all the trademark searches and we were like, can't name it that, can't name it that, can't name it that, not because there was an exact business that we're building doing the same thing,

but because there's something similar in a category that could confuse the consumer. And so for a takeaway for like all of the founders who are listening, or anyone who's like a future entrepreneur wanting to build a business and you think it has the ability to be a billion dollar idea or like the way you're making your money, just do a trademark search. Do you know what's so funny looking back? If only Sophia had trademarked unwell when she was at Call Her Daddy, like none of this discourse online would exist. And I see videos all the time of people being like, Unwell was built by Sophia or started.

and I'm like, well, she should have trademarked it then, you know? Like, I think that if you, if you put all of these examples into practice, like it's such an unsexy thing to talk about, but it's like something we get requested about a lot. Other big piece of advice that I heard from a really legendary investor was like overuse things to get public opinion ownership. So like, as an example, cash poor, equity rich. Like, we don't own the trademark on that yet,

but like I have said that so many times. we have merch with that, that like as we go through the trademarking of that, it would be very hard for somebody to argue that like they started it before me because it's like, well, it public opinion is that we actually started using it. So somebody said to me, if you're coming up with things like, you know, as an example, like tag lines. Tag lines. Like I don't know if Tinks came up with this. So the chances that Courtney knows comparison is the thief of joy from Tinks is like, very far-fetched. Yet, in public court opinion, I would say that, like, she came up with that saying. So it is really interesting to think about, like, overusing taglines and consistently

saying things, because then you're kind of objectively or subjectively being known as, like, the creator of that. So we're definitely implementing that in our business, which is just, like, when we come up with something, like, we use it over and over and over again until it's almost, like, underneath the HSR umbrella. Yeah, and ad nauseum. So people are like, we get it. Yeah, exactly. But I think, like, on the whole concept of, like, copycats and people copying ideas, like,

we've seen this time and time again. Like, Uber and Lyft are a great example. There's always a first mover and there's always a second to market. There's always an Airbnb. There's always going to be a verbo. That's the way the world works is because someone has a great idea. And, yeah, like, if you can keep the position as being the first mover and staying ahead and being operationally proficient, like you go for gold.

You get the number one spot. But the reality is, and this is a really hard pill for people to swallow, whether you're a creator, you're a business owner, you're a clothing designer, a tech founder. Like if you don't have the operational efficiency to stay ahead, at the end of the day, it's business. And if you haven't protected yourself, your idea, your business, and someone else goes to copy it and gets it to market faster than you,

then like, unfortunately, they're going to, to win. Well, did you see today that CNBC reported that Google has now been using YouTube videos to train its AI models? I saw that. And the other thing, I know this is like kind of different, but even Capcut as an example, just updated their terms and conditions being like any content that you edit or even upload to our software, we now have full usage and ownership rights of that content. So everyone is doing this. Well, and I think this is why AI is so confusing. and like we use it a lot in our business. And something that I fundamentally disagree with

that is going around on TikTok is certain creators saying that like, oh, now everybody is just using AI and it's like it means you're slow. And I get where they're coming from because obviously critical thinking is more important than ever is to like be able to go in research.

Like as an example, when I started seeing that like Airbnb was offering free housing for people that were affected by the LA Wildfires on social media, the first thing I did before reposting that was like go to the official Airbnb website to fact check and be like, I need to think critically versus just seeing something and reposting it. But I think that one thing I really disagree with and I would really caution people against is thinking that like AI is not going to completely revolutionize the entire fabric of the

U.S. economy. Like every single leader of the biggest, companies, whether it's Shopify and Google and Amazon, are all saying that, like, they are fundamentally shaping and changing their workforce with AI. Creators need to figure out how to use AI. And yes, it starts with chat GPT. Like, when you get an understanding of how to prompt it for questions and how to, like, carry on a conversation and how to, like, dig holes, you actually are thinking very critically. You're not just saying, hey, spit this out. So, some, Something that I do find really concerning with creators on TikTok is them saying like, oh, AI is a scapegoat or you don't need to use it. No, you absolutely need to learn how to use AI. I do think there is a lot of confusion in the market with like you obviously saw this whole like AGI thing where the smartest minds in AI are talking around like how long it will be before AGI is like really in the world and it's anywhere from like two to five years.

whereas like Starbucks is now doubling down on human capital and saying like we're actually moving away from tech and we're going back into like really prioritizing humans. So I think where I stand is like never get fall, never fall behind. Like if you look at Peresilton, she was one of the first people that was like embracing the metaverse and she was embracing blockchain. And not all of those hit right away, but like she is well versed with her team that like when those do become a priority, she knows exactly what to do. She's not learning it for the first time. So I would caution anybody that is listening to creators on TikTok that are talking around how irrelevant AI is. No, like you need to start familiarizing yourself with it because it's only going

to infiltrate every aspect of our life moving forward. And like if you're a creator, solopreneur, whatever, it will only make your business more profitable and actually easier to manage because I can say as someone who's managed like 20 people on a team before managing people and managing processes and things is so much work it's money it's time it's like interpersonal relationships and it's like completely exhausting and so if you're not using it it's actually also like a miss business opportunity for you to be more efficient in your business and the content that you're putting out and so i also had seen that meta announce that they're going to be able to automate like all meta advertising online by 2026 as a goal.

And I think, you know, like this revolution, the AI revolution is coming. We're in the midst of it. And I think, you know, to your point, never fall behind. And I can say as a fact, like things like AI with meta and them saying, we're going to be able to create all of your ads, I don't doubt they might be able to create like really high performing product imagery that's your evergreen, always on marketing. But when I think back to the days at Missouri where like we were like, we were in the war

room on Black Friday looking at like what creative is hitting what are the social trends that are online what's this random tagline that someone said that's sticking like those in the moment nuanced things like AI is never going to replace that no but that's where you need to be thinking and leveling up to be like how can I always be operating on that level to be super niche and engaged so that like AI yeah it can take over the day to day stuff that you don't want to be doing and why wouldn't you want to give that up yeah I a thousand percent I agree we can't end this episode without talking about the Dallas Catboy cheerleaders because I don't watch TV, let alone reality TV, but I was in a frantic state before my flight took off being like,

I have no Wi-Fi for 13 hours. I need to stay up so that I can go to sleep when I get home. What am I going to download? So I go to Netflix and I download like four episodes from this show. I am in love. And the fact that these girls, just for the first time, got, is it a 400% or a 300% to $75 an hour? instead of 15. What the fuck? Can we just talk about the power of reality TV? This is the thing that's going to revolutionize equal pay for women doing free fucking work. Well, and it was so interesting because I really want Charlotte Jones on the podcast because

in the first season, which I just watched, like she talks about in the first or second episode why the cheerleaders have not gotten a pay bump. And so this was season one. And it was like basically because it's like a, it's like a, it's like a, something that should be celebrated, that you should be so proud to be able to do for the state of Texas for the most legendary iconic franchise in the history. And while I see that, I also see that these girls are working nine to five jobs. Three jobs. Some of them are working three jobs. So I think it's really interesting to think about how you can bring building in public like

you're on reality TV to your brand as a founder. And that's how I think about how can you take what's working from a separate industry and really bring it to you as a business owner. And so for me, the thing that I'm actually starting to think about is if my life was a reality TV show, like what would this season be about? And like how would I put that into practice? Because if you look at people's careers that have been catapulted by reality TV or like real pay increases like the DCC from the show, real change happens from these moments and these TV shows. So I think just to wrap up, if you're thinking about how can you really like catapult yourself, your business, it's like start thinking of yourself as a reality TV character. And like what is the

show that you're creating your life to be? Putting it out there in a way where you're not trying to put people on blast, but like you're just trying to get the truth and the reality out there of what's happening. Yeah. Hey, you're copying my business. Hey, you've ripped off my trademark. Like sometimes you do need to push the envelope and I think that's exactly what DCC is doing. But the way I'm going to end my segment of the podcast is like I, I didn't learn Thunderstruck the first time around. I am learning it this time, especially the like when they get down on the ground and then they like whip their head up. The split squats you're learning. The splits, the splits you're learning that. The jump splits. Yeah, exactly with with the arm up at the end. No, I'm obsessed. Like I love them so much. Okay,

well, I'm so happy that we're back. I can't wait to record three more episodes in the next few days. I love you so much. Everybody, thank you for listening. If you can, please rate, review, subscribe. Let us know what you want to hear, who you want to have on, and we can't wait to see you on the next one.