Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Mary Holland Nader: From Wall Street Analyst to Reality TV Fame — Why She Left Corporate America, Found Her Voice & Built Her Own Fintech Startup

Episode Date: October 29, 2025

In her first solo podcast interview, Mary Holland Nader, known as the “finance sister” from Hulu’s The Nader Sisters, opens up about life beyond her sister Brooks, leaving Wall Street for reality TV, and building her own fintech startup, Mary & Pip. This is the candid conversation every woman navigating money, fame, and career pivots needs to hear. In this powerful, candid conversation, she reveals: What it really cost her to leave Deutsche Bank for reality TV How fame has become a new form of currency for women in business The pros and cons of having Brooks as an older sister and role model Pretty privilege, corporate politics, and why she hid her Instagram from colleagues What the show did for her career — and what it risked The reality of inconsistent income, brand deals, and healthcare after leaving corporate life Why she wants to use her platform to build tools for the freelance generation The future of her startup Mary & Pip, and how she measures the ROI of fame This episode isn’t just about reality TV or Wall Street. It’s about carving your own lane, defining success on your terms, and using your platform for impact. Chapters 00:00 Intro 00:40 Who Is Mary Holland Nader? 02:00 Growing Up a Nader Sister & Finding Her Own Identity 04:15 The Pressure of Comparison & Competition in the Family 06:10 Leaving Wall Street for Reality TV 08:00 Getting Permission to Film While Working at Deutsche Bank 09:30 Living a Double Life: Banker by Day, Influencer by Night 11:10 How Reality TV Changed Her Confidence 13:00 The $3,000 Job That Made Her Quit Corporate 14:50 How Money Mindset and Scarcity Shaped Her Ambition 17:10 What Finance Taught Her About Power & Perception 19:40 Why Women Still Hide Parts of Themselves at Work 22:30 Reclaiming Creativity After Corporate Burnout 25:00 Building Mary & Pip: Rebranding Wall Street for Women 28:40 The ROI of Fame and Public Perception 31:20 Sisterhood, Brand Building & Owning Their Narrative 35:40 Balancing Love, Career & “Having It All” 39:30 The Psychology of Money and Letting Go of Scarcity 44:50 Rapid Fire: Credit Cards, Red Flags & NAD Drips 50:30 What’s Next for Mary & Pip Hot Smart Rich: Join 250,000+ angels and subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter: https://hotsmartrich.com/subscribe Become an HSR Angel in the ⁠Global HSR WhatsApp channel:  https://shorturl.at/xzLPm Buy the Hot Smart Rich Money Mindset here: https://shorturl.at/pJWLc Buy Hot Smart Rich merch: https://hotsmartrich.shop/ YouTube: https://shorturl.at/IXXFZ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hotsmartrich/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hotsmartrich Maggie Sellers Reum: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maggiesellers/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maggiesellers_ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sellersmaggie/ Locker: https://www.wantlocker.com/users/maggiesellers ShopMy: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Mary Holland, Nader. Hello. Are you ready to get a hot, smart rich? Let's do it. Born ready. I am so excited that you're here.

This is your first solo podcast. It's a big deal. How does it feel? Honestly, I don't even think my sisters know I'm doing this right now because that's so me. I don't tell them anything. So, hey, y'all, I'm on my own podcast. They're going to freak out. Do you have to get a lot of permission for things?

So typically that's what's kind of expected, honestly, because we just tell each other everything. But I beat to my own drum, which causes some issues sometimes. They're like, where have you been? Are you going to move to L.A.? Are you going to do this? Because everyone just tells each other everything. And I was in corporate America for so long. I just like always beat to my own drum.

So usually the other girls get permission, but not me. And do you think that you're going to your hand slapped? Honestly, no, because it doesn't affect, like nothing. They can't slap my hand if it doesn't affect me. Do you know what I mean? Okay. They can't get me in trouble if I'm not, if I don't care. Well, that was one of the most interesting things about the show is that like you guys will

really go after each other. What are the actual repercussions of things or is it just like sweep it under the rug? You know what? We fight. I mean, you have a sister. Yeah. Like you get it. We fight 10 times a day and we will call each other a bitch and all the ugliest things.

But if someone else crosses us, then it's game over. So like by the end of the day, it's all swept under the rug. honestly. Like we have said some pretty mean things to each other. I'm the sensitive, nice one. Like I don't get offended. You can kind of see in the show. I just like let them talk. But I also don't bark at them as much as they bark at me. But to answer your question, it sweeps under the rug. Like at the end of they were sisters and sisters fight like cats and dogs. But if anyone crosses your sister, it's game over. Game over. Yeah. Okay. But do you feel like you have to do everything with your sisters now, like business endeavors and like things you're passionate about?

we're definitely closer or I feel closer to them than I was, mostly because I was in corporate America. So I just didn't see them all day. And honestly, like, we take advantage of the sister unit and the sister brand, but then we're all individually pursuing our own thing. I'm starting my own business because I already had a plan for that beforehand. And the sisters are so supportive of that. And if they individually started their own brands, we'd all be so supportive. But right now, I feel like for them especially and because we just had our moment with the show, which is so crazy, we're taking advantage of being together and doing things together. So a lot of our jobs naturally are together and we're starting to find our individual footing. Do you think that will change if your

entrepreneurial pursuit becomes the most successful? I don't think there's a ton of competitiveness between us because, of course, they're all investing in my business. So if my business wins, they win. wins, the Nader sisters win. Like any business and any entrepreneur, you're tied to your brand. And if you have a family, then you're kind of tied to your family. Like before this business, I was tied to Brooks Nader. Do you know what I mean? Like I was her little sister and the show has given me my own voice. This podcast? My own voice? Hello? But I feel like if I succeed, she succeeds. And likewise, not that we're being selfish about it, of course, but we're all cheering each other on no matter what. And a little healthy competition is always, you know, good between family.

Who would you say you are the most competitive with or have been traditionally? Again, I am not competitive with them. It's just, I'm a competitive person, but not with them because I do such different things. Okay. I feel like she's going to kill me. Grace Ann is probably the most competitive with me. Just because like we went to college together. We're the closest in age. Well, she was really smart growing up. She was like Valvictorian and she was on the captain of the cheer team, right? She was a high achiever. She was very much a high achiever.

Yeah, valedictorian, went to Georgia. We were at school together. We, like, dated in the same boyfriend group. You know, we kind of, like, ran in the same circles at Georgia. So naturally, she was a little bit competitive with me since we've grown into our own, which I'm so grateful for the show because before, and we'll talk about, I felt like I had to kind of, like, mold to the sister brand. Yeah.

And now that the show has shown my differences and, like, I've gotten to be myself on the show and everyone's like, oh, you're the finance girl, and that's okay. And people even enjoy the money talk that I've been, like, posting more about it and, like, being more myself. And I'm realizing it's okay to be different from them. So I feel like there's less competition now. But if I had to choose with anyone, it would probably be Gracian. Because, you know, Brooks and Sarah Jane are, like, two peas in a pod.

And they're, like, the oldest and the youngest, which is so interesting. So odd. Yeah. And we didn't get that close with, we got our sister back when she got divorced. We really did. So you were not close with her when she was married. We were, absolutely. at least probably closer than most sisters, but she was still married. He had a hold on her

more than we did almost. Can I be honest, I didn't even know that Brooks was married. Not many people did. I think she was married. She was a baby. Yeah. Like she had no idea when she got married. And that's what we were all trained to do almost, which is why I was kind of anti-marriage for a while. Are you anti-marriage still? Not because of who I'm dating. Just because he is not anti-marriage. If he didn't want to get married, I wouldn't ever ask. I would never expect. Will you? you ever change your last name from Nader? Probably not. Oh my God, that is so crazy.

I know. Well, I would have to if I wanted. If you're going to be a lady. If I'm going to be a lady, I would have to change my name. Okay. You are known as the nice, smart kind one on the show. Is that a lot of pressure? Flattered.

But honestly, no, because I'm not faking it. Like, I'm not pretending to be someone I'm not on the show. I will say, though, within the first 30 minutes of meeting you, you are way more high energy than they put on the show. Yes. Well, let me tell you, Maggie, on the show, I was scared shitless. I was literally terrified to even speak at some points because, again, I was in such a corporate world, like, trying to be this perfect mold of a human in corporate America.

And then they were like, right, you can't film a reality show here. Like, you got to leave. Oh, so they were like, you have to leave. Well, it was like, I either do the show or I keep my job. It was kind of like one or the other. And of course, the show would have loved to film my Wall Street days, but they were like, you can't. but you can film your exit, which is huge.

By the way, it was like you walking out. It was like not even walking. No, literally, not even walking. Like, no one else could be in it. But the fact that they let me use the name Deutsche Bank was amazing. Like, they were so supportive. So you would get approval for all of that. Oh, yeah.

The head honcho of the bank had to sign up over in Germany and be like, this is okay. But they were so supportive of me when I was there, which is amazing. But anyways, point being, I made that huge life transgestion at like 25 years old. Yeah. Kind of out of the blue, we were kind of like, all right, we're doing the show that we filmed a pilot for like a year and a half ago. So the pilot was a year and a half before the show came out? No, not this pilot. We filmed a different thing.

So like two years ago, we were approached and we were like, you guys need a show. We filmed it, the pilot. We were all in different stages. Sir Jane couldn't even drink. I was 24 analyst program at a huge international bank, obviously getting the shit beat out of me, like working all the time. Brooks was married. We were all in completely different spots. And so we filmed it.

We kind of waited, we're waiting for the call. And basically two years later, after Brooks was on Dancing with the Stars, like, she was kind of the moment over the summer, Hulu was like, right, let's do it. Let's get things rolling. I mean, it was all reality, like truly reality. But again, it was kind of like, all right, quit your job. What are you doing now? Was that a mandate?

Like, you have to quit your job to be on the show? Deutsche Bank was like, you can't film a reality show here. So I was like, okay, I guess I have to quit this. whole life I planned out for myself. My whole life had been work to get to Wall Street. I'm this southern pretty girl on Wall Street. I need to prove myself even harder. Didn't know I could be hot, smart, and rich at that time. But now we know. But on the street, I was just kind of like studying extra hard for every meeting, over preparing imposter syndrome to the max, worked for five years to get a great reputation amongst my colleagues of being smart. And then I was going to quit to go do

this reality show. I was like, oh my gosh, am I going to throw all of that? I was like, oh my gosh, am I going to throw all of this away that I worked for. So it was like kind of an identity crisis almost. But I was also alone in it because I talked to my dad a lot about it. But like my sisters never had that. And they were like, why wouldn't you do a reality show? And of course, looking back, thank God I did. It's proven financially much more beneficial for me. But I was kind of alone in that transition because I was like so lost and confused. By the way, on the pay thing, like I didn't even know how to advocate for myself. Because from Louisiana, I was like told that I was lucky to be on Wall Street.

Even my dad, bless him, love him, has been so supportive. But he was like, don't quit your Wall Street. You got there. Like, how did you even get there? My dream was to work on Wall Street, you know? You feel so lucky to be there. I feel so lucky. And like, they're going to find me out if I speak up about getting paid more or if I speak

up about anything that's happening there. Like, they're going to find out that I'm not supposed to be here because I was the only non-Ivey analyst. I was like the only model times banker. I was so secret about where I was going, so secret about my Instagram and everything. So you were living like two separate lives? Total Hannah Montana. And did you ever feel like they were just in total conflict with each other?

When you're early 20s coming from my rife age of 27. Girl, I'm 33. Like, relax. No, and I'm getting wiser with my age. So I'm very grateful to be 27. But when I was in the right age of 22, fresh out of college, I had more energy than I even knew what to do with. So did they conflict with each other? Yes, when I was like rolling into the office super exhausted from like being out at an event until 2 a.m. But I discovered then that I couldn't

drink and perform in both. Yeah. So from then, I still don't drink that often compared to my sisters because I have to be so high performing in the business world. And I still feel like I have to prove myself in this new tech world that I'm entering, which I love your advice. I'm like, what am I doing here? I learned very quickly that I had to be smart about going out to these events and influencer stuff. And if it was making me money, then I would go, not that I was getting paid to go to anything. But I'm so glad that I didn't sleep during those first few years because it built the reputation in both industries that I'm using now to propel this business. Okay.

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Do you feel like you attract different types of fans from the show than your sisters? Who's coming up to you and being like, I love you from the show. show. Like, is that a very different archetype of person that's going up to Grace Ann or Sarah? Yeah. I mean, of course Sarah Jane has captured the LGBTQ community. She's so brave. So brave. I'm so freaking proud of her. So she has a lot, an overwhelming amount of support. And just like people being like, you helped me realize and come out, which is so special. Totally different. But similarly, I'm having girls being like, I never thought I could quit my corporate job or like, inter- well, the micro-retirement thing is kind of like a funny. I hope that no one's like quitting just because of that.

But people are DMing me just being like inspiring in terms of the corporate side of things. So I feel like I am, I guess you could say a bit more relatable compared to my sisters who were top models in New York City from the get. And I'm kind of in that transition. But I'm so grateful that I had a fire lit under my ass because I don't know if I ever would have quit. And being on the other side, I remember it very vividly the moment I really. I realized I needed to quit eventually. It was on my goals list before I knew the show was being picked up up because I was offered a modeling job. I think it was like 3K for the day, which is amazing money. I was like, oh my God, that can pay a month rent in New York. But I had a big meeting with like my

manager the next day. And I was like, oh, he's like getting on. He's, he's being let on that I'm, you know, splitting my time too much. Like, I can't do it. I did the math. And I was making under $300 a day. I was making like $140,000 a year or something, like an analyst salary, thought it was like amazing. All the lies you tell yourself to stay at a corporate job, steady paycheck, health care. I was like, oh, it's coming in every two weeks. I was making like $215 a day or something. And I had to turn down this modeling job that was like $3,000. And I was like, right, I have to quit. But even after that, I didn't quit until I was forced to because of the steadiness of it. I thought, like, I'm so lucky to be here.

Like, there's no way I'll ever have this good of a gig. Did you really want to be working on Wall Street? Or was it more like you were good at school and your parents really wanted that for you? I mean, who really wants to, I think that I did. Like, my dream growing up was like sales and trading floor. Yeah. Like, I looked at that and I was like, oh my God. Like, I look back at my inbox of like cold DMs to people and I'm like, I wanted that

job so badly. Yeah. No, honestly, I think in the moment I was so grateful that I was there and I had worked my entire college career to get there. And we didn't come from any money. So I think that I told myself I was really excited to be there and happy, but that wasn't my dream job at the end of the day. I heard a staff that like a high school or graduating from high school knows only of seven jobs that are possible, two of which their parents hold. And then when you graduate college, the average college student only knows of 11 jobs. And I'm like, and there's 122 industries that one can work in.

So obviously financier is one of those jobs. And I was like, I'll study finance because it means I'll make money. And that's what a lot of people do. Did money motivate you when you were young? Yes, because we had none. And that's what a lot of what I'm trying to build with Mary and Pip is this behavioral mindset and going back to the roots of your kind of like financial DNA. Because we had such a scarcity mindset.

We grew up with literally nothing. And my dad worked for a nonprofit for the first half of my life. and then realized he needed to make more money. So he took his Series 7 and CFP and became a financial advisor. So I saw that that got us out of poverty and into lower middle class. And then he worked his way up and has built his book since. So literally that's why I studied finance because I was like, that is guaranteed to give me stability. With Brooks, she very much has main character energy.

Even looking at like your home videos as a child, she has main character energy. Totally. What have been the pros and the cost? of having a sister like Brooks. Pros and the cons. Oh, gosh. This could get me in trouble. Pros, she always speaks out for me, and I was always a little bit shyer than her.

So she encouraged me to be confident and just will speak on behalf of me and speak for me, even with this business. She'll be like, before I had anything for it, it was an idea. She would tell people, oh, there's a lot of great people about, like, you better and best. even before I was looking for investors. Like she is just speaking out on my behalf all the time. And her confidence is magnetic. Yeah.

Like if you've met her, then you know that she is just like lights up a room entirely and encourages us to be confident in that way. Cons? Maybe that she sometimes expects me to just carry that energy, even though I'm a different person entirely. And she understands that we're different. But sometimes she carries the team so much. much and I feel like I need to kind of keep up. But there's really no cons. Like that having that

confident of a sister and having her be the trailblazer that she is have paved the way for all of us to create our own lanes and dreams. Yeah, exactly. When she first started making money, did that motivate you to go off and do your own thing too? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, I remember it took a minute for her to start making money. But I remember her shameless like, She waited in line at Sports Illustrated for hours and hours with like thousands of people and she made it. So she made us believe in ourselves in a way that I don't think we would have if we didn't have an older sister like that. When did you realize that looks would both help and hurt your career in finance? Wonderful question.

Honestly, I think upon arrival, like I didn't think it would help or hurt when I was in high school at college at the business school. when I arrived and I started to notice pretty privilege, not only in the office, but in the city of New York. Like, you can just get things done for you. And I realized very quickly this can be an asset or I can use it to hurt myself. Or liability. Or liability. Yeah. I feel like it's all about the narrative you tell yourself with pretty privilege.

Like I can see this in myself when I first arrived at DB. Sounds so dumb to say now and might get shit for it. but I was like, oh, I'm like a pretty young girl coming into Wall Street and like I'm being treated differently. And it's like, come on, you're American, didn't have to deal with any visa things. I'm white. I'm from a privileged background no matter how little money we had. Like I realized very quickly, especially being in New York, which I'm grateful of the bubble I grew up in.

And yes, pretty privileged made me sometimes feel imposter syndrome because I wasn't a man or wasn't from an Ivy League school or modeled. but at the end of the day, like, I'm so lucky to be pretty and have the background that I do and be as privileged as I am, I'm going to use it to my advantage, as anyone should, use any of their assets to their advantage. So I think that the narrative I told myself at the beginning of being like, I have to work extra hard to be taken seriously is like kind of BS because I should be so grateful. And it got me in rooms and in conversations that I otherwise wouldn't. And I think I'm still in this entrepreneur journey trying to take advantage of.

it more than I am. And I think the most dangerous part of pretty privileged or how we're viewing it is me sitting back and being more coy, I guess, than I should be or more dumb acting. I feel like I act ditsy when I shouldn't in some situations. Okay. You're meeting with business people now because of the show. Yes. What's your persona that you're taking on in that meeting? So it totally depends on who I'm talking to. If I'm talking to an investor, then I'm buttoned up. But, still flirty. I'm a flirty person. And all of the Nader sisters are flirty people. Yeah. Well, I see videos on TikTok all the time of girls wanting to create content and they work in private equity or banking and they are literally told they will be fired if they post a video again.

100%. Which is why I think both of what we're doing is so important to show women. It's like you don't have to choose. You can be both. What is something you learned about power working in finance? The power you have in an office is so different than the power you have outside of an office. and you should treat it differently. You should never confuse the two. Yes, I was like a multi-hyphenant. I had different types of power in different areas. But like when I got to work, I like submitted to whoever my manager was and got the work done.

I never thought I was too cool, no matter how many followers I had. Not that I was like blowing up while I was at TV. But I think it's easy to get confused in either arena. Like, oh, I work at a bank outside of work or being in work and making money outside of the bank. and I think because I was very careful about separating those two, that's why Deutsche Bank was so supportive because when I was at work, like I was there to work and get my shit done and I didn't get on my phone. I posted videos but not about work. Got it. Do you think it's possible for women to climb the corporate ladder while being 100% authentically themselves? No. Hopefully that changes.

Like I really hope that changes. And it depends on what corporate ladder. you're talking about. If you're working for the hot, smart, rich empire, like, I want you to bring your 100% to work. Yeah. If you're working for a woman-led team or a woman-led company, like Bumble, for example, I'm sure you can be 100% authentically yourself. Yeah. My company, you will show up in wear whatever you want and have your series 7 and 66 and be doing finance stuff. But in corporate America, I don't, I think you have to, I also think that's fine. Like, yeah, I think that it's so important it to be yourself, but also with my generation, especially. Did you just call us different generations? With our, with our generation, like, are we the same generation? I think we are. Gen Z?

No, babe, I'm a millennial. I'm like, I'm like just made the cut. Like, I'm a 90s baby. Are you? Okay, I'm 92, but like, we're 90s. Baby. Yeah, okay. So we can be the same decade. Our generation. With our gen. And let's just, we'll just say Gen Alpha. Oh, I feel like this self-authenticity is like awesome that it's being so prized, but it's also important to work. Yeah. Honestly. And like you can't just like do whatever you want and succeed always.

Yeah. And it's wonderful if you can, if you can create an empire by yourself. But when I was at DB, sometimes I had to do things I didn't want to do. I had to work when I didn't want to work. I had to say yes to do things that I didn't want to do. And like that's okay. And that taught me how to work for someone and taught me discipline in a way that I think. a lot of people are like, I'm just going to work for myself forever and ever and ever.

And that's amazing. But sometimes you learn valuable skills in doing what you don't want to do that you otherwise wouldn't. So I think that like it's okay if you can't 100% be yourself at work. For sure. At least for a little while. I agree. I think there's seasons of your life.

And like in my 20s, I wanted to work really hard. Yes. And like grind it out and meet people and have connections. And now I have an unfair advantage where I have like such amazing people on the show. And people are like, how do you do that? I'm like, I grinded it out for like 11 years, not like all in corporate America, but like corporate startup, VC. There's a lot of skills that I think you learn. But I do feel like there's pressure for young women to like build a personal brand right out of school and like have everything figured out.

And I also think there's something so nice about like doing a nine to five, clocking in, clocking out and then going in living your life and finding out your hobbies outside of work. Yes. Subscriptions aren't just about repeat orders. They're about building real lasting relationships. And that's where Recharge comes in. They are the subscription platform powering the brands you know and love. Chamberlain Coffee, Blueland, Bird and B, and over 100 million subscribers worldwide.

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Like the SUV that handles everything from drop off to off road and the car that hulls groceries and hockey teams or the van that's gone from just practical to practically family. Whatever you want, wherever you're going. Start your search at ototrater.ca. Canada's car marketplace. What version of yourself do you feel like you stepped into as soon as you were out of the floor of DB on a day to day basis? A hundred percent my creative self. Like I and to your point when I was

at DB was clocking in but when I clocked out I would go on Instagram and be like everyone has a company. Everyone has a following. Everyone has this. I need to like start working on something and after hours and I would be so exhausted after work trying to come up with like a business plan with chat. like literally every single day. You're like obsessed with chat. Obsessed with chat. Like obsessed with all of them. You have a nickname for chat.

No, literally. Obsessed with chat. My girl. But like I would literally be putting in work after hours that was pointless work. Scrolling. Comparing myself. Calling it like research, you know,

doing all the things because I was comparing myself. And I will say even during the time when I could just clock in, clock out and forget about work entirely, I like had that nagging feeling in the. back of my head of I'm not doing enough. You still have that? No, because now I have so much creative energy. Like I can wake up. I struggle with time management, not being in corporate America. Yeah. And I'm sure you felt that. Do you get anxious when you're not behind your computer from nine to five? It's, it was a transition. I'm not as anxious anymore. But especially in like

startup mode, I do feel like the culture is very much never stop working and stay up all night. And if you're not, you're not going to succeed. Yeah. I literally just wrote a substack about hustle culture and how it's very dangerous to your productivity, honestly. Like if you work all the time, you cannot be productive. So I struggled. It's a constant battle with like my mindfulness, my presence and like trying to stay on top of that

because it's very easy. And especially because like my sisters are going to Paris and they're like, this is a really important thing for the Brits sister ran. Like we need to go to fashion week and do all this stuff. And I'm like, is that more important? or is like LA Tech Week more important? I don't know because my startup has different priorities, obviously, than the sister modeling brands. But to your point, I can be so much more creative. And I like didn't give myself enough grace when I was at corporate America of how even if you're

sitting at your desk passing time, just staring blankly at your email, you're still exerting so much energy throughout the day. And like I would finish work and be beating myself up for not being creative or not having ideas or not feeling like socializing and now I have so much energy. That's amazing. It means that you're doing the right thing. Yes. Yes. Do you ever feel like the show will have a negative impact of what people will perceive you as because the sister brand is very like modeling, drinking, partying, living life, like slapping each other. Like how do you think that that perception of you will impact you as like the finance tech entrepreneur, Mary? I thought about that a lot.

Like when I was first starting, Mary and Pip, and it's a personal finance app is what it is. And when I was first starting it, I didn't want any association with myself as Mary Holland. Like, I didn't want Mary to be in the name. I wanted it to be able to run autonomously to me because it's like the whole Martha Stewart scare. It's like, well, and especially female founders, like we saw in the recent swipe to the Bumble movie. Like, it is hard to maintain your reputation as a woman. people are out for you. Like no one wants to see a woman succeed.

And it sucks. Wait, I wrote down something so crazy about that. We praise women for being relatable until they start winning. Oh my God. Chills. No, it's so true. Everyone.

Even just like the way that you and I encourage each other and like from afar have been like, okay, like you do personal finance. I don't know anything about personal finance. I'm like such a risk taker startup finance expert. Right, right. But it's like I think even just having you on the show and like, building you up and telling people what you're doing. A lot of women wouldn't do that.

But like our mindset and society is so wired to be like, only one person can win. No, it's insane. Even like when the show was blowing up and people were liking it, our agents were like, careful. People are looking for a reason to cancel you or to like attack you. And they always like as long as you're having a moment, like no one wants to see you succeed. And it really does suck, honestly. You encourage females to invest in other female startups.

And I think that like just having more conversations around women, I'm in a female founders group chat that's like super supportive. People want that community. Yeah. But I don't know if it's our innate nature to feel threatened by other women. And it's like not necessarily our fault. Yeah. I mean, I certainly, I know people with sisters are supporting most of the time, but it is scary. Then I realized, obviously, I introduced the brand on the show.

because like that was my whole spit. You went in with a plan? Not really. At first I was like, how about I like work for a venture fund and like enter the startup world and do the corporate America to start up? Because I wanted that safety of like not putting myself out there on TV. And like I had this idea before we started filming. But I was like, this is my baby.

Like I don't want to embarrass myself. What if people hate it? And I didn't have a plan yet. I was just quitting my job. And it was, you know, from those sleepless nights where I'd be like, what do I do with this? Like how do I start a company like this? So they were like actually starting a company sounds more fun. Like let's do that. And I was like, okay. Like so they kind of like pushed you along. Push me along. And I was like, okay, fine. And throughout the show, that was all reality of me like testing ideas.

I had already talked to Phoebe and Sophia who gave me amazing advice other than like what was included in the show. It was like an hour long conversation. That scene I like crunched so hard. Oh my gosh. That was actually going to be one of my questions like what's the hardest scene for you to rewop? The Fia scene. 1,000 percent. I don't know if you remember, but there was like math equations on top. It literally was so embarrassing. And it was just embarrassing because I had worked so hard to come off as smart and have my reputation a certain way for so long.

And the show, of course, it's reality, but like made me feel dumb a little bit. I felt fine doing it. I just didn't know what I was talking about, quite honestly. And I feel like every founder, which I love your podcast because of this, talks about even like entrepreneur other entrepreneur podcast talk about founderhood from like I've made it perspective and it's like I can't oh my god it was so hard you know back in the day and it's like oh well that's easy for you to say you have like a multi-million dollar company yeah exactly this is brand new I hadn't even incorporated anything I was idea generating from like step one of like I have a

business idea and circling back to the very beginning that's a big question I get on my DMs is like I have this idea like how do I start? Like what's step one? And literally talk to your friends. Like you see it on the show of me pitching to my sisters, like seeing what sticks. And I was really scared that whatever was perceived on the show, which affect my company. Now I'm realizing like anyone who starts a brand, like the moat used to be the product and whatever you build.

And now it's like distribution. It's like up to you how you use your name and likeness. And if you want to start a company and do right with the world. then use it for that, but they're always going to be married. I was going to ask, like, how have you been able to measure the ROI of fame? Great question for my analytical self. Honestly, the biggest ROI has been in distribute. Like, I'm so grateful that my producers pushed me to introduce Mary and Pip,

on the TV show, because it's sent so many followers to the Instagram. It's given me so much confidence, like, pitching. Pitching, and, like, yeah, it's my biggest advantage. fintech. I'm same tech stack as everyone. I'm rebranding it and I have this distribution, you know, and I am the target market. And so that's been my biggest ROI. Investors wouldn't look my way. Let's just be real if I didn't have a TV show, honestly, and was building a fintech product. There's a million in one of them. My brand deals have double, tripled my rate so I can survive. I can forego my salary in this first raise because I'm making enough money. So the ROI has been, honestly, like a lot of my

confidence. This is so messed up to say maybe, but like I feel like I deserve to be in a lot of rooms now. Do you know what I mean? Whereas before I was like, they're going to find out that like I'm just Brooks's sister or like I don't really know what I'm talking. Like of course that those imposter syndrome things that will always affect women, especially I think, not to speak for all women. If you don't have imposter syndrome, more power to you. A man recently. I can't remember who it was. I said the word imposter syndrome. They were like, what is that? Didn't know the word. had no idea what it meant. I was like, excuse me.

He was like, what is? Oh, that's so interesting. I didn't know about that. I was like, oh my God. Like a white man has no idea what imposter syndrome is. On the flip side of that though, interestingly, I think anyone that like truly knows what it is

and feels like they don't have it is lying. Like it's so hard to not have imposter syndrome. It's so hard. Do you agree with this statement? Fame is a new form of currency for women in business. 1,000 percent. Has there been a situation where it's actually worked against you yet? Oh gosh, I don't want to jinx myself.

Not yet. It's been definitely in my favor. I mean, knock on frickin' wood, like for real. But it hasn't affected me yet. Reality stars walk straight into this like crater economy and it seems so easy. But what was the hardest thing about monetizing your audience and actually going from like stable paycheck to now I'm a freelancer? Oh my gosh. I mean, so many things.

Like, yes, my rate has tripled, but I don't know when any of these checks have come. I think I've gotten paid for a few jobs I've done in the past six months, but I'm really starting to see that the net 60, net 90 affects your day to day. Because I wake up and I'm like, wait, did that check hit? I don't know. And I can't imagine I'm so grateful that I'm getting jobs in the pipeline. So I know something's coming in, but like I have no idea when anything's hitting, which is helpful for what I'm trying to solve for with my company for the inconsistent income. But

walking straight into it, it's almost like, oh, I'm good. You know, like now I will have a bunch of followers and just like post and live the easy, quote, life of an influencer. But no, it's still the constant kind of like hunt and gather anything you can grab, but also stay true to yourself, stay true to your brand. I'm able to have more autonomy in the brands I say yes to, but at the same time, want to say yes to every bag that comes in a way. And then the healthcare thing,

don't get me started. It's crazy. It's insane. I signed up for COBRA when I first went off of my own. I was like, I literally don't have coverage. Like, I need to go and get this Cobra program. What is this? Also, as a Canadian, I had no idea what you had to pay for health care.

Like, this is so crazy. It's ridiculous. Do you think that people overestimate or underestimate pay for reality TV stars. I cannot speak for every show. Like, I have no idea what the standard is. But, like, from episode one, you guys were getting paid. Yeah. We got paid per episode. It was like we were employed by Disney. Disney. Yeah. And did it go up every single episode or it stayed consistent for the season? No. It was like a salary, like a paycheck, but we got paid weekly. So it was like we could live off of it, if that makes sense. And did you and your sisters all get paid equally?

I think Brooks got more. because she's an executive producer, so it makes sense. And that's usually how the brand deals go. She has over a million followers. As we know, we have under 100. So we're like, so baby. Does she remind you of that? We get reminded of that.

We definitely get put in our place if we get too big for our riches, which we need. We need a leader that can slap us into shape. Yeah. But she definitely gets paid more, obviously, because she brings us a lot of deals, which is so weird. Because you now have the same agent, right? We have the same agent. Yeah.

Yeah, WME, love. WME, you also have a chief brand officer. Chief brand officer, Lee Fiddler, our president. We are obsessed. She met Brooks probably like five or six years ago. She worked as like a partnerships person at Dior. She was in the show. She was in the show.

Yeah, yeah. When Brooks missed Grace Ann's birthday. Correct. Yeah. Yeah, for that shoot. So she met Brooks. and Dior didn't want to book Brooks because she was in her older Brooks era. Okay.

And Lee was like, I see potential in you. And they stayed in touch. And then she started, Lee has her own PR firm called Privy PR. Okay. And she started getting Brooks random jobs and like reviewing contracts for her. And Brooks was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like you're amazing. You're coming on board. So then we brought her on board.

She's also like a sister. Like we were in Vegas celebrating also her bachelorette this weekend. I feel like you guys are building like the Kardashians. Like you're putting in a chief brand off. there's an agent now coming in to represent you guys. Do you like or do you hate being compared to the Kardashians? I think we're lukewarm on that. Like we don't necessarily like to comment on it because we feel like we're so different. Yeah. Like we came from Louisiana. We love them. We grew up kind of watching them when we were allowed to. Very Christian household. But we really do

respect everything that we built and we love their sister bond. But we're just so different. A, they're miles ahead in terms of like how long they've been doing the show. B, they came from Beverly Hills, totally different background. We came from Louisiana, totally different background. Also, it's a New York versus L.A. show. Yeah. Which I feel is completely different. Totally different age groups, you know.

Yeah. Like they have a bunch of kids. We don't yet. We're in totally different stages of life. So I think that like it's very easy to make that comparison just because it's like four sisters. It's four sisters. It's four sisters.

I'm sure the cul-po is when they had their show. show were compared to the Kardashians too. But we just feel like the show is completely different than theirs. If anything, we're compared more to sex in the city then. Who are you? Everyone says I'm Charlotte, but like, I don't get that energy from you at all. But that's what I'm saying. I think that you get a little bit of each character of yourself at different times,

even in the show. Yeah. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero? More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. So you talked a little bit about New York versus L.A. Do you feel like it is better to build a company right now being in New York? York. I do. Yeah. But you come to L.A. because your boyfriend is based here. Correct. Is your boyfriend

still the same boyfriend from the show? Yes. Jules. And he is a lord. He is a lord. Now how long have you guys for? We've been dating for like over a year. Honestly, we kicked it off when Brooks was on Dancing Dancing with the Stars and he had just moved out here. And how did you guys meet? We were friends for two years before. Really cute. Is this why you invited me to the British Consulate event last? week. Because, like, I was, like, connecting the dots. I'm like, he's a Lord from Britain. I'm going to. Is it for? So, I met him through Jules. I did. But that was like a separate. Now we're friends. Okay. Yes. He, Oliver's amazing. But I'm, I did meet him through Jules. So yeah, that actually does check out. And next time, you'll come. I'm coming. I'm the best. But we were friends for two years. And he was

like courting me, I guess you could say as a friend. And I was like, ew, like, if obviously, if someone's into you. I didn't want anything to do with him as my 24 year old self. And it's like a 12 year age gap. Okay. Yeah, I'm 14. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's 39. I'm 27. And so he like basically two years was making it known that he liked me. My sister's like, you know, Jules is obsessed with you. Like every time they met him. Yes, they introduced us. Okay. And I, we met because he was kind of on the scene a little bit, like DJing, you know, on the weekends, but also worked in finance. So he's a finance bro. So he's a finance.

Okay. But not, I don't like finance bro. Okay. So yeah. Let's make that distinction. Very clear. He is in European equity stuff. Okay.

In L.A. So he's very much like L.A. Surfer has a motorcycle. Like his own self doesn't act like a finance bro at all. And that's why I was attracted to him as a friend because I was like, oh, there's another double lifer. Yeah. He worked in finance.

And also so he basically invited me for a coffee chat drinks after work one day. Like, come on. know. We had that first, like, networking drink. And he courted me for two years and then invited me to Wimbledon as like a friend. Obviously. First date, Wimbledon. No, no, no. It was like, to your friendship. You're going to be in Europe. Come to Wimbledon. If you have his friends and me. But, like, had never gone on a trip. We had seen each other, like, once a month out. Like, we weren't super good friends by any means. He made it clear to always be in my text a little bit. like over Christmas would send me pictures in the Cotswold.

It's like really cute in hindsight looking back, keeping up. And I was too nice to not reply. Like I really didn't like him. And I was like cute love, cute nieces, like whatever. So then I went to Wimbledon with him. And I was like, oh my God, you're kind of like, he like had the setup at Wimbledon. It was like being such a good host. Had me my own hotel room.

Love that. I literally called my sisters and was like, do I like have to make out with him if I go to Wembleden? They were like, yeah. and like you should. Like the kids Wumbled in. They were like, you don't get that ticket easy. I was like, alright, fine. Like I will.

So we went to Wimbledon and like basically fell in love there, which was last summer. So it's been like over a year. And how was it introducing him to the world on the show? Thank God he did not want to be on it. Yeah. But he was still on it a little. But he was on it. And I honestly felt bad for him because he was on it.

Because if he came to visit me in New York, like cameras were rolling and he couldn't get out of it. because it was truly reality. So he really didn't want to be on it that much, but he was like, I support you. I'm not taking myself too seriously to not be on it. So I felt kind of bad, but he literally was on it just for me.

And he was like, can they not talk about like my title? Of course, that was the first thing. The whole bit. Lord. We were like, yeah, sorry. That's like a good one. We have to bring that up.

He's private about it usually. Sorry, babe. Yeah. It's all over now. But it doesn't mean like anything crazy. Yeah. Just that he's a lord. Just that he's a lord.

And you would be a lady if you got married. And I'd yeah, be a lady if I took his name. And how is it building a business in New York, traveling cross country to see him? Like how are you balancing it all? I love the long distance right now because when I'm in New York, I grind and like see my people and get shit done. And when I come out here, my time is super intentional with him. And again, he is so supportive of me building. this business, but at the same time, I don't know. How do you manage the work-life balance?

Because I feel like I have a pretty balanced as a founder. I'm working all the time, but I turn off. I like hang out with him. We go on bike rides in Venice. I'm a West Side girl. I love that. So if you moved here, you'd go to the ocean. I'd go to the ocean if I moved here, which I don't plan on moving here. Okay. Does he plan moving to New York? That's the first question anyone asked. And of course it was the- He was like one of my last questions that I asked. No, yeah, that's so fair. But it was a cliffhanger on the show, too. So it's fair that everyone asked that.

But I'm like, why does one have to move to the other? Yeah. And I feel like in life it's a lot of like, when is one moving? When are you all getting married? When are you having babies? When are you having another kid? Where are she going to school? Like, you can never just be, you know?

We've been dating for one year and thank God. And one of the reasons I love him doesn't pressure me at all into getting married. Even though he's so much older, having kids. I never wanted any of that because I was kind of like up the patriarchy mindset when I graduated school. And so he doesn't pressure me into that. And so I'm like, I don't see either of us moving. But he is very much more traditional minded.

And he's like, if we get married, I want us to be in the same place. And I'm like, I personally think that we don't have to be. Yeah. Like when I'm here, I think that we're, we have such a strong foundation because we started long distance and because we are. And I feel like if you really love someone long distance, like it's just. shouldn't be that hard. I am so happy that I had really long periods of time in my 20s being single because I got to be so selfish. And like I didn't have to prioritize other people. And now I'm in a

different phase where it's like, I'm trying to answer the question. Can someone have it all? Can someone be an amazing wife? Starting a family. Also building a business, building an empire, being the face of a podcast. Can I do that? And it's actually a huge challenge. I'm trying. But it's like I only think it will be possible because I spent the time being so fucking selfish and getting so much farther ahead. I didn't spend my 20s at all being doting, even in previous relationships. Like I was really selfish. Yeah. This is the first relationship. I am not selfish. Like, truly. Honestly, you still should be. I know. I know. I know. A little bit more selfish. Yeah. And I think that being selfish is such a thing. Like we should be selfish as women in our 20s. And that means sometimes,

depending on who you are working a corporate job. And I think that really helped me learn how to work a room, learn how to be disciplined, learn how to time management. And that gives me so much more like freedom to breathe now. But again, the guilt of being a founder and not staying up until 2 a.m. every night. Sometimes I'm like, am I doing it wrong?

No, I think you're doing it right because you're going to have longevity. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about Marian Pip. What exactly are you building in the personal finance space? Yeah. So obviously when I was at work, I was also modeling and I would go to these events, say I worked in finance and just be swarmed by the end of the night. Because this generation, ours, our generations to come by 2027,

over 50% of the workforce is going to be freelance without a 9 to 5. As much as I praise the 9 to 5 for a little bit, most people are entering the freelance mindset. And like we were saying earlier, there's no guidebook. And like I say in the show, for what retirement account to open, how to invest, how to save. And I am under the mindset of like, as much as everyone says, oh, once I learn finance, I'll be able to do it. No one is wanting to learn anymore, honestly. But they read headlines. Yeah. Yeah.

They don't read the article. Exactly. Exactly. And like everyone's selling you something online, like selling a course. And if you just do this, then you'll be financially literate and you can get it all together. And I'm like, no one wants to do that. There needs to be a place for people to go to know what retirement account to open, know what to invest and know what to save in and have it done for them. Be a little bit more bespoke than like

the traditional retail clients at Chase Bank or wherever it is, but don't have the net worth necessarily to go to a private bank. So there's like that sweet spot of people who are freelancing making like $200,000, $300,000 a year but have no bespoke solutions. So what we're building is a financial lifestyle brand essentially. Also notice that when I would suggest opening accounts places to my friends, they'd be like, oh, it's overwhelming. They're trying to sell me a credit card. They're trying to sell me this. They're trying to sell me that.

All the fintechs look the same, like blue, gray, white, green, whatever. Like, betterment vibes. Betterment vibes. Yeah. Love betterment, but I know how to use it, you know? And people are like, see it and they're like, uh, not my vibe. Yeah. So I wanted to combine fashion with finance and make it like a cultural rebrand of Wall Street

and meet this generation of creatives where they are without any judgment, without any, like, expectations of knowing anything. I partnered with a behavioral psychologist called Atlas Point. It's like a company for financial advisors. But we're tailoring kind of everything to how you think about money and your relationship with money. So right now, at this moment and time, we are not giving financial advice. It is just education and just kind of rebranding some of those conversations with the

psychology lens to it of, like, what is your financial DNA? How did you grow up with money? How are you thinking about it? How does dopamine addiction affect your relationship with money? Like there's just so many things that are we're putting into the product that is soon to come in this branding of demystifying finance, demystifying the industry and like taking away all of the judgment from it and really focusing in on freelancers. I love that. Like we were saying, I don't know when my next paycheck is going to hit. There's no seamless way.

because of that there's such avoidance, there's such analysis paralysis, and it's almost like you're scrambling for your next job. Of course you don't have time to worry about finance. Like you don't have time to get out a spreadsheet. Like who is going to build a spreadsheet? Honestly, even I don't budget. Yeah. So right now I'm just trying to have the conversation on the socials, on follow Mary and Pip, on the newsletter, the substack of like just making people feel okay and not as judged for not knowing what the hell is going on. Yeah. And it's really not that hard.

Like there's three accounts you really need and nothing more, nothing less. You don't need to invest in all of these crazy things. I mean, most of our generation takes financial advice from influencers. Yeah. Who aren't legally allowed to give that advice. So we're trying to brand this company like someone,

like you're talking to a friend, but also have the backing of actual financial institutions. and actual compliance, which is why we can't give financial advice right now. I love it. When is it going to launch? We've launched like the brand, the additional portion of it. So stay tuned there and stay tuned on the website. We're going to launch a beta program in early 2026.

Cool. And then ideally Q3, 202026, Q4, 2026 launch, go-to-market. And unlike most tech companies and mostly finance companies, we want the community to feel like they're building it with us. Yeah. which was part of the reason why I brought it up on the show because finance is so iron gates. We know more than you. They do a great job of gatekeeping information.

And we want to not only talk about finance in a demystified way, but like build an actual brand and show you, why can't you talk about it? Like, why can't we give financial advice? And we're going to talk a lot on TikTok and in future entertainment stuff about who is the SEC and why are they important? Why are they protecting you? you know so there's like a lot of things that we're trying to teach in a fun way and not necessarily like take this boot camp or like all of our content right now is free love that i'm not trying to

monetize this at all i just want to like really learn from my customer right now so that we build for something that they actually need okay rapid fire okay i'm ready biggest ick in finance bro culture pedagonia vs can't okay fuck mary kill ooh finance bro tech bro tech bro Bro, VC. Oh, God. I guess my boyfriend's a finance, bro. So, Mary. Fawc.

I feel like they're just like testosteroneed off. Yeah. And then kill, I guess. I don't know. They're so sweet. But yeah, Kill a Tech, bro. Okay. Would you rather pay with a credit card or cash?

I don't like credit cards, hot take. But credit card, I guess, for the point. Okay. What is a worst red flag? low credit score or low emotional intelligence. Low EQ. Okay. For sure.

Would you rather be in or out on a Friday night? In. Ooh, I love that. Okay. Text or phone confrontation. Not with your sister, like with a friend. Oh, confrontation, phone. Okay.

Splurge on beauty or fashion? Fashion. What is a subscription you need to cancel? I fell for one of those like agents a while ago, AI agents when I was in my AI era that I've never used and it has like all my logins. So need to get rid of that. Okay. And the question you've been waiting for, Mary Holland, what is the last thing that you put on your credit card? Oh, a perplexity membership for my business. So. And what is the last most expensive thing you put on your credit card? An NAD drip. They're kind of pricey. In Vegas. No, in New York. Okay. You just went raw dogging in Vegas. I don't. I brought down to, but you would think I got an IV in Vegas, but no, I was just having a healthy week and dropped a bag on an NAD drip. How much is an NAD drip? They're like at least $900. Oh, I know. But I budget for a splurge a month, an investment in myself. Okay. I say, and it's either like, it's usually an IV or facial or massage. And I had a good month. So I obviously allocate more from each paycheck if I know more money's coming in. So I had some extra for my invest in myself. So I was like, I'm going to get an NAD.

Yeah. Longevity. Okay, Mary Holland, I'm obsessive to you. Where can people find you? Find me on Instagram, but I don't care if you follow me. Follow Mary and Pip. That's how you know. She's a true entrepreneur.

Exactly. Don't even worry about me and substack if you're an intellect and you want to share some thoughts. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on. And I can't wait for you to come back. Yes. Back soon.