Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Natalie Holloway, Founder of Bala, On How She Built Bala to $20M, Survived Nearly Going Bankrupt & Balanced Motherhood

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

On this episode of Hot Smart Rich, Maggie Sellers sits down with Natalie Holloway, co-founder of Bala, the brand that made fitness hot. Natalie built Bala into a $20M business with a Shark Tank deal from Mark Cuban, faced near bankruptcy, and navigated the rollercoaster of entrepreneurship—all while raising three kids under four. The conversation gets real as Natalie shares the hardest moments of scaling Bala, from the chaos of explosive growth during COVID to nearly losing the company. She breaks down what saved the business, why she prioritizes profit overgrowth, and how she made the tough call to lay off nearly her entire team while pregnant. Maggie and Natalie also dive into motherhood, ambition, and the reality of balancing it all—plus, Natalie shares what really happened with Bala’s Drunk Elephant drama, how she deals with copycats, and why she believes affiliate marketing is the future for brands. Key Takeaways You can build a $20M brand without raising big VC money. Bala’s success proves that profitability is more important than endless fundraising. Natalie and her husband bootstrapped their way to the top—then nearly lost it all. Scaling fast can break you. Bala blew up overnight after Shark Tank and COVID, but hypergrowth almost killed the business. Natalie shares the hard truth about layoffs, cash flow, and surviving the free fall. Motherhood and entrepreneurship? There’s no perfect balance. Natalie had to make brutal business decisions while pregnant. The real talk: founders don’t get maternity leave, and work-life balance is a myth. Copycats and competition will come—so stay ahead. Drunk Elephant launched a Bala-inspired product. Knockoffs are everywhere. The only way to win is to innovate faster than they can copy. The smartest founders are shifting from influencers to affiliates. Natalie shares why paying influencers big bucks is outdated and why affiliate marketing is the new power move for brands. Negotiate like a man. Women are still underpricing themselves in business. Natalie learned to ask for more, own her worth, and not settle for the first offer. Bala is just getting started. NYC fitness studio? More retail expansion? Natalie spills what’s next and why she’s betting big on IRL experiences and digital fitness. Items Mentioned in This Episode Bala — the original workout bangles. Shop here. Form x Bala — the set. Shop here. Connect with Maggie Instagram:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@maggiesellers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@maggiesellers_⁠⁠⁠ YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@hotsmartrich⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Maggie Sellers⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Natalie Instagram: @natalieholloway, @bala & Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Third time's a charm. Let's do it. Natalie Holloway, are you ready to get hot, smart rich? I'm so ready. I'm so happy that you're here because you are such a girl's girl, and I'm going to go into why later on in this episode.

But you just had your third baby. You're the founder of Bala, which I'm wearing. This is my first workout since my breast augmentation, which don't tell my doctor. And you're here five weeks after having a baby. So thank you so much for being here, first of all. Thank you for having me. It's crazy to be out in the world a little bit. Is this your first thing back since Matt leave?

I've like left the house a couple times, going to the park, things like that. But probably my first like work thing. Oh, I'm so honored. What made you want to do it? I was like, I want to be on your podcast. It's a great opportunity. So that was an easy yes. And my schedule is actually weirdly like completely clear since it is Matt leave technically.

Yeah. So I have, you know, some free time. But do you feel like you ever really get a mat leave when you're the founder of a company? No. You don't. I mean, you do in the sense that I am downshifting and like doing a couple months without calls. But it's my baby. It's like my fourth baby.

It's your first baby. Yeah, it's my first baby. So I have to check in on it. But I'm also, you know, my partner is my husband. So he's like doing all of the work and kind of just like keeping me updated. So it's just like a founder's version of Matt leave. I have such ADHD that you just said three things. I was like, we need to touch on all of those.

But we're going to start by taking it back a second. So I just like I love to start podcast just so chill. Just like get easy and get going. Yeah. What is your day in a life typically as a founder and then versus being a mom now? Like in your Matt leave, what is your day in life like? Oh, like right now. Yeah.

Well, okay, let's see. Three kids. Okay, so four year old, two year old, zero year old. And so my day right. now is like honestly mostly like breastfeeding and pumping all day long that's like first and foremost. I love the vulnerability. Yes. I mean it is. It's like you literally are like breastfeeding and pumping like eight hours a day when you add it all up. So that's like the main priority. And then also like trying to get in time with the four year old and the two year old making them feel not neglected or anything like that. And then Bala's like less of a priority right now. So of course I'm still like I'm probably like emailing an hour a day or something or. Or. doing an occasional, not a call, actually. So certainly some emails. Yeah.

You know? It's so amazing to have you on because one of the requests that I've gotten from our community so far, because people have been loving it. And I'm so honored to hear this is like the first thing you wanted to do to come back. But people really want mom stories. And actually personally, like why I started this podcast is because like I want to learn. And I don't want to come across as the expert. And I'm 32.

I'm with the person I'm going to be with forever. And, you know, we are talking about. family planning and it is fucking terrifying to think about having a baby and deprioritizing my career and choosing family over that. But it's also like the thing I know is like the right decision. But even taking yourself back five years ago before you had your first child, like was that a hard decision for you to come to terms with? Yeah. And I've actually heard that a lot from people like they're so scared that they won't have time for the business and all of that. But I mean, I think, yes, it was definitely scary.

And with my first kid, I was, like, in very much, like, ball of building mode. So I probably, like, worked a lot through it. But now my priorities have shifted a little bit. And I would say, don't be scared of it because all it's just going to make you way more efficient. I'm sure you've heard that, like, moms are the most efficient people ever because you know what to say no to. So it's, like, already you're, like, so good at prioritizing things. and then you just create systems, which is how you build a good business anyway.

Like you create systems in your own life to make it all work because you have, all of a sudden you have a lot to do. And then outsourcing. Like you will just outsource a lot of stuff. Do you mean like outsource personal life or your business life more? Honestly, both because I'm like if I have to like drive to the office to do some sort of meeting, like is there any way I could outsource that? You know, an errand maybe is a good example.

Yeah. Is there like some sort of ball of errand I have to go to? Like do I have to? Can I outsource that? If you can, you should because now it's like two hours out of my life is better spent like maybe paying somebody to do it so I could spend time with my kids. And I think that's like something that definitely shifts as a mom. Do you feel like you're there for all of the major moments for your kids or are there sacrifices that you have to make when you're like, I actually do need to prioritize the business right now over like being there 24-7 if you were a stay-at-home. mom. What's crazy about building your own business is you're really building the freedom. So I actually

don't have to miss anything. If anything, I can go to more. I can block off my schedule any day and be like, I'm going to go on that field trip. Yeah. Whereas like maybe if I worked for somebody else, I couldn't. Yeah. So that's like what right now, like in your building era, like it's like that's what should inspire you because you're able to say no to what you want and build the freedom in your schedule. So I don't really have to miss anything. Of course, I'm not like staying at home. all day long, stay at home mom style, but I can make my schedule, you know, how I want it. Yeah. So that's, there's freedom there for sure.

So right now you have three kids all under the age of four. Even saying that out loud is terrifying. It's nuts. It's nuts. Okay. So you said that when you had your first kid, you were in like Bala building mode. What year of Bala are you in right now? Well, it's our sixth year.

Okay. So it's just like at this point, we're a little bit more established. like we have our team, we have our systems created. We're more like a little bit of a well-oiled machine. And I'm not doing everything like I once was. And I would say when my son was born, I was doing everything. I probably was like answering customer service emails,

shipping product, like literally everything. Yeah. So there was no slowing down. I probably just did it with like a baby in my carrier, you know, at all times. But now I'm able to, there's just like, it's more of a well-oiled machine. Yeah. And do you feel like now you're in a place where you're doing the work that you actually enjoy more because you get to pick and choose that and you've brought in like a team that can almost do the work you didn't like better than you?

Yes, definitely. Like I can say, of course there's always going to be like grunt work and things you don't want to do like spreadsheets or accounting, whatever that is for you. But I definitely get to do more of what I love. What do you love? I actually really love. I love things like this. I love panels. I love giving like business advice.

So I love all of that. On Bala, I love like social media and marketing. My husband does all the product, but that's also exciting. There's like, there's a lot of us. So does he do like product innovation? He's literally designed every product we have. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

So was his background in product design? No, he was in advertising. But I think what's so interesting about the dynamic between motherhood and founder life is like you did start the business with your partner, like your romantic partner who's now your husband. You guys did start the business like seven weeks into dating, right? Yes. We started it like super early. Like right into date.

Like we just started dating and that's when we quit our jobs and traveled and went on this crazy trip and started the business. And then fast forward seven years. Like the thing that I think is so interesting to look back on now is all of the learnings on like a personal side and a business side. Like what do you guys think that you've done really well as a teammate? and what do you guys look back on? You're like, oof, I wish that we had done that differently.

Let's see. What we did really well is at this stage, though, we didn't do it at the beginning. So that's maybe like a little bit of answer to your question. But at the beginning, we were kind of all in everything together, like in each other's business and categories and all of that. And that really wasn't working, especially as a romantic partner. It's like, I don't need to be his boss. He doesn't need to be my boss.

And so what we realize really works for us is establish. our own swim lanes. So it's like product is his. Like he asked for my advice and feedback, but it's like that's his, like I'm not on product calls because that's his. And so we essentially, we divide and conquer the business. So it helps us like because we are in a relationship to have our own swim lanes, not be on like stepping on each other's toes. Like we're kind of like the boss in our own areas. And then I think also it really helps us like divide and conquer the business. So we're able to like, you know, do twice as many calls a day if we're not on the same calls, you know? So I think that's something that now we're doing right and we didn't at the beginning.

Something I really struggle with with that, though, is like when I see a decision get made across the business that I don't agree with or I think is like detrimental to the brand that we're building, I find it very hard to be like, well, that's not my swim lane. Like I'm not going to go in there. how do you guys figure out how to have constructive conversations when you're like, oh, I really don't think that product's going to work or I don't like the colors that we're choosing or the material doesn't make sense. And then same when he sees something you're doing on brand or marketing. And he's like, why did you say that or do that? Like, how do you guys handle those disagreements? So we definitely do that. I could think of like three examples like this week that happened where it's like, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have approved that.

Do you say that to him? Both of us. But I think what we learned is instead of coming at it like, hey, why'd you do this? I wouldn't have done that, like aggressive. It's almost like therapy. It's like if you come at it with kindness, you know, I feel like it's like an approachable conversation and then you can like remedy the situation. But yeah, we've had many instances of that. I'm like thinking of them literally over the last few weeks of just like little riffs, not fights, but like, hey, that's not how I would have done it. And then we have a constructive conversation about it. But I think for the most part, it's like you have to trust the decision makers, you know? And then if it's like a big deal to you, then you can approach

it way. But I agree. It's like it's hard to let go of control. It's so hard to let go of control, especially when it's like it is your baby, right? And I think you are so tied to Bala as like the face of the brand. And I saw even I think it was yesterday. You came online on TikTok and you were like, hey, drunk elephant. These are. I know. It's like the first time we've really like done that. I need to talk about this. So there was a video on TikTok where a girl was doing a, uh, unboxing of a package from drunk elephant. And they tagged Bala in the comments being like, oh my God, my bangles. And you came on and you were like, hey, those aren't ours, but they literally look exactly

the same. You have dealt with this your entire career. Like you guys pioneered an industry of like fashion luxury meets at home fitness and not even at home fitness fitness. How do you deal with so many copycats? It's so frustrating. and it's it's even like more frustrating for uh max because like he literally like designed like the beam from his mind and then he's like you know you go see a copy everywhere and by people like we've gifted

and things like that so it's like my it's more frustrating for him for me i'm kind of like you have to that's just that's the nature of it think about fashion like fashion is copying from the runway like it's just part of it and if anything it just like inspires you to continue innovating because you can let it eat you alive, but it's like, what is that going to do? You just kind of have to keep innovating. But it is so frustrating. And people just don't know. Like, they may see the product and just think that person made it up, but it's like we worked, you know, for seven years on these products. So the junk elephant thing, we normally don't call people out because like there are thousands of scenarios that have happened to us. And it's disheartening because there's not much you can do

about it. But the junk elephant one we called out because we were getting tag. So did they I'm like crazy on Instagram, like people thinking we did a collab with them. And it's like they know who we are. They know better. They know what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. We're in touch with their attorneys because for them, it's like not like making an example of them,

but they know what they're doing. They were trying to make it look like a Bala and then they put their logo on it and it's not Bala. So it's like, and everyone's tagging us in it. So we didn't do a collab with them. So we were like, let's start saying something. Yeah. I'm actually so happy that you did because I think that's what this place is supposed to be is

like the real conversations of what happens. And this is a real thing that happens in business. Like trademarking and patents and like all of the things that like your consumption or your consumer behavior and like their perception is actually reality. I remember when I first entered into entertainment, somebody was like perception is reality. And if you have your customers tagging Bala and it's not your brand, it's like you should be saying something. Were you afraid to put out that video? A little bit. But, At this point, like, we have not said something for so long that I was like, we have to, like, we have to say something.

This is like a brand that has the same customer base as us. These are our, you know, influencers tagging us. And it's causing confusion. And they know better. That's the biggest thing. I'm like, they know better. Why do you think that they would have done that, though, instead of just doing a collab? Like, how did you, how do you guys typically, like, especially for a PR unboxing?

Like, how would you guys price something like that normally? A lot of times we might have just gifted. Literally. We might, we probably would have just. gifted it. So instead of like sending a cease and desist, it's like, here's a gift for your PR. Yeah. Or charging wholesale. Yeah. A lot of times we charge wholesale because, you know, you have certain limitations with what you really can gift. So like wholesale is our strategy. So when you guys did your collab with Pucci, walk us through how that came to be and how it's been

perceived so far in the market. So let's see. I mean, they reached out and they wanted to do a collab and this is probably like a year or a year and a half ago because sometimes it takes forever. and we worked with their team to match the colors and like collaborate on that and the photo shoot and all of that and it came, you know, it's probably like, yeah, a year in the making. But we're really excited about this one because it's like, you know, very fashion forward brand, like Italian and chic. And I, we got a lot of really good response. Do you mean like press response or consumer like behavior purchasing response?

Well, purchasing response. I think we sold out of two of the three products, but also just like consumer, it's like everyone I seen. I was like, oh my gosh, I saw poochie. You know, almost like talk value response on social, of course, as well, media, all of that. But like more than that, like anecdotally when I'm walking around and I see somebody I know, they're like, oh my gosh, I saw poochie. For sure.

It was huge. It made a splash. And this was probably my favorite collab we've done. So it was very exciting. So you pick favorite children. I'm just kidding. I know, right? That's bad. I don't yet. Well, favorite children of your clubs, yeah. For sure. How did you guys, are you able to share how you structured the deal? Like, did you, can you share a little bit about that? Yeah, I would say a lot of ours are like different structure. It really depends. Like for free people, let's say,

if we're doing a collab with them, they're one of our big retailers. They'll just buy it at wholesale. Yeah. And then we'll work back and forth on like what the design and the pantons will be. But for a collab that we're like really all in on, which probably happens four times a year or something, like Pucci. It is actually for them, they bought wholesale. So for the most part, buying at wholesale is like how it works. Sometimes it's like a rev share, but I would say 90% of our clubs, they just buy it wholesale. We work directly with the teams and it's structured differently.

Like sometimes we split the photo shoot costs. That's what I was going to say like marketing costs. Yeah. Like it just depends on everyone's budgets, but for the most part, things are split. And do you feel like you've had a waterfall effect of like really cool brands now being in your DMs after Pucci being like, we want to collab? Yeah, definitely. I would say there's definitely some brands up in our DMs.

Can you share like the coolest brand that's in your DMs? Oh, God. I don't know. I feel, oh, we had a like a funny, just like interesting one, Lisa Frank. I feel like that was like not the coolest brand, but it's just like nostalgic. So I'll show you. Okay. And I don't know, it has to be in Canada too.

It's like literally when you were like 11. Oh. Lisa Frank backpack. I don't know. Okay. You have to show me after. We'll put it on the screen. Yeah.

nostalgia for me. And then have you guys ever collab with creators? You know, oh, the one creator club we have, but more it's, it's more of a brand. Okay. Yeah. Sammy Clark. Yeah. But it's through form.

So it's really a brand. But that would be like the Sammies would be the creators there. Yeah. How did that one do? Do you have one potentially in the works though? Can you share any like secrets about it? Sneak Peaks? Well, it's not like solidified, but it would be like in the heavier lifting category.

Okay, love that. How did the Sammy's club do? It's ongoing. So they, which is, this is honestly the best thing because instead of the Sammies, they could like go and get like the knockoff bengals and all that stuff. But instead they worked with us. Like we have the form logo, the ball logo. We've collabed on in marketing.

And it's just an ongoing partnership. So they're, they just place orders with us. and then they sell to their customers, like a retailer, which is nice, because instead of just like copying us and going against the patent and stuff, they worked with us. And it's mutually beneficial because then you get access to these ravenous fans of Form and the Samis, which is a crazy community. Like, they just have such an amazing loyal fan base. And I think that's what is so interesting about that type of a collab is you're able to tap

into that creator economy without having to pay these crazy rates. I feel like I don't see you guys spending a ton of. money on influencer marketing. Does that a lot of your budget go towards influencers or not really? No, not really. On huge like affiliate program and TikTok shop affiliate. But for the most part, and every now and then when we do a launch, like we'll do some paid creators, but it's not a huge budget. Why do you think you guys have stayed away from influencer marketing? Well, we do it with like affiliates and stuff. So we still do. Okay. I would say it's still a big part of the business, but we don't have like huge influencer budgets because of our affiliate programs.

So we're... Because they work really well. They work really well. So the thing is like they, they, you know how it works, but it's like they do make money. For sure. You know, it's like... Well, it's interesting because like I can use as an example, but these pants are basically the only things that I've fit into.

And I literally posted like one Instagram story and one email and linked them. And I sold like $11,000 with these pants. And it's crazy. So you got like $1,500 or something. Probably. Like if I add it up, right? And it's like I feel like maybe my conversion is a little bit higher because I never really push products on people. I don't think that's like an every time I'm selling something. And I don't think about something. I'm just thinking about sharing what I actually love. And I think that's what's so great about affiliate marketing. But I do think that based on the stage of your brand and I think you guys are like you said a little bit further along where like bringing in those bigger creators or like even a celebrity face. Like have you guys like why have you guys never brought in a celebrity face or a on like a big splashy moment with like a huge celebrity that could just put you at a different level. Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting question. I mean, we have Maria Sharpova as an investor.

So I would say that's like our like that's what we I just I don't know. The budgets are crazy or you have to give away a percentage of your company and it's just not been top of mind. Yeah, I mean, we've like we've gotten almost into deals before. But I just think we're always looking at on like is there a return on an investment and there might not be yeah you know because of the budget is so crazy for that and I've always been like more of a fan of like the micro strategy in general and just having like a lot of affiliates micro like you just said yeah you sold 11000 dollars and you made $1,500 from that or $2,000 whatever you made and that might be that's like that is an influencer budget it's just like hey you get if this works we both you know get paid from this

Totally. My crush before my boyfriend was Mark Cuban. I am. Have you ever met him? No. Okay. I feel like you have to meet him. It is my dream.

Throw it out there. Like, yeah, like I am manifesting having Mark Cuban on this podcast. And I know that when you went on Shark Tank, you got a deal from Maria Sharpova and Mark Cuban. What is working with Mark Cuban like? I mean, he, he's a cool dude for sure.

He literally, I think he's amazing, very interesting because, he's like if you email him he'll email back like I heard that should I just email him and be like I have a boyfriend but I used ever crush on you know literally no but I heard he and say come on my podcast he might honestly uh he's like he gives really good advice he's like a conservative businessman and he like knows when thing I'm about to email him after this about something but tell him that he should come on my podcast I'd be like p.s I was at him smart rich and he loves you I mean she loves you um but yeah no he's a he's a cool guy who's like a conservative businessman who has great advice Okay.

So. And does he push the product ever? Like, does he promote it? I think he's done like two stories. Okay. But he's not really active on social. Which I love. But if I reached out, I'm sure he would.

Okay. For anything. Like, we like to reserve our favors. He went on a South by Southwest panel with us. That was a big deal. Huge. You know, his time is probably worth $100,000 an hour. Yeah, he's like a billionaire.

So you guys have only raised from Maria Sharapova, Mark Cuban. And then you guys did a small inside around that I saw. Sidecar. You did it on. Yes. Have you guys raised any other money? No. And that was very small. That was like, yeah. How much money have you guys raised total? Like 950,000. Are you able to share how much you're doing in revenue or now? Yeah. I mean, this year, we're going to do over 20. Amazing. Is that over 20. I love that you're so open. Can I tell you? Like, that is what is so rare in this industry is like as, and this is what I wanted to bring up at the very beginning. Like, you are such a girl's girl. Like when you were nine months pregnant, you came to my event and I was just like, I don't know the last thing I did before I had the baby this is okay so you heard it here first the last thing she did before she was yeah I'm like are you obsessed with me I'm just kidding oh my god that's so creepy of me no it just goes to show like you are such a girl's girl and I think it is so hard

to find in this industry it's like there is I think amongst female founders there's a lot of sharing that goes on of like how things are actually what investors are like but there's also a lot that I feel like people do gatekeep and they do keep for themselves and they're like, I was introduced this investor, but I'm not going to introduce you because like, what if they invest over you? And it's like what people don't remember is like, everybody loves a good deal. So if you introduce Mark Cuban to a good investment and you make him money, like, that only looks good on you.

And I think like that's what I've loved about you is just like your openness and you're willing to like be there when it's not convenient or when it's just like not comfortable. And also just like share that you're going to do. over $20 million of revenue with a $900,000 investment. Like, that's crazy. How did you get to that point? It's been a long road of up and down and, you know, but we're, I mean, I would say, okay, like, snapshot is COVID.

You kind of know our story. I know, like, I didn't know if you were going to be willing on, to talk about it. Okay, let's talk about COVID and then like what happened after to COVID. Yeah, okay. So it really was crazy because we started the brand as a complete side hustle. We literally have on our vision board like 10 units a day, like wish we could sell 10 units a day. That's nothing compared to now. And so it was just a side project.

So anyway, we launched, but then the perfect storm of Shark Tank and COVID happened. Yeah. Two years into the business. So that was like the year we literally went from two to 20 million. It's like out there the story. But two to 20 million. But then what happened is we were like, okay, we're doing two million with a couple people on the team. It was like my husband and myself.

We need to like hire people. We need to like spend the money, you know, like get the website, do the photo shoots, like spend all the money, basically. And we were super profitable because of the lean team. So fitness was soaring. You know, all indicators were that like this was going to continue. And so I think the next year we had projected a growth year like maybe 24 or 25 million. But what happened and said is it was a down year.

And so we had hired 30 people. people on the team. And we basically, after a few rounds of layoffs and this down year, it was the year that, you know, like Peloton was going down. Like everyone knows fitness was going down that year, I think was 20. At home fitness because everyone was going back to the gym. Exactly. Exactly. And so we were not prepared for that. And when you're not VC backed, a down year of like even a couple million like really impacts your cash flow. Like we were like, we need to like fire people like yesterday. So after a few rounds, we went all the way down to three people. My husband, myself, and Brooke, who I'm sure you've met on our team, who's our CBO now.

So literally went down to three people. And it was like, okay, all of a sudden, we had to do everything. Like, I had to do all of our wholesale business, which is like thousands of wholesale retailers. And so it was a really dark time. We were like almost going to go out of business, like so, so close to going out of business. But then, you know, over the last couple of years, that made us, like, really whipped us into shape and turned the business into a very profitable business. And instead of, like, valuing, like, growth, we valued profitability at every turn. And so it just, like, it kind of changed the course of the business, but it was just crazy having to go through that.

Yeah. And it's so crazy because I remember, like, when you were pitching me, I was like, everything in me wants to invest. But, like, I was so early in my investing career, I was like, I have to work. remember that like I'm going to be judged on like my return and like what is making good decisions. And I remember being like it's so unfair that like I had to say no strictly because you were dealt a card of like explosive growth because of COVID at home fitness. And then it's like without anybody ever knowing it's like everybody's going back to the gym. And it's like how do you prepare for that? But I think what I have just respected so much about you and Max as like a leadership

team is the way you handled that. Because it was like it was. It was. ever an option to fail or close. It was like you just had to do what you had to do, which as a girl's girl female is really hard when you're having to lay off a staff of like 27 people. What was that like for you? It was horrible. I was like friends with these people, you know, and then all of a sudden, it's like, and they don't, they didn't necessarily understand exactly why we, why. No. They didn't know what was really truly behind the curtain. Things you don't really share with employees. Like we were like three million, I think it was three million dollars in debt completely and that was like that was horrible um and did you have your son at that point i had my son

at that point actually i was pregnant with my daughter too so you were i was going through this pregnant and had to fire everyone and then basically do all of their jobs like we had to split all of those people's jobs between us and just like we had like almost like um a mantra of like good is good enough you know like it doesn't have to be perfect doesn't have to be the best like things are gonna slip through the cracks during this like era and that's okay because this is what we have to do to save the business and then now we like paid off that debt and it's just you know it's a different business now but at the time it was like very dark times and now i'm just like so it makes me honestly just so impressed with you like even more so than when you walked into my house because

i knew a lot of the story but obviously not down to like what happened after we had been talking so when you guys did your layoffs you were basically doing everything what was the turning point you guys being like we are going to write this ship and completely change the business to profitability. I mean, the turning point was like, like I wanted to, the problem is we could have like let go of people like six months earlier and not had such a like debt and things like that. But I was like my heart, I couldn't like let go of these people. I really, really cared about them. They were great at their jobs, all the, all the stuff. So it really took Max and I back and forth. Like finally he's like, we.

like we were going out of business like now if we don't do this and I had had to do it. I mean, really it was like when we we owed people, we didn't have anyone to back us. Like there's, we weren't going to make payroll. Like we literally had to do it. And there was no other option. And so I think it's just it was like it was truly back to the beginning because it was like when we started I was doing customer service and all of these things. And now we're back to that. Do you feel like your relationship with money and just like,

having gone from zero to $2 million to $20 million back to like having to do everything changed a lot in terms of being like much more frugal. Like how do you think about money today both like, well, how do you think about money today as a founder? I mean, for the business, I think of it as like what I said earlier with influencer marketing, like a return on investment because the old me when we got ourselves in that situation would be like, oh, our head of growth says we need to spend $300,000 on a new website. I would say why?

Like, why can't we spend 40 grand? Like, let's see what the options are here before we just go with what people, the experts say. Because that's what got us into trouble is like, you know, you're supposed to spend this amount of money. You mentioned, like, an influencer. It's like, maybe then somebody would be like, pay 50K for a post.

And we might have done it because someone said we should. But now I'm like, there has to be a return on everything because that's how you make a super profitable business. And we have now. And so definitely made me more frugal and also just like a look at everything across the business with an ROI. How do you think about your relationship with money personally since that experience? Personally. Oh, let's see.

That's well, probably the same. I'm like less frugal in my day to day life. I feel like. Well, you value your time now because you value my time. Yeah. That is what it is. It is value my time. So it's like I'd rather pay a.

to get time back with my kids or like if I could punch above my weight, you know, by doing something on Bala, like my time is better spent. I might make more for giving five hours dedicated time to Bala than I would doing whatever this other task is. So I think, you know, valuing your time for sure. Did you grow up like with an abundance mindset towards money or how did you grow up thinking about money? I always saved and worked really hard. Like I was like a 16-year-old that was waitressing. And I was like middle-class family had everything I needed, but I was like a 16-year-old waitressing and like saved like $10,000 on my own like in a summer or two. You know, like I always felt, I think I guess I felt like I needed to work hard and always

have something going on in that sense. But I do have an abundance mindset, at least now about money. Yeah. Well, I feel like when you, they always say that like whether it's like addiction or whatever is like when you almost like hit rock bottom, it's like you, you just are like there is no other for me. Like, I just have to think differently. When you think about, like, the world that we live in now with social media and especially being, like, the front face of the brand, I feel like there's so much pressure to spend on, like, new clothes and, like, fashion and beauty. Like, do you have a certain category that you do find yourself, like, mom stuff aside that you're investing into and, like, prioritizing where you buy things? Like, is it fashion? Is it workout classes? Like, where do you find you spend

your disposable income? Honestly, I don't even blink twice about, like, You know, not like skin care, like skin things. Like I just did this like crazy. I was going to say your skin is amazing. What did you do? Okay. It's this laser facial. Have you heard of the salmon sperm one? Yes.

Yeah. I just did that. But I'm just saying things like that. How much is that? Okay, that I bought three sessions. It was $2,400. And where did you go? But I wouldn't spend like $2,400 on a dress.

You know what I mean? For sure. So like I spend in, like, that's like an investment in myself. I went to a place called Bliss Point in Larchmont. Okay. Because you live on the east side. But this is, well, large month it's close enough to you okay yeah i'm gonna go i mean your skin's amazing no but this is like

you have a glow to you i was like is she pregnant again it's that i swear then it must be that because so you spend on skin care skincare and like wellness things especially because it's research for our brand um you know like sauna things like that like cold plet whatever i don't are you guys going into cold plunge and saunas and stuff no we're not but i just feel like everything in wellness is research for the brand truly. And so I'll, vitamins, things like that, I wouldn't bulk it. I would invest in, you know, my body and the skin. Yeah. We are doing a studio though. You are. But in New York. I thought that you guys had a studio. That was a pop-up. And did it go well? It did go well. That was in the time of spending too much money. Okay. So it went well, but we spent too much money on it. Okay.

On it. And so now we're doing it differently. How much is a buildout like that cost? Gosh, the buildout, I guess since I'm just going to be so super honest, the buildout of that, I think was like probably 300,000, but it was six-month pop-up. So if you think about, you know, and then rent is like over 20,000, and then you think about the operations and the design fees, it gets, it gets like half a million, yeah. But if you're doing a build-out for something that's staying like our studio, it's a 10-year lease, yeah. Like, that could be double.

What do you think about the exclusivity of the Allo Gym when you're thinking of, about your Bala studio? Is it going to be influencer only? Is it going to be reserved? How do you think about exclusivity versus community marketing in today's world? So we'll always have like exclusive events, you know, like going on like influencer events. But for our studio, we feel very firmly that we don't want it to be super influencer. I'm sure it will be because it'll be like beautiful and people take selfies and all of that.

But we want it to feel very like we want everyone to feel welcome. and we want it to feel like a true community, anyone can come. We don't want anyone to feel like they have to like dress up and put makeup on to go. And we've heard that feedback in all of our research that we're doing right now about other studios that like carry a lot of ball of products. Sometimes people like love the workout, but they don't really want to go because they feel like maybe they don't look cute enough or they're not like dressed up enough. And so we're really trying to make that not the thing.

And we want everyone to feel welcome like truly. So I think that was how our store was too. So hopefully we'll pull that off. And is it going to be a store and studio in one? There'll be retail at the front. You can go pick up some bangles or something, not full retail experience. And then it's really all about the studio.

Yeah. It's so interesting and some insight. And this is why I love HsR so much because I get like firsthand feedback on what people love. When Lulu Lemon opened their gym in New York, I posted being like, and I did a poll on my Instagram stories for HsR. What do you guys think will be more successful? Like Allo Gym?

Allo Yoga is exclusivity or Lulu Lemons like come for everybody. And everybody was like, oh my God, community marketing, Lulu Lemon. Like I'm so over Allo because of the exclusivity factor. And I just feel like nowadays building with your community is so important. And a lot of brands say that they do it. But then in practice, that's not where the money flows. Do you guys feel like the community is actually giving you that ROI versus influencer marketing? Yes, because they're the ones that are really,

shopping. Yeah. But I think that that's a fair point. I mean, the poppy, you know, do you see the- Yes. What do you think about that? Yeah. It's too much money to spend on influencers. But we, we don't, we wouldn't ever spend that much on influencers. We would do like a cute mail or something, of course, like, but I feel like, you know, however much it was, it was like $10,000 a vending machine or something. I feel like that is better spent for the community, you know? So like giving away like free classes for a week or whatever it is. Like, we definitely intend on doing more. community. Yeah. The thing I feel bad for with Poppy and the thing I think they were judged on

incorrectly is like let's say they're doing $300 million of revenue, which I don't know, but like let's just say they probably are. They probably are. Like they have an influencer budget that's for those like big grandiose awareness campaigns. Like exclusivity and influencer marketing works. I do think that Poppy does do a good job of community marketing as well as influencer marketing. And so I did feel a little bit bad for them that I was like they kind of do both. and they're being like torn down for something where it's like they kind of don't disregard their community they just do both but i feel like nowadays being a founder like you just can't win and do you personally get affected when you get hate towards bala yes of course how do you deal with that um especially

when i was the one responding to the emails like any hate would like cut me so deep and i would like say something snarky back get off customer service how do i deal with that i think I think I just say, you know, it's okay to not be for everyone. And that just means that you're actually making a statement. Like you're pissing someone off. Like, believe, like, we've had people pissed because, like, we put a girl in like a super fashion outfit to work out. And it's like, I don't know why you're pissed about that. Yeah. Something else bad happened in your day. But you're not for us, lady, you know, and that's okay. And we made you feel something. Yeah. And that means the people who felt they loved it, like we made them feel something. So I feel

like it's better to make people feel something. Do you feel like there's such a pressure to put like such diversity in campaigns that it's like it's hard as a small brand when you're like, well, I mean, you're lucky you don't actually make sizes of clothing where it's like you're having to do like an entire size of guide of like so many different sizes or a makeup brand that has to do like so many different skin tones. Otherwise like you're not inclusive. Do you feel that same pressure from like a creative standpoint where you're like, we have to put such diversity in our campaigns that it's like, hard sometimes as a small brand. For sure. And it's like sometimes you only have the budget for like one model.

And it's like the model, you have to pick what, you know, what ethnicity that model will be. And so, yes, I do feel like that's, that is tough. And we really do try to have like diversity. But it's, it is hard. Because then it's like maybe we did have diversity, but not body inclusivity on this one campaign. And like people, you know, reach out. And we'll hear about it on our emails. Like let's say we have like a feature, like a monthly balabaabe feature.

it could be like the sammy's would be on one you know Maggie sellers will be on one I'm sorry Maggie sellers will be on our next one and um basically balladabe feature and it's like if it's just like a hot girl like oh my gosh this is so disappointing but it's like well you have to represent all and you can't be mad about you know so it's just tough and you have to just like realize you're always going to hear something even if you think you got it right I'm so bad at that like I think I'm just so new to this that like it does really hurt me so still. It hurts. It hurts. Do you get, you get, you've said it before. Oh, yeah, I get a lot. Like, like, hot, smart rich is like, oh, that's like the worst for sure. It's actually crazy.

So my boyfriend was telling me that somebody that he's friends with literally, like, told him not to date me when we were first training to date because of the name of my company. And then his best friend actually, yeah. What came, his best friend came and like straight up to my face was like, what is this about hot smart rich at your email address? And I was like, my goal, is to be so provocative that I capture people's attention to empower women to become hot smart rich. If you do your research, you will know that I don't actually think that I'm hot smart rich. It is a way to cut through the noise of this world that we live in and do something that brings the right people in. So that doesn't bother me. The stuff that bothers me is like the stuff

that feels really personal. Like that somebody that is in my life is, actually saying something about me. Like, that's not really like a close friend, but is like somebody that like knows something and I'll like see it. And I'm just like, whoa. Like I can't believe that that has like gotten out or like is there or things that don't bother me are like the sound of my voice. People are annoyed by or the name of my company.

But it's more like the mission of what I'm doing. Like who does she think that she is? She's such a know at all. People like say that? Yeah. Isn't that crazy? On what? On like Reddit.

On Reddit. On Reddit. On Reddit. But that just means you're cool enough to be on Reddit. I mean, I know, but it's still really, like, Rachel, my PR is laughing because she's like, it's so good. You want them to say something. You want them to say something.

I know. Especially with what you're building and it is catchy and anyone who knows you, like, knows your intent. So it's like, yeah. Get rid of the noise. But it's your sudden done. I have thin skin too. I have such thin.

It's something I'm working on. And honestly, like my boyfriend sends me like a message every single day being like, don't care of people think about you, just keep doing your thing. And I think this is like the space that I crave so much. Like, growing up in the. startup world that I did, I never felt like there was women I could look up to that were honest, like you are being right now. Like it was such a facade of like luxury and perfection and like curation. And there was no understanding of like how much does it cost to put a studio together.

Like what does it look like to almost like go into bankruptcy? Like all of the things that we experience. And that's why for me it's like such a sacred thing. And I love bringing people like you on who were like here is like the good, the bad and the ugly of what is actually happening. When you come back from Matt leave, what will your role look like? It's a good question. And everyone's like, when are you coming back? Because I just get to decide what I'm coming back. But I think I'm going to just, I'm going to structure.

I was doing this before actually because I was so pregnant and I really wanted to get a lot of time in with my two-year-old daughter. Basically, I just structure my days really differently. So, like, I'll, you know, maybe, like, do some emails from eight to nine, but then I will, like, take my daughter to the park or her library class from, like, nine to 12. Like, I, you know, that's, like, crazy to take, like, a three-hour chunk right then. But then, like, she'll nap from, like, 12 to 2 or 12 to 3, and I'll, like, power through a bunch of stuff or schedule, like, a meeting then. You know, I, like, block my days around my kids so that I can be there for them. And, or when the kids go to bed, I just know, hey, I'm.

I'm going to work for like a really power through 30 minutes of emails or whatever it is. So I will structure my days to where I feel like I'm not missing out of my kid's life. And do you feel like your role at Bala is like moving more into that front facing like creator founder role where you're like creating content? I saw you just did an ad with Amazon, which I was obsessed with. Like is that the stuff that lights you up? Yeah, I do like that stuff a lot. I like working, you know, with other brands. I like, said it earlier, but giving business advice and, you know, being an advisor to other companies.

and so yes, I think that's where I would like to see my career go. I love it. Okay, well, to wrap up because we're almost at time, I wanted to do some rapid fire. I love rapid fire. Fun. Okay, if you could only pick one for the rest of your life, coffee to your cocktail.

Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette. with a flame thrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero? More like habanier, yes.

Save the everyday with Amazon. It's so hard. I have to go fast, though. Coffee. That was hard between coffee and cocktail. What's your coffee order? Oh, latte with a little bit of vanilla. Okay, good. At least you, okay, like these girls

that want to die on the hill for their coffee order and it's like a black coffee. I'm like babes. Like, you need to pick a cocktail. I don't know. Now I'm full of regret. I need cocktail. Okay.

What's your cocktail order? A spicy margarita. Okay. Or if I'm feeling crazy, a dirty martini. Okay. If you could only pick one for the rest of your life, Pilates or Strength Training. Pilates. Okay.

Air one or Joe in the juice? Air one. Is there anything else that you could pick? Like, I was trying to think of something over Airwan. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Not Joe and the Juice. Like, what about, like, I would want, Airwant or Sweet Green? That's a good one.

Air one or sweet green. Okay. What would you choose? Air one still. Nothing. There's more options. I know. Air one is so good.

Okay. This one's tricky. Or air one or sugarfish. Okay. Who would you pick then? Still air one. You're like, I got it this time. I can't eat sugarfish for the rest of my life, you know?

No. Who is your favorite comfort creator? Comfort? What's comfort? Oh, it's like a true thing. It's like a feel good like creator. Like who do you just like put on? A feel good creator?

Yeah. I like Lauren Ireland. Love her. And she's like a mom too and like a founder, so I feel like I just like it. You relate. Yeah. Who is the creator that works the best for Bala? Probably the Sammies, I would say right now.

We have this other guy. I forgot any of it. Oh, Danny Austin. Okay. Also. Okay. So very like workout people. Well, Danny Austin's more like lifestyle.

Okay. I don't know her. And she really is like high. converting, but doesn't really post a lot just when we have. But yeah, work out people. People with like a following, like a Sammy. Yeah. Has, you know, there are millions of followers.

Yeah. What affiliate platform do you guys use? We just switched to shop my. Okay, cool. What is your favorite Bala product? This is hard. Bars, the Bars, the three pound bars. Okay. What is your favorite marketing campaign that's not yours?

Or like influencer collab partnership. Oh, I love what Set Active just did for International Women's Day, and they pulled in a bunch of founders, not really direct competitors, but all kind of worked together. And we did a shoot and it was really great. Do you love to be a model? That was fun. I love it. Okay, what is your favorite way to ask for money?

From who? Anybody. Investors, like, customers, like, how do you, like, I have this thing where I do an HsR discount. So every time I'm checking out of a retail store, I'm like, can I have 15% off? And they're like, what? Look at Rachel's face. And they go, what? And I go, yeah, I would like 15% off my order.

And they say, why would I ever give you 15% off your order? And I said, I don't know. Can I get it? Do they do it? 50% of the time they do. See, I don't have like, I don't have the balls for that. You just, you know what I think it is? I just take the price given.

No, rejection therapy. We are rejected so. much in life. And the thing that built me so much resilience is when I first started my career, I did 100 cold calls a day. And I was just hung up on and told the fuck off. And now I don't give a fuck if you rejects me. I'm like your loss. I agree with that. And I actually say like that about business too. But for some reason in some areas, like I'm out of store and I'm going to ask for discount. Like I could never. But for business, I would like ask any anything. Okay. It's my favorite way to us for money. I'm thinking of who. Oh, I like a referral program.

or something. Okay, love that. Like from a partner brand, like an agency or something. Because I'm always getting asked, you know, if you needed design services. Design services. And it's like, okay, I actually have somebody really good. So it's great if I get that referral fee. For sure.

Love that. So you ask for the referral fee. I ask the brand. Yeah. So it's like, let's say I'm recommending the design. Not always, but like if it's a tech platform, like they have the budget. So it's like I'll refer you for a referral. But a lot of women don't do that.

They feel like awkward asking for that. But it's like even for me, I actually wanted to say to my landlord, like if I find you somebody to move into my apartment, I want 15% of their first month's run because I found you your tenant. You didn't need to hire a real estate agent. That's exactly what it is. And I think that's a flex your muscle thing because I might have felt she bitch the first time I did it.

But what I realize is like these people like I'm talking mostly like a tech or SaaS platform, they might send like 200 cold emails, but like I have the direct content. to the brand. And if you just asked me, I should get paid for that. Yeah. So. But women don't think like that. They're like, I'll just do it. And it's so funny being around like my boyfriend now who's just so successful in business. Like he gets paid for what he does. And he looks at me when I like, don't ask for stuff. And he's like, Maggie, like you deserve to be paid for that introduction. And I'm like, oh, I didn't know that. I literally am doing a substack article tomorrow on finance tools and um i asked every brand that i'm promoting for either like to to pay for it or give me a

percentage because i know other people are going to look to it and click and they're going to want to use some of the tools bala uses so of course make some money from it but i think that's a flex your muscle kind of yeah who is your favorite substock writer i uh oh i like emily austin don't know her no she um i actually want to read her book but i've just been seeing she's somebody i follow Who's your favorite? I'm like, I need to get. Diana, who we just saw was great too. She has like a very whimsical one.

I was actually going to say like I relate to that and I do really like it and I feel like she writes it from the heart so I like hers. Yeah. And I'm not a big substack really. Do you have Hart Smart Rich on there? I have a newsletter that's like the Bible. Yeah. I love that.

Yeah. But it's not on substack. But I think I thought that was a substack. No. You get emailed from them. Yeah. You know, so I think I probably thought that was one.

No. It doesn't need to be if you have your own. Yeah. The only thing you might be missing is it. acquiring that customer because I just launched mine and most of the people have come from subsets. So that's the one thing I actually, yeah. So you might just copy paste it there because what do you?

I did say to my sister the other day, I was like, I feel like we are missing out on that. Like if you followed me and then people are like who is like, who is Natalie following on substack? Then they would follow me automatically. So for us to acquire a customer is actually like a lot harder. Yeah. But I think that for some reason, the way that like ours is formatted is now, because I started it so long ago before everybody got substack that it's like iconic kind of and people are like

if you didn't have your mood board and like all the things on it it wouldn't be the newsletter anymore and you have your podcasting so you don't need all the media no it's no you know you need like a couple but i'm going to start following that girl that you said okay last question what is your personal mission statement oh personal mission statement let's think i have one for you like just based on your mom your mom life is like to empower women that like you can do it all and look good while doing it. Oh, I like that. Like I just feel because I do really mean what I say and I haven't actually, not that people that have been on the podcast aren't girls girls, but like you, I just feel like are so not competitive. You're so grounded and who you are.

And I think it starts with like you being a mom so early on in Bala's journey that like you just had bigger things to worry about from the day you started. But you really are a girl's girl. And you really have like, like built such a big business while being a mom and like being married and having it all. So I feel like that should be your mission statement. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. To empower women to have it all and look good doing it. To empower women to have it all and look good doing it.

I like it. Okay. Well, we just solidified Natalie Holloway's mission statement on Hotsmart Rich. I really like it. Thank you so much for coming on and being so honest. It's honestly conversations like this that I feel like will truly empower women to like build businesses they're passionate about. and just go after what they want and look good doing it.

So thank you so much. I'm so happy you came on. I'm so honored. Where can people find you? Thank you. At Natalie Holloway on Instagram or at Bala. Okay, love it. Plug the brand.

Thank you so much. And we really appreciate it, Natalie. Thank you.