Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Pia Mance: Buying The Right Outfit Made Me a Millionaire Before 30 (The Blueprint For Building Your Dream Life)

Starting point is 00:00:00 I'm not giving up my old life. The baby hopefully will just come into it. So you don't necessarily want to take a mat leave. I'll probably be offline for like 72 hours and then I'll be reachable by a slack. 10 million in revenue in your first three years. This was a fun hobby. When I did my first drop, my husband took me out.

Starting point is 00:00:15 Like, congratulations, you sold 11 necklaces. I had a lychu martini. My life totally leveled up when I started dressing better. It's an investment. It changed the brand. If you're sitting at home and you're in your tracksuits, then add an earring. Your personal perception,

Starting point is 00:00:30 is reality. Talk to me about manifesting this pregnancy. I said I need to be pregnant on my five-year wedding anniversary, but... Oh my God, I'm obsessed with you. Okay. Do you hate to say no? I love to say nah. It's really hard to break up with being a people-pleaser. I don't care if you think I'm a little bit selfish because I feel like the people-pleaser is like, I wish I was more like that. What do you think you've had to sacrifice to get there? Well, so shocked by that. How did your relationship change once you started achieving real success? How do you think someone can win in a negotiation. Are you like Haley Bieber in that you've manifested your life? In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. P.M. Ance, are you ready to get

Starting point is 00:01:22 hot, smart rich? I'm ready. I'm so happy you're here. This has been such a long time coming. For someone that's just clicked into this conversation, they might know you, they might not, what are they going to learn today? I think they're going to learn how I started my business on my bedroom floor and all the scrappy ways I've done things with no business plan and with no real plan at all. So I think that's what they're going to learn. I also feel like they're going to see two friends interact. We have been friends for almost three years. I actually looked at my DMs this morning for the first DM we exchanged.

Starting point is 00:01:51 We became friends really quick. Like we met for a coffee is the first time we met and we were like, you were telling me stuff that you're like, by the way, I've never told anyone this first time. And I was like, okay, so I'll tell you this. Like we were besties day one. I'm so interested, obviously, as you've evolved, now you are a CEO of like a very large company and you're doing a lot in taste making and influencing and also thought leadership. How have your friendships evolved as you've gone from like being with your husband and modeling and doing some content creation to now also having to think about running a business in people's livelihoods? I'm still friends with all my school friends. I still have them all.

Starting point is 00:02:28 We just don't talk all the time because we're also busy and I'm on a different time zone to everyone. but I left Australia when I was 20 years old. So I'm now just term 30, so 10 years ago. So of course, I'm still in touch with them and I really pride myself on that. Like, I don't go through friends quickly. But now my friends are so different. Like, I don't go to dinners. I don't do a ton of stuff. I say no to things because I don't want to sit with some people and it's so rude. But at the same time, I only want to hang out with people if I'm going to have a great conversation, whether that's about anything. It can be anything. And I want them to be passionate about it. So whether it's like, they're so obsessed with makeup and they're going to teach me something and they're going to really love it or they're going to talk about business.

Starting point is 00:03:06 Like we just have the best conversations which always go like business, investing, makeup, boys, business. You know, it's like so very. Or I want to sit with someone and hang out with someone who's really fun that I can either like dance with or I'm like laughing with. But I don't want to sit with these people who leave me feeling energetically drained and are kind of boring. And I've noticed about myself, I can be exhausted and then walk into a room and I'm like, There's nothing I want to do except go home. I go to an event or a dinner or whatever and I sit next to the right person and I'm like, literally I'm high on life. And I could then go all night because I've had the best conversations and they've charged me. But if they're boring, can't do it. I'm so curious on your take because I think you're more in like both the female founder space and the influencer space. You get invited to a lot of influencer events. You get invited to a lot of female founder events. I don't get invited to influencer events. I definitely get invited to founder events. How would you describe the difference between. when you walk into an influencer event and when you walk into a female founder event.

Starting point is 00:04:04 I am super intentional now. I barely go to an influencer event. I'll go if it's a brand founder that I'm friends with or as bad as this sounds. Like there's something in it for me. I need to, okay, I want to meet the founder because I want Heaven Mayhem and them to do a collab or, you know, something. I'm not going to go to a big event with a ton of influences because I don't want to be an influencer. A couple years ago, I was at an event and a lady from their PR team was like, this is, this is, this. person, she's a stylist, this is this person she's in PR, and this is Pierre, she's an influencer.

Starting point is 00:04:35 And I was like, like, my jaw was dropped. I'm like, the fuck. Like, that's who you think I fucking am. That's it. Anyway, she emailed me the next day and she said, hey, I just wanted to say, I'm so sorry that I misspoke last night and introduced you incorrectly. So I feel like I was like, it's not that deep, but nice step in the right direction. I'm really trying to curate the personal brand like I am a founder first before an influencer, so I'm really intentional of those rooms that I go in. that's so interesting. And I feel like a lot of influencers in the past have actually like hired PR and hired teams to help them like be positioned as founders. And they've done an amazing job at that. I had no idea that's how you think about things. Because it's so true. Like your personal perception is reality. But you said something where you're like, I don't care if this makes me sound bad. And I'm like, it's the truth though. Like that is genuinely how you have to think about decisions. What's the last really hard decision that you had to make that was like borderline like, maybe I'll do this and maybe I will because it'll make me look a certain way. In New York Fashion Week, there's always so many dinners and so many of my friends host these

Starting point is 00:05:36 dinners and I'm always like, do I go? Like, I don't want to be boxed into an influencer event. And also especially during the last New York Fashion Week, I'm like four and a bit months pregnant. I'm so tired. I need to pick and choose and I'm doing so much in the day. But I think those decisions are hard when you're like, I want to show up for my friend, but I just don't want to be boxed into this. Not that there's anything wrong with being an influencer, but I'm not making any money doing

Starting point is 00:05:57 that. So an influencer needs to go to this event to then make money with the brand. And that's what's in it for them to meet the brand founder and like continue that relationship. For me, it's like I'm literally just there to be there, support the brand out of the love of my heart because I'm not making any money. That's why I'm like, I need to get something out of it. Unless it's my friend, then I'll be there. When I host the first AHSR event, you're going to be there. Of course.

Starting point is 00:06:19 Of course. I feel like you are someone who's constantly talked about that's been able to put together like a personal aesthetic. and a personal brand that's really strong and really consistent across anything that you do. How much thinking goes into that of like, I want to look a certain way or have a certain aesthetic because it's important in the female founder space or for your business. I mean, a lot of thought goes into it, but also none at all. Like this aesthetic, I guess, is so innately me that it's just so easy. So like, I don't know, even podcast interviews or anything,

Starting point is 00:06:57 people like, do you want to prepare? No, I don't need to because I know my business back to front. Like, it's me. Like, if I ask you a question about you, you know. Same as the aesthetic. It's just so innately me. But I am intentional of, I don't know, some specific things I post or, for example, the team, if they're creating content, like, it has to be at this specific caliber of content. And like, when too many people copy what we're doing or replicate our kind of post, then we have to change. So I obviously think about it a lot, but I'm not like trolling Pinterest trying to find the perfect reference so I can replicate that because I already know. who I am. Can we talk a little bit because people always ask me this question and I feel like I've posted some breakdown videos about like how the styling industry works. And like I feel like I first started seeing Georgina through you. How did you meet your stylist and how does the styling industry actually work? Okay. I met Georgina. She's Australian. She lived in London. We were with the same agency and I knew who she was so I followed her and I like saved a lot of her content for outfit inspo. and then I was in London and I was like, this is the way my life works and I'm sure you're going to get to manifesting. But I'm like, I need a rebrand.

Starting point is 00:08:01 I need a rebrand. So I was this blonde pier? This wasn't Blompier, but it was like brunette with a bit of blonde in it. Okay. And I was like, you know what? I need a rebrand and I want to work with Georgina. So I reached out to her and I sent her a voice note on Instagram and I was like, hey, I'm in London. I want to do this like tiny little press shoot.

Starting point is 00:08:20 I'm going to get my makeup done. My friend's going to shoot it. do you want to style it for free? Just for the day, it's like two looks. Just pull from your closet because I knew she had great stuff. And I almost wanted to test her. And we can get into it later, but that's what I do with all my employees as well. I wanted to test her to see if we liked working together. And she was great. She came with everything organized. Everything was amazing. I loved what she put me in. She test my boundaries. It was great working with her. She pinned everything. She was amazing. By the end of the shoot, I'd booked her for a Heaven Mayhem shoot one week later.

Starting point is 00:08:51 and halfway through that shoot I said, are you free in November? Can I fly you to L.A.? And we're going to redo my whole life. We're doing my rebrand. You're doing my rebrand. And so that's how I met her. And that's what we did. It worked perfectly because she is so talented, but I feel like we just met at the right time. Like she, I needed her just as much as almost she needed me. Like we perfectly matched and it was like, bang, we can just go crazy now. And I think she really pushes me out of my comfort zone. But equally, I allow her to. I'm not pushing back. I'm like, oh, You can have fun with this, you know, do what you want to do. So we did a first fitting.

Starting point is 00:09:24 She shopped for me. She brought it all over in racks. I tried it all on. We put together looks. I told her my budget. We ended up going three times over the budget. The outfits was so good. And then now we just work together on like a daily, weekly basis.

Starting point is 00:09:37 She'll do a fitting for a trip and I'll get 20 looks or 10 looks or whatever. And then I'll mix and match in my wardrobe. And now since her styling me and we do the wardrobe, I just dress so much better. I have better pieces. So like I can get myself dressed to go do something. something because she's taught me how to dress, if that makes sense. Totally. So for someone that's just listening to this for the first time, like, you basically pay a stylist to put looks together for you. Yes. And then you get to keep those looks sometimes, and sometimes you don't.

Starting point is 00:10:04 So for the first ones, we've done wardrobe refreshes where I buy everything. So she will buy it all and then or even consign and she'll bring it all to my house and I'll choose all the stuff I want and maybe we'll return 10% of it just to like, you know, whatever, revolve. It's the same as you buy three dresses and return to. And then I pay for it. at all and I keep it. And I think that is really important to me because I don't want to go to fashion week and wear all these amazing looks and then come home and be in trash. Like I love my clothes so much. Like I actually really love getting dressed. I love accessorizing. Obviously it's why I do what I do. But I keep these and then for some holidays or some important events, she gets loans and

Starting point is 00:10:42 then I give them back, which works really well if I'm like, I don't need to invest in a huge budget for this event. But like if she can pull me a cool dress, then it's a vibe. You fundamentally believe that having great style and dressing well improves your chance of success. Oh, my God. Yes, my life totally leveled up when I started dressing better in a couple of different ways. One, I think people noticed and people came to me and were like, oh, more opportunities. Look at her, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But also internally, I'm like, look at me. Like, literally look at me.

Starting point is 00:11:14 Like, I want to take a photo in my outfit. I want to shoot content. I want to be in TikToks. I feel so good. I get dressed every day. I don't know about you, but I go to the office every day, Thursdays we work from home. Never in my life would I be in my pajamas ever. I don't even own a track suit. Like I own one. I own one pair of tracksuits, which is a recent pregnancy thing because I think it looks cool with a sports bra. That's it. I would never wear gym clothes all day. And I think that like sets me in this tone for the day.

Starting point is 00:11:40 So I think it goes both ways. Yeah, people notice, but it's also internally like dressing better sets you up for success. Well, it's just interesting even the timelines of stuff, right? Because like your business, started taking off, like, as you're doing this rebrand. And I fundamentally think it's something that people don't want to talk about, but actually does make a huge difference. And it's funny because even in my business, like, once I realized it could be a business and a media company in addition to the investing and doing the SPVs, which we've talked so much about, like, I remember saying to my sister, like, once a quarter, we can take a huge bet. And like, it can be a large expense where maybe it's like $5,000, $10,000, $15,000. And maybe it's like,

Starting point is 00:12:16 let's say an example would be hiring a publicist. And I remember saying to my sister, like it is hiring a stylist because I don't actually know how to dress myself. And you and I have gone into your closet. You've like tried to help me like they get an outfit together. And I fundamentally believe that that was a bet that was so worth taking because it actually made me to your point feel more confident. So for the total that are listening that are like, okay, I'm now sold. Like I want to feel better. I want to be able to start posting, create a personal brand. What do you think are the most important elements to putting a chic look together today? I feel guilty that I have to plug my own brand, but I will say that adding any accessory

Starting point is 00:12:56 instantly makes you ready for the day. So if you're sitting at home and you're in your track suits and then you get dressed, but you then add an earring, you're ready. Like would you sit on the couch with these big earrings on? Probably not. But when you're leaving the house and you're ready for the day, you add an accessory. So I think I always start with an accessory. I think putting a look together just depends on your body type and like what you're going for, but still to neutrals, stick to basics, good quality, investing good quality, like a good pair of shoes, a good pair of jeans, a good blazer, add the accessories, and then like have some fun. Go on Pinterest, follow stylists like Georgina. I mean, when we do like our posts together, they get so many saves

Starting point is 00:13:35 for inspo and it's like that's the best way to do it. Also troll people's shopmise. That's where I would start. With style, if someone's listening to this and they're like, I am actually now convinced I need to go and invest in my style. Can they use AI for that? I don't know. I love AI and I want to implement it in every single way to my business and I'm sure there's a million things we can talk about offline. But when it comes to content and creativity, I'm not 100% sure. Like Pinterest has an AI algorithm. When you start saving things, it will populate more things that you like. So I'm sure you can use AI in a way. But I think there's something really unique about yourself and like choosing your own things. That's what I

Starting point is 00:14:15 also think about content is I think in the next maybe three to six to 12 months, we're going to see a ton of AI content and it's going to be really cool and look really realistic and be like super high production. And for example, I'm planning our holiday campaign and I want this house or snow globe to move on the website and I'll do it with AI. But I think people are going to revert back to loving a lofi iPhone moment because they know that that's not fake and they want to see like the real raw content. So I think some things I'm like no AI because I think the trend's going to like quickly dip. So let's talk a little bit about having mayhem. Let's do it. So you started having mayhem with $900. Did you ever think that it would turn into what I did today?

Starting point is 00:14:57 Never in my life. You know, I was sitting on my bedroom floor like cutting the cords of my pendants and putting them together and packing every order. Like this was a fun hobby. I remember when I did my first drop, my husband took me out for dinner and was like, congratulations. You sold 11 necklaces. He's like, this is amazing. And I had a licey martini. And I was like, yeah, like, I was so proud of this small tiny thing. And now I'm like, whoa, that escalated quickly. Really quickly. Like you went from $50,000 to $2.5 million to $10 million in revenue in your first three years. If you had to distill down the growth in scale, what would come first, second, and third in helping you achieve that fast growth? I think first is my work ethic and my execution. So I love to execute. I love to be efficient. I love to work.

Starting point is 00:15:45 and I don't need to work like so hard. And I say this all the time, but it doesn't need to be friggin perfect. It will be perfect one day, but like, let's just get it out. Let's just do it. So I think because I'm really quick and I like to do that, that's the number one. And then second, everyone asked me all the time, like, what was the one thing that changed the brand? There's not one thing. But second and third is tied between gifting influences, having it pick up at the right time right before Coachella, having people who I had been going to their events because I just moved to L.A. was trying to make friends and people like Mary. Mariana Hewitt link and tag.

Starting point is 00:16:17 Or then Haley Beaver Ward, then we got on Revolved, then I picked up a bunch of press, then all these things big and small all accumulated into what it is today. Not one thing was like, damn, that's my silver bullet. But I think the number one thing is like the hard work and the execution. Who sells the most heaven mayhem other than you? There's this girl on Shopmai called Tibble. Her handle is things I bought and liked. She's never shown her face.

Starting point is 00:16:46 She sells like crazy. I remember I was in Mexico. And at the time, I think we were doing like 4K a day-ish. And I was sitting on the beach with my friends and husband at Nobu. And I'm like, we're on 28,000. It's 11 a.m. We got to like 38,000 for the day because she had posted a reel in our mini not mixed, the mixed color.

Starting point is 00:17:08 She goes crazy. She's never posted her face. She's never said her real name. Maybe she said her name, but not her full name. That's it. She just posts like random clips. Very unesthetic. I don't know why.

Starting point is 00:17:18 She goes crazy. And how does she even do a reel when her face isn't even in it? Of the earrings in her hand. That's it. Literally of the earrings in her hand from a box that I packed myself. Because it was the boxes that we were ordering to my house. She opens the box. Then she puts them in her hand.

Starting point is 00:17:35 And then I can't remember the caption. But it went crazy. And she's still our best converter on Shopmai. So have you reached out to her and been like, hey, I want to meet you? So here's the thing. Yes, I've reached out to her. Yes, we are like, here's more, here's more. Can I pay you? Like, it's, I would pay her whatever because I can see the ROI. She doesn't accept paid deals. So that's the point and purpose of her account is that it's literally things I bought and liked. And so she doesn't do anything paid because she's like so genuine and she's built this cult following of people who believe her because she doesn't sell out and do any paid partnerships because she literally bought them and likes them and shed them. How crazy. But she does make money from obviously shopmai. She makes a ton of money on affiliate, but she still has to buy the the thing. That is insane. Yeah. And even if I was like, hey, I'll give you 80% commission, I'll do whatever. Like, she's not a sellout. And that's kind of the point of like building a loyal audience is like,

Starting point is 00:18:30 you can't be a sellout because then the people aren't going to believe you or listen to anything you say. Well, I feel like you've done actually a really good job of doing both the high followed influencers and celebrities, like who you just mentioned. And then also really bringing your community into everything that you're doing, which it's really hard to build a luxury community brand. How do you feel like you've been able to do that so successfully? I think we have been able to get the right connections with celebrity and stylists pulling, so it's been really nice to get those placements, which honestly sometimes never even convert, but it makes us look good and then gets us press, which puts us in this kind of higher caliber.

Starting point is 00:19:05 And then with gifting, we think about like UGC and smaller creators and stuff. And then we also think about the community because at the end of the day, they're the ones buying the product. They're the ones buying the product and liking all the posts and knowing the product names and being so invested. So we do want to invest in them as well. And I think it's kind of a chic brand. So our community is naturally chic. So it's kind of a high quality content and community. Well, I even remember coming to the influencer or sorry, it's a community event, but I literally thought it was an influencer event. At the Cara. At the Cara, when I walked in, I thought, wow, all of these girls are so incredibly chic. I've never seen them before. What's their

Starting point is 00:19:40 handle and they all just said we're part of the community and I was so shocked by that but half of them were influencers and half a community because that's the other thing I'm not going to like segregate my two people and like oh you guys ask community over here you can't mix with my BAPs like of course not we're all in it together like we're literally all girls and you know what I think so cool is I go to these influencer events if I go and I'm like oh I've seen you before a hundred times what should we talk about you go into Coachella I got well well I would be talking about the community. It's like, what do you do? Oh, you work in marketing? Oh, what brand? Oh, I have met the coolest girls and they have conversations with the influences and then they might look up to an influencer. The influencer might be like, oh, I'm looking for a videographer. I'm looking for someone to help me here. So it's actually like beneficial on both sides and that's why I like to do them. So it's obviously influencer marketing. Then you've done a really good job with brand collaboration. So brand to brand. How do you decide who's worthy of a brand collaboration with a brand like heaven mayhem?

Starting point is 00:20:40 I feel like I'm so picky now. And we get pitched a lot. I pitched you last week. I said yes. I said yes to that. But I think for us, it has to bring us something. Obviously, either it needs to bring us like insane sales and reaching your audience. So for example, maybe like Target wouldn't be so chic, but maybe that would open us up to like this insane audience that we have no, we can't tap into yet.

Starting point is 00:21:05 So maybe I would do that. Or someone really cool like. like an amazing niche celebrity I would do because they're super cool and upcoming and like aligns us in the right way. Or the product needs to be like innovative and it needs to be like, holy shit, that's fucking amazing. Why didn't I think of that? Like, how cool is that? I don't want to do collabs that are just like meh. I want them to like make people feel something.

Starting point is 00:21:33 What's your favorite collab you've done? We collabed with an LA brand called Real Fine Studio. and we did, they are known for their really high quality diamonds and their diamond pieces. And then we did a lab version with Heaven Mayhem. And that was really fun because we're both Australian founders. It was fun to bring the jewelry worlds together. It was fun because we could technically be competitors, but we're not competitors and we're so helpful to each other.

Starting point is 00:21:57 So that was really fun. And then off the back of that and the success, now we have our own lab jewelry collection as well. But like no bad blood or anything, but that was really fun collab. I'll tell you a collab that. I thought was really fun was our Freya collab because we have such a similar audience. And so for us, we were like, this is great because we're bringing our communities together. They're so similar.

Starting point is 00:22:17 We would walk around New York doing the content and we would literally see girls with a Freya bag and Heather Mayhem earrings. And we were like, this couldn't be more perfect. Like, people are going to die. And they did. But the problem with that collab was we did an existing product in different prints and color ways to make it more heaven because we have our laptop cases, our belts. And everyone already had the product.

Starting point is 00:22:35 So I think that was a really big learning from that collab is that the product needs to be like really innovative and really different and like make people from both sides excited to buy. That's so interesting. I never even thought about it that way. What is the most viral product and or moment you've ever had at Heaven Mayhem? I think our bookboxes, obviously when Haley Bieber wore our earrings, they did really well. And even to this day, I'll see TikToks like, Miss Haley influenced me. Our book boxes went so viral. I didn't have a campaign. My friend was checking out a sunset tower. I was working out with you that day when you were like, Brianie, please come and use your hotel room. Yes. So she was checking out at like maybe 10 a.m. And then she has the room to 12. So she's like, I'll leave the key at the desk for you can just come in. And I took my three book boxes and I went with my tripod and I put it around the room and took my iPhone photos and took my film photos. And then I just did one reel on the bed. And it was like opening the book boxes to jewelry. And it was messy. But it was.

Starting point is 00:23:34 very UGC and that video got like a couple of million views sold out, sold out, sold out. And so that I think is our most viral product because it's kind of innovative and cool. That's what I'm trying to do without products is like, oh, you didn't think of that, right? Like why would a jewelry brand known for earrings? We only really had earrings then make a book that looks like a book but is a box to hold jewelry. Kind of crazy. So I like to do products like that. Is that what you would say is your road phone case moment?

Starting point is 00:24:02 Yes. Someone said that to me when I launched. They said, oh, my God, I said, this is just as good as the bird phone case. And I was like, wow. Thank you. Can we take a moment to talk about the least glamorous but most important part of building a business? Your systems. I see so many founders and CEOs in my ecosystem who are building incredible businesses,

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Starting point is 00:24:58 No credit card or payment needed. A hundred thousand companies are already using it, so why not join them? That's pipe drive.com slash hsr. So now you've done all these categories, and you're right. Like I think at first you're known for earrings, you're known for jewelry, and then you start expanding into all these other categories. So book boxes, belts, sunglasses, like I'm obsessed with your card holder. What's been the hardest category to crack and what's been the one that just like brings

Starting point is 00:25:28 in the most amount of revenue. The earrings bring in the most amount of revenue still. The hardest one, I guess, to crack is that everyone who comes into heaven mayhem is coming in as like a heaven mayhem girl. So they're coming in for the earrings or the sunglasses and they're aware of everything else. Even the book boxes, they're aware. They open it and it's jewelry and they're aware that there's jewelry. Laptop cases for us are also a really viral product and have not brought in any customers from that. So like everyone who buys a laptop case, probably 2% of customers go on to buy something else ever. So I guess that's one's a quote unquote hard to crack because where like, how the friggin' freak do we get this cohort to come shop other things? And trust me,

Starting point is 00:26:03 we've tried everything. Like, we do whole shoot styling your laptop case with earrings and everything else, like office essentials, this, this, and they just don't cross over to anything else. So that's a hard one to crack. Who's your thought partner with big decisions like that at the business now? Like when you're really trying to think through, because you've obviously expanded your team, who do you go to for decisions like that? It's either the brand manager or the VP of ops, but I usually just ask the whole team. We do in all hands every Monday and I would usually be like, guys, what are we going to do about this? Like, what are we going to do? Come back with ideas next week. Like, think about it. I'll talk to the influence ago. Like everyone kind of let's talk about how we can

Starting point is 00:26:41 fix this together. I like to bring them all in on the decisions because it's definitely not just me there. How do you hire the best people to work at having me ham? It's hard, but I think I've done a good job. It's a long process. Do you hire slow? Yeah. Hire so slow. So it's a first round interview, it's a second round interview, it's a test project. Test project, sometimes we pay for, sometimes we don't kind of depends on the role. But it would be usually three questions and then it would mention like you will be judged or evaluated on the presentation of the deck as well. So someone might send me the most insane operations deck and it's like all these excels

Starting point is 00:27:19 and like they totally showed that they have the brain. But then like the other girl put it on a really nice deck with logos and images. is from social and TikTok and whatever. And I'm like, okay, they care. They like the brand. I don't want to hire any like full on so-so fans and like obsessed with everything we do, but I do want them to care about the brand and like want to work there. Then we do an in-person interview where they talk about their project.

Starting point is 00:27:41 And I want to like make sure I actually encourage the use of AI. I love it. But I want to make sure that they can talk to it. I don't want to see like loads of m-dashes and them not really know. I need to know exactly what they meant. I'll be like to do you use AI and I like to see people's responses. And then depending on the role for social roles, we do a trial day. And then we have them in office.

Starting point is 00:28:05 And then from there, it's like, let's make sure that they have a good vibe with the team. Let's make sure they take good content. Let's make sure they're not scared. Like, if they have to come up to me 10 times a day to take little TikTok clips, I don't want someone who's too nervous. I need someone who's like, no, you said you had 10 minutes. I need 10 minutes. You want me to do this video or not, you know?

Starting point is 00:28:23 I want someone confident. and then we usually throw like a tiny task like, oh, make sure that you clean up the content that you were working on or like make sure you keep the products orderly. And just like tiny things that were like, we mentioned at the start of the day and they forgot. So like, do they not have attention to detail? Because it's hard. When you're in a small office, an open plan office like ours, it's really noticeable who's not a team player. So we've got to get them from the beginning.

Starting point is 00:28:47 How do you recommend someone listening to this stands out when they are interviewing or are doing a trial day, at a role, at a company that they really want. They're nervous and they need to channel that to more excitement. I think knowing about the brand bringing some ideas with you or some props. Like if you're coming for content and they're like, oh, I brought some props by the way, bring a bunch of magazines or this and their cameras. Like they come prepared versus someone who forgets their laptop is like a nine day difference. I think they really need to try little moments like that to stand out and show how they're committed they are to the role, at least in our team. We had this girl gift us a couch.

Starting point is 00:29:21 This is like kind of unrelated, but she wanted to gift us a couch for our office and we do some content and stuff. And she wanted to drop the swatches off to the office so we could choose. And she came in and she brought us all cookies from Levane. Is it Levine or Levine? Yeah, I know you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, they've got a gluten-free one and it's really good.

Starting point is 00:29:40 Do they? She didn't know it was gluten-free. But she brings this thing and these cookies aren't cheap. And I said to her like, how old are you? And she was like, I'm 21. And I was like, you keep doing that because I was like, you don't have to pay for cookies every time, but I will never forget you. Like, we will post the fuck out of your couch now. And that really made a difference. Not that we need these gifts, but I was like, you cared enough to stop by. You're already giving us this free couch, but you cared enough to stop by and pick up some cookies so that we have a great time in the office so that we remember you. So I feel like people that do things like that really stand out to me. No, it's what we call it, flight story, the 1%. It's like the 1% of thing that you can do to make someone's experience better. Like people don't think of.

Starting point is 00:30:19 about how important they actually are, but it's a make or break to getting a job or to being thought of so differently, especially in the world of content and how much there is. There's so many options for people to choose from. So what can you do? That's like 1% going to make you stand out. Obviously, you've done an incredible job building a multimillion dollar brand in three years. What do you think you've had to sacrifice to get there? Probably a few friends and relationships.

Starting point is 00:30:43 Not my husband, though. I haven't sacrificed him. But I think nothing that I have sacrificed hasn't been worth it. Like I love going to the office every day. It's fun. To me, it's fun. Sometimes I turn around to the girls. I'm like, see, imagine if we worked from home.

Starting point is 00:30:59 We couldn't have this kind of fun. Like, I love it. And to me, I'm like, it's not really a sacrifice. It's like, it's an honor. Did you always want to be a founder? Hard question, because I would look when I was modeling and when I was like growing up with my husband's family and listening to them, I would always listen and be like, I want to do it different or like I would do this. So maybe, yeah, but I never actually put that into words and figured out that was my path.

Starting point is 00:31:24 But now that I'm in it, I'm like, God, I'm meant for this. I really am. You are really meant for it. What do you think was the turning point, though, that told you I'm going to do this? I just wanted to do something for myself. I have a really strong work ethic. I mentioned it before, but I didn't know how to apply it. So I was like, you know, getting stuff organized when we moved to the U.S., a lot of admin.

Starting point is 00:31:45 getting a house, a lot of admin, ordering a couch, admin. I'm up till 10 p.m. Okay, so if this arrives this day, I'm going to mock it up on the camber how it's going to look, all this irrelevant stuff that like the energy needed to go somewhere. So I think then I'm like, I need to do something. It's going to be this brand. And yeah, just took up. Do you think that's because you saw a white space or it's just because of who you are? I did not see a white space. And I think it's so interesting because there's a billion brands out there in every category and like I want to start 10 million more. And I don't think you need to see a white space or a gap in the market. But I think at the time that one product that I did have was actually kind of a gap in the market because I wanted

Starting point is 00:32:25 this one pendant necklace that I couldn't really find. But that's not part of my story. I think people who create amazing supplement brands or create a brand to solve a problem is a gap in the market. But for me, I'm like, no, it was just a small, quick thing. I think the problem we're solving is that we are providing chic accessories for the modern girl and we're bringing them along the ride. So I think it's not really a problem, but there was no gap in the market. We just decided to do it. Well, I decided to do it. I think that so many people will love to hear that because you often hear the complete

Starting point is 00:32:53 opposite advice. Yeah. It's like, find a white space. Find a purpose. Yes. Yeah. Find your why. Like, my why is that I don't want to be staying up till 10 organizing the couch.

Starting point is 00:33:03 I want to do something for me and like make these decisions and curate this thing. That was my why. How did your husband take that when you went from? from being at basically organizing your family life and channeling all of your creativity, all of your work ethic into obviously providing for you and him. How did he respond to you now wanting to go and do something outside of the house? I mean, my husband is like my biggest supporter.

Starting point is 00:33:27 We've been together since we were so young. He's my biggest supporter, but like he keeps it real. He's obsessed with me and he tells me every day, I love you so much, I'm obsessed with you, but like he doesn't treat me like a princess. I'm not on a pedestal. like he'll tell me to get the fuck over it. He'll tell me like he'll bring me down to earth.

Starting point is 00:33:43 So I think it's the perfect balance of like I'll say to him, oh my gosh, look what I did. And he'll be like, you should have done that yesterday. Or like you should, yeah, so now go do it 10 more times or whatever. Like he is my biggest supporter, but he's not like, you're amazing princess. And you can do no wrong. Like he's always kind of pushing me subtly to do better all the time. And I think I do it to him too. And that's why we're like always continuing to level up.

Starting point is 00:34:08 Are you guys competitive with each other as two entrepreneurs in the fashion space? He's not competitive with me, but I'm competitive with him. But I would never tell him, but he knows. He's going to watch the podcast. Yeah. And like, oh, he's kind of competitive. Like, he'll be, he was on my Shopify for a bit when I had five users. And then I had to kick him off because I hired another employee.

Starting point is 00:34:28 And he's like, every day he's like, just add me back. Just add me back. Or like, sometimes he'll go up to the girls in the office. Like, we had a sample sale. And he's like, what do you want for the day? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, attending to the sample. sale and he went and asked one of the girls or I asked her, I said, can you check? And she said to me,

Starting point is 00:34:42 as soon as I pulled up Shopify, he was like at my desk. So we're not competitive, but like he's keen to know and then sometimes I'm competitive with him. How did your relationship dynamic change once you started achieving real success? It never really changed because it's almost so slowly and it's not like it happened one day and I'm like, I'm a billionaire and I'm famous. And he's like, who are you? We're just so normal and we're so the same people. And we're so the same people. that like nothing's ever changed, probably the only thing that's changed is like, I'll be like, I really want to go here. I'll pay for it. And I'm like, time for you to pay for a holiday. And he's like, I've been paying for you your whole life. So you can pay for me for a while. I actually love that.

Starting point is 00:35:21 How do you guys talk about money, deal with money? Do you have family meetings? Is it on the fly? Do you talk about money? Like, how do you guys deal with that as a couple? We do talk about money. We tell each other, let's do a meeting. Let's do a meeting. We hardly do it. We go on a lot of walks. And that's when we aren't distracted with work, so we'll talk about it or, like, in bed or over dinner or something. But we do talk about money. We're like both invest and we, it's very shared and very open. And it's not like, like, for example, me saying like, oh, I paid for that. I couldn't care less. Like my birthday trip, for example, I booked that and paid for it months ago. And some of my friends were like, wait, you paid for that? What do you mean? Like, what do you mean? We're married.

Starting point is 00:36:03 He's my love of my life partner in life. We don't have my money versus his money. It's just. Just like, whoever wants something whose credit card can get out first. It's the same thing. So I think we're very open. And yeah. I think that's such a good way to be. And I think it also shows it's like you have a real foundation because I've had other people on the show even where they were the stay at home mom.

Starting point is 00:36:24 They went into the workforce. And like their relationship either fell apart because of that or it actually, there's actually Amy Liu from Tower 28 who her husband now works at the company. And it's like the company that she started. right? And I think that's why I think it's so important to talk about stuff like that because it's not the same era that we grew up with with our parents. Like, I never want to be in a dynamic where I don't have the option to buy myself something or leave a room if I'm no longer respected. And I think it's really interesting for you having not worked while you were married to Cody and then go and build this like incredible brand,

Starting point is 00:37:00 how that relationship stays through all the seasons. Yeah. Because it's very rare for that relationship. to almost become closer than to drift apart. Yeah. What's like one secret rule of having a strong, healthy marriage with Cody now that you have so much going on? We, I feel like I've heard this on a podcast, but I think you said it. I think you said it. Cuddle in bed like every morning. Is that what you said?

Starting point is 00:37:25 We do it every day. Yes. Let me go back to the money thing for one second. I will say that I can buy whatever I want. He would never be like, why'd you spend that? He doesn't even know. He wouldn't ask. Like, it's all good.

Starting point is 00:37:35 We can both spend however much. we want. Maybe if, like, he wanted to buy a crazy car, I'm like, do you really need that? But, like, not my business. But let me tell you, when I first started Hever Mayhem, the whole reason that I say I started it with $900 is because I set up a direct debit from his card to mine because I didn't want, hey, can I have your credit card for this? But I didn't have any money. I was doing some influencing, but I wasn't getting paid very often. We just bought this house. I didn't have any cash coming in. So I set direct debit, his account to my account. Every two weeks, I get my money. $900. With my $900, I can do whatever the fuck I want, get my nails, buy the groceries,

Starting point is 00:38:11 see a friend, whatever. I saved one of my two weeks of $900 to start my brand. And that is why I'm like, it was $900 because that is like all I had at the time. Obviously not to my name. We had all these nice things. But like in cash, that's how much I saved. So I have come from a position of being like, can I have this? But also I'm transferring myself. But at the time, Maggie, I'm like to him, can I have your phone because I want to set this direct debit? up because I'm not getting paid very often and I want to have this money and I don't want you to know what I spend and he's like, there you go. There's my face ID for my net banking or my, you know, he's not like, but why? Like it's very open and trusting. Do you share with him

Starting point is 00:38:53 anything about your finances now though, like your credit card bills and stuff like that or now? I don't. Look, we have very different spending habits. I think if he saw how much I spent on clothes, he'd be like, was this necessary? Like he's probably bought two things in the past year. But like then again, he drives way nicer car than me and that's what he values. So no, he doesn't, he would never look at my credit card same. But like, he knows how much money we spend in the business. I tell him all the time, hey, I've spent this much. She's like, oh, your expenses are way too high or like, fuck, you're doing amazing. So it just depends. But I would definitely keep some things to myself. I would never hide it from him. If he asked, like, he'd be like,

Starting point is 00:39:28 oh, so you have a new Kelly. I say, yes, he knows. But you know what I mean? I'm so impressed with how creative you are on a consistent basis. How do you find creative inspiration so frequently? I sometimes people say like, what's your superpower? I think it's ideas. I could think of a billion things and like, of course, some of them are terrible. But I've just inspired by so many different things. I'll see a, like a tile.

Starting point is 00:39:55 And I'm like, that's an earring. I'll see an old grandma with a pair of sunglasses. And I'm like, oh, we should do a shape like that. We don't have that. Or she's got like blue nail polish. like maybe we could do a blue frame or something. It just really depends on my mindset. I think you can find inspiration anywhere you're looking for it.

Starting point is 00:40:10 But you need to like almost train your brain to see random things. The other day I'm walking my dog around the block at the office and I came in with this gum leaf. It's like a long stick with a little like drop. I'm like, girls, earring. I've got a new earring. No one touched this. It's not trash. It's staying on my desk.

Starting point is 00:40:25 This is a sample. Like you can just find inspiration anywhere. I need to be more aware in my life. But I feel like. sometimes when you're consuming so much content, you get your own ideas kind of leave you because you're in that consumption mode. I feel like you actually do consume content of other people. Like you watch my stories. Yes, I look at my story sometimes. You're commenting on my TikToks being supportive and vice versa. So how do you find that balance of how much you're consuming

Starting point is 00:40:56 versus how much you're creating? I love consuming and I screenshot everything that I'm inspired by and then I go to my screenshots album as like my saved Pinterest because there's like maybe 6,000 photos in there, but 20,000 elsewhere. So if I like something, I screenshot it, put it in there and keep it. But I love consuming and then it gets to a point where you're like, where else can I look. But that is like a really bad trap is at the beginning. I was designing from like, oh, I love this Pinterest reference. I love this. I love this. And then I'm like, holy shit, this other brand saw the same references me. Like this has happened so many times from even just. like a quick graphic to a actual product where I'm like, we have the same reference. And like,

Starting point is 00:41:36 I didn't copy you. You didn't copy me. But we actually just saw the same thing. So that's why I try and look at other things to keep it fresh because it's fun to have a new fresh perspective. How do you perfect a mood board? I love a mood board. It's kind of like what started heaven. That's another viral moment we had. It was on this set in London. And it just like wasn't vibing the way I thought. So I kind of got bored of like tweaking the model's hair and telling them to do this shot. I'm like, yeah, throw those earrings on. and I was pinning the earrings in the mood board and taking photos of it. I'm like, this looks way better.

Starting point is 00:42:05 But the photos were just what we had for references for posing. And that ended up being like a viral piece of content that now is on Pinterest every day, but for other brands. But it really, I wish I trademark that, but it's impossible. But I think, I don't know, it's just like my flavor of the month, my mood of the month. Like I said, I'm always trying to think of something new because as soon as I see it's being done a lot, I want to change. So I watched a very viral clip of you on the Skinny Confidential.

Starting point is 00:42:30 being like, this is how I use AI. And it was to ask the AI for advice in someone's tone of voice or what they would do. So I don't know if you watched the KatG-U-PT episode that I did. We tested that. Really? So I brought an AI expert on. And I said, this is my friend Pia's hack. Let's try it.

Starting point is 00:42:47 Let's ask for business advice as Maggie Sellers. So it was really interesting because I actually thought that it gave pretty good advice, but it was very generic. It was very high level. So your new flavor of the month with AI, what is the most unhinged, but per seigneurial? productive or best way that you use AI right now? I quit chat, Chb-T. You broke up with chat. God, yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:07 I'd barely even use chat, to be honest. I use it for some stuff like that to help me with an email to say we have like a million taglines like, heaven on holiday, heaven bar, whatever, come up with three more, like stuff like that I would use it for. It's honestly, it's not good. I don't like AI that talks to you like a friend. I like AI that's efficient. My hacks right now is we're using Claude.

Starting point is 00:43:29 and I'm having probably like two meetings a week with people that are building stuff for us with AI to make our business more efficient. I'm like creating my own skills and agents within Claude to make my life more efficient. I think my number one biggest hack is voice noting with AI. So I will go on a morning walk for an hour and sometimes I'll be like, oh my gosh, I like to be in the office by 8.30. So it's like really not suiting me if I'm on my walk at 7.15. I'm not going to have enough time to do everything, plus get ready, which is also important part of my day. So I walk around for an hour. I talk to myself and I come up with so many ideas.

Starting point is 00:44:07 I'll pull up the Canva. I'll go through our launches. I'll just say, add this, add this. I think we should do this kind of concept for holiday. I want to give this type of girl. I want the content exactly like this. Slack Annika and tell her this. Slack a vet, this.

Starting point is 00:44:20 Slack my ops channel this. Ask when there's PO is coming in. I'll get a summary. I'll then save it to like add to all my decks. and then I'll get all the slacks like, send, send, send, send, send. And sometimes I come through kind of weird, but at least it says sent from Claude, so they know if it's not my tone of voice. And in that hour, I've literally like done so much.

Starting point is 00:44:37 And they're like, how does your brain work? You were thinking about this, this and this at once. But I'm like, it's because I was on such a like inspirational moment on my walk that I can kind of go anywhere in the business. And then I don't have to write it all down because that would slow me down. Do you think that you've always had this beginner's mindset where you're just like, okay, being bad at something for a bit? and that's what gets you on these things very quickly.

Starting point is 00:44:58 Yeah, and one time, I don't know if I should tell this story because it's like so embarrassing. But one time my friend told me, she was like, you know what I love about you? You're just not embarrassed. And I was like, thanks. I appreciate that. And it's true. I'm just like not embarrassed. I'm the first person to say in a meeting.

Starting point is 00:45:14 I don't know what that acronym means. And they're like, you're the founder. That's embarrassing. I don't know what that means. And I like it. I would appreciate to people think I'm embarrassed, but I'm not. The story that she was like. Like, I love that you're not embarrassed is when I was literally like 17 and a half years old.

Starting point is 00:45:30 I stayed at Cody's house. Like, I'm almost adult. And I had a peppermint tea before bed and I wet the bed. I literally wet the bed. And I told everyone, I still think it's funny. His sister brought it up the other day and goes, remember that? And I'm like, yeah, that was like one of the funniest moments ever. And you know what he did?

Starting point is 00:45:45 I woke him up and I go, oh, my God. Oh, my God, I've wet the bed. And he goes, don't worry. Just roll over on my side. I was like, you're my husband. But you've known Cody since you were 12. No, when we're 12. Yeah. And I was obsessed. Obsessed. Are you like Haley Bieber in that you've manifested your life? Yeah, I'd say so. I manifest my husband. But I like to plan my life. It's like, is it a plan or is it a manifestation? You know what I mean? What's the difference?

Starting point is 00:46:15 I think people like to manifest like, oh, I'd love that. Don't do anything about it. I'm like, I'd love that. So I'll put in my plan and do it in November 2025. Like, it's in the plan. So it is going to happen. And I think. it's like I'll show someone my plan for the year. Like here's my vision board and they're like, yeah, but that's going to happen. I'm like, yeah, of course it is because I'm going to make it happen. But I think it's not so woo-woo. It's like, yes, I'll add it to the to do list and it will get done. So the thing that you've manifested the most recently is obviously you're pregnant. Yes. Talk to me a little bit about manifesting this pregnancy. I'll talk to you about manifesting it and then I'll talk to you about like the work. I said I need to be pregnant on my five year wedding anniversary, which is Halloween. And that's what's going to happen. So it's in my Canva dock. I have a

Starting point is 00:46:59 camber dock every year of like my vision board for the year because it's too overwhelming to have it all on one page. So obviously I have multiple pages per month. So October, November, 2025 is pregnancy. Get pregnant. Then obviously you have to match it up with your ovulation. So I was freaking out because my ovulation was two weeks after that day, but that's fine. And then, yeah, got pregnant first try, exactly to the exact time I wanted. I will caveat all of this is like, yes, I put it in my vision board. Yes, it was my plan. But I also went to the doctor a year and a half before and was like, I need to get pregnant

Starting point is 00:47:35 this month this year. How am I doing? Took a load of supplements, tracked my ovulation, fixed my thyroid, ate super healthy, worked out, made Cody stop going in the sauna. Like, I did all the right things. And then, yes, got lucky on our one try. but it wasn't like I'm like, let's do it this month and it just randomly worked. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:47:54 So I like to kind of, that's what I'm saying. It's like a manifestation with a plant. Did you call this prep trimester zero? No. What's your thoughts on that? I think it's cool. I think it's really cool. And I have seen a bit of content like that.

Starting point is 00:48:10 I totally scroll past it and try and avoid it because I'm like, if I didn't do that, I don't want to watch it and be like, shit, did I fuck something up? Do you know what I mean? Well, it kind of sounds like, you know, you did it. And I've actually been thinking a lot about this for myself of like, how do I trimester zero my business? Because that is a whole different beast that is going to happen at some point, right? I'm not sure when. But it's like, how do you prepare yourself as the founder to take off the time to actually enjoy that part of your life? Yeah. What have you done to start

Starting point is 00:48:42 setting up different things so that you can either take off some time or at least not feel like you're underwater when you're a new mom and running a business? I have set up the team and I try and give them so much autonomy and control and I also think I apply a lot of pressure and I'm like almost a pusher like this isn't good enough. Do it again. Do it again. Do it again. To the point where like everyone's so self-sufficient. Like I don't have to be there every day. Nothing breaks if I'm not there. Yes, sure. I'm the visionary. But like other people have great visions and ideas too. I think for me, all I need to do is set up our plan for every launch and the design, approve the designs, like design them and then approve them. But if that's done in advance, like, I could take two years

Starting point is 00:49:26 off. If I've done every launch, I could literally step away. Like, they're so good. And I have so much trust and faith in my team that I'm like, it's going to be fine. I did say the other day, I was like, I'll probably be offline for like 72 hours. And then I'll be reachable by a Slack. And Vivian, my VP of Ops was like, babes, that's crazy. And I was like, honestly, Slack's like my TikTok, like, I'm going to want to be checking things, I think. But we'll see. I'm just going to keep it easy. So you don't necessarily want to take a mat leave. I want to have slow mornings with my baby and I imagine waking up and waking up my baby and then making a coffee for me and my husband and feeding the baby in bed and going for a walk. And then I imagine getting on my laptop

Starting point is 00:50:05 in the mid-morning. And then I imagine going to the office a couple of days a week. Last thing I want to do is be chained to going into the office 830 to 5.30 and feel like, Like, I'm here to prove it to you all that I'm still working because that's just unproductive for everyone. So I think I'm going to take a balance. But I definitely, like, I love working. So I don't want to stop that. And that's the same thing when I got pregnant. I'm like, well, I'm not giving up my old life.

Starting point is 00:50:31 The baby hopefully will just come into it, hopefully. But I know it probably sounds so naive. Then people who have babies are like, that's never going to happen. So we'll see. One thing I will never do is let my team burn out, which happens. happens when someone is stretching themselves across a full-time job and trying to become an expert in something new. But I also recognize that with HSR, there are skills that could 100% change our trajectory as a business that we just haven't mastered internally, like generative engine

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Starting point is 00:51:47 Visit pro.fiber.com to learn more. For the first half of my career, I wasn't allowed to take credit for my own work. I couldn't talk about what I was building, and I couldn't use my own voice. I absolutely hated it. One day, I decided that things had to change, so I became a creator myself.

Starting point is 00:52:03 I built Hot Smart Rich as a platform where I could share my insights and own every single word. But if there's one thing I've learned, it's that growing a following requires consistency, which is a lot easier said than done. Stanley, the AI content machine developed by our sponsor, Stan, would have been the biggest help to me when I was first starting our channel because Stanley is specifically designed to make it easier for you to post content every single day. You connect it

Starting point is 00:52:28 to your Instagram, it learns your tone of voice, and knows exactly what your audience is actually going to resonate and engage with, and it helps you create content based off of that. We just started using it on HSR and it is unbelievable. Give Stanley a try for free at getstandly.aI slash Maggie. You've obviously dabbled in investing. What is it about investing that's really intriguing to you? I like building brands and I like being involved in that. Some of the things I've invested in definitely not in the building stage.

Starting point is 00:52:59 They're like big companies, for example, shop-eye. But I still, I get a front seat to like what they're doing. Like they want to test new features or they want to run something by a founder. they ask me. I'm sure they ask a ton of other people, but they'll try it on heaven mayhem or ask me. Or like, par olive that I invested in. I'm like, let me help with this event on a nitty gritty. Like, here's a guest list and I'll reach out to these girls. But then like, let's do this for a campaign or have you thought of this? And I just like love having a seat to the show and being involved. And I think to me, I'm investing as like a hobby. I'm investing like instead of

Starting point is 00:53:30 sourcing some crazy bag and paying for that, I'm investing in your company. And the joy I get out of it is this value and having a seat to the show and being along for the ride rather than financial gain. You've had an interesting investor experience. What do you think you've learned about what not to do when you want to invest in brands and what to do really well to support founders? I think what to do really well is like ask them what they need but don't overstep. Like be there to help but it's also their company and I think if someone was coming to me to invest and then took over control, I would not feel good about that because I, and that's why I haven't taken any investment. But I think, I think I like love helping. And I think the, when you get the

Starting point is 00:54:18 right fit, it's like a marriage, you're both in it for the same reason. And especially angel investing is sort of as if I'm writing these $10 million checks that they're like, I can't refuse. Like, it's a really quite a small check. So they're like, they could say no to the money, but it's more about having me there and the value I can bring. So I think they're open to receiving it. Someone wants to pitch you their company. What's going to make them stand out? I do think relentless following up is good and, you know, staying front and center, but like not in an annoying email way. Like, I need to see, like, what you're actually doing or something different about it when you follow up. I definitely don't want someone to go cold because I'm also like,

Starting point is 00:54:55 do you not care? But I think, I think I just have to like them and the product. Like, I think a hundred follow-ups and 100 deliveries of cookies are never going to do it if I just. don't like the product and I just don't resonate with it. Do you hate to say no? No. I love to say no. How is the best way that you can say no if you're a people pleaser? I'm not a people pleaser. So I say no all day, every day. And it's like my most favorite thing about myself. And I tell everyone I know, I'm like, hey, by the way, I'm not a people pleaser. And like, you should be more like me because it's amazing and it's so freeing. And I don't care if you think I'm a little bit selfish because I feel like the people pleaser is like, I wish I was more like that. So no one really thinks I'm selfish or maybe they do. But if I don't

Starting point is 00:55:34 want to do something, I won't do it. If we don't want to do it for the brand, I won't do it. And it's like, I don't think anyone listening is like, what a bitch. What a selfish little bitch. They're probably like, damn, I should do that too. So yeah, I'm not a people pleaser. No, I've had so many girls on the show and so many of them break up with being a people pleaser as they go. Yeah. I'm currently doing that. Good. And actually, one of my least favorite parts about investing is having to say no to someone's business. But I posted this on my threads last night, which gets absolutely no views, but plugging my threads. I actually post a lot of VC information there. Yeah. I need to follow it. Last night, I posted a no to a brand and I said to the founder, thank you so much for the opportunity. Never forget that,

Starting point is 00:56:15 like, you are offering me an opportunity to make money. Yeah. You're not a charity. I'm not giving you money for you to go and do whatever with. Like, I'm actually missing out on an opportunity. And when you reframe your brain as to like, I'm offering something to someone that could make them more money, I fundamentally think that you are a better founder because you don't come from this place of like, oh, there's so much more above me. And I think we've also glamorized investors so much of like knowing so much and being so much better than you. Someone that's listening that resonates more with myself of like maybe being a people pleaser or maybe coming at situations where you almost think, well, they're better than me. Yeah. How have you been able to coach people in your office to think a little bit more like you to be less people pleasing?

Starting point is 00:57:01 not afraid of saying no and just like know your value and your worth. I have trained everyone in the office to be a great negotiator. That's one thing. I'm like, no, go back and do it more. Like, you know the worth and know what we're willing to pay and we will negotiate. So that's one thing. I think with the people please a thing and feeling like people are better than you, that's where I think it comes from. You're trying to people please because you don't, you feel a little bit less than and something. But I don't know, I went and spoke at Harvard Business School and people like, are you nervous? I'm like, not really. Everyone's probably my age or younger and would love to have a cool brand like Kevin Mayhem and want to know how I did it.

Starting point is 00:57:35 I'm just speaking to people just like me or like celebrities. They're literally just our age, our age people who have done way cooler things and have been papped more. But like we're literally all the same people. Exactly going back to the community event versus influencer. Like everyone has so much to learn from each other. So I don't really think I'm better than anyone and I don't think they're better than me. So I feel like bring yourself down to earth. That's my advice. Like bring yourself down to earth for a little and realize like what is so different about me versus them and like why can't I say no or why can't I be on the same playing field? How do you think someone can win in a negotiation? Like three simple things that people can dig away from that. I think with negotiating,

Starting point is 00:58:14 you need to you need to be respectful and you need to realize like what what value are you getting here? Can you get it elsewhere? And then I think if you can get it elsewhere or like you can build it yourself on AI, you have such a leg to stand on. So like, go use that and go say to them, honestly, like, honestly, our brand is really pop in and we have a lot of young founders following us. We can post you guys. Plus, I could probably do this with another company, half as much, or I could build it myself with AI. So can you give us this deal? Because this is what we're willing to pay. And they're like, okay, or like somewhere close to it. Your employees, they almost feel like family to you. Well, yeah, not quite. They're like not family. I like to keep it like the most

Starting point is 00:59:01 professional sorority sisterhood. We're all such good friends. We will reply to each other's stories. I mean, maybe they all text on the weekend. I don't. But like I'll reply to their story. Like, you look so pretty. Or like, where's that outfit from? Or like, that food looks so good. But I'm not coming into the office every day hugging them. There is definitely a line like this is professional. We're working. And I think sometimes they're like, I wish it could be a bit more fun. I'm like, this is fun. You are working on a fun brand. You have a fun job. You have so much autonomy in your career. You get fun gifts. We do fun work events. But like, it's a job. We're in here because we need to make money. So like, I'm reminding them that it's a job. And I think sometimes

Starting point is 00:59:38 I see other businesses where it's like, we're such a family. And like, it does seem really nice. But like at the end of the day, we're there to do a job. So I think that's like a good balance we have. And I think everyone actually really appreciates it as well. I agree with you. And I actually used to do, I think, a mistake. I would become really close with people at the beginning and almost not have the boundaries. And then it's really hard to add those in later. Whereas like when you set boundaries at the beginning, it's actually a lot easier when you get later on into the process to be like, well, tell me a little bit about your personal life.

Starting point is 01:00:08 Or like what are you doing on the weekend? Yeah. I feel like you've learned that, obviously, from like having entrepreneurs around you. What are the other secret codes of success that you've learned when your eaves dropping your. on your husband. He told me something the other day. I wasn't eavesdropping. He just told it to me, but he was like, we were talking about performance reviews and giving raises. And I think that's kind of like the point. Everyone's like, hey, I've been here for a year. Like, where's my raise? And he's like, you know what? I was reading. I forgot what the book was. But he was like,

Starting point is 01:00:36 it talks about motivation. And like some people, they're not motivated by money. They're motivated by like coming along for the ride and like building something bigger and more impactful. And like they're so motivated by being a part of this journey where they're making a difference. And I'm like, yeah, that's so true. So that's like a little bit of secret sources. Like, I tell everyone this work better be so fucking stunning that you would post it on your own personal feed right this second or your own LinkedIn. But equally like, if it is that stunning, go post it.

Starting point is 01:01:04 Like, own that. You did that. So I think that's part of like the success or the question to answer is like I want them to feel like this is equally theirs and they're excited about it. and they can scream it from the rooftops and do what they want with it as well. And, like, they're really part of it. There's a list of people that I desperately want to meet that I feel like would supercharge the next phase of my growth and not even just in business. Also in, like, the way that I think, my mindset, like my body, who are a few people that come to mind for you,

Starting point is 01:01:32 that you're like, I want to meet this person and I know that I'm going to be either a better mom or a better founder or a better friend if they're in my life. I met her a couple of weeks ago in passing, but I would love to sit down and interact with Morkan-Steuit. I think. think she's hilarious and I think she's unapologetically herself and I would love to see how she operates. I would love to interact with Kim Kardashian because I've heard she's so professional and like she goes into a million rooms every day and is so professional so I'd really like to see how she operates. And I agree with you. I meet people sometimes and I'm like, goals. Like I'm learning from you and I kind of replicate some behaviors or like take things

Starting point is 01:02:06 away from them as learnings. Who else? I feel like Lauren Ratner would have some really interesting things to say in terms of a marketing perspective. Who's a great mom? Well, I'm already friends with so many great moms. How would you describe yourself as a leader? I don't know, Maggie. We'll see. Like, I feel like I should ask them, I know what I want. And I'm like, it should be like, this, this and this. Anyone have any thoughts? And then someone will be like, let's say I want everything green, green, green. And someone's like, I just thought pink was better. I'm like, you know what? Pink's really nice. Let's do pink. Like I'm not one to change my mind all the time. I'm not erratic. I'm not frantic, but I listen to everyone else. Like if they have another opinion, I'm like, okay, if you guys

Starting point is 01:02:47 think that, let's do that. I'm really open to their feedback. I don't know how to describe myself as a leader. I've never thought of like what three words I would use. I think maybe I'm inspirational. Like I like to be like, let's do this, guys. Let's build this. No, I want to be the best. I want this to be about us. I want let's do this. Let's do that. And I like to bring them along for the ride. But yeah, I'm not sure what other characteristics I would use. I think specific. I'm very specific and creative or visionary. Yeah. I think also like efficient and like things to be done efficiently. I think that you are very similar in all aspects of your life in a really good way. Like I always know what to expect with you. And you've actually trained me so well because when you get a text

Starting point is 01:03:32 message, you will open it and not necessarily respond. Yeah. And I would spiral when we were first friends. And I was like, oh my gosh, Pia literally hates me. And it actually helped having a friend like you who I had to relearn a different language with where you have so much going on and you aren't a people pleaser and you're very specific. You're very visionary. You're very inspirational. And so I developed a code of language, of friendship with you that I haven't really had with other friends. And it's been, I was reflecting a lot on that before you were coming on the show of like, we have a very different relationship than I have with most of my other good friends in a really good way. Well, let me tell you that is part of my personal brand. And that is like such an

Starting point is 01:04:18 intentional choice. If you text me, hey, baby, you in L.A. I've just been broken into. I'd be at your house in five minutes because of course I've seen the message. If you're like, hey, P, I'm in a, I need this. Of course I'm responding. But if you're like, hey, what dates are you going to be Europe, I'm like, that she doesn't need me. Not that it's so intentional and calculated, but I don't like the feeling that people text me all the time. My friends, yeah, but like people I work with or like, I'm like, you don't get to just like jump into my space right now. Like sometimes people, like, you're such a bad responder. I'm not. Like if I want to respond, like my husband gets a response within one second. My assistant, like whatever, they'll get a response within one millisecond, but I think

Starting point is 01:04:58 I'm just very intentional. Like, don't want to be too available. And I kind of want to give that vibe. that like, oh, she's not so reachable. Like, I truly try that, do that vibe. Oh, my God, I'm obsessed with you. Okay. We're going to do some rapid fire because you've been talking forever. P.M.A.M.A.M.S.

Starting point is 01:05:13 last thing you put on your credit card. More clawed tokens. Do you know what that is? Oh, yeah. I just bought a $100 a month plan. Oh, yeah. You got to level it up, girl. It's crazy. Once you start running skills, you go to add more tokens. Yeah, it's crazy.

Starting point is 01:05:28 Last most expensive thing. I did a wardrobe refresh for my, pregnancy style and I bought some new things because I need to feel good and feeling good and looking good is important to me. What is your credit card? I have platinum amex, gold amex. I just got the American one. It's like Citibank, but I'm planning to use that for points for travel. And I just got an Atlas card and I have Chase Sapphire. And why do you have five credit cards? Because I spend a lot of money and someone has to have the credit card under their name for the business, I spend a lot of money for ads or for expenses. So I want to put different things on different cards for different points.

Starting point is 01:06:07 And for example, I'll get like business class flights on my points or I'll go home to Australia. It's like literally $20,000 for flights and I'll do it on my points. So that's why I kind of pick and choose my cards for different reasons. What's the best card for travel? I think it's the gold amics for points to rack up points. But then I think I think. I think if you're booking travel, it's the platinum X. Okay. You can only wear one accessory for the rest of your life. Watch earrings, sunglasses.

Starting point is 01:06:35 I think it's a sunglasses. I know it's crazy, but I have them. I guess you don't have them inside, but I have them. I would never leave the house without my sunglasses. Can we bring some sunglasses over, Bob? The bag's so not cheap. So, like, pick a pair of sunglasses for you and for me right now. Or these are glasses.

Starting point is 01:06:52 These are glasses. And I, like, what matches the vibe? These are our Sloans. They're the bestseller. They're a best seller for a reason because they suit every face shape. See, don't you think it glass just elevates? It does. So these I don't even need a prescription for.

Starting point is 01:07:06 No, but your assistant has them and she put her prescription in them. I know. And then they also are the transcendence one? Wait, what are they called? When you go outside, she made them go darker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:18 Okay. Wow, you would really pick a glass over an earring. Yeah, I think so. Okay. I just, I love a pair of glasses. Okay, you can live in New Yorker a latest starter brand in your 20s. What would you recommend someone do? Oh, you know what?

Starting point is 01:07:34 I might choose New York. I might choose New York. They look really good on you these glasses. And you actually look like Rachel Bilsen right now. Oh, wow. With these glasses on, you have to see yourself. But I think I would choose New York. And you know what?

Starting point is 01:07:45 I have a tiny pang of regret that I never lived there. But I think it's a fast-paced city. Everyone's working. You get that like hustle mentality. I think for some random reason in life, I was born with it or bestowed on it because of my husband. I don't think you get that hustle vibe in LA, even though it's done nothing but amazing things for me. I think New York's where it's at. I agree. What is the first thing you do every single morning? Check my phone. Literally wake up, turn my alarm off, check my phone. Just like

Starting point is 01:08:12 any quick urgent text message, slack email, like barely check it. Roll over, give my husband a kiss, he'll still be asleep and then I get up and I go to the gym or I go for a walk. At what time? Get up at 5.30 every day. Oh my God. Okay. Okay. You. You have to deliver hard news. Are you doing it in a text message, email or phone call? Depends who it is, but probably a phone call. Best hotel you've ever stayed at. Oh my gosh.

Starting point is 01:08:39 It's in Italy. It's called Costello du Rescchio. Amazing. So romantic and so amazing. Who is your favorite comfort creator? I like watching you. I love you. I like watching, this is so random.

Starting point is 01:08:53 But I really like watching people in their homes and doing things. I also really like select mum content. But I've liked it for years. Like, I'll know all about, like, different things because I've, like, been obsessed with an influencer who had a baby when I was, like, 17. You need to look chic. What is the first thing you're reaching for? Not glasses.

Starting point is 01:09:14 That's so unfair. No. It's the rules. Okay. I'm not people pleasing right now. Okay. Love it. She is learning.

Starting point is 01:09:22 What am I reaching for? I think a big pair of earrings and a sling. like bun and a lip liner. And what's your current lip liner? Wear off a walnut from makeup forever. But I will say I have like tan on rotation that all look kind of the same. And yeah, I've obsessed with them all. I mean, you look good in everything.

Starting point is 01:09:40 Okay, Birken or Kelly. Kelly, Kelly, don't even worry. It's Kelly. How do you know if you're a Birken or a Kelly girl? Well, I'm both, but specific. I'm a specific Birken. I want the Birken to be like a beat up. I want the Kelly to be beat up.

Starting point is 01:09:56 up to, but I think anything beat up and vintage is cool, not a mini-kelly for me, just a bigger, like I love the one I have, the box-leather one. I would also love a box-leather, massive burkin that I can, like, throw my baby's bottle in. That's the vibe I want. How do you, okay, this is not rapid fire, but you're developing your personal brand and you decide mini-kelis are not for me. Why? How? It's just like innately. I just know that. Am I a Minnie Kelly girl? If you wanted to be, and I think you do. You do want to be.

Starting point is 01:10:30 But what does that say about me? I don't know, Maggie. She does. I say it. I do know. Say it. Well, I just, I think I don't want a Mini Kelly because of course everyone has every bag, but to me I like mine because they're like beat up in vintage and they have some personality.

Starting point is 01:10:47 I just don't like the way that some people wear the Mini Kelly in the same way is almost like a status symbol. Do you know? Yeah. And they're also friggin' expensive. So like, I'd rather choose something else because by the time you get your hands on a mini-kelly black paint with gold hardware, like, that's a big price tag. Do you want to hear something so funny? I asked my audience because, you know, I get denied from every single Hermes store.

Starting point is 01:11:10 Like, it is a hilarious thing. I asked my community a few years ago when I was in Paris. I mean, this is last summer or the summer before. I said, Hermes keeps denying me. Should I just buy the Chanel bag? And honestly, half of my poll was like, you're not in her mes girl. You are a Chanel girl. But I feel like I love the Birkin for what it is.

Starting point is 01:11:31 Like, if you know how it was developed, it was like for moms on an airplane with the CEO and Jane Birkin. Like, when you actually understand the history of how functional this bag is, it was so a bag I wanted. Yeah. And I would be lying if I said, like, if there wasn't a Mini Kelly, like, available for me, if I would not buy it. I would buy it, too. But, like, I don't know if that's my nighttime going out bag. Exactly. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:11:54 But I'm going to message you and you can help me, like, do a brand refresh. Yes. Okay. Two more questions. So, you know, I do those HsR love notes. Yes. What do you think about those? I love them.

Starting point is 01:12:06 I love them. Do you? I love them. Sometimes I read them, though, and I'm like, is she sad? You're like, honestly, yeah. You're like, I do love myself no matter what anyone thinks. I'm like, no one's thinking it, babe. We love you too.

Starting point is 01:12:20 But I love the HSR love notes. I say it back to myself. Okay, so if you could only say one HSR love note for the rest of your life, what would it be? Something about, like, my intuition will get me wherever I want to go or, like, whatever you need is within you, something like that to like, that would be mine. That would so be yours. If you had to title the season of your life, what would it be called? Efficiency, I think. It would be called efficiency.

Starting point is 01:12:49 Okay, PMA. I love you so much. You're going to have to come back on. Like, honestly, probably the most fun I've had in a really long time on the show. Yeah. It's just different recording with people you have a real relationship with and that you know. And also, I've seen you come really far. Can I say one thing? You sent me flowers for my birthday. I don't know when it was two years ago maybe. And the card said something like, happy birthday. You're smarter than you think or you know more than you think or something like that. I, wish I knew the exact phrase. It was you know more than you think. Yeah, you know more than you think. Love Maggie. And I'm like, firstly, so chic and straight to the point, love it. But that, when people say, what's the best advice you've ever been given?

Starting point is 01:13:31 I say that because I'm like, I actually did know more than I think. And I actually still do. And that's what I'm saying. Like, that's why I'm not a people pleaser because I'm like, we're all one of the same. But like, you taught me that. So that was incredible advice. Like you should Google it. I've said that in multiple articles.

Starting point is 01:13:45 Best advice I ever got. Plugging. Cloud. Hot smart rich. Name dropping. I love you. Where can people find you and how can AHSR help you? People can find me and heaven at P.M.A.N. HsR can help me with letting us know what you guys want to see.

Starting point is 01:14:02 Like, do we want more community design? Do we want more products? Do we want more this? That I love developing stuff with the community and with other people and like being in my DMs and having a conversation. So if there's something you guys want, tell us. And we're going to manifest in HSM collab. Yeah. What are we going to do? Well, that's what we should ask them. Yeah. So we'll do something special for people at the end of the episodes so they can tell us. Love it.

Starting point is 01:14:25 Love you so much. Thanks for having you on. Love you more.

Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Pia Mance: Buying The Right Outfit Made Me a Millionaire Before 30 (The Blueprint For Building Your Dream Life)

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