Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - The Real Cost of Love, Business, and Building To $100M Together (Siff & Nish, Arrae)

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

What if you took the money saved for your dream wedding and bet it all on your business? Would it make or break you? Siff Haider and Nish Samantray, co-founders of Arrae, share their raw story of love, sacrifice, and scaling to $100M. From immigrating to the U.S. with no safety net, to choosing business over a wedding, to learning how to fight (and win) together as partners in love and work, this is what it really costs to build big. Why skipping their wedding was the best decision they ever made How they scaled Arrae from $1M to $100M in just 5 years The truth about building as immigrant founders chasing the American dream How to fight with your partner without breaking the business (or the marriage) Why most founders fail, and how they found the answers anyway What it really takes to hire, scale culture, and protect a $100M business Why they said no to selling (even at $300M) Why they treat money in business as math, not emotion, and how that changed their personal spending HSR Angels get ⁠⁠15% off at Arrae⁠⁠ with code HSR15⸻This episode is sponsored by:⁠⁠⁠⁠Pique⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Use this link for 20% off⁠⁠⁠⁠HSR Newsletter⁠⁠ - Get 3 months free using ⁠this link⁠⸻⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐If you like what you hear, rate, review, and subscribe to Hot Smart Rich, the podcast supporting women who own their worth — in business, wealth, and life.⁠⁠Subscribe on YouTube⁠⁠⸻💌Own your worth — and build the life you want. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter, the no-BS guide to startup life, consumer brands, and becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self, written by Maggie Sellers. Join 250,000+ women building wealth, confidence, and community on their own terms.⁠⁠Subscribe here⁠⁠⸻Become an HSR Angel in the ⁠⁠⁠Global HSR WhatsApp⁠⁠ channel⁠!⸻Follow Maggie:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tiktok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Locker⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ShopMy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon Storefront⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⸻Follow Siff, Nish & Arrae:⁠Instagram: ⁠⁠Siff ⁠⁠& ⁠⁠Nish⁠⁠⁠⁠Tiktok⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠⁠⁠Arrae ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⸻More from Hot Smart Rich:⁠⁠The Hot Smart Rich Money Mindset⁠⁠⁠⁠Merch⁠⁠⸻This episode is produced by HSR Media, a division of Creative MES LLC, with support from Vandana Ravi and Coldea Productions.⸻Hot Smart Rich is your place to hear unfiltered conversations with the people shaping the future of culture, creators, startups and community. Hosted by Maggie Sellers, investor and media powerhouse, and guests breaking the mold, you’ll get the real deal as it relates to navigating the startup fast lane, leveling up your life or becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self.... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So let's get into it. Siff and Nish, welcome to Hot Smart Rich. Are you ready to get Hot Smart Rich? Let's go. I'm honestly so excited that we're here because I've known both of you guys independently, but like definitely together. And I haven't seen you guys do a lot of together interviews, have you? We don't do that many.

We really don't. Like I think maybe the last one was when we did Lauren and Michaels. Yeah, that one and we did one together on your podcast. Yeah, I love that one. No, we don't really do that one very often. Is that intentional or people just like don't ask? It's not intentional. Honestly, I think our time is like very limited.

Yeah. And so we try to divide and conquer. And then also I think it's tough to interview two people. And Nish and I both have a lot of personalities. So I feel like, I don't know. Like it's only the pose. Yeah, we only like going on podcast where people ask us like good questions. insightful so we can say something about it.

Because otherwise, you've been on, like, in the early days we're on podcast together where someone would ask a question and if it would be like, niche, get me out of this podcast right now. You guys are making me so nervous now because I'm like, oh, about the pressure. Come on. This is going to be amazing. You hang out with us enough to like know everything. No, this is like, I remember, I remember the one you were talking about.

That's so funny. Okay, well, let's start here because we are all technically from Canada. We are. Um, you guys are actually, were you guys born in Canada? No. No. Okay, so you both emigrated to Canada and now you guys have emigrated here. We kind of moved at a similar-ish time frame.

Um, can we just quickly talk on like how traumatic that experience was for you guys? I think Maggie, it hit me harder than it hit Nish. And it's funny because I'm someone who's like very calm typically. Like, things don't really ruffle my feathers. But the, the visa situation was like hard. And so it was actually really nice for me to get to depend on you. He was like very calm through it. He's like, I don't know why you're worried.

It's going to be fine. And I was like, how do you know that? Yeah. Because I think like the thing that people don't understand about if you're an immigrant building a business in the States is you don't only have the pressure of building the business and it failing on itself. You also have the pressure of like, can I sign a lease? At one point, if you don't even have a social security number, like you don't even have

a bank account here. Like I remember the first walk we went for and you were like, I can't draw. I don't have a bank account. All of the money that I'm spending in the States is on a Canadian currency. It was insane. It was crazy. Why did you guys decide to leave Canada to build your business to move to the States? So what really happened is when we started the company,

this inherently majority of our sales and our customers were in the U.S. Just inherently. Just like right from the get-go, organically. And so we started the business, you know, March 2020, literally by May, 90% of sales are in the U.S. And so obviously we started, you know, nurturing those customers, and all of a sudden the business is bigger here. Then we start hiring more people here.

And so it just made more sense for us to build a portion of the team in the U.S. So like all of our marketing team, a lot of our product development team is all based out of here. And so for us, it was like, okay, we have to be here because we wanted to be physically be with the team. And like for us, like building remotely is a part of what we do, but it's like, a lot of our primary kind of big ideas come under in person. And so even today, a lot of the team works together in person. So we just knew we had to be in the U.S. for that. And also for Siff and I, like, like the investors that we wanted to work with,

the people that we wanted to work with, it was all here. So, like, we just really wanted to move here, like, as quickly as possible. Also, I think being a wellness brand, I think L.A. is really, I would say, one of the wellness capitals of the world. And so our intention when we thought of living in the U.S. was never to live in L.A. it was actually to live in New York. LA was kind of an accident. We came here actually to be on Lauren and Michael's podcast.

And we were here for 10 days. And Nish and I were like, wait, like all the wellness trends are starting here. Like people are so ahead that it doesn't make sense for a wellness company to be headquartered anywhere but L.A. And so that's kind of how it happened. And then of course, like even just from a personal wellness standpoint, living in L.A. is incredible. And I mean, I love New York and I love the energy that we. get in New York, don't get me wrong, but from a wellness standpoint, our quality of life is just

objectively better. I get to walk outside in the morning. I'm just someone who gets more ideas that way. So it's just been really beneficial from both a business, but then also like a founder health and wellness perspective as well. Let me ask you guys, this is very controversial. Where I really wanted to start with you guys was going all the way back to deciding to like take the money for your wedding and actually put it into your business. And I don't think that I have met many people in Canada of that do that. Whereas, like, that was almost a non-negotiable for you guys, where it was like, why would we do that when we could go and build for ourselves?

So when you guys had decided to get married and you made that decision, can you just, like, take everyone through, one, like, your love story of whatever you're comfortable talking about, of, like, what that was actually like to come together. And two, especially for you guys, once people hear, like, how significant that moment could be, why you decided to spend that money in your business instead of on your wedding. So, I mean, we met, I mean, it's our 13 year anniversary and like, that's Thursday. What are you doing for it, Nish? We're going for dinner.

You guys go for dinner every week. It's one of the things I love about you is like constant date night. Please be better, Nish. We were talking about it and we're like, well, what do we do? And it's like, we can't go on a trip because we're actually going on a trip like on Sunday for work. Okay. And so it's not like, I mean, and also when your schedule. is so packed. It's like,

Nish, can me up for some ideas for SIPO, guys? I will. I actually will. No. I mean, he knows like my wish list for gifts and vice versa. So I guess we'll like get each other nice. We'll make something happen. We'll make something good happen. But yeah, we've like, we've been together for a long time. And both of us have always been very career focused. So I would say, you know, I, prior to Array, I was a creator. niche was extremely successful in fintech, but we knew that at some point we wanted to work together on something. What that would be was undecided. For me, I was always someone who I wasn't going to

work on something unless it was like very meaningful to me personally. That's just how I am. And I'm also someone who's very like, how can I make a difference in the world? So when we found that idea, it was kind of a no-brainer. Like for us, I think I speak. But also like you're such a girl's girl that like if you like you know the way that you think about niche or you feel about him like was there ever a part of you that was like a tough decision of like it's either investing into my business or investing into the wedding you know what happened maggie we had started to plan our wedding and I was like this sucks like this is like the planning process is really like just hectic and then when we started to work on a ray we were like wait like this is so easy and so fun and so good

for us both like really energizing yeah it was like planning the wedding was was the opposite of that. And thankfully, Siff and I have all those people who don't do things that we don't like to do. And so, like, the moment we started doing something and it feels like shitty, we stopped doing it. And so planning the wedding, thinking about that, like, getting all of our families organized around that kind of stuff. It was so much work and not in a good way that we were just like, you know what? We don't want to do this. COVID hit when we started the business. And it almost gave us like the perfect excuse to not host a wedding. And also, we really wanted to work on the business. And the business needed money. And so for us, we're just like,

okay, let's just take this money and do this because it brings some more happiness. We really believe in it. And we actually don't want to do the wedding. And we really want to do this. Like, that's really what it felt like. Yeah. And then also we, we always said that like we can always have a wedding. Like, okay, fine. It won't be traditional. But I wouldn't call Nish and I guess like thought process around our relationship traditional. But that's fine. Like I think that that's why we're so good together. And our focus has always been our marriage. and not a wedding, you know? And I think that's what so many people miss the point of is it's like about the day and how big

and especially with TikTok. Like I think over the last two years, even with like specific celebrities that have blown up because of their wedding, it has become like something I think other than what it is really meant to be. And I think like you guys embody that exact type of partnership you want to find where it's not a day. It's about the journey because especially like, did you guys have the same vision of where your life would be, like forget just the business,

but like the life and the world that you guys have created, has that always been aligned? Yeah, I would say so. Yeah, that's. We like, we always, we always knew what we wanted. We've both been really big dreamers and we're not people who settle. That's the thing. And so it was always, sky's the limit.

We've always pushed ourselves. And so, I mean, I feel like we're just scratching the surface even right now. Like, there's so much left that we want to do. So if I remember I asked you when we were in London a few weeks ago for Brian's wedding. Like I was it was kind of getting to me of like getting in my head and like people just like even posting I was saying like it's hard sometimes when I haven't answered like so many people's text messages and I'm like posting and you looked at me and you were like fuck it. Like this is your job and I just think like that mentality of how sure you've always been and how

ambitious and like you both share that. Like have you guys always been that way or has it brought it out in each other since you met each other? I think Nish and I bring out the best in each other. And for sure, you know, I think as you mature and as you put yourself in a more and more healthy dynamic, I think your confidence just continues to grow. And so I think that for me, Nish has been like a very foundational rock in my life. And so he's just always encouraged me even in moments where I've maybe felt a little bit shaky to just, you know, be like sure of myself. And so those things like worrying about, oh, like if I do this, what are people, perceiving of me. Like, I feel like I've just been able to shed it more and more over time, I would say. For sure. And I think what's really cool is that like SIF's been that in a different

way. And so you know how different people are inherently different. So for some people, as an like lying comes really easy to them. And so they'll just lie blatantly, right? So like, for example, for me doing something that I don't like, it really irks me. So I just never been that kind of person to do that. But for other people, they might do that because they feel an obligation to someone else or whatever they're doing. So I think when you you hang out with someone else to, like for someone else, which seems so easy to do that kind of stuff. It's like, okay, you learn from that really easily. You know what I mean? It seems like you guys have always been on the same page. Like going back to the wedding, it's like you saved up

$484,000 before you guys started your business. And that so easily could have been put into like this extravagant thing. But you guys have always been a line that it's like, this is what we're doing. So I guess like when you took that money and you like took a huge bet on yourself and you were like, we're going to start this business. Like, did you already have this, like, set like, this is my roles and responsibilities and this is my roles and responsibilities? Or has it just, like, naturally formed? I think it's really naturally formed.

Yeah. I think we, right from the beginning, though, we knew what we were both good at. So obviously, at the beginning, you're doing everything. And then you get to a point where you're like, wait, this is a really poor use of our time. And, like, we don't need to both be doing every single thing. That's ridiculous. And so I think we were both hyper aware of what we were each good at. And so over time, it's like those things we've kind of gone into each of our silos.

And also like, there's obviously things we work on together. But I think that just realizing, becoming hyper aware of what we're good at. And, you know, there have been times where I've been like, oh, like, should I be on this? Call or whatever. This or what, whatever. And Nish has been like, why would you? It's a waste of your time if you're sitting on this with me when you could be using your brain for something else. And so it's just become, you've become more and more comfortable with that over time.

as well. Yeah, for sure. And I think, you know, initially, obviously there's certain things that matter to both of us a lot, but it's really crazy because, you know, there used to be a time where I used to be able to, I used to sit on on marketing calls and she used to sit on on, like, finance calls, and then I was just like, this is the biggest waste of time. Yeah. Like, why are you in this call? Why am I on that call? I'm adding zero value. You're adding zero value here. And so we're very naturally kind of flown into very specific roles that we're now part of. And honestly, I think this works even better because we're not overlapping on. on things that we don't need to overlap on, and you're working on complete different parts of the business. So it just like makes it even better. Do you guys ever disagree on like big decisions? Yeah, 100%.

Do an example of one? I mean like product, product is the one that we work on. I was gonna say like that seems like the biggest overlap, right? Yeah. Okay. So like have you guys ever really fundamentally disagreed about a decision? Oh my god, literally all the time. How do you guys work that out? We debate it out and it's funny because I think initially when team members start

and they see that they're like, a little bit shocked, but we always, I think we lead by example when we say that like, you have to debate to get to the right answer. And so we encourage that same thing from our team as well, that like if one of us is suggesting something that is inherently like not aligned with goals of the business or whatever, then they should also have the ability to debate us on that. So for sure, like, I mean, it was even last week we like got into like a very heated debate on something.

For sure. But the thing is, Maggie, like we did. debate in the sense, like, we're actually, like, arguing. Like, we're very intensely, but very articulately arguing about why we think the opposite thing. And then what that forces us to do is it ask you, like, okay, and then what? And then what? So you're thinking of almost, like, the 10th order consequence of each decision. And so, like, we're thinking through that we're arguing through it, and it's, like, very heated. But I genuinely think is we get the best decision because we care so much about it. You know what I mean? I agree. I think it's so

interesting because I don't really think people understand the size and the velocity of the business that you guys have built. You talked to me last year about potentially doing 20 million of revenue in 2024. Did you hit that number? Yeah, way more than that. So are you comfortable to share the size of a rate for 2025? Yeah, so we're going to do over $100 million this year. And we started the business in 2020. And so in 2020, it was a million dollar business. And now it's over $100 million dollar business. Can you repeat that? So in 2020, it was a million dollar business. We started in March of 2020.

In December of 2020, we did the first million dollars. It's 2025. We're going to do over $100 million. How does that feel? It feels absolutely surreal. Yeah. Like, there's, I know honestly, because we reflect back on these things. And it feels absolutely surreal.

It's actually insane because I remember at one point, it was around the 20 mark where we were like, okay, we see the clear path to 50, but we don't see the clear path to 100. And then we saw all of a sudden, it was like a series of things. And then we were like, we see the path to 100. And now it's like, we clearly see the path way beyond that. So it's a very surreal thing that happens. I don't even know how to explain it in words. But like, I remember when a million was a big deal to us. Of course. Like doing a million dollars in your first year of business is extremely hard to do. Like, but five-xing that, like in that time period in five years, is honestly unheard of. Like Courtney, my boyfriend, has made like over 300 personal investments.

And when he heard your numbers, like he turned to me and was like, you do not see that. Like he's been investing for 15, 20 years. Like he sees that very, very rarely. What do you think it has been that has gotten you to that point? I honestly think it's because we're like we seek the truth like always and so every question we're like okay so what do people actually want you know how do you tell that though because so many people that are listening want to start a wellness brand right like vMS supplements is probably the most like sought after category it's repeatable it's something that people do in a ritual every single day like it's the biggest trend right now is the wellness industry But I think, again, you guys are that exception to the rule.

Like, I think what people are listening is like, how do you get to the truth? How do you keep finding the right answer time and time again? Like, what is the pattern of that? Honestly, I think, like, we always ask the question of, like, what problem are we solving? Like, that's where we're starting. Because it's exactly what you said, Maggie, a lot of people we talk to, they're like, I want to get into VMS because the category is really hot. It's like it's a hot category.

It's not good enough. That's not why you start the company in VMS. It's not because it's a hot category. It's a hot category for certain reasons. But even within VMS, of the thousands and thousands of companies, there's only very few really good ones. And so I think we're always asking the question of, like, what problem are we solving, especially with the kind of products?

So when talking about products, because I think you guys have always been on trend with like MB1, constipation, below creatine tone. I put that in my newsletter, like, for all the reasons. But you guys have always been ahead of it. So when you guys are designing your products and you're looking at, at like the problem. You're not looking at like what is the trend right now.

You're looking, how does it start? Yeah. It's too late when I like really need people to understand that once you're seeing something and it's trendy, it's too late. But how are you always ahead of the trends? I, okay, so there's two things. I think that one of the things that I do in the company is oftentimes trend forecasting.

I don't, I can't explain to you how I have a premonition about these things, but I do. And then we always back that up with data. Okay. So we're looking at. what are the studies that are coming out? Like is there an increase in volume of studies? You mean clinical studies?

Clinical studies, correct. And then we'll obviously like look at ingredient trends as well because that then tells us, okay, like if there's an ingredient trend, does that tell us about macro trend and what people are looking for? Like what problem they want solved? We are also talking to our customers. We do like really intense surveys and focus groups as well. So I would say that I get a gut feeling and then after that or like any of us get

a gut feeling. Okay. And then after that it's like, you know, know, triangulated with heavy, heavy data. And so I feel like that would be like our secret, which is that it's, it's both a combination of gut feeling along with like a lot of data to back it up as well. So we're doing the work to follow our gut and just like our instincts as founders. But then at the same time, it's not just like, oh, I feel like it.

Like there's, I have to be able to. But can I be honest that's like, you know, like I feel like even if you didn't do all the data piece of it, is that I feel like it, which holds like 90% of the Yeah, really. Yeah, it really is. And is it both of your gut instincts or it's SIFs? It's actually SIFs specifically. Like SIFs really, really, really good of that.

She's really good of that. And so what she will do, and she'll be like, okay, Nish, I have a gut feeling about these five things. And I'll be like, no, it's going to be that thing within the five things. Because, like, we just have an idea based on the data piece of it, obviously. But Sif always knows. So I feel like that can be, and I have a really good gut intuition as well, like the psychic that we see says that I'm kind of like a witch.

But it's sometimes really distracting. because you get senses or you get like, oh, this is over there. You guys have built a $100 million business off of how many products? Eight. Eight. Yes, max. Yeah. You guys have built a $100 million business off of eight products.

Like what I see is such a failure of new entrepreneurs today is like they just get so distracted and put out so much stuff to the market. How have you guys created new news with eight products in five years to get to $100 million? I think you have to be so intentional. And the thing is that each product we release, we know it's a blockbuster product. Okay. It's like a hit every time. It's a hit every.

That's what we're betting on. And honestly, like, this is very much a niche thing where he has expectations for how each product should do. And that's either a failure or a success. And so what we pin ourselves to is like something that is going to hit the market. It's going to bring in a certain amount of revenue per year. And that is the sign of success. And so we take our time with our products.

We do three max four releases in a year. It takes us two plus years to formulate every product. And best, rest assured that when it's going to market, it's not just a rinky dink, like one ingredient thing that's going to top up like a million dollars in revenue. That's not our business model. It's like we are solving the big shit that people want solved. And I feel like the marketing evolution is growing as well.

So I guess like it's an interesting time to be talking to you guys because I think you guys have gone from like this scrappy kind of get shit done, like put things together to now you're hiring Victoria Secret Supermodels to be the face of creatine, which was like so smart because it's like every woman is so afraid that creatine is going to bulk them up, exactly, give them water. You guys choose like, we need to go big with this one. HsR girls are all about drinkable skin care in 2025. Yes, drinkable. This is not just another step in your skincare routine because the HSR girlies don't have time for that. This is the foundation for clear, bright, beautiful radiance, and it tastes amazing. The radiant skincare duo from Peak combines the power

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slash hsr 20% off. Every ambitious woman has a secret weapon. So let yours be the Hot Smart Rich Insights. It's how over 250,000 women are owning their worth in business, wealth, and life. Whether you're building a brand, making moves in your career, or wanting to get control over your finances, the Hot Smart Rich newsletter delivers the cultural context and consumer intel to keep you ahead. With only six months left in the year, it's time to make consumer trends, financial hacks, and HsR Insights your best friend, instead of mindlessly scrolling on social media.

We've built one of the most powerful communities of women at the intersection of consumer, capital, and culture. So join us with the paid version of our newsletter free for three months with the link in the show notes to claim your free offer. I guess my question to that is sometimes I think entrepreneurs or founders specifically are best from like zero to 50. Where do you guys feel like the business is at

in terms of your guys' skill set? And like where are you best? and how are you protecting the business, almost from yourselves, to keep the trajectory it's on? So you know what's really interesting, Maggie? We thought about this a lot, but Siff and I are like multi-billion dollar founders. Like, I don't think we're ever going to run out of steam. And also we want to build like massive, massive businesses. So I don't think a business is ever going to get too big for us to handle.

And so anything, you know, when we build these businesses, whenever it grows and grows and grows, it actually feels more and more akin to our type of business. And so the bigger it gets, the more we feel empowered to be able to run it, because I just think we're both really meant to have, kind of be building and operating businesses aside. And so we're never going to hire people above us to be able to do that because we feel so good at it. But thankfully, what we are doing is we're just hiring better and better and better talent

every single day. And so right now, like we have such an important, kind of mindset and the way we tackle hiring and the kind of people that we are bringing onto the business that like every single person our team is like top top tier and the way we operate the way we do certain things in the business it's a combination of us like me learning from all of the other pieces that have worked at and then half of them have been horrible half of them have been really really good i'm laughing because nish and i worked at a company together and like had very similar experiences.

But let's not put it on blast. So keep going. And so, no, but like, you know, at this point, it's like, okay, if you're going to be a $500 million business, we're hiring that kind of employee today. Right. And so that's kind of the process is in terms of hiring at least. Basically what I'm getting from this. This is why I fucking love the podcast is like I'm just so fired up listening to you guys. Like, you guys are just the anomaly.

And one of the things I've learned about your special sauce. is the team structure. Yes. It is fundamentally something I have never seen. And let me just try to explain what I view from the outside. And then I really want to dig into the Y. You guys have built an environment where it's like this perfect mix of friends meets boundaries, meets creativity, meets really hard workforce.

You guys party with your team. You go to Coachella with your team. You take them to Tulum and dance on tables with your team. They are like an extension of. you where I feel like if Alexa is representing the brand, it's like you've trained her to be that way. But like you guys didn't just hire like A players that had come from like the brands you aspire to. You actually like trained these people from almost like early stage of their career. Part of the thing that kills businesses is culture, right?

Like people. So what are things that people can do that are going to inspire them to have a similar culture with the boundaries that you guys have also done at Array? Honestly, I think the very first thing is like to win because. Our team loves winning. They like being number one. They like seeing results. And so for, I think, getting all your people surrounded and, like, really aligned with, like,

the mission and, like, what you want to do and be like, okay, guys, this is the goal. This is where we're going. And, like, this is what every single one of you is kind of a big part of. Do you guys, like, say that every single week on a Monday, like, chant? You're like, this is what we're doing? Like, is there, like, a tribal thing to do you right? No, honestly. The fact that we like to win.

You guys are very competitive. Yeah, we're like, it's either number one. or nothing. Like if we are not number one, it doesn't get, number two is not good enough. And everyone has that same mentality. And so I think we have said it so often. And like, it's not just us, by the way. Like, we'll be on calls and someone else will be leaving the call from our team. And they're like, well, you know, is this really the best? You know, and so everyone has that mentality. And so I think it's not just niche and I. It's, I feel like now it flows. Like even to the new team members, everyone knows that winning is our number one philosophy. Yeah. It's also really

interesting because I think one of your philosophies, and I don't know your like brand values or whatever, but from the outside in, I actually think you guys were the first people that really started treating your customers like influencers. This was like, I don't know if this was from five years ago, but at least I noticed it three years ago. And I think brands have really followed suit. Why did you guys decide to make that decision? And do you still, as you grow and you bring in like the faces that you just brought in for tone, like how do you balance working with celebrities, talent, versus treating your customers like the influencers. Your customer is an influencer, okay?

And I'm just gonna give you a very, like, basic example that everyone can relate to. You can see an influencer post about a product, but if your sister tells you about that product, you're gonna make that purchase immediately, okay? Your sister tells you, I bought this really good lip gloss. What are you gonna do? You're gonna go buy it.

Yeah. So if you are spending all your marketing dollars on just the influencers and the celebrities and completely neglecting your customer, That's where you lose out. So for us, right at the beginning, we said that our customers should be treated like influencers. And so when we started the brand,

influencers and customers would be getting the same packaging. And we wanted the customer to have that same unboxing experience that an influencer would have because these are the people who are actually spending money on your brand. And more than that, they can actually give you the best feedback. And so if we treat our customers like influencers, they're the ones who are going to go tell all their friends and they're the ones who are going to be the most real with us.

So that is, I would say, like, a very sacred relationship and people should not be neglecting that. Like community events, community PR packages, like those are just things that are inherently a part of our brand value, as is Nish and I feeling connected to that customer as well. Like we're not out here just trying to be besties with influencers. Like that. Well, it's so funny because one of the other things I was going to say is like you guys have some celebrity faces. Haley Bieber has invested in your brand through a DM, right? you guys never leverage Haley Bieber, whereas like a lot of brands are like, as seen on Haley Bieber, why have you guys not leverage that?

I mean, look, we we did early days, but then I think it's like you grow beyond that. There's like new news, you know? So at the beginning, like that was very exciting and like incredible. And we're of course like so, so grateful to her. I mean, she was a customer like she believed in us early, early, early days. but there's, you know, you can't, that can't be your only claim to fame. Totally. And so I think for us, we've always been like, okay, what's the next?

What's the next? Like, we can't just be talking about this thing that happened four years ago. Yeah. Like, we're way beyond that. Last year, you told me that if somebody offered you $300 million for your business, you would sell tomorrow. That is absolutely not the case. That's gone.

That's all changed. I was like, what is the number today? I honestly, I don't think, we have a specific number in mind. Honestly, Mackey, we really don't. And because, like, right now, Siff and I are having so much fun running the business, like, we're not even thinking about studying the business. We're thinking of what can we do to run this business forever? Because we're having so much fun running it. Our employees are having so much fun running it. Like, they're just saying that, guys, I am sad for the day you sell this business because, like,

I don't know how it's going to be once you sell it. And so for us, we just want to run this thing for as long as possible, as long as it grows super fast. And maybe you open different business lines with array. I don't know because the array stands for solving an array of different problems. Is that what it means? Yeah, that's what it means. Like we're going to solve an array of different things. And so it's been always positioned and named after being an infinity business.

And so maybe we'll keep running it forever. Yeah, if we can, like, I mean, it's funny because sometimes we'll have conversations about like, I don't know, like we have like certain offers or whatever, like conversations on the table. And Nish and I will discuss it and I'm like, oh, Nish, like, I really don't even want to talk about that right now because I just, I want to be in it right now.

Like I love every day. I wake up every day and I have my dream job. So, so does he. And I feel like we can optimize certain things to like the other day. I was doing an exercise where I was like, okay, like, if I were to sell the business, what are the things that I really want? Like, why would I even do this? And so I was distilling it down and I was like, oh, okay.

So what I'm looking for is like a little bit more freedom with my time and like being able to like, I don't know, like travel to X, X, place, right? I'm like, I can actually do that right now. I just have to like implement more systems. And so for for me, it's about finding those systems and like still continuing to live in the now because I have my dream job. I was going to say like part of the dream is that you guys get to work together. Like you guys are, you spend more time at work than you do technically with your family, right? And I think that's one of the beautiful things I love about my now relationship. You guys have done this for the last five years and you want to for the foreseeable future. What are the boundaries that you think are an absolute non-negotiable to be able to have

your dream job for this long together? Honestly, I think that you got to really find flow in business where it doesn't carry into your whole life. Because the bigger the business gets, the more people that we have to help us through really difficult situations, which allows us to be in more of a steady state period as opposed to a consistently high stress period. Yeah, like do you guys still do your like Sunday parasympathetic days? I do.

Okay, can you explain what that is? Okay, so basically, okay, this is for. anyone who feels the need to like constantly be productive, I had to shift my mindset to realize that being unproductive is the productive thing for my nervous system specifically. Okay. So I'm someone just in general, I deal with like low HRV and an elevated resting heart rate. I just have like a health situation going on there. And so this had gone to the point where I was just like fatigued. And so I was like, okay, like every Sunday, once a week, I want to do a parasympathetic day, which is things that I do. Like, it's like a day that's like dedicated to nourishing my nervous system.

So I will do things that aren't like, I don't know, they don't like overwhelm or excite me. You know, so it's things like listening to like very calm jazz music, going to get acupuncture, you know, doing things that'll nourish me like long walks. Nothing like high intensity. I don't like to do anything social on Sundays. I will actually like say no to plan specifically on a Sunday because otherwise there were, weeks where I'd go and it was like week after week, I mean, not only would I have work and being around people 24-7 during the weekdays, but then also on a Saturday and a Sunday. And so that just takes a toll on you. And I start to notice this even, for example, like if we have people visiting

and it's like weeks of that, right, like whether it's like team members coming from like different cities or our families or friends visiting, whatever it is, if it's weeks and weeks of me not having any time to myself, I feel myself like more agitated and irritable, irritable and like just more heightened. And I feel like that doesn't serve me from what I'm supposed to do at work. One of the things I've always wondered about you specifically SIF because I sometimes like want to just like be on the couch and shopping revolve. And then that feels like work. Because I'm like, now your image is a part of your personal brand. And like then you're creating affiliate links. And it just like turns it snowballs because there's this blurred line between.

like enjoyment of hobbies and then just like enjoyment for your your life and then there's like now this is kind of becoming a job do you feel that same sense of blend of boundaries at all or is like part it because like your image your look your shopping is like something that people aspire towards is that something you're doing on Sundays or that is like a block in your calendar on like a Monday or Wednesday be like I need to plan my outfits for these events and I'm gonna shopping all day every day whenever I look over her laptop it It's always my three says open. Always.

I do you know what my job is open. He sees the critics. Or why is that open? Something is always open. No, but I'm serious because don't you feel this blended, like personal image into, like, your career now? So, okay, for me, my creative kind of release is fashion. Okay.

It's just fun for me. So I will, like, sit at night and scroll on Pinterest. Like, it's just fun for me. It's like what I do to turn my brain off. So it doesn't feel like work to me. I will say when it starts to feel like that, I'm like, this is just like, I don't like it. So as an example, we were going to Coachella and the amount of pressure women put on themselves. Oh my God.

It's actually out of control. Yeah. So then I was like, I'm actually not going to buy anything for this. I'm going to buy, I'm going to have everything from my closet. I like put like a very strict kind of budget. on myself of like what I was allowed to spend on. And it was like, I think my budget was like $200. Yeah.

Okay. Because I didn't, when you have too much out there where it's like, everything's accessible, then you're, it, you can spend hours. Yeah. And days. Who the hell cares? Yeah. It's a music festival.

You know what I mean? Like it doesn't matter. And so that's, that was an example of where I had initially started to put so much pressure on myself and I was like, fuck this. Absolutely not. This is like a stupid waste of my time. And so then, you know, I think for me when it's fun, it's fun. And then if I don't,

don't want to do it, I just don't do it. Like it's exactly what Nish said. We're both people who, I don't know, like if it's not fun for us, we're not going to do it. Thankfully, this is something that's fun for me. And there are weeks. Like, of course, like I was going through, actually, like, what was it, like two weeks ago where I was feeling really like, unmotivated to get dressed. And so I was like, okay, this is the week where I'm just doing comfy cozies. And so it's like sweaters and pants. Like I, thankfully, I've also built my wardrobe in a way that I don't have to use a ton of brain cells to get dressed. And there's periods of time where I'm like very inspired to shop and, you know, like have like really crazy looks that I put together.

Other times where I just rely on the basics that I have in my wardrobe. But short answer is that it's just fun for me for the most part. And so, yeah. So you're kind of like guilty pleasure, not guilty pleasure, but like what you like to spend your money on that you've earned is like fashion and clothes. And like that's fun for you. Oh my God. It's the most fun for me. Nish, what is the thing that you enjoy spending money on that you have earned the right?

the right to do. Same. Look at his outfit. Do you know, we'll go. He's putting you on blast and I'm like, oh my God. We, listen, we were in Paris. Nish was, to the shopping got to a point for Nish where I was like, I would like to go to a museum, in fact. Like, what are we doing?

I was like, we need to leave. I was like, I have not had a meal. No, it's actually really bad. So fashion is your vice too. I really love it. Okay. And we bond on it. Like, it's so fun.

Like, it's, you know, we. We both love it. I'm heavily inspired by fashion. Really, really inspired. Do you think that your relationship with money has shifted a lot since you started the business to where you guys are at today? Yeah, for sure. I mean, definitely. But, you know, more importantly, I think I've always thought about business, money and business separately than money in personal life.

Because, like, money in business is just like a number, but money in personal life is emotional. But ever since... Wait, what do you mean by that? So money to me in business is like spend a dollar to get more. more than a dollar out of it. Yeah, it's a tool. It's a tool. Yeah.

And so, you know, even when it's like $100 million, and I'm like, we're spending very frequently like millions of dollars every month, it doesn't feel like anything. It's like, okay, yeah. You're not like nervous to press like wire the money. Yes, exactly. Yeah, why are the money? Because like you're going to get more than that.

It's well thought out. Yeah. It's very well thought out. It's all very systematic kind of thing. But in personal life, at least back in the day, it was such a like lack mindset around money, which would just be like you must save more as opposed to make more. So that's obviously been a really big shift because now the limit to how much money we think we can make is just like unlimited.

And so you just start operating personal life in that sense as well. But also the way you systemize money in the way that like how it goes out, how it comes in, having checks and balances around that kind of stuff, I just implement the same thing in my personal life. And so making purchases is not, is very mathematical. And so the whole operations of money, whether it's business or personal, is so mathematical that it doesn't even, like, I don't even think about it emotionally anymore. So if I want something, it becomes like a math equation, not like, can I, like, should I get it or not? Yeah. It's not emotional at all.

So you guys trust your gut with products and like where the trends are, but with money and purchases, it's like not your gut at all. It's like, does this make sense for us? Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I think like this is obviously very basic and I'm sure your listener is given who you are. I mean, you teach this, but I think being responsible with what you're doing with your finances and also if you're someone who doesn't, it doesn't come inherently to you. Like for me, personal finances was not something that was a strong suit for a really long time, but I kind of

made it fun for myself. And so now, like putting money away into like my investments is something that I really look forward to the same way that I'm excited to put money into like fashion, right? So I think once you take care of that, it's like, do I want to buy this sweater? Do I have like, you know, money that I, fuck you money that I can spend on a sweater. Yes, get the sweater. Yeah. I think it's so interesting because I love talking to people like you who have prioritized different aspects of what you spend money on at different times in your life. Like I think I've been there with you guys through like not even having a car in L.A. To like now being able, it was like such a cool thing to just quickly highlight for both of them

was like when I first moved to L.A., so did they. They didn't have a car for like a bunch of reasons. but we would like go for walks and I would drive to you and then getting to see like Nish give you the most bawling Rangerover on your birthday was like the coolest 360 degree because it's like this happens for everyone that puts their head down and does the work and I think so many people like want to be at the end state already because that's where like you think is the funnest part right you have fuck you money you can do it what you want but I think you guys have always had this principle of like just enjoying the process and I think that's why the money has started to flow to you.

So I guess as you think about the next five years, what do you feel like that sense of funness is for you now that you do have a bit more in your pockets to go and enjoy? Honestly, it's really interesting, Maggie, because for me, I like buying, like, big things. I actually don't get excited by, like, small things that, like, even in fashion stuff, even if jacket is, like, really expensive, like, it doesn't excite me to buy that kind of stuff. But for me, like, I would, like, love to own a hotel as an example. Wow.

Okay. Like, I would love to own a hotel. I would love to own a, I don't know, a car company. Yeah. Like, just like things like that. Okay. Where, you know, for example, let's say Sif and I are traveling to Europe. Then the hotel chain has, like, something in the Alps, something here, something in Italy.

Yeah. So, like, I really want the kind of wealth where we can build things like that. Yeah. Where, like, it allows us to grow our lifestyle, but also we can work through. through it. Yeah. Like, I really like mixing what I like to do in life with work. Yeah. So that'd be really cool. Let me ask you a question about that. Do you guys think that, so this is often what I hear with, especially co-founders that are not dating, that when they start something together, it's very hard to independently go off and find, like, their own personal things that they love.

Do you guys think that, like, there are going to be things that you guys do separately? Or do you guys think that inherently things will always be overlapped? I think we're always going to have businesses together. Yeah. That's that's been the decision that like I mean, I feel like I'll speak for myself. I hope he feels the same way. But I can't imagine a better co-founder than Nish. And I think it's so much more fulfilling to go through this with him. And so there's nothing more exciting for me than to get to share like the ups and downs of being a founder. And all the spillover effect that that has on your life with my partner. Like he understands me on such a deep, like intimate level that I think only someone who

has insight into like what's going on in your business understands. And so for us to be able to share that together. And I don't know, like reap the benefits. And then also the downsides is I think so special. I think it's strengthened our marriage. And I hope that I can do this with him for the rest of my life. Yeah. Okay.

On that note, I am going to do some fun rapid fire because you guys are just so working inspiring and you're gonna have to come on for a round two. Okay, um, you can only pick one for the rest of your life. Coffee, cocktail, matcha. Coffee. Cocktail. What are your orders? Americano with cinnamon. See, okay, so if the people that die on the hill for a black fucking coffee, like, I can't. I'm sorry. Like, are you kidding me? It's so good. Oh my God. Are you joking right now? You know this about me. What do you mean? That is so insane. Okay, what's your cocktail order? I just want a dirty martini. Okay. Oh, I love that. I wouldn't expect that for you. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you'd be such like a whiskey guy or something.

You do love an old fashion, though. It's not on my top three at all. Okay. Night in or out? Night out for sure. Same. Love that for you guys. Outsource or higher internally? Higher internally.

Okay. A meeting or solo work? Meeting. Solo work. Wellness or fashion for the rest of your life. You can only have one interest. Okay. I need clarification.

What do you mean wellness or fashion? No, no, no. Like, am I like completely unwell? Like I have... Like, no, no, no, no, more, like, guilty pleasures. Like, you can't be, like, constantly going to work out classes, like, doing new supplements, whatever. Like, it's, like, your- Can I work out?

Yeah. But, like, what is, like, your passion and hobby is, like, fashion or wellness? Being a, you're a wellness girlie that is also a fashion girl, like, pick one. This episode is brought to you by Tell Us Online Security. Oh, tax season is the worst. You mean hack season? Sorry, what? Yeah, cybercriminals love tax forms.

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I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, well, wellness as well just because I wouldn't be well without how would I be well and well enough to wear the fashion here people are getting our argument on screen I can't wait to go on this eventually with you guys so ski vacation or beach ski vacation for me ski okay we have to go now that can't go to my life yeah yeah who is your favorite comfort creator not for a ray inspo but like sift like sunday parasympathetic day who are you typing into your search bar on TikTok. Okay. I have two. Okay. They're very different. Okay. One is this chef. His, I think his name's Harrison Webb. Okay. He's so funny. Okay. So he'll like do things like I found the worst pizza restaurant in London.

And it is like I will be crying. It's like comedy food reviews. It is so funny. Okay. So I love him. I think his handle is Harrison Webb. And then I also love Tamara Cullenich. I don't know. She's fashion. UK? She's, it lives in Milan. Oh, yeah, yeah.

So it's like heavy, heavy fashion. So both of those. It's like very niche, like Hermes content. Okay. Just like for the girls. So I would say like those are my two. And like they're like so different. Love it.

So good. Okay. It's so hard for me. Like can do NBA highlights count? Like that's what I watch. Okay. You don't have comfort craters. No, I really don't.

No. Your thing is the crime. The bad guy gets caught. Oh, like crime junkies is your vibe? No, it's like so specific. Wait. No, it's just like, I love watching bad guys get caught on YouTube. Oh my God, so does my, like, boyfriend's brother.

Like yesterday we were celebrating his mom's 80th birthday, and he has his phone in front of him. He's like, I'm just watching a police chase. Yeah. No, and it'll be like the titles like actually kill me, okay? So it's like, I don't know. Robert gets what he deserves. Oh, my God. I can't.

I like see it and I'm like crying laughing because I'm like literally what is this? That is no a comfort creator. That's really comforting naturally. Hermes or Chanel? Hermes. Armaz. Okay. Yeah.

You guys, Siff and Nish, thank you so much for coming on Hot Smart Ridge. I'm just like so enlightened right now. I always think about how I feel when I leave people and I always feel like I'm leaving the top floor of my house, even though ironically we're in the basement. Like light and inspired. and you guys are so refreshing to just be so honest and open. And I can't thank you enough. It's been so cool to be in your life watching this journey from so long ago and to see where you guys are at and where you guys are taking it.

I'm just like so honored you shared it with my community. They love you. So where can they find you guys if they're not already following and listening to your podcast and like doing all the things? Array on Instagram, TikTok, array.com. I'm Sif Heider. My podcast is the Dream Bigger podcast. It's a weekly ritual, everyone.

It's really good. And I'm just plenty of niche. Plenty of niche. Are you public now? I'm always public. I thought you were private for a bit. No, no, no. Okay.

Well, and I love how you're such an entrepreneur because you literally plugged your business first, just to be clear. And then is there a giveaway that we can do with Array? Yeah, 100%. Okay, perfect. And what date is your podcast come out every week, Seth? Every Tuesday. So, guys, every Tuesday you're going to listen to Dream Bigger.

Every Wednesday you're going to listen to Hot Smart Rich. Please rate review both of our podcasts. And thank you guys so much again. I love you so much. I'm so glad you started a podcast. This was necessary. It was good. one of the best podcasts I've been on.

I love you. Thank you. Bye.