Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Tower 28’s Amy Liu: From Stay-At-Home Mom to Best-Selling Sephora Powerhouse at 40 - How She Bet On Herself and Won

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Amy Liu, founder and CEO of Tower 28 Beauty, is redefining what it means to bet on yourself, build quietly, and scale authentically in the beauty industry. From quitting her corporate job and taking a four-year hiatus to launching one of Sephora’s most successful clean beauty brands at 40, Amy’s story is one of resilience, vision, and choosing power on her own terms. She opens up about the money dynamics in her marriage, the shift when her husband became CFO of her company, and how she gained the freedom to take risks. She shares why she’s never relied on celebrity partners, the importance of building a brand that feels safe without being boring, and what it means to create products that empower people with sensitive skin to finally feel included in mainstream beauty. From leaving her corporate job and fighting against the naysayers, to the messy middle of running a fast-growing team, to the moments that nearly broke her, this is Amy Liu like you’ve never heard her before. What you’ll learn in this conversation: Why betting on yourself doesn’t have an age limit (Amy launched at 40) The truth about overnight success (23 years in the making) How money and power dynamics shift in marriage when women lead Why Tower 28 chose not to rely on celebrity endorsements The story behind Tower 28’s hero products and community-driven growth The role of eczema and authenticity in shaping Amy’s brand and mission How to build a company that’s both profitable and culturally relevant Why women can “have it all” — but not all at once This is the episode every entrepreneur, founder, and creative needs to hear. ⸻ This episode is sponsored by:⁠⁠ - Recharge - get 90 days free - https://getrecharge.com/lp3/hot-smart-rich/ Subscriptions aren’t just about repeat orders - they’re about building real relationships. And that’s where Recharge comes in. They’re the subscription platform behind the brands you know and love - think Chamberlain Coffee, quip, Blueland, Bird & Be - and over 100 million subscribers worldwide. Recharge takes the headache out of retention with seamless subscription experiences, powerful analytics, and tools that help brands go beyond the moment to keep customers coming back. ⁠⸻ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ If you like what you hear, rate, review, and subscribe to Hot Smart Rich, the podcast supporting women who own their worth — in business, wealth, and life. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe on YouTube⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⸻ 💌Own your worth — and build the life you want. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter, the no-BS guide to startup life, consumer brands, and becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self, written by Maggie Sellers. Join 250,000+ women building wealth, confidence, and community on their own terms. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe here⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⸻ Become an HSR Angel in the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Global HSR WhatsApp⁠⁠⁠⁠ channel⁠! ⸻ Follow Maggie: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tiktok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Amy Lou, are you ready to get hots for rich? I am so excited that you're here in this fabulous outfit. Do you wear this every single day? No. I was just on a panel this morning. I feel like I've seen so many amazing interviews of you telling the story of Tower 28.

But I haven't felt like someone has gotten to the soul of who Amy Lou is. and I'm so excited to hopefully get to that today with you. Me too. I really wanted to start with what your childhood best friend might say about you. Oh, so that's a little bit of a tough question to ask because we moved around so much as a kid. I think I counted and I went to like, I think between the time I was, you know, from preschool to sixth grade, I think I went to 10 different schools. So we moved a lot of times. So I actually don't have a childhood best friend.

friend unless you count from like starting from sixth grade. Okay. So, and actually I just saw my friend from six, seventh grade, um, this past weekend. And what would I, what would she say about me? I think she would say I am exactly the way she expected me to be. Which is what? For people that are just getting to know you. Which is, I think I've always been outgoing.

I think I've always been ambitious. I think I've always been entrepreneurial in my own way. But I also am someone who really cares about. the people around me and really cares about how I get there in the journey. Do you think that as you've become more successful, that it's harder to make friends now, that you have more of a history? Oh, that's so interesting. I feel like I've done a pretty good job of keeping my friends. And what I mean by that is, so I've never really been part of a click. I remember when I was a kid, I used to watch shows like friends, right? And I used to wonder, like, why don't I have one group of friends

that are the same friends over and over again? But the truth. is I'm kind of someone who's, I'm not great at like fake friendship. So I'm not great at being part of a group if I don't actually have true friendship with all of the people. And it's actually pretty rare, I think, to have that with everyone. And so instead, I think I end up collecting like a collection of friends, but not having, but for instance, it's a lot harder for me to, like, I just celebrated my, and my 47th birthday this year. Happy birthday. Thank you. And when I decided to throw myself a party, which I really never do anything like that. And it was so hard for me to figure out who to invite because I don't have a group of friends where everybody is friends with each other,

but because I've been in L.A. for a long time, I think they've all met each other over different events and things like that. So I think I've had a collection of friends over time, whether it's through beauty, which I've been in the industry for 23 years. So I have a lot of friends from beauty, whether it is college, et cetera, living in L.A., I think I've collected friends. But to answer your question about if it's harder to make friends as you get older, I think it is. And I think it's also, actually I heard Mel Robbins say this recently. She said that like the average person has a new kind of set of friends every seven years. And I was like, oh, that kind of makes sense too, because we are such different people and in such different stages of our lives at different

points. Yeah. I think I've like collected a few from every phase of my life as opposed to like just starting completely anew. Yeah. Do you remember the first like female founder friendship that you made? because I think a lot of the time we have these real friends that are from outside of the industry, and then we have deal friends. And I think it's really hard to identify who is going to be someone that's a deal friend versus a real friend. Do you remember the first female founder that you made that was maybe a deal friend to start, but has turned into a real friend? So funny, you asked me that because I was just thinking about that this weekend.

I was with Alison Ellsworth from Poppy. And we were in Columbus doing Forbes 30 under 30 together. And we were having dinner and we were saying, how we met during COVID when like through, you know, a Zoom initially. And then we did like a FaceTime. And then we did Alive. Remember that when that was a whole thing during COVID. I wish to forget.

But yeah, yeah. We had both kind of started our businesses right around the same time. And an investor introduced us. And I have a lot of friends in the industry and I have a lot of like specifically beauty. But to make a friend who was outside of beauty feels even a little bit different, right? because you're not, you're truly not competitive with each other. You're like, there's nothing to like trade information about. And like there's something about that that felt really organic that I think, you know,

I love my friends and beauty, but there is still always that little bit of like, am I not supposed to tell you this or should I, you know what I mean? Just a tiny bit, even though I really do believe in collaboration of her competition. Yeah. Allison was actually going to be one of the people I asked about because you guys just did a club between Poppy and Tower 28. You guys were obviously friends first. You posted this photo on April 3rd.

fool's day that was like a prank. Was that the initiation of the collaboration or was that part of this marketing strategy where you were like, this is introducing this, but we've been planning this for so long. We've been planning it for longer than that. So it takes like, you know, 12 to 18 months to bring any product to life. And so we've been planning it for some time. I don't know if a lot of people know this about Allison, but she actually has eczema. And specifically she gets it like on our face and her eyelids and things like that. And so it was always just this really natural thing that we did something together. And so we've been planning it. And then we got to like April Fools and we were like, honestly, it was so organic. I texted her. It's like, we don't know what

we're doing. Or do you know what you're doing. We're like, let's do something together. And I think that's actually the beauty of what a lot of friendship is, is when you can do business with someone that you like and you care about and that you can like trade ideas really fast and make things happen. Is she someone that you call when shit just hits the fan? Or do you have like a challenge network or other people that you go to where you're like, I just need help. I have a whole network and it's like a whole, you know, and I think as everybody should that is a founder or even just as a person, every person should have almost like their own board of advisors. And then separate from the female founder network, I actually joined when we talked about this Tokyo not too long ago. And I think that's been really helpful too to have a group of people who are independent of even the industry that you're in. But yeah, I have a number of people, Alison McNamara, we just talked about is kind of one of the people I would call, SIF is someone I would call too. So we've got, I've got like a, a, a list. That's amazing. I love that there's like, Deepika. So many people that have been on the podcast. I feel like I have like a really good

network of people that are actually like, to your point, they're really competitive. They believe in themselves. So they have almost like more competitiveness with themselves. But they're just like down to help the cause and down to help people through this, which I'm obsessed with, which is kind of the spirit of collaborations and partnerships, which you're an expert at. You guys just also partnered with Athlos, which is the women's only professional track and field series. What do you think it is right now about beauty and women's sports? So we did a social listening study recently where we had someone come in and literally just scrub the entire internet for like social comments, for reviews, for anything that we could to try to understand who our customer is. And what we found is that we over index in people who have acne, who are Latin and specifically who play sports.

And our athletes work out anything like that. And so for us, we were like, okay, it's our spray. So our SOS spray is this product that people love using after they work out because sweat sits on your skin. Sweat is a toxin. It can create bacteria and like, you know, a junky stuff when it's sitting on your skin if you don't have the time to go wash your face immediately. And so naturally, that's something that organically we've seen a lot of whether it's in TikTok or just like if you go to the gym, we did a partnership with Solid Core. And so that was really a part of it. And I think the best collaborations are the ones that speak to the audience in a way that feel really organic.

Have you guys ever done a collab like Poppy just did with like that Love Island Star where it's like a product. A Maya papaya. Like is that, is that something you guys have done? Well, the only product person when we've done is Tony Bravo. Okay. You know who she is. She's an influencer creator. And we, she literally came into our office one day.

We were showing her a preview of our blushes. And she was like, that's cool. But like, I feel like you're missing two shades. And we were like, what are we missing? And she started pulling things out of her bag and showing us. And we were like, oh, okay, well, if you feel it strongly about it, should we just do this with you? And that was the first time we've ever done a product collab with a person. If you had to tomorrow pick anyone out of the pop culture ether to figure out who you wanted to do a collab with, who would it be?

I mean, this is so, I feel like basic, but it would be Taylor Swift. I mean, it could it not be anybody else, like, especially with her new life of a show girl. I think she was talking about orange. And my whole team was like, oh my gosh, this is our moment. all of her products have like this beautiful orange in them. But she's just so iconic. You guys have not brought in a celebrity partner, which I feel like a lot of beauty brands have,

have tried to do. Was that super intentional? I mean, really we haven't done paid influencer. I really want to build up the organic community first and understand who really loves our products. We have had the luck of having people like Haley Bieber's talked about us. Chloe Kardashians talked about us,

like organically. And I think that's amazing. And would we, I mean, honestly, I've gone to Haley and said, like, hey, do you want to be an advisor? I don't know if she's allowed to. Yeah, not now. Not maybe not now, but she said she was interested. I don't know. Anyway, so we have done that kind of thing where we've gone to people and paid them for their advice.

Katie Jane Hughes, for instance, as a makeup artist who we've given equity to an exchange for being an advisor for us. But we haven't done like paid partnerships in that sense. We would. I would consider it if it was truly authentic. Like I've also had celebrities come to me and say, I'd like to be your creative, your chief creative officer. And I'm like, I've never seen you post or talk about us. Yeah.

I would, like if you don't truly love it, like, why would we do it? Totally. I feel like you have such a clear vision of Tower 28, where you came from, where you're going. For you personally, as the brand founder, was it intentional to build your personal brand very much as like a founder persona and not really bringing in like your personal life into that or walk me? through that. I guess you talk about eczema and like your skin journey, but while you were deciding what you would talk about and what you wouldn't, how did you start thinking about that? I don't know if I can tell you it was so intentional. I think it was almost more a product of the fact that I'm 47 years old. I didn't come into this with a platform of influence. The age thing

actually maybe is not even relevant because there's a lot of people who are any age that are creators. I just don't think that's the way I grew up in the world. I'm not an expert in terms of being, I'm not an esthetician, I'm not a makeup artist. I think my expertise was really like I was a person working on a team in the industry, right? Like I feel like I'm much more akin to being someone more similar to someone on my team than I am to being a celebrity or any type of an expert. And so for me, I was kind of felt like that wasn't my, my strength necessarily. I was really good at being like a number two. And it actually took me a while to figure out what my voice was. I felt like I was really good at telling someone else's story. And so when it came time to

turn it around on myself, I was like, oh, I don't know if I know how to do that. And to be honest with you, it wasn't until we started doing desk sides with editors and talking about the brand. And they were like, okay, you guys are eczema safe, whatever. Like, why? Why is this important to you? And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I have eczema. And they were like, why didn't you tell us that? And that was when I realized, oh, people actually care about like the story behind the story. And I started talking about it more. But I also don't want my entire life to be creating content. It's not what I think I'm good at. I think when you are a founder, right, you have to think so much about where and how you spend

your time. And for me, that is just not my highest and best use. I think a lot of people listening to this will really resonate with what you said even at the beginning where you were like, my childhood best friend would say that I'm entrepreneurial and a leader and all these things. But it took you until you were 40 to actually bet on yourself. Looking back, do you think that was the perfect moment? to do it. Yeah, explain. Absolutely. And a lot of times people say to me, what's it like to have an

overnight success? And I'm like, overnight success. I've been doing this for 23 years at this point. I've been in the same industry and working in this job to some extent. But I'm so glad it happened when it did because I had the chance to, I had my kids, I had time to learn on someone else's time. I have the ability to kind of understand the success and to appreciate it. And then I think also I've seen enough, whether it was my own mistakes or other people's to. to understand that things kind of have an up and a down to them too. So I think that I've just been able to kind of weather the storm a little bit more. I guess it's kind of like being, I don't know, like a child celebrity.

Like I think that would be really hard to do because then what do you do next? Where I'm like, instead, I feel like this is almost like the pinnacle of my career. Totally. I feel like even yesterday I got like a horrible hate comment about something so ridiculous. And the 25 year old me would have like not been able to handle that, right? and the 33-year-old me is like laughing and being like, oh my God, that's so sad for that person. But I think when you aren't at that age and you haven't gone through that life experience, it's so hard to like, you don't know what you don't know, right?

And nothing teaches us like experience. Exactly. And something, it doesn't matter. Age to your point, like you can be younger, but you have had experience. Exactly. When you worked in the beauty industry pre-Tower 28, did you ever take off a significant period of time to have your children? Or were you always just taking off like the minimum mat leave? Yeah.

That's funny. I haven't really talked about this very much. I took a four-year hiatus from working full-time. And it was at the time, I would say it was probably one of the hardest things I had ever done, which seems silly. But yet it was such a big part of my identity. Working was such a big part of my identity. And basically I got to the point where my job, where I was just, I was unhappy at work. I felt like I was doing a lot of things and not doing anything really well. And I think that's the point that you're like, you just feel haggard. You're like, working all day. I came home and then I was like taking care of doing the second shift, which I think a lot of women do, and then putting my kids to bed and then working again and then waking up and doing it all over. And I just, I was tired and I wasn't, I wasn't happy. And I think it was to the point where actually, like, I hadn't even talked about it that much because I was so like on this hamster wheel. And then one day, my, I told my husband and he was like, why don't you quit? And I was like, that's an option. Like, I didn't, like, we were not wealthy, but he was, he's always been super frugal. He made sure we had saved a lot of money. We always

lived beneath their means. And he was like, this is what it's for. Like, we have fucking money for a reason. Like, get out of there. Why are you unhappy? And I literally quit the next day. And I was like, but then I quit and I was panicked and I called my therapist. I was like, what do I do? I felt like I experienced a death, quite honestly. Like, that sounds so dramatic. It's not. It really felt so sad to me at the time. They had like a big going away party for me. And I felt like I was, and it was the same time that my kids were starting, my eldest was starting kindergarten. And there's this thing we do in society where we meet people. And the first thing we say is like, hi, my name is Amy, what do you do or whatever? You know, people asked me. And I was like,

well, do you want to know what I used to do? And it felt so like my identity was really in question. And it's so interesting because now, even as a founder, like so many founders I know, their work is their identity. And I would say to some extent, I have a little bit of that too, but I'm trying really hard. I mean, there's a reason why this is not Amy Lou Cosmetics, right? Like, that was never the intention. And I do at some point hope that my brand is bigger than me. Like, I don't think that I'm the, am I the right person to be managing this brand when we have like hundreds of employees?

I don't know that I am. And I want something bigger for it than I think I will be. But I do. I think a lot about that time. and how restorative those years were for me. I ended up having my third child during that time. We bought our first home and fully remodeled it. And I think that gave me a lot of confidence. Because I was like, I didn't have a, you know, I used a contractor, but I didn't have a designer. And I just, I had to figure it out. It was like this thing that you could actually physically see and be like, wait, I did that. I chose every handle.

I chose every doorstop. I chose, you know, everything. There was something really incredible about that experience where I think, If I hadn't had that and almost like tried on being a stay-at-home mom a little bit, I don't know if I could be doing what I'm doing. Subscriptions aren't just about repeat orders. They're about building real lasting relationships. And that's where recharge comes in. They're the subscription platform powering the brands you know and love. Chamberlain Coffee, Blueland, Bird and B,

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To claim this incredible offer of 90 days free, click the link in the show notes. It's so empowering to hear that for someone like me who like I, previous to meeting my husband was like, I don't even know honestly if I was ever going to get married. And actually, shockingly, my dad actually said that to my now husband when he asked for my permission to get married. He was like, I genuinely didn't know if Maggie would find someone because she's just a lot, which I am. But like to hear that in the best way.

But like I think for women that have poured their entire identity into something, it's so comforting to see these incredible women that have gone on to do such amazing things. Like you, Amy Griffin, who took off 10 years to have her children and now runs G9 Ventures and like has a bestselling book. I think it's so important to talk about stories like that because oftentimes you think about having kids and taking off time. And inevitably, the relationship. that you have with money, with your husband, with your partner will change. And we had a really

interesting conversation the other day where you talked to me a little bit about like, you know, when you weren't working and you were spending money and it was like the value that was placed on that by your husband. And then now the rule is being reversed. I would love for you to repeat that for people listening that might want to try to be in a situation like that or might be wanting to go back to the workforce. I mean, so first of all, I think that the reason why it's so hard to take time off is because we so fear what happens on the other side of it. And I actually, I mean, I do know women who've had a really hard time getting back into the workforce because maybe the world has changed and your skills are different than the ones that are needed in the workforce. So I think

it's a really, it's a, it's a real thing. I think if you do it, you have to keep your toe in the water. And I always did. I always consulted. I kept working the whole time. I just didn't work full time. Yeah. And I think that made a huge difference for me. I didn't know that on the other side of it, I was going to start my own business, right? But I think that's important. The other thing that I think you're mentioning, so my husband is maybe the nicest man in the world, and he is so generous,

and he is not someone who is trying to restrict me. However, he has very different values than I do when it comes to money, meaning he is maybe the cheapest man alive and so frugal. He's generous with other people, but so frugal with himself, and by extension, me. Or at least that's how I felt.

And I think the thing that was really hard about that was like, I mean, listen, like I like to get my nails done. It's like a small thing that I've always enjoyed. And it makes me feel clean. And especially when the kids are like, literally when the kids are small and you're like, I'm not really doing that much. I was working virtually. I was doing drop-offs and pickups and I'm not doing anything glamorous. I had a lot of guilt around that. I was like, why do I need to keep doing my nails and getting them done?

Why can't I do them on my own or whatever? And I remember I would sometimes like honestly like I would I would lie. My husband would be like, oh, where are you going? I'm like, oh, I'm going to go to the grocery store. And I would really go and get my nails done. And he didn't do anything or say anything to make me feel like I had to do that. But I think it's because I was worried about like the judgment of something that he didn't value that I was spending money on. And I think for women, it's really important to be able to like have the agency to spend money on the things that they want to.

that's like something that's making me happy. And I, at the time, listen, I was still contributing to the household. I was taking care of the kids. I was doing all of the domestic house life. And I think that's really an important thing. But like you have to have those conversations up front with your partner and be clear about what it looks like. Now I think money can feel like power in any relationship, whether or not even if you have a husband like mine who's super nice and like would not, if I had asked him, he never would have said like, don't do it. But I think for me, I just knew we had a different sense of values.

Because if he's not willing to spend money on himself, you're like, am I allowed to spend money on myself? And so I don't know, it was really important to me that, like, I make money. I wanted to be able to send us on vacation. I wanted to be able to send my kids to college. We used to go to dinner with our families. And I remember everyone would stand up and we would pay for dinner. And everyone would look at Victor and say, thank you for dinner. And I'd be like, I'm here too.

Yeah. For sure. It's like, it's so crazy. when it's like the two of you, but people just make an assumption that it's the man that's doing it. Totally. And now the crazy thing is I started Tower 28 and he joined three and a half years in. And so he very clearly joined a business I started and he works for me as our CFO. And he's actually the one who's much more clear about it than I am. Like he tells everybody I work for my wife. Like I joined her company. He's super deferential when it comes to that. And I don't think there's that many men who could do what he's doing. that are just willing to take like the backseat and really just be so supportive. But I think there's been something so beautiful about that and it's made us closer because there's been a real baton pass.

And he gets it. Like he's like, you are now the breadwinner. You're the one that we need to make sure, like, has a clear mind. Like he takes, he's taken over on the kid's side of things. So he does all of the kids scheduling. He does all of the kids. He's just picked up so much on that side of things. And I think there's a.

mutual respect that happens when that's created where like he'll say things sometimes like, oh, this kid's got, it's so hard. And I'm like, oh, is it? Tell me about it. It's just like we have a business. We have a family. And those are both really important things to us. And in the end, marriage at its best as a partnership. How do you feel like you with that dynamic are able to still enter into your feminine self? Because I think for me, in previous relationships, like I have very much like lead and been the one that's like this is what we're doing. And at times it's exhausting, right? Because like you are still the mom. And even if your husband is incredible, it's like even just the bond you have with your kids, like they almost like want their mom. So I guess,

oh for sure. Is there is there a way that you've been able to turn off that like powerhouse self and still be in feminine with your husband? I mean, I'm wondering what my husband was saying. He would probably say you could probably get a little bit better at this. there's like a consciousness that you have to have around your relationship at all times. And like, I'll be the first to say, like, we've gone to therapy a few times since. And we've had the same therapist since before we got married. So it's been 18 years with the same therapist. It's actually some of the best advice I would give to anybody to have someone that you can check in with at any point.

If you're just like facing a tough patch is, and they know your story is like incredibly helpful. Yeah. And like literally I've said to him, it's kind of like, if I, he came into a marriage where I already had a kid, like, does he love my kid as much as I love this kid? I'm not saying that's not possible, but sometimes I'm like, I don't know if it's the same thing. Like, he doesn't like bleed Tower 28 the way I do, but at the same time, I know what's in it for him. No one's incentives are better aligned and he also, I know how much he loves me and he supports me. So to get to your question about the feminine side, I think.

I could definitely work on it. I think there is also something. But is that even important to you right now? It's important to me that I have a good relationship with my husband. It's actually the thing that I think my husband and my family, like when people are like, oh my God, Tower 28, I'm like, the thing that you should be really impressed by, honestly, is my family. To be married for 18 years, that's not the impressive.

We've been together for 25. To be married for this long, that is not the impressive thing. The impressive thing is that you can be married that long and to be happy and to like be able to wake up every morning. We wake up every morning and we do a one hour walk together every morning and we talk, right? And I think he's like the first person I call when anything happens. We actually, I think, have a great relationship, but even a great relationship doesn't mean there's not bumps in the road and that it's not, you know, hard at times. I think the thing that's really important to me is that like our kids can see that we like care and that we try and that we still like enjoy each other's

company. And I think the thing that is most important in relationships is respect. And we both really respect each other. And that is irrespective of who is a breadwinner. I think it's so important. And this is why I love to talk about relationships on the show because it is so related to business. It's like the person you decide to make your husband or wife or partner or whatever is literally the most important business, financial decision you will ever make. I say this all the time. I always like everybody. And actually a girl in my team when she got married, she was like, I've known her forever. And she was like, you literally told me this when I was like so young that it's the one person you get to choose as your family. Literally. Every other person, even your kids, you don't get to

meet them beforehand. Yeah. But no other family member do you get to choose other than your partner. And it really will dictate the rest of your life. Because if I had married someone who didn't want to see me do well, and we all know people who are in that situation where their partners are threatened by them, making more money or anything like that. I think it's, it's really hard. No, I was in that relationship before this and like that's why I left. And even it's so funny like my husband now, he's like praying, being like, let her have a huge exit one day so we can like share in like everything because it's a lot, right? And I think it's like being with someone who will be there through the highs and the lows and someone who was like, take off time to not work and take off time. But now that you're the breadwinner and he's like,

I see the mission. I see what you're doing. And I'm. either way, going to follow you. That's like a true partnership through whatever is coming your way. It's like it's like a baton pass. It really is. It was like he was a breadwinner. He felt all the burden and the responsibility, which I mean, to be honest with you, it's a lot. We have three kids. We have three kids in L.A. in private school. It's an expensive lifestyle to be here. And so like it has been a real shift for us, but we both appreciate each other a lot. But it probably took a little bit of time for it to get to that point with Tower 28. So you started it. after you had come back from the workforce or you came back to the workforce in another

rule and then you were like, wait, I don't want to do this. I want to do this for myself. I came back into the workforce full time with Tower 28. And there was a period of time where I was working but like still caretaking. And it's really hard to decide like when you spend money on resources like nannies and things like that because you have this guild that you're like, I'm not like cash flow positive. I'm not revenue driving. I'm not actually contributing yet. but yet I want to take this really seriously. And so it's really hard to figure out how and when to make those decisions. If anyone is listening and they're thinking about doing this with it and they're married,

I think one thing that my husband did for us up front is he created a lot of boundaries where he was like, listen, we can do this. At the time, he was like, if you want us to put money in, you're not going to take a salary and like something has to give here. And it's either going to be like, we can't do all those things and you want to do private school for the kids. So I pulled the kids out of private school, which I, felt really guilty about at the time. Now I feel like it's probably, if that's like the worst

thing that happens to them, fantastic. They need a little bit of struggle. So I think that was something that I did that I was really happy about. He made those boundaries where he was like, we can't do it all. This is what I need. And then he also said, like, how much money are we going to invest? And he put the cap at $150,000 and five years. He's like, we're not doing it for more than five years or for more than $150,000 in. This can't go on forever and it can't be this money pit that we keep putting. Like you see people on Shark Tank that have like mortgaged their house and they have like a million dollars of debt towards their business and like they have five kids and I'm like, oh my God, this is not. But mentally we wouldn't have been able to do that. Right. Like he is, again,

like he's someone who took us, we didn't buy a house until I was, you know, well, like 39. Yeah. So it took a long time for us to him to even get into the, and we could have afford it. You know what I mean? So it just took a long time to get there for him. So he's a really risk averse person. And I think, think you have to make each other feel safe. What was it that you saw that was worth the risk of taking your kids out of private school, putting $150,000 in towards your business to be like, this is a different product or company that doesn't exist? I think for me, it's like at some point you had to just bet on yourself. And like I had an investor come to me. I actually went to him and I was like, I'm looking for a job. And I wanted to get back to the industry full time. And I was like, it needs to be something where I have

a seat at the table. I've equity. It's funded. All of these things. And he was like, honestly, aren't you turning 40 soon? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, you're not going to do it if you don't do it right now. And that was really the kick in the butt that I needed. And I kind of talked about it for a long time. I told everybody, I wanted to start a company at one day. And I just hadn't actually pulled the trigger on it and done it. And I kept saying it, but it took someone actually saying to me like basically shitter it off the pot. Was that because you were afraid of failing. I think it was because I was afraid of failing, but I think I also told myself a story that it was too late and that because I didn't have money and I didn't have a partner. I couldn't

do it. So I think I saw like all of the nose in front of me and I didn't see a path forward. I mean, this was, you know, seven and a half years ago when the only people who were raising money that I knew of were like the away and the glossiers and like these big companies that felt so distant from me or the brands that I had seen come up were like expert brands, you know, makeup artists, estheticians, but I had never, you know, maybe like Greg Rindfrou from beauty counter, but people who raised so much money and I didn't have any clue how to do that. And I just didn't think that that was me. And this guy, this investor said to me, he was like, well, if you have money, you don't need a partner, you can hire people. And I was like, oh, okay,

well, I don't have any money. And he was like, I'll be your first money in. And then it was really just the door opened and so many people actually came to me and said like you've been saying you wanted to do this. I want to invest. And I think that was a sign that I should just bet on myself. I often find that people that are afraid to almost like fail publicly are also afraid to celebrate their wins publicly. Do you feel like you hide your success from people in your life? Absolutely. Why do you think you're like that? Oh gosh. I think there's a few things. I think one, I really believe in building quietly. I think we have this society that likes to see things get built up and then

likes to tear them down. And I just don't want anyone not rooting for me. And so I think there's part of that. I think it's also part of both my nature and maybe even my culture of being sort of a little bit under the radar and not as just braggy. I probably do worry a little bit about, you know, I'm still friends with my same friends from like childhood and et cetera. And like I don't, I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable.

maybe if I'm being really honest about it. So I guess I haven't been as public. It's such an interesting theme that I identified because especially as a woman, there's such a fine balance between being braggy and confident or bossy. And it's just interesting to see women step into their power and own it and not feel like they have to shy away from it. But it's still one of those balancing acts because trust me, like I watch people treat my husband very differently where it's like people just assume he's going to pay for dinner. Like it's just an assumption. And I think it's actually really brave when people disclose things like numbers or success because I'm like, you are now going to have to you for the rest of your life, make other people feel uncomfortable for you to feel comfortable. What has been the most uncomfortable moment for you building Tower 28?

Oh, this is such a good question. Listen, I've been really honest with my team about this internally too. We are in that messy middle where the business group, the team didn't. And I would say in the last few years, I probably had a choice of either doing it myself or hiring someone to do it. And I didn't have the bandwidth only to do both of those things. And I chose to just do it myself. And now I am in that position where it's harder, right? Because we just don't have the team to support everything that we're trying to do.

And so it's like structurally a very difficult thing. We're trying to hire. And I don't mean any particular. position. It's kind of all of them. We're only 35 people for the size of brand that we are. We're pretty understaffed. Yeah. Do you believe as a woman you can have it all? I believe you can have it all, but you can't have it all at once. Okay, that's exactly what I told Deepka. Yeah. I firmly believe that, actually. Like, I think there are like seasons to life and chapters to life where you have, like, I don't really believe in balance, but I believe in focus. And you can do like a few things well at a time for me right now.

Like somebody asked me the other day when my hobbies are and I'm like my hobbies. I was like, I work and I have family. That's kind of it. And I sometimes try to be a good friend. Right. Like what would you rate your stress level? Oh, I actually feel like I'm not a very super anxious or stressed out person. Okay. The business itself does not really stress me out. I actually find the work part of it. I'm pretty even keeled about it. The thing that stresses me out the most is people. And it's really like any time I've ever had to like let someone go or if something's not working out, that stresses me out a lot. Okay. So you have built like one of the most successful brands at Sephora over the last seven and a half years. Do you have a favorite child?

I mean, my favorite child is for sure SOS spray. So I think everyone, everyone asks, do you have a hero product? We actually have our SOS spray and our concealer and our mascara are all kind of products for us, which is amazing because from a mix of business perspective, like to be able to have like a skincare product and a complexion product and a color product that all have high LTV is like kind of amazing, just from a health perspective. But our SOS spray is really the one that kind of made everything else kick off. So during COVID, people started using our SOS spray organically and talking about how it was great for like post-workout, exercise, but like also blemishes, acne, all kinds of issues.

and we were all wearing masks and was so good for Maskney. And so it really is this product that people started sending me before and afters for. And I would say, like, that's so amazing. Can I use this? If you, it'll give you another spray. And it really did. I mean, we sell one every 10 seconds. If someone's building a beauty brand right now and that is like, I don't really get what

a hero product is. Like how much of someone's business in a range should make up a hero product? So the businesses I've worked in, a hero product is about 20% of your business. and ideally what you want is a hero product that can be 20% of your business, but it's also some of your best unit economics. So like there have been brands that you and I both know that have literally closed because they didn't expect for this. They were like, okay, I'm just going to make this product,

but you did economics are not good, but like it's a great product. I'd love it. And then that's the one that starts being really successful. And the rest, everything below the line can't support the economics of it. So you're selling this product. It's really popular, but you can't make money. Yeah. I posted a very controversial video about the expectation of influencers and gifting.

And as someone who sees both sides, a thousand percent as an investor and as an influencer, like I had a very specific POV on what the expectation is for influencers with gifting. From Tower 28's perspective, when you gift an influencer or a micro-influencer product, what is the expectation of them to post that product? So I believe firmly that because you can't ask anyone to do anything unless you pay them, right? Like it's just not fair. And because we haven't done sponsored content before, I really believe that like we're just gifting and hoping it's kind of like playing the lottery, right?

Like we're just hoping that people love the products and organically talk about them. That said, we're really investing in things like affiliate where like if you love it and you talk about it and like we're kind of in it together, like why shouldn't you. get some upside out of it. Have you seen an influencer really move the needle for the brand, like beyond anyone else? I would say a few, yeah. I mean, like when we had, in the very beginning, there was a influencer named Nicole Guerrero. I don't know if you remember her. She's a beauty influencer. And she posted, I mean, this was when we sent in early days and we, like, we're going on people's YouTube pages and grabbing their addresses and just sending to them, like, I wouldn't do that anymore. Like, without asking permission, we were just sending boxes to people because we didn't know any better.

And the boxes we were sending, and this is like back when like people were sending like those giant beauty blenders. Yeah. And we were sending these like sad little shipper boxes with just product inside like nothing to speak of. And I think we had like 250 followers, like really nothing.

And she opened the box. She tried our lip jelly. And then she screenshot pictures of herself buying 10 more of them and posted it. And this was so early days. And when it happened, I woke up the next morning and I was like, I thought something broke. I was like, why do we have all these orders? Who are these people?

Like, I think, I don't remember the actual number. Maybe it was like 200 orders. But like 200 orders when you're used to like 10 is crazy. Yeah. In the very beginning, right? I mean, we had like a Shopify site and like an Instagram mood board, really nothing. And I still, it's funny because I sent her flowers. I tried to like, whatever.

And she just like never even responded. We were like, thank you so much. Talk to her since. No. I've never talked to her. It's so funny. She never did. And nothing.

But like there have been other influencers, but that's probably the most, I think you just remember so clearly those early days. Like, I mean, I remember those moments when the first time we were at dinner and like I saw a girl pull out a lip jelly and put it on. And she probably thought me and my daughters were so crazy because we were all staring at her. Because there's those moments that you're like, this is real. Has there been a moment recently that's kind of taking your breath away?

I'm on the board of. the National Exxma Association. We make all of our products to be compliant with the National Exma Association. It's a big part of my story and my Y. And we decided to fund this year the scholarship program. So they have a scholarship that goes out to, we did $200,000 over the course of the next four years. And they have this big expo where they bring in like all of the most, it's like thousands of people who suffer the most from Exma. Their caretakers, they have these little trade show boosts where people can show products and things like that. But they have a series of, events, whether it's like the big dance at night or like during the day, they have doctors and

toxicologists talking about eczema, like, why do you have it? What is a research show? And what it really is is a community gathering. So they have all of these people who come together that suffer. And they didn't tell me they were doing this, but they, we had asked in advance where like, can we meet the people who are the scholarship recipients? They're like, no, we want to respect their privacy. And I was like, okay, I get that. But they had told all of the scholarship recipients, why don't you all show up at their booth at 3 p.m. if you're open to meeting Amy and the team. And so at 3 p.m. all of a sudden, 42 recipients and their caretakers and everybody all crowd around.

And they stood in this like kind of horseshoe. And I just quickly said something like, oh, my God, thank you for being here. We're so happy that we could like have you as part of this experience. I know how hard it is personally. And then very organically, they all started going around and talking about how much it meant to them that we made products that were not only clean and safer sensitive skin, but made them feel like they were part of the mainstream. It made them feel like they were cool. They could finally shop at Sephora and carry the same little black and white bag as everybody else. They could buy the things that their favorite influencers use and not feel like they were relegated to using like, I don't know, setafil or like not to name names.

But I get what you mean, though, because I actually have never talked about this, but I also have really bad eczema since I was a little girl. But mine's not on my face. Mine's actually just like all over my body. But I've never suffered from it on my face. I've had it behind my legs and like the fact that I'm even wearing this right now. Really weirdly like all in my ears. Like that is the place that it's so painful. Please try to. Yeah. I actually have the little mini one in my everyday bag. And then I never use sprays until my husband literally randomly went to Sephora. this summer, he was like, I bought you something and it was like a spray and it was great and I love it. But when obviously I knew you were coming on, I was like, wait, I'm going to like start to use this as my everyday spray because it's usually just the one I bring in my bag. And I will say, I think my skin has been looking really good recently. Your skin looks amazing. Yeah. So that's the power of the

spray. No, it is the power of spray, but it's also the power of the community. And I think just to, to create something that you have an intention behind. And my intention was always to like make a safe space for sensitive skin, like people who not only gave them products that made them feel good in their own skin, but also made them hopefully, like, walk a little bit different through the world and to see it reflected back in such a literal way and have people who, frankly, were telling me their stories about how they had tried to commit suicide. And, like, I don't know if people really understand, but people who have skin conditions suffer so deeply, not just physically, but mentally because they feel like they get bullied more. They don't try to go on dates. They don't try to

go for job opportunities. There's so much that happens when you don't feel good about yourself that is palpable and very, very life-changing. And so the ability to give people like the confidence. I mean, I had met a guy there who had been hospitalized for three months because eczema, when untreated, is basically like an overproduction of bacteria. And then he got sepsis. And then he's like in the hospital for a bacterial infection.

So these things are like, they're very hard. for people. I think the more that, and actually I think it's so great that you're saying that because like no one would look at you and think there was anything with your skin. Well, it's actually crazy. Funny little story about my childhood trauma is like when I got my first babysitting job, I had a break out of eczema and it actually turned into impetago, which is like extremely contagious. And so I remember because like I loved working. I started my first business when I was seven. I was devastated because my first babysitting job actually got taken away from me because I was going to be contagious because of my skin condition to the kids. And so it's actually just interesting

as my husband knows, like, I'll be scratching like crazy. And he's like, oh my God, like, are you having a flare up? And I'm like, of which one? Like I have so many health problems. But it is just something that I think the more cool people or like people that are in tune with culture talk about it make brands like this, the more that everyone's going to feel like, oh, there's nothing wrong with me. Well, and I think that's actually the thing that like our mission and what I think that we're able to do really well is not only is it clean and safer sensitive skin and the products work in their high performance, but I think there's this like other intangible of like it being cool and making sure that. And like that's actually the thing we really care about too

is we want people to feel like they get to be part of the cool crowd. They have that aspirational element that beauty at its core always is. Yeah. Okay, we're going to have to go on rapid fire, but one of the things I just want to give you your flowers for is I literally wrote down and we enough time to answer this, but Tower 28 is a beauty brand that feels safe without being boring. And like, I love that. I really feel like you guys have nailed that. So the three words we talk about that we want to be and stand for is good, clean, fun. Love that. Okay. Rapid fire. Yeah. What is the last thing you put on your credit card? Oh my God. Anything for my house. So we are, our house, unfortunately, was in the palisades earlier. This year, you know about the fire. So now we live in

Venice Beach and wow that is taking quite a big hit on my credit card. Because we are remodeling. Is that the most expensive last thing that you bought as well? A hundred percent. We have a leak right now that was like, I think the leak is causing a $35,000 ticket just in having to take out the replace the rotting wood and then we have mold and then, I mean, houses are a money pit. Nightmare. That's not even the fun stuff. Yeah. What's like the most fun thing that you put on your credit card last? there is a light fixture that we just bought that I really love. And I'm kind of like, I mean, there's, and like an oven that I really balled out on. I mean, I feel like in your next life, you're going to, well, not even the next life. Next chapter is like Martha Stewart vibes.

Maybe it's, I really love interiors. Okay. I mean, we're literally remodeling that house and we're moving offices and I'm going to remodel that area. Like, we're just doing a lot of, this year's a lot of construction. Okay. What is your biggest red flag when hiring? Oh. My biggest red flag is, I have a number of them, actually. When people don't have any consistency in their jobs where they stay places for like a year or under a year, like lots of jobs skipping is one of them. The other one that I talk about to my team a lot is when people say that what they really want to do is strategy. I'm like, oh, hmm, like, don't we all want to spend a lot of time on strategy?

I like, I need people to like roll up their sleeves and do the work. Yeah. Read receipts off or on. on what is your favorite thing in your closet right now oh this is a good one i feel like i should have some good ones i just had this blazer from st laurel that i really like what is your favorite beauty brand that is not yours oh this is so hard i will say i use rose the hair products r oz mara is a friend of mine, but really, my hair is so long and I really love that leave and milk conditioner. Love that.

It's been a game changer. Would you rather Zoom or in person? In person, a hundred and ten percent. Who, who picks Zoom? Well, I actually had someone on the podcast who said Zoom is the most under-stimulating thing that you can do. Yeah. So it's horrible. I love in persons, but it's just hard in L.A. to get to someone.

Yeah. Scheduling. Yeah. Like this took us two months to schedule. Yeah. Yeah. Scheduling is hard. Would you rather fire someone or go raise money from a VC?

Fire someone. And that says everything. Sorry, sorry. That's not it. So raise money from a VC, I think I had maybe the best. I raised money from private equity. I had a great experience. I think I had the best fundraise of anyone I've ever known.

I did it in six weeks. Like, we didn't use a banker. My husband handled it. So that was actually a super seamless and not hard. situation, I just don't need to fund raise again. So if you were like under your head, like you have to go raise money. I'd like, I do not want to. Yeah. Amen. Yeah. But fire someone like I truly believe it's like throwing up. It's like if it's a right thing to do, it's a right thing to do for both of you. And you feel so much better afterwards. Yeah. I actually haven't been able to do it and like ever. I've actually had to have my business partner do

every firing in our company. Except last week I actually did fire someone and it was horrible. It's horrible. But it felt. better after. It's horrible, but like, I think if you really believe in your heart, and every time I've done it, I believe in my heart is the right thing for both sides. Yeah. And you're letting them go because, like, it's literally called letting them go because they have higher and better things that they can do too. Yeah. And I just really believe it's like a fit thing. I love that. Okay, last one. Reading or a TV show? I wish I would say reading, but it's a TV show. What are you watching right now? I just finished watching Wayward. What is that? Oh my God. It's a Netflix series about Reform School and it's a thriller with Tony Colette and it's really disturbing. And my sister put me on and I watched the whole thing and I was disturbed the entire time.

Oh my God. That's like I hate horror movies or anything scary. It's like a reform school cult. Okay. And it's a true story. No. Okay. But it's inspired by true stories.

Okay. Amy Lou, where can people find you and what can they help you with right now? Oh, I love that. Okay, so at Tower 28 Beauty is our bigger handle. My personal one is Amy, E.M.Y, L-I-U-U-U-U-U-2-8. What can they help me? So we're actually doing an open casting call right now. We put it in the New York Times, and we're doing an open casting call for sensitive skin.

So you can go to our Instagram and find the link for it. But really, the goal there was we really want to show skin that looks like real skin. So textured, acneic, all of the things. and it's actually pretty hard to do that when you are using with a casting agencies. So that's something we're really working on. And what can people do to submit an application to be in the campaign?

Yeah, you can submit an application to be in the campaign. This is a paid opportunity. We really are looking for people who have difficult skin. And where do they go for that? I feel like you're going to get a lot of submissions. Yeah, it's Instagram really. There's an Instagram.

There's a link on our Instagram, but it's also if you happen to have a copy of the New York Times from this past Sunday in the style section. Is that your first ad in the New York Times? It's our first ad in the New York Times. That's huge. Congrats.

Yeah, no, thank you. Amy Lou, thank you so much for coming on Hot Smart Ridge. Thank you so much. Love it. Please. Anytime.