Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - What I Wish I Knew Before My Divorce (and how I built a $150M business from it) with Chriselle Lim

Episode Date: March 4, 2026

Chriselle Lim (Founder of PHLUR & "Rich Mom" on TikTok) opens up about the raw reality of her divorce, the alimony story nobody believed, and the financial lessons she wishes she knew before getting married. From building a 250,000-person waitlist for Missing Person to navigating a messy public split, Chriselle shares how she turned heartbreak into business momentum. She explains why prenups are about protection (not distrust), how women can take control of their finances, and what no one tells you about the legal realities of marriage and money. Timestamps: 00:00:00 Intro 00:02:00 What Makes an ‘IT’ Girl? 00:02:55 Chriselle Before Fame 00:04:02 Breaking Free from Perfection 00:06:34 Influencer or CEO? 00:08:14 The Moment Chriselle Stopped Pretending 00:10:08 Buying PHLUR Amid Divorce 00:12:09 Why ‘Buy, Don’t Build’ 00:13:03 Taking Over a Brand 00:13:42 First Move as a Brand Owner 00:14:56 What Selling a Company Really Means 00:16:59 The Role of People in Business 00:19:52 Pain vs. Pleasure: What Drives Action? 00:22:40 Secret to Storytelling 00:24:02 Stan Ad 00:25:37 Be Authentic or Fail 00:28:24 Documenting Divorce 00:29:43 The Cost of Sharing Your Life 00:30:56 Marriage Lessons Chriselle Learned 00:32:14 Why Every Business Needs a Contract 00:34:25 How ‘Rich Mom’ Went Viral 00:36:12 Backlash of Being a ‘Rich Woman’ 00:38:50 The Shift in Public Perception 00:41:14 Pique Ad 00:42:12 Bilt Ad 00:43:24 Chriselle on AI 00:45:15 Do You Identify as a Creator? 00:46:58 Embracing Creativity 00:48:08 Balancing Trends & Creativity 00:51:19 Sharing Your Story Bravely 00:53:08 I Bought Myself An Engagement Ring 00:54:37 Missing Person vs. Father Figure 00:55:10 Chriselle’s Favorite Beauty Brand 00:56:44 Entrepreneurship vs. Divorce vs. Co-Parenting 00:58:41 One Word to Describe Your Life 01:00:35 The ONE Thing to Hear on Hard Days ⸻ Sponsors: . Stan - Learn more at https://stanley.stan.store?ref=maggie_sellers&utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=youtube . Pique - https://piquelife.com/hsr for 10% off . Bilt - http://joinbilt.com/hsr ⸻ Follow Chriselle Lim: Instagram: www.instagram.com/chrisellelim ⸻ Hot Smart Rich: Your Business & Culture Gossip For ambitious women wanting to own the room, gain power, and build wealth. Join 250,000+ angels and subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter: https://hotsmartrich.com/subscribe Hot Smart Rich Money Mindset: https://shorturl.at/pJWLc Merch: https://hotsmartrich.shop/YouTube: https://shorturl.at/IXXFZInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hotsmartrich/Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hotsmartrich Maggie Sellers Reum:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maggiesellersreum/Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maggiesellersreumLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sellersmaggie/Locker: https://www.wantlocker.com/users/maggiesellersShopMy: https://shopmy.us/maggiesellersAmazon Storefront: https://www.amazon.com/shop/maggiesellers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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$150,000. But at that time, I was like, I don't know if this is the right moment. I'm already going through this really messy divorce, but it was my freedom day. You and your brand from everywhere on the internet are an it girl. I couldn't have ever imagined flur growing to where it's at now. Exits like that don't happen in four years, which is so crazy. I was really insecure. Borderline embarrassed to be my.

It really took me up until my divorce to realize that none of that is me. It's been like a one in a million journey. Tell us a little bit about that. Okay. What are the lessons that you wish you knew earlier when you were first getting married? Women have to be in control of their finances. You could be left with nothing. And I always tell people with your partner has an issue with...

There's a red flag right there. Even with business too. What do you mean by that? Um... The creator economy has changed so. changed so much. So when I started, just talk about whatever you want and the last few years, the economy boom. What do you think it takes for someone in 26 to be an influencer, to be a creator and to do it well? What it takes now is to have,

Hi, Angels, did you know that subscribing to our channel is free? And it's the simplest way that you can support our show and help us grow. If you do this, we can bring you even more of the content and the guests that you love. All you have to do is just hit the subscribe button below. So please, if you wouldn't mind, subscribe to the channel and thank you. In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Chris Lem.

Are you ready to get Hot Smart Rich? I am so ready. I've been ready. I was doing a lot of research and I kept hearing that you and your brand from everywhere on the internet are an It Girl. It was like, Chryselle Lim, It Girl, Fler, It Girl brand. And I just want to know what it takes in 2026 to be an it girl. I think it's just truly being authentically you.

There's so much out there. We'll get into this. But there's so much sameness out there, right? Whether it's in beauty, in fashion, and business, whatever that is. And so it's really refreshing for me when I see brands and people, even creators that have a very specific point of view. And it doesn't look so manufactured and like everything else. And I think that's what an it girl is. It's an it product.

it has its own voice and it stands out. It doesn't blend in. I was interviewing Stephen and he kind of said something similar, obviously not with the It Girl phrasing, but more so like the world is pulling us towards being the same. So how can you really stand out and paperwall push and like challenge boundaries? What were you like as a little girl? Like did you do those things? It's really funny because when I think of myself as the teenage Chrisel, I was really insecure, as most teenagers are, but I was borderline embarrassed to be myself. I was embarrassed to look the way I looked.

I was always about hiding myself and putting as much makeup and as much fashion as I can so no one could actually see my true authentic self. And that's how I really got into fashion and beauty is because I felt protected by it. It gave me this confidence that I didn't have. So as a little girl, I was extremely shy. extremely awkward, extremely tall. I was my height at the age of, I think, like, seventh grade, sixth grade. And so no boys liked me. I wanted to be attractive and I wanted to blend in, but I never did. And at the time, I hated it. But now I think it was a gift because it allowed

me to explore and figure out different things that allowed me to feel the best version of myself, which led me to what I do today. Was there a moment in time that you felt like you were taking off those chains of like what other people wanted you to be and like finally were yourself. Like how long did that actually take you? I mean, I'm 40 now and I think literally just five years ago. You know, I and I don't know how old or you don't have to mention that. 33. Okay, 33.

I think so much of yourself, even in your 20s, I'm sure you can agree, you're still figuring it out. You're learning about yourself. People are projecting their expectations of you. The society is telling you what you should be. like what women should be like and you're trying to process all of that and I think it really took me in my mid 30s to late 30s to realize that none of that was me and so if you really look back to my content because I've been on the internet for almost two decades now so if you look at how I presented myself even how I talk like I talk so differently from my videos of 10 years ago my my tone of voice is

different is because I was trying to be anything but myself. And so I think it really took me up until my divorce to realize that none of that is me. And what I built up was me to try to figure out who I was. And I think it took me up up until I was, I'm 40, so 35 years at 35 years old. That's when I was like, okay, this isn't it. This ain't it. What do you think it takes for someone in 2026 to be an influencer, to be a creator and to do it well, knowing what you know now. The creator economy has changed so much. So when I started, it was really about freedom of expression of just talk about whatever you want and showcase whatever you want. And then in the last few years, the economy boomed, right? I should know. And there are so many people coming into the

space of content creation, whether it be in fashion, beauty, business, tech, any of that, right? Everyone is a content creator. And so now. Now when I look at the landscape and there's so many creators, what it takes now is to have a very, kind of talking about what we were speaking about earlier, is a very specific point of view. And I think for you, Maggie, like, I know you haven't been doing this for 20 years, but you have such a specific narrative. And with your point of view and your experience and your background and what you stand for, it's very specific.

Now it's like having that specific niche and a mission. Also, so much of what we're seeing now is, as I mentioned, it's all the same. People want purpose. And because of the rise of AI, everything is perfected, right? Everything. And you could see an image and you're like, that's beautiful, but that's too perfect, whether it's a video or photo. And so I think people are craving more realness and people are craving more realness. and people are craving rawness and imperfections, really.

And so I think that's my biggest thing. And you're clearly doing that is that you're sharing stories of real rawness and, you know, hardships and moments. And for me, I told myself, I don't need to continue to do this as a fashion or beauty influencers. There's so many, I mean, the amount of incredible beauty and fashion influencers, I'm like, how do you? I can't keep up with this. Right? But I said if I'm going to continue to do this to create content, it's purely because it's going to help other people through my stories. And so it's just storytelling, being authentic, your real version of yourself. I have so many small creators that contact me that are saying, oh my God, I want to start this, but I'm going through a breakup. Like, can you help me? I'm like, that's the message, right? That is who you are. Show up as that. Show up. as you're broken, real raw self and you will find your tribe. You'll find your audience through that.

I think I was raised in this industry for everything to be a little bit with perfection. You know, if you look at a lot of my old photos and videos, we edited the shit out of them. It was all about making it look like the dream fantasy life. And I'm really proud of myself and kind of where I've come to a place in my life where I'm like, okay, I don't need to be anybody else but myself now. Do you still consider yourself like an influencer creator now that you've done so much in other domains? I will always be a creator at her.

And creating can be in many different forms, right? It could be creating a video. It could be creating fragrances. It could be creating something. So I think I will forever be a creator of one way or another. I started off as an influencer. I didn't even know what an influencer was back then, but that's what we call influencers now. I think I still love that part of the business.

I love product. I love talking about my routines because I have a community of women that look up to me that want information. And so in that sense, I am an influencer and I forever will be sharing my thoughts and opinions, whether it be products or life stories. So yes, I still consider myself as an influencer. Do I do it as much as I used to? No, I don't. But I hope and I wish that I could continue to have a platform where I could influence other women and my community. So yeah, I love creating content. I create content with my eyes closed. I'm sure you do too. It's like I could just turn it on and create a video in a second. So it's fun. I always find it so fascinating when I have women like you in the chair that are like, because you are so many different hats. Like obviously the one that stands out the most is like entrepreneur. Like you've done something incredible, which. we're going to talk about. But I think the word creator used to be such a dirty word because it meant that you couldn't actually take on the business responsibilities of building a business. When was the

moment that you decided, like, I don't actually have to choose anymore. I can be every single title that I want to be. And I'm not going to let anyone tell me who and what I am. I think I've always been more of an entrepreneur at heart even before the creator economy was born, really. I remember 20 years ago when I first started creating content and no one was really making money from it. It was just pure pleasure. When I got my first paycheck, which was quite small, but it was big at the time, what I did was I hired my first employee with that check. I was like, I don't know how I'm going to pay her the next round because this is like

a one-off check, but I'll figure it out. But I've always had the attitude of like, how can I make this into a functioning running business so I could scale it. And so that's always been my outlook on things. And I also sometimes I'm like, oh, Chris, you don't have to make everything into a business. But that's just how my mind works. I'm like, oh, that like, we can make that into a business. And so I think I've always been an entrepreneur and businesswoman first that happened to land in a creative space. And I love creating. And so I believe you can do both. Was I the best executor as far as logistical things? No, and I learned that along the way of what my weaknesses were.

But I think I realized that I just, I need to surround myself with people that could help me. This is pre-you joining, taking over, Fleur and like building a fragrance powerhouse. One of the things I was so excited to bring you on here today is because you have a buy, not build story. And I am constantly telling people like that is the best way to build a business, when you don't actually have to come up with like the original concept and you can buy something and build it into this mega brand, which you have literally done. I would love for you to explain taking us back to the moment you first heard about Fleur, what was that moment that felt like your gut instinct was telling you, yeah, this is what you need to do. So for those of you that might not

know my backstory, I was going through my divorce when I got the opportunity to come on board with Fleur. And so at that moment, I was like, God, like, I don't know if this is the right moment. I'm already going through this really messy divorce. You know, I'm probably going to have to pay alimony, which we could all obviously talk about later. And it just felt like it was the wrong time. But there was one thing that I do remember at that moment. And I was said, look, Fleur is going into its like second chapter of its life. and I knew of Fleur.

Fleur was a beautiful, clean brand, very, very niche, pretty high-priced. I had three of their scents, and I was obsessed with the scent, and I would wear the sense once in a while. And so I respected the brand a lot. They were one of the very first brands that ever transparently named all the ingredients that went into a fragrance. This was, like, decades ago before anyone knew what was going into the fragrance. And so I remember when I was going through my pregnancy, I would only feel safe wearing Fleur because I knew exactly what was going into Fleur. And so I was like, I love Fleur. I love what it represents.

I trust Fleur. What they build is it incredible. And if I could put my fun spin to it and have it be a little bit more youthful, a little bit more colorful, tell my stories through it. I'm a storyteller at heart. then maybe I could have some fun with it. I don't know if it's going to work out, right? I don't know. And the opportunity to buy this brand was there.

Unfortunately, they weren't doing very well. And so I had an opportunity with my business partner, Ben Vennib, to essentially buy out Flur and give it new life. And so we did that. And I get that question a lot of like, why don't you just start your own brand versus buying out a new brand? And I think my answer to that was, I respected the brand, and I already had a vision of what it could be like.

There's something that's very valuable that they built, which is respect and loyalty from the consumer that they already had. It was a very small and new consumer, but it's there. Like, why not take advantage of that? And it was a beautiful brand. And so it was definitely the right approach. Obviously, we changed everything from the packaging to all of the cents to the manufacturers, to the process, but I think in the beginning as we were starting, it really helped out already having a few things in place instead of starting from complete scratch.

Totally. Yeah. What would be someone's involvement from like the founders that started the brand? You guys take over. You have this vision. Like, are they still like getting an influence in it or is it like cut, clean slate? And this is now our brand. Yeah.

Totally respect the original founders of the brand. But they were completely out once we came in place. And I think it was a nice kind of. transition. It's been an exciting journey since. It's been like a one and a million journey. I feel like exits like that don't happen in four years, which is so crazy. Yeah. What is the first thing that you did when you were like, I now own this brand? What are we doing here? As an entrepreneur, kind of the dream has always been to sell a company at one point. And once you get to that point, you think it's going to feel a certain way.

And it never really feels that way. And I'm sure you've you've talked to. so many founders that have sold their company. And I think for me, specifically, I haven't worked on Flore for more than four years, coming out five years. And so I was like, okay, I'm ready to commit again because essentially I'm still part of the brand because a lot of people are like, are you still with the brand? I'm like, yes, of course I'm still with the brand. I have so much more to give. It's not like I've been with the brand for 20 years. It's still brand new for me. And so it was really exciting for me that are now owners were like absolutely you need to be on the brand because I think in a lot of people's mind when you exit a company you're out and you're on to the

next thing I'm not ready for that like I I love flur I'm really attached to flur and I just have so many more stories to tell and there's a lot of things that we haven't done yet we're really scratching the surface so yeah I'm excited I still get nervous I don't know why like and I think that's a good side for me because it's like the minute that you don't feel anything and there's like apathy of like, oh yeah, I'm like whatever, that's when you're checked out. For someone that's listening to this that doesn't actually know what it means to get your company acquired, can you explain a little bit about what that even means? Yeah. To get your company acquired, you obviously have to reach a certain point in revenue. So now we have new owners, essentially that we have to report to. I am still

fully involved and my entire executive team is fully involved. But, But that pretty much means that you have new bosses and you're building something together. I know there is a lot of negative connotations around selling your company to private equity or to just selling just in general because they call you a sellout or whatever. For me, it was the only way because with Flur, I couldn't have ever imagined Flur growing to where it's at now. And our team has always been super small and nimble. It's still relatively small for the size of the company. And I knew that in order for us to continue to grow this business,

the team needed help. I needed help. Like we couldn't do this on our own anymore. And so I love the brand so much. I'm like, I need to build out. We need to build out this team properly. So everyone has the support, the opportunities to be able to do what they need to do to continue to grow this brand.

It's different, but it's also a lot of the same because the team is entirely the same now. And I think it's, again, going into a relationship. It's no different than that. You've got to date your buyers. You got to understand how they operate, what their goals are, what motivates them. And so we spent a lot of time with TSG, our buyers, and it just felt so right instantly. but then you also have to give a time, right? And then talk to people.

Got to get your referrals in, right? It's just been a joy working with them. And I'm personally learning so much. And we also have to remember that this is my first time doing this. Like, I only know what I know, right? And so I love flour and I want it to continue to flourish. And it needs the proper team to be able to pull that off. I mean, you've made a lot of people like it.

I think for this perfect. fragrance, you had a 200,000 person wait list. Is that correct? 250,000, yeah. 250,000 person wait list for this. I found it so interesting reading about how you connect dots, and I've watched a lot of your videos of, like, launching certain things. And I think the one thing I'm so intrigued by is what do you think it says about our society that there is this storytelling link between a missing person in your life? So like, whether it's a death or a divorce or a breakup, that it's created the hype to have like 250,000 person wait list. Like what does that say about the role of people and the role of our society right now?

It says everything, really, because typically in beauty, whether it be in fragrance or makeup or skincare, you're selling the dream of being the best version of yourself, of being perfect and having flawless skin or they don't want to feel imperfect, right? we spun that because at the time when I was creating missing person with our noses, I felt nothing but good about myself. I quite literally couldn't even get out of bed. I was not motivated to work. And the only feeling I could ever feel at that moment was,

God, like, how am I going to get through the state? I just felt like this void. And so I said, let's start here. Let's bottle something up that I currently need at this time in my life, which is security, safety, a nice warm hug, connection. That's what I was craving. We have, like, the world's best noses. And I just dropped those, like, those feelings. I was like, can we create a smell like this?

And they're like, okay, we'll try, you know, with a few iterations, we went back and forth. And that's how missing person was born. But when you really think about humans, we all go through the same emotions. We all have our own collective journeys that we all go on. But we all feel the same emotions of loneliness, sadness, just wanting to feel loved. And I think we're a lot more the same than we are different. And so I think that really tied the community together, the people together, and they're curious. Like, I know how that feels, but how does that actually smell?

And so that's how a missing person was born, and that's how we garnered a waitlist of 250,000 people. People started posting online videos of them spraying it, crying to tears because it really reminded them about someone that they missed or a missing moment in their life. At one point, people were coining at the sad girl scent. It kept making people cry. But I think in sadness, there's a lot of beauty. in that and you find and discover yourself along that journey. And so missing persons are very special. And not just for me, but for thousands of people now. So that's incredible. Yeah. It's so fascinating to think about pain versus pleasure. And I always like tell myself even when I'm going through something like

this is a part of your story. Like it's going to actually help you one day. Because if you don't go through anything, what would you ever talk about? What do you think people are motivated to act on in their own life when they see a piece of content or a product that's maybe, more geared towards pleasure or pain? Pain and pleasure both have a function, and that function is it draws something in you, and it stirs something in you. And so I don't think one is better than the other.

I think missing persons probably are only sad girls' hint. Everything else is storytelling, but it's a lot more about pleasure. It's about wanting to feel hot, smart, rich. Love it. It's father figure is one of my go-toes, and it's embodying this, like, really rich woman, but she's also the father figure and the mother figure based on my story of having to, at the time, be single mom and having to co-parent and having to play up that, like,

strength of a father with that tenderness of a mother. In a sense, like, you want to feel like a badass bitch, right? And that's what father figure does. And for me, that's pleasure. And so I think there is a purpose for both, and they're both equally as effective. It just has to be true and authentic. And as much as I want to come out with more missing person, sad girl scent, I'm also a girl of joy and lots of exciting stories. And there's two sides to human emotion.

And you have to dig in deep for both of them. Have you ever created a piece of content that's ready to go live? You've written the caption. but instead of hitting publish, your finger just hovers. And then you don't. You just don't put it live. While I've done that, more times than I can count. When I first started posting content, I found publishing to be the worst part.

But through the years of posting every single day, I learned that if you're waiting to feel confident enough before you start posting, then you're going to be waiting forever. Because confidence actually comes once you hit publish. My partners at Stan built their AI coach, Stanley, to help you and other creators show up consistently. Stanley pulls from your own content. It learns your voice and helps you turn your thoughts into posts that you can publish every single day. You don't need to be perfect to start. You just actually need to start and then keep going.

And Stanley will help you do that. So search Stanley now. You can learn more at stanley. dot stan dot store you have a way with you of like communicating in such a beautiful eloquent way that i would love for people listening to this like when they're thinking about storytelling i would say like even the way you just described father figure i'm like i want to go buy it like i i feel that tug myself between my femininity and my mass unity of like being this way at work and then having to wear a completely different hat even with my husband so from the master of storytelling that has

transformed your storytelling across different categories, your personal brand, Flur, other businesses that you've been involved in. If you could drill down the secret to storytelling into one lesson for people listening, what would that be to hook the person they're trying to reach the way that you've been able to do that? There's no way around it but being authentic. The thing with storytelling is that you can't fake it. People and the consumer is smart now, right? Like you try to fake something, they could smell that. And so, I always help you, even with Flur, right? Like, we have so many scents now, like, including our body,

most I think we have 30 plus cents now. And not every single scent is story-based because I can't make that shit up, right? I can't. And I'm very honest with people. For instance, vanilla skin. Vanilla skin is not really tied to my story at all, but it's a note that I love vanilla and we want to just take a fun little spicy, sexy spin to it. And that was enough.

And that was a story in itself. And so, yes, storytelling is important to the process, but don't do storytelling if it's not authentically you. And you have to kind of see how it's going to all tie together. So one of my favorite parts of what I do is, okay, we have our calendar, right? We have our fragrance launch calendar. And we typically have a few EDPs and a few body members. And I think, okay, what are the stories I want to tell this year?

And then I'll write it all down. And then from there with our noses, we'll go back and forth of like, okay, what do we have that could represent this? And then we'll kind of like pop it in to different months. So you have to start with the authentic story first. I think when you start with the product first, it gets a little challenging of like, okay, how am I going to create a story around this? So I always, personally, always start with the storyline first. I have a secret to tell you.

Yeah. So I called off my engagement. I moved all my stuff into storage and I was like a shell of myself. Okay. And my sister sent me your video and she was like, I think you should document this the way that Carsell has. Like you don't have to post it, but just like go and watch the videos later and see how you feel. So I watched all of your videos and you were one of the people that really helped me get back

to a place of being able to function. and also go through my feelings because I was like watching what you were going through. And then I remember like moving all the boxes into my house in Calabasas and like filming myself. These are never posted by the way. And I didn't think I would. But it was more just for myself. Yeah. And it was really therapeutic for me to be able to like compartmentalize document and then like go back to trying to like start HSR.

Because that was really when HSR was even starting. So I wanted just to tell you that because I think, you know, as a creator now, like all we want to do is help people and like feel. part of a community and it really did help me at that time. Looking back, were there any cons of documenting that journey as publicly as you did? When you're a shell by human, like you and I have both been through and some people have been through, you're not really thinking further than like getting through the next day or how you're going to survive for the week and just put on your best self. And so when I was documenting those moments, it wasn't. really for the documentary or to put it online.

Of course, as a content creator, I am trained to document everything. I've got some lot better about it because I'm like, I just need to not pick up my camera at times, especially with my kids around. But at that time, I was like, you know what? I might want to look back at this at some point and remember this because I know I'm not going to be here forever. I might be married again at one point. Who knows?

and it's going to be nice to look back at this. And the one thing that I do, and thank you for bringing this up, I remember clearly on my birthday when I decided to walk away from my marriage. It was that day. It was my freedom day. Every birthday, I always look back on the video I filmed of myself crying on my birthday five, six years ago because it's a good reminder. And it's not to always go back to the past.

But it also brings you back to the present and makes you realize how far you've come as a person and how much you've accomplished. And sometimes it is good to remind yourself of those moments. I have no regrets on documenting these moments. I look back at them and I'm proud. One of the best things I hear from people besides the fact that they love my fragrance brand is when someone comes up to me and be like, thank you so much. Like I saw your content when I was going through my breakup and divorce, and it really saved me. It helped me, whether they decide to stay or decide to move on, like it helped me go through a very hard time in my life.

And for me, I feel like I served my purpose as a creator, as an influencer, to be able to help other women that might be struggling. And so it's fun to look back on that moment. You are dealing with a lot. You're starting this brand. You're navigating things that, like, you probably didn't even have friends to talk to about it because this was so taboo to talk about divorce, alimony. Like, how did you get through that period?

Yeah. I knew one person that got divorced, and I'm going to say her name because she openly talked about her divorce as well. Her name was Risa. I think she's CMO of Rival. She's one of my really close friends, and she's the only person I knew that actually went through a divorce, and she went through it probably a year before me. Just having that one person to, like, talk to about this, and also,

being like, okay, what are the first steps that I need to do? What's the thing that you did? Who's your lawyer? Like, who do I talk to? Just having that one person really helped out. I come from a very traditional Korean conservative family. And luckily, my parents are very, very supportive. And they're like, look, we feel that this is the right path for you. But we don't know anything about it. We don't know how to help you. So I just kind of had to figure it out. A lot of Googling, to be honest. And there wasn't that much information. Now within the next, like, after five years, some people are coming out talking about the divorces and pre-ups and what's important.

I mean, we've come so far already as women and as society talking about these taboo topics. But at the time, just five years ago, there was really nothing. And it was scary. Having gone through what you've gone through and, like, having paid someone alimony, like, what are the lessons that you wish you knew earlier when you were first getting married or if you could do that over again? I think marriage is a beautiful thing. I think marriage is sacred.

I do understand that 50% of marriages do fall apart, but I'm a lover girl. Like I would like to believe in marriage and love, and I still do. But with that said, I think there's not enough education around marriage in general and what you're signing and what could happen if it doesn't work out. And I always tell girls, and this is information that I think my daughters need to know and their generation needs to know, is that your marriage should not be defined by a piece of paper. If anything, that is the blending of finances, taxes, like all of the legality, all that messy stuff. So the number one thing I knew about was the contracts and also pre-ups. And pre-nup typically has a negative connotation, but I think we're slowly trying.

changing that, right? And I think pre-ups typically are seen as like the rich man wants the younger woman to sign a pre-up. It's no longer about that. It's about equality. It's about protecting your peace. It's about protecting what you've built. It's not about just in case you get divorced. And yes, we always have to think about that. I always use a car analogy. You go into someone's car just because you trust them, are you not going to put your seatbelt on? No, you have to put your seatbelt on regardless. And it's about protecting the peace. And that's something I did not, I didn't even know what a pre-in-up was when I got married.

I'm engaged. I'm not saying that I am going to get married because we're just engaged right now. But if and when we do get married, definitely preen up all the way 100%. And that's something that I'm very comfortable talking about with him, that he talks about with me. And I always tell people if your partner has an issue with that. There's an issue right there. There's a red flag right there. And even with business too.

So prenupts with business partners. That's a big one. What do you mean by that? I think a lot of business ideas come with like friendships and people that you love, just chatting about building ideas that's actually, I mean, not to go too deep into it. But one of my earlier businesses, it was really built off of kind of, oh, I trust you, right? And there was no real contract in place. there was no pre-up. If it's not in writing, it doesn't exist. Any relationship that you go into, business,

marriage, have a contract, have a pre-nep. When and how do you bring up that hard conversation of like, hey, this is all great, but we need to do X? You just have to have it. And I cannot emphasize this enough. You start a business with the hopes that it's going to go somewhere, right? And let's say that, it does and you don't have a contract, that person can walk away with half all your money and you could be left with nothing. It's so important that as uncomfortable as it is, and the same thing with going into marriage, you have to have those conversations. And as I mentioned earlier, if you can't have that conversation with your friend that

you're starting business with, you probably shouldn't be going into business with them. Someone has to have those difficult conversations, and it's always going to come back at you. I always say that what is not taking care of now will come back bigger, loud, or stronger, and you're going to have to deal with it at some point. Yeah. So true. You developed kind of a persona of sorts while you were going through your divorce that felt like a lot of these lessons, but in kind of like a fun, TikToky way, which was rich mom advice.

Tell us a little bit about that. So rich mom was born during the pandemic. This was actually not during my divorce. It was pre-de-divorce. And I think it was an outlet for me. It was a sense of escapism because I was so miserable going through what I was going through. But at the time, Rich Mom was developed by my followers on TikTok. It was a young audience.

They don't know who I was. They don't know what a fashion vlogger was. Parasite that Korean movie. that won a bunch of awards was popping off. And they're like, oh my God, are you the rich mom? Because I had really short hair and supposed to be kind of looked like her. And so I started acting like her. And my audience loved it.

And it just went so viral. So I continued that series, teaching them how to dress appropriately for a job interview, where to spend your money, like all these mom advice. But in a very humorous kind of sarcastic way. I think because a lot of people didn't know who I was, they thought that was really me. They thought I was actually a rich mom. And so it was fun while it lasted, but it died quickly. Can we talk about this for a second?

Because it fascinates me. I use the word rich in my company's name. And it polarizes people so much. Like think about a woman calling herself hot, smart, and rich. It is so polarizing. And sometimes I think I let the noise come in. Because when I started this brand, like I was at the lowest point in my life. life. I was actually like, I didn't think I was any of those things. And it was a feeling. It was like,

I'm evoking this almost like, it wasn't escapism because it was actually more manifestation. Like, this is what I want to become. And I find it so fascinating where we are in culture and society right now because, you know, we all want to be a fucking rich mom. You know, we all want to be hot, smart rich. But then when someone gets it and they show it, it's almost like now we just want to tear that person down, right? So I'm fascinated even with someone like, Becca Bloom, who's done such a great job building this very polarizing side of the internet that, by the way, like, I really enjoy watching and I see no problem with. But I think what I'm seeing amongst comments and trends is like, as soon as it gets to feel to some people, like,

unattainable or not funny or they're not embarking wisdom on people like you were, it's all of a sudden, like, people are turning on that. Did you over feel that sense of like when it was a joke, people thought it was fun. But then if you actually now came out and you were like, well, I am a rich mom. And here's my advice. Do you think that you would experience that same shift? You know, it's funny because after I sold my company last year, which was not too long ago, I was always a paycheck to paycheck girl, even as an influencer, right? I had my revenue and I had to upkeep that. I had my team. I had my overhead. But it was always kind of chasing that, the next paycheck, the next job, next sponsorship, just to make sure that I was aflo.

And coming into this type of money made me feel very uncomfortable. I'm a child of an immigrant, and my mindset has always been about scarcity of like, okay, this can all be taken away. Like, if I don't work hard, then, like, I'm going to lose everything. And so I've actually been going to therapy a lot for that because even now, I love working, working with my therapy, which is an issue in itself. But it's about, no, I'm good. But the minute that you act like you're good and you feel comfortable and people sense that from you, there's like the shift of like, oh, like, you're better than us or you're.

And I definitely have felt that. And so I used to feel like I had to be flashy to show off. that I've made it or I had to carry all these name brands and because I'm in fashion and that's how I thought I made it or I looked like I made it, right? But now it's really about what I want and just not having to show everyone and not having to prove myself. And if I want something, if I want to relax, I don't have to explain it to anybody. And it's something that I'm still coming to terms with because I've worked my entire life. I didn't come from a wealthy family.

I came from a very hardworking middle-class family. My sister and I, we retired our parents two years ago. We just bought them a house, and we got them a car. And for me, this is the reason why I do what I do. I have them taking care of. But now, like, I can take care of myself too. What? Really?

Like, that just feels weird, right? And so that's something that I've been working on for myself and be like, No, Chris, you don't have to always be working, and you don't have to always be proving yourself. So, yeah. Is there anything more disruptive than a hangover? Mine are so bad that I can barely drink anymore unless I'm celebrating a big moment. But I still love a ritual that signals the end of the day. So thank goodness I came across Vesper by our sponsor, Peek.

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My grammar is horrible. Like, it's embarrassing. But then I'll use chat repetees to, like, clean it all up. But it's still in my voice. And so, again, I'm really behind with AI and all that. I'm sure that there's ways that I could be more productive in what I do and the team. But, yeah, I haven't really fully embraced it to, to. what it is today. How about you? I think the thing that I'm trying to use it for is more like

productivity based. So if I'm giving it a to do list of every single thing that I need to do, it's like helping me figure out with my brain. Like when is the best times to do what and how long should actually things be taking me? Because I think sometimes like I used to hate saying that I was a creative because I was so like driven by the girl boss mentality of like being a CEO and being a business person. But I would say at the end of the day I am a true creative. Have you heard this thing like makers versus managers. No. So my husband was actually the one that taught me about this.

When he first on my schedule, he was like, you are not being set up for success because you are creative. You should have at least two days of your week that have absolutely nothing on your schedule. So you can go and be creative. Which is hard to do when you're just like, I need to be creative now and you just sit down. But my practice is like those are the days that are for experimenting, learning, going to a coffee shop, watching people interact, walking Sephora, going to Alta, like trying to to understand the consumer behavior around me. Whereas I think for creatives, when you're so put into

this box of like, I have to be at these meetings, it's actually really hard to think about like, what is actually going to move society forward? What am I actually thinking? Do you identify as a creative? Oh, my goodness. I could have this conversation with you all day because, yeah, I didn't realize it was like makers versus managers. But yes, so we've had to reformat my schedule because my assistant is looking at it as like what slots that they could fill in given that, you know, there's not that many because I travel so much. But it's not productive on the creative side. And the creative side is equally, if not more important than the business side as we're

having to think of ideas that is going to move the needle. And that doesn't just come out from like, okay, from 12 to 3 p.m. I have to be created. Let me think of the best idea. It usually never happens. It also doesn't happen from scrolling. That's what I realized. So what we started to do was on Fridays, nothing's on my, I said, I need a four-day weekend,

not because I'm exhausted, but because on Friday, at least, if there's nothing on my calendar, I could just go out and do what I do and do nothing. Doing nothing is so important about with being creative. And nothing as, and like, you're just going out to museums, you're observing people, You're doing the 100% of all my best ideas was me being out in the world, not being on my phone. And so it's such a big part of my schedule now is on Fridays. Nothing is on my calendar. Yeah, it's so important as a creative just to have that time to breathe and flow and just to aimlessly kind of go to a coffee shop, do whatever it is, go to Pilates, like just whatever brings joy in you and something will hit, something will spark.

You can't underestimate that. That is so important. Did that take you time to learn, though? Yeah. I mean, up until like maybe this year or last year. Because I get even like what you were saying around permission to almost just like not go so hard. I think a theme that I'm seeing with like women, whether they're reaching out and asking me about HSR or even people I'm like having in the chair who haven't sold yet, it's like, you know that saying work smarter, not harder? Yeah.

I think it is so hard to put that into practice. Yeah. Because you think the harder that you work, the more that you go, the more that you're going to be able to do. Yeah. And even for myself, like I getting to this moment in the business have been, like, grinding. And I took off some time for like a bachelor at party and to go skiing with my husband. And I remember just feeling clear. But giving yourself permission to do that is such a challenge.

Yeah. What do you think the boundaries are that you have to put around things like scrolls, time or like just even knowing what's going on in the ecosystem of like the fashion and beauty world because it's moving at such a fast pace. How do you stay plugged in to know like what is in the zeitgeist right now but also giving you that time to go and be creative and to come up with the next thing? I actually don't scroll that much. I do scroll because I have to kind of upkeep kind of see what's going on. I don't want to be in the dark. I want to be updated on what's develop in and what's happening, especially in the same news. There's so many things that are happening like at light speed. But you have to be disciplined with your screen time. And there's no other

words to put around it or you have to make those boundaries yourself. You have to understand that it's whether it's not good for your mental health or it's wasting your time when you could be creating. I told myself, if I'm on Instagram or TikTok, majority of that time is because I'm creating and I'm putting out versus me scrolling. And I don't have a set time of like, oh, I'm only allowed to scroll for like 30 minutes or an hour. I don't. But I just know when that time is. Like, I just can't. And yeah, sometimes I get tempted. I'll like open it up and like, oh, I'm not supposed to do that. And I'll kind of quickly put it away. Towards the end of the winter break, I was just feeling not so great about being online. So I just put boundaries out. And I said,

okay, like, let's just not do this as much. And yeah, I checked in once in a while, but for the most part, I was out of it and it did something in me. Like, it allowed me to just enjoy the present moment and I had a great idea. And I was like, okay, like, I have that space now to think beyond like what's in front of me. And so I think people need to manage their boundaries around social media and just get out in the world. And I know it sounds so funny because it's going to make me sound like in the good old days, you know, this is what we used to do. My kids, I'm very stripped about screen time and phones, even though some of their peers have it. They don't have phones. They are not allowed on social media. If they have screen time, it's on the weekend

and it's max for an hour. And it's usually on the family TV. It's not like on a phone. And half the time, and even on planes, people think I'm crazy. I don't bring my tablets and they're like well where the kids going to do I'm like I don't know they'll figure it out and yes it takes about like an hour for them to be like I'm bored I'm bored I'm bored but after they break through that they do some crazy shit like

they're just out there like play make believe and they're using their creative mind and their brain that so many of us we don't do anymore and so I try to practice that with my kids and also myself as well I try to model it for my kids it's hard I know given what I do but yeah I

I think it's really important that we all give ourselves time away from social and just be out as humans out in the world. Let me ask you something because this is actually something I struggle with. Like, I also come from a very conservative, like, traditional family where it's like we don't speak about things that are uncomfortable. And I even remember when a teacher told my parents like, oh, Maggie might have ADHD. She needs to get tested. It was like, no, you don't type of thing. I'm so interested for you what the journey has been to share your story so bravely when there may have been people in your life who would have preferred you to stay silent. Yeah.

I think I still deal with that a lot because this conversation of women owning their life, women now are the ones who want the divorce or want the breakup. women now making more money than a lot of the men. I remember when I started talking about alimony and people thought I was talking shit. I'm like, no, I'm not talking shit at all. This is education that we all need to know. And it was women being like, I can't believe that you're saying those things

about your ex-husband. I'm like, I'm not saying anything but lovely things about him because he is a lovely person and he's an amazing dad. But all I'm saying is that women have to be in control of their finances and before you get married or even before you go into business, owning that up. And those conversations stirs people up. And they're like, they immediately put it in a category of like, oh, women are money,

that's shit talking. But it's not. It's education that we all need to know and to be empowered. And so I still speak up about it, even though some people, it might make people uncomfortable. I think it's important. And so I say that we continue to do that. I think it's all for the next generation to make better and wiser decisions and not make the same mistakes that we've made. Okay, amazing.

I need to ask you some rapid fire. Yes, let's do it. Okay. I feel like you're going to be good at this. What is the last thing you put on your credit card? These rings. Love from where I was staring at them. It's from the beers.

Love. I saw her and I was like, you know, what would be really nice is I have an engagement ring from my fiancee. But if I had an engagement ring for myself and it was bigger than my engagement ring. I'm crying. But this is not a divorce ring. This is an engagement ring to yourself. Engagement ring to myself. I never had a ring for myself to be married to myself.

And so, of course, that idea didn't come up first. I saw the ring and then I found an excuse of why I needed this ring. But now that I look at it, and I've had it for a few weeks now, and I'm like, I look at it and I'm like, oh, damn, you did good. You did good. I am very happy with this purchase. And it just reminds me of how far I've come as a woman, as an entrepreneur, that I was able to treat myself without guilt. and to be able to say, you know, like, at the end of the day, the most important thing is that you are proud of yourself and you are married to yourself and everything will fall into place.

So, yeah, it's my own engagement. I am obsessed. Let me see a close up. Thank you. Oh, it's so good. Thank you. Okay, you can only pick one to wear for the rest of your life, missing persons or father figure. Oh, you're asking.

Ask me, like, what child is your favorite job? That's really hard. Missing person. Okay. Father figure, I do wear more, but if you're saying for the rest of my life, probably missing person, because it just becomes your skin. It just becomes you. Father figure has a little bit more ump.

So, like, if I wear for the rest of my life, at some point, I might be like, oh, I need to change this stuff. But, yeah, missing person. What is your favorite beauty brand that isn't yours or? part of the center. I saw that you had SIF on here. I know it's not beauty, but it's kind of beauty, beauty wellness. I love what she's doing. I love what she's doing on the business side. I think she's incredibly smart and savvy. And she has just like this knack of like understanding the market and having a really great product. I use their products every day. Of course, Summer Fridays, Mariana,

Lauren, they're so dear to me. And they were really the start of kind of this whole, niche beauty, right? And they started Summer Friday so long ago, not so long ago, but way before like a lot of these newer beauty brands have popped up. And they really kind of paved that way for so many of these newer brands. So, and they continue.

I think they just launched a lip liner and they're dying to try. And I just have to say, Sephora in general, I know it's not a beauty brand per se, but it's like a conglomerate at this point. Yeah. But I see what they're doing. right now and me being a Sephora brand, it's really

exciting to see how they're thinking about their partners. They just announced a partnership with Olive Young, which I am so thrilled about, so excited about. I think that's the smartest thing that they could have done. So I'm really proud to be a part of that

Sephora family, and I think that team there is is excellent. What's harder? Entrepreneurship, divorce, or co-parenting. Oh. At the time, You know what? No, entrepreneurship. Love that. Entrepreneurship, 100%.

Love that. Because divorce, it's hard, really hard at the time, right? And then you get to the other side. And whether you have a good relationship or not with your partner, I luckily do. But you could be like, okay, we're done. Goodbye. See you later, right? Or maybe never see you again. With entrepreneurship, you get to a point. And you think you figured it out. Uh-uh. The next thing is right around the corner for you. And you get there and you're like, oh, I may. Nope. It's ongoing and it will continue to challenge you. You have to learn about things of yourself and the business that you would have never imagined that you had to learn of.

And you're continuously always put to the challenge of having to grow it and having to become better, which is really, really hard. because there's only one of us, right? And of course, now I have an incredible team to help me. But entrepreneurship is ever evolving, ever growing. Divorce is like a end date and you're done. Co-parenting, I have to say it's at least for me. I've had a very lovely experience. And if anything, I advise all parents, whether they're married or divorce,

to have a co-parent because it's the perfect balance, at least for me. And so co-parenting is a walk in the park for me because I have a great co-parent. So I would have to say entrepreneurship. But you know, it's like anything else in life. Like when you think about something, it's a lot scary than when you're actually in it. So when you're in it, you're just like, shit, okay, got to figure this out. Like, let's roll up the sleeves. But when you're thinking about how you're going to do, that's when it feels scary.

But when you're in entrepreneurship, you're just like trying to catch your breath. Yeah, you're in it and you're working at it and you're hustling and you're growing it. But yeah, it's never ending, as you know. If you had to title this season of your life with one word, what would it be called? I would call it the harvest. Ooh, I love that. I think I've been planting for a very long time and I've been working my entire life.

And this year for the first time, I'm like, not that I could ever be lazy or just kick back, but I'm now finally seeing the fruits of my labor and I'm able to enjoy it for the first time and take a bite out of it and be like, ooh, that was a good one. Oh, my God, I love that. I wish that I had given you this to say it to yourselves.

Oh, good word. I remember this bit. Tell this version of you this. Oh, my goodness. I have to tell you a funny story. So this entire outfit was borrowed from a boutique called Satin Boutique in Los Angeles, which was owned by my really good friend. I cannot afford any designer clothes.

Those were Stuart Whitesman sandals that every fashion girl he had back then. This dress, I think it was Philip Lamb. But anyways, I was a broke college student. So my friend Jeannie had a boutique, and that's how I created outfits. For my fashion blog, because I had no money, she let me borrow her clothes from her store, and I will shoot them. And actually, that's how I met my fiancé is through, Oh my God. This is a full circle moment. Full circle moment.

Okay. To answer this question to these pictures of you, if you could tell yourself and anyone listening one HSR love note to keep going on the hard days, what would it be? You are enough. You are beautiful and you are resilient. I think at this time, I felt really insecure and I felt I really did not like myself at the time. I think more than the last. the look, it was just like who I was as a person. I wasn't satisfied. And so, yeah, I would, and that's something I tell my girls every morning. We drive to school and I would, we repeat the same things. And I would see the exact same thing I would tell my daughters, because I know they're going to go through a period where they're going to be like,

I want to be like her. I don't like myself. And so that's what I would tell her. I love that. Are these all the same photos? Are you popping all these up? oh, I just like went and found my favorite photos. My skinny boy. Like, it's honestly iconic. It's just, I love like looking back at where we come from. Because it's so, if you think about our life progression, it is just so beautiful. But at the time, you're like, I'm embarrassed or I don't like this version of myself.

And then you get to this point. You're like, wait, this is all for that girl. You know what I would after say? I would say you're going to get hotter, smarter, richer. Love you. Thank you so much for coming on. I have the best time with you. Thank you. I did too. Honestly, getting to meet your heroes in real life is so underrated. This was so cool. Thank you so much. And thank you everyone from listening.

And I can't wait to see you guys next week. Love you. When a country's productivity cycle is broken, people feel it in their paychecks, their communities, their futures. What does this mean for individuals, communities, and businesses across the country? Join business leaders, policymakers, and influencers for CG's national series on the Canadian Standard of Living. and innovation. Learn what's driving Canada's productivity decline and discover actionable solutions to reverse it.