How Did This Get Made? - Doppelganger

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

This week Paul, June, and Jason discuss the 1993 erotic thriller that provides more questions than answers — Doppelganger, starring Drew Barrymore. This movie has the crew pondering Dr Heller’s motivations, the 'big worm', ask “Wait, is this an Alien?!” and so much more.  HDTGM Spring Tour 2025 tickets are now on sale for Austin, Denver, Seattle, Boise, San Fran, Portland, & LA at hdtgm.com.Order Paul’s book about his childhood: Joyful Recollections of TraumaCheck out new HDTGM movie merch over at teepublic.com/stores/hdtgmJoin the HDTGM conversation on Discord: discord.gg/hdtgmPaul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheerVisit Paul’s YouTube page: youtube.com/paulscheerFollow Paul’s movie recs on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheer/Watch Enter The Dark Web w/ Paul and Rob Huebel on youtube HDTGM Spring Tour 2025 tickets are now on sale for Austin, Denver, Seattle, Boise, San Fran, Portland, & LA at hdtgm.com.Order Paul’s book about his childhood: Joyful Recollections of TraumaCheck out new HDTGM movie merch over at teepublic.com/stores/hdtgmCheck out our new hats at podswag.comJoin the HDTGM conversation on Discord: discord.gg/hdtgmPaul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheerEnter the Dark Web w/ Paul and Rob Huebel on YouTube @enterthedarkwebLike good movies too? Listen to Unspooled with Paul and Amy Nicholson: https://www.unspooledpodcast.com/Listen to The Deep Dive with Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael: www.thedeepdiveacademy.com/podcastWhere to find Paul, June, & Jason:@PaulScheer on Instagram & Twitter@Junediane on IG and @MsJuneDiane on TwitterJason is not on social media Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using the link: siriusxm.com/hdtgm.

For Malignant to run, this movie had to crawl. We saw Doppelganger, so you know what that means. Now it's time for How Did This Get Made? Gonna have a good time, celebrate some failure, not just be a hater, cause you know you're one good How Did This Get Made? Let's follow in the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps you'll find the answer to the question,

how did this get made? Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to How Did This Get Made? I am Paul Scheer, and this is How Did This Get Made, a podcast about bad movies. And this one was picked by our Discord. And let me tell you.

Wait, this was as well? Is this how the show is now? We just let them run roughshod all over us? Does Discord just sponsor the show? Last week or last time we recorded an episode, we said, well, this Drew Barrymore movie looks like it would have been a better pick than the one that they picked.

And so we just, we made the decision to go with their second pick as our next movie. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So that was our choice. I don't remember it that movie. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So, that was our choice. I don't remember it that way. Okay, by the way, fine. And had this been the pick, I would have rewarded the audience with compliments

because this is perfect for the podcast. This movie was a fastball down the middle for the podcast, I felt like. Wow, wow! And these voices that you're hearing, of course, are Will Arnett and Jason Bateman. Welcome for the podcast, I felt like. Wow, wow. And these voices that you're hearing, of course, are Will Arnett and Jason Bateman. Welcome to the show, guys.

Smotless, welcome to Smotless. This is a movie that IMDB describes as this. A writer with a room for rent acquires a strange new roommate with a psychotic alter ego that follows him wherever he goes. That is the premise. I mean, this is, I mean, wow. It is a movie that came out in 1993, starring Drew Barrymore as someone who has a doppelganger,

or does she? Or does she? Or is she a doppelganger, or does she? Or does she? Or is she a doppelganger? The end of the movie's body horror introduction really throws what is going on into stark chaos. So many questions. So many questions. The last?

I mean, the last? Sorry, Paul, we'll get into it. Do you want to get. The last? I mean, the last, sorry, Paul, we'll get into it. Do you want to get to the last? Well, just because there's so much nonsense that goes on. Please, cook it up, June. Cook it up. Well, I also thought, wow, I can't believe it's been 15 years of this podcast.

We haven't seen this movie. I've never heard of this movie. Never even heard of it. I have seen this movie. What? You did? I have seen this movie before. This You did? I have seen this movie before. This movie is part of a series of movies

that my friends and I became obsessed with in college that were the Drew Barrymore, like Poison Ivy was the other one, this was one. And there are other ones that Drew Barrymore is not in, but we were obsessed with kind of the sleazy newars of the mid-90s. Yeah. You know?

This is a really, I think Drew Barrymore had a little string of these because she was in another, like what was it called? The Amy Fisher story. Poison Ivy? Well, the Poison Ivy, but the Amy Fisher story. She was also in this movie called Gun Crazy. Yep. And I believe. She has short in this movie called Gun Crazy. Yep.

And I believe. She has short hair in that one. Yes, oh wow, look at this, you see you got it all. No, Jason. I read, these are the movies that were not just, cause I'm also remembering VHS boxes. Right. These were also like very prominent rentals, you know?

I feel like, yeah, this is like a little bit before she kind of really came back with like the bad girls, boys on the side, mad love thing. This is like, this isn't a weird bit before she kind of really came back with like the bad girls boys on the side mad Love thing. This is like this isn't a weird moment as a matter of fact. She's like Ari. I mean, she's our age at the time She's a 17 when she shoots this movie. She is 17 years old Yes, and and that opening that opening scene should we not have watched it And that opening scene. Uh-oh, should we not have watched it? Oh, okay.

Uh-oh. Gosh. I mean, yeah, that is a, I mean, there is, I mean, I know why you're saying that in some ways. Yeah. She's underage. Well, no, according to, I guess, the law, she was allowed to do nudity at 17.

So the day she turned 17 is the day they did the shower scene. What? Is that true? Isn't that called child's pornography? No, because I think she could be nude. She had posed totally nude in Interview Magazine when she was 16. And... All right, I'm upset and I'm upset that you know all of this. This facts are...

I only know it because I have the research. Blame Molly. I'm looking at the research. I, you know, I also feel like the reality is, in this movie specific, her mother's not able to be there looking out for her because she kills her in the opening scene. The mother that she kills in the scene is Drew Barrymore's actual mother. But that's also like the reality of Drew Barrymore's...

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Yes. I, um, wow. This, you know, I read Drew Barrymore's book. I love Drew Barrymore. I loved her so much. I loved her in this movie.

Oh, I think Drew Barrymore is incredible. Well, this is why Drew Barrymore had the comeback. From a child, from ET and Firestarter, all the way through this period of incredible rebellion that she's in in these years, all the way through to 50 first dates and never been kissed and all the rest. She kind of held it down. Like, she knew what she had in front of her. Charlie's angels.

These are the options that I have and I'm gonna deliver. And I remember Poison Ivy is great. And as someone who grew up in Long Island, I did like the Amy Fisher story as well. I felt it hit home. I did too. I grew up, you know, I remember passing by, but if he goes mechanics or whatever it was called.

Wow. And when you used to stop there, you never had a thing with Joey, right? but if he goes mechanics or whatever it was called. Wow. And when you used to stop there, you never had a thing with Joey, right? You never- He wasn't interested in me, but I definitely just peeked in, see if he wanted to take a look at the goods.

Oh, wow. I will tell you, I will tell you that Joey, or for a long time, ran an ice cream truck that would come to set. And when we were on the league, well, first I went out to go ran an ice cream truck that would come to set. And when we were on the league, well, first I went out to go get an ice cream. It was like one of the crew treat. And I went out there and my jaw dropped to the ground

to see the man in the Mr. Softy truck be Joey Buttafuoco. I was like, what? In LA? In LA, he moved out to LA. He moved to LA. He was a part of all those reality shows at one point. He was on some of those. I didn't know that. Oh, okay, okay, okay.

Long story short, once I found out that he owned these trucks, I got this treat every time I could possibly get it because the chance of seeing Joey B serving up some soft serve was- Why would you financially support that man? Right? Well, he didn't do anything wrong, did he? Oh, I guess he did.

I guess he did, yeah. I mean, the part where he's sleeping with a high school student, he is, I guess, technically an accessory to attempted murder, but... I thought that he, you know what, now that you're reminding me of the story, I thought it was that he said,

hey, no, no, no, no, I can't have a relationship with you, but you're right, he did have, he did have. You know what you need to do, Paul? You need to watch the Drew Barrymore, Joey Badufuco movie. You need a reminder in the- The Amy Fisher story? The Amy Fisher story?

Yeah, sorry, the Amy Fisher story, yeah. Sorry, Gene, I didn't mean to support that, man, but the ice cream was very good, and it was only the, it was good New York soft serve in LA, and that's a hard thing to get, like bagels. But not anymore though, bagels are back. Okay. Bagels are back? Bagels are back in LA.

I mean, there's Boy Chicks, which just opened up. Courage, of course. Courage. Courage is great, of course. I love Yeasty Boys. Anyway, this open, I felt like it's such an odd thing because this movie is a very low budget, LA, in the valley. Is it low budget? It's pretty low budget.

The ending isn't. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The ending is not. And that's why they're like, oh, I guess they just put all of their money there. And there is like, the opening sequence is definitely in New York city. Yes, for sure.

Oh no, they're on locations. That was a two person shoot. They were like, cause they were like, they just shot her walking around the Plaza Hotel. Like that was, I feel like they just wanted to get that cause they could shot that interior anywhere they needed to shoot that. But that was like, I feel like they sent her on a plane,

that's the budget is the ticket and this camera guy, they shot her walking across the street and they're like, got it, that's the budget is the ticket, and this camera guy, they shot her walking across the street, and they're like, got it, that's our scope. There's our movie, we got it. And so much of any time they're outside, it's the daytime. Like, they can't shoot at night at all, even though the movie, being that it's like

a very neo-Nawari kind of movie, boy, does it want to be at night. Oh, I mean, this movie wants to be at night. This movie wants to get wind. I mean, there's a tree that bangs on a window that I'm like, I feel so bad for that PA who's like, conk, conk, conk, conk, conk, conk, conk, conk. TAMARA And that tree was honestly like number three

on the call sheet. CRAIG I was just gonna make the joke that the tree provides the second best performance in the movie. CRAIG I mean, is she part tree? There's a part of me that thinks that there is a tree element there. I don't know. I wish I don't understand.

Well, okay, I have actual, please. I wanna just get, yeah, let's, let's, no, I wanna understand. I left the movie just minutes ago, not entirely understanding what happened. Well, maybe should we, should we just save it a little bit because I do want to unpack it, but I just want to get to, just get to it a little bit

and just say that we meet Drew Barrymore, she's very conservatively dressed, she's wearing a little bit of a head scarf, she's walking around. And you talk, I'm sorry, are you talking about in New York? Yes. Okay, thank you. Now, and this is why I want to bring this part up here Wait, are you talking about in New York? Yes. Okay, thank you. Now, and this is why I wanna bring this part up here,

because when we see Drew Barrymore in the head scarf, that's important for us as an audience to understand that that is not, there's two Drews. There's the Holly Go Lightly character, Holly, what's her name in this? Goodly? Gooding. Holly Gooding. So the movie has tons of breakfast at Tiffany's,

tons of homages to things. The main guy's name is Patrick Highsmith, which is a riff on Patricia Highsmith, the great author of the Ripley books and all those. There's a million references throughout this movie, which is funny. My favorite one is Richard Wolfe, the famous TV writer that he meets,

which is clearly Dick Wolfe. Dick Wolfe? I mean, think about it. Like, Dick Wolfe and Drew Barrymore still incredibly relevant and successful currently. That's incredible. That's true. That is true. That is, I'm sorry, like, that is the sign of quite a career.

Oh, my gosh. I mean, Drew Barrymore has sign of quite a career. Right? Oh my gosh. I mean, Drew Barrymore has been doing it since 1980. While? 1980. Doing all of it. Doing all of it. All of it. I just wanted to say, just so, because we're talking about Richard Wolfe right now,

there is, we will come to find out much later on that the person we saw that we thought was Richard Wolfe, the big Hollywood producer, is not Richard Wolfe. This is the question I want to ask because when we see Drew Barrymore with the head scarf, is that Drew Barrymore? Yes. No.

Wait, what? It's not. It's Dr. Heller. Oh. I think. So the opening, I believe, is setting us up for this thing because we're watching Drew Barrymore walk through New York City with the head scarf, and then it cuts to the interior of a hotel room where her doctor is kind of going down outside of the skirt of Drew Barrymore.

And at that point, Drew Barrymore's hands are becoming webbed, right? Or no, that's- Well, no, she sees his, something from her point of view is webbed, like his eyes are webbed, something. There is some sort of body- Webbing. Body horror element to it, yes. So I guess, we're gonna, well again,

we'll pull it out just a little bit for the- We gotta piece it together, we gotta, you know, we gotta try. We gotta try. Well, and the reality is, and this is an interesting to do in following League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, because this movie, we're gonna try to make sense of it,

and we're going to fail, because it's a convoluted mess, but I would watch this a thousand times again before I ever watched League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which made, I guess, sense somewhat, you know? It's true. Like, I would actually, knowing what I know now, and that's not a lot at all, I would like to go back and watch it again. Like Sixth Sense or something?

Sixth Sense, yeah. All of those characters, yeah, all of those characters I saw were simply the shrink in very elaborate... Mission Impossible level. Doll mission, yes. But not just Mission Impossible, not just a mask, but a full body shrink. Correct. I mean, he's doing Eddie Murphy level clumps work in this movie. He is an incredible performer.

He is, think about, cause we spend time with five of the characters, at least five of the characters that Dr. Heller plays throughout the movie and they are all radically different. He is an incredible performer. But now, I love Dr. Heller's work. I saw him on stage one time, really fantastic. But here's the question.

Dr. Heller, okay, so if we are to understand that Dr. Heller is trying to set Drew Barrymore up to make it seem like she's insane, that she's a crazy person. You mentioned that Drew Barrymore kills her mother in the beginning of the film. That Drew Barrymore comes home to her house, which Penthouse is on the door.

Always a sign of a good penthouse when they spell out penthouse on the door. You gotta see it, otherwise you don't know where you are. Now, she is hearing her mom on the phone. Her mom's like, ah, fuck this girl. The little bitch has got to disappear, she says. Disappear? Jesus Christ. And then we see Drew Barrymore on the other side of the door hearing it and getting upset.

And that's when we see the hands with the webbing. But now, that is... the doctor? No. I believe that is actual... Because the doctor says at the end he convinced her to kill her mother. That is not the doctor in dress-up. That is Holly Gooding, who kills her mother because her therapist has programmed her, basically. The movie could end with the doctor being the baddie

and the disguises being the way he was able to be mad, bad, but what it introduces at the very end is that Drew Barrymore is two different monsters, um, that are bifurcated and then come back together. And that is the part that I don't understand. So there are basically, there are three people trying to be Drew Barrymore at one point, right?

Because it's like, it's Drew Barrymore, it's her doppelganger, and then it's the therapist as... Does he ever dress up as Drew Barrymore? Yes, because we see the Drew Barrymore outfit on a mannequin. And at one point, when he keeps Drew Barrymore, when the boyfriend, the great guy from Adventures in Babysitting, the Elizabeth Shoe actually meets and has a connection with her. It's such a crush on him.

Love that guy. Love that guy. He's great. When he, he's like, keep her here, keep her here. And then he's chased by evil Drew Barrymore and he's like, she he, he's like, keep her here, keep her here. And then he's chased by evil Drew Barrymore and he's like, she's still there. And they're like, yeah, she hasn't left. So that's, so there's three people being Drew Barrymore in this movie.

Well, and also the doctor both is, the doctor is dressed as Drew Barrymore and entices Patrick to follow him. And then when Patrick does follow him into the tunnels, the doctor somehow changes his mask and outfit to be the father, the father with the scar, then he chases Patrick with the knife in the alleyway. Those are the same scenes.

So the doctor is stopping down to do a full costume, wardrobe, and mask change. And I would love to get this guy's number, because he would be amazing on a set, especially with a little budget like this. So quick? You know, get him on there. We're on a Broadway show

and they have to do those quick changes. Oh, quick changes. Dr. Heller, get him on SNL. Listen, I think that the movie's telling us, I don't know about the monsters, but the movie is telling us that because Holly, the character of Holly, was sexually abused by her father, at that point she split into two different personalities.

Got it. To protect herself, to protect her psyche and survive, right? Those two personalities, one of those personalities, I don't know if they started off as evil or not. We can't tell, but what we do know is that- One of them is sexualized. One of them is sexualized, yes. And is that the bathrobe one? The one that's always in the bathrobe? Yeah.

Okay. But what we do know is that the shrink has sort of taken control of that one. Now, the other big question I have is, what type of psychology is he practicing? What is going on with him? Why is she so in his thrall is what I couldn't figure out because up until the third act of the movie, Dr. Heller is really just a presence on the phone. So we don't see him controlling her, because I think they couldn't show it. Well, we don't know, because he's always in her life.

I mean, I had questions about him when he was having sex with her in the beginning. Oh, yes, but we didn't know that was who it was. We just knew that there was a man there. We don't know until act three. Oh, no, I knew it was him. You knew it was the doctor? What? I did know it was. We just knew that there was a man there. We don't know until Act Three. Oh no, I knew it was him. You knew it was the doctor? What?

I did know it was the doctor. Oh, well. How? How? Wow. Wow, I don't know actually. I'm wondering that myself. I think the glasses?

Oh, okay. And then when she went to her mom's and she said she's just been with her shrink or something, I was like, oh, her psychiatrist is having sex with you. Okay. See, you got ahead of the movie, which is great. That you were able to- Well, I've also got an eye on predators.

And I appreciate that. That's your NBC one hour non-fiction show, right? Eye on predators. Eye on predators? But I think it should be said, like, I got an eye on, like it's like I, like you do. Like it's like, it's not about the general people. It's just you got an eye.

You go to malls, you go to any place where people are hanging out. As soon as I saw him, I would love to do how this get made poll because as soon as I saw him, I knew he was absolutely trouble and absolutely her psychologist. I felt the way that he was like kind of going down on her

felt like he was doing something. Oh, he was... He was fully a creep. He was definitely a creep, but I didn't connect it to he's the therapist first. I felt like he was doing something. Hey, what did you think he was doing? It just seemed like she was reacting in a very intense way.

I feel like he was doing something. I think he hypnotized her to make her feel like he's a great sex partner. Wait, you think there's so much happening in this movie, but you think they just didn't name check hypnosis was part of it? Yeah, I think he was like, he's like, you know what? I'm gonna hypnotize her to kill people,

but I'm also gonna tell her like, I'm also really good at sex, so every time I touch her, she's gonna be like basically like coming at all times. You know what, I do agree with you though. Her reaction to what was happened was incongruous to what was happening. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Because a lot of over the skirt.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Now here's the thing, when Drew Barrymore kills her mom in that next scene, I just wanna point out one thing that I found to be so funny. She stabs her heart, like there's no blocking. It's like bam, bam, bam. It's just like four hard

Stabs right feels like right to the heart ready to go That mom is able to launch herself across the room throw herself across the table Exploding a lamp then get up from that and then throw herself into a glass table. I'm like this is Movie-making yeah bring back there more people falling through plate class tables and exploding lamps. I need to see that. Yes, sell it. Everybody's selling it hard.

And it does feel cathartic in a certain way to watch Drew Barrymore kill her mother who is, who did such a shit job. The way she held up that knife, I was like, get her. Yeah. How did this get me? How did this get me? How did this get me? By the way, when did Mulholland Drive come out?

Because either- Mulholland Drive, hmm. 2001. 1999? Nope, 2001. So I guess in my opinion, I'm like, was David Lynch a fan of this? And did he crib any of this for Mulholland Drive?

Because there are elements in it that make you go, huh. That's interesting. Because it feels like they're in the same apartment complex. Oh, that's funny. That's funny. I like, I love all of the, all of the noir markers, all the femme fatale costuming and stuff like that. I love how much they're playing with all of those elements.

And everybody's doing a great job executing the beats of a classic noir, which I really enjoy. No, I wanna spend roughly the next 40 minutes or so talking about the lady writer. The scenes at Victor's Cafe, Elizabeth? Oh my gosh. Elizabeth.

Of course we have to open with her with a toothpick in her mouth. Because she is. My favorite part is, and I wrote it down before she even said it She's listening to the conversation about the two real estate agents who are fucking everybody that they show apartments to or houses Do it was making me laugh so hard not just fucking those guys their clients, but also tying them up like On the section like specific to both the men and the houses that they're selling.

It was... I mean, that's a movie right there. Let's play a little clip of her. One of the vampires, white and female. The other vampire, black and male. Got an interracial buddy cop vampire love story. It's great. Ellie, you speak any German? Patrick, you know I do. Patrick, do you even remember anything about me? What does doppelganger mean? It's great. It's high concept. We're going to make a kajillion dollars on this. It's hip. It's now. It's happening.

Hang on a second. Here we go. Doppelganger, the ghostly double of a living person that haunts its flesh and blood counterpart. Cool. She is awesome. And she is somebody who is constantly dumping new information. Like I didn't realize that they were ever together,

her and the screenwriting buddy. Not until the end. So I'm glad for that they were. together, her and the screenwriting buddy. Like, no. Not until the end. So I'm sure that they were. I actually rewound that scene. Okay, what are you getting? Because I loved their relationship and I was like, oh no, wait a second.

She had feelings for him? And I think what she was saying is that he abandoned her as a writing partner and he hasn't cared about her feelings. Okay. I don't, I think what she was saying is that he abandoned her as a writing partner, and he hasn't cared about her feelings. Okay. I don't, I think she says, and she says, I thought she was saying something to the effect of, and shame on me for thinking

you were gonna get your act together and we would give it another shot, you know? And you are saying that is- I think that's right in terms of writing their vampire movie. Okay, maybe. I thought it was that they had had a previous romantic partnership, and that's why when the shitty producer comes out, she's basically like, okay, I'm a slut, you're a slut.

I guess we're both guilty of whatever, whatever. I don't know, but you might be right. Well then she's also fucking that real douchebag of a guy who goes up to Drew Barrymore and is like, you're a real handsome lady. Now, I wanted to ask you, Gene, yeah. I just gotta say, Paul, before you say anything else. Please. That moment you're describing,

to me, it was the best moment in the movie. I think that actor is a genius. I don't know who he is. I thought it was a genius. When he says, you're the most handsome woman I've ever met. First of all, insane choice of words. Yeah. Then he says, there's a beat, and he goes, do you like Kish?

Oh. I-L-O-L. That guy is a genius. There was definitely stuff that felt like it was improvised. Yeah. Or just like, people just. That party scene in this. Yes.

Yes. Oh, anyway. The Hollywood party, the entirety of the Hollywood party scene is hysterical. I loved all of it. Now I do have a question about that party scene because this is about the doppelganger thing. I wanna get into the party scene,

but there's a moment in the party scene where another tool that we meet, who also wants to fuck women up in his bedroom showing them art pieces. Oh, that's the rich guy, the rich producer guy. The rich producer guy accidentally spills blood wine on somebody at the party. I mean, the red wine is, it's like,

it is Texas Chainsaw Massacre level blood, like it's red. The consistency of it. Well, he also spills an amount that no cup could hold. And also, you would have to consciously be pouring, pouring and pouring and pouring. It's hysterical. But now here's the question I have. When that woman gets doused in blood, which is just wine,

Drew Barrymore sees that, and then it's her, and then... No, she's flashing back to killing her mother. Oh, okay, so that... Her mother is in a similarly white outfit, and she flashes back to killing her mother, her mother being covered in the blood stain. Okay, sorry about that. So, but what I think Paul's asking,

which is the question I had as well, which is who in that moment is Drew Barrymore? Is she... Drew Barrymore, the murderer, which she did do. She did kill her mother. But in that moment, she is the doppelganger. What was confusing is she... Yes, in that moment, when she's dancing, like, that's absolutely the sexy dance

of a doppelganger. Yes. And so, when she sees the wine and freaks out, I'm like, why are you freaking out? You're the doppelganger. And so when she sees the wine and freaks out, I'm like, why are you freaking out? You're the doppelganger, you're evil. I see. I see what you're saying. If you're Holly, go lightly, I understand. But maybe the doppelganger is shaken

from the sexy dance by the imagery of her mother. Like she's like, all right, real world again, Colin. I think the bloody, the wine soaked person wakes up Holly Gooding inside of the doppelgangers dance reverie. You know what I mean? Because it's basically like one of them has the, one of them has control

and then they're bouncing back and forth. Cause it's the same thing when after the shower, when she comes in and she and Patrick have sex in the kitchen, and then he comes in the next morning, he sleeps on the floor of the... The sex is so good, he sleeps the rest of the night on the kitchen floor, which is absolutely insane. Right, because we all wake up just a little bit. And...

You can get yourself to at least the couch. I mean, but look, that... He's doing a lot of work in that one-bedroom apartment. But he goes back to her and says, last night was pretty great, and she's like, I don't know about that. I didn't do that. Whatever you do with her is fine, but I don't want to hear about it.

I had an issue with that scene, by the way. Oh, really? Yeah, we'll talk. I had a couple issues. June, you're not gonna have the same issue that I had, but I'm gonna tell you this much. You know, this is when Drew Barrymore's in that bathrobe. She's in that bathrobe a lot, right? So I imagine that she took a shower early in the day,

and then we know she took a shower later in the day, because then it's the blood shower, and then she comes out, and I'm just thinking about her putting on a wet robe robe and I'm like, she must be a little bit uncomfortable out there. You know, like I just felt like, I just felt like, is that comfortable? Get out of a nice shower into a wet robe.

I mean, that robe didn't have enough time to dry. Okay. Wow. That's, did you make that as a note? Did you write that down? Isn't that robe wet? I do think the whole thing with those types of robes is that they absorb really quickly. Like, I don't know if I've ever had the experience

of putting on, like, a wet robe. Here's the thing. I don't put on robes. I don't do robes either. I'm a no-robe guy. Yeah, because robes are for women and children. I don't ever want to see a man in a robe, except for Matt McConkie, who wears one quite well. My dear friend. I don't ever want to see a man in a robe,

except for Matt McConkie, who wears one quite well. My dear friend. I live straight from towel to clothes. Yeah, good. That's what we're doing. Good. Me too. This is Trump's America.

Good. I just felt like he's going to be touching up on her, and that robe is all damp, and he's going to be like, it's a damp mess. Honestly, shouldn't the robe be covered in blood from the blood shower? Where did that blood come from? Her mind.

Also, there's a scene in there where in the mirror, we see like the monster's reflection that is her. That's malignant. Like the demon, that's the malignant reflection. And that's where I was like, now what is this? What are we supposed to believe from this? Isn't it enough that she is a bifurcated, you know, person? Does it also mean that she is, like, monstrous in some way?

I couldn't figure that out. It's so interesting, because this is like, this brought me back to, you know, the 90s and horrors and thrillers, like, mental illness, any sort of disorder. And, you know, homosexuality used to be listed as a mental illness, any sort of disorder, and, you know, homosexuality used to be listed as a mental illness, but it was... It was horrific. It was scary, and it was the monster.

Yes. For sure. And so that's what the movie does. Yeah. Basic instinct and fatal attraction are both examples of, like, a person who is somehow, has mental illness becoming a murderer, you know? And part of it being sex. Well, I mean, look, her mental illness manifests as two distinct, like, creatures that are battle,

like, mental illness is literally two creatures inside of her body battling it out for supremacy, while at the same time, the other guy's fucking around with it too. I mean, that the other guy's thing is like the shrink in this movie mental illness is the monster, but also like the cure is also monstrous. So there's you can't win in the 90s if you have any bad people on both sides. Yes Exactly. I'm so glad someone said it. Yeah, I'm willing to say it. There's bad people on both sides Yeah, because and it's like and it's like the the the it's interesting because it's like when when when Drew Barrymore's character goes through the tree

We have this whole pretty great scene in which it is revealed that it's Dr. Heller and we're in the murder house and there's all of the mannequins with all of his different masks and disguises and all the, everything's clicking into place and you're like, oh, it's the doctor. At first I was like, is it the brother?

Is it the, who is going to be behind all of these things in that way that it's, you know, in basic instinct, you think it's Sharon Stone, but it's not. It's, what's her name, who's revealed to be? Well, that's always the thing. It's Jean Triplehorn. It's Jean Triplehorn. Oh, okay.

So when all that happens, I'm like, okay, it's Dr. Heller, he's been behind it the whole time. He got her to murder her mother, blah, blah, blah. And then, nope, he dies. And instead, she turns into two different monsters that look like aliens, that look tall, they look like Kaminoans from the Star Wars universe. They look like they're making,

they're building the clone army, except that all their skin has been removed. It was so bizarre. The other thing about the aliens is that there were no distinguishing features between the two of them. So after we've spent so much time with these two very different doppelgangers, we, you know, two different people and personalities,

then they're, the real essence of them is exactly the same. Although I guess that's what the nun slash sex phone operator... Oh, Sally Killerman. ...told us in that speech of hers. Well, by the way, guys, I just don't want, I know that we probably, we're a Hollywood elite and always as a Hollywood elite, we have access to a lot of different things.

And if you guys want, maybe we could all go in together on this, which is the full size doppelganger special effects prop. And when you look at this full-size, it's gonna be an auction. So, you know, it's gonna be... We'll put the link to this in our show listing. Can you go back to the full link? I just wanna see the alien for a second. What wide hits?

You keep on saying alien. Jason said it, and then I said it too. Well, I wrote it in my notes first as, is this an alien? How did this come in? How did this come in? Okay, now did any of you notice, and I have to imagine it's part of it, although I'm not tracking it at all, Patrick's apartment,

Patrick and Holly's apartment, is covered, the walls are covered in like clippings from newspapers and tabloids and all this stuff. And a number of them are featuring a demon character. At first I thought, oh, is he without us knowing it, is this gonna come at the end? Is he in part of his movie that's about a buddy cop vampire love story, is part of his movie going to intersect

with these monsters and these things, because he's tuned into all of the clippings that he has taped to his wall are about supernatural demon forces that are evil. He's willing to believe her because he's open to that as a human being. And that's why he's gonna go the extra distance because he knows, he knows something's up.

The minute she disappears, which by the way, I still don't understand, he's at lunch. Oh, behind the bus? Yes, she disappears, and I understand that's a noir thing where it's like, oh, I saw you in the street, the bus passes and you're gone. Especially when you realize she's a middle-aged man. Especially when you realize that's Dr. Hella.

How did he move? He's gotta move quick. And then, but yet when he comes home, he goes, were you out there? She's like, no, I didn't leave the house. I didn't leave the house. He's like, it seems like you might have left the house the way that you're being.

But I don't think she did. Okay, so she's being honest, even though she's seeming like she's lying. I think she didn't. I think that is in fact Dr. Heller. Okay. That being said, boy, what I have loved it, if we cut to an angle that allowed for us

to see him sprinting alongside the bus. Which is the only way he could have disappeared. Well, but there are times where it does, like this scene, Paul, where you were troubled about her wet towel, her wet robe, sorry. I was troubled because I couldn't tell. She seemed so upset that he was implying that she had sex with him the night before,

but... it was... The energy of that performance to me was like, she knew she did. She, I think... Wait a second, you're saying, I'm sorry, June, in the morning after scene? Yes, in the morning after scene. Okay. That she knew she did.

I think she knows, she knows she did, but it's the other, it's the, she knows, she thinks it's the doppelganger. she knows she thinks it's the doppelganger right, she thinks it's the doppelganger, but the Implication is that she doesn't have any Recollection of no the doppelganger fully takes over. So, okay So she's just assuming with context clues that that she had well, she knows she knows Well, how does she know well she, she, because he's like,

uh, last night was great. She's like, oh, whatever, you filthy. And they didn't seem like they were having filthy sex. It just felt like they were having, like, pretty chaste. I mean, it was on the kitchen floor of a disgusting apartment. And that apartment was disgusting. Thank God she cleaned it up.

Let me ask you, who killed the cat, Nathan? Oh, I think it's the FBI agent. The FBI agent is Dr. Heller. Right, by the way, that was my favorite scene in the whole movie. My name is Stanley White. I'm a special agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

The FBI, what do you want? Is Holly Gooding living with you? Yes, living with me. She's a roommate, a tenant, running a... That's illegal. Wait, can we work something out? Are you doing her? What are you fucking her? That's a little personal don't you think? Maybe it is

You do realize of course that your girlfriend is the prime suspect in the murder of her mother The murder of her mother about The murder of her mother? About six months ago in New York, people saw her enter the building, go up in the elevator and knock on her mother's door. A little later, her mother was dead. There was no one else in the apartment except the two of them. That's an open and shut case, right? Wrong!

She came up with some weird mumbo jumbo bullshit alibi and got off. Now we know she did't, but she walked. You know, I don't even think about this. I'm just gonna... I'm not finished, asshole! Alright. That scene is... wow. Wow, wow, wow.

First of all, I realized what they had to do. I was like, why is it so weirdly ADR'd? It's like, because they need to hide this character's voice. And at one point when Drew Barrymore goes into the hospital to visit her brother, she's like, I would like to see my brother, please. Why don't I see my brother? And it's like, so weird. I'd like to see him.

And I was like, wait, wait, as I said, first of all, I gave credit to Drew Barrymore. I was like, cool. I like that she's like picking a different voice for the doppelganger, but it was a little... And then... What I kept wondering was, did they ADR the Dr. Heller actor vocally? Well, that's what I'm thinking, because they wanted to put you off the set, and I feel like they really wanted to make the voices...

I didn't know what was going on. I mean, and that, by the way, that scene was like... That felt to me, and I mean this with the highest compliments, like a porn. Like I was like, oh, we're about to get into a porn scene. Like the style of like lighting the special agent scene, the one where it's like, yeah, get over here. Now take off your pants.

You know, there was like something about- This scene has a line that my friends and I would then quote for years afterwards. Whoa, I love this. Which is, you scratch my back, I lick your balls. Why on earth did I miss that? That's a great line. You scratch my back, because at first it starts totally normal. You scratch my back, I lick your balls.

It's fucking nuts. It's really irish. We let, we, this, these movies, we, we genuinely enjoyed the way that we are enjoying it now. Like, my friends and I would watch so many of these crazo movies, uh, in a big group in the house we had, and this, the, you scratch my back, I lick your balls, it is so fucking funny to me. And when it happened in the movie, I had forgotten it was from this movie,

and it was like a, it was like taking a bite of Proust's Madelines and remembering my past. It was fascinating. I love that. The scene that got me, or the moment that got me in that scene, he's like, are you fucking her? It's like three little slaps, but it's like, it's like, I can't even do it justice.

It's so funny the way if you're, if you're this doctor, why doesn't he kill Michael right away? Wait, who's Michael? I mean, not Michael. What's his favorite? Oh, you mean the roommate Patrick? Patrick, sorry. I see, I see, I see. Why doesn't he kill Patrick right away? Because if he's so obsessed with her, like, he does know that he's fucking her.

So... Who's in the van? Who's the guy smoking a cigarette? It's always a bad guy smoking a cigarette. I believe that's him. Who is that? Is that the doctor? Is that Dr. Heller? It's gotta be the doctor.

If you wonder who anyone is in this movie, it's Dr. Heller. Yeah, I guess you're right. Why does the doctor keep all of his masks on full mannequins? Full mannequins? Like, it's like, it's not the, you don't need to keep everything on a mannequin.

And it was so funny too, because they're like, you know what, the audience isn't gonna get it. So when we show each mannequin, we'll put in, we'll drop in audio of what that character sounded like. So we can- Well, here's the crazy thing though. Cause I thought a lot about this in the last half hour, but he isn't just putting on, again,

I just have to question where did he leave his, first of all, did he leave his practice? Did he, because to sink in this amount of money to- Oh yeah, the costume. Costumes, but they're not just costumes. He's not buying the clothes. Right, he is creating distinct, maybe he's got doppelgangers too.

Well, he is stepping into full suits that have weight and body to them and masks that are connected in full skin suits. What if it's like this, it's like, all right, so I'm just looking over, so you wanna be auditioning, you're gonna be one of the costume designers or makeup designers on Terminator 2.

What did you do before this? Well, there was a professor, there was a therapist I used to work for and created multiple personalities. Oh, for what? You want to take money from a young girl? Oh, great, okay. Now is that what he wanted to do?

Yes, he wanted that money. He wanted fake money from a young girl. Oh, great, okay. But the thing is- Now is that what he wanted to do? Yes, he wanted that money. He wanted that money, and he seems to also be sexually obsessed with her. But I still- But he's already having sex with her. Yes, that's true. I don't know, though.

Well, I don't know. Maybe he just did, maybe he was just after the money. Because he says- That's what he says at the end. She'll go away for murder. I think he doesn't want anyone else to have her. And he wants her money. And he has power of attorney over her estate.

You know, that's how it goes. Conservatives. You always give it to the therapist. Always get the therapist right in line. Holy shit. It really is, it's so bizarre. The music at the dance part, when she's dancing alone, the music, the song appears to be called

Sensual Evening. Those are the lyrics that I wrote down. It was absolutely nuts. I loved Sally Kellerman as the ex-nun now. Okay. Phone sex or escort service. What a great sequence. I couldn't figure out, the A, business is booming.

Oh, I mean, and by the way, everyone's gotta show up to that phone sex world. Like, there's not enough to just have the line like fed into their house. It's like, gotta go to work. And they're all like behind cubicles. Gotta get dressed. Gotta get dressed.

In my corporate casual and go to work. And here's the thing, here's why business is booming. I mean, first of all, like it's, this is the recession proof type of business, you know, oldest business in the world, but also. Well, I would say that phone sex. Well, just I'm talking about just sex work in general. Got it, okay, all right.

But she has, and I really tip my hat to her, she has rented a giant office space in a really run down area. And I imagine just redid it and that that monthly rent is quite low. And her overhead is quite low. And she is just raking it in. Well, we also, this movie takes place in a world

in which that apartment that they are living in is $4aking it in. Well, we also, this movie takes place in a world in which that apartment that they are living in is $420 a month. Right. Yeah, I mean, think about that. And that guy can't even make rent. By the way, that guy, I'm gonna say I like him, but he's doing the kind of a dirty deed there

by putting his apartment up for rent and just being like, hey, so I will just stay in the living room and you get the bedroom and we can share the bathroom. It's so shady. It's so shady. It's shady, but I don't think it's like, I don't think he's trying to like, I don't think he's being a predator.

I don't think he's being a predator. I don't think he's trying to attract people in a predator way. I think he's just like, yes, he's lied about what's available and is dishonest. In a movie like this though, we are also presented with two characters that seem like the worst people.

She gets out of a cab and she's like, can you stay here while she goes to look at an apartment? And then she doesn't seem to have any eye on the time for like looking at that apartment. She knows like, I'm gonna decide on this apartment within five minutes. She's like, she left her bags in the car. In the cab, yeah.

Like it's like hard to come by a cab. And like, I just feel like, until we get that, I'm like, I don't, I disrespect her for that. And then we get this guy disrespecting for putting his apartment up. I don't want to be with any of these people. What's interesting is at the end of the movie, Patrick never has a scene in which he,

upon entering the murder house and realizing the events of the movie's plot, he never says, oh, all but two people I've met in the last however many weeks were all the same person? Right. Like, almost everybody in his life is revealed to be Dr. Heller in some way, shape, or form.

Also, though, I mean, I did question his mental acuity. When he's in his own apartment, a plumber arrives, we'll find out later, that's Dr. Heller, and says, like, there's a leak, your neighbor's complained, and then he lets him in, and then the guy just says, I'll let myself out, like, please go. And he's like, great. Nothing else happened.

Couldn't figure that out. I am so sorry. Couldn't figure that out. Now, here's my question, though. What did that guy do? What was Dr. He else happens. Couldn't figure that out. I am so sorry. Couldn't figure that out. Now here's my question though. What did that guy do? What was Dr. Heller doing in the apartment at that time? Keeping an eye on things or maybe continuing to place her under a further hypnosis?

I have a feeling that Dr. Heller wanted her to come out to LA and kill her brother. But then she met this guy who actually takes an interest in her and starts pulling one doppelganger away from the other and creating this kind of friction. I don't think so. No? I'm sorry, I don't think so. Only because I think his plan is she goes to LA,

he kills the brother, she is arrested and imprisoned for it. What he wants is for her to be found guilty of one of these murders. That's what he's saying. He's tried is for her to be found guilty of one of these murders. That's what he's saying. He's tried to get her to be set up to take the fall for her mother's murder, to take the fall for the brother's murder. He wants her to be...

She did kill her mom. She did, but she was not, um... She was not put in prison for it. So when he, at the end, he seems to be saying, she'll go to prison, I'll get the money. That's been the plan all along, I think. Can I just ask though? Sure.

Why didn't she go to prison for her mother's murder? How did she get off? I don't know, I feel like there's an explainer in there somewhere, but I don't remember. I miss it, the many witnesses. The other thing about this movie too is there's so many dream sequences where I'm like, did that whole thing happen or did he dream it?

Yeah. Because he also- When she, like also Patrick's having dreams about her being crucified. Yeah. He's seeing both things. He's having a religious dream about her where she's Christ-like, which is very bizarre.

Do you think, question, do you think that Dr. Heller knows that Holly Gooding can transform into a big worm? Do you think he knows that the big worm is part of her whole thing? I mean that- Has he ever seen the big worms? I feel like he pushed her to the big worm.

It's like, you know, we all got the big worm inside of us. But we- I think you're absolutely right, Paul. We all, yeah big worm inside of us. But we- I think you're absolutely right, Paul. We all- Like, he broke her. It's literally showing this therapist breaking her. It's a scathing indictment of mental health services. By the way, I-

This is a Scientology. I wouldn't be surprised if Scientology underwrote this movie. But you don't wanna see my big worm. Like, that's the other thing is like, you don't, you've caught a glimpse of that big worm and you don't want to see it. And you don't want to see my big worm and you don't want to see me turn into two different people.

No, you don't want to see those. You don't want to see me too. It turned into two nonverbal beings. And I did have closed captioning on. Yeah. I did have closed captioning on. I did have closed captioning on. And when those characters did make noise, they were credited as monster. OK, good.

Because by the way, I was like, why is she going, ugh, ugh? It really is like Frankenstein noises. It is my question, though. So just to go back to the worm of it all, I actually didn't understand why it was a worm. Like why wasn't it just one body that was split into two?

Great. Well, it is a worm that becomes a cocoon, that cracks open, two people come out of it, then those two people come back together and are just the Drew Barrymore character again. Now, that being said, I do believe that one of the monsters does give the finger, a la Holly Gooding in the convertible at the end of the monster scene. Yeah, you definitely need that. Yes, I think that that is definitely in there.

And I feel like this is a really interesting movie that they are really seeding it. Because everybody knows people who like body horror love Breakfast at Tiffany's. But there is this thing, when I was actually, I was caught up in kind of more of that love story between the two of them. The two monsters?

Oh, well, the two, I mean. Just kidding. But wait, but by the way, when they come back together, is that part of his dream or is that real? The two monsters? Oh, well, the two, I mean. Yeah, I'm just kidding. But wait, but by the way, when they come back together, is that part of his dream or is that real? Oh, God, at the funeral? Well, because he, she comes back together, the cop's like, everybody get in there,

and then she's bleeding. Then we cut to the funeral and he's standing behind the casket, the traditional place where most people stand during morning, behind and holding it ready to go. And then he waits. It seems as though in his dream, he and Elizabeth are Paul bears.

I'm not sure what she's doing. I have no idea. And then, you know, but then he would be a Paul bearer. I mean, there's only so many people they know in town. Well, that's, I guess, I mean, that's also why they, I mean, this is the budget coming in here, by the way, my favorite budget cut scene is they're sitting around eating and she's holding a big knife drew, Barrymore holds a big knife recklessly

throughout the film. But at one part she's like, do you want more bread? And she's got this knife and it's like, yeah, I'll have more bread. And clearly that's the only thing they could really, really have on set. Like, did she make the bread? He also, at one point she comes into the kitchen

when the scene that eventually ends up with them having sex, he is offering to make her toast. Yeah. Oh God, they're carb loading. Were they running a marathon? They're broke. They're broke. So, I forgot what I was gonna say.

Oh, speaking of knives, one of my favorite scenes was when Elizabeth, lady writer with the toothpick, when she is in the apartment, she's so upset that all this has gone on, and she picks up the bloody knife from the cabinet. A true murder weapon. She finds a clue. She finds it, sees it, looks like identifies it right away as like the murder weapon.

Picks it up and then is like, why am I holding this? Yeah. And then he says that wasn't there before. As if, because it was deep in the closet. I'm like, he definitely wasn't checking the closet earlier. I don't know. Like who knows? The plumber brought over?

I don't know the timing of it. This is what I'm saying. But I was like, sweetie, just put it back. Oh, maybe that's because the plumber's Dr. Heller. Maybe it is. That's what I'm thinking. I think that this doctor was doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes to like, yeah, to kind of goose

the doppelganger. But I mean, I don't know why he made the doppelganger. I mean, did he make the doppelganger dance sexy like that? What's so interesting is like, make a doppelganger. It's like, the movie wants us to believe that the doppelganger like dance sexy like that? Like at the party? What's so interesting is like make a doppel, it's like the movie wants us to believe that the doppelganger is two individual people,

two corporeal beings, when it is just really two personalities inside of, or two identities or whatever. Listen, I know I'm not using the correct terminology, so please don't come at me. Well, by the way, I'll give you the correct terminology. So there is a, it's called DID, or it's called Dissociative Identity Disorder, is previously known as MPD, Multiple Personality Disorder,

is characterized by the presence of at least two distinct and relatively enduring personality states. According to the DSM-5, early childhood trauma around five or six years old, places someone at risk of developing DID. Now there's no correlation between DID and vanishing twins. Oh, I had a vanishing twin. Whoa, I don't even know this term.

That's why I gave you that good enough pause. That's interesting. So a vanishing twin, a lot of times if people have a cyst or something that they need to get removed and the doctor will take it, they'll biopsy it. And then they'll be like, oh, there's teeth and hair. Okay, so- Yes, that's a malignant, that's a Bezo.

That's like malignant. So anyway, this is the condition that one of our kids had, not a condition really. I don't know how to describe it. Basically it was pregnant with twins and then one absorbed into the other, yes. We just saw it for real. Well absorbed into, I guess, so.

Co-opted, yes. And they get stronger, they get twice as strong, twice as big. They don't really know what happened. Just kidding. That's Reacher. Reacher was supposed to be triplets. By the way, there's a great interview

with the guy who plays Reacher on TV. He's like, I didn't like season two. He took out the action was terrible. He's like, I got in there, and I got in there, and I told him, we gotta gonna go to the toilet. By the way, there's a great interview with the guy who plays Reacher on TV. He's like, I didn't like season two. He took out the action was terrible. He's like, I got in there and I got in there and I told him we gotta make this action way better. And he's like so funny, like so angry about it. We all love, thank you Reacher.

I love Reacher. I love Reacher too. Thank you Reacher. Thanks Reacher. Thank you Reacher. Yeah, thank you. I'm glad we finally have a moment to say it. I'm glad we're all in agreement.

We love Reacher and we love its spinoffs. Multiple personality disorder is one thing, right? Disassociative identity disorder, that's a thing. But then doppelgangers are another thing. And this movie posits that both are true, right? It's like, it's doppelgangers and... No, Paul. Okay.

The movie is not positing that doppelgangers are true. Now I know there's webbing and I don't have the answers to the webbing, but the movie is positing that Drew Barrymore, one being, until the end, one being has another personality that's been developed because of trauma that she's going in and out of. The doppelganger that the movie refers to

is Dr. Hellner. Right, but that's still a doppelganger. That is a person who haunts. Yes, for the majority of the movie, especially in the moment when he sees Drew Barrymore on the street following him in her noir gear, calls home, and we see Drew Barrymore on the street following him in her noir gear, calls home, and we see Drew Barrymore is at home.

You know, so we know there's two Drew Barrymores. So the movie wants us to believe there's two... corporeal versions of the same person. You know what I mean? So he's chasing the doppelganger, but what he really should... But what's strange, I wanna say what is strange is though, and that is a good bit of confusion for a while,

and then it's revealed, oh, all along, there is no doppelganger, it's Dr. Heller. Uh-oh, Dr. Heller's dead. J.K., she's splitting now into two distinct people, so now there are two beings. That's where things get crazy. I don't know! That's where things get interesting, yeah.

But you're saying, Paul, that Dr. Hiller is the doppelganger. I guess maybe I need to re-watch it because, well, but I don't think you can act as a doppelganger. Oh, okay, so if I dress like you and I follow you around to haunt you, that's not a doppelganger? The way that we are told that doppelgangers exist is that they are day and night.

They are the same thing, but the opposite. And I don't think- Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. Yeah, and I don't think Dr. Heller is a true doppelganger. He's sort of cosplaying as a doppelganger. Okay, he is just like a master of disguise, kind of like Dana Carvey's character, master of disguise. Pistachio Disguisey?

You think this is a Pistachio Disguisey scenario? I mean, I'm saying the costumes are pretty good. How much of this was filmed on September 11th? Okay, so I think my question, so I think it's easiest to think about this movie, this component of this movie, if you think about it from Dr. Heller's point of view.

Oh, I've been waiting to jump into Heller's movie. He's dressing up as all of these characters, including Drew Barrymore, including Holly Gooding. He's dressing up as all of these people in an effort, in a very clear effort for him to perpetrate a crime that involves framing her for murder and making it such that he can benefit financially. So it's when when when he need when when Holly Gooding's brother needs to disappear so that his money can be put into the whole fund he dresses as Holly Gooding goes to the

place breaks in and tries to kill the brother. Right. He has no interest in... He has no interest, like I think a doppelganger would, in experiencing what it is like to be Holly. He can't, because he can't get close to anybody, because it would be revealed. Yeah. He's just about machinations. I will say the brother, when they go, oh, he hasn't talked since whenever.

You know, when you see him, normally in movies, oh, he hasn't talked since whenever. You know, and when you see him, normally in movies, and I don't mean to throw shade at this performer, but normally in movies, when you see somebody that doesn't talk, they look catatonic. This brother looked like he had made the decision. Like, I'm not talking. Like, he looked very alive in the eye.

Like, he looked like, hey. I agree. Don't you wish I said something? But I agree so much so that I was like, well, he's clearly, like, conscious. So that's what, for a long part of the movie, I thought the brother was going to be the doppelganger. I did too, Jason. The brother was going to be the Norman Osborn dressing up

as his sister, you know? Yes, yes. And wouldn't that be interesting? This is a very, you know, psycho-coded kind of plot line. Well, I also thought thought though, I mean, I felt the same way like he seemed actually quite with it to the point where I was like, well, has anyone just tried speaking to him?

Yes, he had like a hip haircut. Yeah, like just have you tried? Yeah, they're like, that's like a parent going, he never talks and then like all of a sudden he's like, he's like the most talkative kid in school. Like, yeah, the hospital's not doing the work. I will say, there was one moment that I wanna just call attention to, or actually maybe two moments again,

the relationship is where I really fell into it. When she goes, oh yeah, did she say I killed my father? Or my father was killed? No, my brother killed my father. Right, he goes, whoa, whoa. Bad reaction for a boyfriend. I know, but even, here's the trouble I had with her as a sister, even if my sister killed my dad, in that same scenario, I don't know if years later

I'd say my sister killed my dad. Right. I think what I'd say my sister killed my dad. I think what I would say is, there was an accident at my house. My father's not a good man. And in the course of this freak accident, he fell. My sister was involved and he died. Okay, you seem very suspicious.

Yeah, now I'm like, now I feel like there's definitely foul play in it. I feel like the only person I want to talk to now about this crime is you. It just seems so harsh. My brother killed my dad. It's like, well, first of all, you hate your dad, I think. And what I'm left wondering at the end of the movie is,

did the brother kill the dad, or did she kill the dad at Dr. Heller's request? I think he also has two worms inside of him, too. I just want to read a section of my notes here, if you don't mind. Oh, yeah, the brother lives. The brother lives. OK, so this is the end of the movie.

All of the people he's met in the movie are Mission Impossible-style masks in the old house? And we see two Hollies? Is it the brother? It's all Dr. Heller? Dr. Heller has been everyone? She's screaming in covered in goo now. She transforms into, all caps, big worm? Which splits into two beings, question mark? WTF? And then I wrote, thank you, this is good. I love that.

The thing I wrote down too, and I wanted to just get your take on this, this is completely different, but this is a moment in the movie where I got a real cameo that I loved and I jumped out of my seat this is a moment in the movie where I got a real cameo that I loved and I jumped out of my seat. Danny Trejo in this movie as a construction.

Oh my God. That was so much fun to see him in this movie and he's like, hey, yeah, I'm gonna fuck you wherever he says to her. He's like a cat calling her from a construction site. Right, and he's like, if my sister was dressed like that, she would be asking for it. I'm like, first of all, she's dressed

extremely conservatively. Pretty sure she's wearing white tights. She's wearing white tights numerous times in this movie. June, how do you feel about white tights? I don't feel great about them. I spent my childhood in white tights. Yeah, I didn't like it either. So they're very triggering for me.

You know, it's so interesting. Yeah, she couldn't be dressed more conservatively. It was so, so odd. But just to go back for one second to the phone sex operation, and again, I have so few notes for this business and the economics of it all. I wish we'd gotten more of it.

Yeah, but the only note I have for her is there seems to be an awful lot of background noise. Like, so many women talking at the same time. I wish she could've gotten them in cubicles or something, because they are all full voice. Also, Sally Kellerman appears to be running this organization. She's like the Queen Bee, but she's also answering the phone and asking for people's credit card numbers.

She's the first person that does this. I'm like, you shouldn't be. You should be, yeah, you shouldn't be picking up the phone. This is like an assistant's job. But you know what? I feel like what she couldn't count on was that they were gonna get those credit card numbers

before the calls were transferred over. Yeah, maybe she, yeah. I mean, but also she doesn't seem to be taking them or she's taking, like, it's also a funny thing, like, I wanna get, I'm ready to get off. They're like, give me a credit card. Oh, okay, great. Then you have to get in the mood again.

It's like, maybe it's a part of a, you know, a dollar and a minute. A lot of the cards were on file, Paul. Oh, okay. The other interesting thing about her, though, is that I don't know if anyone else noticed that on her, but just behind her on the little sill is a Raggedy Ann doll.

I didn't see that. Oh, boy. The original. I did notice that in Paul. Or the original doppelganger. Ooh. Raggedy Ann and Andy. They're the same but different.

Two halves of a whole. Ah. I also noticed in numerous scenes, when they wanted there to be like a threat or a something, they would just drop thunder in. As if it's constantly... Who knows? Los Angeles. As if it's constantly thunder and lightning in Los Angeles,

which it never does. Although, by the way, when they were talking about the Santa Ana winds and the winds, I was like, I am scared. Love that. Love that. But this, by the way, but they were talking about the Santa Ana winds and the winds, I was like, I am scared. Love that. I'm scared. But this, by the way, but this is what I'm talking about. This movie does posit supernatural things.

The wall breaks open in half. The window breaks. Like she's controlling, like when she walks up to the house, the wind is blowing really heavy. It's like she is in control of... The weather? ...things. Something is happening because they also do the thing

where they're like, oh, is this an earthquake? And he's like, no, it's the Santa Ana's or, oh, no, it's a construction truck going by. Then it's the Santa Ana's later. And it ends with what does appear to be an earthquake, where the ground splits and the house, the walls split. And this is, of course, when she turns into a worm. So, so who knows what's...

This is in the part of the movie where, who knows what's going on, and I'm thrilled. You know, I don't need to know, as long as it is this fucking... This so, so self-assured, this bit of filmmaking. LESLIE KENDRICKS Confidence. I mean, it really... LESLIE KENDRICKS Confident hand.

She turns into a worm, then she turns into two beings, then she turns back into Drew Barrymore. Like the movie is, like, and this is what I do love, and this is what the difference of like a good movie, a good bad movie and a bad bad movie is like, it's, this director's like, yes, there's no doubt in what I'm trying to do, why it will make sense, and I got it, and you know what?

And that's why, and you know, I'll tell you this much, when you make a movie like this, the stuff lives on forever, and I'm gonna invest in this, not just the body, but also just the full head. The full head. There's multiple. I mean, it looks like an alien.

It looks like it's supposed to be an alien. I'm looking at the doppelganger scream. Yeah, that's not the inside of a body. So what is that? The teeth. You know, that's just hard to know. I mean, I don't look at that and say, oh, doppelganger.

No. I would never say that. It's not like a doppelganger is not a demon. It's not like synonymous with a devil or a demon or a goblin or a. It should be like a parasite or something, right? But I mean, I am, I love this movie. I loved it.

And you know, Discord, you rede this movie. I loved it. And you know, Discord, you redeemed yourself. The second place, always the best. It's like the best picture at the Oscars. It's like, you know, the one, the runner up is always probably the better movie. And the other thing is like, the movie makes certain choices

that I really did appreciate. I really enjoyed, you know, the fact that they're all at that Hollywood party was so much fun. Hollywood party felt like so much like heavy wall toto-wall carpeting and honestly, older people. I don't know if anyone else noticed that.

These are not, this is not young, no, not a lot, a conservative amount of like middle-aged people. Sparsely attended middle-aged person Hollywood party. Middle-aged people. And it was billed as like a hot, like Hollywood, you know, young and talented party. Well, Richard Wolfe is there. Richard Wolfe is there.

But like, I also loved that he had a female writing partner. And that's why I was so bummed that potentially they could have been together. And she was pining for him. I wanted that love story so bad. In that way, though, that the movie is telling us, I feel like, June, here's my question for you. I feel like the movie is telling us that Elizabeth is not an acceptable romantic interest

for our lead character, because she has curly brunette hair. It's a universal symbol for apparently unattractive friends. That's friend zone. That is a friend zone I apparently unattractive friends. That's friend zone. That is a friend zone if I ever saw one. Curly brown hair. Well, that's, I think that's why they also gave her a toothpick.

Yeah. Yes, tomboyish almost or something, you know? Yeah. But she still gets it. She's fucking that other guy. I mean, she doesn't care. She doesn't- I wish the movie had been more about them, her, she and Patrick having a history together or something.

I really, she's, I loved her. I loved her character. I liked that idea that Patrick and her were trying to get back together, but then he's smitten with the Drew Barrymore. Here's the one thing, we talked about this doctor being a master of disguise, and that's no doubt. He definitely knows how to put on a lot of disguises,

but I think he's bad at doing the full body. It's like, it's the, he can't do the Daniel Day Lewis. Yes, he can embody the physical, but he can't always embody the character. Like when he is Richard Wolfe, he's like, oh, let's go meet at 10 o'clock at this restaurant. I'll be late. Why would you just say, let's meet at 10 and then just don's go meet at 10 o'clock at this restaurant. I'll be late. Why would you just say, let's meet at 10

and then just don't show up at 10. They'll go, let's meet at 10. I'll be late. Now that's suspect too. Well, just tell me when you'll be there. You just told me to meet you. I'll meet on your time. But I'm so obsessed with, I hope they get the job.

I want them to get the rewrite. After all they've been through, they gotta. But is there a rewrite? No, no, no. But does Richard Wolfe exist? Yes. No, he doesn't actually. No, he doesn't. Wait, you think he does?

Oh, I think he does only because other people in the business seem to know he exists. He exists in the worlds of the movie because he does come in. Wait a second. What do you mean? I thought that he's created all these characters. So did he like put Richard Wolfe away?

Oh, now that's interesting. I mean, if you start pulling at these strings, it's a real problem. But I guess it doesn't matter. I guess maybe because the director's like, just get them to the worm. They'll have no more questions if they get to the worm. Yeah, it all goes away when she becomes a worm. I'm like, oh, I guess anything's possible.

So yeah, in my mind, he is either killing these people or he's tied them up. I mean, we know that he has that mansion and he's got the mannequins, but like it would be great to see if all those people were actually there, like tied up, like they were captive. I mean, that's a great question.

That, whoo, that's gonna, we're gonna need a rewatch. Big time, big time rewatch. No, obviously we have opinions about this movie. People out there, I think they agree with us. It is now time for second opinions. You're a watcher, you're a watcher, you're a watcher. You're a watcher, you're a watcher, you're a watcher. The movie was a piece of shit.

Yet this person recommends it. Tell me what is the message, maybe that art is subjective. I need a second opinion. All right, everybody, grab your toast with mustard and grape jelly. It is time to look at some second opinions. 128 reviews, 63% are five star, 6% are one star. Tim Wells writes, I enjoy Drew Barrymore in this movie. Five stars. Good computerization. That's the title. I don't know what that means.

This is the one that I really want to read because these reviews are, but this is from Letterbox, I love Letterbox, and Letterbox, the user is Megalopolisstar. So this is the review here. Eh, oh, oh, oh, okay, well, all right. What's happening? No, all right, all right, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, hmm. All right. No, no All right. All right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I guess Okay, man Whoa, hey, okay. Yeah, totally. Okay. Haha. Haha. All right, man. Oh fuck. Yeah

Haha, come on, man. You know, I'm telling you, this is... Whoa. Ha-ha-ha, yes. Hell yeah. Uh... That is the review. A four-star review. Just trying to figure out what part of that whole thing is the shower, the blood shower. Uh... and I love it all, and it all followed up

with Death Valley Girl who writes, my mimic, Pixie Dream Girl, okay, smiley face, mimic. Mimic? I think they want it to be manic, but okay. Mimic because it is a doppelganger, yeah, so that is right. Okay, what do we got here? Any other final thoughts? Would you recommend this movie? Yes, I mean, yes, across the board, right?

Thousand percent. Categorically just one of the best, one of the best, one, across the board, right? Thousand percent. Categorically, just one of the best, one of the best, one of the greats, truly. I mean, Drew Barrymore becoming one of our most reliable, fantastic people in whatever she's in that we're covering, she's dynamite. I mean, Jason, we can talk you into it. We gotta get in those Hollywood squares next season,

all three of us across. Oh, that would be fun, or all of us in one square. Oh, I'd love to do that. We love you, Drew. us across. That would be fun. Or all of us in one square. Oh, I'd love to do that. We love you, Drew. All right, that would be good. I'm sure she'll let us do that. All right, here's the deal. We love Drew.

I hope that she comes on and gives us some more insight on Doppelganger. Here's the thing, we're going on a spring tour and we have some interesting news. June. Yeah, there's a casting announcement. A casting announcement. Yes.

You want to bring us home, June? Yeah, you tell us. Well, yeah. No, I am so excited about this tour, but I have been replaced. I've been recast. This is not a bit. This is not a joke.

No, this is not a joke. There were some scheduling. I had some scheduling conflicts, allegedly. And Jessica Sinclair has stepped into the role. That's right. And will be joining Paul and Jason on this. Now will she be your doppelganger? She, yeah, that's such a great question. And I do think that, I do think that she is

going to, well, first of all, she's taken on a lot of my personality traits. So there has been a very natural sort of morphing, but,phing. But I trust and believe that she will deliver a doppelganger-esque performance and show. Okay. Well, let me just make it clear that June will be with us in LA on 321, 322 and 323, but Jess will be with us in Austin, Denver, Boise, Seattle, Sam Fran, and Portland on all those days.

Go to HDTGM.com to get your tickets. Movies will be announced soon. And here's the thing, people in Boise, get your act together. Let's buy some tickets here. This is everyone's come into the middle of country. We came to the middle of country. Boise Tree Fort Music Festival. You can get in if you got a ticket to Tree Fort, or you could just come see us without a ticket to Tree Fort.

Just get your tickets. In case you are in Boise and you think, I don't want to buy tickets to a music festival, you don't have to. You can just buy tickets for our show, and you can let the music festival know that it can go fuck itself. That's right.

We don't need it. We don't need it. The other thing I wish we were doing, honestly, is just doing a little behind the scenes docu-series on Paul, Jess, and Jason just on the road. Well, I don't have to share a room with Jess, because you and I share rooms. No, you do. You do.

Oh, no. She's a doppelganger. She's taking over. This is gonna be bad for me. You have to, babe. Ha-ha-ha-ha! Oh! All right, everybody. That's an episode of How to Get Made.

Call in at 619-P-A-U-L-A-S-K if you have any corrections or omissions or leave them on the Discord at discord.gg slash HD. Disconnect the Discord. Disconnect the Discord. This is my whole thing now. And that's a t-shirt that is available. If we're gonna make a t-shirt for this episode,

I think we do need a doppelganger. I mean, maybe that's a shirt, just says doppelganger. I think it says doppelganger, but I think it's got a big worm on it. The doppelganger tour, we just rename it. All right, and with that, let's get out of here. But before we do, just a reminder, how did this get made is going on tour,

a spring tour, we just announced a Toronto date. Yes before we do, just a reminder, how did this get made is going on tour, a spring tour. We just announced a Toronto date. Yes, we are coming back to Canada. We have a special surprise lined up in San Francisco. Plus in Austin, we might even do a little something fun that I can't really announce it. We are getting closer. So anyway, you don't wanna miss out on our tour.

Go to hdtgm.com, find out everything you need to know. Movies will be announced about a week before the show. Also, if you're not watching The Dark Web with Rob Hubel and myself, you are missing out. Last week I almost poisoned Rob with a sour pickle candy. Yeah, it turned his entire mouth green for two hours. We are watching everything from Passions to Save by the Bell. It is a bunch of fun and completely free. So check out the dark web. Just go to watchthedarkweb.com.

You can find links and everything there. And don't forget to watch season three of Invincible right now on Amazon Prime. You gotta see what's happening with Rexplode, guys. Come on! All right. A big thank you to our producers, Cody Fisher and Molly Reynolds, and our movie picking producer, Averill Halley, our associate producer, Jess Cisneros, and our engineer, Casey Holford. And a shout out to our Discord for making this,

their second movie pick. Jason may say, disconnect the Discord, but I say, plug it back in. Now, if you wanna join the conversation and have your name read aloud in a how did this get made last looks episode, you can do that by going to the Discord. That's discord.gg slash HDTGM.

And you can voice your opinion on this episode. What did we miss? What do you have in your head that we didn't have? Did you work on the movie? Are you a doppelganger? Anyway, make sure you also pick up a doppelganger shirt in our brand new T-Public store. The links to all of that is on our social media.

That's all for now. Bye-bye. How to discreet. How to discreet. How to discreet. Here it comes.