How Did This Get Made? - In Memory of Avaryl Halley (Shadow in the Cloud Matinee)

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

It's with a broken heart that we share that our beloved Movie-Picking Producer, the incomparable Avaryl Halley, passed away last week after a year and a half long battle with breast cancer. Avaryl was a kind, funny, and talented soul who was responsible for so much of what everyone loves about HDTGM. In today's episode, Paul pays tribute to Avaryl by sharing memories, playing clips of her hilarious work, and reflecting on her unparalleled ability to recognize amazing films. Additionally, for our matinee we'll play the complete episode covering Avaryl's favorite bad movie of 2020, Shadow in the Cloud. Watch MovieBitches' full Shadow of the Cloud episode here and the full Sleepaway Camp episode here Check out more of Avaryl's movie reviews on the @MovieBitches YouTube Channel and follow @moviebitches on Instagram for further updates from Andrew. • We're coming to Philadelphia on 11/8! Go to hdtgm.com for tix, merch, and more• Have a Last Looks correction or omission? Call 619-PAULASK to leave us a voicemail!• Submit your Last Looks theme song to us here• Join the HDTGM conversation on Discord: discord.gg/hdtgm• Buy merch at howdidthisgetmade.dashery.com/• Order Paul’s book about his childhood: Joyful Recollections of Trauma• Shop our new hat collection at podswag.com• Paul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheer• Paul’s YouTube page: youtube.com/paulscheer• Follow Paul on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheer• Subscribe to Enter The Dark Web w/ Paul & Rob Huebel: youtube.com/@enterthedarkweb• Listen to Unspooled with Paul & Amy Nicholson: unspooledpodcast.com• Listen to The Deep Dive with June & Jessica St. Clair: thedeepdiveacademy.com/podcast• Instagram: @hdtgm, @paulscheer, & @junediane• Twitter: @hdtgm, @paulscheer, & msjunediane  • Jason is not on social media• Episode transcripts available at how-did-this-get-made.simplecast.com/episodesGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using the link: siriusxm.com/hdtgm Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, people of Earth. It is me, Paul Scheer, and before we get into today's matinee, Shadow in the Cloud, I wanted to share some devastating news with you. Last Thursday, after a year-and-a-half-long battle with breast cancer, we lost our superproducer, Averallie. She was not in pain. She was surrounded by her friends and her family. And since we shared this news on social media, I have been completely and utterly blown away by the absolutely lovely outpouring of love and condolences that you all have given to her, her friends, and her family. I've been talking to different members of her friends and family

over these last couple of days. and I'm just in awe that you all recognize what A of Rale brought to this show. I'm not good at this. I wish I was someone who could just sit down and speak so eloquently from the heart, but I know that it will be choppy, and I just want you to go with me here as I try to just celebrate this remarkable, singularly wonderful person who was such a part of this show, a part that you didn't quite ever hear, as a matter of fact.

And I think that's what makes it even more interesting, that the reaction to her was so sincere and so connected because she is the fabric of the show. Back in 2013, we had been doing this podcast for a handful of years, and we kept on coming up on this impasse, which was, yeah, that was a bad movie, but it wasn't fun to watch. It felt like a slog. And we had this idea. Why don't we reach out to our listeners and see if anyone would want to help us find bad movies? So we got all these submissions in. And I remember Averill's because she was not only a bad movie aficionado, but she was this hilarious editor. She had made these incredibly funny pieces for like MTV films. When she sent me her resume, it just jumped

off the page. She had this kind of quirky, fun sensibility. And when we first zoomed, and I don't think there was Zoom back then, I think when we first FaceTimed, I was just blown away by the way that she was able to articulate the movies that worked for this show. And since 2013, she has been picking every movie for this show. All these characters, these insane worlds, these movies that I've never heard of came from her. I was always adamant to make sure that we gave her her proper due, her proper credit, because she really did control and help us find our own voice of the types of movies that we wanted to talk about here. And she was specific and funny about the specificness of it. I remember I would send her films, like, what do you think about this? And she would shoot them down 90% of the time. That's why at a certain point, when people would submit movies to me, I'm like, I can't, I'm not even going to do it because Averill has the secret sauce. And it was never adversarial, but it was like she knew why it wouldn't work. And then conversely, I'd be, I'm not sure about this movie. And it would work perfectly. Never doubt Averill. That's what I learned working with her. And I just was looking back through our emails, because we do have an interesting relationship. You know,

She's somebody who was very much a part of my life in the fact that this show is a part of my life. But we had a relationship that was primarily based in emails, and occasionally I would get to see her. You know, when she was in London, just on a trip, she came backstage and got to meet my kids and Jason and June. And we've met a handful of times in person over the years, but this one was really special because she was away with a friend. just happened to be in Europe, we happened to be there as well. And, you know, I watched her interact with my boys. And it was so sweet and so kind. And she was so interesting.

She had these coins that her dad, her dad would give coins to people that, you know, as a, like a remembrance of them. Like we met and they exchanged coins. I think it's a very much like a military thing, right? you pass these special coins and she gave both my sons these coins and these coins are on our dresser my kid's dresser to this day and I talked to them about Averill this past weekend and I and that moment that just small moment that they spent with her they remembered her and they lit up when I was asking you they remember you know the woman who came backstage and and gave them

these coins and she was so cool but she was so funny and and that to me is what is so kind of special about Averyl. When I look at the response, the outpouring of love from our audience, you know, as she's been battling this cancer, when we first announced it, we had known about it for a while, but when we were first brought it to you all,

the amount of gifts and emails that you sent to her were just overwhelming. I mean, not even just overwhelming. They were so hard. heartfelt. And I'm reading people's messages, condolence messages to her and her family. And I'm just blown away because she is a person who you may not have ever even heard on the microphone on how did this get made. But she is such a part of this show. She had her own show movie bitches, which co-hosted with Andrew. And Andrew and I have been in touch over the last year

more and more as Avril was battling cancer. And I'm just blown away by the work that she did there to. Her show is really funny. She's always been very funny. And she opened us up to so many interesting things. I'm so thankful for her. And this loss is massive. It really is, you know, she was young.

And when I talked to her, uh when she first was diagnosed with breast cancer her attitude was so incredibly positive and resilient and as it progressed there were highs and there were lows and we've just been rooting her on and championing her and i just want you to know that i'm talking to Andrew her partner on movie bitches and talking to certain members of her family they are so blown away by your support of her. You know, she made a big difference. She was someone who, I think, made this show.

She set a guiding light for us. And when we first had to start picking movies without her, you know, I had this voice in my head. You know, how do we do this like April? how do we know that this is right and it's something that we all take incredibly seriously because Averill took it seriously she was a lover of camp she was a lover of a certain type of specific oddness she's full of life and love and had this amazing laugh I every time I got to spend time with her I was so thankful that she was a part of the team. And like I said, not a part of the team that I spoke to every single day,

but a part of the team that I looked forward to when I got an email from her. And I felt bad when she rejected one of the movies that I would give her. Her eye for recognizing what was funny was second to none. And I want to, I don't know how to celebrate her. I don't because there's not one thing I can say. But the show is a tribute to her. It's a testament to her. We will continue to work under her constraints that she has, you know, given us.

And one of the things that we do in our live shows is we play these videos, these videos that mashed up certain things from movies that we have done. And she hosted these on movie bitches, but sometimes would send me one on the side. And I would play it exclusively for our live audiences. And I want to play this one because I just think it captures her ear when we were talking about the movie The Snowman. We talked about this character, Harry Hole. And this one is just a mashup of people saying Harry Hole with a very straight face. So enjoy one of Averill's signature mashups.

Harry Hull Harry Hull Her husband asked specifically for Inspector Hull This is Harry Holes phone Ah Great Harry Hull You can imagine Harry Hull

At least I could I wanted to see who Harry Hull was Could you delve into your Harry Hull And this detective Harry Hull The first thing that really entice me Was the Books And Yo Nesbo's Harry Hull

I started to introduce myself To the Books and to Yo, Nesbo's Harry Hole I mean doesn't get any better than that that always kills

in front of a live crowd you know we're still dealing with this hole and we have been you know for the last two years

dealing with not having her around as much anymore and I hate it and we'll continue to deal with her absence as we move forward. And if you want to celebrate her, want to get to know what she was about a little bit more, I implore you to go watch movie bitches,

her movie reviews on YouTube and go to the Instagram movie bitches channel. So I thought another way to continue to show you a little bit more about who Averill was, was to kind of show you why her taste was so good. You know, she said at one time that Sleepboy Camp was her favorite bad movie. So maybe that's a good place for you all to start. Watch her review Sleep Boy Camp. And, you know, Andrew is a pretty amazing guy. Her family is wonderful in my brief conversations with them.

If you want any updates on, you know, services or where you can send anything to, that would be on the movie bitch's Instagram page and I want to why did I pick Shadow in the Cloud? Well, this is a movie that Averill picked of course and what I loved about Averill's

picks is she found the things that were interesting. Like we, I don't know if Shadow in the Cloud it was a typical how did this get made movie but what she saw was there's so much to talk about in it and I'd like to show you how she thought about this movie

by listening to a snippet of her and Andrew's movie bitches episode on Shadow in the Cloud so you can hear her and her element. Also, if you're a Rupal fan, you're going to love the movie bitches channel. What she did for drag race is unmatched. So, before

we do our matinee, I want to give the floor back to Averill, in her own voice, to show why she loves the weird, the campy, the bizarre. And all I can say is, we will miss you, April. You are forever part of the show. And everyone, June, Jason, Scott, Molly, Cody, going back to 2013, everyone knew your name, everyone respected your work. And our, our,

Our hearts are broken, but I do think your legacy will live on. This is Averill on Shadow in the Cloud. Boy, I did, yes, I did film myself watching it because I laughed so hard, I cried, had a headache, felt nauseous, laughed some more, cried again, hours after watching it was still laughing when I laughed so hard, I cried, had a headache, felt nauseous, laughed some more, cried again, Hours after watching it was still laughing when I recalled the events of the film. This is pure madness. Come on, bitch, you can do it. Holy shit. I mean, I think this is my favorite piece of hot garbage this year.

It was some gods of Egypt level nonsense. sense with a lot of style. Oh boy. Oh, boy. Okay, so the basic plot. It starts and well, it starts that there's that weird cartoon of like, oh, the gremlins are going to get on your ship and, you know, I was going, it's a prequel to gremlins by the way. If it is, I'm here for it. I think that was the inspiration and that's what I'm going, I'm sticking with it. Certainly. I mean, gremlins are historical outside of the film, but also here for this. Yes, here for that, oh, yeah, I mean, that's speculations of, well, babies, and we'll get to it. So, anyway, Chloe Grace Moretz lies her way onto a B-17 fortress.

They call it something, like a sort of fortress or something. And it starts, and there's a lot of attitude, and there's this really great synth John Carpenter kind of soundtrack going on. Louis Grace Moretz is doing an accent, she's got a sassy jumpsuit on, and she gets a, It's onto this plane and all of the men are horrific, chauvinistic nightmares. And I was like, oh, that's why this was listed as a horror film as one of its genres. The only horror in the movie is how realistic the chauvinism is. So there's that. I agree.

I think that there's a lot of style to this movie that really makes it. You know, there's kind of like a sky captain vibe to it. There's like dark and, I mean, shabbin. I mean, shadow in the cloud, I guess. But, like, right, there's like a kind of, it's just very stylized. I don't know how it's best to. It has a, it has a feel to it. It feels like someone who is, you know, trying to make a movie, you know.

They succeed. They made a movie. It was the funniest comedy that I've seen all year. The first hour, 45, is, is the horror aspect of the movie. And then it becomes just a screwball, screwball comedy. So if you are watching it and going, what the, what the fuck is this? Why did you guys recommend this? Just hold on.

Just hold on. You got to make it through. Hold on to that plane for dear life because. She's got a real good grip there. Oh my God. What? So yes, she gets her, gets onto this plane. She's got a like a leather camera bag thing.

this is very important top secret general so-and-so you know this is the most important enigma secrets of the don't mcuffin mcuffin mcuffin and they're all being disgusting they say well if you're going to get on the plane the only seat available is in what do they call that the turret like in the right yeah there's a name for it but like the looking down turret at the bottom so yes once she gets down in there the next 35 40 minutes it's just her in the turret hearing listening to them to be disgusting I mean like yeah disgusting men truly horrifying it's it was actually really refreshing to watch a movie where there was so many one-dimensional male characters that you were

like I can't wait for them to die it was very like usually these roles are classified for women just like one-dimensional ditses that are going to be off by Jason one by one and it was just like, ooh, all of these one dimensional men. It was like kind of exciting on some level. Again, thank you for sitting with me as I try to get through my own thoughts about Averill. And again, your love and your support means so much to her family and her friends and they are reading the comments. So please keep them coming. It means the world. Now here's our episode on Shadow in the Cloud, and we hope you think of Averill, while listening to this and all of our past episodes, the movies that she picked

for us. Rest and peace. There are three very important rules. Do not get them wet. Do not feed them after midnight. And most importantly, do not let them steal your baby. It's Grimlins on a plane with a baby. We saw Shadow in the Cloud. So you know what that means. Now it's time for How did this get made? We're going to have a good time Celebrate Some Failure Not just be a hater

Because you know you wonder How did this campaign Let's follow in the mediocrity Of subpar art Perhaps we'll find the answer To the question How did this get made? Hello people of Earth

And welcome to How Did This Get Made I am your host Tall John Shear Each week we take a film We look at it And ask a simple question How did it get made And this week is no different. We are talking about Shadow in the Cloud.

It's 1942. During World War II, a woman boards a plane with a mysterious package. But I want to say much more than that. Let me bring out my two amazing co-host, Jason Manzukas, and June, Diane, Raphael. How are you both? Whoa, this was some wild stuff. This was, you know, I was not prepared. I had closed captioning on.

I was not prepared for it to say, Gremlin, colon, screeches. Okay. Here's June, well, June, your first thoughts on this too, because I have a couple of things I want to get off my chest here. I, oh, okay, okay. First of all, I enjoyed it. So let me put that over there for a second. I enjoyed it.

I guess what I cannot believe. And I don't know, maybe I missed a part of it. Well, this was one of the rare movies that got. my attention and kept it. Whoa. You are blowing my mind right now. Really did. But I guess the question I'm coming back to, you know, that at the, when it ended, I was like, did I miss an explanation of where these gremlins came from? You did not, June. I would like, I would love to tell you that you did. You did not. Not only did

they never explain why and how there were gremlins aboard the plane. The people on the plane seemed un-interested, unfazed, uninterested in examining the where, the why, the how of the gremlins. Listen, I understand we're in a dog fight with the enemy, we crash land a plane, but at a certain point you've got to be like, what the fuck are these gremlin?

You know, the movie opens up with this, like, animated segment based on these, like, private snafu, which is like a series of, like, not PSAs, but like a soldier safety videos that they made during World War II. And there was this idea that, like, who did this? Oh, a grimlin did it.

Like, or like there was like, this idea of a grimlin was kind of like in family circus like, not me. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. That wasn't my fault. That was a gremlin. A gremlin? Yeah, everyone's heard of gremlins. The chore planes, screw up the navigation. They get their kicks from hurting us.

Gremlins are all in your head. We owe it to our boys to stay focused. It's not critters who cause accidents. It's care. Airman. It's your responsibility to be safe. A tidy workspace makes for a productive environment. Shape up. We need men with strong hearts and clear minds. Look after yourself to stay fighting fit. Stay on task. Avoid distraction. And keep your wits about you. Let's keep our skies safe so we can win this war. The immediately I go, wait a second, is this movie going to be about a real life fucking gremlin?

Like, that was when I was like, oh, I don't know what we're in store for here. Which, by the way, I would have been on board for. Like, if the movie had concerned itself entirely with what's up with these gremlins, where are these gremlins coming from, we're under siege, not only outside the plane from the enemy, but inside the plane from gremlins, but they seem, the gremlins are like the sea store? of this movie, I think. I was more interested. I was very interested in the other movie, the A and B story, which was about a woman in combat,

who's a fighter, who knows what's going on and is in this position and stuck in there, even the baby. I mean, I knew the baby was in the box from the first moment. We saw the box, but... I did not know a baby was in the box. I thought a Grimlin was in the box.

I thought she was not transporting Grimlins. I assumed whatever was in the box had to do with them. the gremlins. It seemed like she purposefully got. I knew a baby was in the box from the jump. That's interesting. To me, it seemed like that box is very small. She's getting on the gremlin plane for a reason. That must be the, that's what's up, you know, I don't know. Well, that, but see, that movie, I enjoyed like what it must have been like for a woman who, you know, was a pilot in this situation. I was fascinated by that story. I was even into the love story and the

romance of it all. What I could not wrap my mind or were the gremlins. By the way, gremlins or gremlins? Gremlins. There were at least three. I thought there was just one. No, there was at least three.

She killed. I did the, she shoots one. She beats one to death on the ground and she, there's at least three gremlins. I think it's all the same. And there's a white one, a whitish one with wings. And then there are little brown ones that don't have, they have fur, but no wings.

Okay, well, I did watch us on my iPhone. I will tell you this much. I watched it in landscape mode on my iPhone while I ate, my God, takeout meal in my kitchen where there is a TV. Yeah, but I chose, wow. Well, strangely, I watched it on my computer. Now, my, okay, I'll tell you, this is my experience of the movie. I'll be very honest right now.

I'm not afraid to be honest about how I watched it. I was planning on watching the movie and, like, cleaning out. my closet, which has been a goal for 2022. I love a double duty. How did this get made? I'm doing the bad movie and a task because then the two hours, thank God, by the way, an hour and 20 minutes, amazing. It was a nice time.

But I was so interested that I let go of my task. Oh, wow. See, for me, the problem, because I agree with you, June, all of these, all of these movies are interesting potential movies, the movie about the woman who, you know, not sneaks, but, like, falsifies her way onto a plane, woman in combat, in a man's world, all that kind of stuff, the love story with the baby and the blah, blah, blah, and the Gremlin movie. But the problem was, for me, none of them, it didn't commit to any of them.

And so I never, I didn't, unlike you, June, I never got pulled into it. I kept being like, well, what about the Gremlins? If there was no Gremlins for a while, or if not, I'd be like, well, what about the baby? You know, I'm going to say something that I think also is a way. weird thing about this movie, which is you come into it. Like, the first 30 minutes of the film is basically Chloe, Grace Moritz, alone in the bottom half of an airplane talking to... In like a gun turret bubble.

Yes, talking to people that we've only seen glimpses of. The paper said not to open the package. You shouldn't raid the bloody paper. Staff Sergeant Quaid open the package. If it's right, Gert, I'll take the heat. Sir, I just... That's an order. Clay, do not open the package.

She wasn't lying about the Japs and she wasn't lying about the Gremlin. Tenet Finch, retrieve the package from Quaid and open it, sir. Do not open the package. Now, whatever's in that package is what's causing the failures on this plane. Do not open the package. Quaid, I beg you don't be a dummy here. Please don't do this. Ah!

I got it! I got it! I thought that was going to be the whole movie. Me too. That went on for so long that I was like, oh, is this one of, is this like a pandemic movie where they were like, you're alone, you'll shoot the whole thing in this little rig we have and this is the movie, you know? I thought it was like a Ryan Reynolds buried alive, like coffin movie.

And I was like, but it's weird because you want to have this relationship with all these people when she gets out. but I haven't put faces and names together. Well, that's why they put that stuff in. Where, you know, she would repeat a name and there would be like this atmospheric shot of that actor and who he is. But it wouldn't, it wouldn't place him in the setting. They must have shot them afterwards. It was just like these red and black.

It's got this like very kind of 80s John Carpenter vibe score and lighting. It's got like. Which also I didn't love how incongruous that score was. Very heavy synth score for a 19... I liked it. I liked it. For a 1940s movie, I was like, okay, interesting. But then the stylistic shots of like, who's that?

Is that what's his name? And then just like an artistic push-in on that guy. I didn't know who she was in love with. I'd be like, I don't know which. Yes, that's what I wrote to. When she came up, which one is the guy who's the father. I was like, I'm like, who is who? I don't know.

They're all just like, they all are gross dudes. Like, that's the one thing I know. And at one point when it's revealed, there's one. nice guy in the Grosos. That's the one that she likes. But the rest is just, it was really hard. It's like, it would be like doing

knives out, but you would, like one character was trapped behind a door and like, oh, look at this, you know, this menagerie of characters here. Like, you don't get to meet them. Okay. Here's my question though. I don't know if like we want to bring Devin on to talk

about this, but I have some questions about the sound communication. in the movie. Bring him on. Okay. Well, Devin, our engineer knows everything about World War II radio equipment. So she's down in that special spot that they put her in. Yeah.

Now, in order for her to speak, she has to press a button for the sound to get to the rest of the grossos up there. Now, it seems to me that they should probably have to press a button to get on comms, to be able to communicate with everyone throughout that aircraft. Wait a second. Is this what you were going to ask Devin about, like the intricacies of a B, a fighter in World War II? Because here's a thing.

At certain points, it just seems like she's listening in. She is. Like she's just listening. She listened for too long. She listens for, yeah. Yeah, that's true. For too long.

But when she's listening, but what I'm saying is like, there are moments where they cannot be pressing a button to speak. Oh, I see. Because they're all speaking. You mean? They're having a. conversation. She's just overhearing what's going on. No, that doesn't, I agree. That is strange.

I also wondered if you were on comms and you're man, because she's in a gun turret, you wouldn't be able to shoot and press the button to talk to people. You'd need to be able to talk freely and say, you know, I'm there at my six o'clock or whatever. I'm, you know, you wouldn't be able to shoot and do that. That seemed like a contrivance so that they could shut her out almost when they turn her, when they turn her com off, you know? Well, good news, June, there are literally pages and pages and pages and pages of continuity and military anachronisms listed on IMDB. You can get into all, yeah, oh yeah, people got into it.

I will tell you this. Oh, that's funny. On a USO tour to Iraq, we were in, you know, we were in these big, you know, these big ships and we were wearing the headsets. And you did have to, everyone had to press a button. But you were like a part of the cover. You know? That's why you say over because that means I'm going to let go of the button.

Now you talk. Right. But that's not what was happening. She was just hearing what was going on, but not everything that was going on, but just certain voices. She was tuning into misogyny radio. Yeah. It was like a live podcast of bros just like I got a you in it.

I'll put my thing. The new like misogynist podcast. See, that's, here's the thing that I liked about. Here's the thing that I liked about the movie. and her being down there for as long as she was. There was something about it that was like, okay, I liked the way that things were unfolding. Like she's down there.

She's nervous about the package. Now we're nervous that these guys are going to maybe gang rape her. Now we're nervous that she's got to survive that. And she's now got to survive like Japanese missiles. And now she's going to survive an alien. Like there were already so many stakes. So many worthwhile stakes. We didn't need the gremlins.

or we needed all the gremlins. All the gramblons. Yeah, we're the rest of them. You know? Yeah, it's like Mario Lopez in his hair. Give me all the hair or give me none of that air. That's it right there. I had two thoughts.

That's the Mario Lopez rule of how did this get made? I thought the guys were gremlins. What? So I thought, so when she got into the plane, right? And they put her in that lower deck thing. So like they are the, they are the, they are the, personification of monsters? They are essentially like

werewolves. Like get in this hatch because we when we're flying, we become gremlins. Like we are a special crew. And then I was like, ooh, that's interesting. Like they don't want to see, you can't see us become the werewolves.

So I was building that story. It's like, ooh, that's a crew of gremlin. And that's why we got to see that video before, which by the way, I'm into that movie. I mean, they were, by the way, they weren't not gremlins. that's what that I think that's what the movie is clumsily trying to say is like there are monsters of all sorts there are monsters literal monsters and the figurative monsters of like toxic masculinity you know and she has to face she has to face them all all of them seem it did seem like when she first saw the shadow in the cloud that she what she had maybe seen it before it seemed I agree Yes, I agree so much that that was my headcanon that I started to build is that's why she got on this plane.

Because what she has is going to combat the gremlins. She's here to get gremlins. And then when she was like not, when she was like surprised and it turned out she's just trying to escape with her baby, I was like, oh, so she accidentally got on a gremlin ship and gremlin ship is like a real thing. And the guys don't know there's gremlins. The gremlins seem to only want her baby. Gremlin wants her baby. And by the way, she's indestructible because she does some shit here.

Like, this is the problem I have the Gremlin raise the baby. Just let the gremlin raise the baby. Gremlins can be a good dad. Wait, was the dad the gremlin? Did she have sex with, is that the guy? I heard she lived. I heard her plane crash and she was raised for six years by gremlins. Oh, I would, by the way.

I'm a good one. The fact that they never made any effort, nobody seemed shocked there were gremlins. They kept calling them big rats. They kept calling them big rats. They were human size. Big rats. What? What are you talking about?

Big rats that literally took the baby away. Then the baby is hanging very precariously on the outside of the airplane. And again, it's just a box. We don't know the baby. Do we know what baby's at the box at that point? Yes, at that point we do. Yes, we do. And she climbs out.

I'm all for... She free solos this plane while it's at like 10,000 feet. I think the plane's going upside down. But meanwhile, later in the in the movie, when she's got to like, when they're preparing for the crash landing, she's like, oh my God! I'm like, wait, you just hung on an airplane and like lassoed your baby to you with not even... And this fell out and was like pushed back by the... She's indestructive. She's a terminator. Yeah. Oh, she gets blown. She falls out of the plane. literally. And simply, she only survives because the Japanese plane below her explodes. And its explosion rockets her back up and into the hole she came out of. I mean, what? And without a mark on her. And she again is unfazed. She, if I, if that happened, she, the rest of

the movie, she should be like, did you see what just happened to me? I fell out of the plane and was exploded back into it. Well, no, this is the problem. This is a movie. And I guess, Like, you know, you're in the middle of war, so you don't react to anything because everything is crazy. But no one, the only thing they react to is that the pulling the plane up. That's the only moment of reaction. Even when she faces off against that gremlin in that final fight scene, fisticuffs in the water, like there is no. Like, holy shit, there's a gremlin. Here's what I'll say.

The men in the movie seem more. upset and emotionally, viscerally, furious. They are more engaged on an emotional level with the fact that there is a woman on their plane, more so than gremlin. A thousand percent. It shakes them to their core. They're like, we can't do our job. Is that a real girl?

Is that a dame? Is that a real dame? It was like an episode of, is that a real dame, the podcast? Like, what is happening? They're so upset about that, but they, they're, they're. They don't have a single word for the fact that there are goddamn life size, I mean, human size, gremlins on the, that they are insisting our giant rats. What?

But for a movie, for a movie that is only like a brisk 72 minutes or whatever it is, there is missing one scene, right? One scene where they go, just one. And they give me this one scene and it changes it all where literally they don't believe her. Like she's like, there's something out there. She fires a gun. She lies to them. I don't understand why she lied to them about firing a gun.

I guess because she shouldn't have had a gun. Whatever. She got a baby up there. I mean, she doesn't want them to think she has a gun. I didn't understand why she's, I think that's true. But I didn't understand that. And I couldn't understand why she put her finger in between the lock so that it couldn't get open. It's just going to rip your finger off.

I mean, by the way, I also don't understand why that package couldn't fit on her lap. It seemed like that package was. easy enough to fit in the hole for sure like yeah okay but but I guess what I'm missing is when she says there's something out there like you don't know you're talking about you dumb dame and then she's like no there's something out there like yeah you dummy

you know and then all of a sudden when they all see it all you want is like a moment of like I guess you were right yeah no one ever like no one even acknowledges like oh shit has gone south here the version we get is from Taggart who I think is the Scottish guy

who is like he's the he's so aggressively misogynistic towards her, and he's so, he pushes her into the gun turret. He's so, like, you know, like, when she finally does emerge, when she free solos the plane and climbs back in with her baby, she's spent, like, now minutes on the exterior of the plane, she climbs out to the, she gets to the wing, she gets the baby, she climbs back in. He's fighting a gremlin. And he says to her, his final lines, his redemptive line is, get that baby out of here, you idiot, and then he gets sucked out of the plane by the gremlin.

It was like, this guy is going down swinging. He is like, get that baby out of here, you idiot. Look, he loves that, like, he loves that baby. You know, there is so much here that is so, like, I get that it's a midnight movie. It's a genre movie. It's a horror movie. And it's like trying to hit you on all these things, but it just doesn't feel like it almost feels like it crashed mid-movie.

Like, it is going towards a place and then it just sort of like everything goes off the rails in a way where I couldn't figure out. I think what it was hard for me is there is so many, there's such high emotional stakes to it. And it's got great dogfight action set PC kind of like, you know, planes are shooting at them while the ground. A lot of stuff is happening.

but they, I felt like the, the emotional weight was never there. Like, every time the, when, when Chloe Great Moritz would, like, interact with the baby, I was like, I feel like she just met that baby 30 seconds before they put the baby in her arms and we're like, okay, we're going to go, ready? Okay, here's the baby, great, we're going to set the baby in the box. Okay, great, go. You know, like, I didn't feel like, and same for the actor who's revealed to be the father of the baby.

Like, I didn't feel like the emotional weight was there. Because it all happened off screen. Like you have no connection between any of these characters. I wasn't inside of their love story at all, you know. And while we're on the subject of Taggart, I just want to talk about this crew. Is this an American crew? Because it also is like... No, they're super international.

There's a British guy. There's a Kiwi. There's a... It's the Allied forces. It's like a whole rag tag group. But they do, again, no favor. because for 80% of the movie, they are just voices on a radio, you know?

I know. I do wonder, you know, so it came out in 2020. Like, I do wonder the choice to have her down there for that long. It did really feel like something must have happened. It felt pandemic-y to me. Very much so. Now, I did, you know, I did love the choice of her being in that little area and thinking that her child.

child had died, like, and having her, I mean, she had to do a shit ton of acting down in that little I think she carries a lot of the weight on her shoulders and does an amazing job, but I will tell you one thing. I mean, she does her best to carry the whole movie. Like, almost nobody else gets screen time for the most part, you know? Yeah, and I think the only thing that I felt bad about, because I do think that she is very good in this film is when she dropped the accent, I didn't really notice it. Like when they, hey, wait, she's talking different. Oh, yeah. Is she? And like, I thought the, the accent was, well, she had been doing a real British, British accent, you know? And then she dropped it and became American. I guess what I have a trouble with is maybe like a 1940s

accent and a British accent were close enough that I was like, oh, I didn't, I didn't read it a one way or the other. A 1940s American accent? I just, like, hey, yeah. I'm getting in that ship and I'm going to go go over there. I'm British. You see? We're going to go get in the lorry and You get in the lift. Come on there. This is, I mean, I'm so shocked you don't get more period work. You don't work more in period films. I'm trying.

I got a accent work. Yeah. Hey there, boy. You think I'm over here? I'm a classic brick. I want to hear your monologue for the old audition in that accent. Hey, you want to come on down to the beach? I got to go to a beach thing.

Yeah. We've been there since 1940. No, listen, here's where I, you know, obviously, I just had a birthday. I'm getting older. but I was watching the movie and I'm like, I feel really like I'm watching. I thought she was great and I enjoy watching her but I'm like, is she like a 12 years old?

And then I just was like, oh, I'm just getting so much older that when I see someone who's like, oh, this isn't an adult woman, this is like, this isn't a coming of age story. Like this is a story about a grown woman. She's a grown woman. It was just, did anyone else have that? But maybe I'm just like,

No, this happens to me all the time in this exact same thing where I think a young, especially it happens, like Chloe Grace Muritz is a great example. I feel like I got to know her when she was quite young because she was hit girl in the kickass movies and she was a kid. So the idea that she's now not just an adult who absolutely it's organic for her to have a child, but in my mind I too was like, oh, no, the kid has a baby. And I'm like, oh, wait a minute. No, that's like a 30-year-old woman, probably, who has a baby. That's entirely appropriate in 1942. She would be a middle-aged woman. Yes, she's close to death.

And she's probably actually, like, an older mom. Yeah. It was just so confusing, and I'm having a hard time connecting sometimes. She is 23. She's 23 when she made this movie. So she's still pretty young. Oh, she's still young. Still, by the way, probably not too young for the role.

No, no. No, because it's like you're thinking about these soldiers are getting into the They're all young. They're all young. The whole cast is super young, you know. But she just seemed so young to me. I was like, I'm watching a child. Yeah, I agree.

Can I say one thing that when I- thought she was even older, but go ahead, yeah. When I typed in Shadow in the Cloud on Google, one of the first things that showed up was based on a true story. And then I clicked that. I clicked it. And I was like, wait, how does anyone, how is that one of the most frequently asked what?

based on If you watch the movie Based on true story Is that true? Should that happen? How could that Like the fact that that is that often asked? Yeah.

Yeah. There was, I will say It is a testament to her kind of star power That the movie even is watchable at all Because it is so it is so much of it is static. It's just her in the turret. And then the rest of it is so chaotic and geographically confusing. Who's where, when, who's who, who are these actors?

And when she comes up out of the bubble, I was like, is the guy that she was in love with still alive? Do we even know which one of us? Like, we keep seeing bodies on the ground. I know. I think she was great. But I was really connected to the basic story. Okay. And even seeing her at the end, that last moment, even though they're a ground.

Remlins running around and nobody's told me why or how or where, even that last moment where I saw her breastfeeding, you know, I was like, God damn it, if this doesn't make me feel something. And I am absolutely intrigued by the premise of this story. So it really, I really did connect to it. And I did. And I was like, oh, I was so wish, because I think this could have been an incredible movie. about a woman who's in this situation minus gremlins. Well, that was, that's the thing is

you can't have all these things because then it's like, are you, it becomes too much. It's like too, it's a hat on a hat on a hat, right? It's not just I have to protect my baby. It's I also have to fly and land this plane. It's also I have to fight this, these gremlins. Like, I would have like to basics.

Yeah. Snakes on the plane was only about snakes on a motherfucking. There were no babies. There's snakes. Like it wasn't like there are, oh no, there are wolves on the plane or like, it's gremlin. You have to answer, where are these gremlins from? And why are they called gremlins? They, I mean, why are they called gremlins?

And are these aliens? Like, I also was like when they crash landed and then she goes out, she goes out and she beats the shit out of a great. She beats a gremlin to death with her bare hands. I enjoy that. Basically breaks his jaw into his own skull. She uses the gremlin's taloned hand and does the why are you hitting yourself thing, kind of. And kills the gremlin with the gremlin's own taloned hand. The gremlin never bites her or never gets a hand on her.

It doesn't matter. That's fine. I kind of wanted, though, at the end, for her to be what you're describing, June, is that final tableau of she's done it. They've rescued the baby. there was a couple of people left to life. I kind of wanted like over the crest of the hill for there to be like hundreds of gremlins. Yes.

I was, let them land on Gremlin island and then tell me, guess what? Gremlins are part of the mythology of this story. Well, but this is like, again, and this is where my mind is going and this is what it's like to, you know, to watch a movie with me. When she put the baby on her breast,

which I thought was actually a very, you know, the breastfeeding moment It was a very cool visual for the end. I don't know if I feel like it worked, but I like that. Super cool visual. No, listen, I didn't know, like, how her milk didn't dry up after all that trauma. I mean, she had, she had been hanging off a plane.

I'm glad we're talking about this. I'm glad we're talking about this. And she was still lactating. She was still just, she was, well, in a lot of takes, in a lot of scenes, you can see that she's leaking. She's leaking milk. You can see it. It's out there. Well, I mean, that was a trap in the giveaway.

The gruelens gets. That was a dead giveaway that it was a baby in the box. But I thought at the end, the baby would be like, it would be like, I'm going to put this baby in my breast. And then the final scare would be like, like, and the baby was a Kremlin and bite her in the chest. Oh, I never thought that. Yeah. I never thought that. But I was, I did think like somehow these gremlins have to win, right?

Like, or not win, but they have to have like a. The one that she fights and punches in the face with his own fist. I'm, like, that one fell from the fucking sky and it's fine. That's the one that she chopped its tail off and it had wings. Like, we think she kills it, but then it sprouts wings and flies away. I thought that was a great moment. I did, do. There were a couple of moments like that where I thought it was really well directed where, like, she, when she, and I agree, the geography was insane, not seeing anybody up there.

Like, here's what I justified. I was like, something happened. It is pre-pandemic, but something happened with this cast or the. the plane or something where they could not shoot anything up there. Or they just didn't have the budget. Like something major must have gone on. How much do you think this movie cost? $7 million.

I bet more than that. Like $20 million? 10. 10 mil. I mean, it's not a not a small budgeted movie. I guess there are some really big. There's a couple of exteriors. There's a couple of, but there, but it is sort of like at a certain point it's like a one

woman show. Exactly, for a lot of it. I was going to say, would you guys help finance me? To do that up? Yeah, on the West End. Only if you're lying, baby. Only if you breastfeed. I would have, yeah, there was a lot of, to me, to me, this could have been like alien, right?

Yes. Like, oh, no. Oh, no, there's a gremlin. on the ship or there's gremlins on the ship okay and there it could have had like for i think for me there was too much going on and that's why the movie ultimately kind of didn't work i enjoyed parts of it but if it would have you would have i would have liked more of the horror gremlin's movie and i didn't need the the one of gremless fight i didn't need her what did you say i said you wanted gremless that's the shirt a little grimless

Gremlis. Oh, by the way. Gremelers? It really, like, that element of it, I would have liked almost more of her in the plane with the other actors and the gremlins. So we would get to know the ensemble better. We would get to understand the stakes better. Yeah. And that the threat was truly these gremlins.

Somebody need to be transporting gremlins. They need to be a rumor about gremlins. We can't be talking about this much. a movie that has gremlins in it and have none of the main characters really be like, what the fuck is up with these gremlins? Snakes on a plane.

They tell you how those snakes. They don't just say that snakes are on a plane. They tell you how the snakes get on a plane. And grimlins, you understand the rules of the gremlin's why they even exist. Every one of these movies, the thing, you get it. Like, you get alien, you get it. Here's a couple questions, though, that are grimless.

The baby in the box. I didn't see too many holes. in that box. No, that was so that's why I knew there was a baby in the box because in the very beginning when she's packing up the box

in that montage sequence there's like an air there's like a little ventilation patch on the box. It's the speaker area for it because it's a radio bag she calls it. Okay, so yes, that was down on the lower right hand side

which would mean that the baby like that's a still that baby was tucked in in a way that the blanket is probably covering that thing. That is my thing. I was like the baby, like the baby's arm and head in a blank because that baby is swaddled to the, yeah.

I want to say shame on this movie for there's a moment where she crash lands the plane. And they give the one and only fantasy sequence in this movie is she visualizes her dead lover and dead baby. Like she visualizes, I'm going to turn around and I'm going to, but the movie shows it to you in a way that is almost. as if it's really what's happening. But I thought all of those visualizations, I thought all of those were fantasy sequence like that one. But in this one, it's like you see the baby thing is crushed

and the lover is on the floor dead and there's blood seeping out of the radio box. And I was like, oh, fuck. And then it cuts out and it's clearly a, it's a fantasy. But I was like, hey, man, don't make me think the baby is dead. Don't, don't do this just to get, just to zap me, you know?

Like, she did it. Yeah, it's a very hard fantasy sequence. It felt manipulative to me in a way that I was like, I don't appreciate this. I'm not like seeing even like dream baby blood. Exactly. It was too much for me. It was just too much for me. Yeah.

Also, I mean, this is just dumb little stuff, but she says at some point, we have to crash land. We have to dump the fuel and dump all the cargo or we're going to explode. They do neither of those things and they crash land and it explodes, but they manage get away. There was just like dumb little stuff that I was like, I don't, again. I did anybody. Okay, I laughed so hard when that gremlin whose tail she cut off and started flying back to her when she was just trying to throw out like various pieces of cargo to try to hit. Just to try and drop it on the ground. Like that, you really have to have like incredible aim. Hundreds of hours, hundreds of miles per hour. Hey, look, she's actually one of those

great people at a carnival that can drop like the circles over like the pyramid and then you get a big prize. I left so hard at that and I left so hard also at her with a piece of pipe trying to catch the baby who's like 10 feet away. Yes. I was like you are traveling, you are traveling at hundreds of miles an hour, thousands of feet in the air. Her face wasn't even like really rippling her hair. She's no shear. There's no wind. There's no, they're in a dog fight.

The plane must be doing even. evasive maneuvers because they're getting shot up by the Japanese aircraft that are attacking them. She is just reaching out with that pole going to catch this baby on a stick. I was like, what is happening? So again, I know, I don't want to keep on circling back to it, but why do the Grimlins want that baby so bad? Or why do they want that plane? No, they want the baby. They want the baby.

And I think they wanted the baby before she got on that plane. Well, that's what I'm asking. Or did the gremlins show up because of the baby? Do the gremlins work for the abusive husband? Was this plane just riddled with gremlins and she happened to get on it? Uh-oh, the gremlins want the baby now. Well, but the minute she sees that guy in the beginning, right, who gets disappeared right before she gets on the plane, right? She's in the air force.

She's in the airfield. There's a guy in front of her. And then he goes, and so the gremlins are on the ground. And she says there's on the wing, she sees the hydraulics have been ripped out. And she mentions it to the crew. And the crew's like, you didn't see that. You're like when they're saying, shut up. There's a dame, you know, she doesn't know anything.

You know, whatever. There's just a lot of questions about why, like, are Grimlins mischievous? Or are they baby, like, or do they want that baby's blood? Because I also feel like they took the baby, like, the way that you would be like, oh, I'm going to save this for later. Like, you know, like, why not tell us like, oh, Hitler invented Gremlins in this world? Or the gym. Japanese, because when the Japanese are underneath.

Yes, they have, in this World War II story, the Nazis have gremlins. They've succeeded in their supernatural. The secrets of the lift clothe stuff. Exactly. I didn't think, I think you're right, Paul, that it was, you know, I think the war was a backdrop to what was happening with the gremlins, that the gremlins wanted to take that baby somewhere else and do something, either make it a gremlin or make hybrids or some such. Well, because here's my thought.

I think that the gremlins look like, remember that movie we watch sleepwalkers, whereas like the mother and son who are the cats? Oh, my gosh. I mean vaguely. Aren't there a bunch of dead cats hanging in a tree? Yes. That's, I think the only thing I remember. I don't think I was there for that.

You 100% were because, oh, I remember, they were an incestuous mother and son, would you refuse to believe? was an incestuous mother and son. Did you think that they were a couple? Yes. Yeah, you were very upset about the mother and son there. I can't remember. There was some, there was some funny conversation about that.

Nothing is sparking anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lauren Lapis was the guest. Oh, that's funny. And but there's a really famous scene where like a cop is trying to pull over a man cat and he's like, and his face turns into like a man cat. But they looked like hair, they look like. the cats from sleepwalkers.

When the gremlin is on the outside of the bubble and it's like tongue starts to expand and get big. Ooh, I didn't like that. I was like, what is this? Let it do something. I thought it was going to like. They were just flexing. I thought it was going to spit acid

so it could get into the bubble. Or I didn't understand. Like they give you specifics, but they don't give you specifics. They don't follow through. You don't get third act explanations. There's no, this movie, no exposition. Not enough time.

No exposition. I was like, what? These men and this woman have survived, and this baby, have survived an insane thing. A plane crash, a dog fight, a war itself, a misogyny, the threats to a baby. But the highlight should be, we saw gremlins and we fought them. Like, what the what? And won. You know, that one shot, you're right.

Like, I never knew. I really didn't know what the gremlins could do. Like, did they ever really kill someone or just sort of throw them off the planes? They do. They do. They also seem to be mostly like pulling the plane apart midair. They're destroying the engines. Very unsettling.

They're just tearing. They seem to, exactly. That's why the guy's like, there's a big rat. Like, is that what they are? Are they just like rodents that have infested the- Rats of the sky, like pigeons? Yeah, they've infested this plane and they're just going to- These are not real, though.

It's like, it's like, like, this is like, like, I can get under, I can understand, okay, there's a, like, they seem to have ill will towards our, like, our group in particular. Or like, why do they need three to bring them this plane? They are, they seem like the villains in a way that I'm like, what is their motive? What is the gremlin's motivation? If it crashes, don't they die? No, well, because at least one of them can fly. Okay. And I guess the other question, the other question I have is this.

And this is like, off on another. Are these aliens or are these just a species? I thought they might be aliens. I assumed aliens as well, but are these just a species of animal we haven't seen before? One of the best things about... I thought they were vampire bats at one point. I was like, are these going to be vampires? I mean, none of it really makes any sense.

But I'll ask you about this because this is another trope that I noticed, and this is off Grimlins again, just to every now and then bring it away from Grimlins and ask you this. A lot of times in these movies, like people are being... very pessimistic in a moment where it feels like total shock should be happening. Like when they're about to crash that plane, they're not going to make it, you're not going to make it, you're not going to make it. And I was wondering, first of all,

does that help? Would you do that? If you were in a moment, like Dom Torretto shooting off the, you know, thing, like once you're in mid-flight, once you are in free fall, don't you want to be a positive? It gets very quiet, actually. That's what I would imagine. I mean, do you think that you would be June?

And like, if you and I were, you know, flying off a cliff, do you think you would hold your criticism back here? Because at that point, what can we do? We've already committed to making it. So at that point, I just, I always find it such a funny, weird thing that people are so pessimistic in the middle of a moment of life and death. Like, my last thing I said is, take the baby, you dummy, and we're not going to make it. Like, your last words are, I'm not going to make it is really like a dark. They also execute a crash landing that is so insane and so like bananas. Like they don't just crash land.

They have to do a full 180 in the plane in order to crash land correctly. And they execute it flawlessly. Like they execute something that I suspect is it literally impossible and do it. And it is so funny to me. That's the thing is like everybody is just doing stuff in a way that I was like, okay, cool, you're all like badasses in the air. Fine. Still gremlins. Guys, wouldn't you still be saying, what the fuck was that? What was, what was that? What did they want? Where did you, where did we pick them up? Like, I know. I will tell you, I will tell you that Casey has. a... Gremlin? No, she has a cousin.

His name is Jimmy Jet. He is a former airline pilot. Okay. And Jimmy Jet was, well, he worked for like Delta and they retired. Is his name really Jimmy Jet or that is like... Yes. Wait, so his name was Jimmy Jet, but he calls himself Jimmy Jet. Got it.

I was going to say, if your name is Jimmy Jet, you have to become a pilot. And Jimmy Jet maintains that he has seen not one, not one. Not two, but dozens of aliens up in the sky. Oh, yeah. No, this is a big thing. This is a big thing. Now, I think, I'm pretty sure Delta asked him to not return after he started publishing his newsletter. But, um.

Wow. We have to get it. So, but, but I will say that it occurred to me watching the movie. Like maybe at one point I thought maybe these guys have just seen so many creatures up there. Sure. Yep. that they are nonplussed. Well, it also, it reminded me, of course,

of the Twilight Zone, famous Twilight Zone episode with William Shatner. Yes. Where there's a monster, is it William Shatner? Where there's a monster of the wing. Yeah, exactly.

A monster on the wing of the plane. And so when it started, I was like, oh, is this going to be like one of those kind of stories? Is this a... And then when the close captioning told me that it was a gremlin, I was like, oh, here we go. This movie is going to be gremlins on this plane. And then it kind of was, but it also kind of wasn't.

Like, they were just as concerned about other things as they were about the... Again, I'm obsessed with the gremlins. And also, I can't believe that we're allowed to call them Gremlins. Well, Gremlins actually was created by Rodol, right? Or is that how you pronounce his name? Oh, is that? I didn't know that. Okay.

Yeah, he actually came up with that term in his first children's book. Oh, wow. To, uh, he, and the Gremlins were fighting against, fighting humans because of deforestation. But he was a pilot. The Joe Dante Gremlins is not an adaptation of the role doll Gremlins. No, no, no, no, yes. But that term Gremlin's been around. Since he was a fighter pilot, his first story was about Gremlin's.

And then Gremlin's became a whole thing. Oh, that's interesting. Okay. But now I do have a question about, well. I like then that, okay, so I take it back. So I like then that this movie, which I did not know, and I guess I could have inferred from the cartoon at the beginning, that this movie is taking an actual thing

that pilots would describe something bad, shoddy workmanship as gremlins having gotten at it and it has actually said, what if really gremlins were the cause of the plane's problems? What if actual gremlins rather than just bad workmanship, right? That's what this movie's launching point is? What if that saying or that phrase was actually true? And that the engine failure was due to not,

Not because the mechanics did a bad job, but because an actual gremlin is tearing out the wiring. By the way, I will, I want to just, because I just Googled it to make sure I was right. It did start among airmen. Okay, so like this, and Roldahl, like, popularized it. So there was this idea that there are, yeah, spirits, fairies, leprechauns, and gremlins.

And so basically there was this. You know, this, it got very popularized during World War II, but it was even starting in 1938 about these mystical creatures, you know, and there are a lot of servicemen talked about these grimlins. So, I mean, Britain saw the first grimlins. That's basically all we know. They're the product of a machine age. They believe it was a passing of the buck, important to the morale of the pilots,

that it wasn't their fault. It was another person's fault because. They were such a complex machine, so they didn't want to be blamed for any of these things going wrong. So, wow, wow. Okay. I mean, I don't mind. That's interesting. They chose to, like, take that and make it, like, an actual thing. Like, oh, an actual gremlin. But then I feel like they just did, that's what they did. They did that alone. And they did. I mean, this is really funny. It's really funny that they created, like, a fake person to help boost the morale. Because listen to these ads, Grimlins are floor greasers. So watch your step. Grimlins love to pitch things at your eyes, so wear safety goggles. These are real. These are all real. Grimlins will push you around, so watch where you're going.

Grimlins will get you if you don't watch out. Why help little grimlins, you know, dust in the corner. It's like they basically are creating someone not to make you feel bad for fucking up, which is a really, like, amazing and weird thing to do. Yeah. To basically, like, to be like, hey, it's not your fault. It's a scapegoat. Yes.

It's a scapegoat to cover up, you know, bad workmanship on complicated, on flying machines. Well, then maybe, yeah. I guess that was the whole point of the story, right, that she was more capable. She saved them from the... The mechanical problems that these literal gremlins were caused. Yes, but she also saved them from enemy fire. And she was... save them from their incompetence in a way

and I guess I guess that's all the explanation we needed about the gremlins I guess so I guess I would have liked a little more I would have liked to have known like what's like where these gremlins come from I just say well I mean

what's up with these gremlins I would have loved her to be at the end like what's up with these gremlins well not only is she like all right so she fights gremlin she hangs out on the airplane she's got this baby She's transporting it. She writes her own fake letters.

She's good at shooting a gun. She's good at beating up people saving the day, exploding. And all of that. And she, I think, creates the term, shoot your shot. Because at one point, she turns to the pilot of this plane and says, you got to shoot your shot. Oh, really? Yeah. And that, to me, made me laugh.

I also didn't understand. She at some point says, you have no idea how far I'll go. You have no idea how far I'll go. And I'm like, who's you talking to right now? I think to the gremlins. I mean, by the way, at that point, I want to say, we do. We do know how far you will go. You got blown up out of, like, you've done.

Not yet. She had that. This is before that. This is what she's about to climb out and hook the baby. You're right, yes. So it was to the gremlin. It was maybe telepathically to the gremlins. Oh, my God.

I almost wish she had been like, she, I wanted her to be like a, spy in my mind that she was a spy and she snuck aboard this plane because she knew there were gremlins and she's on board to fight gremlins you know she's like hellboy or something you know and they have no idea and she's like that's that's her job is she's like a badass monster killer but when she was just as surprised by the gremlins as everybody else i was like oh no this movie is very different i don't know i don't know what's happening she doesn't know about the nobody knows about the gremlins but even her first reaction is like there's a gremlin out there i'm going to take a gun and i'm going to fucking shoot it right away her first thing was i'm not going to say

anything yeah i'm taking this one to the grave i'm not going to tell anybody i just saw a gremlin oh my holy shit this was some wild stuff yeah but you know what i don't know i enjoyed it you're in i was i was holy cow now listen i like a plane movie. Yeah. So Scratch, certainly scratched that itch. Yep. And then I enjoyed the motherhood piece of it.

It really, I was on the fence. I was on the fence until breastfeeding. And, you know, automatically breastfeeding in a movie just, I'm like, it sky rockets to do the top of the list. So I thought it was great. I loved that moment. I did too. I actually, like the two moments that I remember the most from the film, well, I get,

I should say three. One, when she's working that artillery gun, when she's like bradda-da-da, like Rambo's that, like, that was awesome. Like, and just, like, she's, like, she can really do it all. And I think that she does a great job of, like, you buy her. Like, I don't, I never at a certain point, and there are certain action movies where you're like, oh, I don't buy that that person could hit that. Like, where is she, and maybe it's because of the hit girl of it all.

But the way she beat the fuck out of that Gremlin, it seemed believable to me. Like, she, I felt like she wasn't a person who was into fist of cuffs all the time. Well, she was, she was super capable. The only part, which you mentioned earlier, the only part that I made her look silly was when she was trying to drop cargo on the flying rebel in below. Because I was like, well, that just wouldn't.

The minute you drop it out, it's going to immediately rocket behind you. You're moving in a plane. That's not how it works. But otherwise, yeah, I loved when she shoots, because she shoots two of the Japanese bomber guys, one from her turret and one from a different turret. Like, she is, and she flies,

She lands the plane. She is like, Rambo is a good example. Like, she's adept and a badass in all way, shape, and form, including giving her baby nourishment with her boobs. All I would have needed was a tight. I've already said I would need one scene, but now I'll say this. I won't even take a scene.

Just at the end of the movie, the credits go to black, and it says, reports of this were blacked out for a, like, just put a thing up there, like the government hid the thing. She went off and did this. But here's the thing. And again, I guess the reason why people ask is this movie. Wait, and her lover, the guy that she, the father of the baby, he lives too, right?

Yes. See, I never was like, it never, I was. They wanted all three of them to be together. They wanted, like, I wanted him to be with her while she was breastfeeding, then to be triumphant on that mountain. And then to hear this screech of a gremlin in the background. Give me, like, 200 gremlins, like, descending upon them. I want to know. I want that monster from the fucking Book of Boba Fett first episode.

Pop that out of the ground. Yeah. Let's get us, yeah. Why people ask it's real. I do think it is confusing. And I think it's, again, you talked about, like, these moments in this movie that, like, are tropes or made you feel a certain way. You watch this movie, a crazy-ass movie.

We've already talked about why it's so crazy. And then you cut to this end where it's like you're seeing all of our crew members for more screen time than they even really had in the actual film, a lot of them. Like, in these, like, nice, like, hey, this is them at work and play before the Gremlin's hit. And then they just casually mix in real footage. of actual soldiers. I think it's a weird choice. Oh, wait, I missed that.

I didn't see that. Oh, yeah. The, all the whole credit sequence is all these amazing women. Okay, that's interesting, because on Hulu, oh, I would have loved to have seen that. On Hulu, you couldn't watch the credit sequence. Oh, okay. It prompts to another movie so quickly. Yeah, I saw this sort of like outtakes, but I didn't see.

Oh, so they basically have this, like, montage of all the wasps, which are the women Air Force service pilots. Oh, that's cool. So it's really cool. But it is also confusing because, like, league of their own, I want to see the women playing baseball. I see. Oh, so that's why you're saying people might have thought it was real. Because I do think there's something.

It's like, this is not even a story about you. Like, this is not even like, oh my gosh, this is the first woman pilot who did something. It's like, this is just a straight up Rambo story. Like, but to put real people there, I'm like, it is a little. I was like, that's cool. But it's also like, wait. I would have also liked it if they did that if it was like a black and white photo of

a female pilot but then I was just going to say a black and white photo of like a plane with gremlins on it or just or a black and white photo of gremlins like Jarfaxshar you know and just like hey and they're like me too

you know it's like all these different just classic gremlin black and white shots gremlins and bikinis anyway obviously we have an opinion about this movie but there are people out there with a different opinion. Actually, scratch that. There are people out there with this same exact opinion. We're going to hear from them. That's right. It's not second opinions. It's third opinions.

Jason, June and Paul, I think they know it all But Amazon reviews disagree It's open up your mind But these unlightfuls apply Second opinions for you and me That's right, it's third opinions There are a lot of positive reviews of this film 42% are five-star reviews

But they seem to be bogged down in technicalities It's not really fun five-star reviews so we wanted to get into some of the more fun one-star reviews. This is written by just Amazon customer. What a complete and utter disappointment. The entire premise of the movie is a joke. There's no plot, no rhyme, no reason. It makes no sense.

And the whole thing's about a baby? One star. This one's written by Brian L. Nasty Vogel. And it goes like this. This is possibly. the worst movie ever made, and I watch a lot of movies. I feel obliged not to let the unsuspecting viewers purchase or rent this mess. I managed to get through this movie only by making a game out of how many consecutive seconds Chloe Grace Moritz's face was not on the screen. I only got to

2.8 seconds. That's the highest length by far. The movie has nothing other than a ridiculous dialogue featuring only voices talking to Chloe Grace Maritz. And then it goes, the plot is even worse than the ill-prepared props of the Speary Gun Turret. I want my money back. That is one star. And that was written just a couple of days ago. This one's written, and our final one is written by Nat. I think this movie disrespects the audience is intelligence.

It's a ridiculous excuse for storytelling. Did interns write this? And by interns, they must have been interns to an elementary student council. That's it. Children wrote and directed this. That's the only explanation. Now I don't feel so bad. You kids should pat each other on the head.

Job well done. Don't let anyone squash your imagination until you're adults and you actually want to make something that you're proud of. In that case, don't do this. Just quit. Run away from any association to this movie. It will be a step in the right direction, kids. One star. The kids that he invented.

The kids that he invented. Wow. What a wild rant. What a journey. Anyway, Jason, June, any final thoughts? Would you recommend this movie? I mean, June, you said yes, right? Yes.

I mean, in an absurd way, yeah. And like I said, at an hour and 20, it zips by great. I was like, okay, I'm having fun. I did, I had some structural problems with it. But, you know, I'm like, I'm into Gremlins plus World War II, plus dogfight plus, you know, protect the baby, a movie. It just, ah, it almost, I really,

I was viscerally upset, though, that I didn't think the movie was, you know, the movie is flawed, but they used Kate Bush in the closing credits, and that broke my heart because it was, that's just too great a song to use in too bad a movie. So that I had a real issue with. Especially after the, the techno synth,

Especially after, yes, the Synthie John Carpenter rip-off score to give us Kate Bush Hounds of Love at the end. I was like, how dare you? I hear that. I really love the score, but it's just that since it's just scratching and trimming, I loved it. But I enjoyed it, you know, I just enjoyed it. And the Gremlins were shocking, and we still have no answers, but even with them. Um, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I wonder if we're just like, are we in a place in time where the world is full of such chaos that even a movie like this, we're like, yes, thank you. Thank you, thank you, listen. It took me to a place that I didn't expect to go. And at an hour and 20 minutes, I felt, I thought it was a fine use of my time. Here's, here's what I will, I will agree that if you were in a theater,

at midnight with a bunch of people it would be a fun uh i can see this as a midnight movie type yes absolutely all right so now here's my dumb joke that i saved to the end and i've set it up now so it's going to be too complex but i'll say it anyway um you know one of the characters in the in the film is uh stu beckle and i said did beckle pass the beckdall test uh by not talking about chloe grace moritz with another person for one scene And he did not So that's my answer there Wait, did Beckle

Pass the Becktel test Good job, babe Wow I'm not sure that you understand What the Bechtel test did No, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah So that joke is just about the The near, the sound alike

Of their names Yeah, yeah, yeah That's a good one, I'd save that one at the end Because I knew we had to get out of a hide- It's really worth it. I looked at this note that I hand wrote down. I was like, what is this? I was like, I got to read that.

June, you have something really fun coming up, right, at the Jane Club? Yes. On January 22nd, we are hosting our third virtual day-long retreat, and it will be incredible. We have different speakers. We do writing sessions. There's meditation. it's just one of my favorite days of the year. All right, great.

And Jason, anything else that you want to talk about? No, not really. Star Trek Prodigies back out and doing great stuff. And I'll just remind everybody that every Thursday night over on Twitch, which is not a scary place at all. It's just like YouTube. It's totally free. You can just log on.

Rob Hewbel and I host a show there, and you can watch the recaps of that show every weekend on my YouTube channel. And a big thank you to our movie. picking producer, Averill Halley, who picked this film, found this film, watched this film, which came out only a year ago. She described it as, this movie is simultaneously the worst and possibly my favorite movie of 2020. And I think, honestly, she's kind of right.

There's enough stuff in here that really makes it fun, but it's so weird. And a big thank you to our producer, Cody Fisher, our audio engineer, Devin Bryant, are our MVP, Molly Reynolds, our person who kind of oversees it all, July, Diaz, and everybody else at Earwolf who makes this show all come together. And thank you to Nate Kylie for all of his amazing research, his third opinions, his first opinions.

And, of course, the ghost of Craig T. Nelson, who designs all of our crazy fun art and Kyle Waldron, who does all of our great Facebook art. You can check out tpublic.com for all of our shirts. And you bet there will be a great. M-Less shirt right next to a googie and our snowman shirt. There's always sales going on there. So just go to tpublic.com slash HD-T-GM.

You'll find it. It's easy. Just type in how to just get made in the search bar. You're smart. I love you all. And if you want to weigh in, you could do that on our mini episode. Just give me a call at 619. P-A-U-L-A-U-L-A-S-K.

That's 619. Paul Ask. You can talk about this movie, or you can call for my advice line where I'll give you some tips about how to how to be a new you in 2022. All right, that's all for now. We'll see you next week on the mini episode.