How Did This Get Made? - Last Looks: Bad Boys: Ride or Die

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

This week Paul answers all your questions about Bad Boys: Ride or Die, chats with author Brad Meltzer and announces next weeks movie! You can find Brad Meltzers book, The JFK Conspiracy: The Secret Plot to Kill Kennedy-and Why It Failed at https://bradmeltzer.com/ HDTGM Spring Tour 2025 tickets are now on sale for Austin, Denver, Seattle, Boise, San Fran, Portland, & LA at hdtgm.com.Order Paul’s book about his childhood: Joyful Recollections of TraumaCheck out new HDTGM movie merch over at teepublic.com/stores/hdtgmJoin the HDTGM conversation on Discord: discord.gg/hdtgmPaul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheerVisit Paul’s YouTube page: youtube.com/paulscheerFollow Paul’s movie recs on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheer/Friend Zone w/ Paul and Rob Huebel live on Twitch every Thursday 5pmPT / 8pmET: www.twitch.tv/friendzoneLike good movies too? Listen to Unspooled with Paul and Amy Nicholson: https://www.unspooledpodcast.com/Listen to The Deep Dive with Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael: www.thedeepdiveacademy.com/podcastWhere to find Paul, June, & Jason:@PaulScheer on Instagram & Twitter@Junediane on IG and @MsJuneDiane on TwitterJason is not on social media Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using the link: siriusxm.com/hdtgm.

What is your favorite How Did This Get Made movie of 2024? Can someone define a bad boy? And we get into the origins of Superman. All this and more on today's How Did This Get Made. Last looks, hit the theme. How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made?

How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made?

How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made?

How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? How did this get made? bad girls and bad people. I'm your host, Paul Scheer, and welcome to How Did This Get Made? Last Looks, where you, the listener, get to voice your issues on Bad Boys, Ride or Die, a movie that Discord user Ghostbag, Ghostbag, I like Ghostbag, Ghostbag thinks should have had the tagline, Bad Boys. If the Fast and Furious franchise

isn't gonna use Ride or Die, we'll try. I like it, a little bulky, but I like it. Again, the biggest issue with Bad Boys Ride or Die is that they should have used the Bad Boys 3 title, Bad Boys 4 Life again. All right, yes, they made a mistake. They used the four in the three, but just use it again. We don't care.

Bad Boys For Life, ride or die. All right, anyway, thank you Ghost Bag for that alt movie tagline. You don't get anything, but I wanna give you a sincere thanks from the bottom of my heart. Remember if you have an alt movie tagline title, submit it to us on our discord and we might just read it on the show. All right coming up on today's episode you'll be hearing a bunch of corrections and omissions

from bad boys ride or die. I mean you had some thoughts and we will break them all down plus we'll even get into some Dracula 2000, uh, issues that people had. Yeah, it was rereleased. Uh, and people got those message boards fired up again. So we're going to be tackling Dracula 2000 and bad boys in our corrections and omissions. Plus I just want to give a special shout out to Jerry Butler star of. Den of Thieves 2, Pantera.

For that amazing message that you gave us all on the pod last week, you heard it if you just listened to Dracula 2000. But if you wanna see Jerry in the flesh, go to my Instagram page, go to howtodiskepmaids Instagram page, and you can watch the video. He's the fucking man.

I love it. I love that he made that for us and you know what it worked people Den of Thieves came in number one at the box office and it broke Lions Gate's losing streak I mean it was the first number one movie that they have had since the Hunger Games prequel so you're welcome That's what you get. Quality Jerry, quality collab, you get number one movie.

Anyway, later in the show, I'm gonna sit down with the great Brad Meltzer. You know him as a comic book writer, you know him as a children's author, and you know him as an author of fiction, historical fiction, whatever it is, this guy has done it. We're going to talk about all of those things. Plus his brand new book, The JFK Conspiracy, which my dad started reading

when he was here and took it with him and then sent me an effusive note. As if I wrote the JFK conspiracy. I read it and it's great. So we'll talk about that. Brad is going to be an inspiration to you all. And finally, we will reveal next week's movie. But you know, that's what we do here. That's last looks.

That's par for the course. The other things, not par for the course. Anyway, before we get too far into things, I got to give a big shout out to Chris Chaney for that amazing theme song. That's right, Chris. Thank you so so much. Before we get too far into things, I gotta give a big shout out to Chris Chaney for that amazing theme song. That's right, Chris, thank you so, so much. I love it.

We love these songs. And if you have any last look episode themes, you can send them to howdidthisgetmadeatearwolf.com. Keep them short. You know, if you're listening, you know. Don't think, oh, I got a great one. Sheer's gonna love this. 90 second one't think, oh, I got a great one. Shears gonna love this 90 second one. No, no, I want them short 15 to 20 seconds is best.

And by the way, because of the LA fires, we did reschedule our Largo shows that were happening in January. We are moving them to March. Keep your eyes open for dates. But if you are a ticket holder, you should have gotten an email that is giving you first chance to rebu keep your eyes open for dates. But if you are a ticket holder, you should have gotten an email that is giving you first chance to rebuy your tickets

because we wanted to make sure that you would be the first ones to get that opportunity. Anyway, how did this get made is going on tour. We're gonna be in Austin, Texas, Denver, Colorado, Boise, Idaho for the Tree Fort Festival, Seattle, Washington, San Francisco, Portland, Oregon, and then a big, big show in Los Angeles at the United Theater.

So get your tickets now, go to HDTGM.com. We cannot wait to see you. This is gonna be a fun road trip. I can already feel it. The movies that we are talking about are great. So get those tickets and now let's get into some bad boys. All right, last week we talked at length about Will Smith's comeback, Martin Lawrence's domination.

But you know what? In that conversation, we might've missed a few things. We might have even made a couple of mistakes. Well, here is your chance to set a straight fact check us if you will it is now time for Corrections and omissions bad boys ride or die addition Thank you, John Cohn for that theme song. Or is it John Cohen? Thank you, John Cohen. John Cohn.

Either way, we thank you. Let's go to the Discord. Dove writes, although Bad Boys production used a prop animatronic alligator for the scenes in the abandoned amusement park Albino alligators do exist here is Claude an albino alligator I photographed him at the california academy of sciences in san fran a few years ago Cod was hatched in 1995 just a few months before the first Bad Boys movie was released. Because of his albinism, making him easy prey and his poor eyesight, Claude wouldn't survive in the wild, so he has spent most of his life in captivity in this very dimly lit exhibit. So just like everything else in this

movie, the existence of an albino alligator is totally grounded in fact. Well, you know what, Dove, thank you for bringing that to our attention. I don't even think we brought up the veracity of albino alligators, but I'm glad to know they exist. And I'm also glad that our producer, Matt, loves Claude. Matt knew about Claude, he loves him. This picture is great, you should check him out on the Discord.

Dove, thank you for sharing your work. I love it. Zilla21 writes, when Marcus sees their relationship through time, we get pairs of many creatures. This is a list of incarnations of Mike and Marcus. Ants, lemurs, birds, camels, gazelles, horses, and bears. I want to understand what you're saying. Are you saying that this is in there?

Oh, oh, you're saying that when like the flashes are happening? Whoa, okay. I needed, this is like getting a text from my mom. I needed to put some context around it. Now I get it and I'm blown away. So all the things that we see in those flashes are all the different things that they have been through their life.

And you're saying there were ants, lemurs, birds, camels, gazelles, horses, and bears. Holy shit. Let's see a movie about each one of them. Fun Facts 47 writes, throughout the entire movie, Marcus is obsessed with salty snacks and candy. The opening scene, he buys Skittles.

His ring password is Snickers89. So why didn't M&M's get a shout out when the initials for the main characters are M, N, M. Mike and Marcus. By the way, where were you during the punch-up session? That would have been a great ad-lib joke in the film, but maybe two on the nose. I love Snickers 89.

I know I missed it in my remembrance of it in the show, but M&Ms, Mike, Mike, we're the original M&Ms. Would have been great. By the way, as we've seen them through the different incarnations, why couldn't it be like Camel's Gazelle's peanut M&Ms would have been great. By the way, as we've seen them through the different incarnations, why couldn't it be like camels gazelles peeing at M&Ms? I mean, I would have loved to see, we should make Martin Lawrence and Will Smith voice the M&Ms, somebody start a petition.

I will, uh, promise to sign it. Then I'll forget about it. Then you'll remind me and then I'll eventually sign it when it's too late. Anyway, let's go to the phones. Brianne from Orange County. Okay, what do you got? Hi, Paul and Jason. I have been a long time listener for about 14 years. Your show actually first aired about a week after my daughter was born and she's 14. What do you know? Anyways, I just wanted to say in my 14 years of listening, this has never happened. I have never at any point in time stopped the podcast 11 minutes in and decided I have to watch the movie

that you're talking about. Because sometimes they'll listen, and I don't even watch the movie, and I just listen because it's funny. I'm sure other people do that too, but there are plenty of times when I do watch the movie and listen as well. So this is the one time where I was like,

June is giving such a glowing review of Bad Boys Ride or Die that I have to watch it. And I am so thankful that I did. It was amazing. It was amazing. I'm so thankful. I would love if you guys were to do a hop, skip, and a jump down to Orange County

for a show someday that is like on my wish list for life. Love you guys, thank you so much. Holy shit, that's what I love. I love that you had the willpower to stop the podcast to watch the movie. And I hope you enjoyed the podcast more because of it, which I think you did. Anyway, Jeff from LA, what do you got?

Hey Paul, first I wanted to point out that there's a spin-off to Bad Boys that you may not be aware of. Gabrielle Union's character from Bad Boys 2 had a two-season TV show called LA Finest with Jessica Alba. I think it was on one of those very small channels that no one ever heard of back in this peak peak TV era. But my real reason for calling was to get an idea from you of what is a bad boy? Joey Pants, you know, obviously calls him his bad boys as, you know, the rascals. But in every movie, Mike and Marcus came theme song to Cuffs, which is, you know, bad boys, bad boys, we're gonna do when we come for you.

So obviously to them, bad boys are bad. So I was just kind of wondering where you think that term lands for them. All right. See you guys. First of all, Jeff, let me just say, yeah, I know about LA's finest. Oh, I know it aired on, I believe spectrum. Yes. The spectrum original, if you will. Um, I love Gabrielle union. I was into this show. I found this show. There are some fun bad boys connections, but what happens is you can't really

let the bad boys universe it's it's Will Smith. It's Martin Lawrence, right? Like we need the Simpson-Bruckheimer aesthetic, or not even the Simpson-Bruckheimer, we just need like that Jerry Brook, big Michael Bay action. And I know that that Elias Finis, AKA Bad Girls, did have good action and the acting was fun and we had like connections with characters like John

Sally and stuff, but I will say this. I don't consider it. It's spiritual sequel. Sure. Whatever. Um, let's get into your breakdown of bad boys. I think I need to throw this out to the discord. Yes.

In bad boys, they sing the song bad boys. And I think they sing that song because in their mind, the song bad boys, bad boys, bad boys, what you're gonna do is sung by cops. They are singing the song that, like, I imagine a bunch of cops in the studio recording that song. And that is the theme of cops. It is also the theme of the TV show, cops.

All right, so that's, we know that. So that, in that way, they are singing their anthem, the cop anthem. He calls them his bad boys. That doesn't make that much sense, right? But, hear me out. Hear me out here. Joey Pants is behind a desk, right?

Behind a desk, he doesn't know shit. He's not out the cops anthem. He's looking at it more like the Webster dictionary definition of it. You know, where it's like a person who doesn't conform to the approved standards of behavior in a specific, especially in a particular sphere of activity, AKA being a police officer. These guys don't conform to the standards of behavior. And so, you know, I think that's the way it is. standards of behavior, especially in a particular sphere of activity, AKA being a police officer. These guys don't conform to that.

So he's talking about bad boys, like the way that the dictionary defines it. They're talking about bad boys, the way that the cops in the street talk about it because that's the song that they created. Don't look it up. I'm pretty sure I'm right. All right, Jeff, back to the Discord.

Dino Mike 4808 writes, correction, it is not a Steadicam with handguns. As Paul mentioned, it's a modified snorri cam rig called Sputnik. And I appreciate that Dino Mike has actually I saw the gentleman after bad boys. So I hope more people use the snorri cam. I'd like to use the snorri cam. Maybe I can use the snorri cam.

Another question. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

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I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure when I saw the gentleman after Bad Boys. So I hope more people use the snorri cam.

I'd like to use the snorri cam. Maybe I can use the snorri cam. The next thing I direct, can I just request it? That'd be great. Doing a commercial for salad dressing. I'm like, can you give me a snorri cam? All right, let's go back to the phones for one more. Hey, Paul, it's Davon in Brooklyn.

So I'm listening to your Dracula 2000 rerelease and Jason mentions that he wants to see an Ocean's 11 type movie where they're stealing track You look I know this is a old podcast but funny enough isn't that the movie Abigail? Also, I want to say that I hope you guys are good and safe from the fires. I hope everybody is good. You, June, the kids, the dogs, Jason, his tea bags, I guess. All of you guys, I hope you're safe. And also, last thing, Paul, your book was amazing.

I enjoyed it so much. Thank you so much. I have never related, cried, laughed at things that I had through my childhood. So thank you so much for that book and have a happy new year. Davon, thank you. That is, I really appreciate that.

That's the nicest thing. My hearing people's reactions to the book has been overwhelming and as the year kind of came to a close, just kind of looking back on all my experiences and it's been really an amazing time and more and more people have been finding it, which is amazing about books. Like books don't die, they kind of grow. And I just loved it. And I was really lucky to get put on some of these best of lists.

And I've just been lucky the whole time, but honestly the best part of it has been like messages like that. So I appreciate that. But now let's get into the real meat of it all. You're right. We did that Dracula 2000 podcast in 2022 originally. Abigail came out in 2024.

So yeah, maybe let's connect the timelines. Did someone steal this idea from listening to an episode of Dracula 2000? I think so. I think they did. No, I know of course they didn't do that. All right, Davon, thank you. It was so great to hear everything that you were thinking.

And finally, we are safe. We are fine, we are lucky. Jason June, our kids, his tea bags, our dog. We had to evacuate because we had lost some power. We are back at home. It's been a really scary time, an emotionally overwhelming time. And our hearts are with our friends and our loved ones

as if that's different, or with all of our loved ones who have lost so much. And, um, you know, I'm so impressed by LA and I'm impressed by. Everybody around me who is just rolling up their sleeves and doing the work. LA is a really interesting place that I think gets mistreated a lot, you know, as an empty, vacant, phony place. And the truth is, is over the course of COVID and these strikes, what has come to the forefront support and be a part of that support. And this is just something that is devastating beyond belief, 95,000 people are displaced right now.

It's crazy, crazy number. And like I said, we were lucky and we're here and now we get to just do the work. So I appreciate all that. And I thank you so much. Um, all right. So many great corrections and omissions this week, but there can only be one. One that is head and shoulders above the rest.

Now, personally, I would pick Dave on because Dave on like my book, but the truth is I have to be a little bit more open. And I think, you know, look, we've heard about Albino Crocs. We've heard about M&Ms. We've heard about many, many of things, but I mean, this is a tough one because it's not that much this week to even break it all down. You know what?

I am gonna go with Jeff from LA because you know what? LA needs some love and Jeff, you got me to break down bad boys. So I feel like Jeff, you are this week's winner. You get nothing, but you do get this amazing song from our friend, Katie Morris. Hit it.

["Inside of You"] Do you wanna chime in with your own thoughts about the latest episode of How Did This Get Made? Well, hit us up on the Discord at discord.gg slash HDTGM or call us at 619-P-A-U-L-A-S-K. Okay, coming up after the break, we will announce next week's movie and then I will be joined by Brad Meltzer. I mean, what has this guy not done? He's writing thrillers. He's writing nonfiction.

He's writing kids books. He's writing TV. Guys got so much, so much on the table. We're gonna talk about his brand new book, the JFK Conspiracy. People get ready, cause you're not gonna wanna miss out. You're gonna be inspired.

And we got so much more extra goodness in there. All right, stay tuned. How did this go? How goodness in there. All right, stay tuned. All right, welcome back. I'm sure you noticed every week we re-release old, how did this get made episodes back into our feed. These are matinee episodes, right? They come out every Tuesday now, not Monday. And this Tuesday's matinee is the Apple with guest Andy Richter. And next week's will be the shadow with Pete Davidson. So keep on checking out all of our replays

of classic episodes until we figure out some sort of paywall system where we can have the entire library available. But right now we can't do it like that. We'll get there, we're gonna do it. Now, Jason couldn't be here this week, but I got a guest that's gonna knock your fricking socks off. Brad Meltzer.

He is the Emmy nominated, number one New York Times bestselling author of the Lightning Rod, the Escape Artist, and 11 other bestselling thrillers. He writes non-fiction books that are equally compelling. He started off with this series called the Nazi Conspiracy and he has a brand new book called the JFK Conspiracy, which is fantastic.

It's about a secret plot to kill JFK that you've never heard of. And his ordinary people change the world books. It's a kids series that I love, which he does with, and I'm gonna mispronounce this guy's name, Chris Elopoulos is a staple in our household and inspired the PBS Kids TV show,

Xavier Riddle and the Secret Museum. If you've not read his Justice League of America books, they're great. We're gonna talk about Superman. He won the prestigious Eisner Award. I mean, this guy, he's doing everything. He's even hosting his own shows on the History Channel. He was responsible for finding a missing 9-11 flag

that the firefighters raised at ground zero. He also delivered a commencement address to the University of Michigan in front of 70,000 people, including his graduating son. I do think that if you've not heard that commencement address, it'll give you chills. It has been shared millions of times on social media. Do yourself a favor and watch it.

It's great. All right. I think that's a good for an intro. I mean, I don't even know how to knock them down because it's not a simple guy to set up. So welcome, Brad. I am so excited to have you on the show. And first of all, I just have to say,

I think you're the only person I've ever talked to that really has a legacy throughout my entire family, which is I came at you through like comics. My kids have come at you through the books that you have written, these like, I am the I am books about, you know, different leaders and my dad is a gigantic fan of yours. And so you really, you cover all the bases

and I think that's, you know, I guess the question is, how do you do it? I mean, how do you keep these varied? I mean, those are very big age groups that we're talking about here. You're getting everybody. Yeah, you know, the truth is, and I have to say, I have to start with, you're the first

person I've ever been interviewed by who my friend Noah said should play me in my autobiography. I mean, I'm in, I'm ready for it. So the truth is, is I started writing when I was 27 years old, and we're a similar age. And so we were reading comics and doing those things and those people came along. And then I started having kids and the people that were reading me had kids. And so when I started writing kids books, they came along. And obviously the History Channel just brings in everybody's dad. So that's just the weird one. But I think it's truthfully, and you've been the lucky recipient of this, it's just the people who have been readers of mine and people who watch you, they're just so loyal and amazing. Comic book people are the best people

and they've just always been with me. They're like, I remember going to my first book events and they knew I liked comics when nobody liked comics. And they would just be like, I'm buying your stuff, man. I'm like, I love you for that. But now let me ask you this, because you are responsible for, I mean, what I would argue is not even controversial, but like a groundbreaking, like when you wrote Identity Crisis, that was like an earth shaking comic book moment in many ways, right?

I mean, yes, it's getting all this praise as one of the best books, but like when you also poke that bear of loyal fans and you mess up stuff before you shake it up. Oh yeah, no, no, no. Listen, I have the only death threats I've ever gotten in my life also came from comic book fans. So yeah, make no mistake, I got both.

But even Identity Crisis was never meant, the beautiful part for me is it was never meant to be anything big. It was right after 9-11 and Dan DiDio was like, remember those days when after 9-11, we used to thank, if we saw a cop on the street or someone who was a fire fighter, you'd be like, thank you for your service.

And you just be so thankful that these people, you knew were putting their lives on the line every day. And then the deal was like, can you write like a short, small story that will make us feel like when our heroes put their uniforms on, that they're risking their lives. We kind of lost that. We want to get that back again.

So it wasn't a big crossover, wasn't anything. I just said, I'm going to write this short story. And then when Dan got the scripts, he was like, oh, I can turn this into a big crossover. But that was never the plan. For me, when he went out there, I was like, oh, I can turn this into a big crossover. But that was never the plan. For me, when he went out there, I was like, you do what you want with it. I just got to tell my story.

I think if we went in as a big story, they would have never let me do what we were doing. Yeah, you know what, that's really interesting because that moment, that 9-11 moment, I think brought some, I mean, what you're talking about is like a reality to it. Like it grounded it in like these people are, well, they're fictional characters,

but we had some realism or we dealt with things in a different way. Like I remember there was even like a Spider-Man like realizing he couldn't prevent 9-11. Like, and that was like, you know, like these ideas that I love the way that the comic book world kind of reacted to crisis and in a way. Oh, and listen that the comic book world kind of reacted to crisis in a way.

Oh, and listen, the comic book world, but that's all we've ever done in the comic book world, right? I mean, my senior paper in college was comic books as propaganda in World War II. Wow. Right? They were, like Superman, we didn't get Superman because America is the greatest country on Earth, right? We got Superman because two Jewish kids were looking around at Hitler and all this fascism and saying, oh my gosh, we need someone to come save us. And so they created something to come save us. And why did it take off? Because America was scared and needed someone who was dressed in a flag and was bulletproof and was going to be made. And that's why it sold a million copies. Right. To me, the most important part of Superman is never Superman.

The most important part of Superman is Clark Kent because we're all Clark Kent and we all know what it's like to be born and ordinary. And so the culture always reflects the humanity that we're dealing with. So you see that, you know, whether it's the sixties and you're looking at hard traveling heroes or nine 11, you got identity crisis and you got all these other, you know, civil war came out of that too. Was this moment where we were trying to figure out, who are we fighting here? Are we fighting ourselves?

Are we fighting the villains? We're always, it's always a mirror. Well, you know what I think is so interesting too, we have these amazing writers and I feel like in, I don't even know when you noticed the change. I was just talking about this with a friend. I used to go to Comic-Con in San Diego. I went to a bunch of cons in New York when I was a kid.

And it was very low key for all intents and purposes. And then I think the moment I always talk about in San Diego, and this is a while, this is not that while, like it's closer than it is further away, was when Twilight premiered the Thursday night at Comic-Con. I was like, oh, this is not Comic-Con anymore. Like this is a different thing, right? It's like, it's for everybody.

That's not watching the Star Trek bloopers in the back of the Holiday Inn. Yes. I mean, that's all we did. Our original Comic-Con, so to speak, where you go into a Holiday Inn in Brooklyn or in Florida, and they had one show we watched, the Star Trek bloopers, and they just ran nonstop. And I would watch them like three times because I'm like, what else am

I going to do? Oh, it was the coolest, weirdest people you'd ever meet. Of course. And you'd find, I'd be like, I'm looking for the George Perez, JLA postcards. Do you have them? And if they said no, I'd be like, I will wait for the next Comic Convention. Right. Because I can't possibly find anyone else to, you know, all the nerds that I know are in one place here. And there's like four dealers there and that seemed like a lot. But, but yeah, once Hollywood came in, we lost our spot, right? Like that's when artist Ali got pushed away and the people who love comics, you were like, why are you really here? And then you suddenly had like actors who were like, do you really like comics? You say you like comics and producers who were like, I love comics.

I'm like, you don't know shit about comics. I know you know nothing like comics and producers who are like, I love comics. I'm like, you don't know shit about comics. I know you know nothing about comics. What's it's so weird when you can tell when people don't like not fake the funk, but it is it's a weird thing. It's like, oh, I've always wanted to play this character. I'm like, really? No, no, no. Fake the funk is the perfect term for I mean, that it is. I love the thing. I used to be mad at it. And now I actually love because it's kind of, you know, the best question I've ever been asked in my career ever at any Q&A was at San Diego Comic Con. It was me. I was on a panel with like Chip Kidd.

I'm trying to remember who else was on. It was a great panel. It was just about like, like nerd culture was the first kind of nerd culture panel. And someone stood up and said in a genre where we're so focused on being outsiders and we always loved it for being the outsiders, how does it feel when everyone now loves what you love so much? Does it ruin a little bit about what you love? Then I was like, oh man, this person's seeing my soul right now. Right? But it was, that was the question. And now I get, now I used to be mad at it, but now when I see some beautiful actor completely faking it, I'm like,

you are sucking up to us nerds. Like that's an unbelievable power shift. Yeah, you've seen how to get like your way in with the cool kids, because you also know that if you have to, you have to make it right for them. Right, so you get these like really big actors who have to then like kind of bow down and be like, do you like it?

You know, and if they do. Right. I love that. I love that. Yeah. They're like, I don't know. Do you like this Sonic or should we change this? Like when that happened, that was, that was the ultimate power shift in like, they're now asking us and reacting. And it's by the way, the worst thing that ever happened.

Because once you do that, Well, that's the problem, right? Right. You lose all control. And now you're just ass kissing instead of creating. The tricky thing is, and I'll tangent for myself for one second and say, I was in charge of reimagining Galaxy Quest at a certain point and I was working on that. My point of view was exactly what you and I just talked about.

I was going to take it from the point of view that when Galaxy Quest came out, it was about these smaller hotel conventions. It wasn't cool, it wasn't hip, it wasn't good. And I was gonna bring it into the now and do the Holly, it was basically like a JJ Abrams is reinventing Galaxy Quest with these actors who don't care and their fish out of waterness is that they're just A-list actors who are living the great life.

And then they have to put into like a real world scenario. Not only would I watch the crap out of it, it's genius, it's perfect. So of course they're not, now they're not making it, right? Because it's too good. Well, no, of course, well, their issues were like, we just want it to be like the first one. It's like, well, but you can't just put those people back into outer space. Right, you can't have the same thing.

What the first one did so well is it wasn't just, it was a commentary on what that Trek culture had become. Yes. And it was like, you can't have the same thing. What the first one did so well is it wasn't just, it was a commentary on what that Trek culture had become and how it turned. And of course you took it to say, well now it's 20 years later, 30 years later, let's see it shift again. And you have great commentary, which would be great.

How did this get me? How did this get me? I wanna talk about Ghost Machine for a second because what's happening in this world is some of the biggest franchises have been created by brilliant minds like yourself. And you know, I talked to Ed Brubaker about this all the time, you know, you don't get any credit for it. You don't get any like that residuals, the money, like you get like you are working for a company, you create this thing, they get to go and make whatever But you are the creator who gets

Nothing and it's a weird. It's a weird thing and back in the day It was I don't think people cared about it that much because it was their comics, but now they are franchises multi-billion dollar toys and their designs and character archetypes that you've created That you have no hand in and I think what I love about this, tell us a little bit about Ghost Machine a little bit. But yeah, so I mean, listen, the comic industry ever since Superman got sold for $135, the comic industry has never changed, right? Like that's how it operates. That's not a bug. That's the feature. And Ghost Machine was, and again, full credit to Jeff Johns, who basically was like, wait a minute, he'd done all the DC work. He's done Marvel work. He's produced Johns, who basically was like, wait a minute, he'd done all the DC work,

he's done Marvel work, he's produced all these DC movies, was like, why is all the money going there? And we can basically take the creators that grab control of our own creations. And I think what also happened, listen, this is not a new idea, right? Image Comics did this years ago, and then you see tons of great people

splitting off from the comic industry and saying we're going to do it. I think that's what Ghost Machine does, but what Ghost Machine really does best is everyone actually owns it together. That's amazing. So in other words, instead of just saying, you know, when Jim Lee had Wildcats and you had, you know, Eric Larson had Savage Dragon and McFarlane had Spawn, they were together but they were all in charge. You only got money from your own property. We actually own everything together as a company. So everyone rises. We all have an incentive not to just root for our own self but to root for everyone. And there's books like

Red Coat and there's books like Rook that are out there. I'm doing one called First Ghost which is, I won't ruin it just yet, but basically is about ghosts. Needless to say with the word ghost, I really just spoiled the whole thing there. It's called First Ghost and it's about ghosts. The public is gonna be like, why'd you say that? I'm like, oh, okay.

Anyway, it's basically about ghosts in the White House, which I'm obsessed with and I've always been obsessed with. And Jeff and I wrote it in the pandemic and he was like, why don't we do this here? Oh, I love this. And so the greatest thing in the world, I will tell you, because you loved it. Like you like me, when we were younger,

when Stan Lee used to talk about the bullpen, the Marvel bullpen, we used to imagine that like they were sitting together, creating comics together, and they weren't, that was all a lie to make us feel like happy. Right. But the greatest thing that Ghost Machine has is we have a text thread that has all the creators on it. And it is the bullpen. It is the virtual bullpen. And it is one of my favorite things. I feel like, I sometimes feel like nobody's working because we're all just like putting our best material into the thread.

But it is one of my favorite things is that this group is just so pure and so happy and excited about each other's work. And you'll see someone like Brian Hitch post something and Jason Fabox like, oh, I love that our Francis Manipoul is like, check this out, I'm trying this. And you're just watching these guys create in real time

and it is the most fun, amazing thing to witness. I love that. And that is very similar to a writer's room, right? Like you're just watching these guys create in real time and it is the most fun, amazing thing to witness. I love that and that is very similar to a writer's room, right? Like you're in this room and that's why I always, I hate when shows are nominated for writing awards or best writing because, you know, 90%, take the Tyler Sheridan out, take the Matthew Weiner stuff out.

It is all the, it's built in the room, you know, you have an, and everybody adds to it. So even it's even weird. And some people know this, some people don't, but you know, there might be a name on a script, but that name is just because you, the contractually have to have your name on a script. Like every, like you may be shepherding it,

but there's a ton of different ideas in there. And it really does. I feel like there should be, every writing award should be for the writer's room of that season because they all are there. The writer's room is the greatest, I mean, I'm a novelist, I started as a novelist, which is I sit alone in a room by myself.

And then when we worked on Jack and Bobby, it was like me and Greg Berlanti and Michael Green and Mark Guggenheim, like this murderer's row of like nerds and geeks that, you know, and Vanessa Taylor and Mark Guggenheim. Like this murderers row of like nerds and geeks that you know, and Vanessa Taylor and Dobby Waller who worked on Mad Men. I mean, these cricks. Yeah.

But I remember things would come out of everyone's mouth that I'm sitting there going like, why am I sitting by myself creating when you can have like really sharp minds at it? And there wasn't a single script that went out that I felt like everyone didn't have at least a couple of good lines in there and built together. Well, it's also like the idea of just being able to bounce things off of people and just see the reaction in the room. And you're right. Like,

I just finished writing my first book and it was incredibly solitary experience. And I loved it. I loved it for many reasons, but it also is this thing where I love creating. I've written comic books, for the most part, with a partner because I like to be able to go back and forth. We see other things and it makes me better. I come from improv and that's collaborative. But I do want to know how, you know, because I think some people think, oh well you have this. how many books have you written? I've written 50. But I've written like 35 of them are kids books. So it's a little easier. They're only 40 pages.

All right, so you've written a ton of books. You've written a lot of books by yourself. This book that just came out right now, you've written with a co-writer, Scott Mensch, right? I believe his name is. Josh Mensch, the best last name for any Jew to be writing with is Mensch. So you wrote it with Josh and now but

Like I seem I guess there's a thought and I think we I see this a lot in comedy like stand-ups Don't like to necessarily involve themselves with other people like I do my own thing That's how I do it now Is it easy for you to make that it seems like it's very easy for you to make that thing to be able to write very? It was all solitary and then to kind of move I think like I think just like as an improv and I let, you know, my friends, the scores, obviously we talk about, you know, improv and things like that. But for me, it's all about the part you have, right? You can be as good as you want, but you know, I learned it in comics.

My first improv was in comics. That's when I was first like, oh my gosh, there's a writer here and I got to learn. I mean, I'm a writer. There's an artist here. I got to learn how to shut up because the art's going tell the story. That the best lesson I ever learned about that. And that was the best lesson I ever got, right? It was like, just shut up, Meltzer, stop talking, and let the artist do their awesome thing

and stop putting all your dialogue that you think is so genius over everything. Well, it's so great, because, and I watched some writers over dialogue, comics, and what you realize is like, some of it is very much old school Charles Dickens, And I watched some writers over dialogue, comics, and what you realize is like, some of it is very much old school Charles Dickens work. Right, like the thought balloon, right?

The big thing of course. And it's like, but it's like, you are cooperating and you wanna see what they do. And a lot of the times what I love to do is get that edit pass, see the art and go, I don't need any of this. I just go back and cut, cut, cut, because the image is-

A hundred percent. Every time I get it, I'm like, take away this balloon, take away this balloon, take away this balloon. Yes. But the same thing with Josh. When Josh and I write a book, so we started, this one's about JFK. It's about, it's called the JFK conspiracy, right?

So we start- This is the third in the series or the fourth in the series? It's the fourth in the series, right? Okay. So we started with, these are actually all real stories. We started with a real life secret plot to kill George Washington in the first conspiracy. We did the Nazi conspiracy about a secret plot

to kill FDR Stalin in Churchill. We did a Lincoln one, this is JFK. But when we start, the whole key to the book, and this is a plot you don't know about JFK. It's great, by the way. This is, this blew my mind, and by the way, my dad was here visiting visiting saw it on my counter read it and was

It took it back with him to New York sent it back to me and was like been written wrote a giant note on the Front of it how much he loved this book. Well, the thing is it's such a crazy story, right? We all know the stories how JFK got killed of course in 1963. This is a story right after he gets elected There's a guy who hates him because he's Catholic and he doesn't want a Catholic being president. He basically is like, I'm going to kill this guy, JFK. And he follows him down to Palm Beach, Florida. He starts following his patterns. He sees every Sunday at 10 a.m. he goes to church.

He comes out of his house at 950. He gets in the car with the Secret Service. They drive to the church service. So this guy, Richard Pavlik, puts 10 sticks of dynamite in his trunk, basically is like 20 yards away from JFK. Sure enough, at 9.50 in the morning, JFK comes out of his building and Richard Pavlik just has to hit the gas and hit the little trigger in his car and truly boom will go the dynamite. And I won't ruin what happens or what saves his life on that particular day,

but I just ruined chapter one of the JFK conspiracy for you. Right? But the whole thing, but the whole point of it is, is when I'm writing with Josh, we have that story, but we're like, what are we writing about? And Josh and I are both like, wait a minute, this guy's life is so beautiful to so many. He looks so beautiful. He's got the perfect hair, he's got the perfect wife, he's got the perfect life, and his life is anything but. He's cheating on his wife, he's sleeping around, he's doing all this. I'm like, this is the awesome story.

And the only reason Josh and I can write together is because we see that subtext story exactly the same. And that's the same thing like your Galaxy Quest thing, right, like you've gotta see the subtext big thing to be able to write with someone on it. And there's something like, I mean, I feel like your Galaxy Quest thing, right? Like you've got to see the subtext big thing to be able to write with someone on it. And there's something like, I mean, I feel like in this book too, what you talk about with Jackie Kennedy is very different than what we know of Jackie Kennedy.

And again, I'm not, like, I think that you've given enough of a tease, because it really is interesting. It's such a great, it's a story that he didn't know. And I think like there's a reason for it, which was like the, there was a plane crash the day after this this or the everyone's like, why don't I know this story? Yeah day that the story breaks it's gonna be on the cover of every newspaper in the country and there's a plane crash over New York City and Two planes collide and one kid is the only survivor of this double plane crash and everyone in the world wants to know

What happened to the kid? Did he survive? Did he die? Did he live and that kid? is the only survivor of this double plane crash. And everyone in the world wants to know what happened to the kid. Did he survive? Did he die? Did he live? And that kid becomes the front page of every newspaper. And this story about JFK becomes a footnote until a nerd like me comes along and says,

wait a minute, what the hell happened? And that's a really cool story nobody knows. I love that. Now I have to ask you because you, in looking at the book and getting ready to talk to you, I mean, the only thing I kept on thinking about was what's going on right now in news, right? With this Luigi, you know,

where we're talking about this assassin and you're talking about like, what are, like, you know, this idea of like monitoring somebody, seeing which way they're going, getting in front of it, planning this whole thing. You know, this idea, I thought it was, I didn't know if you have any thoughts on like what you're seeing with this. Cause this is unlike- Oh, listen, of course. I mean, we wrote the book purposely for this time, for the inauguration, because it's, you know, Kennedy's election is 1960. He's going against

Richard Nixon. It's the closest election in modern history at the time. Whatever side you're on, you hate the other side and think they're fools and morons, right? Does that sound familiar to you? It's exactly the same story. And you can't be surprised. The reason why this happens, why this guy goes after Kennedy, is because the other side just gins up

so much hate and venom. And when you gin up that hate and venom, don't be surprised when you activate some lunatic out there. And it's the same thing with Luigi. Now the thing about these, the secret servers, I do a lot of work with them and they explained to me this, and Paul, this is the craziest thing they ever said to me. They said, assassins are of two types. There's hunters and there's howlers. Yes. Okay. And a howler makes a lot of noise and says, I'm going to go kill that guy and screw him and I'm coming for you, man.

And they don't do anything. They're all talk. Right. That's what a howler is. They're all talk and lots of noise. But a hunter makes no noise. They don't tell you they're coming and that's who pulls the trigger.

And if you look at the four presidential assassins in history and even the recent ones, they're all hunters. And if you look at Luigi, he's the same thing. Didn't give a word, didn't say I'm coming. These guys are the same. And you can't be surprised when you see it happening again and again and again. People get activated, they get pissed, and get out of their way.

I recommend everybody to check this out. This is of course the JFK conspiracy, the secret plot to kill Kennedy and why it failed. So you don't have to be a big fan of their way. I recommend everybody to check this out. This is of course, the JFK conspiracy, the secret plot to kill Kennedy and why it failed. So you do, that is a spoiler in the title. Again, once again, first ghost and this, you've been spoiling it.

It is on sale. Depending on when you're hearing this, January 14th, it is out. It's available in hardcover, ebook, audiobook, any way that you get your books. And you could tell Brad's one of the greats. And I'm such a fan, I'm so happy he got to talk with you. I'm excited for people to read this book.

And yeah, well, thank you so much for being here, Brad. Good to see you, brother. A big thank you for Brad for coming on and chatting with me. And before we announce our next movie, let me just say that we have polled our How Did This Get Made audience. And we've asked them what their top three episodes were from this year and the discord spoke. Are you ready for the top

three of 2024? This is like the howdy but way simpler. Okay they are coming in at number three three drum roll trap with Blakely Thornton. Great episode. Number two, troll two with Adam Scott. Great episode. And the number one, the number one film of this past year is the Beekeeper. That's right. By the way, I cannot argue with this list. It's a great list.

But if you're like, hey man, none of those are my favorites, then join our Discord community and let us know what your favorite episode of 2024 was, all right? I'll do it again and we'll see if it all changes. Anyway, the link to our Discord is in our show notes, but just go to discord.gg slash HDTGM and you can just jump right on in. Oh, by the way, if you are in front of a computer right now, Rob Hubel and I are starting a brand new show. It is called Enter the Dark Web, or actually just Dark Web, and you can

follow us on YouTube. We are exploring the craziest things that we can find online. Whether it's my mom accidentally tweeting with Elon Musk analyzing how much Richard Dawson kissed contestants on Family Feud or putting the tips of so-called experts into practice. We will be tackling it all. Enter the dark web on YouTube. Follow, get on board with us. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. All right, now onto next week. We're gonna go from the Wobble.

I love the Wobble. Philly, you are the best. All right, we are going from the Wobble to the Megalopolis. That's right. Next week, we are watching Francis Ford Coppola's Megalopolis starring Adam Driver. Now here's a short breakdown of the plot.

Megalopolis is a Roman epic set in an imagined modern America. Caesar Catalina is a genius artist who seeks to leap into a utopian idealistic future, but he's at odds with the opposition. And that's Mayor Franklin Cicero. That's Jean Carlo Esposito. Um, okay. Rotten tomatoes gives us some 45%. Johnny Olensky from the New York post says this movie is a zero star. It's a wacko disaster.

Now I get that. I get all the critiques. But I'm going to tell you something in all the films I watched in 2024, would I say that Megaloppa is the best? No, but I would say it might be the most interesting. Yes, this movie is all over the spot, but I kind of felt myself really loving it too. So I, I, I ask of you, maybe watch it. Like it's gonna more weird movies should be happening like this, I think ultimately.

Anyway, I'd offer you to give it a shot. Take a listen to the trailer. One filmmaker has always been ahead of his time. Turn stop! Go. Now, from visionary writer and director Francis Ford Coppola, comes an event nothing can prepare you for. Imagine today's society as a branch of civilization, about to reach a dead end

is this way we're living the only one that's available to us you can rent Megalopolis or you can wait a couple days it's gonna be be coming to Peacock. Like, you know, look, love it, hate it. Let it exist within you. Anyway, if you can't find it on Peacock, if you can't find it on, you know, Apple, then go check out your local public library, Hoopla, Canopy, Libby. Those are digital media services offered

by your local library that allow you to consume movies, TV, music, audio books, eBooks and comics for free. So get on that people. Okay. Um, now you got your homework. Megalopolis it is. And, uh, and with that I say, uh, do, uh, that is all for last looks. Remember if you were listening to us on Apple podcasts or Spotify,

please rate and review us. Please also make sure you are following us and have automatic downloads turned on. It helps the show and we appreciate it. You can visit us on social media at HDTGM and a big thank you to our producers Cody Fisher, Matt Apodaca, Molly Reynolds and our movie picking producer April Halley, our associate producer Jess Cisneros and our engineer Casey Holford. We'll see you next week for Megalopolis.