How Did This Get Made? - Matinee Monday: Body of Evidence LIVE!

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Paul, June, and Jason are LIVE in Washington D.C. to discuss the 1993 Madonna and Willem Dafoe erotic thriller Body of Evidence. They talk about the sassiest judge of all time, the houseboat, the parking garage sex scene, and much more. (Originally released 11/07/2019) For more Matinee Monday content, visit Paul's YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/c/PaulScheer Go to www.hdtgm.com for tour dates, merch, and more.Follow Paul on Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/paulscheer/HDTGM Discord: discord.gg/hdtgmPaul’s Discord: https://discord.gg/paulscheerCheck out Paul and Rob Huebel live on Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/friendzone) every Thursday 8-10pm ESTSubscribe to The Deep Dive with Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael here: listen.earwolf.com/deepdiveSubscribe to Unspooled with Paul Scheer and Amy Nicholson here: listen.earwolf.com/unspooledCheck out The Jane Club over at www.janeclub.comCheck out new HDTGM merch over at https://www.teepublic.com/stores/hdtgmWhere to find Jason, June & Paul:@PaulScheer on Instagram & Twitter@Junediane on IG and @MsJuneDiane on TwitterJason is not on Twitter

In the immortal words of June Diane Raefio Is this like a full porno We saw a body of evidence, so you know what that means Hello people of earth and hello people of washington dc We are so excited to be back in dc With a movie about politics body politics That's right. This might be the sexiest movie we've ever done Next to that weird one with Bruce Willis and the girl who looked 12

If you've not watched body of evidence the plot is simple a woman fucks a man to death But did she do it on purpose? That is what we're trying to find out throughout the entire movie. It's a riveting courtroom thriller and Like I mentioned in the opening porno To digest this dissect this we are going to bring out two of the best in the biz please welcome my co-host mr. Jason Manzukas What's up jerks Wow Wow

Wow we The chase this movie you can't show me such a horny movie in the middle of a tour This one was a real problem. I watched this movie on Amtrak today Which I would argue puts you in I am now percent of people who are riding Amtrak I am now on a list I'm kidding. I was already on the list Well, we are gonna bring this down Jason. Did you ever see this movie before I did I did see this movie before I've seen this movie I know what this movie is all about. All right. This was like one of them

Well, let's let's let's bring you know because this is one of like the sexy movies of my childhood Well, I want to talk about it. All right. Well, we will ladies and gentlemen to help Break it down even further You've already heard what she thought of the film a little bit, but now she'll tell you her more thoughts Please welcome June Diane Rayfield. How are you June? I'm well. How are you Paul? Good? Nice to hear from you Uh, June. Yes, body of evidence. Have you seen it? I have seen it. So for a time in my childhood and early like middle school years

My mom would request a thriller from blockbuster Whenever the family was going to blockbuster. She would call out get me a thriller and And so I saw I'm almost positive. I saw this movie with my parents This was this was the kind of movie though Your mom do you know that in that moment your mom was asking for a sexy movie? Because the thrillers of the 80s basic instinct body of evidence Sliver all the other body heat all of those movies are sexy super sexy Yeah, I've seen two in the theater with my parents

One was the color of night that Bruce wills one that we did in the podcast another one was with Richard gear And there was a lighthouse and there's a lot of nudity. I saw that one with my grandma Can I ask a quick question? Yeah, did it get romantic afterwards? It's a good question because like those movies can really stoke a lot of feelings and afterwards Oh, my grandma boundaries in his family are fluid all I'm gonna say is my grandma is a real polite woman Meaning she won't say anything about what happened between you guys

Exactly What happened the Comac multiplex stays in the Comac multiplex? Oh God guys this was a movie that I wanted to see So badly, I only just saw it today for the first time But it was like this felt to me like the dirtiest thing you could possibly see because Madonna had her sex book in 1992 this movie comes out in 1993 Erotica her album. I just felt like oh Madonna knows about sex if anyone knows about it. It's Madonna. Yeah

Oh, yeah And that was that was what this I feel like that's what so much of this was sold on was was the Absolute kind of like it was going to be Madonna in this in like insanely sexual role But in a way that was like even more because she was like the the biggest most famous person in the world at the time You know the sentiment is definitely like we get to find out how she likes to fuck Not only for the people who are like, oh, I want to know how she fucks, but I don't want to read a book They were like, I just watch it. They're like guess what we've got just the movie for you It's called Shanghai surprise

It's also for people who want to see how she fucks, but also likes a good courtroom thriller, which Which by the way, I'm on board for like I'll be honest like this is not I this is close to being a good movie This is good movie adjacent Jason This is good movie adjacent. I think it is a Jason because I think you got lost in the Eroticism of the say it's lower talk to me. What like where? Well, I think this movie. I mean, let's get into it. Let's start at the very beginning There's no reason this woman should be on trial Reason I mean things come out during the course of the trial and evidence is found during the course of the trial

But there is I cannot imagine a judge Letting this happen based on what well, I mean nipple nipple clamps There was nipple clamp found at the scene. I'm gonna say that Judge Mabel the sassiest judge of all time I Mean, I mean that is sassy court. This movie had so many I'll allow it counselor Are you done with your bag of tricks? Well, he just revealed a major plot point. It's not a bag of tricks I don't like where you're going. I was like these are all comedy lines So June this is how Joe Montaña sets up the whole premise that she insisted on

Increasingly strenuous sex knowing he had a severe heart condition and when that didn't work fast enough for her She secretly doped him with cocaine His heart couldn't take the combination and she got what she wanted She is a beautiful woman But when this trial is over you will see her no differently than a gun or a knife or any other instrument used as a weapon She's a killer and the worst kind a Killer who disguised herself as a loving partner Bam

Her crime and what she's been arrested for is strenuous sex They have no physical evidence. Well, they've got the cocaine but it's not tied to her right It was yes, but she didn't do it. She did it spoiler alert She put cocaine in the nasal spray and fucked him to death This is the the facts are she killed that guy via Like like like a spray and slam listen your reading is your reading and mine is mine No, I agree with I agree with you in the sense that she shouldn't be on trial because they've not done a good enough job Figuring out that she in fact did commit murder by the way

And so an archer I think this is why she's arrested because an archer said she saw her do cocaine right? Yes, but that's still not evidence that she planted cocaine in his nasal drops I agree in the sense that I listen I think for movies sake they arrested her too quickly, but they had the evidence By the way, action to the doctor again. She confesses to the crime, but You will never not convince me that she does not confess to the crime The great thing about movies is you can see him have your opinion and I can see it And I have my opinion. I

My god going to say though, but having him do cocaine is also not a crime No, if it's a gay if he doesn't know he's doing cocaine Oh, that is criminal intent because she does know Sorry, I gotta figure out something real quick Anyway, I can't imagine what that's about No, she puts cocaine in his nasal spray that is I don't know his cocaine. Okay, but She what she does know allegedly is that no, no, no, she confesses to the crime Make no mistake Madonna says I did it

What she does know based on that doctors that the doctor that she dated is if he ever did cocaine again with the His heart the way that it is he would I guess die instantly If if then compromised again, I the movie He This is crazy But Joe Montaña is correct. Okay, try to do it to Langella Shouts to Frank Langella Langella barely gets away

Well early gets away he the the reveal that he is gay is as if he is a murderer I think he is there was like and I caught him in bed with what a dog And oh like when they reveal he is gay the audience of oh this is a very prude court Is prude well listen my point Jason I know that she does end up confessing it at this point though in the beginning She is on trial for being a sexual woman very much so and her sex for that very reason and the movie is Purposefully putting her sexuality and her sexual taste on trial that is what the movie is about is is that is that her her style of or taste in sex is itself

You know and and the judge has to keep correcting Joe Montaña to correct him away from words that are Specifically negative, you know because he's trying to frame Right what is absolutely within the bounds of normal sex as something that is Inherently wrong or morally corrupt and that is not what's happening, right true Now I will say that you both have good points, but at one point and we've done this show for a long time I just wrote down movies are silly Because there was such acting like when well I'm the foe who I think is a brilliant actor But when he says like that's something I never asked my clients. I was like this acting. It's fun

We're all in a good time. I'm also not really a lawyer. You're Madonna. That's a fun But I show put on a hat put on some glasses. Let's do it in the first scene in the first scene when the police are investigating the crime scene and They've got markings on the head on the rail of the bed Markings that are clearly the result of handcuffs or restraints of some sort the Police the guy who's an expert at analyzing this situation says looks like she was chewing on the wood What You're a middle-aged policeman in Portland

You've never seen handcuff marks on a bed frame And you have seen teeth marks on a bed frame so frequently that you're like, I know what this is This is one of those classic na jobs It's interesting though because the police Should be much more jovial. It's a sex crime But they seem to respect it a little bit more than it like wait They should be more jovial because it's a sex crime. Why because that's not a real crime. No, is that what you're saying? Oh, I are you saying that they should be joking around because it's only a sex crime

I'm not a real crime. It's not a it's it's an SUV you not a regular These mics are hot hot mics Go ahead. I was saying no like typically in a movie like this You would see these cops going. Oh, yeah, but she's enjoying it. Yeah, and they are I was surprised at their restraint Yeah, they're reverence to it, but also then Immediately dropping that when he's trying to put the nipple clamps on himself Like it is without judgment, but it also seems like poor police work So much so they're like put that in the bag. You've just put your fingerprints all over evidence

The other thing was why was Willem Defoe at the burial is he just a lawyer waiting great question Like maybe I'll find a gig today. I do think she I think she says she had called him and He was there To find her to talk to her She says you must be the lawyer because no one else wants to talk to me But would you tell a lawyer to meet you at the burial? I don't have that much time to meet today if you could meet me at the burial That I have a little bit of time after the homily and right after put a rose on the casket

That would be great and the walking car and I'm definitely sure I'm about to be more arrested for a murder I 100% committed The one thing I didn't get about this alleged murder was If Why did she leave the video playing? Why did you leave? I wrote that down, too Um, I was like is like because I thought like at first they describe it later But I was like is that a live feed it isn't and then like so then he just died watching himself fuck Wait in the opening scene. Yeah, he's alone in bed watching the video. Is he dead already? He's no

Oh god. No, he's not. I think he is dead. She didn't do it you guys. He's alive Wow This is a wild reading of this movie I think he is dead, but is he dead at the beginning? Yes, okay, okay, so when we because I couldn't tell I couldn't come up in the videos playing We're looking at a corpse, right? Right. Okay, great. Okay, so a corpse on a stormy night By the way, this movie has one lighting mode, which is there's shades and light is coming in Everyone is getting one piece of light across their face. Well, that's I feel like someone watched a film noir class

That's it. That's it. They that's again. They I think they sold this on it's a classic film noir She's a classic femme fatale. This is what it is double indemnity Don't unspooled us. Do not unspooled us Great episode Ed Brubaker came on talked about his dad This is this is double indemnity I mean that this that this is a modern take on that storyline of her Tricking the guy into thinking he's helping her in anyway. It doesn't matter double indemnity great movie Billy Wilder movie Not sure about the podcast

I Never been on it North America's I've never been on it so I can't speak to it. Can I ask a quick question? Has anybody in the audience been on unspooled as a guest? Thank you. No, they have a bunch of these audience members. Really? Yeah, I invited him a comfortable. I Comp all of our guests. I'll normally just call people in DC and be like you want to come on and just share a thought And now it's time on unspooled for DC shares a thought I have a phone book I just randomly dial number someone picks up and phone book. Yep You have a DC area phone. Yeah, that's big. I gotta carry it with me

It fits my backpack and walk around with it. No, why do you get bullied so much? Well, you know, they could kick me in the back but doesn't hurt because I got that phone book there But I Think what what undercuts this movie because I think you're right Jason like in the very sense of the film being like a noir thriller Like something is pulling the rug out and I don't know if it's lack of chemistry I don't know if it's just goofy like The head chemistry you did. Oh See my biggest I will say this my biggest problem in the movie was that I

I I and I thought Madonna was great, but I did not feel like she had the depth of the potential to have the depth to give that character the complexity to make her truly Like fascinating like the way that honestly Sharon Stone is in basic instinct. Yes I like that and Kathleen instinct to of course. I mean, you know, like Body lover in body heat, you know, like Kathleen Turner. Like these are characters that you are just like that are truly like Amazingly drawn and this just didn't it felt flat. Yes. I having just come off of Shanghai surprise So much better expectations were so low. Of course. I was like Madonna's a star. Oh, no, she's a Wonderful actress and I did actually think she's

She's she's competent and she has to do some things in this movie She has to do them leaps and bounds ahead of shame Shanghai, so I'm not trying to yeah I really mean it like I thought she did great But if the movie I think the move that's what I say like the movie is good adjacent like better performer better stuff I think this becomes a more interesting movie. Yeah, not a good movie. Maybe I don't know I mean, we know nothing about her character or motivation Except that she's completely innocent Well, I knew I knew she was suspect when I saw that houseboat

I was like if you're on a houseboat, you're up to something You will hear this episode then maybe in the near future. Maybe you've already heard it But also in Drop Dead Fred, there's a woman in the in the late 80s early 90s Who's childless single living on a houseboat that is such an 80s? I guess now early 90s, right? Yeah, early 90s such a trope that doesn't exist anymore Like if you would have asked me in 1984 my dream living scenario, I would have said houseboat now Well, the thing is that I let the thing that I love about it though for women is it's a she has no place on land You're a pariah. She's you're a pariah like you're not married woman's land

You don't you maybe don't want to have children like get out off the land. You know what it is You know what it is society is saying drown yourself Their answer is not quite yet. I Thought it was Single ladies want a house that can rock with them when they fuck That's what I thought the house looked amazing. I've never seen anything like that I mean it There's some interesting choices there one being the giant vase just simply in the living room

And just the amount of candles she seemingly hot. Oh, we have some candles in the audience tonight. I Appreciate you those are gonna be hard to drip. Well, okay If if you now produce four candles, I'm gonna fucking freak out three candles Yeah, because there was two then there was three and if there was suddenly 16 candles And then Molly ring wall came in and said I have a question and Jake Ryan But um that houseboat that houseboat is the classiest houseboat. I did some research I googled it today apparently houseboats are very big in Portland where she was where this movie takes place and they're called float homes and

As of right now, there are 450 float homes in Oregon Wow, so that was some real research there I guess What I was really unclear about until the very end was that Willem Dafoe was married to Ann Archer No, oh, no, I mean it was a Julianne Moore. Sorry who Julianne and Archer in this movie look a little bit alike this this I mean Straight up and Archer in my soon-to-be ladies of the 80s podcast a Full season will be dedicated to Ann Archer. I loved Ann Archer, but Julianne Moore Crushing in I loved I loved her. I loved I loved her like running her restaurant. I loved all of all

I loved everything it was one of the best parts of the movie Yes, is the development of that relationship and what she did with so little and Her son from another marriage that is like That is not like they don't dig in on anything, but it's all there Yes, but that's why I thought they weren't married I feel like that wasn't first of all will because you can't expand your ideas about what family structures look like It's just like locked in. Well, I think it was more due to the fact of the way that willem Dafoe talked to a child um

Which was keep in mind. He's still willem Dafoe Can you really screw someone to death? Besides you don't have to worry about that stuff yet No Because you are a good-looking guy Let's go No, no, thank you No, thank you, sir. Here's the thing

We need to be able to talk to our children about how much pussy they're gonna get We can't let them be afraid out there. We have to let them know guess what in a couple of years You're gonna be drowning in it by the way Willem is lying to him. You can screw someone to death That's the one thing that we know about this movie. You can do it. Frank Langella says she tried to screw me to death Like that's the Didn't work and it's it's hard to know so again, I wouldn't tell a kid I wouldn't tell a kid there, but she did hold enough to ask you

I don't know what the autopsy report actually said I think he died right, but it seems he died from the cocaine and not from no No, this is like the strenuous sex plus the cocaine is what gave him a heart attack Hey, if you got to go out, but how would you I mean, I'm really wondering how you Paul are you asking to be murdered? Not a bad way to go. Am I right? We're my bros high five, right? Where are your bros high five but lights for everybody but lights You're gonna go out like on a light beer

We are your bros just gonna be just chatting about it. This is gonna be me chatting about it beforehand I'm like, yeah, we got to go out not that way You know that that's a scene. They probably cut out from the movie a bunch of guys like read the paper Hey, you got to go out Joe Montana says that to the other cop. I could have written this movie so much better Honestly, I don't know Based based on what's just happened. I think not well, let me tell you for the sex scene I would do like this about this. Oh, yeah, you like it and you'll get more of it and I'm gonna give it to you

I'm sorry. Are you acting in it now? Well, I will get I will give a line read because some people say that my June can I talk to you for a second? Are you safe? Are you okay? I don't feel safe right now. I got three holes. It's your choice Let's go Plug it up. Your character has three holes. I'm learning for all the characters. Plug it up like a damn Plug it up that that's a bit that's a potential t-shirt Sure, plug it up like a damn with a guy standing in front of it

Clearly his dick is in the dance. What somebody who's got paper if we say that's a potential t-shirt Just write it down so we remember later because we'll forget. Thank you But I guess I already have a headache. I know I'm exhausted Um, I mean, here's things I want to talk about elevator hand job Parking parking garage sex scene all I want all I want is for a woman to stand on a car and Smash a light bulb so we can fuck By the way They were getting out of court in the brightest of day, right? They were leaving I would say three at the most

They go into a parking lot that is so dark and it's like oh, it's like the bottom of a fucking well There is not a person no one parked on that level at all the elevators packed. So what's happening on p4? I want to know And then they fuck in a parking lot. It was an improvised scene What oh, yeah, how does that become an improvised scene? So Madonna did a lot of stuff in this movie where so, okay Basically, no body doubles were used that's a big deal for them. They were as their bodies and so She would do things to him to kind of goose him

Like the light bulb being smashed and then we'll get into it But she also poured candle wax on him without telling him to get a genuine reaction the third time She poured candle wax which looked like it was on his dick that was real and Wilm Defoe said well Madonna said it was very It was almost scientific. It was not sexy at all and Wilm Defoe said he was turned on It was scientific I would maybe understand clinical, but Scientific isn't right. She doesn't I don't think she's working out a theorem. She's collecting data

I don't think this is a double-blind test They did they did rehearse They did rehearse the sex scenes for a couple weeks before they started shooting. I'm sorry. What? But there's a lot of choreography like that's there there was no no I agree that that sounds Rageous, but of course because because they're so long. Yeah, yeah, because they're so long and to your point They did not use body doubles. Yeah, that's so they had to be doing they're doing long takes This isn't quick cut. They're not cutting between just like close-up of this close-up of that clothe like the way that sex scenes are shot A lot of times they're doing it in camera a lot and less them and they look good

They both look really good. I mean you feel like if you know you're sexy scenes. I will say I mean Madonna has full-on abs Like in one scene when she is fingering herself there. You just see abs. I was like wow Madonna's in shape Hey, Paul. Yeah, is that a big thing for you? Like I don't think I have abs. Oh boy But here but one pervo notice this that Madonna's character doesn't remove her shoes in any of the three major sex scenes Except very briefly to smash a light bulb with her heel. So that's the light bulb scene I'm confused that this the movie that we saw was that Unrated because I feel like I saw her vagina

What did I see what did I just you didn't see the front of her vagina? He's not like the I mean wait shows over black it out black it out shows That's it. We're not gonna beat it We're not gonna be at the t-shirt is the back of her vagina Holy shit Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit What? Wow what? We didn't see the front of her vagina dot dot dot back of the shirt we saw the back of her vagina. Holy shit. Oh my god. Oh

Oh You see knows what I'm talking about right Where did the butt start oh, this podcast is really Cumulatively about the human anatomy and our Try us trying to just figure it out Wow, we wow. How do you describe the parts that aren't often talked about on podcast? Look if we were savage love, we'd know exactly what part of the vagina we saw Wait, so June you saw her vagina

I did I thought during when I thought I saw it twice. I thought I saw it in the parking lot scene It's not a front view of her vagina, but it's like a side view Where if you look closely enough I'm pretty sure you see her vagina and then yeah, and then And also, I mean, I don't know if this is too much to get into But I felt like there was a bush in the VHS video and then there was no bush She switches them based on the duty Movie I thought I saw her vagina another place. I can't remember now

Oh in the courtroom scene when the judge was on the stand the judges vagina, right? Wow Wow, Paul that is a judge We have to respect the chair can I just place some sassy judge by the way we talked about her a little bit Holy shit the back of the vagina is like a real That's real for me. Did you have sexual relations with objection irrelevant your honor if you allow me some latitude I can establish the relevance you better Objection overruled

The witness is directed to answer the question No No, you did not have sexual relations. No, we didn't because she refused to have sex with you. Isn't that correct? Objection your honor the consul is trying to manufacture the implication get up here both of you right now Mr. Delaney if you just bottom-feeding you're going to choke on the mud I'm working toward a specific point your honor We're fast. I'm getting tired of seeing you this close to me objection overruled. I Mean Spin that character off. Oh

I One moment I like that has nothing to do with sex The credits Was when they go out to eat and Madonna's telling that story about the strawberry it opens up on it's like a birthday cake coming By and Madonna is like, oh is it for me? Oh not for me She really seems excited. I noticed that as well It seemed as though they clocked the cake as if it would be for them and I was like why Why would you ever a a?

Hey, they put that in this in the script. It said a birthday cake passes by the table They look at it, but then go back to their conversation or They improved it on the day and we're like, oh when the cake comes by let's look at it like it's for us And and either way people were like, yeah, let's do that Maybe I know that Madonna was method Julianne more said Madonna was so method that she wouldn't speak to her on set So maybe Madonna in her method acting was like it is my character's birthday Wow Wow, that's

That's amazing. I love that. She wouldn't speak to Julianne more and yeah Julianne more was literally afraid to slap her and Apparently came so far away from hitting her because she was so nervous to kind of even be in her orbit Yeah, I guess she was intimidating. I mean Madonna was paid more than all the other actors combined on this movie At the time Madonna is unquestionably one of the most famous people in the world Yeah, they bought this script thinking this is for Madonna like we don't have a movie if we don't have Madonna And the producer is like, please don't read at least that sex book Please please please really until the movie's out and she didn't do it and he blamed the blame the book on the movie Getting this kind of feedback

Which I don't know I don't know how that all worked out Here's my big question I wanted to ask you both When Madonna sees him in that restaurant and she's like tell me am I you know look around? Who do you know that you know wants to fuck like that and she looks around and You know, it's like they got their thing and they go back to her houseboat and she jumps out like a vampire and sexes him He seems aggressive from the get-go like there's no like arc to his character like he literally is ripping off her skirt in the first scene Well, here's what yes, I agree with you like in order for it to have worked It should be that the sex scene previous where he's having sex with Julie and Morse

He should appear to be approved or he should be very vanilla in the sex He's having like don't let me see the front of your vagina. Yeah, or like back only back only Only the back bottom or top But not the front And so I think that like that would have made sense right, but it you like they don't he has like it seems like a very Healthy, you know fun robust sex life with Julie and Morse so then animalistic if you will yeah It doesn't it doesn't make any sense that he would be lured into something a tip This that doesn't seem like a much of a stretch it if he was played if William Defoe had been played by Jeff Daniels

right Like at the time, you're right Nephobia Jeff Daniels. It's Jeff Bridges in body heat Like Joe Montaigne would have been a better William Defoe because he's so stoic, you know, but it is it doesn't play out that way So again, it's it's miscasting makes it not it just this could have been Campier fun, I feel like but it doesn't work in a in a bummer way It just is an opportunity for them to just indulge in eight-minute sex scenes. I Mean and then the trial part this is

One of my favorite trial movies because everyone's up on that stand like twice like I don't think that that ever really happens in a Trial like get him back Get him back up. Well, if he was in this room, he is in this room. That was my favorite moment How did they not see that? Everybody every single person called to the stand is a credible witness for both lawyers Like like like everyone has every person has a full reversal Within the movie's structure. It's crazy This is terrible law

So you agree that even if she did it she should have still been found innocent Here's what I'll say because they just didn't have they didn't prove it She was not found guilty. She did do the crime. Yes, okay, right? Look, let's say. Oh, let's take OJ. Let's take OJ for example. Here's decided a jury of her peers Okay, geez. Wow. We Kazawi. Okay. I mean, I mean basically Wilm Defoe is like reasonable doubt Like he gave a reasonable doubt like he did a great job. Oh should be disbarred. What? You can have sex with your clients. Can't you? Wait

Paul just said what? You can have sex with your clients. Can't you? Of course you cannot. No, that's like not a thing This is DC. There's a lawyer in the house. For sure there is. There are so many lawyers in this room right now There must be a code of ethics. I mean, raise your hand if you're a lawyer. We have a couple. Wow Wow Wow lawyers All right. All right. Here we go. I saw you first. Can you have sex with a client?

So you can but only if you had a pre-existing sexual relationship You cannot start a sexual relationship when she's your client So that's interesting now to know about Wilm Defoe's character That he's risking not only his family, but his professional future and and he's when I tell you there is no question He doesn't he doesn't he goes in. Yeah, there's no pause. She stops him He's he's coming at it so hard in the movie. Well, no, she lit all those candles No, no outside outside outside when she went when they when he brings her home after their celebratory dinner and whatnot

Like he goes in for the kiss. Oh, she's not seducing I mean, she's you know, she's seducing him out of his marriage out of his whatever. She he is aggressive Well, that's why I thought he was only dating Julianne Moore because cuz that's okay to cheat well Because then it's okay to fuck Madonna if they're not married, but when they're dating Everything's on the table June June June June don't my god. Oh, no. Oh god June anyway DC let's hang out tonight, but lights for everybody That's so weird that no it was weird, but there was I guess what I was saying was Like it just felt like okay

Maybe they I mean I'm making a lot of justifications But he just decides to throw away his whole life in an instant There's really no hesitation on his part at all, which I think makes him a really Unsympathetic character a hundred percent. Yes a hundred percent and I mean as a lawyer Can you give up on your whole family in a second like that? Does any lawyers know? It just highlights something which is true a lawyer cannot be a sympathetic character Except for the Lincoln lawyer My kind of hey doing law out of a car

My favorite line is when Julianne Moore and him have their fight in the very very steamy alley It looks like that alley is exporting steam for basically everywhere in the United States But she goes I hear things people saw your car down by the river by her houseboat like who the fuck is Who do you have like who's your intel down by the river? So you could say like oh, yeah, people saw you guys at dinner people saw you fucking in the parking lot There are so like not in your car down by the river fucking Chris Farley reporting this to her It was so he is one of her regulars that character Matt, whatever his name is It's one of her care is one of the regulars at the restaurant

There's so much we're forced to kind of Create in our minds because we don't and I agree. I love that we don't know a ton about their relationship about him and Julianne Moore But it's also Troublesome because it I don't think it serves William Defoe's character like if if we were to understand Okay, she's working a lot this restaurants, which I think they're trying to set up a little bit barely restaurants taking over her life but then they seem to have like quite a lovely rapport and understanding of each other and Co-parenting in a beautiful step parent relationship and then why you're really reading a lot Oh, they're gonna have a really vanilla sex life like not really it's too sweaty for my liking, but I think you gotta get sweaty if you're doing it, right?

So it's just so confusing it's like what is he running from what is he? That's the logic of the movie the logic of how the movie should work where Julianne Moore is and where Madonna is should be Should seem to be two separate like lives should we seem to be there's this life or there's this life? And they it should be a choice that William Defoe has to make but they are so close together in terms of how compelling The sexual connection is their their chemistry is with each other all of that stuff seems so dialed in with Julianne Moore That it doesn't seem more dialed in or more exciting necessarily I'm sort of like Julianne Moore would suck on your nipples if that's what you want or poor candle wax on you I feel like she would

100% she is they are having very fun Boyant yes sex, so that's why the Madonna stuff never felt like oh now I get to really express myself. Yeah Here's a thought I know this is here's a thought I'm just gonna put it out there. Maybe they were just doing like dry humping in that first scene Paul, what do you think dry humping is? Like No, you know no penetration, and he's maybe wearing a little tiny jeans over his like Over his wieners. Yeah, he's got a pair of wiener jeans Weiner jeans you want to get sweaty

You're wondering what Anthony wiener is up to now Anthony wiener wiener jeans This is all I have left But then I do I do I do love also I mean there's so much to talk about when he sleeps in his office, and then his partner like runs outside the window It looks like he was on I mean I guess he's not on a high floor, but why not just knock on the door It's an office you have to knock on the window and the big reveal is hey we watched the whole tape

You remember that tape that we just once again the police are terrible at their jobs in this movie Which is a real you know it's it's a real bad look for the Portland police We just talk about the reveal the final scene and we'll get to the audience here But when Madonna does reveal her end. I mean this is one of my favorite monologues Ever which is this is this is it. This is Madonna Revealing her evil plan You slept with them. I don't think we ever slept. Did we Frank? Don't look so hurt Alan. I fucked you I fucked Andrew. I fucked Frank. That's what I do. I fuck and

It made me eight million dollars So you're fucking dr. Paley here and he mentions a rich patient a rich delicate patient and you figure you can fuck yourself Into the will you know how to do that I'm hard to resist the coke came from dr. Paley. Didn't it? Made it on Tracy. Why are you telling him? He's telling us Now as a screenwriter of this movie, I will say I felt like I leaned on the word fuck a little bit too much in that scene What if yeah, what if Willem Dafoe was Kyle McLaughlin

Mm-hmm. What if Willem Dafoe was somebody like truly who had like a boyishness to him not a like I Suspect if you tore his face off. There's a ghoul There's perhaps the potential that there's a ghoul under there And a sexual ghoul at that like a ghoul who loves to fuck That's the thing Willem Dafoe is the wrong person to be having these to be having like the the the dominoes fall and having all kind of Whoa, it's interesting because Madonna handpicked him. There was no audition. She's like the only person I want to do this with is one Dafoe Wow

I think it's because they're it's like freak meets freak like freaks freaks sees free Yes, she sees him because they do that's the thing the chemistry is wrong in that It's not developed and we don't get to see him hurt here at all or feel like he risked anything emotionally and feels stupid We just see two freaks meeting each other and here's the thing the the third freak is like What are you guys doing? Like the foreign doctor is like whoa, you guys are too weird for me That guy and me oh god Well, let's get into it the audience. Let's see what you have to think about about this DC

We really did it. We really really did it. All right, so I'm gonna come out here to you and then see what you have to say about this movie and Well, my first question will be this Enough sex too much sex or too little sex you tell us based on this movie What you think more less or was just about right? Okay, so what's your name Allison Allison? Too much too much and your question did anyone else think with and archer with the Videotape that it was gonna end up that they were together Madonna

Wouldn't that have been a better wouldn't that have been better And why not because my question was about this guy well my question was was that because did this come after? Isn't it basic instinct where it's her and Jean Triple Horn? Yeah, right did they were they like oh that's too much of a basic instinct ripoff Well, here's I was like if they're in it together if they're in cahoots That's the best this movie wouldn't have known what basic instinct was doing because it was done simultaneously Oh, okay, so they couldn't have crib, okay got that's what I thought was happening It was so much worse that it was foreign doctor. I thought it was gonna be the Sun

Was gonna come back Into the mix you thought the Sun was the step son of William Defoe. Yeah, Julianne Moore's birth They set it up fucking Madonna set it up So clearly I mean I'm an amateur sleuther and I'm always looking for the red herrings But that one you know what I might start listening to unspooled All right, ma'am your name too much too little or just the right amount of sex in this movie in your question My name is Tiffany just enough sex So we talked a little bit about the VHS tape in the beginning

How long was this VHS tape that has been playing since midnight? And this is a good question because I remember the VHS tapes You should have like three settings two hours four and six so it probably six But they find in the next morning my assumption is it's set to rewind and start playing itself again In the logic of the movie because I think you're right obviously that would never continue to be being played All right, ma'am your name how much sex and your question. My name is Danny. I'm too little sex Come on, that's right. Danny gets it more sex says Danny so

the Amazon review for this or the description opens with sex bomb Rebecca Carlson played by Madonna parades around naked in front of The open windows of her houseboat at all hours even while the lobster men catch crabs What who wrote that that's amazing. I know you're reading it. She's right. She's not wrong. Is that user submitted? Can't know anybody edit that no looking at her looking at this is like a screensaver. It's the Description that it wow that's amazing. So weird that is also currently like the I think on Delta Airlines now For the good place it says Vinnie chasing his friends find that Hollywood's a weird place That's how they describe the good place on Delta Airlines. Cool Bragg that you fly Delta, Paul. Oh You know it. I fly coach

And Sometimes middle seats on Delta Oh, you can keep your extra leg room. I don't need it on Delta because the seats are comfortably spaced All right, we have a question from a return live questioner your name when you asked your question the last time and And and how much sex in your question? Yeah, my name is Madeline. I asked a question when you guys did perfect stranger last time in DC Thank you. I don't remember that movie. I said vagina on the podcast So my my mom was really proud great. Um, how much sex way too much. Okay, very uncomfortable to watch

And now your question my question is that so whether Madonna did or did not commit this crime, which June I agree unclear. She did it she confessed I Just want to know what you think what happened today with that movie with the amount of slut shaming That was present in this film I don't know. I mean it is really crazy like the entire movie It's called body of evidence and the female body in this movie is so dangerous. It is the weapon weapon Yeah, it's it's absurd and

Again, what my point which I I'll go back to regardless of whether she committed the crime She should never have been on trial, but women are always on trial Here's what I'll think of sexual agency and Just their bodies, I mean I would like to put some of the men on trial in this movie and just start trying to understand Here's here's I don't disagree. Yeah, no, what are they eating and what's their exercise routine? Because that's what you want them to be on trial. I'll have these heart because here's what I'll say Dying and she's getting blamed for fucking them too hard. No, she's getting bled listen Madonna Confesses to murder and I don't know about you, but when a woman says something I listen and I believe

I Listen and I believe and when she said I did it I believed her Now Jude, I understand you're saying this woman is not to be believed All I'm saying is all I'm saying is this if she had done it, that's fine. She didn't do it That's her choice. That's her body and that's her choice. However Can I pause it can I pause it one time the podcast? No, it's gonna be just a deposit something. I want to pause it something. Okay, pause it the first time

Willem Dafoe Has sex with Madonna He dies And is Paul shame on you that Paul this is not a Jacobs Latter scenario Maybe that glass from the light bulb went into his spine. That's not the first time they have sex well, I'm now amending it and and Then the end of the movie is his fantasy because he can't

Justify this powerful woman not being guilty Okay, where are you Paul? I'm freaking out right now. I'm up in the balcony. Oh, okay With my monsters Lady Gaga has her monsters we have our balcony monsters, sir I Listen just to go back to Madonna for a second We have to remember that this was during a time where a woman having sexual agency and sexual impulses and writing a book called sex it was an insane thing that was going on and I think the audience audiences were so Incredibly curious and scared about what that meant. I agree see it in the movie like people are terrified

And that's what I think that yes turns out they should be but No, no, I think these movies though are Basic instinct is another one. They are equating a woman's sexual power with murderous intent and that I think is Irresponsible to say that someone who is so sexually liberated and sexually free is also like without morals and capable of murder It just so had like I think that is a false equivalency in a and is an irresponsible line to draw in the movie She does murder the guys But she should be treated

But she should be treated as an innocent woman because she was never found guilty for that crime She should be she should she is innocent until proven guilty, which she was not she was proven She was shown to be innocent, but admitted her guilt Not in a court of law Not in a court of law Not in a court of law and she won't be tried again because she worry about it Jason. She's dead Or is she were those blanks Maybe she's alive Jason Bourne went into the water. He came out

All right, sir your name the amount of sex in the movie your question Brian shorter sex, okay so you like the amount but just shorter scenes I wouldn't fight with a montage scene instead, okay and And um, why would you leave more that's a very revealing these this a very revealing answer for everybody for everybody Everybody was too much honestly Paul everybody when you go home tonight everybody who's answered that question your partner is gonna be like Why did you say that? Why did you say shorter or why did you say not enough or why did you say too much? Why a Lot of hard conversations tonight a lot of people saying to their partners. What would you have said?

What would you have said too much not enough Justin? Sir your question Why was Julianne Moore at the courthouse a Million percent and I'm gonna double down on that question and go and why was she on that pier agree? I agree. Oh, I thought that was an archer who's updating her. I Thought wait a minute the very end. I thought that Julian more Julian more and an archer unfortunately had similar haircuts and colors Yeah, which was which was tough. I agree, but that also made no sense because I didn't know who was telling her to go there I guess maybe the same person that told her that his car was there

Who is that person? Hey, guess what? You're gonna want to get down here to the docks because your guy is here That broad is dead and things are out of control But honestly girl put a turtleneck and a leather jacket on and look good And she was like she was like I'm Julianne Moore. I got this on lock for the next 40 years I'm still gonna look unreal Oh She does look better in the house. She is one of amazing then unreal unbelievable ma'am your name the amount of sex your question I'm Sarah. There was not enough sex on a pile of broken glass

I thought that was also dangerous Did you guys know that Willem Dafoe has such a large penis that actually in the film anti-christ? They had to get a body double with a smaller penis because Lars Venturer thought that his penis was confusingly large Oh this gentleman Confusingly large is the greatest phrase. Okay, I've ever heard Confusingly large that means that it in regards to his body Caused like a dissonance The visual was confusing. I mean now we know why Madonna wanted Willem Dafoe in this part. Yes, it's quite clear

100% Wow, I will never forget that I will always be with me. I would love to need a body double for that reason I want to see I want to see a dumb and dumber movie with fast bender and Willem Dafoe called big and bigger and They're just Pantsless the entire time just shlonging it out. The only time I did a nude scene They had to bring in somebody to do the penis scene just because they were like we don't want people to think there's a little kid in the movie You sir said that you saw his penis. Yes, so

So if you watch I watched the Amazon version and in the scene where she is pouring the wax on his body It does a long cut through one of the million drapes that they have and his penis is flopping underneath her person and You can continue to see up and down which posits the question that you're asking earlier Maybe the rubbing and the dry humping was what Madonna brought to the table. Oh So she never had penetrated. Sorry. She never had penetration. I was about I was about to say Oh, she never had penetrative sex. Yeah, that's very sexy and very different What I would love is for women to describe my penis is flopping around

Oh, it was so good. His penis like flopped around for a while You know, you know, we kissed he like he teased my tits a bit And then like I flopped his dick around and then you know, we got down to straight up B.I.Z. and Then he jazzed on my toes to describe a penis like a fish that you just caught and threw on the deck of a ship is a really tough image flopping around

Your name the amount of sex your question Liz right amount of sex We haven't talked about the Farmy see-seeing yet So was it real cocaine and was the doctor in on it? Great question. Yes. Was it real cocaine? Let's go to the monitor. What? Oh, geez. I guess I went up. I Don't mind because it was making a hum now. I feel much better actually So you're the question is what was the the the question is was the pharmacist in on it?

Oh, yes The pharmacist was that pharmacist not the doctor you mean when she goes to get acupuncture. Yes He was a doctor. He was yeah, I think that that I think is That's all that's all not it's not fake It's all real stuff, but I think she was in fact probably in the past tense doing cocaine Right, is that the question? I'm not sure what the question is. I'm This Really have bad cramps or was she addicted to coke or no

She's doing coke. She went when an archer saw her in the bathroom. She was doing coke She wasn't I don't think sniffing a Chinese herb to help with her cramps. She is a murderer Again, what are you guys true? Can't both be true. Why can't a woman have bad cramps and be a cokehead? We're in DC how many women have terrible cramps and are addicted to cocaine by raising sure? Yeah, they're got a lot of hands this went up I like to Always share a little bit of a fun fact now before we get into the next part of the show And this is a fun fact here Joe Montania stated in an interview that filming the courtroom scenes were so tedious

That two of the extras playing jurors fell asleep during the filming of William Defoe's closing statement And so he had to yell at them to wake up And Also, this is the second movie in two years in which Madonna plays a character who picks up a bottle of champagne Out of an ice bucket while wearing black underwear. The other is Dick Tracy. So that's a little again fun pervert fact for you Obviously we had opinions about this movie, but there are people out there with a different opinion It is now time for second opinions All right, I made it through the movie now

Somehow I made it through Oh, gotta get on Amazon give a five-star review Give it up for Amy Great work Great work DC Fantastic job Wow, we had a bunch of great second opinion songs there. Unfortunately, you can only hear one of them But we'll be releasing a full cast album at the end of this tour

These are all of them will be available in a playlist on Spotify We are gonna get them up and keep all those pennies All right, so these are five-star reviews cold from Amazon.com. There are 176 reviews for this film. That's a lot 40% are five-star reviews 40% There's a couple here and I'm trying to break down which ones I want to read this one is from CF Mullins CF Mullins writes it begins with some skin and that skin

quickly turns out to be cause of death But is it murder a lot of people want to know and the answer is not clear There's an ongoing investigation gets all tangled up with more sex in unusual places There's passion betrayal and cover-up. Is there a good guy in all of this? five stars This one I'll start off really simply this is written by Jean to LR and And other of you is this very erotic

five stars Jay Aubrey writes I Recommend that you listen to the erotic album Thumb through the sex book and then watch this movie Madonna could put Viagra out of business Only prudes and those foolish, but well-meaning Republicans could dislike Madonna a plus

Can you imagine a world in which Madonna could put Viagra out of business? I mean Apparently this person does a lot Every here's the thing that year that is the I feel like the subtext of all of these reviews They were all written right after coming Some dude was like This one is a little bit long it's written by Stella carrier Truthfully the fact that I'm a Madonna fan and an aspiring writer or a couple of the factors that influence me to watch

Body of evidence when I ran across a synopsis just yesterday I admit I rented this film and I plan on eventually buying it to expand my outlook on plot ideas for writing on Both the happy and dramatic dramatic slash shadowy sides of life as a writer I wish that Madonna's character could have been gotten a different ending and maybe Showed her in a more favorable light. I admit to I Admit that I was uneasy about Madonna being called to play a man eater due to a man eater being similar to a womanizer And a man eater being an archetype that is judged in a harsh light Regardless of how attractive and or intelligent a woman is considered

I also wish the writing could have been done to at least have a female friend of Rebecca Carlson Who could have warned her to minimize and or avoid talking to Delaney's wife? Even if it meant that she avoids talking to and or seeing him again after the court case The additional caveat is that person must have an open mind to enjoy this film To watch this movie due to some of the shocking graphic scenes Hopefully one day when Madonna writes her memoir She might share her candid thoughts on how she felt about body of evidence and some of her other films Yes, obviously, I would pre-order Madonna's book and

Or Kindle memoir regardless of whether she hires a ghost writer or not Five stars being a Madonna fan slash aspiring author That was that And I ended here This is a Nonattributed review and it just says excellent movie the story the acting Everybody played their part beautifully except the judge. She sucks five stars We love the judge we love the judge we love the judge

We love the judge. It's so easy to get you to chant What that was meaningless and yet you just jumped right on it. Come on Um You'd be interested to know that in 1996 in an interview with Cosmopolitan Madonna stated that there are two with different endings Film for this movie one of what your character lived and one in what she died and they went with the misogynistic ending She said a film was a director's medium in other words Try not to work with a director who hates women in my case. That means I'll be photographed badly and end up dead in the end She and then Madonna goes on to say I fought every step of the way

I had no control women who has sex must die That is the theme of the movie, but it wasn't the way to begin with I am disappointed in it, but I'm not sorry I did it. I think I did a good job, but I got blamed for it everything like I wrote it produced it directed it And I was only there to act in it So that's what she said This movie Tagline was an act of love or an act of murder There it is

And the budget was 30 million dollars Wow opening weekend was seven million dollars and the total domestic gross 13 million dollars This came out in 1993 This movie came in 91 out of all movies made in 1993 so you could see Jurassic Park Mrs. Doubtfire the fugitive this movie was beaten by demolition man Super Mario Brothers But this movie beat surf ninjas mr. Nanny airborne and

Deadfall so it did do a little bit better than our other films June Jason, would you recommend people see this film? Yeah? I mean, I think it's it's it's Madonna. There's lots of sex scenes. I mean, yeah see this movie It's I enjoyed I did fall asleep a number of times twice And when you say fall asleep, I described this to Jason, too You didn't just fall asleep you closed your notebook You pushed it to the side and you put your head down on a pillow It was that you were like you decided to sleep in certain parts of this you what you washed your face

You tucked yourself in you put a white noise machine on true I think I was watching you and I was like I guess she's going to sleep There were about I think for about ten minutes of this movie I just listened and I just had my eyes closed, but This is the second time I've seen it. I'll probably see it again at some point. What was the first time? I told I think I'm almost positive. I saw it with my parents. Oh, right. Yes, sorry. I Would also say see this. I mean listen I would say there are a number of other movies in this genre that do this better

And many of which have I already mentioned? I mean basic instinct Body heat There's a lot of what's the red? What's the Linda Fiorantino? Don't want David Caruso. No, that's Linda Fiorantino. That's sliver, right? No, Jade Jade. That's not good There's a bunch of there's a bunch of Red Rock West. Is that a movie? There's a bunch of like femme fatale modern new ours that I think do this better problem That but I still think this is enjoyable. I think there's a bunch of great performances in it that are okay

It's fun. It's super sexy. I don't know. I don't know guys. I Don't know I think it's fine. Yeah, especially for the podcast. Yeah, I think it's a very interesting movie to watch You know, I guess if you get insulted by you know, maybe body heat guys body heat That's all I'll say That that they should watch that watch body. I've never seen it Am I wronged am I misremembering? No people don't like body heat Interesting jagged edge jagged edge is not a sex movie

It's not not really What's jagged edge? It's like a court thing where you think that Jeff Bridges is innocent and then he like ice castles What's ice castles? I think that's like a pirate ice movie sisterhood of the traveling pants If you like erotic thrillers like sisterhood of the traveling pants or The sand blot Well, we always think our amazing producer Averill Halley for pulling these amazing clips finding these fantastic films Nate Kylie for doing all this amazing research our Our engineer Devin who's here with us here in DC. We thank them all but most importantly, we thank you DC

On a Sunday Thank you so much for coming DC. We'll see you again. Good night All right, that brings us to the end of our very special body of evidence episode a couple of announcements June's book represent a woman's guide to running for office and changing the world is available wherever you get your books And if you're a fan of the good place, well, guess what? You know Jason and I have both been on the good place and maybe you'll be in for a treat in the final season Who knows do we pop up if I'm talking about it chances are probably yes John Wick 3 still out on video. I mean, it's it's still happening. It's there

And I just want to give a shout out to bigmouth season 3 which is currently up on Netflix. It's so funny It's so good. Jason june and I are all in it and of course in a crawl And if you've not watched the disclosure episode yet based on the movie disclosure, which we talked about a few weeks ago You are missing out. It's so so solid a big shout out to Devin who engineered this live in Washington DC To Averill Halley our producer who picked this film. She is amazing. You can go follow her on movie bitches on YouTube also a big shout out to Nate Kylie for doing all of our research Kyle Waldron and also the ghost of Craig T. Nelson for designing some a really amazing Complementary artwork for these shows and of course our in-studio producer Cody Fisher just killing it everybody at your wolf

We thank you so much. Are you just kidding?