How Did This Get Made? - Reindeer Games w/ Howard Kremer (HDTGM Matinee)

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

It's a HDTGM all-time classic! Howard Kremer (Who Charted?) joins Paul, June, and Jason to break down the 2000 holiday crime-thriller Reindeer Games. They sound off on Ben Affleck’s love of pecan pie, the terrible open-mouth kissing, and the bonkers Ashton Kutcher cameo. Plus, a revelation about the character names blows everyone's minds and we learn about Paul’s intimate relationship history with his mom. (Ep. #52 Originally Released 12/25/2012) • Our holiday virtual livestream is on Dec 10th! Get tix at veeps.events/hdtgm• Go to hdtgm.com for tour dates, merch, FAQs, and more• Have a Last Looks correction or omission? Call 619-PAULASK to leave us a voicemail!• Submit your Last Looks theme song to us here• Join the HDTGM conversation on Discord: discord.gg/hdtgm• Buy merch at howdidthisgetmade.dashery.com/• Order Paul’s book about his childhood: Joyful Recollections of Trauma• Shop our new hat collection at podswag.com• Paul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheer• Paul’s YouTube page: youtube.com/paulscheer• Follow Paul on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheer• Subscribe to Enter The Dark Web w/ Paul & Rob Huebel: youtube.com/@enterthedarkweb• Listen to Unspooled with Paul & Amy Nicholson: unspooledpodcast.com• Listen to The Deep Dive with June & Jessica St. Clair: thedeepdiveacademy.com/podcast• Instagram: @hdtgm, @paulscheer, & @junediane• Twitter: @hdtgm, @paulscheer, & msjunediane  • Jason is not on social media• Episode transcripts available at how-did-this-get-made.simplecast.com/episodesGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using the link: siriusxm.com/hdtgm Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Ben Affleck, Boobies, Cowboy Costumes, and a cameo by Ashton Coochard. We saw Reindeer game, so you know what that means. Now it's time for, how did this campaign? We're going to have a good time, celebrate some failure, not just be a hater, because you know you wonder, how did this campaign? Let's want to win the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question, how did this get made? Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to our very special Christmas Day edition of How Did This Get Made? Happy Holidays, I am Paul Shear, joined, as always by Jason Manzoukis.

What's happening? And June, Diane Raphael. How are you, June? Good. How are you, Paul? Very good. Today we have a very special guest. You know him from the wildly successful, the fantastically funny who charted Howard Kramer. Please welcome, Howard to the show. Hey, guys. How are you? This is our, technically, this is our Christmas.

episode. So we were very excited to bring you, man, what a treat. Reindeer Games, the last John Frankenheimer movie. By the way, not a treat. Not a treat. This is a perfect Christmas movie for anyone. Did this come out or on the holidays? Oh, I'm sure of it. Yeah. John Frankenheimer, just to give you an idea of what this guy directed, directed some great movies in the past. French Connection, right?

Yeah. Iceman. Cummeth Grand Prix Manchurian candidate Seven Days in May and it all ended with this Ben Affleck movie with Charlize Theron, Gary Sinise

and Ashton Coochard And Ashton Coochard. Oh, I forgot about Action Coochard. Oh, and Gary Seneses' hair. And Donald Logan. Donald Logue. Oh, guys, by the way, it came out February 25th. It missed the Christmas

Mark. So that means that this movie was so bad. Like, normally they would dump a movie like this at Christmas time. You'd be like, oh, just suck it up. We'll get Christmas money. No, they released it two months after. This is almost in March. You released a Christmas movie.

That's appalling. This movie... It was done clearly by December. This movie sucked. This movie was awful. I hated watching this. This movie is everything that's bad about the movies that we watch. To me,

I was, like, freaking out. I was so angry at how bad the movie was. I had, look, I had some issues with it. But, you know, look, I'm a fan of twists and turns. And I love, I love some sexy acting. What I, the first thing that comes to my mind about this movie is the sex scene that is pretty like, Charlize Saron and Ben Affleck have this, like, sex scene that is a little, like, graphic. Oh, yeah.

In the sense of what you're seeing, like, you don't normally see the part of the man that connects from the waist to the upper butt cheek. It's like a weird area. Minotore-looking. Yeah, you don't really see it. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Minotaur-looking. Yes, because there was a shot of him.

You know what I'm talking about. You're describing it where you couldn't see his legs, but you did see sort of right above the ass. It's like, it just looked like. It didn't look like a full human. It looked very minotore. It looked very minotaur. It was very weird. That sex scene, because I was, I fully was like, oh, they're going to have sex now. All right. Whoa. And listen, I'm not going to complain because it was sexy. But then I had a real problem with, and maybe I'm just not having sex correctly, but does anybody in the room have so much sex in a hotel room or wherever that you're on the bed, you're off the bed, you're fucking on the floor.

And then you fall asleep on the floor? Why not just get up And like that's what they do They fuck so much That they fall asleep On the floor next to the bed I was like there is a bed Right there

The only thing in this room is a bed Happened in Twilight too They fuck so hard They fall asleep on the floor They are exhausted They are too exhausted There's also in this movie A lot of open-mouthed kissing

That's very like disgusting It's like Super wet kisses Super wet wide kisses that are not appealing it's like just too wide mouths going at each one I mean we'll get into a spoiler section

but there is a Gary Sanis and I won't say who the woman is he's kissing a kiss that I was like what the fuck is this? It's just nobody kisses like that it's like kids who've seen their parents kiss trying to kiss like open mouth

right that's how we do it is that what happened to you I tried the French kiss my mom when I saw the love boat one time. No. Yeah. No. She got like really freaked out.

What? I thought that was it. I thought that's how you'd kill. That's how adults do it? Like I saw it on TV and I was like, oh, I've been, like my mom gave me a kiss. Like to go to bed one time and I was like, ah. It was like my mom's like, whoa, whoa. What are you doing?

She caught me way before I got close, but, uh, that's huge. Hey, man, this is a pretty startling revelation. Yeah, let's get into it. I didn't know you had this whole French kissing your mom thing going on. Yeah, man. I tried to kiss my mom like Gary Sinise. I gave her the full-blown sinez. Also, I mean, I guess this is, I mean, this is a dumb thing to, like, pick on.

But, you know, Ben Affleck and Shirley's Theron, both very attractive people. I know movies are about attractive people and stuff. But I couldn't get a read on, like, are these supposed to be ugly people? Or are they supposed to be, like, really attractive people? That's a really good point, because a big part of the movie is that she's set up, we'll find out what her real intentions are later, but she's set up as a woman. who's writing letters to prisoners and she writes...

And she's Charlize their own. And she's Charlize their own. And so, and we learn a little bit more about her that she's in this small town who's had a tough goal of it. If she just got to a coastal city, though, she does know she's pretty. She's supermodel beautiful.

I mean, she is so stunning. But that's what the thing is, he says to her, why is such a good-looking girl like you doing this shit? Is this what you do? Remember when they've woken up from their slumber on the floor? Yeah.

He says, is this what you do? Why are you so beautiful? And she goes, well, when you're, you're as beautiful as I am, the guys that want you only want to fuck you. They want to get inside. They don't want to know what, they don't want to know what's inside.

They just want to get inside. Fucking control, alt, save. That is a good line. Save it. And Frankenheimer is in. I'm not the guy was a line that was in the movie about 30 times. Oh, yeah.

Basically this whole movie, basically this whole movie is Ben Affleck is in prison. He just steals cars. No big who-wop. His prison mate is a guy who stab somebody who was harassing his girlfriend.

And there is a fight that breaks out in jail. His prison partner is killed. And he's released. The jail sequence is 10 to 15 minutes long. And is like an SNL sketch about jail. It is so stupid. It's actually really upsetting, too.

Like, I don't know. I watched it and I was, I felt sick. I felt really upset. Dude, what is really upsetting about it? Because the cockroaches were in the food. Oh, Isaac Hayes. Disgusting. You know that when he says?

There are monsters in the jazz. What was Isaac Hayes doing in this movie? I want to play the part that Harold just talked about. This is my favorite posting in the movie. Monsters in the gelatin. So they're eating some like jelly. What's wrong with you? On.

A joke. It's just a roach. Yeah, it's protein. It's good for you. Monsters. In the gelatin! Oh, calm down. There are monsters in the gelatin.

Fuck down. Monsters! It's the gelatin. Look at this shit. This starts, Jesus. So this starts a full-on prison riot because apparently the cooks, and they haven't just had one monster in the gelatin, one roach. There, I guess everyone has tons of roaches in their holiday jello. Yeah.

And this starts a huge prison ride. And what do you think that it was an unusual day? Like, this is just a strange thing that happened. How many roaches must go on there? I don't know. Did they do it to start the riot? That's what I don't. Was it that elaborate of the plan?

No. No, because at the end, when we hear the, we'll find out. We'll be out of how elaborate this plan could get because it had so many moving parts. It's insane. And he had been half like at the end of the movie. and says, like, how did you think this would work? Because at any point, something could have gone wrong. Because when you realize at the end of the movie,

what the plan has been all along, it's impossible to have been executed. Impossible. It just requires so much acting, so much to go right. Well, let's, you know what? I feel like maybe it will be... Let's just lay it out. Well, yeah, it will probably be better and serve everybody better

to understand how it plays out. So, the monsters and gelatin happen, Ben Affleck's roommate, his prison roommate, gets killed, and now, like, Ben is all bummed. And he's like, well, I'm getting released from jail tomorrow. My prison partner was going to get released, too. He was going to go meet up with Charlize Theron. Maybe I'll take over for him. And he decides that he's going to take over the life of his killed prison partner just to get laid by this hot girl.

Yeah, because. Well, I do think he had some feelings for her, just reading the letters and stuff. Yeah, he definitely did. He definitely did. have some sort of attachment you don't think you don't think it was entirely about not entirely no i don't i don't and that's what that's what they were counting on was that it was more than just sex but he speaks his subtext so much in the movie that i just whatever he says he was thinking i just go with that he's even he's sitting on the bus

thinking about whether or not he should oh my god try to go after charlie's there on and he's like don't do it nick don't do it and he just how about ways in the How about when they're in the department store? And she brings over some clothes to him. And then she walks away and he looks at himself in the mirror in a crowded department store. He goes, just get through the holidays. Rudy, just get through the holidays. Don't wreck her holidays.

Yeah, we'll tell her after. We'll tell her after. Like a fucking Superman villain. Like talking to himself in a mirror in a crowded store. By the way, this is the only movie that I can recall that employs both talking to himself in a mirror or a window. and also having voiceover narration, too. Because there is also a voiceover narrative. That's me.

Like, it's a lot of, like, it's a lot of, like, the camera going around. So he's doing dual narration, dual narration by one character. Does anybody else really uncomfortable at how a skew the close-ups were? Oh, yeah. Every close-up they would cut to was just, like, a skew and a little off. Well, we were talking about this because... The claustrophobia. We were saying before we started taping that, like, this one we had taken to a

the fact when this movie, like, you know, in consideration when this movie was done. So it was like 2000 and Howard saying that it's, it's like Quentin Terry. People were trying to emulate Tarantino, right? Tarantino had come along and now these older guys are trying to put a little Tarantino in their game. Yeah, and it felt like it was really trying, like the violence was a little bit more bloody. It was like trying to be this cool thing. So Ben Affleck takes over the life of his prison partner and he, you know,

forages this false relationship with Charlize Theron they're having a great time they're having sex they're falling asleep on the floor they come home and Benez attacked by these burly thugged dudes

I do want to talk about this so he walks in the door and he gets immediately like hitting the gut with like a baseball bat goes down and at which point another guy pops out of the closet why was that guy hiding in the closet wait there were three guys

there was one guy there was a guy in the bathroom, but it was a guy in the closet. How many people need it? Like, there was, like, again, when you understand the plan of this, not necessarily to have three guys to attack Ben. And he recovers

so easily from brutal beatings. He is brutally beaten over and over in this movie and never has a mark on him, barely. He has a bloody nose in the diner. That's it. But, I mean, I will say that he does limp around from getting those darts thrown

into him. He gets about two Two darts, he has a tortured dart scene, which is also like a very, Quentin Taranty, like, let's torture him. We'll do it darts, man, yeah, I'll do it darts. And he gets like two, two darts in him, and he's like, oh, like limping around, darts, yeah. Pool darts. I mean, they're, I mean, bar-room darts.

Maybe they've gotten like a quarter of an inch in your body, but that's weird. Right. He's like, ugh. But, so basically, we find out that Charlize has a bad brother. The bad brother wants him to rob a bank. No, casino. No, casino, sorry, casino, casino, because. he worked in a casino

but he didn't actually work in a casino the guy that he was prison mates worked in a casino and then he finds out that... And he keeps trying to be like

when he realizes the guys want him because they think he's Nick then they're going to say Nick, help us rob the casino he starts to say I'm not Nick it's not me

I'm impersonating him and the guy's like so you're impersonating a guy to fuck my sister you think that's going to get you out of this and then he has to be like but what he said was he goes

you're acting like you did all this so you could get down her chimney. Yeah. Oh, God. There's a lot of Christmasy. Christmasy wording. Yeah, that's right.

And he does the reindeer games line too. And he says, I read your letters. Don't play no. Convict. Yeah, I've never heard the expression reindeer games. Yeah. Used. Just in the song.

That's it. Okay, so I kept on asking Paul. I mean, I must have asked, like, every five minutes. Like, is reindeer games a thing? Like, are reindeer games? And what would Paul say? say. He'd say, yes.

You actually said yes. I said, yeah, it's from the song. The Rudolph the red nose reindeer. Well, I knew that, but I never heard this term or expression. Don't mess around. Well, I don't think it has any other meaning other than the song. A bunch of reindeer is playing around. Like, there's no other context for it.

You guys have a little. There aren't specific reindeer games. You guys have egg on your face because I look today and on urban dictionary, came up, it goes, reindeer games refers to any fun activities which are enjoyed only by members of a clique, which is often purposely made obvious to anyone existing outside of said click in order to make them feel inadequate and left out. So that would line up, though. But Ben Affleck has no click.

He has no click. He's a man by himself. By the way, so Ben Affleck. So he's Rudolph in this scenario? Well, his name is Rudy. What is happening? Boom. Boom, nailed it.

Look at the symbolism. No. The joke's on us. The joke is on us. What? What just happened? This movie just got interesting. That's the reveal.

This is an amazing movie. Holy shit, my mind just imploded. Are you kidding? And do you know what his friend's name was? Oh, no. Nick. Nick! Nick!

Man, I wonder if we can see. What was Gary Senese's name? Gabriel. All right, so the angel gay brother was coming. What was Charlie's Darren's name? Ashley, but her real name was... Bliton. Oh, shit.

I wonder if they were there? That was the, how we just got there was unbelievable. I'm sure the audience was like 10 minutes ago, like, hey, assholes. During the courtship of Ben and Charlize, when they're out, you know, she's buying them stuff. Because Ben kind of looks like a villain from Back to the Future won. Like, that's how he's dressed. But she goes, I got a 50% off discount. She was so into that discount.

She was crazy about it. She started laughing maniacally. She's like 50% off. But that's a huge discount That's a pretty good discount You're giving away the store at 50% off She was like drunk You know with power

That she was going to go get a hundred bucks off that coat Do you think she got that coat 50% off with her discount That silver coat Yeah That was a crazy scene where she was Right after they got together And they were in the diner

She said first he didn't First he didn't say hello to her And he didn't When he got out of the prison And then he came back And so then you cut to the diner, and he's like, yeah, I'm sorry, I just got freaked out. I thought maybe you wouldn't like the way I looked. And she's like, yeah, I mean, I thought the same.

I thought maybe you'd, like, see my coat. She's Charlize thereon and he just got out of prison for five years ago. Like, I didn't think you'd think I was. By the way, that coat was pretty ugly. And that's the only way they could ugly her up and make her look pedestrian is put her in ugly winter park. It wasn't even that ugly. I mean, it was a silver coat. It wasn't like.

They tried it. Like, they give her, like, a couple of things. She wears a baseball cap and sunglasses. Like, that's how they ugly hurt down. She had like a winter hat on. And then in the diner, the winter hat is off, and her hair is perfectly styled, though. Can we talk about the second diner scene where he eats pecan pie? Oh, yeah.

Oh, that was... I found that disgusting. I found the choice he made in eating that pecan pie to eat it as if he was, like, a starving person who'd never eaten food. But like, an animal consuming pie or... I was like, is this a sexual thing? Like, what's going... on with why he's eating this pie this one. He started chewing up

the scenery literally. Yeah. He was just killed after that pie. But it was such a weird shift in tone because up until then it's all kind of sinister. And then all of a sudden he started saying, you know what? I want some hot chocolate. I want some goddamn hot chocolate. Some fucking Bicamai.

Here's the funny thing about that too. By the time that moment happens, he has been out of jail. He has had sex. He has eaten with Charlize. Like, they've, like, bought a Christmas tree together. It's gross, though. Like, I mean, I feel like, they got cookies. Oh, that was a great lie.

Lots of cookies. When the guy goes, these guys got a shitload of cookies. It's a shitload of cookies. Why did they buy so many Christmas cookies? Who fucking knows? This movie is dumb. This movie is gross. There's just a lot of grossness to this movie.

Right? But why was he eating it like it was his last meal when he clearly could have had that pecan pie and chocolate, hot chocolate? He got plenty of time to get that. Right. Anyway, but. Well, that was supposed to be his first meal. out of prison. But he

his first meal out of prison was Charlize, right? Oh, shit. Can we just play that I just want to, just for you guys to hear the this is the only other clip we have. Here we go. Get him up here. No, no, fuck that. Nick doesn't do anything until Nick gets something for Nick. You got it?

I want some hot chocolate. You want to hear about some job of mine? I want to see some goddamn hot chocolate. It's a pecan fucking pie. Is he doing Bernie Mac? Is he doing a Bernie Mac? I feel like that was a crazy. I mean, you're right.

That's where the movie goes. At that point, the movie is like, all right, now we're on this whole different track. It's like a fun romp now. Because basically what we have not told you is Gary Sinise is Charlize's brother, and he's a robber or a wannabe robber. And they are using Ben's knowledge, but not really his knowledge because his former, the person he's impersonating. knowledge on how to rob a casino. So he's being pulled into a casino ice. He's just a car guy.

He just steals cars. So now he's told them numerous times, guys, listen, I'm not this guy. They refuse to listen to that. They keep him going, no, no, you're the guy. You're the guy. And he throws. I was going to tell you about this after New Year's. Like the two of them, Charlize and Ben's characters, are so strangely respectful of the

holiday. I didn't want to ruin your Christmas by telling you my sociopath brother wants you to do a casino heist. He throws his driver's license in the toilet and then it's real weird. After he flushes the toilet, he pats the toilet twice. Like good toilet. You did what I wanted. I thought, oh my God. I saw the exact same thing.

So stupid. And by the way, what he didn't have to do that, by the way. What a long-term con on his part. He's like, I'm going to flush my license in the toilet. So I have no proof of identification for the rest of my life. I mean, well, he's like, he's like, I got to get laid. I got to get laid. I got to flush.

I understood him at that point. Hitting that toilet out like you knew him. Yeah, I felt like I got him at that point. Because he both was working towards getting laid and not getting fined out. And, you know, you wanted to tell the toilet, good job. Thanks, bro. Hey, look, I always pat the toilet just to make sure. Good job.

You ain't that good. You did a good job. Should we discuss the, when they go to scout the casino and they get him a disguise? Absolutely. Yes. So they need to scout this casino and they figure the best way to dress him up. By the way, this is the most obvious crew of robbers, right? Because even when they go get that pecan pie, it's like basically he is sitting amongst the most thuggy.

of thugs. It's like Danny Trejo, Clarence Williams, Donald Logue, Gary Seney's, and they're all dressed like diehard villains. Like, yeah. And they don't look like, if you tell me, oh yeah, I saw a fucking bunch of robbers in here. Yeah, they're all were sitting around this table with a guy with a bloody

nose. And a supermodel. And a supermodel wearing sunglasses. They were at the robber's table. We had to actually put three tables together to get them all at that robbers table. How many? There's six of them put them at the robbers table. I feel like this is that era of movie making when it literally is like, okay, so we'll get a couple of good, like, character

actors to play the bad guys, and then we just need one of the angry Steppenwolf guys. So either Malikovic or Seney's, like, Sinise is basically doing a Malcovich impression for the entirety of this movie. It's, he is not threatening at all. He's not acting threatening. He's slimmer and slighter and shorter than every single person in the movie. He is not at all scary. Well, how about when he throws those.

darts at him and he reveals and he's hitting darts perfectly around Ben's head like like the kind of the way that they did it like on the Tonight Show like the Tom Hawk thing and and then he goes hey I wasn't meaning to miss you and I've been trying to hit you yeah I've been trying to hit you

so I'm just bad at this but yeah he's not an intimidating no because Ben Affleck cracks wise so many times when he should be threatened like he's about to be smashed in the face but he just is flipping and then Well, the other thing that I can't figure out is, like, they are murderers, but they've never committed a crime before, and they, he is just a truck driver.

Are they murderers? Well, they're, I guess they do kill people eventually in the movie, but without remorse. Well, but not, but not before this thing. Well, she says, I don't know, maybe she's lying, because here's the spoiler alert is that she. She's playing a bunch of reindeer games. Yeah, is that Charlie's Theron is not just double-crossing Ben Affleck, she, because she's, She is not Gary Seney's sister. She is Gary Seney's girlfriend.

Right, which Ben Affleck finds out. But guess what? Another fucking twist. Double double cross. Nick, the prisoner who is Ben Affleck's best friend in prison, is not dead. He's alive. Charlie's Theron is his girlfriend. And the whole thing has been a con on Ben Affleck.

Yes. And Gary Sinise. And everybody. They were counting on. There's a whole scene of dialogue at the end of the movie where this actor has to come out. He hasn't been seen in like an hour and a half and has to explain the entirety of the movie to us. It was awful. Well, but by the way, how about the fact that now it makes me question, did she actually have that 50% discount?

Did she actually, did she really work in that store? We don't know. She had the card. I don't know. This con goes deep. If anyone in the audience knows. Because 50% sounds like an enormous discount to give me. I mean, people who work in the corporate office, don't get paid.

When I worked at a gap, she's put in some years. She has got 10 years. No, by the way, because what she could do is just buy stuff and then sell it on our own and make some serious cash. I mean, that's a crazy discount. Maybe she sold those other guys their clothes. They're rubber clothes. Or their Santa suits. Do you think she got the Santa suits from that?

From the clothing store? From that clothing store. I don't know. I doubt it. So they go to case the joint and they decide to, and by the way, so the entire time in the movie, Ben, I hope I didn't spoil the end too early in the podcast. It's too hard to follow that anybody. Well, now we can kind of really uncover it from all angles.

Let's unpack this. Because basically, Ben is telling Gary Senez the entire time, I'm not this guy. I'm not this guy. Now, by the plan of this movie, Gary Seneas knows that he's not this guy, right? No. No? Oh, I thought Gary Sinise is also being conned. Yeah.

So Gary Sinise does not know that he's not, that Gary Sinise has no way of knowing that a guy named Rudy was reading those letters. Yeah. Gary Sinise just knows. He's Nick. Gary Sinise needs to believe he's Nick. Even though everything is going against him at every point. And even when, even when at the point in the movie where he realizes this isn't Nick, he still says

where's the powwow safe which is something that he invented yes right well no I think you find out later that it was mentioned in the letters it was mentioned in the letters but there is a there's a part where Gary Seneas

try to run Ben Affleck over it with the car and the snow and then she reaches over to pull the wheel but why would they do any of that it doesn't make sense when you go back over it I think she's trying to, she's trying to sell the scam. If I may, she knew. I believe that if Nick had not killed Gary Sinise, then, I'm sorry, if Rudy had not killed Gary Sinise.

But Rudy didn't kill Gary Sinise. Charlize kills Gary Sinise. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Charlize kills Gary Sinise. When it all comes next to the truck at the end. Yeah, she shoots Gary Sanis in the head. She goes, oh, man.

Right, right, right, right. I'm sorry, right. So, but she, but he had no way of knowing, though. You guys. Wait, hey guys. I'm really caught up in a reindeer game right now. I'm really lost in a reindeer game. All right.

Unravel it. Unravel. Even the screenwriters didn't bother to figure this out. So your question is, did Gary Sinise know that Rudy was not Nick? No. That's what you guys are saying. I'm saying no to that. You're saying...

I'm saying that Gary believed that Nick was Nick. He believed... Yes, that's what we're all saying. Okay, so we're all saying that. All right. Sorry. All right, but now... That was amazing.

Sorry, you guys, I got really lost. Still better than the movie. Hearing you describe... I'm still trying to figure out the parental logic of sleepaway camp. It has been broken down online. I got our message board. The movie or? The movie?

The movie. All right. So let's get it. So they go to Caseis Casino. They decide to dress Ben up in a, like a cowboy, like a comical cowboy outfit. Like almost like a foghorn leghorn had formal wear. This would be what he would be wearing. Like when, when, uh, fuck, sorry.

I just killed your whole podcast. No, don't work. No, when Norm McDonald plays. Burt Rattle. Yes, that's exactly what he looks like. That's perfect. Big old cowboy hat, like crazy mustache, bolotie. By the way, this casino is so low rent.

Oh, gosh, terrible. And what is Dennis Farina doing? I mean, poor Dennis Farina. He literally keeps having, he runs the casino and he keeps having the line like, I shouldn't have left Vegas, you know, because he's working in this pot dunk. Why did he basically, he says to these, he's having a meeting with these two native. of American men. It's a Tomahawk Casino.

And he goes, hey, you guys need to do some sort of rain dance and get it to stop snowing so I can do some business. And then the guys leave angered. And he's like, hey, guys, come back. We got Prime Ribb at the thing. Like, it was like, wait, wait, wait. You just insulted these people, their religion, everything. And you're like, come on.

Hey. Come on, guys. I shouldn't have left Vegas. And I felt like every time he was saying that, he was like, I shouldn't be in this movie. I feel like everyone did this. movie. I mean, Charlottes Theron publicly came out and said, this is a very, very bad movie. This is the worst of my movies. I only did it because John Frankenheimer did it, and I was kidding myself to do it. So I think everyone probably got off on that. Like, they're like, oh,

John Frankenheimer was directing it. I agree with that. Like, if you told me John Frankenheimer was directing a movie in that era, I would have been like, awesome. I'm into that. Right. The only person who was not able to cut it was Vin Diesel, who was originally cast in an unspecified role. But he made so many demands regarding his character that the director John Frankenheimer fired him before production started. That's interesting. I bet it was the Donald Logue character.

That's my gut. Yeah. Or maybe like a combination of those guys. They were all Vin Diesel. They couldn't get Vin Diesel, so they broke the whole up. They had to split it up. I don't want to get lost in a twist again. But so, God, fuck, it's happening again.

But if Nick, so if Nick, original Nick or? Original Nick? Nick knew that Rudy, he must have been prepping Rudy in prison this whole time and reading those letters and all that stuff. Right. Why wouldn't he tell him more information about that casino? Like what?

Like, that it had, like, just more info. It seemed like Rudy Nick when put on, the only thing he really knew was the powwow safe. He didn't know anything else about the casino. Good point. There's a good point. It is an unanswered point. To what end?

Well, to me, the whole movie, the whole movie, all he needs is for them to rob the casino. Yeah, but he's prepping, he's prepping Rudy to know how to do that. But he's not because basically at the end when Ben says to Gary Stingis, he's like, wait a second, if I died at any point, could you still have done this? And Gary Cis is like, yeah, we could have. He doesn't say it to Gary Cine because he says it to Living Nick. Oh, yeah, right.

He says to Living Nick. He's like, this is so crazy. There's so many moving parts to this. it would have fallen apart in any way. And he was like, yeah, it couldn't have fallen apart. Oh, he's like, how did you know I would go with her? What if I had just gotten to the bus and left? And he's like, if you had, she would have just convinced Gary Sinise to do it without you.

Right. Like, they would have done it anyway. So you didn't even really need the whole protagonist of the movie to be in it. Nope. No. You were ancillary. And by the way, I would also argue this is one of the first movies where none of the characters are likable. Like, Ben and Fleming, I mean, he's not a likable guy because he goes from being like a very put upon.

Like, he's like, yeah, I just, you know, I robbed cars and got the bum deal. And then he's like a dick, and he's not like he's not, he didn't take, you know, he assumes a life of somebody else. He's feeding toilets. He's just raw-dogging Charlize the run while she thinks he's some other guy. They're all evil people. None of them is redeeming. But she doesn't really, Jason.

What? She doesn't really think he's in a person. Oh, right, right, right. She knows. But he's a bad person because he thinks she's, oh. But let's talk about, real OG Nick. Really is very comfortable farming his girlfriend out to get plowed by everybody. Two different men.

Maybe that's what he's really into. Maybe that's just to see that. Just to set of his girlfriend. That's the biggest reindeer game of them all. All right. So they send him in Bert Reynolds style to this casino. And now meanwhile you think, okay, well, this is a chance for Ben to case the casino. No, no, no.

All the thug guys also come in fully thugged out. They're not in any sort of costumes. Again, they look like robbers and thugs. They're wearing their one outfits that they have. And then what do they see? Well, oh, he sees this guy across the casino. He kind of looks like him. He's got a weird mustache and a goatee, too.

Oh, who is it? Ashton Coucher. What? Ashton Coucher. And does Ashton Coucher have any lines in this movie? He's got two. Two lines in the bathroom. Yeah, which in the director's cut are edited out.

Really? Yes. In the directors. The director's cut, they edit out. I only can imagine that Ashton Coucher owed something. thing to the Weinstein company. And they're like, you have to be in this movie. And he was like, okay, I'll do it.

Is he a star in 2000? Yeah, that 70s show has been on. Oh, yeah. He's a TV star. Because I was like, maybe he wasn't big now. That's not a part that you take. I don't think, how huge could he have been by that? Not that big.

I'm going to look right now. I'm guessing he wasn't that big. I just assumed this was like one of his early roles, you know. Really? I thought it was like sort of like. Like Peeving Herman and the Blues Brothers. All right. Because I thought it was much more, that was a good pull.

I thought it was much more like, look at this, look at who this character is. No, I don't think he was doing movies then. Okay, we'll see. I'm going to tell you right now. I'm looking as I need to be. Okay, in 2000, he had already done, Dude Where's My Car. No. Yep.

And he was on Just Shoot Me. And then, yeah, so he, I mean, he had done, he was an actor. Wait, he was the star of Dude Where's My Car? Yeah. Oh, so this makes no sense. Wait. Did that come out in 2000? or shot in 2000?

It came out in 2000. So I guess, you know, so he was a lead in a movie. So at that point, he also said, oh, I'll take this one-line part. I mean, he was a star. This came out in Feb. That probably came out in the summer. All right, yeah. And maybe this had been shot years earlier.

Right. Maybe this sat around. All right, so you guys are predicting. So you guys are predicting that this is something that he didn't. All right. I'll buy that. I mean, oh, we can just ask Cutch. We'll get Cutch on the phone.

We can dial up the kutch phone. Because, by the way, that 70s show started in 1998. So he had been on that 70s show for a couple of years. Okay, then he should not be in a role that has no line, that has less than five lines. But it's a frankenheimer. That's probably how they got him. Yeah, it's like, you want to come in and do a frank. So basically, Ben just goes, take this coat.

Here's $100. And he's like, all right. And then he puts it on. And then he just runs around. And he goes, he gave me $100. That's basically all of the kuch's lines. And teenage girls went crazy. Like, in my mind, I feel like the wine scenes are like, this kid's hot, girls love them, let's put them in this Frankenheimer movie, this movie will make a lot of money.

Here's my bigger question. The scene after this, when Charlize and Ben run away into like a bank of snow and they try to escape crazy Gary Sinise, they fall. Charlize thereon falls into... Frozen pot. Frozen lake. One of the best shots in the movie. Okay. And then Ben Affleck jumps in after her.

Now they swim away from the hole that they fell into. Well, that happens to people when they fall through the ice is that they cannot find the hole they fell through. That is true. The current might drag them or they can't see. Is there a big? Okay. All right. No, I'm glad to hear this because it looked so bright.

And it looked from where we were standing with them, the shot we were on with them, that you could see that other hole so clearly. That's a huge thing I remember this from as a kid growing up Is a kid growing up like playing hockey on frozen pond Like ponds and lakes And also when you were growing up like clowns would chase you onto that Oh my god guys the clowns Let's not fucking forget the clowns

I gotta ask so much Actually you has been validated on one of the many episodes Of a lot of people came to your defense Oh really? Oh good oh thank God all right thank you people But I remember like there was like there was the whole threat was That you would fall through the ice and that you would not be, because of how, when you get so disoriented that it's very easy to get back up and get, you're stuck there, and you don't know where the hole is that you came out of. So kids would die underwater, not because they couldn't find that little hole they came through.

Oh, wow. I'm so glad to know this. So this part of the movie is 100% factual, ready to go. Luckily, they did not lose their machine gun and they were able to shoot through that ice. Yeah, is that factual? That's what I was wondering. With a shotgun fire underwater, I don't know. Yeah, it was a flaw in machine guns.

It was, it wasn't even like a pump action. It was like, prop, prop. Like, they were able to get through there. One of the most heartbreaking moments is right after, though, when this little man who, this little local yokel. He's fishing on the ice. He's ice fishing. Kind of like a grumpy old man.

He was so sweet. And that actor, I thought he was one of the best actors in the movie. He says so sincerely, is everything okay, you guys? and then realizes that he's dealing with, like, murderous, yeah, sociopaths. Because they all carrying guns. Yeah. Sure.

He starts to run away, and do you think he died in that house? Okay. Oh, no, we definitely got because it's on the newscast. It's the newscast. Oh, yeah, later on. Because later they go into a room, and the newscast in the background is saying, the strange death of a local man on the river this is still unsolved, but the police suspect foul play.

Oh, do they suspect foul play? Is that because his little ice house was shot? up by a machine gun? And by the way, it's a specfowl play. This guy must have been some serious shit. But these guys who are not robbers

because they've never robbed anything before, they're just truck drivers of the dream to rob. Who live out of their truck. They live out of a truck that is like the Knight Rider truck. Yes. Like it's like full decked out

like Motor City truck. Yeah. But, oh my gosh. This movie sucked. I got so angry. So the scene where Gary Seneas is throwing Dars and Affleck, are they in, like, the wreck room of that hotel? Aren't they in the truck?

All I know is that... No, they're not in the truck. No, no, no, Jason, they're not in the truck. Because there's a pinball machine. In the truck. That's not in the truck. No, it's like a shitty motel with, like, cinderblock walls. Yes.

Yeah. And all the rooms have cinderblock walls. Yeah. By the way, you guys will be happy to know that. I guess so, but I'm pretty sure that took place in the truck. By the way, wherever it took place, there was a big fog machine. Everywhere in that hotel was foggy. It was like, everything was defrosting.

By the way, you'll be having to know that Ron Perkins, the actor who was killed in the ice house. He's alive and kicking. He was just on the mentalist. And he was on Veep. And he does, he had a very big part on House MD. So you can check out. He is, he is Dr. Ron Simpson. Oh, all right.

But he's in a few of John Frankenheimer's movies. But yeah, everything in that. hotel looked like that, like, everything was steamy at all times. But my favorite line in the hotel was Ben escapes from the hotel in a futile escape plan, because he doesn't really get anywhere when he escapes. And he comes back in, he's trying to break back into his hotel room. And he's like, ah, I can hotwire cars. I can hotwire hotel. That's what he says. I can hotwire cars. And all he's doing, he has somehow found a knife. How did he get a hold of that knife? I don't know. All he's doing to hotwire the door handle is touching the knife.

to the door, like to the electronic component of the door handle. Just like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, green light I'm in. It may, it was, he, there was no wires. There was no, there was nothing, it was just touching a metal knife. That's how it worked. Metal to metal, Jason.

When he does escape that hotel for that futile escape plan, which I don't even understand why he escaped. Yeah, he was, yeah. And then he tries to get back in. Yeah, it's like you were loose. Like, keep running. Just keep on. running and by the way, everybody

those four robbers are everywhere in that hotel. Every which way that he goes, there's another one of the bad guys like, hey, I'm down by the vending machine. Hey, I'm out reading my magazine. Hey, I'm over here in the pool. Like, they are all over the place. Yeah, one guy finds leftovers outside someone. Yeah. It's food.

These are disgusting robbers. That's a disgusting trait to look through people's used food and eat it. That just shows you, though, how desperate these guys are. But Ben got the one up on them. because he was able to order a lot of pay-per-view. And these robbers did not want to pay for their pay-per-view.

Cleared out the minibar, too. Yeah. Another egregious tone shift where you're scared for this guy's life, and then all of a sudden he's just dicking around and, like, the toothless villains. It was a $1,200, it was a $1,200 bill. No, that much? It was a huge bill. It was a huge, like, I'll print it out an old computer printer.

Like, you charge us all this money on pay-per-view? Yeah, they'd be like, one. One punch, that's for the pay-per-view. Another punch. That's for the mini bar. It was so, like, Abbott and Costello. Oh, my God. And then, so now we get to the big heist.

Things are happening. It's exciting. They're finally going to rob this place. And, man, alive, to get you to this final scene, everything goes haywire. They all dress as, by the way, the big reveal that they're going to rob the casino, dresses Santa's. It's Christmas Eve. Because it's Christmas Eve, and then they, like, reveal the suits, like, we got a plan, man.

And they open up a closet full of, like, neatly hung Santa suits. In the truck. In the truck. Right, and if you double back, the whole reason. The reason he dressed. In the truck. What? He's going, no, guys.

We'll find out. The reason that they dressed him as a cowboy earlier is because they said, if you go in there regular now, they'll recognize you when the heist goes down. Yes. And then they had. No, no, no. They were going to recognize them from when he used to work there. As Nick.

They were like, if you walk in now, they're going to recognize you as Nick. So he goes, that's why I need a disguise. And then they were like, it's either cowboy or ballerina. By the way, why would it be such a big deal if Nick came in and just the old place he worked there? He wasn't fired for stealing. He could have just said, hey, I'm here to visit. What's up? Yeah.

I'm the guy with the problem stealing cars. And it doesn't matter anyway. He goes in as the cowboy, Dennis Farina, who runs the museum, the casino, says, hey, how did you hear about us? How'd you hear about the casino? You know, and he's just like, whatever, whatever. And then the bad guys are like, you were talking to the guy. Did you tip him off? Like, a huge part of the movie was contingent on them thinking that he had said something to Dennis Farina, which wasn't true at all.

The whole movie is based on lies that no one has enough information. And are low stakes. Very low stakes lies. Very low stakes, considering they didn't need Ben Affleck at all. Yes. And by the way. If the plan is walking and shoot the place. up? Guess who you don't need for that?

Ben Affleck. By the way, can I just bring out the larger flaw of this plan? The casino is not making any money. It is losing money. It is a not profitable casino. We're going to rob it on Christmas Eve. A dead night.

A dead night. So usually it's like, usually heist movies are like, on this particular night there happens to be three times as much money in the vaults because of Betty, blah, blah, like Ocean's 11 or whatever. This Like a fight night, there is something. This literally would be the night when there is the least amount of money in the least successful casino.

The shittiest casino on the shittiest night of the year. We are standing to make hundreds of dollars tonight. But yet, when they get in the back room, tons of money. I guess casinos just keep it there just in case they have a rush. Just wrapped up in perfectly stacked bills. I also love that when they arrive at the casino, they cut to Dennis Farino, who's just watching the security. Just watching people come in. And he's going, oh, that Santa's kicking your ass.

Security guy's asses. Dennis Frieda does not freak out when they're a full-on fight where they flip tables over. It happens in the main floor of his casino. He's like, I freaked out on my last movie. I don't need to do it again. Hey, guys, just put a midnight run. You'll see what I can do. Anyway.

But then they somehow, Ben needs a weapon. They gave him a weapon that has liquor in it. It's a squirt gun. They give a squirt gun, and then they pass around a bottle of rum later, which he puts in the squirt gun. Yeah, so he's like, that's a comic relief moment. Oh, throughout the whole time he can give himself a little squirt of rum. But it'll come in handy. It comes in really handy because when Ben is tied up against the wall, when he's, when he is stuck in this one moment, he's going to get killed.

The guy's like, I'm going to kill you. But first, I'm going to light a smoke. Now, I didn't see this twist coming. I didn't think this squirt gone. You didn't? I did not think this squirt. I mean, in the moment I did, but I didn't see it. leading up. The guy's like, before I'm going to kill you, let me take out my cigarette

and my Zippo lighter, and he goes to light a cigarette. But Ben, very quick on the draw, shoots some quick rum at him, and lights this guy on fire in the most Hollywood I'm on fire. Like, special effects are amazing. Like, it's like, this guy goes up in flames, like you, like a fire start. Three squirts from his squirt gun engulfs the man in Like insane flame. By the way, when you say squirt, we should be clear. It's like such a tiny small stream. There's no...

We should work that out, like, see what would really happen if someone was smoking. We should myth buster this? Yeah, myth buster it. You think we should myth buster this? All right, I like that. Get my beret. I've got the beard. You get the beret.

Let's go. I bet you someone online. One of our fans wants to make a YouTube video. I don't think you'll let yourself on. I don't think you'll light yourself on fire. All you'll do is put out the cigarette. You'll just put out the cigarette with the run. Also, I'll say that in this heist,

there are more point-blank misses of any movie ever. Because there's only like six characters, so they can't kill each other that much. They have to miss each other non-stop for the entire ending to make it a little bit. This even goes to show you that it's not even a fun movie because you don't even remember how any of these guys die. I don't remember how Trejo dies.

I don't remember how Donald wrote. Well, you know, like everybody gets shut. Well, the problem is that everybody dies in Santa suits so you can't tell who's being killed. Yes, that is a problem. So at the end of the movie, everybody's indistinguishable from each other, except for Ben Affleck. And so you have a lot of trouble figuring out who's who. Like the guys in, when they open up the vault room, one of the Sanchez gets shot with a shotgun and flies backwards and dies. I'm not sure who that was.

Maybe Danny Trejo. Or Donald Logue, not sure. You don't know. And that's what it's like. You're not tied to any of these deaths because. I don't fucking get it. Like, who was that? Why did that just happen?

So if you, any movies where the achievement is that you can't tell the difference between Danny Trejo and Donald Logue? Yeah. That's pretty good accomplishment. Well, but that's a big part of, well, I thought it was going to be a huge part of the ending when Ben Affleck said, when they say to Ben Affleck that five Santas came into the casino. Oh, yeah. So five Santas need to be dead. Yeah. But there weren't five Santas dead there.

No, well, what you think What I thought was going to happen Was that Ben Affleck was going to Once Nick Once O.G. Nick got killed. He was going to put the Santa suit on. Ben Affleck should have put his Santa suit on O.G. Nick

and killed him because then Ben Affleck can walk away unscathed, right? Wait, but by the way, they keep on saying that they blow up, but at the end of the movie they blow up everybody anyway. They're all on fire. They don't need to put the Santa suits on anyone. They're all burnt to a crisp.

I don't disagree. Wait, and then am I to believe that at the end of this movie, he gives all of the money away in people's mailboxes, and then goes to his own family's dinner? He walks home. When they, like, the movie could have been over so way before that. Oh, yeah. But they took the time to show you him going to his holiday to watch the ballgame with his dad.

That was his whole dream. But he's still bloodied and in the Santa suit. He's in a bloody Santa suit, and he's at home at the head of his kitchen table. This convict. The big smile on his face. He's like, and his last line is, I know what the holidays mean now.

Like he knows. Learned a lesson. Well, if you pointed out, some mailboxes got two. Yeah. Yeah, the first. Like he would take all their money and he would,

like sometimes he would put like one stack of bills and sometimes he's two. So people should know. He walks away with the stolen money. Yes. Right. And now in my mind, I'm like, hey, return that money to the casino because that,

That tribe was struggling, you know, return that money. A lot of casino workers were killed. But instead, instead, he robin hoods it and he puts it in just people's mailboxes. He walks down the street. They finally make him likable in the last scene. But that wasn't likable. What he should have done, he should have started a fund for all of the families of the casino workers who were killed in that shootout. He should have started taking care of them.

I think he should have just either left the money there. and called the police to the scene of the... But then it's evidence, Jason. They can't do anything with it. Won't evidence get returned to the casino? I don't know. I don't know about that. We should get into this.

He should have made those design changes that he was trying to convince them took place on the casino. He should take over the casino. Can I... Did anyone catch the real twist ending of the movie? So he gets home to his parents' house and the entire thing was

orchestrated by his dad to get him home for Christmas. So his dad set up his prison roommate to fake his death. It was a long-term family con to get him home for Christmas. That's all it was. It's a movie about family. It makes sense. It really makes sense. Rudolph's dad.

His name is Santa. No, the whole idea, the reason why he was called Nick was because that was the whole theme of the movie, do you believe? Do you believe it's Nick? Do you believe in St. Nick? Yeah. Hey, can we talk about, he dispatches Charlize Theron. She's on the hood of the car and she goes over the cliff.

Yes. And then now it's time to get rid of the real villain, her brother. And it's just the same exact thing. Does he just sends them over the cliff? Same two deaths right in a row. Ah, fuck it. We don't care. We just do it again.

Let's do it exactly. Oh, but no, the difference is, the first thing, she went over the cliff on the hood of a car, and then the next thing, it's an 18-wheeler that goes over the cliff. Oh, it's a bigger car. So it is basically completely different. Okay. So, shame on you.

I did love that. You need a different license to push those up. I did like his one line. You have to be able to double clutch. Wait, what did he go? What did it is? Wow, man, I'm going to mess up the line, but I did like it. He's like, one first rule, never trusted.

Oh, yeah. Never put a car thief behind the wheel. Yeah, that was it. And I was able to. just reverse into the brother, or to reverse into O.G. Nick. O.G. Nick. Get him and drive her off the cliff. Oh, it was an anti-climactic ending. Just seeing a cliff fall off a thing exploding.

It's like, yeah, right. Yeah. The, is there any, well, you know, obviously we had an opinion about this movie, but it's time to hear some second opinions. These are reviews cold from Amazon.com. Five-star reviews. This is five-star reviews. So here you can agree or disagree with this.

These critics are just pedestrians. These are what America is thinking. Josh Miller says, Reindeer Games works on so many levels as an action film. It's damn near flawless. In fact, I think it is flawless, except for the lame brain twist that was going to throw in at the end. But that didn't ruin it.

So I stick to my five stars. I'm going to have to start trusting Elmore Leonard a lot more because his mini-review on the cover sums up everything well. Reindeer Games rocks. Oh, really? He's more accurate than Stephen King has been about certain movies. So that's a guy who's trusting author mini-reviews on a DVD box cover. That's what makes you start liking Elmore Leonard.

Well, this one is a good one too. Amando Mesa writes, Even viewers who are not familiar with the previous works of Affleck, Theron, or Sinise will surely change any misconceptions about their underrated acting abilities. Because I can't figure out how Theron and Affleck turn on the waterworks. Is it method acting or real emotions? It's incredibly believable. Do they even cry in it?

I don't remember them crying. Gary Sinise can play either good or bad flawlessly. If he's a good character, he's in. intense. If he's a bad one, he's super intense. He turns it up. The only drawback. This is it. The only drawback. This is a five-star review is that this is the kind of movie where the twists in the story will be fresh in your mind for the next three days. And then afterwards, you're going to want to analyze the whole thing and remember it afterwards. So that is the drawback. Thinking is the drawback on this movie. And then, and this one I just, I pulled these to, I don't. This one I wouldn't normally read, but it's so, it's a five-star review, and I think it's funny. Kilmari writes, Seneas is terrific as the deranged wannabe thief once he get past his hideous reptilian looks. How many camera lenses did they go through?

Wait, what? Is the presumption there that his looks are so bad that he would break cameras? Himmerlands? Many. But he is terrific. He is terrific. He is a five-star review. His reptilian looks.

His reptilian looks. He does look a little like a character like from V. And then somebody else just compares a Fleck to, a Fleck is emerging as a star who possesses a commanding scream presence only afforded by older, more distinguished actors such as John Connery and Ed Harris. Theron proves to be the theatrical equal of Marlina Day. So those are some five-star reviews. Is there anything that we missed? Anything that anyone had written down that we didn't talk about? Nobody else may buy into this one.

But I thought that Nick, the OG Nick, he reminded me of Todd Barry. Yeah, like if Todd Barry is like a... Yeah, kind of a little bit of... I like that. A little bit of Todd Barry in him. I'll take that. He didn't...

I'd actually prefer to see that character played by Todd Barry. Todd would have been good at it because he's a, like, a mastermind. Yeah, I would have liked to see, like, because I think Todd's energy, his look is similar, but Todd's energy would have nailed that part. He would have brought that wrestler magic to... That guy, I looked at because I was like, who is that guy? Yeah. And he's been in, like, every TV show.

He's been in everything, but he has never had, like, a big thing. Well, this could have been it. Anybody else? Anybody else anything before we wrap it up? Just if the little drummer boy is constantly getting... sung by a... Oh, yeah. The Christmas music made me sick in this movie.

They ruined the Christmas music. And then there's, like, sort of upbeat Christmas chamber music at the end. Uh-huh. It just, which didn't match any part of the movie at all. It was like a diehard thing. It was like, oh, yeah, die-hard. It's like, yeah, I think, like, I think it was just, like, mashing together. They also fired their composer in the middle of this movie.

So, like, half of the music is done by Akiva, or, like, I'll find out. It's two different composers. You know, they had that February 25th deadline. They had to get it up. Guys, we've got to get this Christmas movie out by February 25th. I thought the pool scene with Charlize and Gary Sinise was very gross. It's disgusting. Where they are revealed to be lovers.

She takes her top off great tits on Charlie's Theron. I'll say that. By the way, she's making it quite a few times this movie. Then that makeout they share is disgusto. I thought that was gross. It's disgusting. Everything is gross in this movie. I mean, makeout wise.

I was very grossed out by it. I was so intrigued by that hotel, too, because it looked like a motel six, but then it had this, like, weird indoor pool area. Yeah, it's like, why didn't have that pool? That's too nice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that pool is, by the way, also when Ben finds out that Shirley's and Gary Sneezer are fake dating, like, the way he finds out about it is he hears like Shirley's

yelling like, hey, get your hands off me, get your fucking hands off me. And then he goes in and then he finds out, oh, they're going out. but she's like drinking out of a wine glass and it looked like they were having a romantic interlude so it didn't look like it was they were in the middle of fight it seemed like they were at drinking wine they were clearly over it right relaxing yeah there was some argument

I don't even remember who it took place but there was a point where he goes you said he was stabbed he took a shiv oh that's that's I said he died that's how it all becomes revealed that's who is it it's Seney that's what she says that to Affleck. And then he's like,

Affleck's like, wait, how do you know he took a shiv? I never told you that. Right. And then they just keep repeating that. They keep repeating her back and forth because that's letting Gary Sinise know that he's being double-crossed.

And he doesn't, he gets super confused and that's when she shoots him in the head. Right. And she goes, oh, man. Okay. And then she becomes the true cold, heart of bitch that we all knew she was. Yeah, women.

Don't trust women, even though she hates men. She's from South Africa. man oh man Yes go Please please In the beginning When he's talking to his cellmate In the cell

His cellmate's like reading the letters From Charlize there on And Ben Affleck is exercising He's doing push-ups And then he turns over And he starts doing like sit-ups But he's just in full conversation As he's doing these weird

It just seems like Where does he even get the breath To have that conversation By the way I kept on thinking like He must have made that regretted that choice immediately, like, as he's like, take 17. Fuck, like,

ugh, because he has to really do it in those scenes. By the way, that's also, like, a great part of the movie where there should be some, like, witty repartee between these two, like, prison image. Nope. None. None. Very, very stale. Even though Ben Affleck has told us in voiceover, and that's my best friend,

Nick. Yeah. It's ludicrous. And, like, there's a moment even in the beginning where he's like, hey, maybe I should fuck this girl that you want to go fuck. Yeah, that was weird. And he was like, and then the guy... Also, a really big coincidence that they were being let out on the same day.

Yeah, two cellmates. Oh, because originally I remember thinking like, oh, they must be in for the same crime. They must have been partners. And they weren't. They were just cellmates. No, one guy, that guy killed. Original G. was stabbed somebody. Yeah.

Ben Affleck just stole some cars. No big deal. But that's the way life treats them. Maybe the ward was like, we'll put you two guys together because you get out on the same day, so there won't be any conflicts in yourself. Well, you know, yeah. It's all about rooms. Right.

Unless there won't be any hidden resentment. Well, because, you know, it's so tough to get new roommates in there, too. Hey, did you, Ron Jeremy's in the credits as prisoner number one. I didn't see him in there. Whoa, I did not see him in there either. I didn't see him. Oh, no, his name is Ron Hyatt, prisoner number one is what it says. Oh, but it is him, yeah.

Ron Hyatt is Ron Jeremy. That's his A.K.A. Yeah, yeah. What? Did not know that. Wow. Hey, I don't know if you guys, you know the movie Bandits came out around the same time. with Bruce Willis.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no. That's the one where he's, like, having cancer, him and, oh, man, the guy from Billy Bob. So I'm not that familiar with this movie, but this kept reminding me of it because it's like just that same era and kind of these sprawling crime trips.

Directed by Barry Levinson, too, like an older director trying to get in on this new, like. Yeah, but I think that one's terrible, too. I'm not sure if it's as bad as this. All right, we'll have you back. for that thing. Stay tuned for bandits. 2001's bandits.

Opening weekend, $13 million, $80 million budget. Wow. This movie was $40 million, and it made $30 million worldwide. It all said and done. Wow. And all said and done. Did Frankenheimer just pass away, or they just said no more for you? That was it.

He went to movie jail permanently. That was his last film. Well, would I recommend that you watch this? I wouldn't think it's a necessity to see it. I think you could pass on it. I think if you want to watch that ice fall scene, it's pretty good. And maybe the end, the end is pretty good, too. Yeah, you can, this is a watch while fast forwarding.

Yes. All right, so that wraps up reindeer games. Merry Christmas to all those who celebrate it, and happy holidays to all those who don't. See you in the new year.