How Did This Get Made? - The Lair of the White Worm

Episode Date: September 25, 2026

Hugh Grant, Amanda Donohoe, and Peter Capaldi star in Ken Russell's nutso 1988 horror cult classic The Lair of the White Worm. Paul, June, and Jason discuss the plane sex dream sequence, if Lady Sylvia Marsh lives in the snake basket, all the phallic imagery, the rules of the white worm's followers, Amanda Donohoe's amazing performance and costumes, if the butler was weird or just British, and so much more. Buy our "Snakes and the City" shirt design HERE. • Join our Vulture Movies Fantasy League at vulture.com/hdtgm • Go to hdtgm.com for tour dates, merch, FAQs, and more • Leave us a voicemail at speakpipe.com/hdtgm • Submit your Last Looks theme song here • Join our Discord at discord.gg/hdtgm • Buy merch at howdidthisgetmade.dashery.com/ • Order Paul’s book about his childhood: Joyful Recollections of Trauma • Shop our new hat collection at podswag.com • Paul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheer • Paul’s YouTube page: youtube.com/paulscheer • Follow Paul on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheer • Subscribe The Dark Web w/ Paul & Rob Huebel: youtube.com/@enterthedarkweb • Listen to Unspooled with Paul & Amy Nicholson: unspooledpodcast.com • Listen to The Deep Dive with June & Jessica St. Clair: thedeepdiveacademy.com/podcast • Instagram: @hdtgm, @paulscheer, & @junediane • Twitter: @hdtgm, @paulscheer • Jason is not on social media • Episode transcripts available at how-did-this-get-made.simplecast.com/episodes Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using the link: siriusxm.com/hdtgm Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's snakes on a plane. I mean, actually, literally it is, but it's also snakes in a lot of other places, like a Downton and a pit. There's a lot of snakes. We saw a layer of the white worm, so you know what that means. Now it's time for how to discriminate. We're going to have a good time, celebrate some failure, not just be a hater, because you know you wonder, how did this campaign?

Let's want to win the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the problem. Question, how did this get made? Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to How Did This Get Made? I am Paul Shear, and today we are kicking off spooky season with the 1988 cult horror film, The Lair of the White Worm. The plot of this one, tricky, tricky, tricky. Good luck. I really should introduce you to then try to break this down, but I'll do it by myself.

The plot synopsis for this would be very difficult. Okay, so there's this archaeologist, Angus Flint, played by Peter. Peter Capaldi. Like a kid. Kid Capaldi. Kid Capaldi, kid Doctor Who. He's digging up. By the way, at one point in the movie, I thought, I thought Hugh Grant was playing

both characters. Yes. Also, Hugh Grant is in it, and I thought the same thing. Hugh Grant is in it, and Peter Capaldi has classic early Hugh Grant floppy hair, aka Jessica St. Clair's college haircut. There was a wide shot of them walking into the house, and I could not tell. sell either of them apart. Similar bone structure, similar teeth.

Like, it was really confusing. Yeah. No, they look like brothers more than the women playing sisters look like sisters. Well, this is a good point. Brings us to the next plot point, which is this archaeologist, Dr. Hu, Peter Capaldi, he is digging up the backyard of this B&B run by these sisters, Mary and Eve Trent. Now, Eve Trent is dating Hugh Grant, not Hugh Grant, the actor, but this young lord. That would be awesome.

She's dating this young lord. And basically, Hugh Grant's family is associated with this bizarre local legend that says his ancestor slayed a giant white worm centuries prior. Now, the movie's villain is the Trent sisters. seductive neighbor, Lady Sylvia Marsh, who is amazing. I mean, she's A-plus in this movie for me.

Incredible stuff. And she is an immortal being, who's been alive for centuries, helping to maintain. So this is like all the folk tales rolled into one, essentially. So with a little bit

of the occult thrown in. And she's also a snake, right? I mean, she's a snake as well. I believe. that is how she is immortal. And she is... Although we don't ever see her as a snake. No.

We get her blue. We see her blue and we see her physicality as a snake. But when she is in the basket where I think she sleeps... Guys, we got to talk about the basket. We got to talk about the basket. At one point, she's charmed

by the music that Hugh Grant is playing from his manner out of giant red space. Right. Giant red speakers that look like indoor speakers that were somehow, uh, yeah, I mean, the, the Butler says that he had the men hook it up like that, like, as per Hughes request. Okay, so we'll get into the, that tech element in a second, but. I mean, imagine you're their neighbor. That's like living next door to a TikTok guy. When she's slithering out of the basket and she's doing such incredible physical snake work,

Incredible stuff. But she's a person. So my question is, if we were to open that basket at any point during the movie, would a snake be in there? You know, or would a lady be in there? I don't know if, so the movie doesn't answer that question because there is the white worm, the big, like prehistoric snake worm element that is in the cave, in the cavern at the end. Who's also a god, maybe the devil? Well, yes. And the white worm is kind of still alive centuries past

because he's going through tunnels underground in this English countryside. But funny fact that I found in researching it, the white worm is the hood of a VW bug that has been painted. Oh, that's really funny. The actual white worm? Yeah, that mouth that is in the cave coming up is just a... Well, that was very well done.

It was very well done. I will say, and I mean, you know, I think, you know, this movie does it deserve to be on the show? Absolutely. There's so much to unpack and talk about it from this movie. But this is a proper Ken Russell film. You know, like this is a success as far as I'm concerned. Absolutely. It is exactly what when I saw, we watched it on Prime Video and when I saw.

Not a plug. Not a plug. Yes, we have an upcoming show on Amazon Prime. It's not a plug, though. It's not a plug. No, you call a Prime Video. I'm starting in a prime video series. First season is out.

But when you turn it on, there is a big sticker that, or there's a sticker on top of the icon that says cult classic or cult cult horror or something like that. And I was like, oh, well, I guess we'll see about that. But as soon as it started, and from beginning to end, I was like, this is absolutely successful in every single way. Agree. I agree 100%. I mean, it's a nutso-mug-go-mogat-o movie. This to me, and it's so funny that we're doing this so close to the legend of Billy Jean, only in as much as both of them, for me, are iconic VHS boxes for rent in the video store. The legend of Billy Jean, I rented one million times. But the layer of the white worm, I didn't because it was like R-rated. And even from the box alone, I was like, I know there's boobs in that. There's definitely going to be. boobs in that movie and guess what? There was. So many boobs. And by the way, there was going to be some, some dong in there as well. But the guy that she attempts to kill in the bathtub got

nervous on the day of the shoot and refused to take off his swimtrunks. That's okay. He was quite young. By the way, these voices that you're hearing are Jason Manzukas and June Diane Rayfield, but you all know that. Oh, wow. For new listeners. Yeah. Here's the thing. Here's what I was confounded by. When we meet the Trent sisters at their Airbnb, and they are sort of portrayed as like real country bumpkins.

But when we meet them, when we meet them, they're in a great mood. Yeah. They're doing bits. They're jaunty. They're, you know, giggling,

having fun, taking the piss. Out of Angus. They call them, they call them like, Mr. Smart. They, you know,

How do you know that Mr. Smart, but he is an archaeologist. You should know some of these things. Well, but we will come to find out that their parents have disappeared. Only a year ago. Like a year ago, yeah. Within the year. Yeah. Locally.

Feet away. Yeah. I mean, doesn't. Wait, that doesn't necessarily line up with those two women that I saw. Yeah. I also couldn't figure out the time it took me to figure out who's ang it. Actually, I still don't know. How are they connected to Angus?

That's what I don't know either. I don't know. At first, I thought he was just a guest at the Airbnb, who's an archaeologist who decided to excavate the backyard. But then he so quickly finds the fossilized skull of a snake, of a giant snake, that they're conjecturing as a dinosaur or he's also uncovered Roman era, coins and so forth. So does he know that stuff? He's digging right where all this stuff is.

Does he know something? I think he says that he is digging on the site of an old convent. And I don't know if this is what they do. Oh, that makes sense for the end of the movie. Yes. When she's trying to kill. Oh, yes. But Paul, how does he know that?

Well, this is a great question because I'm imagining that, you know, when you're a young archaeologist, they go, okay, now your final project, not write an essay, just go out into the field, dig your own pit by yourself and see what you can find. Because he does seem to be doing this without. there's no reason to have dug up anything, and it just seems like he's out there. Well, now that you say that about the convent, I guess it does make a little sense to me because he knows there's a thing there. And at the end of the movie,

when Eve is kidnapped by her ladyship, her ladyship is like, I've known you for centuries. Reincarnation is real. I've met you before. You used to be a nun. And you and your coven, or your con, you built a con,

convent on the site of my whatever, you know. So he knows the convent was there. What he doesn't know is that the convent was part of this other. Right, because the snake thing is... ...vcult version snake thing. Now, what I will say is this. It's one of the very few movies that I watched the first five minutes of, and I said, I don't understand anything, but I'm not worried about it.

And I think if you can really just check out, there's a lot of talking there. And almost madcap talking like 1940s kind of like, Papa, pop, pop, pop, blah, blah, blah. I was like, Who's Angus? You'd think he'd found the missing link or something? Don't worry. It's only an old fossil.

It won't bite. Sexy beast, didn't he? The caveman, I mean. It's that's a primitive man. It looks like a dinosaur sat on him. It is a dinosaur, I think. Oh, go pull the other one. Oh, dad had a cow look like that one's called Bessie.

I reckon that's Bessie. Silly moo, that's not a cow. It's got no horns. Stop me spot a dick. And it is, I think, meant to put you off balance. And I feel like, to your point, Ken Russell is constantly doing this, right? Ken Russell, if you don't know, was known for a movie called Altered States. He made Tommy.

Just a filmmaker who could make something genuinely beautiful one minute and completely insane the next. Like a real avant-garde provocateur filmmaker. filmmaker of that era. So, you know, all of the crazy psychedelic stuff that's part of like the visions people are having when they get bit by the snakes, that to me is vintage Ken Russell as well as Oh, loved all of it. As well as all of the religious stuff, you know, that like that so much of it is a battle between the followers of Christ and the rejected followers of some snake god.

Yes, but can I just say, though, the followers of Christ? don't seem to be very religious. Aside from having a crucifix up, which seems like a remnant of their parents, they don't go to church. They don't seem to call on any sort of higher power for comfort or faith or anything. They don't seem, they just seem to be living on top of an old convent.

And I do think that's part of it, is they were living on this site and are the reincarnated versions of the nuns who lived there. I think it is cumulative. Okay. You know, again, I might be reading this wrong. I'm going by just the speech that her ladyship gives to Eve when Eve has been abducted. Well, now I'm also thinking that there's a thing where you have the Order of Christ, but then Romans, I'm going to group them together because the Romans are also very sex forward, I would say, as we've seen that orgy scene, but the Romans.

Romans are basically having an orgy under Christ on the cross, that's happening too. I wouldn't say an orgy. I would say the Romans are pillaging and raping all of those nuns. Okay, got it. That seems like an important distinction. And my guess is that those soldiers are from the rebellious leader who is the statue in her house. I think that's right. She follows a, what was he called the rebel emperor or something like that?

She follows a bad guy. And I think those Romans are the Romans that were part of her ladyships group of people. Because she talks about having been alive at that time. Yeah. Her lover was that emperor, you know. Now, I will say that there is a British tale about the Lampton worm. which is kind of like not even, I wouldn't say an urban legend. It's more of like a fairy tale about a young boy who goes fishing and he catches a worm.

And then the worm kind of continues to change. Somebody can really set us straight, not that we need to know everything. But this is kind of based on some old folklore. And then it's also based on this other book that he read, but he hated. And he wanted to kind of just really celebrate Bram Stoker's Dracula. So he kind of combined. Oh, and he also combined some of his neighbors. So Ken Russell's version of the events here are a little bit of Bramstone.

That's funny. A little bit of Dracula, a little bit of his neighbors, a little bit of an old tail. What I did like about it was, even though there is, it's small in scope in terms of like it's English countryside, English manner, all that stuff. But there's not that many people in it, but you do really get a sense of this oddball, small English town. I think to see with the cops. The cops. So much so. Ernie the cop.

Yeah, great. Peter the Butler, who by the way, I want to talk about Peter the Butler for a long time. Let's get into it. Peter the Butler, both Paul and I thought for most of the movie that he had already been bitten. Yeah. He looks to me off. Oh, no.

He's just British. Okay. He's just, you have to forgive me. You have to watch it through a lens that is British people. Okay. But why was he, first of all, making so much noise that morning when Hugh was sleeping? He is, my guy is too old. So much noise.

But then every time Hugh Grant would say something like about what was going on or what he was preparing or what or the lady, he was having these reactions and these eyes, big eyes, small, back to big eyes, small. look almost look straight to camera. It felt like so much was going on with him that we didn't know anything about. I agree with that. I agree with that. He was also very sweaty all the time. And also, he seemed like, I kept being like, does Peter have more to say? Because every once in a while, he'd be like, I remember your father did this thing.

And I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa. Did his father have information that Hugh Grant needs to defeat the wife? White Worm, does Peter have inside info for Hugh Grant? But no, the answer is no. But I kept being like, oh, he seems to have information from the past about how Hugh Grant's dad might have dealt. But do you think that that's a British thing? Like, he won't really... Yeah, too polite?

Yes, too polite. Now, one of my only critiques of the movie is that we didn't make the Trent sisters, like the protagonists and the heroes of the movie. I mean, I thought that was so bizarre. But when Hugh Grant is, he says he's just come into the inheritance, and he's living just like an aristocrat, and there's housemaidens, and there's a butler. And I kept on asking myself, what year is it? Oh, it's modern.

It's contemporary to the 80s. They have cordless phones. I know. No, but there were, the way he was living with Peter was, it felt like so much. British. I agree. But here's what the, here's the horrifying news I'm going to tell you. These people are still living like that.

Like, we could make a show right now and it's the same. But he felt very down to Navi. But then they would have like incongruous things like the band playing there. That was very 1988. But then also he's going through his record collection, like his. vinyl record collection, and that also felt 1998, but it was in a room that feels like it hadn't been updated since Downton, right? I mean, I agree with you 100%.

I do feel like the lives of the aristocrats don't look very different today from 1988, from 1948 to 1928. It's a good point because, corrects me if I'm wrong, Hugh does not have a job in this movie. No. His job is to be a snake killer, a worm killer. But when he puts on his aristocratic finest and he goes over to the lady's house, what is his, and he says, I just heard you got, I heard your snakes. Well, because I think he is, his ancestors killed the worm.

So I think now he's like, I guess I'm just saying he put on a uniform as though he was a part of the military. Right. To go get that. So he was a part of a larger organization. He's wearing that. I agree with you there. He's wearing that uniform at the party. too. Yeah. And so that led me to think like, oh, might he be a soldier? Or was he some sort of

military man? It doesn't get really referenced. And it's not like he has any expertise in battle that is helpful to fighting the snake or the worm. That's not the case. I almost feel like he is the rich person of the county. And if there's any problems, he's kind of, he's at the mayor. Like, he's coming out and he's checking in. Well, and it's his land. That's the other thing he's saying is this is, it's his land. He owns her house and he's basically, I heard you had some trouble, you know. But he is so good at being this kind of fancy, without a care in the world. Like, there are multiple people who've turned into vampiric snakes in his home. And he's on the phone being like, you know, I think there's more reptiles here. It's cool. He keeps it cash. He doesn't hold the sword.

He doesn't ever raise his voice. He's never shocked by him. any casual. Look, this is, I think, what is hard to parse. It's the Britishness that is bizarre because when that cop, who is doing a full-on comedy scene, and I do believe that there are scenes in this movie that are being played for the scene where he's like, Charlie, Ernie here. Where are you? And we'll put Temple out. There's an intruder

on the premises. Get over here as quick as you can. How can I? You've got car. I know I've got the car. Get taxi. arrested him for drunken driving. You've locked him up for drunken driving. I don't believe it. I'm having me dinner. I don't care if you are in the middle of your supper. But me turkey will be ruined.

Fuck the kill Kenny fried turkey and get on your bike. I can't. My pump's broke. I see. Well, you can take your bicycle pump and shove it up your ass. You know, they're doing the hell scene. Right, then he sees this woman in the middle, of the woods and she is dressed to the nines and she's in white and she looks right.

He doesn't take her in as being odd or anything. Like, and now I, he knows her. Okay. It's her, it's her ladyship. She's like the, the boss of, of this, you know. But she's not there all the time. Well, she's not there because she hibernates, she says. Well, that's, so I think she's in that basket, right?

So she's come back. So he sees her, but then the basket the whole time. I think she's in the basket the entire time. Something like that, yeah. You know, like I think the basket is her. coffin, like her Dracula coffin. I think when he unearthed the skull. That shook her up?

I think so. But then how would he know her? That's the thing. I don't think he knew her. And I don't think that Hugh knew her. He refers to her. When she's, he gets bitten by a snake on his foot.

We don't see that. He goes to the ground. Even though it seems like it's in the same scene. Yes. She walks out from behind the tree and says, excuse me, are you okay? And he says, your ladyship. I didn't know you were here. And she says, don't you know, I changed.

all the time and blah, blah, blah. She says, I won't call him Ernie. His name is Ernest to me. Like, I feel like he knows who she is. Okay. Not well. You know what I mean? Like, I think she's just the woman that lives in that house.

Got it. All this to say, he knows or he doesn't know her. He doesn't seem to be a good cop at all because when she is sucking that poison out. Not out. Yeah, he does not seem to, he's not put off. You don't even have to wait until then. He is a bad cop, like, like, like, From the jump.

But again, what I loved about the movie is, like, to your point, Paul, that these are his neighbors. Like, this is a real, like, I was talking. There's 12 people. Yes. He's, any of those, like, Agatha Christie kind of mysteries where Poirot has to go to the country manner to solve the murder, there's always an ineffectual cop who's just a buffoon. Right. And this guy is that archetype to a T. It's just so funny, though, because he's that archetype, and that's great.

But then you kind of want the trans sisters to actually want to find their parents. And at times they do. I mean, Mary is heading off on the search with the search party in the cave. But in the same breath, she's, when she goes out again with the archaeologist and Hugh Grant, and they try to draw some connections on what could have happened, how the watch. She's like, that can't be possible. You're crazy. You guys are crazy.

We need to give up now. None of this makes sense. Wait, talking about a Lochmus monster. She's so unwilling. Yeah. To investigate what might have happened. Well, not only that. This is why her parents have been gone for a year.

She probably didn't even go looking for him. She's like, let's not seem that she has. Yeah. She's not worried. I felt like the person that I wanted to hear more from was Eve. because Eve had the visions when she touched the crucifix but she didn't remember them

oh she does right she says I didn't remember them so she does have a very clear vision in a filter that allows her like she had some sort of Instagram filter over her vision but she doesn't but then we see that whole thing

she's kind of repelled back but then doesn't remember it which is a tricky thing for a movie to do to give a character insight and then take it away I kept wanting for because she's been touched by the worm, I kept wanting her to, like, the closer they got for her to become more disturbed or more, have more visions or whatever, so that we would be able to track their progress

because you're right. I couldn't figure out the who, where and why of their parents, you know? And that is what's hard about the movie. And again, I loved every moment of it. But the rules of the white worm are hard to understand. It seems sometimes if you get just. close to her, to the lady worm, you're under the spell. Sometimes she needs to just touch you and then you're under the spell. Sometimes you need to be bitten and then I think you become a worm. Well, I think when she bites people, she freezes them to be fed to the big worm. That's like her, that's like her.

If you're a virgin. If you're a virgin. Yeah, that's only virgin stuff. This is all very analogous, I think, to vampires. That's the, that's the Dracula thing. All the glimmering, all the captivating. all the turning people. Medusa even.

And sometimes a vampire feeds on someone and they die. And sometimes a vampire feeds on someone and they become immortal other vampires. You know, it goes both ways. And that's why at the very end when that woman, we cut to that woman in the research center

who was talking to Angus about the, you know, serum that was fucked up. I thought she was a snake lady. Oh, I thought so too, but mostly because she kind of looked to like the other woman. This is just similar British faces.

That's what's her name from Notting Hill. You can't explain everything by just saying your British face. Just remember British. Well, I mean, look, there's a couple things. But she was giving, is this British? Because she was giving much like Peter, way too much to us. Especially for someone who just was hired in a scientific capacity to analyze a serum. If she's nobody, put her on the phone and let them listen.

I thought that she was a snake in the city. which is also my sequel to this snakes in the city about a bunch of hot ladies in the city dating, making snakes. Guys, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. I'm a Samantha. Samantha. Samantha, you're so bad. I have a couple questions that take away from the mythology of the movie, because I think we'll stay a long time breaking this down. Is this the most drab of B&B we've ever seen?

I think that these, this is not a place I want to stay. It took me multiple instances of people mentioning that they had visitors or staying there. And I was like, oh, whoa, right. This is a hotel. And they never got their hot water bottles at night. They're freezing at night. You know there's no, like, central eating. And a B&B is even more involved.

The hosts have to be even more involved. They have to be barely breakfast in the morning, you know. They're going out and staying out all night. They're going to parties. They're getting lost in the wall. woods. They don't even think that they have food in the house. There's a moment where there's a shot in the kitchen. There's nothing on the wall. It looks like nothing. It looks like the house is abandoned. And they, you know, there's a part where I'm like, I don't know what's going on

here from a business standpoint. And then I'm starting to make other connections to this world where I'm like, okay, now I look over at the lady's house, you know, Lady Sylvia Marsh's house. And I'm like, and I'm really trying to make heads or tails of that bathroom. Because her With that bathroom with that bathtub. Sure, I love it, but it's a waste of space. Oh, and a house that big? I mean, I guess, is that a normal style of a bathroom where you would have like three balconies leading to a singular tub?

I mean, it's similar to a tub I saw at Hogwarts. Yeah, and listen, there was a time. What I agree with you about is that that's, that bathroom looks like a remodel. Like, someone made that in 1984. That is in 1980, yes. That's like a cocaine, Wall Street kind of bathroom remodel. Oh, it's a scarface bathroom? Yes.

I miss. I miss, there was a time in interior design architecture and homes where we used to, like, present the tub as though it was an indoor pool. And that's a perfect example of it. And I miss those days. Well, it's this thing where I feel like tubs became so dominant, big soaking tubs with jets and all this stuff. Where you'd walk up a flight of stairs to get to it. And then I think people correctly were like, I don't use this enough for how much. much real estate it has in my bathroom.

It gets a lot of like, I feel like people were, you're right, trying to spify their bathrooms. Now, all I'm looking at it as is like, it's cold in the UK. People are going to be getting out of that bathtub all wet. They're going to be slipping on marble. There's going to be a lot of broken necks. She doesn't even need to get a bite these guys on the dick. By the way, why on the dick? Why bite him on the dick? Why not? What a, I loved it. I loved that move where she goes down like she's going to start blowing this kid and then chomp. I was like, that is the moment where this movie announces what it is.

Yes. She, I mean, everybody I think understands ultimately what this movie is on some level. But I will say that she is another level. Like every time the camera is off her, I'm like, I'm not interested as much.

I want to see her. The scene that I think is dynamite, just from a visual standpoint. And this is again where I was, like, oh, right, this is not just a crazy movie that we do on the show. This is a very good director is the forced perspective scene when she enters, her ladyship, enters Peter Capaldi's room and finds the snake skull there. Oh, yes. We know that the skull is, I don't know, two or three feet long, you know, that you can hold it in a hand. He's held it in his hand. It's like on a garbage can.

Like, we see it. Yeah, it's like, it's like two or three feet long. It's, it's, you know, it's not huge. But the way they use force perspective is when she enters the room, the snake skull dwarfs her. It's gigantic in the frame. And she is teeny tiny and she's walking up to it. And then she finally holds it and it is the right size. But it's been this, it creates such an uncomfortable feeling and gives such weight and import to the skull. I was like, fuck, this is great. It was great.

And by the way, her costume, she's incredible. She's unbelievable. Incredible. But her costumes in this movie. are so good. When she's sitting on the tree and the branches of the tree and talking to that...

By the way, you know that other actress who played The Virgin, Catherine Oxenberg... It's from Dynasty? Dynasty, but also was featured in that Nixium cult because her daughter was a member, and I think is still one of the women who's outside What's His Face is Jail So...

Oh, wow. In New York, yeah. But anyway, but her cost... costumes were so fantastic. And that's where the movie is, really elevated at points. Like, you just visually, I could not get over what she was wearing. And not just how she looked and how good she looked, but to your point from earlier June, all of her movement was electric to watch because she's so, I mean, snake-like. I don't know how to describe it otherwise.

She truly is using that movement throughout all of her action and all of her activity in a way that is so effective when juxtaposed with a bunch of, you know, English countryside bumpkins. You know, like, like, her, she's like elevated and sexy. Yeah, and she's wearing sunglasses at night and, you know, barely. It's so, she's so graceful in a way. It's great. When the guy played the mouth harp, the young virgin, and she started dancing and she had to, to slap it out of his hand because, I mean, again, I didn't know mouth harps could charm a snake, but be that as it may.

Did you know that bagpipes could? Yeah, I guess you're right. Music soothes the savage beast, right? I mean, but I thought that, like, it was much more of a flute thing. I thought it was a very specific flute kind of. I thought so, too, but it seems like almost any music. Now, when she pulled out her earpluffs. Oh, my God.

I was really hoping, wait, did the mongoose pay off at all? No. He released it in the house. He releases a mongoose in the house, but I didn't see anything then happen. It didn't seem to come back. Okay, that's fine. But I will say that when she pulls out the earplugs, and I know what we're working with here, the fact that she had no paint in her ears really made me laugh. She's completely blue.

Now, then I was like, which made me think, wait, did she paint herself or she become blue? Now, if she painted herself, then that's totally fine. But I couldn't quite tell if the movie is saying she painted herself or she's now blue. That's a perfect example. Paul, because I noticed that too. And that's a perfect example of a moment in a movie that we would do that if the movie is bad, right, unenjoyable, I would be like, we would all, I suspect, be like, oh, and what? You can't even paint the inside of her ears, you know, or, you know, like, or does it create

what you're describing this logic problem? But in this movie, I was like, yeah, who cares? I don't care if she's blue. I don't care. I kind of like it better. I kind of like it better that she painted herself blue because she's just like getting I mean, this is a movie that also the dick image,

yes, there's boobs in this, but there is dick imagery here and that is fallaces. There's not actual, there's not actual dicks. There's like, yes, imagery, yeah. Sorry, like, I mean, it starts. She does look like she's wearing Lady Snake, a giant dildo. Yeah, like a big strap on. A big strap on very pointy. It looks like

it's been like scrimshod. Yeah. But I was like, oh, I thought they were going to go all the way and have our sneak lady fuck. You kind of want that. Yeah, Eve.

Yeah. Eve, that's right, Eve. But they don't because she has to. But like, I didn't know what that moment was like. Was she diddling the other one? Well, the other thing that I couldn't figure out was, I don't, wait, which. When the other one is, when one of the sisters is taking off her clothes and she's stop right there, come forward.

And she's got the deal. Oh, yeah, she's checking if she's a virgin. She's that's where she checks if she's a virgin. That was an upsetting scene. Yeah, okay. All right. I didn't know. she also was like doing that with the with the strap on it was so one hand is oh she's doing it with that

with that implement like she's able to tell listen man because i think she started bleeding i don't know okay i don't know okay she saw something she saw something and she i'm just saying that she felt something in there i trust i trust lady sylvia look that's all i wanted i understood something was going on there i just didn't understand how much like how much we got how much touch sensitivity we got on that thing was interesting though because, like, she does go up to her when she's when Eve is strapped and right before she's supposed to be a sacrifice. And it does look like she's going to penetrate her with that thing. It's the shot that is through the legs of, if it's basically through the thigh gap of Eve, to Lady Sylvia with the strap on right behind her coming right towards her crotch. So I'm like, oh, whoa.

In that moment, I was like, oh, is Lady Sylvia going to fuck her with this implement? and then she becomes the worm? Is Lady Sylvia the, the, like, I didn't, I couldn't figure it out because I was like, oh, if she's doing the fucking, not the, not the, not the, you know, the being to be worshiped, maybe she is the worm. Well, it didn't seem that way because she doesn't do it. No. But then I was like, wow, I guess she's just wearing that strap on for ceremonial purposes.

I guess so, or maybe it comes into play later at a time when we just didn't, when we didn't get back to that. when we didn't get to the rest of the ceremony. Yeah. But yeah, she does put... Honestly, I think it's just Ken Russell is like, this looks great. And it's it. It looks great with you walking around naked, uh, with a giant phallus. Uh, like incredible stuff.

Now, did you like that fallas better than Hugh Grant's sex dream where a marker represents his fallas and when he is watching... That was so funny. One of the funniest moments I've ever seen, which is like he is watching the worm woman kind of make out with other... The sisters on the plane is on. They're fighting, but yeah, they're both flight attendants. And he is getting just.

He's all tied up. He's all tied up, but he's holding a magic marker. And every time it cuts back to him, the marker just starts to elevate more and more like his dick rising. And I was like, I can't believe they keep cutting back to this so many times just to be like, do you get it? And by the way, did it? I also hated the marker because it had too much of a tip. It looked like a dog's penis. I didn't like that.

Yeah, it had a little bit of that, like, that energy of a dog's penis there. What do you think? It seemed to me like that dream somehow explained something to Hugh Grant, that he woke up with some understanding of, like, what he was supposed to do. He's connected. He's connected to his ancestors. I think that that's a big thing. Going into the cave, also, I'm remembering this now, he is serving earthworms with Aspic. And that opening scene where that the party and everyone in that and Peter Capaldi is like all those like worms coming out of his mouth.

I feel like he is the keeper of like his job is to protect this area of Scotland. Something like that. Yes. From his ancestral home. Yes. His whole thing is about worms. Why though, what I couldn't understand is why during the big moment when he is when what's her face is, Eve's about to be. sacrificed when the worm comes out, where is Theo Grant? What is he doing in that other cave?

I couldn't figure that out at all. With the band. I think those were the band members. I did not understand why he wasn't part of it. Not only that, he's at the other entrance with that. He's dropping gas into something or other. And he's looking over at the smoke where the explosion has happened, where the main action is. And he's basically like, huh, what do you think's going on over there? And I was like, what? Why get pulled away from the action? Yeah, why are suddenly sidelined. I couldn't figure that out either. Well, I think what he is doing is, I think he thinks, I'm going to go into this cave, rescue the kidnapped girl, and destroy the monster. Because, I mean, like, something like that. He knows because, he says,

this is just what he says. Yeah. He says, I know because her parents were missing by the Lady Sylvia's house, but his watch was found in this cavern. That means there must be some passage between these two places. So he's dumping toxic chemical into the fissure in the cave hole from his painting and his dream. Yes. And so I think, so I think that he is active, like when it's smoke is coming out of the house, he's like, job well done, we did it. Like, I think he pushed the snake up too early. Didn't that snake get conjured by our lady snake? I think so. No, too early, too early, because the main snake lady, lady, looks like, no, no, no, no, too soon, too soon, too soon, because I think she was supposed to

have sex with her. And then the blood was going to go into the cave to, like, activate the snake. But I think Hugh Grant, another location is pumping gas there, activates the snake too early. Things get messed up. And that, like, so he is, got it. I think that's what's going on. Now, does anyone say this? No.

I don't think so. Or if they do, there's so much going on that it's, it jumped past me. And I'll be honest, again, I'm being very forgiving on this movie. Oh, yeah, I don't care. I enjoyed it. And this is a vibes movie. You know what I mean? Yeah.

This is the kind of movie that is on in the background at a bar you're at that you're like, what the fuck is this movie? Oh, I'm just, looks incredible. I'm into just watching a video cassette of Lady Sylvia, like, kind of giving a blowjob to a real snake. Like, I mean, that's like a weird moment too. I'm like, well, all right, great. Like, that was great.

And who taped? And the mom is just sitting there watching it. And by the way, I didn't know where the dad was. I thought maybe that's our sequel. To me, he was a real loose end. Well, no, we already got the sequel, Snakes in the City, June. Oh, yeah, I guess that's a thing. I would pay, I would pay money.

I would go to the theater and pay good money just to watch a sequel where Lady Sylvia just plays snakes and ladders. Oh, my God, snakes and ladders. By the way, the fact that Hugh does not question the two glasses that are by the fire, fireplace. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And the setup of that game. He has clearly interrupted something going on and is like just immediately like, well, again,

he's so good at being like everything is mine. I belong everywhere. Yeah. He's almost too. Like, it's also, this is a movie about culture, right? This is a movie about like class. Well, it's about class. Like, you know, right.

In that British way, it's about class. Oh, it's a real upstairs downstairs. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, now, by the way, wouldn't it have been great if Downton Abbey actually, had a worm in the, you know, then you'd have upstairs, downstairs, and then downstairs to the downstairs. It would have been awesome if Downton Abbey waited until like season five to reveal that there was like an occult element to its story. You know what I really appreciate about Angus, that he got dressed in his full Scottish bagpipe gear to play. And that he brought

all of that stuff to this Airbnb, to this B&B rather, so he could do his archaeology dig. He was like, you know, should I pack my sweater and my pipes? You never know when you're going to need it. By the way, I think that when you're working hard as an archaeologist, you just want to sit down on the porch at the end of the day, blow into a big old bag, get those, you know, get those out there, you know, just do it. Scott brings up that the mongoose also was in his kilt. Didn't seem like the mongoose was being carried. Yeah, he seemed to have some sort of fanny pack in his kilt that I couldn't quite make sense. I mean, again, these are things that we don't want to question. I will question one thing, though, which is we're building up to this sexy virgin sacrifice,

which we know is like, you know, this is where we're going. And I just feel like the tidy whitties really took me out of the final moment of our... Oh, interesting. Yeah, there were two granny panties for me. I'm like, oh, I like that. You liked it. You guys liked it. I liked it.

I liked that. Sorry she wasn't in a thong, Paul. Yeah, I mean, like... It wouldn't have made sense if Lady Suits. Lady Sylvia was wearing them, but I mean, like that, for... I thought the lady Sylvia big, these are your special sacrifice panties. No, she wanted her to look

virginal. Yeah, she's in her pretty panties. So the white worm is like, oh, I'm white, I like these tidy whiteys, and this is clearly a woman who's never had sex. Like, that's what the white worm is like, thinking on those of got, all right? But we you bring that up, and I just want to, we haven't talked about one of my absolute

favorite scenes in the movie. And again, which gets at that, you would be, it would be understandable if you were watching this movie, as we talked about earlier, and we're like, when is this taking place? But then there is a scene that takes place in a room that only has a tanning bed in it. And I was like, this is incredible. All of the light in this scene is from the tanning bed. It's so the weird, modern element of this tanning bed, juxtaposed with like this ancient woman and this ancient house and all of that. I thought it was great. She needs that tanning. She needs

that tanning because snakes need heat, right? Like, they're cold-blooded, right? So I imagine that she's not in there to get a tan. I don't think. Well, she's not getting tan. She's so pale. Yeah. So she did bring it. We are agreeing that the, there was an interior designer brought into that house to redo the bathroom and add some amenities like the tanning. Like she basically created like a death spa in her house.

For sure. Yeah. I like that. Hey, if you're going to be immortal, at least be comfortable. You have to. I always am saying that. Now, here's my question. I don't want to have to go back to the mythology of it all, but I know there's the great big worm, but what about the head that Angus finds in the beginning? What worm was that? I don't know. And that's such a good question because that worm is very clearly smaller than the worm in the cavern.

The worm in the cavern looks like a whale. Yeah. Yeah, it looks like the size of a whale or something, you know. So a great question. I don't know. Maybe there were baby worms, more baby worms for a time. Maybe like the parents, the mom, given long enough, turns into like a long worm. I don't know.

Well, because I think that this idea that, I mean, I also want to get into that psychology of Hugh Grant because his ancestors supposedly killed this worm. And now he's like, they didn't do it. So what am I? You know, he's like looking at himself too. I feel like. But he's looking at himself. But you know what, Paul, with the energy of like, it's all going to be okay. You know, there's nothing.

He's never worried. He is never stressed out. Never. He's never scared. He's never scared. The lights go out. His butler is murdered. There are snake people in his home and he is like,

I guess I'll go to the police station and tell them what's up. And he also has such a cavalier attitude. When they see those cave paintings of, again, erect penises and naked women running. around. Like it, he, like the way that he even takes in history is so funny. He's like, oh, look, I guess I had sex egg classes back then. No, women's lib is alive and well. It's like, wow, all right. Oh, yeah. He's so just comfortable, nothing, unflappable, nothing surprises him. He's quipping everywhere. Yeah, I mean, they're in the cave. By the way, that cave looks great. I love,

just the visual value of having that real cavern that they go into. Oh, it's absolutely stunning. Cool as hell. And I also could tell that in this movie, they were so cold. Like, there was, there was, like, a moment, like, they're in those jackets. They shot that, the beginning and end at the same exact time, I feel like. But it's like... By the way, that's another thing Hugh does in the cave is he asks for a cup of tea. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Great. You know, and by the way, at the end, when we realized that Angus is, you know, the poison, there was no antidote. I didn't even feel worried about Hugh in that car. Not at all. Not at all. He sees the marks on Angus's leg, and the look on Hugh's face isn't, oh, no, I'm fucked. It's like, guess my job's not done. Yeah, well, like, I...

I mean, maybe this is just the way shit goes down in small towns. I mean, that, you know, that's the other thing, too. Like, maybe we would never hear about it. There's not a lot, like, the police force... What was Edgar's movie that was, like, everybody in town is... Yes. It was the third one of the Coronado trilogy. Yeah.

Anyway, that I feel... That movie, I feel like, is riffing off of this. One of my favorite details in the movie is when Peter wakes up, Hugh, to show him, and he puts the newspaper on his bed. By the way, Hugh does say, draw me a bath. So he is bathing. British people are bathing right when he wakes up in the morning, which is fascinating. But he shows him the cover of the paper. And it's a picture.

it says that the search for these two, the dead parents, or the parents of disappeared, is off. But I left so hard that they all took a picture together, the search party. Just took a photo. Just here they are. The paper sent a photographer to take a picture of the searchers who were not going to go searching. By the way, not in action, not while they're searching. No, because the search has been called off.

Arm and arm, yeah. We need a picture to show that they've called it off. I mean, selfies have been happening. This is, I, I, I, I, but now I guess the end of the movie is Hugh Grant's going to die. The women are going to attack everybody in the city. And the snake has won. Yeah, the thing seems to me to be a little bit like, well, actually, John Carpenter's the thing, which is, you think, oh, they've done it. They've ended this line of snakes.

But, no, Peter Capaldi remains. Infected and alive, and I'm assuming, will be the next iteration of Lady Sylvia. The Trent girls are also infected. Oh, I guess they are, too, because the only Eve. I think only Mary. Well, Mary's blood is, Mary's bite is sucked from... Correct. He sucks the venom out of Mary's bite.

So theoretically she would be okay, but Eve's... Eve was given the serum. The fake one, yeah. So, which turns out to be fake, so I would say... But I don't think that she was ever bitten. No, she is bitten. Because remember, that's why he has to inject her. He injects her, but he says, like, just in case some got on you.

You might be right. Maybe she didn't bite her. She just, like, glimmers her or whatever that is. I don't know. I think that she's got something. Oh, yeah, is it glimmer? Is it glimmer? I know that that's what Stegas does, Glimmer man. Anyway. Yeah, like, yeah, like, it's kind of like a hypnotist. Yeah, but he's hypnotizes Eve.

I think that she's like, take your clothes off and blah, blah, blah, and does all that. But I don't remember her biting, Eve. I'm not sure, though. Well, okay, I did look online, and not that this is the end-all-be-all. You can get a direct bite or evil influence and or venom can all work together with the white worm. So it could be the glimmering or the glaming. It's tough because you're like, you're like, oh, I guess maybe I'm wanting more rules, but I also think rules would have hampered the fun of the movie

if they had to kept stopping down to be like, well, no, wait a minute, I guess that means if you get bitten or if you get hypnotized, then you're under, you know, you start to pull at it. This crew has no desire to get to the bottom of it more than we must kill the thing. And honestly, like, what kind of rules does Jason have at the end of the day?

Like Jason Voorhees or what, yeah, there are a couple rules, but all of a sudden he can walk underwater, he could do this, he could do that. At a certain point, we're just like, fuck the rules. Like, we got to kill the thing. If you're enjoying it, which I think we all were, then I'm not going to falter or, you know, get hung up on, well, wait a minute. That's not quite the same as what happened earlier or whatever. I don't care. I want to play you guys a clip because I think this is worthwhile just to hear it as we've kind of talked a lot through it. This is Hugh Grant on Mark Maren talking about the layer of the white worm.

Oh, lock the gates. Where does he The layer of the white worm fall in? I'm very fond of that film. Have you seen it? Yeah, of course. It's a fucking trip. Yeah, well, people who take a lot of drugs do love it.

Well, Ken Russell's a wild man. How about it must have been great? He was. He was a wild man and he was, I mean, he was very talented, but by that stage he was also very fond of a good lunch, let's just say. Yeah. It was already a fairly wild film in the mornings. Yeah.

By the time he'd had a lunch with two bottles of wine, It was really a different story. And, you know, his style of directing became ever more eccentric. So he would say, I remember there's a scene in that film where I have to pick up a big sword. Yeah. And cut a lady snake monster in art. Right. It didn't feel quite right.

And I said, this shot doesn't feel quite comfortable to me. And his immortal words to me were, well, fuck. fucking feels. Do it how I fucking showed you, you cunt. And that is not out of the classic directorial handbook. All right, great, we can stop that there.

I get that note so often on Percy Jackson. But you know what I love? I actually noticed in that scene after after, and I wonder if he did it because Hugh complained, but after he takes the sword

and cuts her in half, the camera stays on him and he falls back from the momentum into a bunch of other stuff. Into a drum set. Excuse me, you're right. Into a drum set, a red drum set. A red sparkle drum set. And I was like, oh my God. Another director would not have left that in.

They would just have had the motion of the cut and made him a hero in that moment. Well, it's such a great story because it really highlights something that I feel like now is just absolutely evident, which is like even the actors. were confused by what they were being asked to do. But Ken Russell did not care. He was like, no, just do this. Trust me. By the way, more props to Amanda Donahue, because her performance is crystal clear. Oh, yeah.

You know, and so self-possessed that I am like, wow, even more props. Can I tell you what she said? She has two good quotes here, which I really like. She said that she picked the role because it gave her the opportunity to play a woman, who is basically a fantasy woman. There are no boundaries. Therefore, I could do exactly as I chose with that lady.

I did not want her to be some sort of vampire bimbo. I want her to be an incredible, sophisticated, and ageless woman. Now, I love films that have a real rumpf to them and say something about life,

and I'd just been on the string of films in the last two years, all pretty heavy stuff. And I thought, why not just do a film that doesn't mean anything at all? And I do think that, but that's the energy.

that she's like, she is 110% like in this choice. It doesn't feel like she's embarrassed there. And that's why I think that she honestly feels the most confident. Even though there's other people in this movie that are doing so, like, I feel like she is unshakable. Her performance grounds, I mean, what an insane thing to say, grounds this insane movie. How confidently she is depicting this very, very. crazy, strange, interesting snake woman character

is so fascinating and engaging to watch and so actualized that it is hypnotic like the snake is, you know? And without her performance at the center, I think the movie would really fall apart. You know, it would feel weighted too much in the English countryside folk world. It feels like in a weird way

by committing so big, like it's an interesting, choice to make. By being that big, she makes the movie better. Like, if you just give a seven, it might just be a weaker movie. Like, she had to give a 10. I will say this other thing, I don't know if either of you heard it, but she does say when she throws the snakes and ladders into the fireplace, Rosebud. Rosebud. Loved it. So funny. I mean, she's got jokes. She's got jokes. She's got jokes. She's got jokes. She's got jokes for the hitchhiker, Virgin. She's got jokes. She's got jokes. She's got jokes for the hitchhiker virgin boy.

She's got jokes for Ernie. Yeah, I mean, she is, it is a performance that is incredible. And it also reminded me of, did you guys, do you guys know who Ann Magnuson is? She's an actor and avant-garde, like musician and artist from this era who has a similar look that you would recognize. She's American, though. And for a brief moment when she appeared on screen, I said, oh, whoa, is that Ann Magnuson? And it wasn't.

But I was like, oh, it's giving me that kind of. kind of a vibe. Anyway, I will say this, you know, there are, I'm not going to sit here and read a bunch of Amazon reviews because I think a lot of people are in on the joke, but there is one person who had a different opinion than us. It is now time for second opinions. And say, tell me what is the message? Heart is subjective.

I only pulled one because, you know, this is, we get into this territory when you have a movie like this, where everyone's. doing their bits and jokes. But P.F. Darlington wrote this in 2005. And the title is, you yanks can't do this stuff. Mind, I could get it on DVD or VHS back in so-called enlightened Europe. But I had to go to America to buy it and then chip my machine in order to even play it. Thankfully, the UK is not really Europe or will ever be. It's an especially pagan island archipelago. And that's what gives us this advantage when it comes to making films like this. Wickerman, etc. It seems that you fellows

value the diversity of UK and Europe better than we do. Ken Russell in general, and this movie in particular explores the viewer's cranium for hangups. If you have any, he will find them. And he does find them. It's not your problem. It's his. All the actors are brilliant in this movie. The essential ingredient is Amanda Donahoe. And this, she is delicious. It might well be that she inspired the movie. She really may be the reincarnated snake god's priestess. She does it so well. And you never know on those pagan islands what strange forces well up.

Ken has successfully managed to hijack a couple of UK national icons into this bargain, namely Concord and E-type jag. That's quite a feat for a budget movie. I might summarize by hijacking one of your phrases I heard over here. Ken gives you a great bang for your buck. So enjoy this movie with great big Google Eyes. Five stars. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Why not? Yeah, I guess. I guess it's sort of saying like, this is true. This is true.

And Ken is here to challenge you as well as entertaining. I'm looking at her IMDB, which, you know, we don't have to trust completely always. But they work together again a couple of years later, 1989, The Rainbow. another Ken Russell like erotic kind of thriller 1900's England looks like I love this Jason Jude do you recommend this movie

Yeah yeah I mean right it's great It's fun to watch I think the later you put it on I think especially now in spooky season This is a fun one you can get everybody around To enjoy this one This is vibes This is what a blast And by the way go into your Halloween costume bag

Put together one of these characters This would be a great team costume Oh my God absolutely You want a good couple's costume? Somebody wear a military offers his uniform and somebody a big white worm. Somebody bring out a mouth harp and play that virgin and someone play Lady Sylvia or play the cops. There's so many things you can do here. Bring out your snakes and ladders game.

A good couple's costume is the two big red speakers on the roof. I do want to make a shirt for this show. Snakes in the city with the, it's just the snakes and the pose of the sex and the city characters. I think it would be pretty great. Snakes in the city presented by Ken Russell. If we can get that going, you can definitely find that on our website. If you want to add any corrections on omissions here, you can leave us a voicemail by going to speakpipe.com or write to us on our Discord at discord.g.g slash HDTGM.

Now, I let you guys know that June and I are doing a brand new show for Prime, not Amazon Prime, but for Prime video. And we're taping those shows in Burbank on October 2nd, 7th, 10th, 16th, 21st, and 24th. each show completely different, improvised, based off of audience suggestions. If you want to come, you can just hit the email right on our webpage or dinks RSVP at Gmail. Just tell them what days you want to come and they will hook you up. We also made an official how to get made mini league in this year's Voltre movies, fantasy league. To join our mini league, it's like fantasy football, but for movies, just go to vulture.com slash HDTGM and just click on the link in the episode. No, if that's too hard for you.

Jason, June, anything you want to mention? No, not really. All right. Yeah. All right, well, listen. If you listen to us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please make sure you are subscribed to our feed and have automatic downloads turned on in the show settings. It helps us, and we appreciate it a lot.

You can follow us on Instagram. See some clips from our live shows at HDTGM and a whole lot more great content. Lastly, I have to give a huge thanks to our behind-the-scenes team. I'm talking about our producer, Scott Sani, Molly Reynolds, our engineer, Casey Holford, and our social media manager, Zoe Applebaum, and we will forever be grateful to the one and only

April Hallie. That's all I got people. We'll see you next week on Last Looks. Bye for now.