How Did This Get Made? - The Number 23 (HDTGM Matinee)

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

This week's Matinee, Paul, June, and Jason break down the 2007 Jim Carrey thriller The Number 23. They discuss all the bonkers names—from Topsy Kretts to Fingerling to Sirius Leary—the protagonist who hates dogs, Walter Sparrow’s sanity, Bud Court’s crazy room, the son’s childish mug gift, Danny Huston’s villainous vibe, and Chekhov’s Saxophone. Plus, they ask “At the beginning is Jim Carrey basically playing Ace Ventura?” And Paul reveals his theory that maybe Walter Sparrow’s dog bite gave him rabies. Is Paul right? Crack the code. (Originally released 2/23/23, coincidence?) HDTGM Spring Tour 2025 tickets are now on sale for Austin, Denver, Seattle, Boise, San Fran, Portland, & LA at hdtgm.com.Order Paul’s book about his childhood: Joyful Recollections of TraumaCheck out new HDTGM movie merch over at teepublic.com/stores/hdtgmJoin the HDTGM conversation on Discord: discord.gg/hdtgmPaul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheerVisit Paul’s YouTube page: youtube.com/paulscheerFollow Paul’s movie recs on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheer/Friend Zone w/ Paul and Rob Huebel live on Twitch every Thursday 5pmPT / 8pmET: www.twitch.tv/friendzoneLike good movies too? Listen to Unspooled with Paul and Amy Nicholson: https://www.unspooledpodcast.com/Listen to The Deep Dive with Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael: www.thedeepdiveacademy.com/podcastWhere to find Paul, June, & Jason:@PaulScheer on Instagram & Twitter@Junediane on IG and @MsJuneDiane on TwitterJason is not on social media Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using the link: siriusxm.com/hdtgm.

This podcast is dropping on February 23rd 2023 that's to 23 23 to 23's June Diane Raphael shear is 23 digits if you include the hyphen and her husband's last name her birthday is 0 1 0 4 1980 which adds up to 23 Jeffrey character readies adds up to 24 But if you misspell it as Jeffrey with 1f character readies adds up to 24, but if you misspell it as Jeffrey with one F character readies, it is 23. This podcast is hosted by tall John Shear. And

if you assign the corresponding number in the alphabet to his name, you get 21, 12, 12, 10, 15, 8, 14, 19, 3, 8, 5, 5, 18. If you add those all up, you get 69, which if you divide by the number of names, tall, John, sheer, three, you get 23. But did you see the 69? We saw the number 23, so you know what that means. Now it's time for

How to Discrepate. Gonna have a good time, celebrate some failure, So you know what that means. Now it's time for How Did This Get Paid? We're gonna have a good time, celebrate some failure, not just be the hater, cause you know you wonder how did this get paid? Let's law in the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question, how did this get paid? Hello, people of Earth, conspiracy theorists, unite. Today we are talking about a classic Jim Carrey thriller, The Number 23, came out in 2007. And if you've not seen this film,

the plot is going to be a little bit tricky to break down, but I'm gonna try two weeks in a row. But basically, we are following Walter Sparrow, played by Jim Carrey, who works as a dog catcher, who comes to find a book titled the number- I forgot that. Oh yeah, did you forget this movie starts with him being Ace Ventura and talking to animals?

I forgot that. So this dog catcher comes to find a book called the number 23, which sends him down the rabbit hole of the 23 enigma, which is a real conspiracy theory. I'm going to play a quick clip to show you exactly how that comes into play. The Titanic sank on the morning of April 15, 1912. That's 4151912.

23. The Hiroshima bomb was dropped at 815. 8 plus 15 is 23. The Mayans said the end of the world would come in 2012. 20 plus one plus two equals 23. Go ahead. Tell yourself it's just a number. And then a larger mystery unravels.

Did Jim Carrey's character actually write the book? How much does his wife know? Is there a larger conspiracy? The answer is yes, as long as you don't think about any of the answers. To break this all down, I am bringing in my two and three co-hosts, my 23 co-hosts. What? Jason Manzoukas and June Diane Raphael. Wow. Wow.

Wow, wow, wow. We're like, this is like the X-Files. We're like, we're solving cases. This is a mystery. The crazy thing is like listening to you say that though, Paul, you, listening to you say that though, Paul, you... Listening to your intro, like, your math that you did was way more complicated than the math that is done

over and over throughout the course of this movie. It's literally the most of the dialogue is simple math of just like, one plus two equals three, and three plus two is five, and five minus two is three and thirty two is twenty three. And also like and your last name is is is is sheer and that that name is fourteen and fourteen plus nine. You know every they're assigning numerical value to colors, names, words, all this. Pink is 23. Red is a little less than because it's white. And so then now red is pink and pink is 23.

And 32 is also 23. Like 14. But if you add the one and the four, you get five. But then if you take the five and you look at five, five is two and three together. 23. Okay. I truly felt insane after this was over. But if then if you take the five and you look at five five, it's two and three together 23 Truly felt insane after this was over I will say I felt mad you said something in the intro paul that blew my mind that there is There is this is based on real conspiracy theories around the number 23 Yes, this is a real thing. And by the way, this is such a real thing that jim carrey

Named his production company jc23 because he is obsessed with the number 23. Why did you decide to do this project? Well I was kind of obsessed with the number 23 for years. Yeah, I had a friend who passed it on to me like a virus and it just entered my life big time. It's everywhere. Even though I was born at 2.30 in the morning, my daughter's born at 12, 11,

and we just kept going on and on and on in my life. So I changed the name of my company to JC23 because somebody came up with a book that was about the 23rd song. And he said, does this have anything to do with the 23 thing, man? Okay, now we're getting- This is all starting to click into place.

Yeah. Now I'm starting to understand. I mean, so this is it. Like, this is Jim Carrey's big thing. JC23 Entertainment is his production company, and they're... yeah. Holy shit. Now, JC... Okay, because as I was watching this,

I was like, yeah, is that Jesus Christ? I was just gonna say that's also Jesus Christ? I was just kidding. That's also Jesus Christ. Which two times three is six. Twenty-three plus ten disciples is thirty-three, which is the age Jesus Christ was when he died. I mean, and this is where, I mean, this is, by the way, this thing, it can go on so long. William S. Burroughs was the first person to really believe in 23 as the enigma.

Oh, a totally normal man. Yes. A totally normal man. The author of Naked Lunch. And then all of a sudden you start to see it in all these different things. I'll just read you a couple more because I know we've given you a million examples, but Norman human sex cells have 23 chromosomes, other human cells have 46, arrange in 23 pairs, the Earth's axis is tilted at 23 degrees, musical acts with connections to number 23 tool, Blink 182,

like they're all these like 23 is an album. Yeah. I mean, this is like, at least what I don't understand is you can make so many numbers work if you do enough kind of, if you're backing into 23, I mean, couldn't we do that with any number?

Well, yeah, I mean, honestly, I feel like, here's what I'll say, as absurd as it is, and I agree with you, June, as crazy making as it sounds, what year, Paul, did you say this came out, 2007? 2007. So in 2007, this must have felt like this is preposterous. I roll city, right? We live in a culture and a society now

where the conspiracy theories that a huge amount of the population, like, participate in and believe in, are so much more ridiculous than this. This makes... This movie makes more sense than, like, QAnon nonsense. I actually thought, like, was this the beginning of Q? Oh, my God. Is Jim Carrey Q? (*LAUGHTER*) Well, I'm gonna tell you, there's a lot of people who love this movie,

and I gotta tell you that- There are? Oh, yes, because they are conspiracy theory nuts. And by the way, if you listen to this show, we're right behind you. We support you 100%. But- And are you willing to commit,

are we just doing numerology? Is this numerology February? I mean, we have to be. Next week, are we doing the lucky number Slevin? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Are we doing next week, are we doing the lucky number Slevin? I just have to say that this is a perfect example of these types of movies where somebody just has enough power to get their own weird idea out. And it's like, if I can just get this to the masses, like, because this really does feel like-

Well, that's the thing, Paul. Here's my genuine question. Yeah. Because at the end of the movie, I felt insane. I was like, put me in an institution, please. But I am genuinely asking, at the end of the movie, is the story that Jim Carrey is insane or that the number 23 is actually coming for him? It's been... It chased his father.

Both. And then it... So it's coming for him and so it made him crazy. But I guess that's what I'm saying, is that the movie sort of affirms that 23 is a killer number and the devil's number. Yes. Much like Jim Carrey, Walter Swallow,

was infected by- Swallow, sparrow. Sparrow, sparrow, sorry, sorry. They're both birds, sorry, sorry. A sparrow. And that's not to be confused with his detective name. The great- Oh, Jesus.

Or his wife. Fingerling. Fingerling. Fingerling. Like the potato. I couldling. Like the potato. I could not get past the potato. Or his pseudonym. Oh, his pseudonym is, this is the best one.

The pseudonym is my favorite part because when you say it out loud, it gets really good. Top Secretz. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. the book that Jim Carrey, the dog catcher finds. Now, here's what I'll say. When this movie first started, this is in this era of sad Jim Carrey, like depressed Jim Carrey, like a little bit after Eternal Sunshine. He's got the long hair. And he looks to me like he's a FedEx guy, right? Yes, he's got this long hair, and he's got it styled

in a way that is like from guys in 2007, which is flat down on his head, kind of matted down, even though like he looks like, okay, anyway, it doesn't matter. When they give him flashbacks in the movie, the young actor playing young Jim Carrey, some 20 some odd years in the past, has the exact same haircut.

Yeah. Well, that's right. I was like, why did they give the kid that's in the late 60s a 2007 haircut? I have a feeling that that was a miscommunication for the director, Joel Schumacher, to the hair and makeup team. It's like, yeah, yeah, he's young Jim Carrey.

I mean, it was in his common. I'm worried they're not going to know this is a flashback and it's young Jim Carrey. I mean, it was, it is common. I'm worried they're not going to know this is a flashback and it's young Jim Carrey. Make him look exactly the same. Well, at that point, we're not even supposed to think he's young Jim Carrey. We're supposed to think this is a young Topsy Krets. Oh, that's right. It's young Topsy Krets.

That's right, because there's flashbacks inside of the fantasy sequences. This movie is like layers on layers on layers of nothing, frankly. The movie makes, the movie is like layers on layers on layers of nothing, frankly. The movie makes, the movie is a zero. Like it adds up to, like in numerology senses or numerical senses, the whole movie is times zero, so it ends up zero.

Well, I will say this. When you meet him, Jim Carrey, I was like, what is this movie gonna be about? It's gonna be about like a sad man who finds something in this number 23. But then this reveal of him like in a truck looking miserable, depressed, and then it's like a comical decal on the side

that's like, you know, he's a animal, you know, dog, he's a dog catcher, essentially dog catcher. He's like, he hates animals. I don't know how they ever expected us to get on board with a character that hates dogs. Like hates dogs and calls them evil, dead dogs and wants to catch them and- The first-

The first moment- In the first minutes, I was like how I want- I was so angry at this character and I was so appalled at the treatment of these animals. It was so strange. I'm like, and looking back on the movie, to be quite honest, Ned, the dog, I don't know why, why was Ned there? Why did he have to hate dogs?

That cute little dog, he almost ran him over. Well, the dog essentially brought him into his first experience of death, right? I mean, the movie is like, the movie, I feel like, can't decide if it's supernatural or not. Right. If there's actual, because, you know, like, there's this element of like, oh, is the dog kind of, um, provoking him into this journey of self-discovery and remembering and uncovering his, his memories and stuff.

Cause the dog bites him, he chases the dog and the dog goes right to the gravestone of the woman that he killed. Right. And then also later on, we see the dog with this man, this very intimidating man. Oh yeah. Is, who, yeah. Who's that? Is that revealing? Who is that?

Revealed in the very last seconds. I think that that might have been the devil. If it's, if, if, okay, here's my theory. The larger theory. I think it's like the number 23 is the killer in this movie and it will always find you. It will make you appear to be insane, but you're basically just carrying out

the will of the number 23. And the number 23 is the devil's number. So the devil has a dog who then helps people get back to that. I don't know. That's part of what I would put together in here, like based on the things I know. If the devil had an animal, there's no way it would be a dog. Well, I mean, the, the, there's, there's, the three headed dog that guards the gates of hell. So there's that dog, but three headed dog that guards the gates of hell. So there's that dog, but that's not what we're talking about here.

There is, the other thing I couldn't figure out is that scene at the end of the movie where we see the dog, Ned, we see this dark shadowy figure and they're at the gravestone at the funeral, the funeral for Laura, the woman that Jim Carrey killed, but they're having a funeral 15 years later? Well, because they never found true remains.

Oh! So now where? That's right. That's what it is. Now they did. Now I would really love to get into why Robin took her skeleton and put it somewhere. I think to protect Jim Carrey. Oh, wait.

Scott is saying her name is Agatha. Yeah, Agatha is her name. Robin is the son. Oh, wait, Scott is saying her name is Agatha. Yeah, Agatha is her name. Robin is the son. Robin is Agatha. No, no, you're right. But Agatha wouldn't have known Jim Carrey to move the body. Well, no, because she found, wait, no. Agatha found everything at that place.

And she's read the book. The Institute, Nathaniel Institute. Oh, right, because Bud Court. She figures out that he's she's read the book. The Institute, Nathaniel Institute. Oh, right, because Bud Court. So she figures out that he's the author of the book. Right, okay. Yes, when Bud Court is, when she finds Bud Court's crazy room. Okay, wait, let me just go back.

Let me just go back. Let me just go back for a little bit. Just because if you're listening to this, it sounds like pure. I would like the t-shirt to be Bud Court's crazy room. I would love, I mean, let's make it. It's just just a red, huge, scrawl-filled nightmare scape. Okay, but here's my question, Paul, and I'm sorry, I'm really sorry to interrupt,

but my question about, like, 23 and the devil. So, Agatha already wanted to paint her broom red. Can we just... Let me just set up... Sorry, yes, yes, yes, yes. Hold on. Sorry, sorry. Let me just set up one let me just... Sorry, yes, yes, yes, yes. Hold on, sorry, sorry. Let me just set up one little bit of here because I think this will help us. Uh, and June immediately turns off her camera.

I'll say this. We meet Jim Carrey, he seems like a... Oh, Jason just turned up. No, guys, I just have to explain one part of the plot. Uh, we meet Jim Carrey, he seems like he is a depressed loner, doesn't fit in, and then you reveal he is happily married to a beautiful woman

and has a son and seemingly a pretty functional family life. Right, so that- Not just functional, I would say happy. Yes, so we have Virginia Madsen, who's Agatha, and we have Logan Lerman, who is Robin, that's a son. I just wanted to set that up. So this weird character that we meet who hates dogs, who's xenophobic, is actually a very well adjusted,

like normal guy living a normal life. And all right, so now I just wanna label who these characters are, because it's gonna get hard to. I'm sorry, you're so right. Also, because many of them, like, there are a couple of characters, like Jim Carrey plays both Walter, right, and he plays Fingerling in the fantasy sequences, as does Virginia Madsen plays Agatha, but she also plays...

Fabrizia. Fabrizia in the... She also plays Fabrizia in the... Fabrizia. So the reason why this number 23 book comes into Jim Carrey's hands is because he is late to his own birthday dinner with his wife because this monster of a dispatcher from the dog impound makes him work a little bit later one night because... Because he turned down her advances.

In the best dialogue of all time. Oh, my God. She's basically like, why don't you take it out and wag your tail at me? And he goes, I wouldn't wag my tail in the bitch's room with you if you were the last bitch on earth, because it's a celebration party. It's his birthday party and it's, but it's a dog themed birthday party. So his cake is a dog.

So it's all the dog. It looks like the ladies room has been covered over with the word bitch. Right. So it does say the bathroom does say bitch's room. It's also so convoluted. It's like, why would, it's like having a birthday party for a lawyer and everything being law themed. Like this is the Jerry box.

I had so many questions about, first of all, where does this movie take place? I don't know, Philadelphia. Okay, in whatever, okay, so now I know for a fact that in some places, the animal controller is an elected position in some small towns and stuff. You actually have to run for office. I do not think Jim Carrey had to run for this. Okay, but my question is how many people could possibly be working in this department that they could...

It's enormous. It's enormous. Not only that, but there seems to be, in whatever small town city this is, there seems to be a behavioral psychologist just for the animal controller. So that if they run into any traumatic experiences on the job, they can go talk to this person. They've basically taken all of the elements of a traditional police story. The bar that services the detectives,

the mental health professional who helps out the police who've had traumatic experiences and clears them for duty so that they can return to the force after a shooting or an event or whatever. All of those tropes from a police procedural story have been ported onto an animal control officer who let a dog get away on his birthday. And was bitten by a dog. Yes. I want to underline it one more time, too.

It is a crazy way to meet a lead character. It's Jim Carrey. He first barks at another dog. He's an animal, you know, control it. Was that a bark, Paul? That first sound he made, I was like, I don't know what that is. He was taunting a dog. Do first sound he made, I was like, I don't know what that is.

He was taunting a dog. Do you think that this, all of this, he hates dogs, he's taunting the dog, he's talking to the dogs. Is this just a bit or a trying to reframe or change the narrative from Ace Ventura, I talk to dogs, I'm a goofball, that this is like, is this a wink or is this trying to?

I thought about that. Because it's, the movie starts and I was like, this feels like obviously referencing Ace Ventura, like I'm not always nice to animals. Right, I hate animals. In fact, I can also hate animals. Yep. I have range. I mean, at this point, Ace Ventura came out in 1994.

This is 2007. I think it's pretty far away from, you know. How close to the Schumacher Batman that Jim Carrey was in? Is this another Schumacher Jim Carrey? Were they on set for Batman? And Jim Carrey was like, listen, I got the. Batman and Robin is 1997, guys. This is 10 years later.

Yeah, guys, I think that all this is is Jim Carrey's fascination with the number 23. I mean, just to put it in context, this is of the era... And that's timeless. ...where he's kind of already had his ups and downs. And this is like just a weird sidestep because this is coming out in 2007.

And he's already been Lemony Snicket. He already did Eternal Sunshine. He did Bruce Almighty, right? So he did Fun with Dick and Jane and then the number 23. And the next movie he made was Yes Man. So it's like, this is an odd, like, it's not, you know, it's post-majestic. It's, you know, it's a weird moment of his time.

It's not in his heyday, but it's in this period where he's trying to do a bunch of different stuff. Yeah. Interesting, and trying to reinvent himself. There's a, it's so interesting because I feel like one of the things we haven't mentioned is in the fantasy sequence of this, because part of me feels like this is what...

an element that Jim Carrey may have been drawn to, is that he gets to play the affable everyman who's kind of spiraling out of control. But in the fantasy sequences, the fantasy is all a noir detective story, like an incredibly washed out, stylized, femme fatale-filled noir story. And I feel like...

Where he plays a saxophone. Replays, I was gonna say, and has bad tattoos. I mean, he plays a saxophone shirtless. It's like that character from The Lost Boys. But here's what I'm saying. And I'm sorry to keep on. But how can you be an every man if you hate dogs? Well, I want to bring it back to he doesn't only hate dogs.

He's also kind of a racist because when he does confront that dog, he presents this like he is doing a monologue to this dog about how this dog is gonna be eaten if this dog was in China. He's like, and I guess also working for like, it's like, I just point that out for a couple of reasons, because it's our lead character and he is going to go into a descent of madness,

but you start off going, this guy is fucking sucks. Like he is- And absolutely, Paul. And I would add that this is not a vicious dog. No. Not at all. And I would also add. It's a beautiful, pitbull mix of some kind

who seemed like pretty docile. Yeah. Oh, and I would also add, what does he have to be such a dick about? Like what's he so up to? That's what dick about? Like, what's he so upset about? What's he so upset about? A wonderful home with a supporting, loving family. I mean, maybe he's haunted by the traumas of his past

and just doesn't know it and is waiting for a handmade book to be found and trigger his memories. Can I ask something though? Why not have him find the book? Well, this is, okay, this is my question. Why, okay, Agatha said that she has read the book, but she's in the bookstore holding the book. So did she already read it before she went to the bookstore?

Did she try to open him up? Cause here's the thing, and we have to spoil this at one point, cause I think we have to unpack it. We find out much, much later in the movie that Jim Carrey has been in a mental institution, has one of the best exits of that. Like after they, he basically like,

basically he's in a mental institution, he has amnesia, which makes him forget that he killed somebody. And as he's leaving the mental institution, the doc's like, well, I hope I don't see you anymore. And he's like, oh, I'm not gonna come back. Like they have a joking dispatch from the mental institution. And then immediately as he walks out the door,

he has a meet-cute with Virginia Madsen, where he like, bumps into her and she drops a cake. And then they get together. So this entire movie, she knows he knows nothing about his life before 23 years old. But why doesn't he know that? Why isn't he able? He doesn't seem to, you know, he doesn't remember whether it's amnesia

or they say, because he tries to commit suicide and jumps out a window and so they're not sure if it's trauma from the fall or if it's some sort of amnesia or if it's just whatever, but he doesn't seem to remember any of his past life. So, but mustn't his family understand? It does, the movie wants to have it every way, right? He wants, they want him to be totally normal. And then through the process of finding and reading this book and cause that's what we haven't

really said definitively. The book that he... It's about the book. The book that he had, the whole movie is about him becoming obsessed with this book and thinking that this book and this author is writing about him only to find at the end of the movie, obviously, that Jim Carrey, his character, wrote the book prior to going insane. Prior to amnesia, rather. The best part is that we find that out

because Virginia Madsen rips off a piece of paper that had been like glued to the title page of the manuscript where it said, buy and then it said Top Secret. What's the name again, Paul? Top Secret? Top Secret, yeah. That's, I can, Paul? Top Secrets? Top Secrets, yeah. I can't deal with that.

But who did that? Did Bud Court do that? That's what I don't know. Who put that on? Who made the red book? Cause here's the thing, by the end of the movie, there's two copies of the book. One, we've spent the whole movie with,

which is the red covered book. The red cover, which matches the red walls, which matches the red light bulb in Bud Court's chaos room. Like, and then there's the copy that is the manuscript, which is the loose pages that Jim Carrey types up and hand writes and glues stuff to. The last chapter's on a wall. And then the last chapter's on the wall in the hotel.

But who made the red book? Bud Court? I don't know. I do not. So basically, this man went insane and wrote this book. Topsy Kretz. No, no, Topsy Kretz's fingerling.

Or no, basically, no. But he wrote the book. Jim Carrey wrote the book. So Jim Carrey wrote this book as an insane person. And then he's like witness be great if I just self published this book Under some it's a wild ride. I don't know why he wanted to get that way. Do you think he public? I don't think he published it. I said to the he said it to the thing He said it to the public. I thought that I thought that bud court Published the book. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So, yes.

Okay, that makes us two. As the doctor. I thought you were saying Jim Carrey did. I misunderstood. So basically, they take advantage of this guy. By the way, my stepfather used to bring home beautiful watercolors painted by schizophrenic patients of his, they're really gorgeous.

And June told me I couldn't put them in the house because they're too scary. Uh, but... One was very frightening. Ha ha ha! Not in my house. Had nothing to do with this, you know, having schizophrenia or not.

It was just a frightening image. Of course. No, no. But so they basically like, he's like, ooh, this isn't... It's like, but of course, like, ooh, this is interesting. Let me just like make money on this person who is not well, publishes the book, but then pops on Topsy Secrets.

And then that, but then he gets obsessed about the number 23 in the publishing or reading of it. So the book is like a virus. But this is what I don't understand. But then Agatha read it. She didn't go insane. Yeah, she seems fine. Robin is read it. She didn't go insane. She seems fine.

Robin is reading it. He doesn't go insane. But when did Agatha read it? Because she keeps on going, oh, no, you're being crazy. You're being crazy. First of all, the family is so OK with him writing on the walls. They're way relaxed with him going crazy.

But like, when did she read it? And because it seems like she's holding the book to set him up to open it, but... It did seem that way. But then she's like, no, yeah. I felt like, I will say this. For a Slim, it's a novella. Let's be clear. It's 22 chapters. It's a shorty.

I mean, by the way, I will also say it's a graphic novel at points, and there's pictures in there, there's writing. There's collage. It's a mixed media piece. But he really, inexplicably, for reasons I'll never understand, the movie continuously gives us the dates. Like it'll be like February 5th.

And so what you, I mean, and I don't know why, the time, there is no ticking clock, there is no timeline, there is no reason to be jumping back and forth in time and trying to help us by understanding what day it is. But what it does let us know is it's taking Jim Carrey weeks to read a very small book. So my assumption is his wife read it just in an appropriate

amount of time, which is for a book that size, probably three hours. Yeah. I think that's a good point. I thought for sure we were gonna land, everything was gonna culminate to a date that added up to 23. Oh, yeah, sure.

Okay, well... It was his birthday's on February 3rd, we know that. No, no, let me also just say this. But it didn't. I mean, this movie also feels like, while it's really leaning into all this conspiracy, it also feels like, is it a parody of it? Because- I thought that too, at points.

When he starts reading this book, it's as if Jim Carrey is reading it like this. Like, he's doing a bit. Like, listen to Jim Carrey's voiceover of him reading the book. Chapter one, you can call me Fingerling. It's not my real name. voiceover of him very first book. Funny. I can't recall what it was about. The only thing I remember is the name. Fingerling.

It was so weird. Like, when he says, call me Fingerling, I'm like, all right. It's a bad book. It's also bad. Yes. I'm like, this is not a book. This book is also like, I'm like, this is not compelling. I'm not sitting up.

Kind of, yeah. Well, then when you realize it was written in a post-murder also like, I'm like, this is not compelling. I'm not, I'm not sitting up. Yeah. Well, then when you realize it was written in a post-murder frenzy, you're like, okay. But that's my question about Agatha, because I believe that Agatha... had maybe... Agatha's clearly already been, like, seduced by the devil. That's why she wants to paint those walls red. OK, so she's already been turned.

Yes. So I think she had probably either already read the book before she saw it in the gift shop. Oh, so maybe it's Danny Houston, the devil, that other doctor? You know, I would believe that only because Danny Houston is always the bad guy. Yeah. So when Danny Houston was even in the,

when I saw Danny Houston's name in the credits, I was like, well, that's who did it. And then he turns out to be seemingly benevolent. He seems to be an ally to Agatha and Robin in trying to help corral the more and more erratic Jim Carrey, correct or no? Or is he just trying to manipulate him? I don't know. To what end?

I thought it was gonna be revealed at the end that Danny Houston had done the crimes, but was making Jim Carrey crazy to the point that Jim Carrey was going to be convicted of the murder. That it would seem as though Jim Carrey crazy to the point that Jim Carrey was going to be convicted of the murder. That it would seem as though Jim Carrey would incriminate or like when Jim Carrey dug up the body, I thought, oh, this is it. They're going to make it so that he gets arrested for this only to find out he did in fact do it.

You know? Interesting. I don't know. Because at the end of the day, Danny Houston, not a bad guy. Not a bad guy. And I will say the bad guy is Jim Carrey. And what I didn't understand is the very end, and I'm jumping ahead listeners, but at the very end, Jim Carrey says that because he's turned himself in, obviously the guy who was

framed for the murder of Laura, which we haven't even got into the original murder, but whoever that college girlfriend of his was that he murdered. Because she touched Danny Houston's, or no, she touched that other guy's finger. Well, no, she did have sex with him in the woods. Oh, yeah, that looks so uncomfortable. Very uncomfortable. But she was touching his fingerlings in the classroom. That's why they call him Detective Fingerlings. He's always looking now for fingers touching other fingers.

I cannot get over the fact that he named the character Detective Fingerling in his hard-boiled, you know, Philip Marlowe-esque character is Detective Fingerling. But here's my question. At the very end, he says, when he's talking to his son, Robin, that he's going to be in jail for a while, justice has been served, and, you know,

he's going to be serving his time until he gets parole. Why would this man ever get paroled? Because I feel like he said the judge took kindness on him because he came for, basically the judge was like, you didn't have to do this, so I'll go easy on you. Like, hey, hey, hey, you know what? You did me one, I'll do you one. Like, no, you killed someone.

Yeah. And not only that, but another man sat in jail for like, for 23 years, right? Oh, 23? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I know 15 plus 15 is 30. And then if you take 30 and you...

Minus seven. Seven, you're going to get to 23. So... Yes. I do think, though, it's like, it's so weird. Because even in that final moment when they're at the gravesite, the devil man and dog are close. Everyone's always spying on people

in very close proximity. Like, when Jim Carrey is watching his wife and Danny Houston in that restaurant, he's literally standing in the middle of an empty street staring into a big bay window. It's like, if any, like, you would catch it in the corner of your eye. Like, it's not, he's not even trying.

Like, everyone is just there. Like, the other person standing at the cemetery, like, I'm like two feet away. I'm two feet away. It felt like, yeah, it felt like there was, ah, it was, it's so unsatisfying. This is a murder thriller mystery. Who done it?

I love these types of movies, too. It wants to be an erotic thriller, because there's all these kind of like transgressive sexually things that are happening in the flashback, especially. Fabrizia. Oh, yes, with Fabrizia. And then there's also like an element

where I felt like Jim Carrey was like, I want to make Seven. I want to make my Seven, my gritty, stylized crime, thriller, blah, blah, blah. Except that at the end, the ending is so unsatisfying, it's that he's been the killer the whole time and that he just didn't know it. There's no outing of the bad guy. There's no satisfying unraveling of the mystery

and the revelation of the real murderer, blah, blah, blah. It's just... What it feels like to me is when you've been in a writer's room where you're trying to come up with a solution for something and it's like late, it's like 11 o'clock at night, and it's like, all right, here's the deal. You know what it is?

He wrote the book, she knew about the book, but she's also by the devil, and he, so he hid the body. It sounds good, fast, fastly pitched, right? And then everyone's like, oh yeah, that is good. And then you go home, and then the next morning you come back and you're like, what did we come up with? Oh, that doesn't make any sense. But then they're like, wait a minute, wait a minute,

fuck, fuck, fuck, we already cast Danny Houston. Ah! So he's gotta be the murderer, right? He's Danny Houston. When you look at my notes in one section, these are the notes right after each other. Who is this? She wrote the book?

He wrote the book? He was the detective? Wait, it wasn't her? And it's so crazy, because Danny Houston, my notes are so similar. They're just almost, there's a huge chunk of my notes that all just, is this a homemade book? Movie we're in is in the book?

Like all these, everything equals 23, but not really. It's all just questions. All of mine are, why is he speaking to dogs like this? How dare he hate dogs? Why must he hate dogs? I'm going to tell you this. I know that we talked a lot about the number 23. I thought this movie was off the rails when the sun gave him

his birthday gift, and it looked like a five-year-old made a mug for him. That was crazy. The sun seems like a five-year-old made a mug for him. That was crazy. The son seems like a straight-up heist. The son is making out with his girlfriend on the couch. He's like, you're dead. The son is like a 16-year-old.

They all have a lovely relationship and dynamic to each other, and the son looks like he made him something in one of those pottery places that you go to for a seven-year-old birthday party. What small child would make? It's so so, it's not pretty in any way. It's like world's best dad. It's like, all right, all right,

this 18-year-old made this. How did this get me? How did this get me? I just wanna go back to Jim Carrey's weirdness. I'm watching the movie for clues. I'm like, what's going on here? Did you see that weird moment where like Jim Carrey's like trying on his vest

before he goes to the birthday party? He's like, I look like a rock star. Yes. Oh, I missed that. What the fuck are you talking? Really? What? I'm sorry, but Paul, I want to be clear.

He says, I look like a rock star to his son or to Virginia? Like he's trying to get fucked, and then you reveal that he's got a wife. Yes. Like you don't he's got a wife. Yes. And then it doesn't matter. By the way, it doesn't matter because he goes to that party

and they do want to fuck him anyway. That woman, the supervisor, that's where the scene happens where she says, wag your tail at me. So he is like, he's in his movie being like, I need to be an object of sexual desire, but also a family man, but also... I have to say this, I have a theory.

I don't know if I've talked about this theory here, but I'm gonna talk about it now, which is I believe that in every movie, Jim Carrey must show himself fucking because it's like, I am still a wanted man. Like in Ace Ventura, arguably one of the goofiest fucking movies, he fucks and it's like, and still a wanted man. Like in Ace Ventura, arguably one of the goofiest fucking movies, he fucks and it's like, and he's good at it.

Like it's not like it's a funny scene, but the scene isn't funny like that about him fucking. It's like, oh no, no, he's really good at fucking. All the animals are watching him fuck. And it's like, and it's a weird choice. Like I feel like Jim Carrey is like, I just need to let you everybody know. Like I may be weird or whatever. I'm goofy Jim Carrey's like, I just need to let you everybody know. Like, I may be weird or whatever, but I'm...

I'm goofy and do funny voices. But I still fuck. I fuck blood. Yeah. Just because I'm wearing the mask, don't worry, I fuck. There is something, I have to do a deeper research on this, but every time I see him in a movie, I'm like,

it comes out of nowhere that people are like, I wanna fuck you. And that's never, like, and we've been watching a lot of Adam Sandler movies, because our kids have been really enjoying them. It's been great to watch. Like, Sandler doesn't carry him stuff like that. Bill Murray doesn't carry him stuff like that.

Like Steve Martin doesn't. It's like, he's like, I fuck. You're right. And it's such a, it's hard in a way, because with Ace of Inter, it's such a funny movie and our kids love it, but we do have to constantly... Oh yeah, that movie is the down age one. Run in and fast forward, Jim Carrey, fucking.

I mean, there's a lot of things in there around sex that is a little messy. I mean, it takes, it's all new meaning for, take you to the pound. By the way, the opening scene of fucking Ace Ventura, he like, he has, he has this like, he steals a dog, right? The reward for stealing a dog is a blowjob. But the woman's like, I gotta blow you.

That's the opening, that's the cold open. I'm gonna be honest, I don't, I'll be honest. I don't think I've watched Ace Ventura for- It's quite funny, you know, he's so great in it. Yeah, probably 20 years. I'll tell you this much. The rumor I heard about Ace Ventura was that Jim Carrey couldn't

get a movie, you know, was trying to get a movie together, couldn't get one, and gets Ace Ventura and is like, this script is terrible, but I'm going to make sure it's going to be great. And every day would stay up until like two or three in the morning writing the pages for the next day to make sure it was great and really imbue this character and make it awesome. And I feel like he needs a little bit more of this energy in movie 23 to make it make sense. I feel like no one was looking at the next day's pages,

or they were and they weren't looking at what they already shot. I don't know. Jim Carrey did fire his agent at the test screening of this movie, at the screening. Whoa! Which is also like, fuck you, because you clearly wanted to do this.

You can't fire any, like, it's not like, it's not like you, it's not like, all right, paint my house, I'll come home and see what it is. Like, you are, you're an accomplice. Like, you were on set, you saw it, you got that bad back tattoo, you picked up the saxophone, you knew what you were doing.

Yeah, this, I mean, now that I understand he was obsessed with the number 23 and all this, this has gotta be a passion project. This is his toy. That was perfect. It's his friend, yes. His friend, Fernley, Fernley Phillips, who is the writer of this, his friend.

Oh, okay. Fernley Phillips. Did anyone else notice that when he wrote a note to Agatha when he was leaving to go dig out the skeleton at the park, which also had a name that, you know, rhymed together, did anyone else notice that the note he left for Agatha, that he put on the refrigerator, put a magnet on it for her to see,

his handwriting was so flowery and flourished. I don't know if we have a screen grab of it, but it was the most kind of feminine, swirly. Don't you? I always assume that is a props department person. That wasn't percent. But it was just so hilarious. Hilariously not him.

Because it should look like the chaotic scrawls. That are on his arms. That he's been doing on his arms, on the walls, on the paint, on everything. This is cursive, like pure cursive. I will say the interesting thing about Fernley Phillips, the writer of this, is he's only credited with the number 23. It's gotta be a pseudonym. Jim Carrey wrote this, right?

They have pictures of him, but he never wrote any, like, it's not even like, oh, like, I've never seen an IMDB page. It's one, it's one credit. Ah, that's got, there's something. I think there's something going on. I would argue that Jim Carrey wrote this movie. That's what I just said, yeah. I feel like Jim Carrey wrote this under a pseudonym, and Fernley Phillips is like his Tony Clifton. Yeah. Fernley Phillips, IMDb. I'm like, I'm just...

I... What are we doing? We can't be going down the rabbit hole. We're doing it. We're doing the number 23. We're stuck in a conspiracy. That's what I was saying. Like, they did this to us. The number 23 is out for us. I'm dead serious.

Guys, Fernley... Fernley Phillips is not... You guys are both clickety-clackety going through, like, a conspiracy theory. Okay, so I just found... Okay, I just found the New York Times. Molly and I are fighting at the same time. Okay. So, okay, in February 2, this is their wedding announcement. In February, 2002, Friendly Phillips was an undiscovered Hollywood screenwriter with a month to go before his money would run out

and he'd have to go home to England. He was so low on cash that he would wait until McDonald's offered hamburgers for 29 cents and buy five to save money for the coming week. Alyssa Ferguson was an associate producer working for Beau Flynn, reading 30 to 50 scripts a week. When Phillips screenplayed the number 23 landed on our desk, it was love at first sight.

I thought this was probably the best script I'd seen in my entire life. And that's how they met. She read this script and that's how they... Like this movie united them over the movie 23. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm stunned. Yeah, and it looks like he's written other things too. Okay, has it? It does look like he's written other things. I don't know, Jason.

I don't see where you're seeing that. Sorry, I'm saying he's, I'm saying he is credited as having written features for Paramount, Warner Brothers, Universal, Fox. And now these may not have been produced, but there are plenty of people who have successful careers in which they get paid to a lot of money to write scripts that then eventually do not get made.

I love that he found the love of his life from writing the movie The Number 23. Like this is like, it would be very different story. Oh, and he teaches a screenwriting class. We're going deep. He teaches a screenwriting class. So he's a real person. We apologize for suggesting that this was, that he was a student. Yes.

But by the way, and now we're gonna sign up first class. Uh... It's very interesting to see all of the other celebrities that were at the premiere of the number 23. Oh, whoa. Should this be a segment? This is a segment we've never done. Well, I have a question about this. I'll tell you, um...

I'll tell you who is there. Stacey Keebler. Oh, I have a question about this. I'll tell you. I'll tell you who is there. Stacy Keebler. Oh, hey. Rosario Dawson. Oh, nice. Came out to support, which was always nice to see. Well, I wanna ask this question. Can I quickly say?

Yeah, go ahead. What is your take on this? Do you, do either of you show up to a movie that you have no involvement in? And let's bar a very close friend's something. either of you show up to a movie that you have no involvement in? And let's bar a very close friend's something. But like, this is like, oh, hey, you know, this is a movie premiere and take away COVID and everything like that. Like, do you show up if you're not involved in it at all?

Now, just to clarify, you mean like walk the carpet and be photographed, right? Yes. Okay, you're not saying do you go to the movie. Oh, no, no, no, yeah. You're saying do you go to the premiere and do you get photographed for a movie you were not in?

Because there are certain friends I know that will say, oh, I gotta, I gotta, I'm gonna go to this premiere tonight. Oh, do you have anything to do with it? No, no, no, I'm just gonna go walk the carpet, yeah. I don't. I don't. I mean, like you said though, unless with it? No, no, no. I'm just gonna go walk the carpet. Yeah I don't okay. I don't I mean like you said though unless I'm supporting a friend, right? Like if you had a movie that was going and you invited me to come yeah, even if I wasn't in it I certainly would come and support your film or whatever

But no, I wouldn't go to now. Let me be clear if they said come to the premiere of fast 10 Oh fast and furious 10. I'm in I would go and and if they said, come to the premiere of Fast 10, Fast and Furious 10, I would go. And if they said, do you want to walk the red carpet? I would be like, absolutely, yes. I'm 100% sure. That's different because we are involved in that one. That's what I think too.

You've done it. But no, no, I wouldn't randomly go to some random premiere, rather. Yeah, I would definitely go for a friend, obviously. But I wouldn't go either unless it was a fast movie or it was a movie that I felt like super attached to. Right. So this, I'm just saying,

so these people who are showing up, they're coming because either they're part of, maybe they're part of this. Maybe they're 23 conspiracy theorists. I don't know, I don't wanna lie. They're 23 and me? A part of me wonders though, if some of these actresses might have been

in a cut of the movie. And cause I know I have a number of friends who did not find out they were cut out of the movie until the premiere. Whoa. Oh yeah. So it's also possible they thought they were in it. You mean movies, not this movie.

My favorite thing was- Just the 13 Applegate was there too. I showed up. I was in that Larry David movie. My favorite thing was- Just the routine application was there too. I showed up. Oh wow. I was in that Larry David movie. Clear history. The Clear History. And I went, I was excited.

I knew what was in it. I shot with Larry for like a day. I went with you, I'll never forget. He was pretty much the first person to arrive. He was the first person to arrive. From your first own movie. And then they displayed the red carpet on the screen. So as you were sitting in your seat,

you could see people walking around. You couldn't hear it, but you could see it. And Larry got up to take people off the red carpet so the movie would start on time, which was one of the best moves I've ever seen for the lead. Amazing. But when I walked into that movie, I bumped into him in the lobby.

He's like, oh no, oh no. We cut that seed. We cut it way, way, way down. Oh no. It was such a funny moment of him realizing it. And then it does. It does sting a little bit when you, you know? Yeah, but it's, you know, but it was nice that it nodded.

I would think especially to find out at the premiere. Yes, you've gotten dressed up. Yeah, but it was nice to acknowledge. I would think especially to find out at the premiere. Yes, you've gotten dressed up. Yeah, it's horrible. All right, so anyway, down that rabbit hole, I will say this. What is Jim Carrey as a private investigator if he's meeting with suicidal people? Because he's not a cop. He's a PI. Right?

Did he start as a cop and get, like, disgraced? Wasn't there a thing where they were like, you're not a detective anymore or something like that? Well, that was that moment where he goes, did they take away your gun? And he's like, yeah, but hold on, but hold on. But when he first meets with that woman, she's kind of hanging like she hung herself.

This movie's representation of hanging like she hung herself. This movie's representation of suicide and mental illness frankly is deeply troubling and problematic. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Like across the board, everything from the hospital to the whatever is going on with him, with everybody,

everybody, the treatment of mental illness in this movie is absolute, you know, frankly, nuts. Well, maybe, maybe because they're all, you know, they're all obsessed with number 23, so they're not, you know, they can't be doing their job. But that idea that he's like meeting with her, like he's meeting with a woman before she commits suicide to talk to her about why she, I mean,

this is where the movie really, like I don't understand what the fuck is going on. I couldn't follow that. And I guess it makes sense that it's written by somebody who is having a mental breakdown as well, because it is, it is confusing. I mean, it's confusing, it's confusing. Oh yeah.

No, that's the thing is none of the, cause we spend so much time inside the story, inside the book. Yes. where Jim Carrey is portraying Detective Fingerling, again, I can't state it enough. His name is Fingerling. And we spend so much time in that story, and it features Jim Carrey narrating, voiceover for the movie, hard-boiled kind of, again, like Raymond Chandler-style

noir, hard-boiled detective stuff, and it's nonsense. None of we, the story of the book, the detective fingerling story, doesn't make any sense. No, he's not on the case. He's just jumping around, fucking people, holding his sax. This is Chekhov's sax. He's holding it, but he never plays it.

By the way, I will say this. I wrote it, I jumped up in the middle of watching this movie last night. Like I had figured it out. I've only, every now and then, every now and then there'll be a moment. Like I figured out the sixth sense before the reveal and I was like so proud. I was like, ah, I did it. I saw the, and I was able to enjoy the movie, like, for like the next 10 minutes,

like seeing what I knew. I jumped up the same way last night, and I was like, he's got rabies. That's what I thought the entire movie was like. He's crazy. I love that. I love that as a, as a, as a, from the initial dog bite. Yes, he's got rabies and he's gone crazy.

He didn't treat it, he didn't take it seriously. And then they never even discussed that. That was it. But I really was like. That would have been incredible because you know, rabies, once it takes over, it will, you're done, it's over. And that's what I thought would have been interesting.

I was like, oh, this is like, but this whole idea of this larger murder plot, and then it's also like, you're doing something really weird, which is like, you're telling three stories. You're telling the story of the dog catcher who has amnesia, who killed this girl that he loved, but then that's also being personified in another book because he's also the suicide blonde.

She jumps out the window, but he actually jumped out the window because he was feeling that. So the movie opens with the end. It's very, and then when you try to connect the pieces, it doesn't even make, it doesn't make sense, nor do they even do that fight club thing of, you see? What you were missing. Yeah, that's what they never filled in the blanks for you. They just, you know, they just give you a couple of reveals that are just not satisfying.

You know, like the other thing that's really unsatisfying is just the end, the end of the movie. Like when he, it should feel incredible when he gets to that room and is ripping the wallpaper off to discover that chapter 23 of the book is on the walls of the hotel. That should be a fucking awesome reveal where you're like, whoa, the missing chapter. And you're like, wait, what, what, what is going, what, what, what, what is this? Also, there's so little, there's so little, the movie is full of truly insane moments

that get no reaction from people. When Bud Court slices his own neck open with a box cutter in the mailbox door, nobody yells, nobody screams. Do you mean the mailbox facility as Virginia Madsen refers to it? I'm sorry, DMF, the mailbox facility. By the way, I also, as Virginia Madsen refers to it? I'm sorry, the MF, the mailbox facility. I love Virginia Madsen.

By the way, I also love Virginia Madsen. I love her too. It made me think of, like, where is she, and why don't I see more of her? She was terrific in this. Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman, both great actors, and I will say even Jim Carrey in this, all selling it. Except for Jim Carrey's voiceover,

every one, like, I mean, but Virginia Madsen, like, I'm like, oh, you're, she, but you're like, you have to do the hardest thing, which is like, you come home, your husband's written all over the walls and you're like, hey, all right, well, what's on your mind, honey? Like, she- I agree, I agree.

I feel like Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman, and to a lesser degree, Danny Houston, but really Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman are doing to a lesser degree, Danny Houston, but really Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman are doing an incredible, are doing yeoman's work trying to ground this movie into reality by being like, okay. Virginia Madsen was married to Danny Houston? What?

Oh, I didn't know that. From 1989 to 1992. I like that you almost just said that she was married to Logan Larkin. Ha ha ha ha. Wow, so they were not married when they were in this movie together. No. But I just, yeah.

When were they married? From 1989 to 1992, a short-lived one. Oh, interesting. So this was a reunion of sorts. Yeah. I don't think I knew she was married to Antonio Sabato, Jr. Oh. Wow. Or had a reunion of sorts. Yeah. I don't think I knew she was married to Antonio Sabato Jr. Oh, wow.

Or had a child with him. Wow. We're getting into it, guys. We're deep in Madsen. She was great. She was great in this. Oh, it's great. Because there was also a period where,

and I don't know what you guys felt, there was also a period where I was like, oh, she did it. Yes. And I was like, OK, I'm on board for that version of it, where she is, her past is coming back to, and because of this book or someone is taunting her because she is the first person who finds the book, you know? So I was like, oh, is this somehow her perpetuating

or putting this thing in motion? Can I just quickly pitch out what I think this story is and tell me if I'm right or wrong. Jim Carrey's dad has been haunted by the number 23. Jim Carrey, his father kills himself. Jim Carrey then feels like, oh my gosh, my dad had this little curse, but I'm doing okay, I'm in love with a girl,

everything's going great. Catches his girlfriend cheating on him. And then the number 23 is kind of infecting him at that point. He kills his girlfriend, blames it on someone else, but that forces him to go crazy. He tries to commit suicide, gets amnesia, goes to this hospital, gets better. The number 23 is gone, immediately meets Virginia Madsen. They get married. They have a very happy life, besides the fact that he hates dogs and he's slightly racist. And everything is OK until he finds this book. But we don't know anything, and then we know what happens there.

But we don't know anything about how Virginia Madsen gets corrupted or why she is the way she is. Why she wants the walls. Why she wants the walls, blood red. Is she working for the devil? When she is the way she is. Why she wants the walls. Why she wants the walls, blood red. Is she working for the devil? When she read the book. Like, we don't know anything about this character. I think the movie, I don't think that, well, I don't know.

June, I'd like to hear what you think, but I don't think the movie thinks Virginia Madsen has been corrupted or is any sort of. I think Virginia Madsen, Danny Houston, Robin the son, I think they all exist in a, they are benign. I don't think any of them have malice or malicious intent. And maybe that's why they cast Danny Houston was to throw you off the scent and be like,

you think he's gonna be the bad guy, but he's actually helping, you know? Yeah, I genuinely don't know, because I did find it suspect that she was painting the walls red. I mean, what a color, you know? But also blue. One of the other rooms,

she was painting blue during the movie. Okay, but she also found the book. Well, her finding the book and then her trying to throw him off the scent, I don't know, there's something there. Like, but you said that she also, so who hid the body? She hid the body. She did.

She hid the skeleton. She, I think she and once she, okay. So once Bud Court slices his neck open in the mailbox facility and he says to her, go to the Institute, you know, it's, you'll find it, go find it, go to the Institute. So, and she pulls out of his pocket, his ID card for Nathaniel, the Nathaniel Institute,

is that right? And his name, his name is Sirius Leary. He's the, I believe, is Doctor Sirius Leary. He's named, I believe, is Doctor Seriously. Yes. I think his name is basically Doctor Seriously. Oh, my God. Ha-ha! Oh, my God.

So, so, so, but he, and he, he has in his pocket his hospital ID for when... So, and she takes it and she goes to the Nathaniel Institute, which is covered in like razor wire and has clearly been shuttered for a decade, at least, right? Yes, at least. Why is he still carrying his ID in his pocket? She walks right in, the light bulb is red,

there are lit candles in this abandoned facet. I couldn't make heads or tails out of any of this. Why, why are there so many candles around that are lit? I'm assuming she lit them. Why is there a red light bulb? It's fucking crazy. But anyway, she goes, she finds the locker, the foot locker that has all of her husband's stuff.

She finds the manuscript, she rips the paper off of it, the top secret and finds his name underneath, right? Right. So this is where she learns everything. Then she goes and she realizes he killed whoever and she goes and takes the skeleton because she doesn't want him to be caught.

Is that what's happening? I do not know. To protect him? I do not know. I do not know. Because I'm not sure why she's protecting him. I don't think he called the cops. So protecting him from what exactly?

From the cops. Okay, so at that point she knows, but at that point, does she know he killed Laura? Someone, yes. Because she realizes he wrote this story. Wow, what a wife then, honestly. Yes, yes. You know? Relationship goals?

Truly, like, I... Much respect. I'm reading through some interviews with the cast, and I want to read you this. I feel like they all drank the Kool-Aid pretty early on, I'm reading through some interviews with the cast, and I want to read you this. I feel like they all drank the Kool-Aid pretty early on because this is kind of interesting. It's like, Virginia Madsen's like, I love this,

the number 23, you know, there's so many things, in case you're a doubter, and then Carrie's like, yeah, there was a phenomenon on set. You know, if you know that my name and Schumacher's name, you put them together, that's 23 letters. And then Virginia Madsen goes, yeah, well, Danny Houston and I were married 23 years ago. And you know, and so like, they're all like up.

I think that they've lost the plot on set a little bit too. It's like, and I think what they're all saying. Well, yeah, because that makes no sense. Because what they can't do is be like, well, yeah, because Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman's names together. Oh, wait, no, those aren't. OK, no, no, so not those ones. OK, so how about, you know?

This is what Joel Schumacher says. He's like, you know, he's like, I wanted to. He's like, this is my 20th movie. I wish it was 23. I couldn't. And then, and then they, they do this thing where they say that he, he sees the dog again. The dog takes him to the cemetery again.

And then the priest comes out and says that the dog is the guardian of the dead. Well, that's the devil dog. Or is it an angel dog? Is the dog helping solve and bring closure to this restless soul? That's such a good question, because why would Laura, why would this dog be a devil dog?

Why would Laura be in hell? She didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, Laura needs to be put to rest. And is the dog trying to be put to rest. And is the dog trying to bring closure to her restless soul? First of all, all dogs are angel dogs. All dogs go to heaven. Okay. Yes. All dogs go to heaven.

Sure, sure. Must love dogs. So let's be clear about that. Well, can we just say that I will talk about this, and this is a very serious thing, actually. The dog did not show up to the premiere. I think that they did have a falling out. The dog is not like the way he was edited.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. And that is of course, and we're talking about Ned, who played Butch, and this was Butch's acting debut. He was very comfortable with the cast, and even when he was being chased by Jim Carrey. So Ned is, great little work there by Ned. I don't know, and even when he was being chased by Jim Carrey, you know, like, so Ned is, Ned is great little work there by Ned.

I don't know, you guys. This doesn't, you know, it just doesn't, no pun intended, add up. Oh, yeah, remember when he tried to hit the dog too? Yes! I was so upset. He literally, and what was that about exactly? What was that moment about? Why was he trying to kill the dog? Because I think the dog represents his, if he didn't get bit by the dog,

he would have been on time to his birthday dinner. And if he was on time to his birthday dinner, he would never have looked at the book and his life would have been great. Okay, so all these things might be true, but like now we have to go kill that dog? And not only that, but why do we have to bring the family along for it?

Like he brings his family along for killing dogs, digging up bodies. Getting into the mailbox facility, watch a man slit his throat. It feels like they're all with the same level of intent as like, let's go play Pokemon Go together. Yeah, let's do some geocaching or whatever. Yes, some geocaching by digging up the bones of a woman

that I killed 20 years ago. Like, what is this? Yeah, like, it's team building. He's a bad dad. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, obviously, we have opinions about this movie. And I want to bring you into the world of the people

who love this movie, because now it is time for second opinions. Of the people who love this movie because now it is time for second opinions The movie was a piece of shit Yet this person recommends it Tell me what is the message Maybe that art is subjected. I need a second opinion. All right, these are five star reviews.

Cold from Amazon. I might even start taking them from Letterboxd as well because these are pretty great. This one just starts out, title is solid movie. Jim Carrey made a good movie, but there is one flaw only. No reference to Michael Jordan, who is number 23. So there you go, but five stars nonetheless. We know what five stars is, two stars and three stars put together.

Oh, you're right. Wow, look at that. Holy shit. Jingle customer writes, I know for me the movie seemed to drag a little, but when things, AKA the truth, starts to unfold, then it starts to make sense. And you will come to realize

you may not have been paying attention. This is a movie you're gonna wanna watch again because you need to watch it like the sixth sense. I first saw this movie when it came out and this was only the second time I watched it, and I couldn't remember how it ended, but I'm the type of person who likes knowing what's going on. So like, I like spoilers, and it helps me enjoy movies,

because, you know, if something doesn't make sense right away, I'll get bored, but that's just me. This is a good movie. And if you're like me, I would say be patient and watch, and they will all make sense. Five stars, suspense, dot, dot dot dot, pay attention. Guys, I just realized something that's really fucking me up.

I watched this movie on Amazon Prime. Okay. And 23 is a prime number. Oh! It's fucking real! Here we go. All right, I have two quick ones here. This is from Dominic Calandre.

My name is Dominic Joseph Calandre. If you count the spaces as characters, there are 23 characters in my name. I was born on 12, 1793. It adds up to 23. Or if you prefer, 12 plus 17 minus nine plus three is equal to 23. I checked the time right after the character turns to look at the clock.

His said 11, 12, mine said 9, 23. Checked again later in the movie at a random time. What time was it? 9.59. Added up. I had a friend who was born on March 23rd. We have 23 mutual Facebook friends. She said she couldn't remember a large amount of her childhood. I never found out why exactly. Coincidences? But Jesus, that's weird. Stay safe.

Five stars. Am I Top Secret? Stay safe, am I Top Secret? Top Secret and Sirius Leary. Dr. Sirius Leary and Top Secret. This is some next level nonsense. This is absurd. I feel like this movie is a prank. That's what I'm saying.

It plays at parts like it is a prank. I feel utterly ill. Oh my god. I really don't feel well. I really don't. Top Secrets. Top Secrets is some next level stuff. Because you also feel like they're like, but this is also, we have to just briefly just mention,

like Joel Schumacher, I feel like he's like, yeah, Topsy Krets, I like it. Like, I feel like it's like, like, you know, he's like... Because it's so crazy because it's like, that's not a name. Topsy is... It's like... Topsy.

Like, Topsy Krets. What are you talking about? Of course it is,sy. Topsy Krets. What are you talking about? By the way, just have it written. Of course it is. It's Topsy Krets. You know my very serious girlfriend, Topsy Krets, right? Have it written by Anonymous. Oh my gosh. The tagline for this movie, the truth will find you.

First it takes hold of your mind. Another one, first it takes hold of your mind, then it takes hold of your life. Or finally, the other tagline, a number is just a number. First takes hold of your mind. Another one first takes hold of your mind, then it takes hold of your life. Or finally the other tagline, a number is just a number or is it? What's amazing is that Bud Court, Dr. Sirius Leary, also still crazy, he having the manuscript that says by Jim Carrey's character name, I can't remember what it is. He puts Top Secret over it. So he invents the name Top Secrets.

That's, so he must, I mean, like, he's like, well, the name should be Top Secret, but I can't just say Top Secret. Top Secrets? Yes, okay. That, I wanna know what that journey is. I mean, it feels like a dumb person trying to be clever. And I say that in the nicest way. It's like, top secret.

Because it's also like, it's not a top secret that he's, like top secret is not that, like what it should be is like an anagram. Did any of us think of it? We saw the name and heard the name over and over again. And it wasn't until that prison scene where the guy goes, yeah, the author, top secret. That I was like, oh no.

I know. I mean, because my thought would be the better take on it would be that it's his name, right? Like Walter Sparrow and you anagram that, or Sparrow's Nest or Sparrow's Nest, or Sparrow's Brain, you know, some version of his name, like I am Walter Sparrow, you know, but you know, it's like, I don't even know how you would be,

but it's like, it's not top secret. It's not top secret. Oh, no, it's ridiculous. Folks, this is a fun one. I mean, wow. And it represents to me. You have a headache. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's unfinished. Cause you didn't get closure.

No. Oh my God. All right, well, at that point. Thanks a lot, Paul. Sorry guys. Thank you, April. Anyone wanna plug anything that they got? I will plug, and this is not a plug,

but it is just a full-throated, full-hearted recommendation. The movie of the year, Paul, you told me about it. I've watched it. It's called Plane. And it is fucking incredible. June and I saw that in the theater. It was so fun. Incredible stuff. There's part of me that's like, should we do that on this show?

Only because I would love to just talk about it. And maybe we should. Let's revel. Let's revel. I loved it. Let's love it. It's back. It's on VOD.

And oh my gosh. And again, just a giant shout out to Gerard Butler for giving us that amazing Geostorm. You can see it on all of our socials. I love that he did that during the plane premiere. But yeah, if you are interested in plane, let us know on Discord or on social, and maybe we should just tackle it.

I know that... It's fantastic. I loved it. I was having a blast. It was great. It's like a solid movie. Yeah, oh, it's terrific. I loved every goddamn minute of it.

Please put me in plane too. Oh my gosh. We just wanna be in planes. Well, by the way, I wanna go this this way. We can get into a bigger, but I think there needs to be a prequel or sequel with Skarsgard. I want to see Mike Coulter do his... Incredible. That's another movie. His Foreign Legion service or I would be into what happens next for him as well, wherever he goes next.

Amen. Got it. I thought he was fantastic as well. Absolutely. What else are you up to, Jason? I want to, oh, you know what? I want to plug, I did two recent appearances on some other terrific podcasts that I want to get out there. I was a guest on the fantastic Earwolf podcast TV I say with Ashley Ray, which is a fantastic show. I did a great year. If you like the recommendation episodes that Paul and I do on the last looks, this was a year end recommendation list with me and Ashley Ray. It's a fantastic show. And then I just did an episode of our friend Cool Up V Lysak

has a wonderful and Suchin Pak have a wonderful podcast called Add to Cart. And I just did a whole episode that is, no joke everybody, a secret pilot for Zook's Cubes. By the way, first of all, I'm upset that you did Zook's Cubes off of the how did this get made main feed. I'm so sorry. I mean, let's be honest. It's not really Zook's Cubes. It's Add to did this get made of main food. I'm so sorry. I mean, let's be honest.

It's not really Zukes cubes. It's at the car, but it just was fun. You gave me a cube for my birthday. I'm so excited about it, but it opened my mind to what a cube is. And maybe in last looks, we should talk about it a little bit because I need to understand.

Did you notice that it stands flat when you open it? And like, I'm like, this is not how I, cause what my cubes have been are simply just... By the way, if you're not hearing June's voice, she's not just sitting here quietly, she had to go. Uh, but like, they're just like little, um, formless bags. That's what the cubes I've been working... Well, that, what I gave you is more of something to carry,

like, you know, it's got a little bit of padding, it's got a little bit of organization. So that is more for like, I have one of those that I, when I travel with like an Apple TV and some cords and a camera and it's like, cause it has a little bit of padding, I put like electronics in that cube.

There, there's a, like I have a, I have a little electronic, we will get into it. I want to hear, I'm going to listen into Add to Cart. Add to Cart is a great show. It's a, I have a little, we'll get into it. I want to hear, I'm going to listen into Add to Cart. Add to Cart is a great show. It's super fun. Add to Cart is a blast. And I just, they ask people to bring products or things that they like or enjoy and want to talk about. And so I just took the opportunity to talk about backpacks and packing cubes and my favorite card game, Monopoly Deal, which I also gave you, which is fantastic.

Yeah, which was amazing. And I got to play that with my kids. I will tell you that the thing that you've gotten our family hooked on is Flushing Frenzy, which is basically a toilet roulette. You roll a dice, you crank a toilet, and then you plunge it, and then you lose by when the

poop shoots out. And then literally a poop with eyes, it's the best game of all time. It is a game that the game item is a toilet that you plunge and a poop shoots out the top and whoever catches the poop gets the poop. Come on, that's a fucking great game. It's a great game. Now I will also just talk about a podcast I was on and I wanted to ask you a question about it.

So I did Dax Shepard's podcast. Sure, Armchair Expert. They love you. Love you. Oh yeah? He and Monica? Yes, they talk so highly of you. I've never been reached out to more in my life about being on a podcast than I was after that show.

Did you find that too? Yes, absolutely. Like, my cousins reached out to me. People who I don't think have ever listened to any other podcast listened to that podcast. You know, I think that we do the show for such a long time that like no one tells us like, hey, I heard your show or whatever.

So it's nice when you hear like feedback that it doesn't just go into the ether. All right, so that is it. Jason, I think I'm gonna take your challenge and we're gonna make a Bud Quartz crazy room or maybe should it be Dr. Serious? Dr. Serious Leary? Dr. Serious Leary's crazy room,

which maybe like make it like a bar shirt, like it's like a, like it almost looks like an advertisement for a bar or something. Oh, like it's a logo? Like it's a logo, yeah. Yeah, maybe that's the way to go. So check out T-Public there. And people, make sure you listen to Last Looks because we've got some big surprises coming up.

We always have good special guests. Jason and I are breaking down a lot of stuff. We're getting into cubes, we're getting into podcasts, everything there. And a big thank you to our entire team. I'm talking about the amazing producerial work of Scott Sonny, Molly Reynolds and our movie picking producer Averill Halley, our engineer Alex Gonzalez and our publisher, July Diaz. People, they make the trains run and we love them. So, we will see you next week for Last Looks and until then, bye for now.