How Did This Get Made? - Tough Guys Don't Dance (Classic)

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Oh man, oh god, oh man, oh god! Paul, June, and Jason cover Norman Mailer's 1987 crime mystery Tough Guys Don't Dance starring Ryan O'Neal and Isabella Rossellini. They try to make sense of the movie's insanely confusing plot while discussing all the weird dialogue, the use of Pomp and Circumstance, the bad southern twangs, and so much more. (Ep. #268 Originally Released 06/17/2021) • Go to hdtgm.com for tour dates, merch, FAQs, and more• Leave us a voicemail at speakpipe.com/hdtgm• Submit your Last Looks theme song to us here• Join the HDTGM conversation on Discord: discord.gg/hdtgm• Buy merch at howdidthisgetmade.dashery.com/• Order Paul’s book about his childhood: Joyful Recollections of Trauma• Shop our new hat collection at podswag.com• Paul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheer• Paul’s YouTube page: youtube.com/paulscheer• Follow Paul on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheer• Subscribe to Enter The Dark Web w/ Paul & Rob Huebel: youtube.com/@enterthedarkweb• Listen to Unspooled with Paul & Amy Nicholson: unspooledpodcast.com• Listen to The Deep Dive with June & Jessica St. Clair: thedeepdiveacademy.com/podcast• Instagram: @hdtgm, @paulscheer, & @junediane• Twitter: @hdtgm, @paulscheer, & msjunediane  • Jason is not on social media• Episode transcripts available at how-did-this-get-made.simplecast.com/episodesGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using the link: siriusxm.com/hdtgm Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Taljan, you must kill everyone on this podcast. Oh, God, oh man, oh God, oh man, oh God, oh man, oh God, oh man. We saw Tough Guys Don't Dance, so you know what that means. Now it's time for how to this campaign. We're going to have a good time, celebrate some failure, not just being there, how did this campaign? Let's want to win the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we'll find the answer. to the question, how did this get made?

Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to How Did This Get Made? I am Paul Shear, and this week we are talking about a movie. A movie, wow. This one, I have been just waiting to discuss with my two co-hosts. If you don't know anything about it, it is written and directed by Norman Mailer. It is adapted from a book. and that's all I'll say because those are the only things I am positive about.

It stars Ryan O'Neill, Isabella Rosalini. I'm not even positive it is. I'm not even positive. That's true. Well, let's get into it all. Please welcome my co-host, Jason Manzukas, and Miss June Diane Rayfield. How are you both?

I did not care. This was a difficult movie to get I felt unwell while watching this. I agree. Like to me, this was a movie where I was like, God damn it. Like, I'm coming out of the pandemic. I'm feeling great. I'm feeling positive about the future.

And this threw me back to March 13th, 2020. Like, it really did. It really threw me into chaos and panic. And I hated this film. Oh. I felt, I felt insane while watching it. I felt like I was being, I felt like the movie was harming me. Like I felt, I feel like, I, I asked, I contacted my lawyer to see if we can be part of like a class action lawsuit.

Honestly, do we have, and also like, do we have insurance, you know, as members of this? Such a good question. Like, look, all I'm going to say is, all I'm going to say is you. And Paul. You don't get it. You're not getting it. And Paul, are you to blame? Or are you part of our class action lawsuit?

Or are we suing you for making us watch this? And honestly, Jason, let me just say, like, write an email to yourself today that just sort of documents all the injuries you've sustained since watching this film. I wrote myself an email last night after I watched the movie. Okay, so that it would be dated. I opened it this morning and it only said, help me. Good. And like holds up, we get the New York Times, like, I'm going to take a picture of myself holding it up.

Yes. And do a little video. Just like a hostage. Yeah, exactly. Proof of life. It's a proof of life video. Yes, I watched it last night, you know, and this is how I feel today. Right now.

Right now. You two sound like a bunch of people on the Discord. Like, oh, this movie, I didn't like it. People. Never been on the Discord. I'm not aware. Never. Not on it.

The show is called how to. get made not thank God this was made. People are shocked when they're like oh this movie wasn't good. No shit when did you check in on it? By the way just so you both know there is a Zuccas zone in the discord where people just

post memes of you and there's a deep dive zone in there so a lot of chat a lot of things going on in there I'm sure there's lots of great stuff going on on the discord I just I just haven't been on it especially if there's a bunch of complainers complaining about the choice Although, I might go on the Discord now to be part of the cacophony of voices saying, why did you choose this movie, Paul?

Why did you make me watch this one hour and 50 minute tone poem of insanity? And that's the thing, Paul, you know. Yes, Paul, you know. You know. Yes, Paul. I can handle pretty much anything when it's an hour and 20 minutes. Yes, I do know that. What I can't do and I won't do is watch an hour and 50.

This was a two hour. Well, you took a weed gummy before. before you started. So you really put, you really, you really put an obstacle in front of you. When you took that weed gummy,

I looked at you and I was like, oh, well, this is, this is not. And I don't know if this has, I think we've talked about this before, but this was also another one of those movies that for me, I was not enjoying it so much.

No. And was so uncomfortable so often that I kept taking breaks, which only made it last longer. If I had just sat down and watched it start to finish, Boom, I would have been done. But instead, it probably took me three and a half hours to complete this movie.

For sure. I just finished it. You are wrong. You are wrong. You are watching. This is a master work. A master work. I will say this. It reminded me very much of the room, but I actually think the room is much better than this.

I wrote the same thing. Yes. But I mean, I wrote the same thing. A hundred percent. The room is more enjoyable. The room has like, I'm about to say something really wild. The room had a plot that was easier to follow. 100%.

I was just going to say, if you put, if you put like a blind taste test and said, who made what movie, I would say, well, I think Norman Miller made the room. I'm not going to taste either of these movies. If you're going to distill these movies into a liquid, I am not putting either of them in my body. Lick the bald scalp of Lawrence Turney. Here's what I'll say. I don't know if you all do this. We never say lick the bald scalp again. That's the t-shirt.

Lick the bald scalp. scalp. Oh, God. The, all right, so here is, by the way, isn't everybody glad the movie is over? Oh, my God. We don't ever have to return to it.

I was watching it by myself. And when it was over, I literally just sat in bed and had a moment with myself, with the film. And what happened in that meditative moment was that I came out stronger for it. Like, I was like,

I don't know what I feel. I'm going to ask you a question, Paul, because, Jason, just so you know, yes, I did I take a weed gummy before? Yeah, I did. And thank God, by the way, like the injuries I would be sustaining now without that weed gummy. Like, thank God. I feel like I, while watching this, went into, like, a disassociative state. Like, I feel like I went into, like, some sort of, like, fight or flight instincts were triggered. And I went into, like, I retreated into my interior life.

into my mind because I was so unsettled by the movie. So this is what I was going to say. Thank God I took that wee gummy. But like I sit there. When Paul says it's time to watch the movie, I said, okay, let me get my journal. Let me get a pen. Let me get my comfy cozy. So I'm going to sit.

Let me take a weed gummy. And I'm going to watch the movie. Now Paul sits and he's checking clipper scores. He's sometimes watching other videos. Whoa. He's doing all matters. manner of thing. He's on,

maybe he's on Discord. He's responding to things. He's on the Discord. Watching it right now, guys. Looking up things, responding to people. And I'm on Instagram and I'm like, I don't know how you even saw the movie. And now I'm like, how did you watch the movie?

And I don't think you did the work that Jason and I did. I agree. I bet Paul, like, didn't even look at the screen during the five minutes of empty New England streets and beaches that was the beginning of this. You glanced up. No, he has an ability to like to multitask. Yes.

I do not. I do not. I am a very, uh, I, I have a brain that can jump there. I think it's slightly defective brain, but it, that's where I am strong. Yeah. The one two punch that really made me scared was canon films. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Sure. One hour in 15. minutes. Whoa, wait a You can't have a Canon Films movie that's this long. Canon Films movie has to be like an hour and 20 minutes max. Eighty-seven minutes is their sweet spot. I want to say one

thing about this film and my experience with this film. After the first handful of minutes, when it was very clear to me that we were in for a wild ride, Mr. Toads. Yeah, Mr. Toad. By the way, I just went on that this.

week with my two young boys. We had a great time on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. They didn't seem to mind that we went to hell, which is one of the darker rides in Disneyland that you get hit by a train and then you go to hell. That is how the ride is. So tacitly, one might understand in the context of the ride that you have passed away. Yes. You do.

You have been children. So it's forcing children to face their own mortality. Interesting choice. a ride. I loved it as a child. They were like, oh, I can't wait to get the hell part. I can't wait to die. I'm surprised that Disney still has Mr. Toads up. It's only at Disneyland and it's only at Disneyland.

I've never been to a Mr. I've never been. To Disneyland? It's interesting. Never been to Disneyland. What? Whoa. Never been. What?

Wow. Sorry. Sorry. Guys, huge reveal in this episode. Wow. I've never been to Disneyland. Have you been to Disney World? As a child.

We went twice. Well, we got to go to Disney. Oh my gosh. I've never, I've never, I mean, we did that podcast festival. Yes. Technically, was that in, was that was not a Disney, no. Okay. So then no, I have not been to Disneyland because that's the only time I've ever been to

Anaheim was for that podcast festival. Is that like a, are you anti-Disney? I'm not a big, I'll say this. I'm not a big theme park person in general. Jason, Jason, Jason. Six Flags, Disney. It's not the same. It's not the same.

It looks, okay, Disney is its own thing. But first of all, I mean, we got to get you to Batu. Paul just got so animated. I honestly thought you were going to end the podcast. I didn't know what happened. It was exciting. Six Flags and Disney in the same sentence. No, I do agree with that.

Now, listen, I have become a Disney person since being with Paul. Like, I started off, I think, probably where you are, Jason, which was like, oh, it seems like too much. and it's a headache, and there's so many people and so much going on. But I've kind of turned into a Disney person. And even before having kids, like, I... Well, that's what I was just going to ask.

Because I can totally understand and could see going with children being a very rewarding experience. Yes. You know, and like very fun and infectious fun. I would love to go with kids to Harry Potter World or Galaxy's Edge or, you know, all that stuff. You would love Galaxy's Edge as an adult.

But as an adult, thinking about it going with, like, other adults or something like that, it just doesn't, And like I said, it doesn't, like, that's not one of my, it doesn't interest me all that much. Theme parks in general. So you don't like going on rides? Not particularly. I mean, I will, you know, but I'm not a... I want to change your mind.

I want to change your mind. I want to change your mind. Because I think you would specifically enjoy some of the things at the Marvel campus. I think that you would, you know, they have a PIMS food laboratory where everything is either very, very, very big or very small. They, but, but, too, is... I want some of that blue milk. I want some of that blue milk is good. I think the green milk is a little bit better.

Okay, well, there's so much to get into there. Here's what I was to say. Here's what I was to say to all of you, which is when I see a movie like this, the way I approach it is this. I can sit there and I can try to make sense of this film as if it is supposed to make sense. Or, and this is maybe a terrible analogy,

but I'll say this, it's as if the plane is going down. And when they say, oh, everybody, make sure you buckle up because the plane is going down, I'm going to be like, let me unbuckle my seatbelt because there's no way I'm getting out of this. So let me fly around this cabin because I'd rather be shooting up and down in a... Wait, you think you have a choice in that matter?

So you're going to unbuckle your seatbelt. Yep. Yep. But Paul, I just want to make sure you understand. You might cause irreparable damage to other people in the plane. I'm making a judgment call that we're all going down. So why not die with like my. Like, you know, my elbow. Like a pinball in a pinball machine.

Like, like, if, if the thing is, in 25 seconds, we're all going to be dead, why not just go out with some, I don't want to be, like, head into knees? Okay. Interesting. Even though that might, you know, might help to survive. That's not going to save anything. Here's, I feel like when I, when I watch these movies, like, if Sully, I wouldn't do it if, like, we were in a Sully situation.

But you don't, I don't think, I don't think the pilot. Let's come on and say, hello, folks. So we're in a Sully scenario. So we're going to be okay. I think I would be able to judge it. I would be able to judge it. We're in a all hope is lost. So feel free to unbuckle and pinball around the couch.

Whatever way you want to go out right now. It's delus choice. This is yours. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know what they say. You know what? We're declaring this is there are no rules.

If you want to take your mask off, you can. If the back of that fuselage popped off like in, lost. I'm unbuckling, baby. Let's go. If you want to go in the bathroom barefoot, go right ahead, you monsters. Here's what I'll say to you. If I saw we were going to nose dive and, like, a part of the plan was coming off, I would

maybe take my chance in unbuckling and trying to fly out into the air. Yeah. Oh. Whoa. I'm just saying, I'm not. Wait. You want to hear the funniest story. I thought June.

I thought June and I were united in thinking Paul's choice was insane. And then June, you just said, you think. You might be able to fly out of the plane and fly in air. Who is team Fred now? Who's team Fred now? And who's team sanity? You think you might be able to wonder woman this? Yes, if I could grab a couple blankets.

A blanket, blanket? Wait, you think you're going to have a couple blankets and create a squirrel suit? A flying squirrel suit? That's what I'm a squirrel suit. Yeah. Holy shit. If I knew we were like, okay, we're probably heading into like a nose dive. like there's no way this plane is landing.

I might take my chances that way. Yeah. I might. Wow. Wow. So the funniest stories of. Team sanity come back up. So Casey Wilson's dad told me once that, that, and then we'll get back to the movie

eventually, but. Do we need to? I'd rather have, frankly, I'd rather have this conversation. So she told me that there was, her dad was on a flight from like, D.C. to New York. Really, really quick flight. And sometimes they fly low and hit a ton of turbulence. There was a storm. There's a guy in a business.

suit who's sitting there. Now, the flight janitors can't get up and it's a short flight, but he's having a full panic attack and gets up out of his seat on buckles like Paul and just starts heading toward the exit door screaming. I got to get out of here. Got to get out of here. Oh, no. And the flight attendants and other passengers have to restrain him to the ground.

Wow. And there's a flageant that keeps on screaming. at him like, sir, you're on a plane. Like, there's nowhere to go. But he was just fully in a panic spiral, screaming like, God. Well, I'm not even CC. I'm being much more deliberative. I'm just being like, like, that's what I feel like I would be like at Disneyland.

I feel like I would be running towards exit screaming. I got to get out of here. So listen, it is hard to go during the pandemic now because there's no real refuge. Like, there's no. I only go to Disney because the way Paul does Disney and Paul has an energy level that's not normal for like, tell them, tell them how I took the kids. What did I do with the kids? Well, so we went the first day we went and it was really fun. We came back from our vacation and the kids thought they were

going home and we like left LAX and surprised them by turning into Disney. So they were just like stunned and it was really, really special. But so we get there tonight. The next morning we wake up and it's Like we're going into the park. Yeah. But we like we stay at the, what is it called? Grand California. Yeah, Grand California. Yeah.

And it's like a nice hotel at Disney, but I need that space to go back to. Right. You need like you need what the kids need like the or what younger kids need at Disney, like a nap time. Like you're like a like a refuge. Yeah. Yeah. I do. I do.

And I need to be in like a quiet room, quiet dark room and be quiet. I felt like and I didn't say this to you in the. I didn't say this to you in real life, but I'm going to say it to you now in the podcast and see how this lands. But to be clear, this is real life. Yes. Oh, yeah.

Okay. That I felt like you co-opted our youngest to enjoy that trip where he may not have needed that. Like, he may not have needed that retreat. But I feel like he was caught up in it because the next day when I was with him, he said to me multiple times, I'm not tired.

Well, maybe that's because, so the next day, I did one. one day and then I came back because I had something to do and I left really early in the morning. Paul took the kid by himself for Disney and like literally left the hotel room at like 9 a.m. And they got back to our home, never went back to that hotel room at like 10. Okay? So wait, that's two days in the park or just the one?

Two days in the park. Two days in the park. But Paul did a full day in the park with him by himself and they never went back to rest. Now, I also feel I'm going to say this about men in general and I know this is a generalization, but men don't appreciate rest as much as women do. I'll buy that. Yes, I do. I'll be honest.

I love that rest, baby. Yeah, I think we've been your difference, Jason. But like, I need to, there's only so much kind of public facing I can do. And then I need to go get quiet. Yeah, no, I need to shut it down. I believe myself, and June was going to laugh real hard here, but I believe myself to be an introverted extrovert. my want is to be

shut down. You said an introverted extrovert? Yes. Okay, got it. Yeah, like my want to be. Yeah, like my want is to be back home. My want is to, but when I'm out, I'm like, well, now I'm out. Now I'm going to go out.

But I, but when I'm out and I feel like a little tinge or pull, I'll pull the rip court. Like, I fight with that a lot internally. Like going home versus going out. Oh, but by the way, this is why I think our youngest didn't need a rest because Paul sent me a picture of him. from like his day alone with the boys at breakfast time and they were sitting outside of Starbucks and he was drinking basically like a brownie Sunday. It was a chocolate milk.

It was a chocolate milk. He's not tired. He's high as a kite. He's having a red eye. Yeah. It's chocolate. Anyway, Jason, I am curious what you'd think of Disney. And it would be fun to go, you know, on an off.

Well, maybe we can do it for the show somehow. That would be fun. I would love. We should bring a recorder and we'll take breaks. every like hour or so when we could check in I would love to do that. Now, what I was saying

with my airplane analogy was I think a movie like this really pays off much bigger dividends if you are dipping in, dipping out, feeling like I don't need

to understand it because when you loosen yourself into it, like if I try to make sense of this, I'm going to be beside myself. I was as loose as I could get. Well, I know you were, but you get sleepy,

my feeling is I try, and meet the movie on its, on its terms. Okay. You know what I mean? Like, knowing what we're talking, knowing, like, my expectations with the movies that we do are that things are going to be wrong, off, weird, whatever. So I try and come to it being like, my expectations are that's what's in store for me. Right.

This movie, though, was so uncomfortable and so unsettling that I couldn't, to be inside of it felt awful. Well, to be inside of this province. world, this New England world that looks like my hometown, that looks like places and things I know, and then have it be full, chalk, chalk full of

the broadest southern accents I've ever heard in my life. How many deep south people? Like chalk? Chalkful? And I was also like, well, you said this movie is chalk and I was like, yeah, that it is chalk. It is chalk. This movie is a chalk. And I don't know why it is, but it is.

It's chalky. I would say all these performers oddly look alike. Like there were moments where I was like, I agree. I was like the cop kind of looks like the other husband and Ryan O'Neill kind of looks at the cop. And at one point I was like, is that even Ryan O'Neill?

I'm not even sure anymore. I will say this though. I just know I don't like any of them. That's all I know. If you told me they shot this movie over the course of 11 years, I would believe you because sometimes they look young, sometimes they look old.

Like there's no consistency. Like the scenes in which he's talking with his father and recounting the events of the movie. Oh, there's a spine. Yeah, there's a spine of the movie where Ryan O'Neill, present tense Ryan O'Neill, is sitting talking to his father, and they are just flashing back,

which is the body of the movie, is these long flashbacks. Is it, though, because then we get caught up to that time, and we got about 45 more minutes left to the movie. Exactly, yes. The third act is that is present, yes. But there are flashbacks in the flashbacks as well. Yes. But here's the one thing.

I wrote that down. When they flashbacks. When they flash back to he's a bartender, I was like, oh, no. A flashback inside of a flashback? Fuck this movie. Also multiple voiceover narrators. Multiple narrators. Here's a thing.

God damn. There's so much. There's so much here. Because I did say this is a, you know, it's directed by Norman Miller, who is a, you know, a Pulitzer Prize. winning author. I've read multiple Norman Mailer books and amazing, right? But this is a book that he wrote

so he adapted it. So you would think that he would have the best handle on this material. Robert Town, who wrote Chinatown, comes and consults on this. You think... Produced by Francis Ford Coppola. You think at any point someone would say, hey, we don't understand the plot.

This movie was produced by Francis Ford Coppola. This movie was produced by Francis Ford Coppola. I mean, just in the credits, I saw that. Well, this movie premieres at Can. Wow. Like, yeah, this movie premieres at Cannes out of competition, but, so I guess maybe that doesn't count. But can I just show you?

Not in the same, it doesn't have the same weight, but even still, that's fucking nuts. When it premieres a can, the reaction is not good. And so all of a sudden, you think, this is how America met this film. So this is the trailer. Anyone can call pause at any point, but I want to show you the trailer for this film because I think I've never seen anything like this and we'll just roll it right in. Here we go.

I just received the comment cards from the first screening of my new film, Tough Guys Don't Dance. Bold, innovative, wonderful. Stinks. Why are we talking about that? We can't let it hang out here. Where else can we? A movie not to miss.

Giant death orgy with lots of maniacs. Oh, man. Oh, God. Oh, man. Nothing rottenness happened. One of the best and most original films I've ever seen. It was brilliant. One of the worst ever.

My grandmother could do better. I agree. You agree on what? Excellent, crazy entertainment. Very funny. Gross. Sleasy. Garbage.

There was no small job. Quick turn. a plot enjoyed having to think. Whoever wrote this has never read a good book. You think it's simple? Well, here go ahead. You pull the trigger.

Being set up. Set it for what? Murder one. Wow. So Norman Mailer basically sets up his own movie by saying like, I don't know. I like that he embraced

the negative reviews and made it part of the promotional campaign because it is, I agree with all the negative. reviews and what they it does stink it is whoever wrote it hasn't read a good book i don't know it was this movie this movie is ryan o'neill and then a bunch of people who are basically doing a blanche dubois uh impression from from this is right this is the one thing i wanted to say uh early on but i think it's a perfect time now when i write what i often do is i keep open another document

and as i'm cutting through things i will cut things out of like a document and I'll throw it into like a junk bin file, just in case I want to go back to it. And what this whole script felt like was like Tennessee Williams junk bin for streetcar named desire. Like it was sort of like, this is all lines that could have felt like it was so weird. Well, the majority of the,

I mean, it's so, but it's so, uh, it's infuriating. Like there, it was just infuriating. And I got to tell you, fuck Norman Miller.

I think the guy's, uh, homophobic, sexist fucking maniac. And I am so disgusted by him. And racist. And racist and homophobic. All sorts of things. All sorts of things.

And like, it's all on display in this film. From the jump. Yeah. This opening scene with his dad. Your hair. Yeah. It went quick. Kimmel must be bad.

Yeah, I quit. I noticed. I was a disgrace. Well, what are your chances, big fella? Yeah, son. Who to fucking say? I handle everything but the middle of the night. Where's your wife?

Patty Lorraine took off November 1st, 28 days ago. You married the wrong girl, that's all. Should have married the other one. I thought you liked Patty Lorraine. I liked her guts. But certain dames ought to wear a T-shirt that says, hang around, I'll make a cuck, suckabri. Thanks.

I mean, that introduction, it's like, it feels like people were getting into fist fights in between takes of this movie. Okay. So can I talk about something? Yes. Now I want to talk about something. And just because you showed the Norman Mailer reviews thing that is pretty great. There is, everybody can find it on YouTube. Norman Mailer made another movie called Madehead.

What? That's his first movie. Yes, that stars a young rip-torn, okay? I thought this is one-in-a-half-hage. There's a 10-minute clip on YouTube. that we will maybe link to or you can find. Just Norman Mailer, Rip Torn, Google it on YouTube, or YouTube search it. And it is a footage, it's behind the scenes footage that is being shot while they're shooting a scene.

Rip Torn has lost his mind and he attacks a shirtless Norman Mail. He attacks Norman Mailer with a hammer and hits Norman and all their families are around because all their families are there shooting. They're out in a field. He attacks Norman Mailer with a hammer. And then Rip Torn is like, I'm you. I'm you. Yeah. Yeah.

And Norman Mailer at a certain point is kind of like, I got to admit, this is exactly what the character would have done. They're so inside of this kind of craziness. There are children crying, screaming, no, no. They've just watched their father be attacked by a Rip Torn who looks like he's, it looks like documentary footage from like like a true crime story. Rip Torn looks like a deranged murderer. He's holding a hammer, bloodied from hitting Norman Mailer in the head with a hammer.

It's fucking nuts. So here's Norman Mailer is shirtless. Riptorn. That's Riptorn. Norman. They're going on her. No, baby. No, baby.

You know you trust me. You trust me. You trust me. You trust me. You trust me. You trust me. Come on. I'll trust you. You trust me. All right. All right. Promise? Promise? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry, Dad. I'm sorry, Daddy. I'm sorry, Daddy. I have something to get you. No, no. No. Hey! Were you cut this fucking out?

Okay. This is amazing. It's a 10 minutes long. That movie had, 45 hours. They had a 45-hour cut that they had to get down to 110 minutes. And someone was shot on that movie, and yet they financed him for another movie. There's a part of it where Rip Torn's going, you're not Mailer. I'm Mailer. I'm you. I'm you, Daddy.

And it is, and his eyes are, it is terrifying. Oh, my God. I thought this was his one and only. No, no, no. Although, is, I don't know, are there any more? I actually don't know that. I think it's, I think it's this one, because he, uh, he got a bunch of Razzies for this one. Wow, Razzies were already, how long have the Razzies been around?

In 1987. So this is the year where Ishtar. Oh, so this is later than I thought, yeah. This is the year, it was nominated for seven Golden Raspberry Awards. Uh, it won worst director, but it tied with Elaine May for Ishtar, which I think if you go back, you'll find that Ishtar was unfairly maligned. for whatever reason. It's actually a fine, if not a capable film in many ways.

I think it got cooked for reasons that were not necessarily valid. It is a perfectly good movie. It just was very expensive. That's what it was. But this movie starts in a weird way, because you said it, like 10 minutes of the scenes, but then it starts with a home invasion that we don't necessarily hear. It's like, I guess not a home invasion, but like there's a moment. Oh, you mean when his dad comes?

Well, yeah, but... Yes, so I guess like it's a weird thing to start a film with a noise where your character enters into it because I feel like the tension is, oh, I've just come, whatever it is, I just woke up. Like, he, it immediately jumps into a very weird narrative switch. That's when I knew I should unbuckle my safety belt and just start ping ponging around here. Because I was like, okay. Well, yeah, because so what happens is we start with Ryan O'Neill in bed. He hears the.

tea kettle going off, whistling. Which doesn't seem odd because... Which is not a scary sound, but he picks up a crowbar nonetheless and starts creeping through. And what you realize later is the last five days have been a series of physical attacks that he's been through with various people. So later we understand why he was nervous that someone was in the house. But right now, we have no idea what's going on.

In the language of film to have someone waking up to a... tea kettle going off, that would be the normal thing. Yes. Well, not if you lived alone. Yeah. But we don't know anything about this character. We don't know any of that. I'm saying the first image we have of him is waking up in a bed.

Like, oh, he could be married. This could be a comedy. We don't know anything. So just having someone in a bed with a tea kettle going off. Like, if a window smashed, I get it. I get it. I could talk forever about the house party where his wife plays the trumpet, the seance. By the way, this was shot in Norman Mailer's house.

I mean, of course it was. I'm not surprised even remotely to hear that. I wrote, this movie is bizarre. The room makes more sense. Like, what is this story? He goes, what Ryan O'Neill says about his wife at one point, she was the largest addiction of my life. And he's a guy who goes to prison for selling coke.

It's like, there's more coke done in this movie than I think in Bright Lights Big City. This is absolute insanity. I was also, like, confused. I want to talk about that. heads, the women's heads that were buried in a forest under a rock. Well, a one woman and one man, right? See, that's what I want to talk about.

I think both heads were the women's heads. Yes. Wait, what happened to the old man then? The man was killed as well, but his, I don't think he was decapitated. So his body's in the trunk rotting. Correct. Yes. And then the two women were decapitated.

But at one point, Jason, and I think clearly Paul was a little confused about this too. Well, because we now know he's barely watching the movie. I'm in. I know it's a whole... And I was confused when the clippers showed up. And Game 7 and, yeah. And Kyrie was there. I don't know.

I don't know if I'm... Hopefully, God, if we be so lucky. So I... Okay, so I knew there was blonde hair on the first head. And he was freaked out, right? So he left that head there. Got that. Because it could have been either head.

Then he later is. saying to himself, whose head was it? Whose head was it? Well, he's not saying it to himself, Jason. That voiceover is a woman's voice saying, whose head is that? Whose head is that? I'm sorry, you're right. Because there is.

There's lots of, exactly what June just did. There's lots of whispering in the soundtrack. Well, I mean, who's cackling at the end of the film? We'll never know. Because this is a ghost movie? But is this a thing? I know we've talked about this on the show, and people have referenced this a bunch. We talked about this idea, like, when you're a kid, you find porn.

in the woods and that was how you would find like a porno magazine or something like that. But in this is was it a thing to hide your drugs like in a little like And that's what's going to say because it's just marijuana He's hiding there. Yeah.

He's a co- I don't know where the cocaine was but doesn't seem to be protected the same way that that marijuana is casual. Here's what I never understood. They seem to intimate repeatedly that Ryan O'Neill is the cocaine connection.

that they have the money and that they're saying he's going to be the guy that gets the Coke. But I never see that that the movie never shows him as that go-between. And it seems like they're setting him up to take the fall for the murders. I think that they're setting him up to be the take the fall because they have the in with the Coke dealers. And the big plan was to sell what, like $2 million of Coke to get $10 million of money or they're running. No, they had the money. They had $2 million from that Southern guy. Right.

Again, Provincetown is populated entirely by people from the deep south. I was like, I was going to say, is this, is this a town that is populated by character actors from community theater? Because everyone in this movie, I mean, that's southern accent. The southern guy, the richy rich southern guy who's like, you don't understand. It's hard to be, have a two million dollar. What am I going to do? By, baby, what do you want to do, baby, about it for the hay. I was like, we got to.

play a clip of that woman, that woman playing the woman who talks about her vaginal hair and playing a trumpet. To be clear, she does not, does she say vaginal no, I was, I didn't want to say pussy, yeah. She says, pussy hair. Yeah, all right, I was trying to be classy.

I think, I'll be honest. As far as I'm concerned, vaginal hair is way worse. It's really a lot worse. When you get more clinical with it, it's just... I should have said pubic hair, yeah. Vaginal hair is not even really a thing. Lady, you sound like a whip. Well, honey, I am a witch.

Good blondes are. You're not a real blonde. My pussy hair was bright gold in high school until I went out and scotched in with the football team. That party where she goes, the doorbell rang. She goes, that must be my boyfriend and just takes off her outfit. People are ripping off their clothes like NBA stars ripping up their warm. ripping off their warm-ups. It's like everybody has ripaway clothing.

It is, she strips just to answer the door because she says it must be my boyfriend. And then it's not. And, like, Jason, is that the vibe? Like, this is what was interesting to me, too. Like, to me, that's not the vibe of that part of the country. Am I wrong? I, it did not. Well, I mean, the party was full of Southerners.

So maybe they were bringing, maybe they were bringing that southern style to, to Provincetown is like, you know, the Cape. basically. Yeah, I always think of it as a bit more like upper crust and stiff. Well, that's why the seance made it sense because they're into witches and stuff like that. They burned witches to the stake, right? That's why they're doing the sands. That's not necessarily in that same area, but sure, sure, sure. No, it made no sense that they were in Provincetown.

Like, it would have made much more sense to me if this movie was set in Savannah. You know why it's in Provincetown? Because Norman Mailer is like, let's shoot at my house so I don't have to like go anywhere. Absolutely. Absolutely. that makes total sense now that you say that. But it made no sense to me, like how big and broad all the characters were. But also similar.

Like they were all, yes, they were big and broad, but there was no, like, I couldn't really tell you the difference between like Penn Gillette's character as the preacher. Holy cow. The Swinger preacher. And also like that, the main killer, I think at the end, that guy. And then the police chief, like they all bled into. to each other. The character that I wanted to see more of who I thought was the most defined was the adult film star who comes to town. Well, she was incredible. She's one of the women that's murdered though. Yes, but I mean, I feel like we didn't get enough time with her. And,

and you get this amazing scene with her right at the, the gecko. Tell us a joke. What makes surgeons happy? What? To cut people up and get paid for it. That's happiness. You look like one of those method actors that plays a killer. Don't say that. Why not? Because I could kill you. I feel demented tonight. In what way demented?

I could fuck your woman right in front of you. Only if the lady agrees. Now, is that a real joke, or are they just all coked up? I don't... I mean, like, it has the structure of a joke, but it is not, like, it's not inherently funny. like the idea being like most people who cut people up like they're crazy murderers. But with surgeons, they cut people up and they get paid for it. But the way he told it, he felt like Christian Bailan American Psycho.

Like he didn't tell it with any joy. It was like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Oh, geez. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, and that's where I think the movie is trying to like fuck with us a little bit where we're supposed to think, like, oh, is he, is he a killer? Like, did he do this? Ryan O'Neill shouldn't even be in this town. He doesn't fit. Like, I don't buy him as this

character. I don't buy him as a guy on zipping his pants. I don't buy, I don't buy any, like, talk about miscast. I don't agree him. I don't, I don't believe him as a Coke dealer who goes to prison for three years. No. I don't believe him as the local marijuana dealer who's like kind of a Gigolo. I don't agree. I don't believe in any of this. Oh, and I fundamentally don't believe in him as what he is, which is the Norman Mailer stand in, the writer. He's not, he's not mailer-esque in any way, shape, or form. He's not, he's supposed to be a writer, you know, like, that's his thing. He's a failed writer or whatever. Meanwhile, you've got, like, you've got the police officer who's married to his, who's married to Ryan O'Neill's ex-wife, who's

played by Isabella Rosalini, who is, as always, incredible and just, like, fantastic, but has so little to do, and I feel terrible that she's, like, just kind of shunt it around. But the speech that that guy gives when he goes, I'm a law enforcement officer, and it turns me on. Like, everybody in this movie has a speech about how this thing, this horrible thing they do, makes them horny. This movie wants to fuck. I mean, this movie is.

Teddy or rain when she shoots the other blonde woman gets like horny and they fuck afterwards. It's crazy. I mean, look, that honestly, I have to say that cuck holding scene was so disturbing to me and not because it was graphic. And there are more graphic sex scenes. But just to have that man just crying like, why won't you listen to me? No one listens to me. Listen to me. Like, and it's like on the side of the, like, oh, no, let me speak.

It was, let me speak. let me speak. He's crying. Why wouldn't he walk away? And I mean, this movie is so, I mean, by the way, it's aggressively homophobic. I mean, that's the other thing, too. It's like, it is like, it's why it was kind of like jaw dropping in that way. Like, yeah, foof.

In a way that it felt like performative masculinity. But that's Norman Miller. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's kind of like who. I'm leveling that against. It's really like, it's Mailer really trying,

in the mouth of every character. Every character is homophobic to another character in some way shape of form. But yet they would fuck them all. Every character would fuck each other regardless of them. And do. And most of them do, you know. Yes. And what's hilarious about that to me is like,

Norman Mailer's giving every character of that platform, but also just so many characters. It's like, I feel like there were three extra characters that could have, like there were three. men in this movie who you could cut out and not miss at all. Or just collapse them into one. Yes. Yeah.

You could. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, here's the thing too that happens. Like there's a scene in this movie where he gets in his Jeep and he has his dog. He has a dog with him. When does that dog come to play? And then the dog in that scene, the dog is murdered.

So I was like, when has he? First of all, we're like more than an hour into the movie. Since when does he have a dog? We've never seen him have a dog yet. And yet it seems like it's like a John Wick moment in the middle of the movie. In the middle of the movie. So he's like, you killed my dear, that's your knife. He says that's your knife in my dog.

Oh my God. I love that the guy, the Southern guy, Wardley. Oh, yeah. He's like, he just wants to, he's just like, he just wants to throw sick parties. He's like, he's got a gun on Ryan O'Neill and he's like, we're going to throw the biggest parties. this world has ever seen. Like, his goal in getting rich off of the Coke money is just to throw better parties. I mean, look, not a bad goal, not a bad goal at all.

I mean, kind of dog. And by the way, the thugs rolling up in a white Rolls-Royce, like these, like, like, first of all, not undercover at all. Aggressively, like, well, what car they were driving? Oh, white Rolls-Royce. Like, there's no. I would also believe it if you said that was Norman Mailers. car. I would believe it if everything in this movie was just like

his. Oh my God. You know? He drove a white rolls race. Oh, I would 100% believe that. I wrote in my, uh, I wrote in my notes. I feel like I'm in an active blackout. Oh, he's so terrible. Wait, there are a couple things in here, too, and maybe I don't want to be

prudish, but the cop, when he's talking about his job and what he loves about his job. You don't want to be prudish? said the man who said, vaginal hair. Vaginal hair. I don't want to be prudish. Because I was trying to be very respectful of the vaginal. Uh, the, uh, when, when he, when he goes, he wrote like, I like, I like two humps a day.

And like, like, he likes to, he needs to fuck two, he goes, I fuck two women a day. Two different women. Two different women. Yeah. So every day he has to fuck two different women. I guess, one of them is his wife. Isabella Rosalini. And one is, we now know is Ryan O'Neill's ex-wife.

And then doesn't Isabella Rosalini say at one point, like, I need to make out or he likes to make out five times a day. Like she also equates a number with how much there. I don't remember that. I thought she had like a line where she says like, he likes to make out five times a day. Well, everybody in the movie, I don't know if you guys found this jarring either. Everybody in the movie monologues. Like there's not a lot of like, there's not a lot of back and forth.

It's not conversational. Everybody is like tease someone up for a monologue, a proper like big. Like, let me tell you, uh, uh, type of thing. And you, it really is, it's exhausting. Yeah. Because it's in, none of it is in, none of it helps. Usually when a character monologues, it's an exposition dump. It's helping you understand information.

It's giving you context or helping you underground the movie or whatever. But these monologues are fucking nuts. Oh, they're absolutely crazy. When, when that guy, when that police officer then has a stroke or has a heart attack or has his mouth. And I just, like, his mouth is half paralyzed.

Like, what the fuck was going on? I don't know. And then were they killing him at the end? Was that like a mercy kill where they were like, this is no life? Let's put him out of his misery. I didn't quite understand that.

I reround the section because I was like, I need to understand exactly what is going on here. And I believe, if I am correct, he hit his head into the wall so many times that he created his own stroke. Like, it's like, so if you bang your head against the wall enough times, you can have your own stroke.

Because he goes bang, bang, he's fine, third bang, he's, whew, uh, and he almost like he's getting electrician. Exactly what would happen to you, like ping ponging around an airplane after you on the buckle. Yeah, exactly. Who cares? I'm dead. I'm dead.

And, uh, although that guy survived. He did survive. And the first thing he said was, ah, fucked better than you. Your womb is broken. Now, by the way, who cares if her womb was broken because he clearly doesn't want to procreate. Like, like, he or like, you might have a picture with those two kids, his brother's children. This is me when he just holds up the... So, all of that shit was so weird.

Also, and this was featured in the trailer that you played earlier, Paul, but I wanted to call it out at the end when they are dumped, when Ryan O'Neill and his father are dumping all of the bodies into the ocean that are the result of all of the many different crosses and double crosses that have happened in this movie. which are impossible to map because they don't make any sense. It is to pomp and circumstance. Oh. It is, they are only playing pomp and circumstance. It's as if they are graduating from high school. Do, do, do, do, do. Yeah, do, do.

So today, graduates, as we go out into that great big world, we think to ourselves, you know what I mean? That's what it seems like, but instead they're dumping bodies into the ocean. And they're talking about the cure of cancer. Just hear a clip of that. Hey, you know something? I'm taking it as more than I thought I would. You've been in the wrong occupation all these years.

This has got to be the answer to cancer. Maybe that's why cancer costs so much to cure. My eyes say, it's schizophrenia is the cure of the cancer. Cancer is probably the cure of schizophrenia. That whole thing, it's like, it's very writerly. And I think like we're talking about these monologues are internal monologues

and internal monologues work in novels because it's giving you, you're getting moments. And I think like when you try to put all that outside, it is, it just becomes really, every character becomes completely insane. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And well, I mean, to be fair, every character in this movie is completely insane. Like this is, there is nobody save, perhaps Ryan. and O'Neill's father, who is so unfazed and unflappable in the face of multiple decapitations and murders, that it is absolutely bananas. Can I tell you my theory? Yeah.

He is not real. You think he's a Tyler Durdon situation? Yes, I do. I have a very strong theory on this. When I meditated last night after this movie to think, I was like... Wait, wait a second. Wait, back on. No, meditated on.

Not I didn't. I sat with the movie and I really thought about what I just thought. You know what? I need to go into a meditative state in order to process this movie. I was like, oh, that's smart. That's interesting. I picture you like, it's like an episode of Sherlock where you go into the movie. I went into my mind, my mind.

Your mind palace, your memory palace. And I was thinking, I was like, I think he's not real. I think he is like this aggressive. Because Ryan O'Neill is a, here's what I'll say in the terms of Norman Mailer. and probably even not as aggressive than normally. He's not a man's man's man. So he needs a man's man's man to take care of. It's a man's business.

So he creates this character who can do all the things that he wants to do because no one else really sees him. Nobody else. You're right. Nobody else interacts with him. Yeah. And he... Oh, so he...

Okay. So now I'm going to, I'm going to yes and your theory into his dad lost his battle with cancer. Yes. And now Ryan O'Neill... In his time of need, five days into the insanity of his wife leaving him, people starting to turn up dead and realizing that he's being framed for murder, he needs the help of his father who seems to be like an ex-cop or something. He has like explanations as to what happened and who shot who and how and this one died from this

and this one died from that. He seems to have knowledge so that he takes that and populates it into, yeah, maybe, maybe. June? I honestly I mean you're giving the movie way more credit For originality Maybe I

Hmm Well so I thought at one point What's interesting about that is I thought at one point He was going to be the killer And I was like Oh we're leading there Like we must be leading back to his father I think it's definitely possible

Like I was craving so badly some. I knew pretty early on that we were in a nosedive in terms of plot and that I wasn't going to be able to find my way out. So much so that when the hotel worker, like the clerk arrived at Ryan O'Neill's house to ask if he knew this couple because they left their car in the hotel, I was relieved to just understand the scene. understand like, oh, a car's been left there. He's worried.

He's trying to figure out where these people are. He knows he's been with them the night before because I was so lost. He's the only responsible person in this town. Yes. But Paul, I think it's an interesting theory. And I also think that it gives the movie way too much credit. If that is true, like if you said to me like, oh, actually that is true, it's in book. I would be like, oh, that's a more interesting story. It's just not in here. You really have to

like look for it to find out that. That's going to lead into my next thing. Let's start a book club and this lets us be the first book and we'll come back next week. I will never return to this. I will not. So it's interesting. I knew we were in trouble when I saw the title. When I saw on my calendar like watched, I had eight o'clock night before Thursday. How did this get made? watch tough guys don't dance. And I was like, uh, what's this?

And then the credit started and I seen Norman Mailer and I'm like, what is this now? And then it unfolded. And it was, it was just horrible, you guys. Horrible.

I hated it. I hated it. By the way, the title of this thing, Roger Donahue, was a prize fighter who was thanked by Norman Mailer in the film because he told him

an anecdote that resulted in the title. I guess Frank Costello, the murder ink boss, and his gorgeous girlfriend, greet three champion boxers in the Stork Club. And Costello demands that each of these boxers dance with his woman. And then each of the boxers nervously complies. And then the last boxer, Willie Pepp, you know, goes, well, why don't you dance, Mr. Costello? And Costello goes, tough guys don't dance. And that's how it came.

But also what a bizarre story that is. is too. Like, again, a cuck holding of these men. Like, you guys think you're tough. I'm going to make you dance for me and then tell you you're not so tough. I mean, this is a lot of, you know, there's a lot of hammer hits. So in this movie. There's a lot of toxic masculinity on display inside this movie, for sure. I also just want to take a moment to talk about some of the amazing dialogue. Like, there was a thing where it was like, if you run a potato farm and you run to a potato market, you won't have enough potatoes to run a factory. I'm like, wait, what the fuck is that? Or like, where they're like, uh, hey, did you make a puddle in your pants? Like,

There was like some jazzy, like, there was some like jazz. It's like when Back to the Future 2 when they go there like, hey, Bojo. I'm like, oh, he created a whole language in this movie that he's like, I think. And I know you started the show with this, but I really cannot stress enough that if you are, if you are part of the audience of this podcast that does not listen or rather does not watch the movies ahead of time or maybe doesn't watch the movies. at least seek out the clip of the, oh, God, oh, man. We got to play. We got to play. It's too. This is, so Ryan O'Neill gets a letter from Isabella Rosalini and she makes him promise to read it alone when he's alone, not with her present. So he goes to the beach and he reads it and then this happens. And by the way, I couldn't understand what the letter was actually

saying. June and I rewound it three times because her accent is definitely playing a part of it. But then there's also like the minute she says, because I did eventually figure it out, murder them. We have to murder my husband. A bird squawks. I wish you had shared that with me. Well, you were asleep when I figured it out. When I figured it out was like that. That would be hard. She's saying my husband and your wife are sleeping or having an affair, right? And that we have to kill them. They're behind. They're there in cahoots to try and frame, whatever, frame you or whatever. So we have to kill them basically before they get you. Yeah, but when she says, like, kill them, I swear, a bird squawks.

So you're hearing surf, sand, voiceover, and a bird squawking over a very, like, we were around it three times. And it was June and I both trying to listen and be like, what, what's that? My husband is having an affair with your wife. I don't think we should talk about it. Because you're prepared to kill them. Oh, man. Oh, God. Oh, man.

Oh, man. Oh, man. Oh, God. Oh, man. Apparently that wrecked the relationship between Ryan O'Neill and Norman Miller because I guess Norman Miller, and I've read a couple things now, really love the bad acting. And I think he edged it. Like, he was like, yeah, more of that.

Like, so he fed people into it. So, like, Ryan O'Neill was like, oh, he totally betrayed me. Like, he fucked me over. And I think that, like, people just felt like Ryan, when Norman Miller talks about it, like, there's a disdain for these actors. Like, oh, I thought the bad acting were so great. great. Like, he's like, he's a non-filmmaker.

He's an author making a film commenting on film and terrible act. It's like, it's too many levels are at play, I think. Oh, my God. I mean, it's, it is. I want to say it's interesting to watch. It's just not. I mean, honestly, yeah, I wouldn't recommend that you go watch it, even though, you know, there's people out there that might have a different opinion.

So now it is time for second opinions. What is the message? Heart is subjective. I need a second opinion. Thank you, John Luzwa. These are five-star reviews. I didn't really find many, oh, I shouldn't say me,

Nate Kylie. By the way, also a big thank you to Averill Halley for bringing this film into our lives, or I guess, a lawsuit to Averill for bringing this in. Jason and June will be, I hope you have a lawyer.

But Nate Kylie did some pretty good research here. There are not many earnest ones, but I'll read you, I'll read you this one from Roy Clark. Okay. So it is the title, A Very Mailer movie, as in great,

embellished with speed bumps. When classmates in the 60s were reading Salinger, I started reading Mailer, and I haven't stopped until he died last week. Happily, I've read and collected all but a few of his titles. I've enjoyed his film translation of, Tough Guys Don't Dance, because I've read and enjoyed and learned

from the book learned. Now I guess it's rereading time. This film is Mailer as the book, with a strong character-driven plot drawn with the brilliance and pomposity of Mailer's famous for. Personally, I like his departure from expected forms, taking risks, which might prove embarrassing, flowing or stumbling. The flow of tough guys is audaciously, Mailer, brilliant, funny on purpose, or an egotistical misstep, artistically insightful or hung over and off. It's, way up with acknowledged smartness, and it's an entertaining flick. It's a learning experience as well as entertainment in terms of the human experience, as well as film writing and directing.

Somehow the characters seem exactly as I saw them when reading. For a double hit, try reading the book before or after viewing the movie. I've come to reading after viewing for the imagery. It will make an impression and an impressive one. Five stars. And then this is from Stephen Morrow. And you know these are serious because they're using their full name. And this is it. I still maintain this has some of the best dialogue in a movie you'll ever find, such as Never Call an Italian Small Potatoes. He was way ahead of the curve in reintroducing noir again into film culture.

Of course, I'm biased since I was fortunate to have worked with Norman on it. What? Yeah, you are biased. Wait. But you, you know, but can you think of a movie of more recent vintage that has more than one memorable line. This is 1987. I would say this is the height of catchphrases.

But maybe just one, I don't know. Just explosions of Matsugur. R.I.P. Norman Mailer. They don't make them like that anymore. Can you imagine you're Isabella Rosalini. The year prior you are in Blue Velt. Yep. Like an incredible movie

that is a noir, that is an unbelievable film. And then you are in this. That's a wild back-to-back two years. Right, yeah, yi. The budget of this was 5 million or 10 million,

depending on who you believe. Los Angeles Times says 5, spy magazine says 10. It grossed $8,000. The top three films of 87 are Beverly Hills Cop 2, platoon and fatal attraction.

It doesn't feel like it's a contemporary of that at all. It was beaten by Running Man, Jaws the Revenge, over the top, and prom night, too. I think we know where you both fall on this.

movie about watching it, but I will say this, June, I was wrong. This is the last movie he directed, but he directed four films total, Maidstone Beyond the Law and Wild 90. This is the last movie he directed. So he was quite a prolific filmmaker. I mean, not bad at all. Get four out of the gate like that. But, I mean, to be clear, this is bad.

This is like, and this is, this for me falls into the category of, I would not recommend people watch this. Of course. June, would you recommend that people watch this? It's on YouTube, though. So if you want to like, if you want to peep it or if you want to like watch the oh God, oh no or man scene, like watch that. Or to get a sense of what we're talking to it to watch some of these southern accents. The southern accents are amazing, the scene outside of the church.

But I would also say it is not worth watching. Yeah. I took, again, I had one gummy. I needed more. I think had I been, I'd be curious to see, I mean, I'll never turn it on again, but just like what one and a half, what that would have felt like? Well, June, I think I can answer a little bit of that question for you. Not as it measures in gummies, but as it measures in versions of being impaired by that same substance. I watched this pretty stoned and it was not cool.

See, I'm watching it completely sober and I'm learning about the dad. I'm all into it. And I got to say, we didn't talk about my favorite part of the whole movie, which is the machete on the wall. Yeah, the missing machete. The missing machete on the wall, which is clearly the murder weapon of the decapitated people, but also underneath it, a picture of the man, the cop, holding like a bloody machete, like, ah!

And so many guns. So many guns in that house. When he goes into Isabella Rossellini's house and there is like 30 guns just like at the ready, mounted on the wall in gun racks. on the floor. Like, it is like an armory. Their living room looks like an armory. Maybe what we should do is like, instead of like, we should have our own barometer,

like how many gummies does it take to get through some of these movies? It's sort of like the reverse of rotten tomatoes where it's like it took me, it took me two gummies. It took me three. The only way to enjoy the, yeah. But then, you know, I agree. But then sometimes, like, again, like as stoned as I was, this movie was like, like, again, I wrote, I feel like I'm in an active blackout.

I felt like, I felt like time stopped. I didn't know what was happening. I didn't feel safe. Yeah. You know, it was unsettling to say the least. That felt absolutely great. I felt like I communed with this film. I had no gummies.

I mean, look, I enjoy a Camino gummy, but I, but I had none. And, uh, wait, are you plugging Camino, Camino Gummys? I'm just saying, you know, I'm just saying that... I mean, the Caminoian... Do they do cloning on Camino in Star Wars? Oh, yeah, that's a different kind of... The Bobafet Gumbies are very, very good. But, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.

What a ride. Jason June, anything to plug? Yeah, I've got a couple... I mean, there's a couple of things that are up and about. I'm a voice on a new animated show on Fox called Housebrook. You can watch all of season one now of The Animated Show Invincible that I'm a voice in. It's on Amazon. A fantastic adaptation of Robert Kirkman's comic series.

And then I think as of last week, June 10th on Paramount Plus, The Movie Infinite, guys, if you want to see me playing a character whose only name is The Artisan, Jason. Jason, I am all about Infinite as I got a special. Do I wear eyeliner in this movie? Heavy eyeliner? Do I have a smoky eye and painted black nails? Yes, I do. Am I only referred to as the artisan? Indeed I am.

By the way, we should get together because recently on Black Monday, I think actually coming up this weekend on Black Monday, I am also wearing a smoky eye. And as my character gets deep into 90s club culture in New York City. So, you know, we're men who are not afraid to wear a smoky eye. I will say that I did get a viewing kit for Infinite that came with a whole bunch of fun stuff. You could check out my Instagram. You could see all the different fun treats and things. I didn't get that.

Well, you know, there you go. You know, there you go. I have ends with the Infinite People. I'm very excited to see that, Jason. Also, I would encourage everybody to check out another podcast. I know Paul spends a lot of time promoting his other podcast. Well, guess what? Never promote it.

I don't need to. I have one too. And it's called The Deep Dive. It's with me and Jessica Sinclair. And you can head to anywhere you find your podcast and check it out and subscribe. And also any of our listeners who want to join the Jane Club, head to janeclub. Head to janeclub.com. We have a lot of exciting things going on this summer.

You can use our special head of the Skit Made Code, Jane 50, for half off your first month's subscription. It's so good. And deep dive is fantastic. You know, it's right up there with like the great podcast like on Spooled or Screen Test. Wow. Wait, screen test. What's that? Do you have another podcast? Look, guys, let's not get into it. Is that a podcast you host? Wait, do you have a third podcast? It's a game show. Anyway, so.

That you host? Yeah. Come on. Get with it. Guys. What are you even talking about? It's a spin-off podcast. The movies to game show that you don't need to know anything about. classic films. You have to love films, that's all. Oh, boy. Well, I do love...

You would be great. I want to throw one more plug out to our friends in the band Manikin Pussy. Yes. They have a new EP out. It is called Perfect. It is fantastic. Their music is being used

in the TV, the HBO show, Mayor of East Town. I want to watch the whole thing. I want to watch it with you too. Yeah, let's watch it. So, you know, go and seek that out, watch the show. Support Manikin Pussy.

They're a great band. I will also say that I mean, I know I plugged briefly Black Monday, but I will say that June is on Black Monday this season as well, so you can catch her as Corky and Keith actually worked together this season in the world of religious television. But you can actually watch screen test and see a whole bunch of different stuff over on our Twitch channel because every Thursday, me and Hube will host a show. Jason's been on a few times.

There's been a bunch of stuff. We have a cooking show. We have music shows. It's Twitch.tv. slash friend zone. So check that out. Super fun stuff over there. And Jason, I will send you the screen test with the George Lucas talk show guys where they all compete in their Star Wars knowledge.

And it is very, very funny. They are. Oh, that's great. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening. Remember, keep this conversation going. Did you love this movie? I know you did.

You can continue that conversation in the mini episode on our Discord at discord.g.g. slash HDTGM. And a big thank you to our super producer, Cody. are recently, our recently promoted senior head engineer, Devin, Brian. I didn't know that. Congratulations, Devin. Yes, Devin is promoted. S-H-E-G. A big thank you to April Haley for pulling all of our movies and making sure that she does the work before we have to do the work.

So think of what she doesn't recommend when we get this. That's true. That's really an important room. There it is. She needs work. Yeah, think about that. I will think about it. Honestly, I will think about that.

Yeah, they're so bad she doesn't forward the longest. I have literally had conversations where I'm like, what about this? And she's like, I tried it. It's not good. Like, she's, she's set through it all. Nick Kylie. She's doing the work with his brand new baby at home, doing the research still. Thank you, Nate, for getting on top of that.

Greg T. Nelson, the ghost of Craig T. Nelson, Zach McAlees. And of course, Kyle Waldron for doing all the amazing art. I would love it if the actual Craig T. Nelson was involved in the production of this show. He just makes fan art. He loves making fan art. And thank you all. for listening, follow us all on our social channels. We will see you next week on a mini episode.

Make sure you give us a call at 619, P-A-U-L-A-U-L-A-S-K. That's 619, P-A-U-L-A-S-K. Thank you, everybody. See you next time on a mini. Bye for now. Bye.