How Did This Get Made? - Tuff Turf (HDTGM Matinee)

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Jason, June and Paul break down the 1985 classic Tuff Turf starring James Spader and Robert Downey Jr. They discuss the many tonal shifts throughout the movie, Paul’s 80’s Tuff Turf looks, the shocking violence, and more! Plus, Jason reveals why he never unpacks his clothes in a hotel and the gang can't believe The Blacklist is still on the air. (Originally Released 07/07/2022)  Get tix for our May 9th Toronto show at hdtgm.comHave a correction or omission for Last Looks? Call 619-PAULASK to leave us a voicemail!Buy HDTGM merch at howdidthisgetmade.dashery.com/Order Paul’s book about his childhood: Joyful Recollections of TraumaJoin the HDTGM conversation on Discord: discord.gg/hdtgmShop our new hat collection at podswag.comPaul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheerPaul’s YouTube page: youtube.com/paulscheerFollow Paul on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheerSubscribe to Enter The Dark Web w/ Paul and Rob Huebel: youtube.com/@enterthedarkwebListen to Unspooled with Paul and Amy Nicholson: unspooledpodcast.comListen to The Deep Dive with Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael: thedeepdiveacademy.com/podcastInstagram: @hdtgm, @paulscheer, & @junedianeTwitter: @hdtgm, @paulscheer, & msjunediane  Jason is not on social mediaEpisode transcripts available at how-did-this-get-made.simplecast.com/episodesGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using the link: siriusxm.com/hdtgm

Car antennas, weighted gym socks, old billboards, and axes are all things that hit people in this movie. We saw tough turf! So you know what that means. Now it's time for How to Discrimin' Gonna have a good time, celebrate some failure, not just be a hater, cause either you wonder how to discrimin' Let's all win the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question, how did this get made? Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to How Did This Get Made?

I am Paul Scheer, and today we are talking about Tough Turf, James Spader, Kim Richards, and Robert Downey before he was a junior. It's a story basically just like Rebel Without a Cause, but different and less dramatic. But a young kid comes to a new town, starts to flirt with a girl, and the gang doesn't like it. I mean, there's more nuance than that, but we'll get into it all with my two co-hosts. Please welcome Jason Menzougas and June Diane Rayfield.

Welcome, both of you. Wow. Wow. Thank you. Wow. How, I'm curious. I had not only never seen this movie, I was not aware, cause this is like square. This is, I looked it up, 1985.

This is square in the period of my life. You know, I'm 13 years old at that point where I would have known, I knew all these actors. I knew why have I never seen or even heard of this movie? Okay, well, this is the first time that James Spader has top billing. So this is a big movie for James Spader, but I feel like this might have been the beginning

of the wave that we know Spader. I think this is like their entry. Sure, I mean, we'll see Spader and Downey later in Less Than Zero, but you know, this is... I mean, I... And to see young Kim Richards, who I also recently saw in an episode of Magnum P.I. Go ahead, June.

Well, I was actually... I did not realize it was Kim Richards till. I was so distracted by the length of that hair. So it took me a while to realize that she felt so familiar. And then I, I, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Was anybody else worried that that long hair was going to get caught in the bike wheels when she's riding?

I was worried about it. I was worried about it the entire time. It was such a disgusting length. And when you say long, it wasn't like long for the time. It was like Guinness World Book. It was like Crystal Gale long. Yeah, it was like novelty long. Yes, and crimped.

And yeah, so actually longer. So even longer. We saw it with a curl. That was straight. It was so, and you know, something interesting about long hair and women, because it's like, it's seen as attractive, attractive, attractive, attractive, and then it gets too long. And hers was actually like a foot too long.

But anyway, all of this is to say, Paul, I'm actually really upset that we didn't do a, like a crossover episode with Casey and Daniella of Bitch Sesh to have some like real Housewives historians on and dramaturgs on the show. I was really upset. I have to turn on this movie and nobody tells me, nobody alerts me. Nobody says, boo, about the fact that there's a real housewife starring in it.

By the way, I didn't know either. Like the second lead. Until mid movie, I also didn't put it together. So it was a sneaker-upper. I think maybe just because, like I said, I saw her recently on an episode of Magnum PI, the minute she showed up, I was like, oh my God, that's, and I've never seen a, I don't know Real Housewives,

but I was like, that's that same woman who I just saw in Magnum PI that was one of the Real Housewives. And what's so tough, what's so tough in this moment, for me, is that you don't know Real Housewives. So- I know. I can't now trade on any of the contemporary knowledge.

I know a little bit because this is my one that I like. I like Beverly Hills, but I can't go as deep as June. I can't go as deep as Casey. If we want to maybe try to get them on the phone for the end of the episode to see if they can weigh in, I mean, I'm all for it. It's just so hard, cause it just feels so, I don't know.

Should we just, should we write to them right now and ask them to immediately start watching the movie and then we'll call them in 45 minutes? I will say, cause I guess I have to speak on behalf of like the canon, you know, the Bravo Lord. Like it's so crazy because. Like it's the great works of literature. Like the canon.

She needs to speak to it. She needs the Bravo canon. Because I do need to speak to it. It's like, I'm not gonna not say something. You know, my silence would be deafening. So what's so wild for those of us who know Curran Kim is she's so out of her mind. And it's pills, I don't know what it is,

but it's something. And she is Gone Girl as a person. And I have such a love for her. She's the movie Gone Girl as a person? Yes, yes. To me, I feel like she is this character if she hung out with the leader of the gang for like 30 more years.

If she stayed with Nick, is that his name? Well, that's what's so shocking to watch, young Kim Rich. I thought she did a fantastic job, but I'm like, wow, she's putting sentences together. She's getting a thought, you know, communicated. She's walking and talking. Like it was such a shock to see her this way.

And I never knew she had hair that long. So there's just a lot that I need to connect on. And I don't, I feel alone here. Not extensions. That was real hair. That was real hair. Oh, of course it was. It's real hair.

It's 1000% real hair. I do want hair. Oh, of course it was. It's real hair. It's 1000% real hair. I do wanna just speak to what Jason was saying about knowing all these people. At this point, this is a year before Pretty in Pink comes out in the theater. So, you know, so this kind of walks us back a little bit. I also would argue that James Spader, even though he looks like a man in his mid-20s,

is doing something very different than any other James Spader in the 80s role. He's normally like the coked up dude, the rich dude, and there is an element to that, but he's also kind of like this Batman character. Like, I felt like, am I watching like high school version of Drive, that movie? You know, it's like, there's an energy hero.

I was like, oh, I was, that movie, you know, it's like, there's an energy hero, I was like, oh, I was waiting for him to like, go crazy. Yeah, it had all of the, like you said, Rebel Without a Cause, it was like 10 movies in one. It's a 1985 movie and it's set in, it's set then, so everybody's got all the styles, all the new wave music, everything is 80s. But it has the structure of like, you know, 50s style gangs who are concerned with turf.

Like we didn't, nobody talked about like, whose turf is this in the 80s? That's like 50s gang speak. That's like West Side Story or Grease. Or again, it's another 80s looking back at 50s style, like, you know, like, because again, this is a high school gang of tufts, you know? We open up this movie with a scene. First of all, someone needed to tell the DP,

like, hey, we should put a light on some of these nighttime scenes. Because when Spader is biking around and there's another time when they're driving around at night, like like it is dark. It's like if I took an iPhone photo. Yes and no, because then, yes, it's too dark there, but then like when they're at the club

where Robert Downey, period, just Downey, is playing with his band in the warehouse, it's bright as day in that warehouse. Oh yeah, no, they light the scenes inside great. Or they just shot them during the day. Yeah, but it shouldn't be so bright. Like I was like, who wants to party in this? I want a nice dim.

That one dance sequence with Jim Carrell, Jim Carrell of the back. The Jim Carrell band, yeah. It's Jim Carrell, Basketball Diaries. I'm like, wait, this movie is truly, like I wrote down, I think I love this movie. I'm like wait this movie is truly blow Like I wrote down I think I love this movie I'm not sure my only grievance with this movie quite honestly is that it's almost two hours long. Yes Yeah, it's very long one hour and 52 minutes and I look at that has to be a mistake right? It's gotta be yeah. Otherwise though. I like you I was like, I would have loved this in the 80s.

I would have loved a high school set, drama, contemporary drama, a la those kind of, those old movies, like, you know, gangs and fights and all the, but, and then good music. It's like Mary Ann Faithful, Jim Carrell. Like, there's all these great New Wave artists. There's all this great music that's in... I mean, they've also got, like, throwback,

like, Booker T. and the MGs, you know? Like, there's, like, it's a great soundtrack. It's really interesting. Good actors. I was like, but this movie, I've never even... I don't know anything about this. And it was... I enjoyed it. I mean, I enjoyed it, and I also have so many questions, because the movie opens up in this sequence

where you're watching this kid go, well, I don't even know if it's a kid, it's so fucking dark, and we learn it's James Spader, but bicycling through, and it's not even a cool bike, it's just kind of like a normal 10-speed, it doesn't need, you know, and you're like, what's the tone here, what am I seeing? No parking sign, okay, that doesn't really give me that much.

Cocktails, well, that's just a bar. It doesn't seem, like, I don't know what kind of city they're trying to let me know that we're in, but it just seems kind of normal. And then you get to this scene where there's an old man, you know, middle-aged man, not an old man, middle-aged man out on the street waiting for a cab. Young woman comes up to him to ask him for some money,

which he immediately thinks is gonna go his direction. He asks her for a drink, even though she does look like she is a high school student. And this is all a ploy to kind of violently rob him. I mean, that opening sequence where- I don't know why they needed like eight people. Well, the split- Yeah, why so many? I wrote that too.

The split is gonna be very unsatisfying. Each of them's walking away with maybe five bucks. You know, eight or 10 bucks. Like. And what a risk, you know. Too many people to just be mugging one guy. I'm the dude that holds the antenna. Well, I'm the dude who does the lookout.

I'm the girl who. And it seems as though. I hold the knife. No, you know what? They're really the extraneous person was the other girl. Yes. She's the one who just gave like sort of a thumbs up. But it's like, but, but, but Kim Richards

could have easily done that. That was really, that felt extra, felt bloated. They had it worked out so much that everybody had a role. And so they all had to like nod and be like, okay, now you go. And I was like, well, they've clearly put work into this, but actually they've overdone it. You don't, you don't, like once Kim Richard starts talking

to the guy, if you're just gonna grab him and push him up against the wall, you can do that now. I mean- Too many cooks in the kitchen. Exactly. But cause that guy is not gonna put up a fight. Like you don't need, you don't need to run game on this man, because all they did was grab him and throw him into a wall.

They didn't need anything more than the one guy to grab him and throw him into the wall. It felt like a, and in doing so, so the opening of this movie is this, street toughs robbing a guy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But so it felt like almost like The Warriors or something. Yeah. You know, it felt like, and then hard cut to Spader,

rides his 10-speed in, foils the robbery, rides off, and next thing you know, it's a high school set montage. And I was like, what is this? Can we just talk about Hill? He comes in because, again, we're following this person on his bike. It just seems like he's riding around in the middle of the night. It has those feelings of like, I can't sleep, insomnia, whatever.

And then he's whistling a jaunty tune. He's like a happy Batman. He is so fluid. He grabs a spray paint can, spray paints all the attackers, like, unarms them, and he's singing a song, and then just kind of rides off into the night, and the gang is like, oh, who the hell is that? But it's so weird because you're like, oh,

this is a story, this is a vigilante story. This is like a, this is a kid. I thought it was gonna be a very cool writer. Right. From Grease 2. Ooh. Grease 2. Well, yes, we remember it well. Grease 2, which I did by June the LP. We have the vinyl here in the house.

Ooh, that's nice. The Grease 2 vinyl. I will say though, that I still think it's a high school movie because before that sequence that you talked about, Jason, that high school sequence, we cut to James Spader in his bed full of roaches. His bedroom is full of roaches. And you're like, oh, disgusting.

Like on the wall, like I was like, ugh. And his room is a mess. And we see him under like these covers, like Cameron from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. I'm like, is he sick? What's going on? Is he like, has he gone catatonic? What is happening?

And then he all of a sudden moves with these two. What we learn are like paintball guns. And is it even? They seem to be shooting darts. I thought they were dart guns. OK, because I thought there was like a little blue splat. All right, so two dart guns that he then perfectly aims at these two cockroaches on a Albert Einstein posters,

like bam, bam. And like, oh shit, this is a revenge movie. He never shows that again. Like he never shows fighting. Yeah, he's not a sharpshooter. He's not a, yeah, yeah, yeah. Never shows any. Well, he does use them at the very end.

Oh, yes. But I think what you're getting at, Paul, is was my concern as well, which is like, I never quite understood what Spader, and I love Spader. I've always loved Spader. I just love him. I never quite understood what his character, Morgan, wanted. Yes, and or what he cared about., Morgan, wanted, wanted.

Like- Yes, and or what he cared about. What he cared about, like I get that he's sort of taken with Frankie, but in that first scene on the bicycle, like it doesn't seem like he has this moral compass and is this sort of crime stopper or anything like that. It just seems like he happened to be there. I think he just likes mixing it up. You know, and it sounds like he's always getting in trouble.

Like he got in trouble in Connecticut. He got in trouble at boarding school, got kicked out. It seems like he just gets into trouble. Right. And like, not to jump ahead too far, but you know, later in the movie, his father is shot by the by the bull, the main guy who's bullying him and who's, you know, you know, issuing him savage beatdowns with the locks in the towels.

That was like a brutal scene anyway. But Spader doesn't even react to his father being shot. Well, oh my God, when that happens. Anyway, but Spader doesn't even react to his father being shot. Like he doesn't seem to feel- Well, he seems to be like, what we're trying to bond with is, this kid used to be super rich and now he's poor. And he's like mad.

His brother's still seemingly rich. Was he mad though, that he's poor? He wants to like show up the rich, cause I think there's an element to him, like the rich kicked me out. That's why he wants to break into the country club. Like I think he wants to like show up the rich because I think there's an element to him like the rich kicked me out. That's why he wants to break into the country club. Like I think he wants to be like, I used to play this game, I don't play it anymore.

But he also doesn't feel like he wants to, yeah. Is still in that world. And he's, well, once again, a little bit to what you both have said so far, like Spader, it doesn't, Spader feels great in this movie and is doing a gangbusters performance, but he doesn't see, I don't believe him,

the only thing I don't believe is that he's these people's son. Oh. No, I mean. Okay, well I have so many questions. How did this get me? How did this get me? The scene where Spader's, Morgan's older brother older brother Brian is back and we've heard

before that like Brian is you know the favorite son and his son all the right things fine so with this scene where he's introduced he's sitting with his mom outside and they're drinking wine and I thought for sure oh when I first saw them together this is a date or this is her boyfriend. And the guy we saw earlier was his grandfather. OK, like the ages and the sort of because that guy seemed so old. Well, when we saw his dad or I see the brother. Yes. So when I so when we see him,

Spader jump on his bike and leave for school, his dad's coming in from being a cab driver at night. And in my mind, I was like, okay, I buy this version of it. I buy Spader as the independent son of a single father who's older and is, they don't really, they're not connected much. That made sense to me. But when they were instead like a family unit that had just been displaced from like Tony, Connecticut, then I was like, oh, wait a minute, now I don't understand what this is anymore.

And what happened in Connecticut? What happened to this business? Well, his dad's business went under at one point. That's all we know is it went under. He didn't seem like his dad did anything wrong. It just went under, I think. But there's a moment. Okay, it just went under, huh?

There's a moment in the movie where he's like, this isn't Connecticut, mom. Things are different here in Southern California. You could almost make a very clear connection to like the OC and Connecticut, Laguna Beach and Connecticut. Yeah, but this I think is Recita. Yeah, this isn't the OC. Oh yeah, cause it's like, what does it say on all the signs?

Like fuck Tahun-ga or like fuck Toluca? Oh, does it? I didn't see that. I didnun-ga or like fuck Toluca? Like it's like- Oh, does it? I didn't see that. I didn't see that, but this is not the OC. This is not Dana Point. This is, you know- It doesn't seem that, I mean, I guess it is rough,

but it's like, it doesn't seem like this is a whole different world than Connecticut. Well, it definitely is different than like Tony kind of country club town. It's not that, you know, they have to drive to whatever, It definitely is different than Tony kind of country club town. It's not that. They have to drive to whatever, Beverly Hills or wherever they go to go to the country club, which is fun and a funny set piece to give him an opportunity to kind of flex the nonsense

of what he used to, the systems he used to live in. I have so many clips from that. By the way, I think that that moment might have been Robert Downey Jr.'s audition tape for Saturday Night Live, because he does shoot this movie and then goes the next year to Saturday Night Live. Oh, his character work is great.

Oh, is that right? Oh yeah. Wow. Because he, and again, Robert, I'm not making fun of it. Robert Downey is likable and fun and whatever, but it's like he definitely does a lot of the comedy heavy lifting and that scene, you feel like they're like improvised and he just improvised and did his own thing. And it felt, they very much felt, even though they only share a couple of scenes together,

he and Spader feel very comfortable with each other and they have great chemistry. And they also are both doing really good versions, already pretty great versions of like their performance style to come. Yes. This is like a weird prequel to like less than zero. It's like a low stakes less than zero. Like you're like, oh, I like, like somebody clearly saw this movie and was like, oh, we'll put them all together. I just want to, uh, I just want to play this one clip because we're talking about the dad and we may not get back to the dad. Uh, RIP, uh, of what the dad giving like all these platitudes to him. Like when he talks to him about like what it takes to be a real man, it's like he's saying and he, well, listen,

just, just cut out that self pity and crap. I don't want you to be Brian. I want you to be you. All right. So you screwed up. So what? Listen. Do what you really want to do. Do whatever it is that you know is right, that you believe in, that's all. And feel good about it. Life isn't a problem to be solved, it's a mystery to be lived. So live it.

I couldn't quite tell in that scene, it's like, is it supposed to be like, the dad has nothing to say, or the writer is like, these are good platitudes. I don't like- You know what's interesting, because I was actually thinking about that. I'm like, gosh, if our children were getting into trouble,

like I'm not sure that the first thing I would say is just do what you want to do, which is essentially what the dad says. Like, do you, like what you wanna do is great. Don't worry about says. Like, do you? Like, what you wanna do is great. Don't worry about your older brother, do you? And it's like, well, I don't know. You know, I think that he is doing him and it's not working out.

All that crazy. I think the dad, I felt like the dad. But what is even him? Like, what is him? What is like, I don't know what his goal is. His goal is like, he stopped a crime, the gang is mad, they wreck his bike, and that's really, and then...

And then he likes the girl. And he likes the girl, and then he gets them arrested by stealing a car and then making them steal it from him. Like he thought that process out, but he really doesn't do, like he just kind of agitates the gang. He doesn't do anything with a larger worldview. At one point, the principal's like,

and you played those concerts on the roof. He's in multiple scenes with musicals. I thought for sure. When that principal said that, I thought for sure inside of this movie, we were gonna get a concert on the roof. By the way. No, we didn't.

We did get a concert in the, you know, country club. And that's what, if I were his dad, I would say like, let's get you into music lessons. But by the way, let's. Which because, you know, in this movie, every single location has a live band playing, whether it's lunch at a Tony country club or a warehouse party, every place has a full band. And he never gets up to play, but yet when he does play, this is not the song that you think of somebody saying, oh, you got up on the roof.

I feel the thunder. I feel the pain. I know the struggles you keep, the nights in the rain. I feel your face. I hear your eyes. I know the nights that you cry. But still, we survive. I walk the night. I walk the night.

Fighting the darkness that breaks our hearts. I walk the night. Well, my darling, would you care to dance? Fighting the darkness that breaks our hearts, we hold each other tight. Yeah, he sings like this Neil Diamond song. It's like that doesn't seem like the rock. You're mad that this kid likes Neil Diamond? Like, he doesn't seem to be like a tough dude. Like, what's wrong? What's wrong with this kid?

I agree. You've said it earlier, but I also wrote it in my notes too, Paul, which is there are elements of this that I was like, I had to look it up. This came out the year before Ferris Bueller's day off and there are real Ferris Bueller moments, like the in the bed thing.

And then also this like, let's break into the country club, pretend like we belong, and then let's get on stage and perform, is kind of like taking over the parade float and kind of making everybody look at you, you know? And I felt like this was that, but that he chooses to sing a ballad, like a piano ballad was,

and the crowd just completely goes along with it. Like the Richie Rich country club people. was, and the crowd just completely goes along with it. The Richie Rich Country Club people. The Richie Riches, I love so much because, you know, it seems like in the 80s, the only thing you needed to do as either a costume designer or as an actual rich person was just take a sweater, drape it over your shoulders, and then tie it in a knot right at your chest.

By the way, that was my outfit. That was the way that my mom dressed me 90% of the time. Okay. Couple of follow up questions though, Paul. Wow. You had to be old enough, like at what age? Because at a certain age, you should have been dressing yourself.

Wait, was your mom dressing you like that in high school? Not dressing you literally. No, no, no, no, no. Was she choosing?? Not dressing you literally, but like was she choosing? When I was a kid, when I was a kid, but I will say that my mom- You were like a power drape? Oh, yeah. Mom, I will, like my mom also used to dress my stepdad up like that.

Is there a picture available like currently? Yes, yes, I can get you a picture right here. Cause that's like, that's a wild reality. If you're like a little, a little businessman, a little weekend businessman. It's also like you're a kid. Like how do you use your arms and play and climb, climb and do all your things?

My mom, we were not of that ilk. We were not of the James Spader, Connecticut ilk, but we definitely tried to dress that way. I mean, we definitely tried to dress that way. That mean, we definitely tried to dress that way. That is incredible. I mean, your mom to this day rocks a sweater over a t-shirt or a Oxford white button down. I have no problem with that.

I know you don't, Jason, but always there's a nice little sweater over it. So this is a little sampling, a little flavor of all of my looks. Okay, so this is number one. That's pretty good. I mean, that's, you know, that's like, you know, yeah, that's good. You know, good. All right. So I mean, it's not quite country club good, but it's good. It's adorable. It's no, it's just a buttoned at the collar, white button shirt to the collar. Very also very patriotic red, white and blue shirt to the collar with a V-neck. Okay.

Also very patriotic, red, white and blue. Yes, that's a little, again, like a little turtleneck, white turtleneck, again. Okay. Okay. I only wish you were wearing a little blazer. All right, so this is- Whoa, that's great.

All right. And then- Oh, listeners, these are really delightful. And then- Oh, I knew they were coming. There's you fringing your mom. There you go. Oh my God!

Oh yeah, baby. There it is! Oh yeah! Oh my God! It's a tie, it's a tie with a sweater draped over it. So it's not even a casual look because the tie dresses it up. Now where were you going?

I think I was maybe going to school. I'm not positive. Oh, I see. Wow. Wow. Yeah, so that, yeah, there you go. That's me in my audition for Tough Turf. I also love, there's so much in this picture

that I'm obsessed with. The lines in the rug. Yeah. Which I needed to do. I had to essentially vacuum the rug as if I was hoeing a field, like up one side, down the other. Totally. I remember that's like mowing the lawn. It was the same.

Yeah, I remember, because I used to also do the vacuuming. So of course I noticed that. And then the table, this whole picture, this is incredible stuff. By the way, do you like the empty wine rack that I'm next to? I was saying, empty, exactly. Completely empty wine rack and a wall with nothing. Nothing on it.

And the outlet cover is a different white than the wall color white. Yeah. Oh, there we go. You know, it's also like the table is pretty far away from both the chair and the outlet. I'm obsessed with this picture. You look so cute. I can't, honestly, I'm very really happy. The sweater draped over the shoulders

is some next level stuff. Yeah, you know, here's another, this is another shot of me, you know, in my little Lacoste. I mean, look, I'm always, I'm a kid who's wearing a tie and a white sweater a lot. I'm wearing a lot. I'll say this too though. Your mom's blouse, I'm assuming that's your mom.

Yes. Your mom's blouse in this picture is really the focus. This is gangbusters. This is ruffles on ruffles on ruffles. On sleeves. And then I think also like a princess sleeve. Yes. Yeah, that's a puff sleeve like Anne from Anne of Green Gables would say.

Yeah, there's some good shots there. These are great. Yeah, so that is some tough turf looks for sheer. You know, going back to what we were saying about Spader, you know, I couldn't quite get to the bottom of why nobody pressed charges after Spader's father was shot. By the way, James Spader literally, like I understand, like we're not talking

about an acting choice. He is truly unmoved by his father being shot by his enemies. I found that scene to be pretty brutal. I mean, this was the weird thing overall about the movie for me. There was, to me, it vacillated between being like, oh, this is like a high school movie, you know,

but very similar to Grease and like this sort of class struggle and, you know, people from the wrong side of the tracks mixing up with these Richie Riches and all of that. And then there's music and there's these fun elements. And then there's some brutal violence that really escalates to the point where... It escalates in like a, in a Saturday night fever way. Yes, guess where I'm like, oh my God. With radical violence.

At one point, Nick is gonna kill Kim Richards. There's really, the stakes are jumped from high school, you're right, high school level stuff, switch blades and fist fights to like, true and bullying. Family massacres, yes. To like, yes, killing people, like murder, in a way that like, I don't understand why Nick is even

able to be in the rest of the movie. He should be arrested immediately upon... By the way, he stole a car and he gets out like the next day. Like he basically, you know, and I guess maybe you can get out if you post bail, but it didn't seem like they had a lot of, uh, I don't know what's going on there because Kim Richard's dad, I mean, that whole scene was really upsetting. He gets out of jail and then basically they come in to just reveal like we're married. Frankie, get out of here.

Now do you see why you have to go? I'm coming. Come to my house for dinner tomorrow night no way Frankie forget it I'll be there for you read it. Okay. Go Morgan Go get out of here. I'm coming Nothing can a girl have any privacy around here? Yeah, but not when we want to celebrate. Celebrate? That's right, it's not every night I get asked for my baby's hand.

You gotta open that. What? Yep. You believe this? And you said yes. I'm so happy sweetheart. I mean, what, surprise? Like, that was very upsetting. When she said I'm not gonna go to school, I'll just get married. I felt very upset.

This movie is dark. Like, there's a lot of dark stuff. And compared to what Jason said earlier, when a movie opens up with this montage of fun 80s high school where it's like, hey, you know all the groups the weird walking kids Oh the big boombox people because they all had heightening of big boomboxes the break dancers and it's like Oh, you know the snap bracelet girls. It's like like we're building on this kind of fun high school then the next thing is like these tough girls talking about dicks and

People getting stabbed like there are. Like there are some turns. Like I said, this movie is like that heightened quick. Like we get out of the fun high school immediately. Well, it really is like, you know, like these kids are dealing with not just the machinations of high school itself, because you almost never see them in class or doing any of that. What you are seeing is them them in class or doing any of that. What you are seeing is them engaging in life or death battles. Like, the locker room scene, I mentioned it earlier, where all of the bad guys, the bully

guys load up towels full of combination lockers or locks rather. Keys, all sorts of different items. And proceed to beat Spader. Yeah. locks rather, and proceed to beat Spader. I was so savage and brutal that I was like, he would not survive this. These would break his skull. But James Spader also like, and this is what was upsetting about the movie.

Like, yes, I understand at the end, spoiler alert, he saves, he doesn't save the day. He just escapes with his life and accidentally kind of kills the other guy. I was waiting for him to go like full Hulk. Like I wanted him to be like, now you've pissed me off. But like people just whip out guns in this movie, like guns are out.

Like there are a lot of just like, but he never does anything clever or cool. And you, I don't feel like triumphant that he kills this kid. Like you wanted to see him beat their asses, but every time he gets one step ahead, he gets caught and just beat down, like kick him the dick. It's really like the movie is very bifurcated in that sense

because it is like up tempo, new wave, dance. This is a dance scene. We're gonna have an R&B band, they're gonna dance and be together and then juxtaposed with like savage fight. Like brutal fight that ends up with his dad getting shot, cut to teenagers having sex. You know, and you're like, oh, wait a minute.

What is, what is the, I don't know if this is a teen movie or if this is like the Warriors, you know? But then I also thought, and this is where I'm gonna also just be very honest and say, I also had a couple of thoughts where like the warriors, you know? But then I also thought, then this is where I'm gonna also just be very honest and say, I also had a couple of thoughts where I'm like, man, the 80s must've been fun as hell because when you look at these people dancing, it's like, you look at, you got rich kids,

you got the punks, you got break dancers, like everyone. Did you think those scenes were like true representations of the 80s? There was something about it. The 80s documentary. So you're saying- That part got it, they nailed that part. You liked that everyone was dancing.

Old, young, rich, poor. I just like that it was sort of like, dancing brought everybody together, like they all liked the same kind of music, but also it was sort of like, hey, you dress like that, you dress like that. Because some people are dancing like a court, like they've, like, it was almost like 80s line dancing.

I don't think that there was that kind of group community dancing in the 80s. Well, you also, they seem to live in a world in which whatever location they arrive at, there's a band playing and everyone's dancing. It doesn't matter what age bracket, it doesn't matter. Like when they are, when they go to the country club, which is full of old people,

there's still a band, a new wave band playing Twist and Shout. And everybody's up dancing during lunch at like the Beverly Hills Country Club. So was it a weekend? I don't know. But so, oh God, I was so upset when they're getting, when Spader's kind of prepping everybody to go into the country club and giving them like makeshift, you know, makeovers to get them looking kind of- Giving them little Paul makeovers. Preppy, yeah. I was so upset to see Kim Richards take that mane and like tie it on itself multiple times.

Like she took her hair and made a ponytail. Like it was so distressing to me. I still, I don't know that we spent enough time on that hair. Like- Well, the hair is like- It was another character in the movie. It's its own character.

Yeah, truly. Yes, it is. It has, it has, it's making choices. Oh, honestly. The hair is making acting choices. Honestly, it is. See, it is. It has, it has, it's making choices. The hair is making acting choices. Honestly, it was. By the way, it's a very malignant kind of hairstyle. Like you wouldn't surprise me if she hadn't. Now I'll give her hair this.

I'll give her hair this. It is so long that, I mean, usually like when someone's hair is that long, I would say about a foot of it is split ends at the bottom, but it did look pretty healthy. Well, I'm gonna say, I'm just gonna like open this up for everybody. If you want to imagine how long her hair is,

I'm looking at a picture of right now. It is obviously from her head past her. It's the kind of hair that starts in her head. Okay, that's good, good to know. As someone without a lot of hair, I gotta start there. And it goes past her waist. It is like, it is almost down to, like, I'm looking at it here. I would say if you put your thumb and forefinger,

like if you put your thumb on your belt, Wow, what is it? Thumb on your belt? They would be about that deep. If you put your thumb on your belt and then- And then dropped your forefinger down. What? And dropped your finger down? Like, yeah, just dropped your finger down. That's how long the hair is. You put your thumb on your belt and then And then dropped your forefinger down What? And dropped your finger down? Like yeah, just dropped your finger down. That's how long the hair is

You put your thumb? Okay, you put your thumb on your belt, you drop your finger down That's how long her hair is Here's the thing too, the reason why You know the classic measurement of thumb and belt finger down Yes, go ahead So here's what's also so crazy about the hair. So at one point I'm looking at hair and I'm like, if she didn't have bangs and also if she wasn't wearing the hair in a way so that the top also went up, like she has about like two inches going up, would it look as long? You know, because that's the other piece of it

is that yes, it's really long hair. It's also crimped. But then there's also this other hair around her face that's big and like- That's a different framing device. Yeah, exactly. It's not like cascading on either side, split in the middle, like hearted in the middle

or something like framing her face. There are wispy bangs going down. This is a classic 80s, wispy bangs going down, wispy bangs going up. We're looking at a picture still from the movie Behind Paul, and both of the women in the picture have that claw of hair going down, claw of hair going up.

Which by the way, I did. I did that in seventh grade. And I was like, this looks fucking great. Like I've never looked better. By the way, another reason why I liked this movie and I think it was shocking to me, but when we are looking at these women, like not only do they look good.

I mean, these are tough girls, but they're also just eating hamburgers. I haven't seen a girl in a movie, like eat it, like just go to town on hamburgers and then Kim Richards like shoves that hamburger in her face I don't know like just seeing like just seeing girls. It's like eating burgers like there's like there I don't know why like it seems so foreign to me. I'm like, I don't see that in movies I don't see this like all the way to like I loved all of the outfits in this movie

it would like this was this movie was I think one of the outfits in this movie. This movie was, I think, one of the best versions of like 80s style that we've watched. You know, like some of the other ones that we've recently done, like Attack of the Rock Aliens or whatever, they really go for it, you know, in a way. And these felt like... This was much more subtle. This was very real. This felt like me in high school

or junior high and high school. This felt like, these felt like ordinary 80s clothes. You know what I mean? Even though they're crazy. I think they're trying to show that they are less well off. Right? Yeah, I think so too. Because you know, I think a lot of the 80s stuff

that we see, it's like, oh, these are not rich kids, but they are like, they have a little bit more money. I mean, this is supposed to be the poor side of town. Yeah. And it is. No, I'm not gonna lie, at one point early on in the movie, is actually before I realized it was Kim Richards, I thought she had a face tattoo.

I thought that that thing. The thing on her head, the headband, yeah. Because it looked so close to her face. And it was so thin. Yeah, I was like, oh interesting. It was such a thin headband that she's wearing early on. I could see that, yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you about this too, like, about their wealth.

Because I think that they are trying to make a statement about class in here as well. But there is like this idea where it's like, are they that poor that Robert Downey Jr. needs to save that loaf of bread that he puts down his pants? Like, because at one point, Robert Downey Jr. puts a giant baguette down his pants. And, because at one point Robert Downey Jr. puts a giant baguette down his pants. And then the country club representative,

who's very suspicious of them, pulls it out and then places it back down on the buffet table. Back on the buffet. Whoa, that really got me. But I'm also like, is he stealing it? And meanwhile, one of the other girls, not Kim Rich's, but the other woman in the gang,

is just grabbing fistfuls of, like, buffet material, like shrimp and whatever, and, like, putting them in her purse. It is very funny. I mean, it's... I think your point, though, Paul, is, like, well, can they not afford food? Right. You know, and... Ah.

I think they're just doing what they can. They're just making do, you know? And I think it's fun to... crash a party and steal a bunch of food. Totally. Yeah. I mean, you know, my dad used to do that at cocktail parties. Kim Richard's dad seems to own a convenience store.

Her mother has passed away, we find out. Obviously, the rest of the gang members are in and out of jail. They seem to be very badly off. Robert Downey Jr., we see where he lives. And you know, Jason, yeah, I wanted to say one thing about Kim Richards and her mom, because I always find in a lot of these, a lot of teen dramas, like you see either a boy loses his mom or a girl loses her dad.

But it was very nice to see that a girl had lost her mom and to establish like that grief, because I don't think it's portrayed often in movies. And she is clearly, I mean, this is the thing about the movie, it's so weird, because I was like, oh, what an interesting choice to give her that, because to me, it explains so much of her behavior.

You know, smashing the hamburger into her friend's face, choice to give her that because to me it explained so much of her behavior. Right. You know, smashing the hamburger into her friend's face, being in this like totally toxic relationship, but also wanting like the safety and security of Morgan and like it was so, it was such a good choice for her. And it made me really care about her, even though I didn't understand why she was so mad at Morgan's mom for just bringing it up. Yeah, I mean, but also like I could chalk that up to just

she's a teen, teen history on it. She's a teenager. But there are moments like that in this movie where you do cut or at least I found like there, there are really interesting weird choices that are unexpected that I really liked. And then there's just, um, a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense. Well, that's the, I was going to say, like, I think it's, I think this movie does both. This movie is constantly making wild choices or interesting choices, some of which work and make the movie

actually quite a bit better than I might have thought it would be, and then some of them are just like head scratchers. Like, whoa, why did you take this this far? Now, it's very hard to enjoy the more high school level stakes of the movie once I realize people can be shot. You know, like, once I realize, like, because that's not even at the end of the movie. can be shot. You know, like, once I realized, like, cause that's not even at the end of the movie.

Like they shoot his dad, like, at the end of act two. Well, let me ask you this though. The choice on James Spader's part, as soon as he, him and Frankie sort of make a connection after the country club, to immediately want to take her, not on a date, not to a restaurant, not to like get to know her better, but take her home to his parents. Yeah.

And sit her down at a family dinner table. That's straight up Rebel Without a Cause by the way. Like that is- Oh, yes you're right. Like this movie has so many like legit parallel scenes. Yes, it's true, yeah. So I don't think that there was any reason for it, but in Rebel Without a Cause, maybe it makes more sense. Here it doesn't think that there was any reason for it, but in Rebel of the Aide cause,

maybe it makes more sense here, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. And it also especially doesn't because he has such an already established antagonistic relationship with those parents. Yes, or at least his mom. He never wants to be home, so why is he? You know what I mean?

Why, but I think you're right. They are just, this movie is full of references to other... other things. But it's also like, here's the thing that's so weird. Rebel Without a Cause... There is a class difference. There is no class difference between... Right. You know, between any of these characters.

They all seem to be roughly in the same thing. Except for Robert Downey's character who his brother like has Dobermans and runs a repair shop. I mean, when Robert Downey Jr. My god, dogs. When Robert Downey Jr. comes in to save the day with two rogue Dobermans, like he's like, crazy, I'm here to help you. That was my favorite part of the movie. I mean, it was amazing.

And releases Dobermans upon the bad guys to like bite their arms. I just wish the Dobermans had been introduced earlier and more effectively because I would have been, I would have been like on my feet screaming. I was so excited to see them come in even without having any setup or connection to them. Oh, yeah. The fact that he arrives and is like, hey, and it's like, here's backup and two dogs. Great, I loved it. But I agree, like I would have loved it more if that had been established better,

if there had been a little bit more legwork to that. Also, if you're spader, like you are fine to get those guys arrested when you can frame them for stealing a car, but you know they're gonna be at the warehouse, whatever, o'clock, why not send the police there to arrest the people who shot your father, who attempted to murder your father? Like, I can't figure that out.

By the way, the dad, the dad kicked some serious ass. Oh, I was so proud of the dad. Yeah, the dad was great. The dad knew, that dad, I have a lot of respect for that dad. I know I made fun of his platitudes and I know I'm gonna slam him in just a second. But that guy was studying real estate.

But in this moment, yeah. Because here's my issue. This guy, he's what is, he's trying to drive a cab or is he trying to read the newspaper? Because when we see him, he's got the newspaper laid out like he's in New York City reading it on the hood of the cab in the middle of the night.

Like, do some work, this is not an Uber world. Like, first of all, don't take the night shifts. You know, like- Maybe shifts hadn't started yet. I think there is something where like, you don't wanna go out there or, you know, the day shift workers might still be on. Like, you don't wanna grab someone else's fare.

You also don't wanna waste gas, you know? I guess, I mean, be on, like you don't want to grab someone else's fare. You also don't want to waste gas, you know? I guess, I mean, idling, just to open up that, nothing tells me more I'm unavailable than opening up a newspaper on the hood of the vehicle that you are using to perform your business. I also had a great amount of respect for the dad. I thought, you know what, he was, I don't know what happened with that business.

I really don't. And, but he is trying to make some money. And why does the brother not help more? I feel that the brother is doing well. Yeah, why not? Why doesn't the brother like take some money from his shoulder sweater budget and give it to the folks? By the way, I did like the two brothers at each other

because it was just a lot of white. It was like, I'll have a yellow shirt on with a white top. I'll have a white top on with a yellow shirt. It was just all that. So many pastels on rich people in the 80s. And by the way, the principal was a great character that they really set up and then he never came back to do a goddamn thing.

The movie couldn't decide whether it wanted to occur during high school or not. And they kept like really struggling with that in a way that it was a bummer. I really, because I mean, for the most part, this high school gang, Nick and the bad guys, they seem to really mostly be concerned with beating up dads.

They beat up and shoot. A thousand percent. James Spader said, then in a rage, this guy gives such a good rage filled performance. Yeah, he does. He goes into Kim Richards' father's corner store and basically body slams the old man and Kim Richards. He basically goes in there and WWEs the whole place.

It's fucking nuts. OK, so this is again, like, the movie steps over these lines, because you think, oh yeah, he's just, he's like a high school bully, you know, gang leader, and then you're like, oh no, he's a psychopath? Killer? Yeah, who is a grown man. Yeah. That's the thing that happens when you cast people who are actually adults to play high school students.

When they start doing the violence at the level of adults, you're like, the dissonance between, wait, I thought these were kids. And you're like, oh no, this is a 27-year-old man suplexing an elderly gentleman. And I will say, uh... He picks Kim Richards up and throws her to the ground.

And I was like, hey, hey, what's happening? It was very upsetting. And you know what it was about that movie too, is like the stunts, I mean, there's one or two bigger stunts like when the billboard falls on somebody and then when the main bad guy falls off the ledge. But for the most part, it felt to me like the violence was painful.

Like it wasn't like a movie violence where it's like, oh, I'm falling off the Sears tower. It's more like I just fell eight feet, but I fucked up my neck. Like my collarbone is broken. Like the damage felt weird. And then the movie ends with like, you feel dirty, like people were hurt and then cut to.

Ba-da-da-da-da-da. Ba-da-da-da-da. Well, not only were people hurt, Paul, I think I wanna know how many casualties there were in that warehouse. Because I know Nick is dead. Nick appears to be dead. Robert Downey Jr. got shot in that part of your leg

where it's like if you get shot there, you can bleed out. I mean, he's wearing a cast. He definitely was shot in his femoral artery. And you can see he's like, he basically has bled out. And the dog comes up and like seems to bring him like something to tie a tourniquet with. I was like, I couldn't figure that out. I was like, is the dog helping?

Are these dogs like medical professionals? Those dogs were incredible and saved the day, you know? I mean, by the day, you know? I mean, by the way, that's what I'm mad about this movie. Why can't James Spader save the day? Like I want him to make the movie. It was more triumphant to have those two Dobermans appear. And I, I felt like a swelling in my heart when they came in and I, I was so excited to see them do their thing. And I didn't feel that at all. By the way, I will say,

don't you feel that Dobermans are such an 80s, scary dog? Like, like we don't hear that much about Dobermans being attacking anyone anymore. Like, but like in the eighties it's like, Oh God, they got Dobermans. Dobermans. Terrifying. Zeus and Apollo on Magnum PI. That's right. The neighbors there across the street from us had a Doberman and they would have him

on like this very long chain. And from the house, but the chain, the way it worked, like if you started to walk down the sidewalk, he would start racing toward you and then like just stop right before he got you. It was absolutely terrifying. I do want to talk about like some other terrifying things here and I know we mentioned it before.

Could we just go back to Robert Downey Jr. chasing James Spader with the car? We don't know it's Robert Downey Jr. But James Spader is like waiting on a bus stop. He's having like a very like music video moment where he's like grabbing like a stanchion of like a bus sign. He's sign is oh, I'm so conflicted Sitting moping but it's like very much like music should be playing under it like the music voyage of the rock aliens music

Which I'm always up for and by the way just came out of vinegar syndrome as a pristine DVD, which I bought But then this car the one of the bad guys cars Spots him and starts chasing him and James fader's running and he's throwing shit at it in the corner. The car is bashing him into a corner and James Spader's about to jump over a barbed wire fence and he can't get up and he's gonna get hurt. And then Robert Downey Jr. pops out. I was like, gotcha. I was like, that's not good, man. Yeah. I will say this.

This kind of speaks to what we were talking about earlier in this way that like Spader, and I'm certain he's young when he made this, you know, he's young in the movie, he's playing a high school person. Spader to me doesn't appear to ever be a character who has parents or who has a family or who feels tethered to anything.

He is like in everything, like, an individual only, right? So much so that in the scene where he and Kim Richards, right before they have sex, she is talking about all she keeps hearing is the sound of the gun going off and the shooting and the gun and the blah, blah, blah. And she gets to have this whole breakdown where she's reacting to the gun violence that she witnessed and was a part of. And he never is like, that was my father that was shot.

Like, he, he has, he's not experiencing... No, she seems much more connected to his father. She is having a complete emotional arc based on the events that were led to and were a part of his father's shooting. And he is completely not uninterested, but he's really unaffected in a weird way. It's very strange. It's a weird, but I think that there's a plot.

I mean, God knows where it was cut out because the movie is almost two hours. Like there needed to be something else here. But I think that there's a plot, I mean, God knows where it was cut out, because the movie is almost two hours. Like, there needed to be something else here. Like, did the dad do something? Like, I could understand that the dad gambled their money away, did something, or he lost respect for his parents.

But you don't even get that. You don't get anything. The dad just looks like a lumpy mess of a guy until he gets fighting out there. He's like a Harry Dean Stanton a guy until he gets fighting out there. He's like a Harry Dean Stanton scene. I want a Harry Dean Stanton. Yeah, but Paul, you seem to be so back and forth on the dad.

Like one minute you're proud of him, and then the next you're just like- I know, I know, I'm very conflicted about this dad, because I do feel like, I guess what I'm saying is, the dad looks beaten down, and I'm like, God, and he can't even get the love of his son. It would only make sense if the dad brought it upon himself,

I guess, and that's what I'm trying to, I'm feeling I'm missing one part of it. No, the son, what's crazy is Spader feels no guilt. Right. Like the scene where Kim Richards is like, she feels guilt for being part of this shooting. He, Spader, feels nothing, even though it's his relationship with Kim and his continuous antagonizing of the gang that has caused the gang to get revenge on him.

You know what I mean? Like that it's he is he is into his father was assaulted and shot because of Spader's actions. You know, I mean not the Spader's actions, you know? I mean, not, Spader didn't know that they would take it this far, of course. I don't think, you know, but- But he keeps on antagonizing them.

He never stops and there's no reason for it. Like there's just no reason for it. Why do you think he's antagonizing them? Because they wrecked his bike. Oh, I think, yes, but I think he starts antagonizing them just cause I think he's a, I think he sees them trying to rob that guy. And I think, yes, but I think he starts antagonizing them just because I think he sees them trying to rob that guy. And I think he knows they are in that moment,

bullies or a gang or whatever. Right, but they're just upset with him now because he is going after Frankie. Correct, yes. But it's kind of a three-fold thing, right? Because it's like, it starts off where he foils their robbery. Then the next day, they destroy his fight. Where they were each going to make roughly $3. Right, so they foil foils their robbery. Then the next day, they destroy his bike. Where they were each gonna make roughly $3.

Right, so they foil the $3 robbery. Then they get his bike and destroy it. So now he's mad. So then he steals a car and concocts a pretty elaborate scenario where then he gets them to take his car as like collateral. And then- See, I didn't think,

I thought he came up with that kind in the moment. No, when he saw the car on the side of the road, he was like, got it. Like that, and he went in there to dance with Kim to get them that mad so they would steal the car. Wow, that's a long journey. So then they get arrested.

And then the next morning, he finds a dead rat in his locker and is I huh squirrel Oh, maybe it's a squirrel dead something. It was pretty and that was also very That was another moment of like the violence is is is too much for what he is And then I think the next moment is The guy gets out of jail, sees him with his girl, and now he's like, now we're gonna go beat him up in the gym. And I just wanna call one thing about that gym.

And I, as someone who's been to many a gym, and seen lockers, I really appreciated that the lockers there were drawers. I thought drawers is such a better way to do a locker. Interesting. Instead of a long locker. I liked the drawer idea. Really? Yeah, I thought that that such a better way to do a locker. Interesting. Instead of a long locker. I liked the drawer idea. Yeah, I thought that that was an interesting way

of doing things. Anyway. See, I think you need a long locker so that you can hang a towel inside. Well, why do you need to hang a towel? Why do you need to hang a towel? Oh, I mean, this is in high school. In high school, you needed to have a towel in your locker

so that you could, when you had to take a shower. Wait, wait, but you, wait, first of all, you took a shower in high school? Like, I mean, like. You were, you had to. a shower. Wait, wait, but you, wait, first of all, you took a shower in high school? Like, I mean, like- You were, you had to. In school? Oh, I never did. They made you.

After gym. They made you? After gym class, they made you take a shower. No, we went back, we went back. Oh, that's so weird. Dirty, dirty. Yeah. We did too. Our showers never really worked.

Which like, is gross, but I was like, I would never have stepped into the showers there. I would never take off my clothes and nothing, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. That's horrible, Jason. Wait, but so you're, so you keep a towel in your locker and then like next week when you go back to gym,

it's like that towel has dried out. That towel has dried. Okay. Oh, you don't throw it into a general wash, wow. That I'm also- And it's a towel you bring from home. Okay. Yeah, but then that you're putting a wet towel

back into a tiny area, like that can't be great either. No, no, no, no, I'm sure it's bad. It's very bad. So, but here's my no, I'm sure it's bad. It's very bad. So, but here's my thing like, cause I've thought about this before. When I go to a spa, the robe is always hanging up, but then I will have to take- You're wearing it.

Well, yeah, I put the robe on, but I take off my clothes and put them in the locker, but I always end up just folding them and trying to put them down. There's nothing to hang is what I'm saying. Yes, I see. And so it seems like, like I've had that thought before. I like a drawer.

I mean, I never even like thought of a drawer, but I'm kind of like, yeah, because it's so much extra space. Now I just stayed at a hotel in Williamsburg and very deep closet, no drawers, not a single one. I hate that. Oh, I drawers, not a single one. I hate that. Oh, I'm gonna make a controversial statement. I never use drawers.

What? When I go to a hotel, if I unpack, I unpack onto like a shelf or I wanna be able to see what I have. I wanna be able to see what's there. But don't you afraid of like the housekeeping coming in and looking at your undies? No.

You should be because I went- You think they're looking at my undies? Yes. Me undies? I went on a Carnival cruise when I was in high school. And in the middle of dinner, I went back to the room to grab something and I walked in and there was a gentleman

holding my underwear. What? What? What? Yes. Wait, I don't know if I've heard this story. Yep. What are you taught and what transpired? I closed the door and I walked out.

Oh wow. And did you tell your parents or did you do anything? No, never spoke about it. Wow. Wow. Did you ever see that gentleman again? I don't think so. Okay.

But I was so shaken. Did you ever see that underwear again? I don't think so. But I was so shaken. Did you ever see that underwear again? No, I remember I was like, because I remember what it looked like. And I, I don't know what I did with it. I must, I think I like put it in my suitcase or something, but I also like, I did have to wear the rest of my

underwear and couldn't explain to my parents, like, I know someone because I was too, I of course was embarrassed and didn't want to my parents. Like, I know someone because I was too, I, of course, was embarrassed and didn't want to tell my parents that someone was holding my underwear. I mean, can you imagine walking in? That is crazy. That's why Paul brings up a good point.

Like, to have them out and about, you are kind of asking for it, Jason. Yeah, I guess I'm asking for somebody to just peep through my trunks. Why don't you want to put them in drawers? I'm so confounded. I need somebody to just peep through my trunks. Why don't you want to put them in drawers? I'm so confounded. I think the drawers are dirty.

Oh. I think people are putting dirty clothes in those drawers and nobody ever washes the drawers. Well, of course they're not gonna wash the drawer, but yeah, I hear what you're saying. I think people use like hotel drawers as hampers and they put their dirty clothes in them. I do. So I don't want to put and they put their dirty clothes in them. I do.

So I don't wanna put my clean. Exactly. So I don't know which one you were using as a hamper. And I'll never tell. So it's like, it's the same as like the seat, the pocket in the seat on the airplane in front of you, the back pocket where you put people, you know, I can't, I don't know,

somebody probably just had a dirty diaper in there. Now I'm like, I'm gonna put my phone and my book in there and then like, that's the dirtiest place in the world. Like it's a dark drawer that's full of potentially bacteria that I'm like not gonna throw my clean clothes in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, now I'm so upset about everything. I can't take that on. I'll bring a Lysol wipe and I gotta put stuff in the drawers.

I'm sorry. I also will frequently, I also will frequently just live out of my suitcase. See, that is unsettling. Oh, I can't do that. Sometimes I do, but often I like to. I know, I understand. The minute I get into a room, I like to fully unpack so I can feel like I am in the next, I'm in the zone now.

Like I'm in this place. But I hear what you're saying. I don't think that's really interesting. Now that we're going on tour, Paul, will you think you'll unpack in every city? No, definitely not because that's too short. We're going, I mean, we're popping, I mean, this tour we're on is intense.

Yeah, this is like, I don't, I barely wanna move anything. I almost wanna pick an outfit for the live show that I get into right before the live show and get out of after the live show and just recycle that. I wanna like- And get ready because it's gonna be- Hot. How we ended up with this, I do not know. In the middle of August, we are going to Texas and Louisiana.

Oh my God. It's gonna be 100 degrees with 200% humidity. It's gonna be disgusting. I remember being in Louisiana, shooting a movie down there, and it was like May 2nd. They're like, ooh, you better get out because by the time it gets to the 5th, it's oppressive. And I was like, and it was, it was awful. And I think that, yeah, I think the locals all leave. I think everyone leaves. Yeah. And we're like, we're coming to your town.

We're coming. NOLA, welcome us with open arms. That's why we need some of that Detroit energy, Indianapolis energy. And by the way, some of that Detroit energy, Indianapolis energy And by the way, I know that we've announced at the top of the show But we do have a live virtual show coming up So if you can't make the tour that is at them I just go to the moment house dot com slash HD TGM if you can't remember that just go to HD TGM comm And we'll announce the movie and it'll be a live show. So everyone in London and stuff I know we were talking a lot about this movie.

I want to bring up something from last week's movie. I'll bring that up at the end, but I think it might now be time for Second Opinions. What's up, jerks? I don't know this guy. I need a second, I need a second opinion I watched the plot that you're giving me, gave it the villainy, Holes in the story, you thought that this was your moment in glory You thought that this was prestige, you thought we wouldn't be laughing at these

Pain is by aesthetics and makes, I meaners by settings and babes, I mean. Was it directed by kids, I mean. Was that about a thing you did, I mean. Maybe it wasn't for me. Maybe a few other people agree. Maybe the internet loved it. Let's see, Paul. All right, so thank you for that amazing second opinion theme.

Here's the deal, people. Tough Turf has 78% of five-star reviews. I mean that's a that's a pretty High volume and I have to say if I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised only four percent or one star and there are a lot of Marvel Avenger fans here because of the Easter egg in this movie, which is There's graffiti on one of the walls that says the new Avengers and Robert Downey Jr. stands in front of it. And people think that's odd. That's funny, I didn't realize that.

That's really interesting. And obviously James Spader played Ultron. So this is a prequel to Avengers. Here we are. Isn't that interesting? Those two guys have been working together in some capacity, even if it is. That's so amazing and it's cool.

By the way, this is where they became friends. And then Robert Downey Jr. named his cat Jimmy in honor of James Spader. Oh, wow. By the way, I will say that there are moments like, again, fan of James Spader, like James Spader, but as a 25 year old man, that's just what he is in this movie.

There are moments where if I close my eyes, I'm like, this is Blacklist James Spader. Like this is, like, he delivers some lines just like, now James Spader. Would you guys be surprised to find out that the Blacklist is still on? Oh, I know, because our good friend Connor Ratliff has been on it. He came on our Twitch show, the one that Hubel and I do, and he told us that Connor had

to have a parakeet in a scene. And the way he described, and you can check it out, it's online, we have it up. The way he describes the acting style of James Spader, it's like, seen it all, been there. And the idea was that the parakeet was supposed to go up his arm and land on his big bald head. And he was like, okay, clearly this is not working. What we're going to do is I'm going to place the bird here, we're going to do one take of it, and then we are going to move on.

And it was just very very like like just... I'm not surprised by that at all. ...giving the right stuff but he's like, we're not wasting time. Yeah. Let's not fuck around. And he basically... Has The Blacklist been on for 15 years? I mean, how long? I think it's been on for something close to that. Yeah, I'm gonna Google it right now.

It's like Grey's Anatomy, which also is still on the air at season like 19. Well, I mean, like that show Supernatural has been on forever as well. Is it still on? I think that's finally done. But that was on for, and like you look at the, oh my God, that was on for over a decade. So the Blacklist started in 2013

and it is still on the air. Oh, okay, okay. So it's about 10 years. But that's 10 years, a decade, a decade of the Blacklist. I can't believe that. After he was already on Boston Legal for however long that was on. By the way, it's my understanding of the Blacklist

that it was about this woman and they had to bring in a Hannibal Lecter type of character, Red Reddington, that's James Spader, and James Spader was like the Lecter. His name is Red Reddington, that's James Spader, and James Spader was like the lector. His name is Red Reddington? Oh yes, oh, I just made, this is my favorite thing, Red Reddington. What a name, Red Reddington.

So they bring in Red Reddington to help them solve these bigger crimes, because he's like this Hannibal Lecter genius, and then at a certain point they're like, yeah, we don't care about that girl anymore. Now this show is straight up James Spader is solving crimes. Like he used to be like, we visit him in the jail and he talks to them.

Now he's like out and about running a whole team. Like the show completely reconfigured around Red Reddington. Like it is wild that like, yeah. Reddington, wow. That's like, that's a first draft name. Yeah. And by the way, for their COVID episode, they just did an animated one.

Whoa, really? Yeah. Yeah. Because we have all the, yeah. I love it. They've done some interesting stuff. Like, Connor, again, walked me through all the Blacklist verse.

There's an episode of Dead Eyes, Connor's podcast, all about all of the times he's auditioned for the Blacklist, for all the Blacklist verse. There's an episode of Dead Eyes, Connor's podcast, all about all of the times he's auditioned for the Blacklist for all the different parts. He talks about all the different parts he's auditioned for and didn't get, and then talks to all the actors who did get those parts on the Blacklist. So it's a great, the series is incredible.

And by the way, just so you know, if you can't get enough of the nine seasons of The Blacklist, you can check out their novels. There are Blacklist novels. Wait, that are... Three. Is The Blacklist based on the novels or... No.

Whoa. The other way. So now you can follow Red Reddington's adventures in print? Yes. Oh, boy. Wow. I know what the rest of my summer is gonna be. I'll know what I'll be reading on tour Blacklist the beekeeper number 59 the ring number six. I think he's trying to take down the blacklist

I don't know. But anyway, these are five-star reviews and they're not great I'm gonna just be honest the five-star reviews here are they're just very positive This one is from Frank tire God Frank tire God me. This is Robert from Frank Tyregod. Frank Tyregod, maybe this is Robert Downey's brother who works on cars. Frank Tyregod says, early James Spader and Robert Downey, I am old.

I remember when this movie was a coming attraction and I actually saw it in a theater. Five stars. So not really anything about the acting, just the fact that he remembered it gives himself five stars in a weird way. This one from Helen Damnation, she writes, James Spader and Robert Downey Jr. are deliciously hot.

And at age 13, I thought Kim Richards must have been the most woman in the world. I think probably most beautiful woman in the world. I wish I knew why this one wasn't as popular as the other 80s films, but I enjoy introducing it to people. Five stars, we walk the night. Great music drops in this. There was so many good songs that I'd never heard or was like, what is this?

And then this one I really like from Mike H. Great film and I still watch it from time to time. I'm in my mid to late forties. Hate to say it, but it reminds me a lot of my own high school upbringing. Five stars. True words, true words. I felt the same, you know. And then, and then this one,

which I just like because why not? From Scott Spinage. the Turfus Tough. Scott Spinage? Yeah. Okay, any relation to Red Reddington? Oh, I don't know, maybe. Scotty Spins, you know Scotty Spins. This one is maybe just one visually that I like

because if this is the Turfus Tough, T-O-U-G-H, I'm sorry, I mean, Tough, T-U-F-F. That's all. Oh, that's the whole, that's the whole, you're amazing. Five stars. I love the name. Tough Turf. I mean, it's great. I love Tough Turf.

When I had to like search for it on Amazon, by the way, I woke up, Jason, just so you know, at 4.50 in the morning to watch this film. What are you talking about? I had to fly back from New York yesterday and I was like, Paul was watching it last night and I was on a different time. I was like, I can't stay awake.

Last night, I'm just gonna wake up early. So it was really wild to like get up and like get coffee and sit and like drink water because I'm so dehydrated and watch this movie. But I was searching. For like two hours. For two hours, it was so long. My children woke up and I was like,

you can't watch this with me, like go on your iPads. But I had to at like 450 search for tough turf. And I knew it in my head, but I couldn't find my phone or anything to look at how that was spelled. And it was such a wild name to search for because it's not exactly what you think it is. Yeah, it's a little, it's spelled in the-

A little bit different. By the way, I'm finding more Blacklist facts as we're talking here. There are 10 issues of a comic series of The Blacklist. It has produced novels, comics, TV shows. Where's the podcast? I bet you there has to be a Blacklist podcast. I'm sure there is.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a Blacklist spinoff or maybe they've tried and it didn't work, I don't know. Oh, there's so many Blacklist podcasts. Believe in The Blacklist, The Blacklist podcast, The Blacklist, oh, this is all- I guess I meant like a sanctioned view. No, no, there are sanctions. These are fan ones,

and it looks like there is one official one, but they all are pictures of Red Reddington. And they are all, these are not, this is, this is, this is it. And the- So many people. Look at this, the Blacklist Exposed is the 2017 Academy of Podcasters award-winning TV

and film podcast that looks at the world of Red Reddington and all of his criminal enterprises. Wow. Wow. Oh my god. And then this one, there's another, that's, that's The Blacklist Exposed. Watching Paul read and discover this information, I, listeners, I only wish you wish you could see the unadulterated joy in Paul's face. I just love when there's something like this that is like... You know what it is? Whenever there's a real nerdy culture around something that is more mainstream, I love it.

I'm like, oh wow, you don't get this for Chicago fire. No offense of Chicago fire You know, it's like that even law and order can't pull this off Yes, the deep it's it is really interesting to think about and I'd love to hear from our audience How many of you are blacklist watchers, right? How many people never see how many millions and millions of people must to have kept on the air, on network TV for this long? It must be massively popular. So to think that I today, what, June 30th, 2022, heard the name Red Reddington for the first time. For other people, they've spent a decade in the trenches with Red Reddington.

Just in the trenches. Red Reddington. Just in the trenches. They grew up with him. Grew up with him. They listened to the podcast. They grew up, yeah. They were like, I started watching Red Reddington in high school and now I have a child. I'm in my 20s.

You know? Like their lives, like, well, you know, it's shocking. We've been doing, how did this get made longer than the Blacklist? Just barely. Just barely. By the way, the Blacklist is getting about three million viewers an episode, which in this day and age is pretty high. And for a show that long in the tooth, it's incredibly high. This is what I always think about.

And I'm looking at all these lists of TV shows that have been on for a very long time, and there's tremendous. And, you know, when I think about like John Francis Daly, great funny guy, great writer, who was on that David Boreanis show. Bones? Bones, and he was the jargon guy. He was the funny lab guy like him and Carla Gallo,

like really fun people. But I'm just thinking about this idea when you're on a show like Star Trek and you're that character character and you gotta put on the six hours of makeup every day. Well that is a different thing. And then you're still doing an hour long. Just to say like the warp drive is down.

Yes, there's no easy in, easy out. It's like I'm putting on Klingon makeup and I'm going, I mean that was the premise of our Human Giant sketch where my character was like wharf on a show And I was so upset about it that I got myself I got surgically implanted into my my skin and then the show gets canceled and then I have to try to find work as An actor with like this fucked up unpainted at Klingon face

But oh, so this is what I want to talk to you about So we got a great call in the last episode of last books. I saw in last, this is, this is the, yeah, that's the, that's the episodes that last looks, that's what we call it. Looks okay. Last looks is what the mini episodes are now. So we got a phone call here, and this person brought up something that I did not know.

Okay. Let's play that. Hi Paul, this is Lauren from San Francisco. I have an admission for Until We Meet Again. Was hoping you guys would mention the last shot of the movie where Eddie shows up in the audience of Lisa's concerto performance. It's the last half second of the movie,

he's shrouded in darkness, but he purposefully turns his head just enough before the movie fades to black, you can tell it's him, and then she turns to look at him with a surprised look on her face. What was the movie trying to do here? Is this meant to tell us that he's back after all and they get a happy ending? Does this concert take place in the afterlife where she and he are long since dead? It's so perplexing to me. I absolutely have to know what you think of it.

Thank you so much and until we meet again. I don't remember. I don't remember until we meet again. The piano movie? Did you look? Well, I wrote it down and I was too nervous to say it because it's like, oh, now you're just going to think. Oh, you did notice it.

Because the camera does linger on a face in the audience. And I was like, wait a second. So this movie says that he did figure out a way to get back from the dead Like he is core or he or he was just as a ghost able to go and watch her perform What do you say? Oh, well, I mean, I thought the idea was that he couldn't go hang around it. I don't know Yeah, that's I agree Anyway for all of us to kind of miss it and not to be a big part of the, maybe I think it could have been directed a little bit better, but it is in there.

I didn't notice that at all. First of all, I'm so confused. I thought we were talking about the piano locksmith movie with John Cusack. Oh yeah, no. Okay, the piano, until we meet again, the ghost movie. Yes. Yes.

So Molly says that he just said that he went to the afterlife book and come down to watch her play, but he is corporeal, like he is taking up a seat in the- Did he buy a seat? I mean, it looks like he bought a seat. I mean, it's pretty crowded. It would be funny. It would have been better if he had been sitting

on someone's lap. Yes. Who didn't realize he was there. And a lot of people bring it up to me, have brought it up to me, and I will acknowledge it, that yes, I worked with Jackson Rathbone. He was great. He was in an NTSF episode. He was really fantastic.

Oh, nice. And also, Spice is Real. Spice is Real as a synthetic marijuana that caused a lot of problems for a lot of people. Oh, that's right. So just a couple of things. But again, yeah. I think somebody said that last week when we were,

or last time when we were recording, someone said it in the chat. So there's a lot of good, a lot of good last looks teases there. Anyway, wow. We got tough trip out of the way. It was just to bring it back to this movie for a brief second.

It really is like, we talked about like how this movie really vacillates jarringly between high school style kind of hijinks and ruthless violence. No more a better example than the final scene in the warehouse where Spader fights Nick, seems to kill him. And then it's hard cut to toe tap in, to toe tap in R&B band.

Look at you. Yeah, and we cut back to live band dance sequence. Well, by the way, the original end was them all taking the SATs and Kim Richards going, I'm not smart enough. And then they kind of fade out on that, which is darker. That was the original end. So I think they just cut this music number

where they all seemed like, Robert Downey Jr. seems to not have seen James Spader, like, oh, we murdered that guy. This is the first time we're getting together at the live band. They were... Yeah, I was like, I don't understand how you cut to this, this like red dress.

We're all dressed up, getting ready to have a dance again. Like, aren't they, mustn't they be haunted by what they've seen and done? Or by the police anyway. I will say this. Tough Turf came out in 1985. It has a 17% of Rotten Tomatoes, but a 60% audience score, which is higher. The log line is, where enemies are made,

reputations are earned, and love is the most risky affair of all. Now, check it out. The budget was 1.5. Domestic gross was 9.3. The top three movies of 85 back to the future Beverly Hills cop and Rambo first blood now This movie came in a hundred and fourth place

but it was beaten by all these other how did this get made movies a view to a kill Ladyhawk life force and This movie beat break into Jim Cotter and that Tom Selleck movie runaway. So it wasn't into Jim Cotta and that Tom Selleck movie Runaway. So it wasn't, it was successful. It did something. I mean, it was successful. Certainly a budget at one point, whatever. And then it made nine. I mean, and I bet it made money on video.

Yeah. So tough turf. I can't believe I never saw this tough turf. I know. Somebody was really up my butt online about doing this movie and I'm glad that we did. I mean, I would recommend it. Would you both recommend it?

I would. It is too long. It is absolutely too long. I'm trying to think of what I would tell someone to fast forward. If you took out all the musical numbers, it's an hour and 30, for sure. Because there's like about five.

Because it's like, there's not a lot of plot. It's not boring. But you do sit through the musical numbers like, okay. There's full songs. Like Jim Carroll does like three songs, I feel like. Yes, they play full songs. If you fast forward when you see a live band, if you don't want that's a safe place.

But the music is good though too. I was just gonna say the music is good, so I don't necessarily think you need to do this, but that is areas you could fast forward because if they start playing a song, guess what? They're gonna play the full song. And I will say that the songs are shot cool. Like they intercut them really interesting.

And by the way, you can get the whole Tough Turf soundtrack for only like 14 bucks on Amazon. Like, this movie looks good. Like, again, it doesn't seem... It's not like it's Tammy and the T-Rex. No, it was done well. Or that Ed Burns dinosaur movie we just saw. Oh my God, yeah, I remember. You know, like, this movie feels akin to those 80s teen movies in a way that I was into.

You know, it just is too long. Obviously, we're going on tour. Go to HDTGM.com to find out where we'll be. But it's being August. We're in the hottest cities. We're coming up the Midwest. Tell your friends about it. Bring them all out.

If you can't make it out to the tour, come check us out live virtually. All these shows are one of a kind. A brand new movie, every single show. We cut all out. If you can't make it out to the tour, come check us out live virtually. All these shows are one of a kind. A brand new movie, every single show. We cut stuff out. It is an experience. We're not just getting on stage and talking into microphones. I mean, we are, but we also are doing other things

that give you a very unique experience. Come out to the tour, please, you know, get out there. If I'm gonna get on an airplane, you guys gotta get in the seats, come on. Yeah, that's, I mean, Jason, when I heard Jason on the Howard Stern wrap-up show this week, when you said, I'm about get on an airplane, you guys gotta get in the seats. Come on. Yeah, that's I mean Jason when I heard Jason on the Howard Stern wrap-up show this week when you said I'm about a year behind Everyone I was like people don't even understand what this means that you are going out on the road like support support Jason here

alright people I want to give a big shout out and a thank you to our producers Cody Fisher and Molly Reynolds, our engineer and maestro, Jack of all trades, Devon Bryant, our producers sitting in this week, Matt Apodaca, our publisher, Delia Diaz, of course our producer, Avril Halle, who found this movie, gave it to us, cut these clips. Avril's been working overtime at finding all these movies for all these shows that we're trying to do and we can't be thankful enough. Nate Kiley coming in hot, giving us all the research at the last minute's notice. Uh, I love this team that we have.

And I also want to give a big thanks to the ghost of Craig D. Nelson on Instagram. He does all of our amazing art as well as Kyle Waldron. You can find all of our episodes ad free on Stitcher premium. But if you are a fan of the show, please follow us on Apple Podcasts. Check out our cheap public store and most importantly, keep on telling your friends. So we will see you next time. Bye for now.