I am Charles Schwartz Show - Build Instant Connection with Improv

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

David Razowsky joins this episode to reveal how the principles of improvisation go far beyond the stage—transforming the way we communicate, lead, and build relationships in business and life. As the former artistic director of Second City and a coach to some of the biggest names in comedy, David has spent decades mastering the art of presence, adaptability, and deep connection. In this conversation, he breaks down why improvisation isn’t about being funny—it’s about being fully engaged in the moment. He shares powerful insights on how reading body language, responding to energy shifts, and embracing uncertainty can help anyone become a stronger communicator, a more effective leader, and a better decision-maker. David doesn’t just teach improv—he teaches awareness. He reveals why most people fail in communication (hint: they’re too focused on themselves), how to instantly build rapport, and why business leaders, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs need to ditch rigid scripts in favor of real connection. Whether you’re leading a team, pitching an idea, or negotiating a deal, this episode will challenge you to rethink how you show up in every interaction. David’s raw, unfiltered approach will change the way you communicate—and ultimately, how you succeed. Key Takeaways: * Why improvisation is the ultimate skill for leadership, negotiation, and personal growth. * The secret to reading the room and responding to people in real-time. * How to break free from rigid scripts and build authentic connections. * The role of body language, tempo, and micro-expressions in communication. * Practical exercises to sharpen your adaptability and presence. Head over to podcast.iamcharlesschwartz.com to download your exclusive companion guide, designed to guide you step-by-step in implementing the strategies revealed in this episode. KEY POINTS: 2:11 - Connecting Emotionally: David explains why true connection starts with emotional presence. Whether in business, leadership, or personal interactions, people respond to authenticity—not scripted responses. 6:01 - Meet Them Authentically: David highlights the importance of meeting people where they are instead of forcing an agenda. He shares how adaptability and active listening create stronger relationships and better outcomes. 12:15 - Overcoming Fear: Fear stops people from taking risks, speaking up, and engaging fully. David reveals how improvisation helps break through hesitation and teaches confidence in uncertainty. 16:10 - Embrace Your Failures: Mistakes aren’t roadblocks—they’re the path to mastery. David discusses why failure is essential for growth and how shifting your mindset around it can accelerate success. 17:42 - Kinesthetic Response Explained: Your body reacts before your brain does. David introduces the concept of kinesthetic response—how small physical shifts reveal what people are truly thinking and feeling, and why recognizing these cues is a game-changer in communication. 39:01 - Importance of Presence: Being fully engaged in the moment is a superpower. David explains how presence leads to better conversations, deeper connections, and more effective leadership. 44:44 - Body Language Importance: Communication isn’t just about words—body language, micro-expressions, and nonverbal cues shape every interaction. David shares how to read and respond to these signals for more impactful communication.

Welcome to the I Am Charles Schwartz show. In this episode, we dive into the transformative power of improvisation with David Rozowski, a renowned improv coach, former Second City Artistic Director, and author of The Subversive's Guide to Improvisation. David has worked with some of the biggest names in comedy, from Steve Carell and Stephen Colbert to Amy Sedaris and Chris Farley. But his insights go far beyond the stage. Improvisation isn't just about being funny. It's about presence, awareness, and the ability to connect deeply with others.

David reveals how mastering improvisation can sharpen communication, strengthen leadership, and even drive success in business. He breaks down the critical skill of reading the room, why most people try too hard and fail, and how showing up authentically creates instant connection. Whether you're leading a team, negotiating a deal, or simply looking to improve your interactions, these lessons will change how you engage with the world. This conversation is raw, insightful, and unapologetically real.

If you've ever wondered how to think on your feet, make an impact, and truly be in the moment, you don't want to miss this one. The show starts now. Welcome to the I am Charles Schwartz show, where we don't just discuss success, we show you how to create it. On every episode, we uncover the strategies and tactics that turn everyday entrepreneurs into unstoppable powerhouses in their businesses and their lives. Whether your goal is to transform your life or hit that

elusive seven, eight, or nine figure mark, we've got the blueprint to get you there. The show starts now. All right, Ria, welcome back. I'm really excited to have Dave on the show. Thank you so much for being here. It's great to be here. So for a lot of people, they don't know who you are.

They don't know what you do. Let's get everybody kind of caught up for the people who've been living under a rock. Who are you? What have you done? My name is David Ruzowski, and I teach improvisation. I have been known and I hate this phrase. Somebody said that it's like Ruzowski's the improv guru because what I do isn't just teach improvisation. I teach about being aware, being in the moment, connecting, really connecting to the person that you're talking to. I wrote a book called The Subversive Guide to Improvisation, which has shaken up a

lot of the improv world because I'm saying things like improvisation isn't just about getting laughs, it's about connecting to people on an emotional level. And if you start out by trying to give people, to make people laugh, to make people like you, the first thing that you're going to do is you're going to turn them off because they see it coming. They just see it coming a million miles away. Most improvisation, as we talked about a little earlier when people weren't listening to you and me, is most improvisation is crap. And it's just horrible and it's really, really hard to watch.

Why? Because people are trying too hard. They're just trying too hard. Can you just for a minute be? Can you just be for a minute? Just don't worry about what the outcome is. Just be with me for a minute be? Can you just be for a minute? Just don't worry about what the outcome is, just be with me for a minute. So I go around the world teaching theatrical improvisation, non comedic improvisation. And I got to tell you, the scenes are hilarious because everybody's

being honest and truthful. And in the moment, a little bit about my background, I was in a place called the second city, which has been called the Harvard of improvisation. The people that I worked with, we do sketch, we create improvisation scene and we create the sketch scenes, comedy scenes through improvisation. So that means that we're riding on our feet. We're learning how to connect. We're doing it in the moment. And the people that I work with are people like Steve Carell, Stephen Colbert, Amy Sedaris,

Rachel Dratch. I was coached for Chris Farley. I've worked with them all, all of them, eventually becoming the artistic director of the Second City in Los Angeles. I've been doing theatrical, I'm 65 years old. I've been doing this since I was 10 and I am not to be screwed with because I just love what I do. And I stopped caring and the moment that I really stopped caring, I started making money. And yeah,

one of the reasons that I wanted to bring you on because you're like, you know, why are we talking improv? We improv at every moment of every day of our life and connecting. It's about knowing your purpose and it's showing up authentically. And we talked about this before we started recording that you and I communicate with each other in a very specific way. It's fast, it's simple.

And we have to filter it a little bit here because people get upset and Apple blocks things. So this is a little bit of the filtered version of Dave and I in this one. But what I was talking about was in business, people need to have a communicate like this on the fly. They need to be able to connect with their audience. They need to build rapport.

You need whatever it is, if it's a negotiation or if you're selling something or if you're leading a team, there's so much of the skillset that you have that translates significantly better off stage than I would even say on stage. So you through that and you have people, what are some of the first things you teach them other than don't try and be funny?

What are some of the things that you walk in and say, how do you build that connection? How do you show up authentically? I started teaching it. I teach an online, I teach, every day I teach classes every single day online. And I started, I had a beginner's class yesterday and same beginner's class that I have all the time.

And this is it. I am going to sit in yesterday and the same beginner's class that I have all the time. And this is it. I am going to sit in this position, whatever it's going to be, I'm just going to sit here and you're going to look at me and you're going to assume what it is that I'm feeling in the moment that you see me. So if I'm sitting here with, I've got my hand on my chin and my eyebrows are furled like this. I look concerned, right?

So the first thing I want to do is not to go out is to go. Here's the thing. Nothing comes out of my mouth that first hasn't been dipped in my heart. Think about it. You look at somebody, you empathize with them, you reach them on an emotional level. You meet them where they are. You don't pull them to where you want to be. Because if you pull them to where you want to be because if you pull them to where you want to be, they're not going to go. The first thing that goes like, get your hands off me. So the first thing that I teach them is read your partner, emotionally read your partner, be in relationship to what you see, not what you want. Because the only source of suffering is non-acceptance. The greatest thing you could do is accept the person that's in front of you,

what they're offering in that moment. But part of it isn't the end result. It's about being in the moment. You want their money. Yeah, you want their money, get their money. Great. But you know what? That's not, that's not your purpose.

Your purpose is to make an emotional connection at the beginning and the money will come, man. The money will come. I think if your goal is this, you have to eliminate their pain. If you want the profit, you have to eliminate their pain. If you want their profit, you have to eliminate their pain. But in order to do that, you have to, as you just said, meet them where they are. Had that conversation.

What is Suzy going on with right now? How is she showing? Learning how to read those micro expressions, learning how to read body language, learning how to understand that what comes out of your face, if you say banana and somehow she's triggered by banana, you've got to be able to read her body language. Oh, I said banana and her eyes crossed or she scratched her ear or whatever the heck it is. Okay, I've triggered her.

So it's, I'd love to just say meet them where they are. You didn't say meet them where you are and drag them through it. No, no, no. And one of the things that, so I was, when I was the artistic director of Second City, I was asked by one of the most famous improv, I'm sorry, one of the most famous theaters in Chicago,

Steppenwolf Theater, where John Malkovich came in, and like all the, Laurie Matcap, they all came from there. And I was asked to teach non-theatrical improvisation for them, and they turned me onto this one concept, which are called the viewpoints. And there are nine viewpoints. And the nine viewpoints, I know it sounds hyperbolic, but it codifies everything.

The nine viewpoints, how you're standing, how you're sitting, how you're moving, how you're talking, what's your tempo, how much are you quiet. It codifies every one of those things. So then when you're looking at somebody, I'm watching you right now, Charles, and you're nodding and you're nodding connects with me. And that's called gesture. You're nodding, it connects with me and you're saying, and that's a gesture. And I'm talking at this elevated

tempo which is one of the viewpoints right it's one of the viewpoints and it's an elevated tempo and it it charges you it connects with you and so when I teach improvisation the first thing I do is teach this theatrical trick and it's a Rosetta stone the The Rosetta stone is this, how is your partner sitting? That's called shape. How are they leaning? Are they coming? The moment that you say something, you recognize kinesthetic response in them because you said banana. And if they if they have a kinesthetic response to banana, you go, I'm going down the banana. I'm going down the banana route. I'm going on the fucking banana route. It's Molly. Right. Did you see my kind of said it's gone to that swear? I went to be in the moment and

listening. If you are you're going my plan is this you're missing out on what's happening now. Yes. And it's about marrying there in how you interact with them and understanding because you and I talk about our tempos very happening now. Yes. And it's about marrying there and how you interact with them and understanding, because you and I talk, our tempo is very quick. The way that we have, this is just who we are. If we bring in Lucy and she talks more like this, and this is how she communicates and she slows things down,

we're going to slow with it. We're going to meet where she is. We're not, as you said earlier, meet them where they are. Don't drag them. We are trying to get there because so many people come in and they're like, oh, I've got this thing. I'm gonna negotiate on this. This is my sales pitch. But if the person is a 90 year old person and they operate at this speed at this level,

you've lost them. You're never gonna close that deal ever. Well, you know what this is like. Now I have a podcast called ADD Comedy with David Chesky. The name was, I just came into it with the name. And one of the things that I noticed is when I would have a guest on and they had a project and it was a friend of mine, say it was a friend of mine who just did a movie.

And they had a project and I'm like, so how's it going? You know, what's going on? How are you? I know you just had a baby. And it's like, yeah, I just had a baby. And then they click into, I have to, I have to sell my product. Yeah, but the moment that I was starting to do and don't drop the soap, the toilet drama that I have the prison drama that I have, then CBS, and I got about 10 times out time, time, time, time, time, time, just like, Hey, hey, hey, Donnie, where are you? You're no longer connected with me. And at that point, I

don't want to have a relationship with you. And I think the same business as well. If you're coming there's so many times I was doing intro calls, you know, this we do intro calls before we talk to someone because we want to make sure you have rapport. I got on the call with somebody I've known before, and he gets on the calls like, Hey, what's been going on? And he is just his gut. He just destroyed because his father's died. For an hour and a half, we didn't talk about

anything that he wanted to pitch anything he wanted to bring on podcasts, anything you want to share, we talked about stat, we talked about what's going on in his environment. And we connect on that because we built a report. We did record the podcast. It was just a mate has been released yet. But it's amazing because it was connected, spent the time to meet them where they are. And I think people do that. I don't think they have the report. So if someone's gonna learn how to do this,

can you can you hold that box? I just want to say one thing about that. Very often when I'm asked to be on a podcast, the Pearson tells me what it is that they're the podcast is about. My first thought is, I'm not going to do that, because we're just gonna have a conversation and we're gonna go where we're gonna go. It's like, yeah, but there's gonna be a time like I got a bunch of questions, like, I don't want to see your questions ahead of time. Because if you've got a

question, you've got a structure. And if you've got a structure, I'm an improviser, and I follow the shiny object. You know, I'm a crow. I'm not a train. You know, I don't want to circle and circle. It's like, Oh, my God, there's something shiny. And so periodically, I'll do what I just did with you, which is, you know, you want to go forgive me, but it's like, I'm inspired by what you said, and you know, it because of the connection that we had.

But people don't know how to do that. Like for, I think, you know, for you and I, for whatever reason, it's how we authentically show up. There's a lot of people that are so caught up in their own crap that they're like, Oh, I've got a question. I've got to stay on the question. I've got to do this. And you see it, you know, you're talking about Stephen Colbert before where

he's got the questions, the Stephen Colbert questions about what is your sandwich, what is this, what is that? What is it? And he's got a, he's got a very small part that he's gonna go about six minutes to blast through that. And he's trying to do this tactical empathy. He's trying to engage with, oh yeah, peanut butter and jelly. That's a good sandwich.

And you know he's just struggle busing through that idea. When he wants, it just, it sucks cause you're stuck on that train track versus to your point being a crow. How do we teach people to get the heck off the train tracks? How do we teach people to actually show up? What is it Charles? What is it that stops people from doing what it is that they're inspired to do that they're compelled to do? It's fear. It's fear. And the moment and here's fear. I don't know if you ever read the book, the war of art, not the

art of war, the war of art. The war of art is about, do you have a project, what do you wanna do? It's the guy who wrote Bagger Vance, the guy who wrote the screenplay for Bagger Vance, the war of art. And he says there's one thing that gets in the way of what you're doing. Say that you wanna be a writer. What's the first thing that most people do?

I better take a writing class, or there's a book on writing. I better take another writing class. I better have a writing partner. It's like, so what is that one thing? That one thing? That one thing is called resistance. And it's resistant every single step of the way. What is it that you want?

And what's stopping you? And here's the thing that you learn in improvisation. The word no doesn't mean no. And I'm not getting, you know, I'm not saying I'm not saying that the word no is not the word no is it's it's not gonna kill you it's a stopping point it's a stop sign and when you have a stop sign you stop and you go what are my options now what do I have on the table now what is it because all that they said was no they didn't say we know where you live and we know where your child goes to grammar school. We're not gonna let your kid on fire we're not gonna blow up your room. No.

Because we can stop all of this and pivot. I don't think people even had a pivot. I think that so let's go let's go to the pivot let's go to the pivot when you recognize that somebody has to pivot that moment that you pivot you didn't expect that moment that you have to pivot so what does that ask you to do? It asks you to be inspired to go, how else can I look at this thing? And why am I afraid of not looking at it? Because I don't know what's gonna come next. Well, you know what?

And you said it earlier. We improvise every day we improvise. And I don't know what's gonna come earlier. Anybody who's watching, I'm sorry, anybody who's listening to this podcast now might've had an idea of what this is going to be like and we just proved them wrong. Absolutely. And they're not, and maybe they're not going to know what's going to happen. And that's what I love because we're just going to be and be, and I'm not going to drag you where I want you to be. You're not going to, and we're going to play back and forth. It's a, it's a tennis match, but people don't have this skill. And I think you're right. They're terrified. They're so afraid to mess up. I mess up or even get out of bed. I might, I brush my teeth the wrong way. I mean, it is what it is.

You're just, yeah, it's the, it's the song of a woman. Uh, what was it? He goes, when you, when you're tangoing and you get tied up, you just keep tangoing on. It's just keep going. For sure. And, and nothing that we do, nothing that we know how to do didn't come with us failing, didn't come with us falling. We know how to walk because we learn how to fall. That's how we do it. And, and so, so I'm going to tell you, if you look at the road, if you look at the road that brought you right here, having a conversation with me, I'm going to

say there were five things that you were disappointed in that you pivoted that brought you with me, I'm going to say there were five things that you were disappointed in that you pivoted that brought you to me. That brought me to zero into the back of that. I think there's a lot of things I've failed. I tell those people all the time, the only way to succeed is to fail. You got to fail your way. Absolutely. Just like we're talking, no one sits here and looks at their kid and says, oh, here's little Billy. And they fall down 10 times like, well, that's it. We're just going to get him a wheelchair. We don't do that. He's got to figure out how to freaking 100%. Right. When somebody can't walk, when somebody doesn't know how to walk, the first thing you don't, the first thing, the first thing you don't do is look for wheelchairs

for them. Right. You go, we're going to figure out how to make you, we're going to figure out how to walk unless there's something wrong with them. Right. And then there's ways that there's things you can do with that as well. But we don't do that. Our school system rips that out. They're like, oh, you didn't get a good grade. You're going to detention. You're a failure.

They take a lot of failure. I remember I was working with a guy who was a special force guy, really nice guy. He said to us, your fear is your short life. It's what's going to bring you home. Whatever you're afraid of. That's what you need to do next. It's a non-negotiable. And- And I think the thing right there is to go,

is not to think of what the circle, not to think about what the consequences are if you don't do it. That thing that scares you, you go, that's gonna scare me. That scares me. Okay, let's just take that thing. That scares me. It's not, that scares me, which means that I might not be able to, which means I won't be able to, which means I'm going to

be able to like those things are all fantasy. That definitely is worrying. Worrying is, worrying is rehearsing for something that you hope doesn't happen. And it's like, take that thing and go because you're going to keep coming back to that. I got to do, I gotta do this. And you go down the plate. And every time you do that, that you go, this is what I have to do. Just bloody do it. Yes, look like an idiot, make the mistakes. Who cares? You're not gonna, you're gonna die one day, sooner or later.

I spent eight years in a hospice watching people die. Sooner or later, you're gonna die. It is what it is. This is probably not gonna kill you. Not getting that deal, not having good conversations, not hitting on the girl and getting her phone number, not getting the job. It's not going to be, and you're not going to remember it. Take it from someone who's failed a lot more than he succeeded.

It's going to, it is what it is. So if we've got someone, we got them two things right now, right? We've got them to say, show up where they are, meet them where they are. Throw that out of the window. When you teach people, what are some of the exercises? They say, listen, these are bulletproof. These just work. These are proven.

We know this works come hell or high water. If I've got someone who's got paralysis with this, what do you walk them through? How do you make them do whatever they're going to do? I'll give it a go. Okay. Let's say, um, well, first I'm going to tell them, first I'm going to let them know about something called the kinesthetic response. Kinesthetic response is something that happens physiologically in your body when some kind

of stimulus comes in. And the stimulus could be whatever. It could be a smell of fart. It could be a smell of chocolate chip cookies. It could be somebody saying your name. It could be you hear a gunshot or a shot or something like that. It stops you in your tracks. It takes your breath away.

It takes your breath away. It takes your breath away. You know, because if one of the things that I say is when your respiration changes, it's because your inspirations change. So what I will have these people do is I'll go, all right, all right, let's do this. Let's just do this. There's a lot. There's just way too much going on. Okay. Do you ever go to overnight camp? Yep. And they'll go, no, this is that. This is the exercise. That's how good of an actor. Like, have you ever been overnight camp? And someone will go, no, I never was.

It's like, did you have friends go into overnight camp? And they'll go, yeah. It's like, what did you like about it? Just like, how, what was that like going to knowing that all your friends are going to have the summertime of going to overnight camp and they would just, they, I was distracting them. And what I'm looking for in that distraction, in that journey that they're going down is for this. And it happens every single time, Charles, they're going to say a word that's going to stop them.

And they're going to have a kinesthetic response to something. And the first thing I do is I go, look what you just did. You were in flow. The moment that you knew that there, the moment that you thought that there was no product that you had to deliver or nothing that you had to show, you were, you were, now let's talk about the audience. Did you all watch him have that kinesthetic response? Did you all watch him pumper at that one word, whatever it was, bathing suit or whatever it was.

And it's like, yeah, it's like, that's, that's our Northern star. That's the moment that we go, tell me about bathing. Like, why did that bother you? And then suddenly, they are affected by something, they're having a conversation that they didn't know they're about to have. They're investing in something that they didn't think that they were going to invest in. I don't mean financially, I mean, giving energetically and everybody is walking away from something with an experience that they didn't have before. So the first thing that I teach them is be aware of your body. And how do we do that? The inflow alone, you know, I'm going to give you some, it appears that there's no, there's

no risk. There's no risk. We're just, we're just talking, which is yammering. That's all. And it doesn't, that's no risk. We're just, we're just talking. We're just yammering. That's all. And if it doesn't, that's cool too. But I think again, it goes back to what you said. It's not about you. In this situation, be in the flow of yourself, but also be the other person and say, okay, what happened there? What did they do? Did their eyebrows just shoot up? Did they look away? They throw their arms back? What's going on? Because they're giving you signals.

We're coding. Everything that you just said, eyebrows going up. That's that, you know, that's a gesture. They move back. That's called spatial relationship. Their body change. That's called shape. And the more that, you know, going in that we are we we are we are expressing ourselves with our body. More than that, you go far more than Absolutely. 100%. And so when I teach people that I'm going, what if you what if what if what

if the goal the end goal wasn't to get a laugh? What if the end goal was just to have just just a land with and hang out with somebody for two minutes? And I'm gonna get I could do that. It's like, okay, great. That's called improvisation. And she but I think so many people on improv or not on stage are so focused on being the trend, right? Being on that rails. This is what I have to do.

I'm so stuck on this very organized way of doing it that you just don't let go. And it screws up in business, it screws up in negotiations, it screws up improv. I also think that, and we were talking about this beforehand, there are certain people who are gifted, beautiful geniuses when it comes to improv.

And then there's the rest of the planning because there are certain things you gotta know that you don't make a fish climb a tree. There's certain things I just don't do. It just is what it is. I am six feet tall with size 13 feet. I cannot dunk a basketball to save my life. I don't get on a basketball court.

I'm just not good at it. I've made peace with the fact that I am not a good basketball player. Now, you give me a baseball, I used to be able to throw it at 92 miles an hour. Cool. This works. I'm not going to sit there and beat myself down and try and beat LeBron James. I'm just not good at it. So knowing that if your gifts are, hey, I'm a great improv guy. Awesome. I'm a great sales guy. Awesome. I'm not a great mechanic. Don't go be a mechanic Get the hell off the stage. You're just not funny leave. Don't be the sales guy if you suck at it pay someone what if But here's the but here's the thing

Because I want everybody to do improvisation And I will take anybody on I will take anybody on and as as an as an improv coach as an improv director as an Improv teacher as an improv actor. I will take anybody on and as an improv coach, as an improv director, as an improv teacher, as an improv actor, I will play with anybody because I feel like I can connect with you on the level that you're good. I can connect with you at the place that you're going to. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Okay, go. So I think what you just said there was it doesn't matter. I'm going to show up and I'm going to meet them there and I can help and I can connect with anyone. And I think in business, people don't do that. People say, Oh, well, this person, I, we have different backgrounds. Shut up. What is your ability to connect? If you can, even if you completely digress, agree with each other, because right now we're recording this and there's some political changes going on. Even if you fundamentally disagree with the other side, don't try and agree with them. Just try and connect. If you can connect, then you can win the war. I have a neighbor, he's right over there. I have a neighbor who is of a very different political

bend than I am and is very, very vocal and dresses the dress and wears a hat. All right. So he's my neighbor. He's my neighbor. And salt of the earth. You and I can talk about it. I got my hands three feet away. You know, I like we, you and I can talk three feet with my neighbor. I could talk an inch, but there's that edge. Yes. Find the inch and you're going to find the inch by meeting them at their don't drag them to your inch. This has got really no, don't go to your kids, go to his, it's not the inch. And you're gonna- Find the inch. By meeting them at their, don't drag them to your inch. This has got really- Nope. Don't drag them to your inch.

Go to his inch, it's not your inch. Right, right. Yeah. So, you know, we connect, he's a chef, we love food. He's got a cat, we've got cats. I bought a guitar the other day. He's got the same exact guitar, a Martin D15. You know, like the same exact guitar.

So it's like, let's jam. It's like, let's jam, but I ain't singing some songs that you want to sing. And I don't expect you to sing the songs that I want to sing. Right. Don't force your truth upon someone else. Meet someone. No, and it's also, I'm not here for that.

I'm not here for that, man. So in business though, when we do this, when someone's trying to do this, one of the mistakes I see all the time is they're forcing their narrative. So they're not meeting the person where they are. They're not see the room where, you know, we do this in negotiation. The thing that you think is really important for your negotiation, they don't fucking care. They couldn't, they couldn't possibly care in any way, shape or form.

You have to find out that, Hey, if you're negotiating for this building and in this negotiation, we're going back and forth and this was their building. This was their thing. You say, listen, I know you don't want to leave this. This was your mother's legacy. I'm going to make sure in contract I know you don't want to leave this. This was your mother's legacy. I'm going to make sure in contract we'll put in here, the building will be named after your mother for perpetuity forever. She has to agree.

All of a sudden I'm going to get that for a million dollars less than somebody else because I identified their pain. And I did that by spending the time to connect with them and read their body language and do those things. And people think, Oh, well improv is just for stage. No, you putz. You improv every moment of every day. None of this was prepared.

You just... No, no, this is for practice. One of the goals in improvisation, in any improvisation, is to make this... I'm sure that there's a meeting point here, but to make what it is that you're improvising look like it was written. It's to improvise at such a level that your flow is authentic. And the way that you do that is you make sure that everything you're about to say comes

out of your heart, comes out of empathy, comes out of the feeling that you feel in the moment you feel those feelings. And the important thing, one of my mantras is feel the feelings you're feeling the moment you feel those feelings. Which means that feelings are fluid. And when they're fluid, when we understand they're fluid, and just because I'm holding onto it for a moment doesn't mean that I have to hold onto it forever,

because I have to be ready for something to happen that is going to throw me off, that is gonna make me pivot. But at that moment, that's why I'm doing this. Yes, I'm doing it for the money, but I'm also doing it to go, I'm gonna connect with you and feel what you're feeling in that moment and pivot in that moment.

And if you don't connect and you don't embrace pivot, consistent pivot, you lose. I talk to us all the time. Opportunities of a lifetime only matter in the lifetime of the opportunity period because it's going to go and it's going to pivot out. You're talking about exercises in your book and I got access to your book and I was going through those. Could you walk people through something they could do even if they're just listening to this right now or watching you and I go back and forth?

What are some of the exercises as you walk through that get people to go, okay, I get it. I have to know how to connect. I've never been able to do that for whatever reason. They grew up and their dad used to beat them with a two by four or whatever their story is where they can divorce that story where they can sit down and say, hey, these are exercises that I can start practicing with myself, my kids, my wife,

my dog, my husband, whatever it is that they can start doing that really kind of start moving that needle. It sounds so simple, but it's like the next time you have a conversation with somebody, watch them, not just watch your eyes to be present to every single bit that they move, how they move, how they look, how they're responding to you, where their eyes go. And that's all that matters. That's the greatest exercise right there. And you could do that with your partner. You can do that with your family, or you

could just sit at a cafe and watch two people have a conversation and and to be an audience member and to just assume the hell out of what the situation is. And what I mean by that- When you're not a part of it, build a story. See what's going on, try to make it up. Absolutely, absolutely. And recognize that whatever it is that either of those people are doing, you do it too.

Also, I think, in terms of that, understanding that if some book told you that when a person crosses their arms, it means this, no, each person has different triggers and different momentums and different things. I sit with my arms crossed like this when I'm listening to someone. You've already done it. We were talking about you lean back and you folded your arms.

That's just a place and you're listening. But if you go listen to a book, they're going to tell you, oh, your arms are crossed. You're deflected. Oh, that's not true for everyone. They say, how do you understand when someone's lying? Oh, they look this way. No, they don't. It's a breaking pattern. If you haven't identified their pattern, you lose. That's it. It's a breaking pattern. And to recognize that breaking pattern, to recognize when somebody has a kinesthetic response and to recognize the evidence of that. And the evidence is like someone had their arms crossed

and then you say something and they uncross their arms. It's like, oh, they no longer feel that way now. Or they didn't have a gesture. They weren't doing, I'm swinging my hand in the air. They were swinging their hand in the air and then they suddenly went, but you know, my mother wasn't there. And then they take their hand down and you go,

mother made them stop that. Mother is where I'm going to go into this conversation. Yes and I look there's just massive science this isn't stuff that we just made up this is science one of my favorite exercises they do with this is they they take a girl um they don't want boys to but they take her with just a cup in her hand and she has a pad of paper and she goes up and says hey can I ask you some questions and they say yeah of course she's well can you hold this for me she'll hand them the cup. And so write down questions. She does this in two different narratives, once with a warm cup

and once with a cold cup. And then when they're done, the person walks away, another person will go and say, Listen, we just hired Suzy. What was your general feeling of her? How did you feel about her? When it's a warm cup, they're like, you know, we felt like she was warm and friendly and connected to us. If it's a cold cup, they're like, we felt cold and distant. Human beings are predictable. There are very specific things you can do.

And if you don't believe that human beings are predictable, go to this, your, any of your colleges or the library or the internet and look for behavioral science. We were very, I think the lesson there was always carry around a warm cup and give it to somebody when you're talking to them. I think that that's a rule that we can all live with is never have a conversation with a stranger unless you give them a warm cup of something. But it's it's funny you bring that up when I when I'm sitting down and I'm negotiating deals. If I did it, the deal gets stuck and they're all going to know

this now. But if the deal gets stuck, I'm like, Hey, you know what, guys? I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm really hungry. Do you guys know what fo is? And they're like, what? I was like, yeah, I'm like, I'm just going to stop. I need to go eat. And I will go take them for this big bowl of foe. And the deal will close at the table 90% of the time. My team knows what I'm doing. They're like, I need to close the deal now. Because it got stuck. And I need something to break pattern. And I absolutely it's a simple thing. And I think one of the things one of the ways to do that, certainly in improvisation, is to make sure that it doesn't seem like you're doing that. And, um, and, and for me, usually there's something where if you're really

listening to somebody, you start, you start, you start, uh, accumulating inventory, what is it that we talked about? And the important thing is to go at like, to make sure that you remember every single thing that the person has been saying and what they got to them so that if you ever need to make a pivot, you pivot with the inventory that you have. But I do like pho and I will go, I will, I will, if you and I are negotiating, I am going to be a stickler at one point just so that you buy my lunch. Yeah, that's fine.

I'll buy you lunch. It'll be one of the things you're talking about inventory. Um, you know, I know what I think inventory is. I'd love for you to break down kind of what is that inventory when you're when you're reading someone when you're trying to be there and trying to meet them where they are. What is the inventory that you're cataloging in your head? The inventory would be like, what gestures do they make? How is it that they respond to me? If if if I notice that they aren't having eye contact with me and every once in a while I'll go, is that eye

contact because they're distracted or is that eye contact because they're not confident? Is that eye contact because they've got some kind of chronic disease? Like that sort of thing. I will also notice how well are they listening because very often I'm just gonna go, if I have a kinesthetic response and they don't stop, I'm going to go, that is who it is that they are. So each person gets a different way of react. Each person, I respond to each person differently because I'm seeing everybody as a clean slate.

There's something called tabula rasa, which is really important in improvisation. Tabula rasa means an empty slate. At's something called tabula rasa, which is really important in improvisation. Tabula rasa means an empty slate. At the beginning of every improv scene, you wanna have an empty slate. You don't wanna come in with a bunch of different things. Because the more things that you come in with, the more clogged you are going,

I have to say this, I gotta do that, I can't do this, I can't do this. And what's happening in all of those things, and this has to do with my book where I'm going, screw the rules, screw the improv rules. And the improv rules are saying things like, you've gotta say yes and, and you can't talk about people who aren't there and you can't ask questions.

Like all these improv rules. So these improv rules, what are they doing? And the same thing happens in business where you can't do this, you must do this, you have to do this. So while we're going through that, while we're listening, nothing that person is saying is coming through to me or very little of it's coming through to me because it's all going through filters that I've brought in because I haven't been tabula rasa all these filters that are coming in so that I'm not being my authentic self I'm I'm I'm I'm censoring

myself or I'm keeping track of oh I have this amount of time I've got to accomplish this before I leave and I would have it not them and for those of you who are I've got to accomplish this before I leave. And I would have it. Not them. And for those of you, I'm sorry, tell us again, please. Because it's it you're making it about you instead of about them. And for those of you who are watching the video, go back when you said tabarasa, I tilted my head to the side, I did the dog and immediately was like, he doesn't know what that means. I need to strength because he was there. He music, oh, head tilt.

I know what that means. He need to just try it. Because he was there, he was like, oh, head tilt. I know what that means. He just went, he gave a puppy. He's like, uh-oh, let me explain it because he doesn't know. Because he was here. Right. And you didn't say, wait a minute, Dave, I don't know what this is, Tabla Rossa. I watched you do that and I wasn't watching you. I won't get that cue. And it's a cue, man. It's a cue. It's like in theater, where you've got, in theater, in movies, in theater, in anything, you've got a cue. I say this, you say that. But the important thing, another important thing is to go, let your partner finish what they're talking about. And that's a major thing too. Are you interrupting someone in the middle of their thought? Because you assume that what they're, you assume you know what they're going to say.

And the example that I give is, there's a difference in two sentences. I love eating pears and I love eating pears of pants. You know, you're gonna wanna have somebody put the full stop at the end of that to go, how do I respond to that? Yeah, and if someone says, I eat pears of pants. I'm like, um, you okay there? You need a hug? Right. I like pairs and you stop them there and you go, I like, I like

pairs too. It's like, no, you didn't let me finish talking. I like pairs of pants. Right. And then you've got massive disconnect from that point. And it, what'll be interesting is people listening to this right now, we'll see you and I are interrupting each other all the time. And that's our dynamic. We can do that because we feel confident to say, Oh, let me finish that. Let me go back to that because you've already done it a couple of times. Let me go back to that. Let me finish that out of something else I want to say, because it's a it's the way you and I communicate. I can't

do this way of communicating with a lot of people because certain people just they don't play that way. Awesome. I also think that when you get two people who've done as many podcasts as you and I have done we understand how to have an interview, how to connect with people because if I go back to because I was my podcast that I did and I stopped it when I started writing my book um I had I don't know you know I had 250 guests on it and if I really want to embarrass myself I would go back to the very first interview I had with Tom Dreeson. Tom Dreeson, who was a comedian who opened up for this guy 17 years, opened up for this guy called Frank Sinatra. So he was my first guest. And

I'm listening to it. And I keep going, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And it's like, I'm listening going, shut up, Razowski, because every time you go, uh-huh, you're stopping the flow of what he wants to say. So one of the things just in terms of business is to go, are you going, uh-huh, or are you nodding and giving visual cues that want your partner to go on? Watch somebody who interviews, watch somebody interviewing someone, watch, I'm sorry, watch a news reporter interview someone who just got indicted for some crime. That reporter, I have a background in, I have a degree in journalism.

That reporter is not going to nod. They're not gonna say, uh-huh, because they want that person to keep talking. You want your, you want your client, you want your, your customer to keep talking, to keep the dialogue going. I was, I was sitting there, I was in, so people I work with are in the Philippines and it's a culture thing. In the Philippines, they'll say, uh-huh, yeah, uh-huh, yeah, uh-huh, about 15 times in my sentence. And I'll stop. I was like, what's going on?

They're like, what do you mean? They're like, it's a sign of respect. I was like, no, it's not. You're breaking my train of thought. Shut the thing up. You're killing me. Just shut the thing up. Can't do that.

I'm like, oh my God. You're gonna understand. Again, meeting them where they are, that culture for them, that's how they communicate. For us, we're seen as it's massively disrespectful. And I just want to walk around with your shoes because it drives me out of my mind. I have I have I have I'm an improv partner

and she that I play with and she and I can talk over each other in every single improv scene. But there's a skill set that you go, can I talk and can I talk and listen at the same time? And that's a skill set that you go, can I talk and can I talk and listen at the same time? And that's a skill set. And most people only talk to talk or they listen to talk. They listen for the cue. They listen to when they butt in versus again, this all comes back to meet them where they are. And you can't meet them where they are if you're not listening.

And I'm not talking about listen to what they say, listen how they move, how they're breathing. People don't get that. Where someone breeds is huge because when someone comes to me and cause whether entrepreneurs company, most entrepreneurs don't have bad days. They have days where they don't want to have any more days. They're just, it's, it's one of, it's the second highest, um, not wanting to live. Cause I can't say that other word because people get freaked out. I'm not wanting to live in this environment. So they'll sit there and I'll watch their breathing.

Are they breathing high up? Are they breathing in their gut? You'll sit there and if you get to it, you'll get to the point where not only can see the breath, you can see their pulse. And you can actually see it on where they're doing and what they're going. And as you've said, these are your cues, they're giving you bazillions of cues, just shut up and pay attention. Just sit there and open it up long enough, get off

your train track and get over to it. So then to go back to what you were saying about like, w w how can the average lay person, uh, use the skill sets, uh, in say business or something like that and in negotiation conversation. And I, and what, what I'm getting from our conversation is this, it's like, just be present, just watch what's going on. Just be excited that there's gonna be a pivot.

And if you have the confidence and coming in with the confidence, the confidence includes empathy and a skill set of radical listening. You're gonna succeed. And you're not just gonna succeed in a shallow way, you're going to establish relationships that have depth, that have depth, and not just depth, but width. And the width is, the depth is in your heart, the width is in community. You're going to be able to connect

with people who will connect with people. And this isn't about schmoozing, you know, because if you come in with the idea of like, I'm going to schmooze, it's like, I see you come in a mile away, man. Everybody does. If you're trying to sell me something, everyone gets it. So when we're going through this, if we have these things, I'd still love to be able to give some people some tactical stuff. Like we sat there and we gave them very specific things. Meet where they are, you know, learn how to read, learn how to do tactical empathy, learn how to do these things, which are fine. But you've done stuff which most people can't do. I've watched you improv before. I've watched shows. I've seen lessons that you've done. I've talked to people that you've taught. You have the gift of being able to do it radically quickly.

So for those of you who don't know what an improv are, first off, go see an improv show. They'll sit there and people, so I wanna walk out and they'll say, hey, I need the name of a person and the name of where they are and something that's going on. And then they're gonna build all of that. So the person is on stage,

they have no idea what they're talking about. They are the, they're everything. They're the director, they're the about. They are the they are the they're everything they're the director They're the writers. They're the makeup guy. They're everything all at once and they're doing it live while playing with someone else Who's doing it at the same time? That's a skill set most individuals have it mastered you clearly have When we're doing this and you teach your students, what are some of the things that when you're working with your students? They're like, you know what this exercise when we do doing this and you teach your students, what are some of the things that when you're working with your students They're like, you know what this exercise when we do this this and this Really kinds of move the needle for them when they're shooting your courses

Hmm Well, there's that one that I just described one of the exercises that I that I do The very first exercise that I do is and maybe I talked about it I've got a lot on my mind because we also I live in Los Angeles where there are fires right now. So what I'll do is, and I'm going to stand up here and for those people in radio land, I'm five foot six, but you know, but I'm five foot six, but let's just say I'm six foot four and I'm very muscular. That has nothing to do with anything.

So what I'm going to do is this. The first thing that I did, and certainly in the class that I did yesterday, and I think we talked about it a little bit, was I'll just stand here like this. Let me just say, in the improv classes that I teach, I don't take suggestions. I don't go, give me a place, give me a thing, give me an activity. I don't do that. What I do is I just have somebody stop and just stand. And then I'll have the person that you watching this.

I say to them, what do you need to tell me based upon how I'm standing? And I like that you just literally, you just did two different poses. When you first did it, you did super person purchase. Your arms are out of the sides, handle the hips for those of you who are not watching this now you've got, um, arms are crossed, but there's a holding of an elbow. And this is important. Absolutely. There's a difference of your arms cross and folded inside each other versus arm cupping the other hand. No, like I'm gonna say this for those people who are watching it. This I've got, I've got my hand in my, I got my hand in my arm and I've got five fingers that are visible.

This guy is not this guy. Right. Now what I just said to those of you who aren't watching is that I tucked my thumb into my armpit. This guy, if we start a scene like this, Charles, you're going to have one thing to be watching what I'm doing. This is a different one. Right.

Okay. Now, so there's this guy, which is different than the guy that I just was a moment ago. Do you know what I did that it was differently? Did you see what I did that was different? Yeah, you're, if you're reversed to me, your hand went from open on the side to the back end. Right. So that guy's not that guy.

So the reason I'm saying this is this. We are not we are we are expressing nonverbal cues in real time. And so my first exercise with everybody is just to kind of have everybody move around in a circle. This is when I'm doing a class in person. Have everybody move around in a circle. Say there's 15 people in a class. Say everybody move around in a circle. I will tap two people, which means they stay and everybody else goes away. Now immediately we have two people that are in relationship to each other. And I'll ask one of them, what do you what are you compelled to say compelled is really important. It's not what do you think you need to say? What's

the funny thing to say? What do you compelled to say and say one person is looking away and the other person is looking at that person. So what do you compelled to say? What is this guy compelled to say to the person looking away? And it's like, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Oh my God. Like, what do we have there? We've got a fantastic scene.

And what do we want to do? We want all scenes to start in the middle. We don't want to say, thank you so much for coming to prom. This is really a great prom date. I'm so glad that the two of us are like, and that's a problem that you get in when you get a suggestion as opposed to just,

what are you compelled to say based upon what's in front of you right now. So when we're looking at what it is that we're doing in a business meeting, nobody is airdropped in that meeting. People walk through the door in a particular. Kids and all that. I'm not even talking about that. I'm not talking about the the Mishigas that they have going on in their life.

I'm talking about you're sitting in this meeting and it's like Bob's going to be here in a minute and then the door opens and you watch Bob come in and you go, oh, which is walking. Did Bob say hello to me? Is Bob looking at me? Did Bob mention my name? Does it seem that Bob was given information about me based upon how friendly he is with me in this moment? Every single thing matters and then when Bob comes in is Bob aiming his body away from me or is Bob aiming his body?

Toward me because if he's aiming his body away from me, that's a different. Is that a problem? That's not a problem This is something I have to be in relationship to so all improvisation. I want you to be eager to respond I don't want you to be eager to talk. Yes. And that's a very different thing. It's very different. And it's funny because in poker, which I'm a horrible poker player, but you'll sit there and you can read who's got a good hand based on when they get their hand, did they look at everybody else's chips? It's tell. Yeah, it's an absolute tell. And everyone has these tells all day long. Everyone has a it. When did I put it in a very cute way? That is annoying is we are the Santas of now town

And what that means is we are the Santas of now town means we are giving gifts every single moment that we're connected That may sense I don't know Santa Santa and Natata, I understand it, but you're right. We're giving away things 24 hours a day, all the time with everything we're doing. Going like this, touching your nose. Right, right. Are you playing with your hair? If you have your hands covered in front of your crotch,

and if I say, hey, let's open up your hands, and then you put it behind you and cover your tuchus, you're still guarding something at that point. There's something that's not resonating, and you're creating. So I think what you're still guarding something at that point. There's something that's not resonating and you're creating. I think what you're also bringing in is this, that we've been talking about watching somebody else, but let's also talk about watching ourselves. Because a major part of this is how are you sitting? How are you standing? What's your gesture? What are you doing with your hands?

What are you looking at? What's your eye content? What's your what do you what what gesture do you have on your face? What are your eyebrows doing? What's your tell? Because you're telling them. And the tell isn't necessarily a bad thing. A tell can also be a good thing. To your point Santa of Nata. And we go into these things and people don't understand that you can control an entire audience with how you're saying for example, if you're talking to the left side of a stage, and all and you're focused to the left side of the stage,

if you wanna open up the right side, everybody else on the other side, just turn your hip to the side, open your leg up, you can keep talking to the left, but now your body's pointing to the right, the right has an illusion that they're now part of this conversation again. 100%.

It's so interesting that you talk about that because I have to remember, and it's been several years, many years, since I was on the main stage of Second City. But the main stage of Second City is 320 seats and you do show eight shows a week and it's packed, sold out every single show. And what does that mean? You've got, you're out there on the stage by yourself, but you've got to make it so that everybody feels like they're up there with you or you're in the audience with them.

And how do you do that? And it's like you fake having eye contact with people. You fake it going, you know what I mean? It's like, I can't see you. You go and think, he knows what I mean. He knows exactly what I mean. Right, exactly. And if he doesn't know what I mean, he's like, you know what I mean.

He's like, I don't know what you mean. It's like, this knows what I mean. He knows exactly what I mean. Right, exactly. And if he doesn't know what I mean, he's like, you know what I mean. He's like, I don't know what you mean. It's like, this guy does not know. So tell me why don't you? And then you pivot to that. And you can also do identity holds, right?

You know, really, really smart people. You're a really smart guy. Really smart people buy this. You've now done an identity hold. So now you press the break that goes, well, I'm not, I am smart, but I don't really want this. But if I don't buy it, I'm now stupid. You've now locked him into it because she, again, beans are predictable.

So being able to learn these things about human behavior, about influence, about persuasion, about meeting them or is, cause you've got three types. There's influence, there's persuasion, there's manipulation. The first two come down to awareness. Do they know you're doing it or not? The last one is about intent. So if you're manipulating someone, it normally is for negative intent. And if you don't think this is real for your audience, and

Dave's nodding here, if you're a wine person, go to a wine store. If you walk into I don't know what I want to buy and you leave buying 10 bottles of French wine stop and say, wait, what music are they playing? I guarantee you they're probably playing French music and they influence you to do that. There's a reason why the stores at a shopping center are laid out the way they're laid out. All of this makes sense.

There's a reason the ice cream and the cookies is at the end because your willpower just blew out buying the other stuff and now it's ice cream cookie time. So people don't understand how predictable humans are. And to your point of being Santa of Nowntown, they're constantly giving things away. And if you don't, then it changes the ballgame. It's like when two people are talking to each other, where are their feet pointed? If they're pointing

directly at each other, don't interrupt that conversation. Do not get in the middle of that conversation. You lose. But you've got to watch it. And you can't just watch somebody's face or eyes. You've got to watch their entire being. Because again, the entire being and what you just talked about there was if two people are looking at each other in this way, one of the viewpoints is spatial relationship. Spatial relationship is the distance between you and something else. It doesn't have to be a person, but that space in between those people is alive.

It's not kinetic energy. I mean, it's, you know, it's what's the opposite of kinetic energy. It's not potential energy. It's kinetic energy. It's working. It's happening. There's something going on there. One of the things that's really important is you talk about where culture, where people are from. We talked about before with the Philippines, when you talk about distance between people, you get yourself in a situation...

Spatial relationship. So where people, if someone is Latin or someone is India from Indian Indians from, you know, anything, their distance that they're going to want to be next to each other, very different than someone who is from Denmark or Sweden or Finland, or even the United States. We, as Americans, we want a very large birth. We just give me my space. Don't come close to me. If I'm in a situation down here, cause I live in South Florida, if when I'm dealing with a Latin culture, Venezuela, Colombia, it's much closer.

If I have someone because I work with a group of individuals from India, I can count the nose hairs that's in the guy's nose because we're so damn close. You have to understand that as well. Understanding the communicate is huge. Yeah. And again, we keep showing back that you can't go, you've got to go in there with tabla rasa, with an empty slate. Because if you're bringing, and you've got to recognize you're bringing your culture into what it is that you're doing. And one of the things, when, so we go back to the idea of failure. And I was the artistic director of the second city of Los Angeles for 11, 10 years or 11 years. And there was a change in management and the change in management that's out of time. And in the back of my mind, I was thinking, maybe it's time for me to go.

And when the universe wants you to clean out your locker, the locker is gonna be cleaned out whether you're ready to do it or not. And I read the writing on the wall and I decided it was time to leave because they were kicking me out for not anything that I particularly did that I thought I did or they were able to tell me

what I did, but they were kicking me out. So at that moment, it was a feeling of, what do I do now? This is my livelihood. I don't have a parachute. What do I do? And one of the things that I did was call the people that I know in foreign countries that I worked with and I said, how about I come to you? How about I bring my Michigan gas to Turin

or to Rome or to England, or to any of these Belfast. And one of the things, and I got gigs because of my prominence. And one of the things that I'm really, really important is to read up on these things before I come in, because part of what I'm doing is, major part of what I'm doing is communication. And if I come in going, everybody speaks the way and everybody walks the way and everybody

has a special relationship the way that Americans do, you know, one of my first games was in Berlin. And a guy went, and so I'm hired in Berlin, I don't really know this person. And I go, how did it go? And he goes, you talk too fast and you're too loud and you get a bit of a witty face. And I'm like, oh, that's my fault. Yeah.

That's my fault. 100%. And you've got to debrief it. Before I went to the Middle East or the sandbox, I was debriefed before this interaction that when a man holds another man's hand, which in the United States we're like, I'm sorry, what? Why are you touching my hand? When a man holds another man's hand, which in the United States, we're like, I'm sorry, what? Why are you touching my hand? When a man holds another man's hand and interlaces the fingers, it is a

massive sign of trust. But here in the United States, if you and I were hanging out and I reached over and I held your hand that way, you'd be like, excuse me, what's happening? But because I had debriefed and I was told about this by a handler, say, hey, this is what's going on. This is what you're walking into. When this individual held my hand, interlace my hands and then walk me around where we were. Everyone's like, Okay, don't mess with him. He's under this one's protection. There's trust there. If I wasn't debriefed on that in advance, I would have blown it because I

would rip my hand away, which would kill rapport. It's on me. It's not on me to understand because you know, if I there's things that I can do versus things I can't do somewhere or somewhere else. And we mess up these things all the time. People will normally give you the benefit of the doubt once. And if you open to say, like, everyone hates the French, which I don't understand why everyone hates the French, because I've never had problems with the French. But when I was in France, I would say they're like, oh, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And they're like, okay, you're trying. Let's give this a shot. What are you trying to say? Since I made an effort and I'm sitting there with a book, they're like, all right,

you stupid American, what are you doing? And I'm like, dude, I just need to do that. I think a major part here is also the ability to go to say this. I'm sorry. Yes. I got it wrong. Yeah, absolutely. There's nothing wrong with that. My bad.

Right. No matter what it is you're doing. And again, it goes back to fear where it's like, oh, I can't say that because then they're going to see I'm not powerful or strong. And it's like I like I screw up. It's like it's part of improvisation. It's part of being alive is, is. Yeah.

Yeah. You said it was a part of being alive because at the end of the day, there's two extremes of this, a it's the acceptance that's part of life. And I also think B at the end of the day, the person you roll over in the morning with really doesn't care that you screwed up, they don't care. Whatever. Fine. Cause that person is one that matter and going through that.

So we're talking about reading, reading body language. We're talking about showing up vulnerable. We're talking about, you know, other things that we've gone through. When people mess up the worst in your environment, where there's completely just, God, I've tried this. I'm not doing well with this. How do you help them pivot back out? Like this, I'm so collapsed by fear.

I'm so, you know, how do you get them to do this in a way that's joyful for them? Cause there's tactics and then there's joyful, Hey, I want to go experience. I want to go play again. Cause this was entertaining. How do you get them to come back after failing so far? My first question is, what are you getting out of this?

What joy are you getting out of this? What is it that you enjoy doing? And then let's do more of that. And if you can't, you know, because I'm, I have to say, Why are you getting out of this? What is it that you enjoy doing? And then let's do more of that. And if you can't, you know, because I'm, for me, this is a fault that I have and most people accept it. They see it. Some people would see it as a fault.

It's like, if I'm going to see, if I'm teaching somebody and I'm looking and going, they are having an awful, awful time, I will take the time with them. People want you to take the time with them and to go, what is it that you're getting out of this? And let's talk about that. And I also will say this to them. Everything that you've gone through, I've gone through. And the only reason I'm telling you that is you're not alone. You're not isolated. I'm watching you and I'm here for you. And I will never, ever let you go. And if it gets intense, I will say, and if somebody goes, well, I really suck.

It's like, I want you to stop talking to my friend that way. What if I told you that you suck? And he goes, I'd be really mad. Then why are you telling you that? And what it what it now please note, what did I do? I leaned in. My tone got lower, my volume got lower. And right. I was teaching a class, I was co-teaching a class with this wonderful teacher, Alexander

Billings. It was intense. It was really, really intense. It was a bunch of college students and they were really like, they had a lot of energy and they had a lot of emotion. One guy was having a nervous breakdown. What Alex did was she stopped everybody, turned the lights down, said to this guy, what's my name?

And he goes, yeah, where's my shirt? It's burgundy. What does a clock say? It's two o'clock. What do you have on your feet? Shoes. What kind of shoes? They're converse.

Great. Bring everybody back to the now. Take a moment and bring it back to the now. Take the moment and bring it back to the now. Let them decide. Let them decide if this is right for them. And if it's not, you know what? You want to go, go. It's okay. I also think, you know, collectively, if there was anything that we wanted to talk about with all of this, if we had to recap it up in one thing, showing up with purpose and showing up present to this moment, not with the idea that I'm bringing you where I want

you to go. I'm going to show a present where you are here. Yes, I got my purpose. Of course, my goal is to monetize or my goal is to do whatever it is. The only way I'm going to get there. And this is something I think people fail not only just in business, but in life. It's all right. Making it about me. If I'm trying to show up in your life as the leading actor, I have failed for the old people out there. Be OB one Kenobi for the young people out there. Be Hermione Granger. I don't know. Don't try and be Harry Potter.

I'm trying to be Luke Skywalker. That's not your job. You want to be the best supporting actor in the scene. And the only way you can do that to what Dave's been saying this entire time is being there, reading them, being aware of things, being aware of yourself and meeting them where they are. There's so much of this that's, it's just not taught. And I wish it was taught. You're the only person I know who teaches the kind of the entire ecosystem. And yes, it's like, oh, it's just improv. It's not fucking improv. It's collectively everything, how we interact in our lives. If someone wants to get a hold of you

and someone wants to take these classes and they wanna be part of this idea and this concept and start learning these skills, which are not taught in school, that are not taught in this way to be dynamic and to be able to read body language and do all these things. If someone's like, listen, I don't wanna be on improv,

but I do wanna learn how to do this. I wanna master these communication skills so I can be successful in my life on every aspect. How do people hunt you down? How do people get a hold of you? What's the best way? I go to my website and and everybody's website, go to my website on my website. There's a lot of material that you can have. There's a lot of connection that you have. And there's also a contact. Just send me an email and I will send you an email. Most of my work is done online. I've got classes Monday. I got classes Saturday. I got classes for five, six days a week and that's the

way to connect to me. But certainly through my website, just do contact there and talk to me. I also have a book, my book, you know, here's the thing about the book. You read the book, you don't read the book. One of the things about the book, when you first read the book is a lot of the skill sets that we have in that book are about connecting to yourself,

listening to yourself, being a human being. And when you're talking to people, being a human being, and when you're talking to people, being a human being, being human. And there's a lot of Buddhist stuff there without being too Buddhist-y. It's about dealing with yourself with humor and compassion. But certainly the book has really proven to be something pretty phenomenal. If anybody ever just wants to chat, I'm always willing to talk about what it is that I'm doing beforehand. But I'm a communicator.

And the way that I communicate is the first, the door has to be open. I don't go fishing. The door has to be open, and anybody can walk in and talk to me about it. But that's the bottom line. If someone was trying to track down where your door is, what is your website and what is the name of the book?

I'd have to do that. It's DavidRosowski.com. That's DavidRosowski, S-K-Y at the end, dot com. And my book is called A Subversive's Guide to Improvisation. It's available on Amazon or if you're interested in a signed copy, go to my website and look for signed copies of the book. Those are the two ways of doing it. And that's it for now.

It's in several bookstores as well, but the easiest way to get it is online. I think what I would encourage everybody who's listening to this say, Oh, well, I, I don't know improv. This isn't about improv. This is about communicating in a way that most people haven't mastered. And it'll give you such a competitive advantage on so many different levels. And these are proven things. These are things that I use. This is a reason because we didn't debrief on any of this.

Like we're going to go into body language. We didn't do that at all. It's just something that it has been a massive part of my success. Clearly it's a massive part of your success and the people you've trained who have gone on to be just a little successful, just a little bit. So being able to do that, Dave, I can't thank you enough for coming on.

I really appreciate it. What a joy. And thank you for spreading the word, not just what I'm doing, but what everybody else is doing. Because having listened to a few of your podcasts, the takeaway is this, you're kind, you're connected, and you just want people to be happy. And that brings success and it's very exercise.

So that's great. Thank you for joining us in this episode. We hope you're walking away with a fresh perspective on improvisation, not just as a performance skill but as a mindset for business, leadership and life. A huge thank you to David for sharing his wisdom, his unfiltered honesty and his deep understanding of human connection. His approach to improvisation isn't just about being quick on your feet. It's about being present, adaptable and fully engaged in every moment.

To all the leaders, entrepreneurs and creatives listening, your ability to connect, pivot, and truly listen will set you apart. The world doesn't reward rigid scripts. It rewards those who can meet the moment with authenticity and confidence. Ready to put David's insights into action? We've created an exclusive guide summarizing his principles of improvisation and how they apply to business, communication, and leadership. Download it now at podcast.imcharlesschwartz.com.

And remember, as David said, the magic isn't in the plan. It's in your ability to embrace what's happening right now. Now go out there, take risks, and create something unforgettable. Your next breakthrough starts today.