Inquiry with Kelly Chase - [The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Ryan Sprague: Stories from Somewhere in the Skies

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

Ryan Sprague is the creator and host of the Somewhere in the Skies podcast and the author of the new book Stories from Somewhere in the Skies. He is a regular on Ancient Aliens (History Channel) and a lead investigator and co-host of Mysteries Decoded (CW Network). Sprague’s research finds him interviewing witnesses, scientists, military personnel, and intelligence officials directly on UFOs, writing for The Debrief. Speaking on UFOs, he has been featured on ABC News and 7News Australia. He has consulted for Amblin Entertainment and been featured in Newsweek, The NY Post, and VICE.NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up NowGET THE EPISODE BRIEFMORE FROM RYAN SPRAGUEBooks by Ryan Sprague: Stories from Somewhere In The Skies Somewhere In The Skies: A Human Approach To The UFO Phenomenon WebsiteFollow Ryan on TwitterFollow Somewhere In The Skies on TwitterBECOME A PATRONFOR ALL INQUIRIES ABOUT THE OHIO UFO HERITAGE CONFERENCEPlease contact Jon Horvath at [e-mail] THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The other. Spector Vision Radio. A strange podcast network for strange times. Welcome back to the UFO Rabbit Hole podcast. I'm your host, Kelly Chase. I have a really fun episode for you today. But before we get started, I have just a couple of quick announcements. First of all, because I've gotten a ton of emails and messages about it, I wanted to let you guys know that part two of the waking up inside the cave series is coming.

It will be released on Thursday, May 25th. I apologize for the wait on that, and thank you all so much for your patience. This series has been a real challenge in terms of researching and writing, and it's really important to me that I nail it. But I can't wait to share that with you soon. Secondly, I wanted to let you all know that I've recently parted ways with the Ohio UFO Heritage Conference. There's no hard feelings there, and I wish them all the best. If you have any questions about the conference which is being rescheduled for September, you can direct those questions to the UFO Festival at gmail.com,

and I'll put that info in the episode description. Today, I have something a little different to share with you all. I'll be spending the end of this week down at the Archives of the Impossible Conference at Rice University, hosted by the inimitable Dr. Jeffrey Kriple, and hopefully convincing Jeff to come on the podcast. And next week, I'll be taking some much needed time off around my birthday. But I didn't want to leave you guys hanging for two weeks. So this seemed like the perfect opportunity to bring in a guest that I've been dying to have on the show, my friend Ryan Sprague of the phenomenal Somewhere in the Skies podcast.

Now, I'm sure that most of you who are listening are already familiar with Ryan and somewhere in the skies. He's been a mainstay in the community for years. And the empathy, thoughtfulness, and professionalism that he brings to his work speaks for it. self. If you haven't checked out his podcast yet, I definitely recommend it. Ryan also just had a new book come out called Stories from Somewhere in the Skies with a foreword by Dr. Diana Walsh Voselka. It's a collection of witness accounts of UFOs and I'm honored to have had my own encounters included in the book. I've talked to you guys briefly in episode one about my first UFO sighting when I was 13, but I actually had another one when I was 21 that was far more interesting.

That whole story can be found in Ryan's phenomenal new book alongside so many others. You'll be able to find links to Ryan's book, podcast, and more in the episode description. Because I'm talking to a friend and fellow podcaster, this conversation is much more personal than other conversations that I've shared with you. I really hope you enjoy it. Here is my conversation with Ryan Sprag. Your new book, Stories from Summer in the Skies just came out, and it's really special, and I was also so honored to be included. Could you just talk a little bit about how this book came to be? Yeah, absolutely.

You know, I've been running the Somewhere in the Sky's podcast since, I think it was mid-2017 when I started. I had written a book in 2016 that was pretty well received in the UFO community, but it didn't really move past that. And I wanted to kind of, I wanted to do something to continue the conversation I had in that book. And that was a book about people and their UFO. experiences. I traveled around the country and interviewed people in all walks of life about having seen things in the sky they couldn't explain. And that was kind of my uphology, I guess, if I want to put it that way. You know, there were, there's always those people out there who

are boots on the ground investigators and are trying to, you know, really do that molder and scully thing out there and figure out what this stuff is where I was always drawn to the people who had the experiences. I grew up as a playwright. I'm a trained playwright, actually. I lived in New York City for 12 years, writing and producing plays and movies. And I was always attracted to characters, obviously, as a playwright. What are people's motivations? What obstacles do they face? How do they overcome those? And what changes them by the end of the play? And I started to see that in the euphology work I was doing as well. A UFO sighting can be a pinnacle moment in someone's life. life altering even. So I said, hey, there we go. Use my playwriting skills, put it into my

ephology, and contribute something new to the conversation. So basically, the book came out and I decided I'm going to continue it in podcast form. But not only that, I'm not just going to interview researchers or people like that, I want to actually hear from the people I interviewed in the book. And that's when I started a series called Witness Accounts. And in the history of the someone in the sky's podcast. I think we're up to about 28 or 29 volumes of witness accounts, which is just incredible. I mean, I do five, six, seven stories in each volume. So that's hundreds of people who've come forward to tell their UFO stories on the podcast. And I decided, you know what? Let's take it a step further. Let's take those greatest hits, as I call it,

from the witness account series down, put them in book form. And that's where stories from someone in the skies ultimately came from, of which you were a contributor to. It was one of the top 50 stories I've ever had submitted to the show. So I have to thank you as well. Oh, thank you. I mean, that was such a pleasure to do. And I got such cool outreach from people after doing that episode, actually. That was how I met a bunch of different people in the field who started reaching out. And it was a really positive experience in a lot of ways. I think there's so much power when you start to share your stories. The connections that were able to form and we do that are really meaningful. So it was a wonderful thing to be a part of. And I'm so happy to see it come to life in this way.

Thank you. Thank you. Yes. And I have honestly, Kelly, I mean, it's a book by you. It's a book by the people who contribute these stories. I was kind of just, you know, the vessel, the middleman, as it were. So I almost take issue with the book saying, by Ryan Sprigg, because it really is other people. I do include my own personal UFO sighting as well. But yeah, this truly is a book for the people who have had these experiences such as yourself. And like you said, finding commonalities and finding understanding with one another about what we could possibly be dealing with in our skies. Absolutely. And speaking of your own UFO encounter, the book does start with your own encounter when you were 12. Would you mind sharing that briefly and also how it impacted you moving

for, right? Sure, yeah. So I had a sighting when I was 12 years old, like you mentioned. In 1995 was the year. So we're talking like Jinko jeans and Green Day and spiky hair, Ryan. And I was listening to Green Day on a disc man, actually, a portable CD player one day when I was on a fishing trip with my family, we would take these like summer getaway trips in central New York. And I would just listen to music and fish all day. I absolutely loved it. And it had turned night and I reeled my line in and I saw something in the water. And I was, you know, a little baffled by that. It looked like lights in the water. So I like bent over, looked down and I realized that they weren't in the water. They were above the water. It was a reflection. So, you know, I flip over on my back on the dock that I was fishing off of. And that

was when everything changed for me. What I saw, it was a equilateral triangle formation of lights. One kind of white, yellowish light on each point in a red light in the middle, kind of like that prototypical black triangle UFO that a lot of people describe. However, I didn't see like a structured craft or machinery. It was just a perfect triangular formation. And I couldn't see anything behind it. Like there were endless stars out that night. It was, they were, they were. were completely blocked out. So it was probably a structured craft of some sort. And it was silent. I'd ripped my headphones off at that point. And all I could hear was water hitting the dock. So whatever that thing was above me made no sound. It was huge. It was black. And I was really

scared. I started trying to yell to my dad. So the dock was off of a motel that we were staying at. And the door was open. I could literally see my dad inside the motel room. And he was watching a New York Yankees game. And I could not get him away from that. No matter how many times I was like, Dad, Dad, there's something out here. Come out here. Nothing could get him away from this baseball game.

But finally, I yelled enough where he thought I fell in the water. So he bolts up. He comes out. And he actually saw it with me, Kelly. So I wasn't the only one to see it, which is very rare. And I feel very fortunate that he was there with me. and we watched this black triangle formation coast over this river that I was fishing off of and disappear on the other side of the river.

And I just remember looking at my dad and, you know, just this 12-year-old kid looking at their father looking for something. Tell me. Tell me what was that. You're my dad. Come on, man. And he just kind of shook his head. I could tell he had no explanation for it.

Shrugged his shoulders, walked back inside and watched the Yankees came. And I was kind of just left there wondering for years and years about what it was. And it terrified me. I definitely didn't feel that awe-inspiring thing that people feel or amazement. I was petrified. I had nightmares about it. And I kind of became obsessed with it. Started taking out books at the library about UFOs and trying to find other people

who had seen these things and talked to them. And it was lonely for a really long time. I would tell some of my friends and they would just make fun of me. So yeah, I just didn't really talk about it for a really, really, really long time. And then, boom, I just was sick of keeping this in. And I started talking about it. And I was off to the races after that. That's amazing.

Did you ever talk to your dad about it again after that? How did he remember that event? So it wasn't until 2017 when the entire UFO conversation changed. You know, the New York Times article comes out. UFOs go mainstream. Everyone's talking about it. Everything I'd been doing up until that point was kind of now vindicated in so many words. And I just remember going to my hometown, Syracuse, New York, and going to a bar with my dad.

And maybe after three, four, ten beaters, I just let it all out. And we went there. We had the conversation. And I was like, Dad, what the hell, man? like what was that thing we saw in 95 and he was like I don't know I'm like do you have any thoughts or theories with all the stuff that's come forward and all the work I've done like he followed my work he supported the hell out of me in the UFO field which was awesome um but he was no closer to an answer he just straight up told me I have absolutely no idea I had no idea what to tell you at the time I just wanted to forget about it and I was like okay cool cool so we're on the same thing page. It's still unexplained. And yeah, that was a cool moment to have with him 20-something years later where we were no closer to answers about what we'd seen. But my father was now open to the UFO possibility more than ever. And we talked for hours that night about Rendell Schum and Roswell

and all these famous UFO cases. And he asked me about all the stuff that I was doing in the field. And it was a really cool moment. And I never thought. thought UFOs would be the thing to bring me and my dad closer. I always thought it'd be baseball or something like that, but eventually it turned into UFOs. So it was a cool moment. That's awesome. I love that. I've had some of those experiences with my own family, too. They've been very supportive, and it spurred some really interesting conversations and conversations that I think brought us closer. And I think it's wonderful that you were able to have that full circle moment. So what stands out for me in your story and the stories in your book, and also just through all the conversations,

conversations that I've had with other experiencers doing this work is how often people end up being profoundly changed by these encounters. I know you alluded to that a little bit earlier. For some reason, just seeing something that you can't explain in the sky seems to have this lasting effect on some people. So what do you make of that sort of transformational process? You know, I think in my first book back in 2016, I was looking for commonalities. I was looking for patterns in these people. Were they changed the same way? What were those changes? And ultimately, what conclusions did they come to with what they had seen? And I found nothing. And it sounds like I failed as a researcher and an author, but it frustrated me that when I got to the conclusion part

of the book, I couldn't write anything because I was no closer to explaining UFOs or anything like that. All I could do is rely on these people's testimony and how it made them feel in the moment and how it changed them afterwards. And that, like you said, Kelly, it changes everyone in so many different ways. I mean, some people rejected the experience and never really wanted to talk about it again. Or some saw it as a spiritual experience and became very religious or spiritual after the events. And I came to realize that this is not a field of study. I think I could be completely wrong on this. At least for me, it's not a field of study to find patterns, to find conclusions. It's the journey. Everyone's on their own journey after having these experiences. And it changes people in

many, many different ways. It's messy. It's scary. It's beautiful. It's awkward. It's everything, Every emotion that you can possibly feel happens to these individuals when they have these experiences. So, yeah, I would say at the end of the day, UFOs literally rebel against everything we want to do. And that's to understand them. But they don't want us to. At least I don't think they want us to. And at least not right now. Very well said.

I couldn't agree more. So in collecting so many different experiencer stories, what are the things that stand out to you? You know, you said there's not necessarily patterns that are easily recognizable, but what do you wish that the average person understood about these experiences and the people that have them that typically get lost in the traditional narrative? I think what I want people to take away from at least the collection of stories that have come to me at the podcast or in the book is that these are just everyday people. Like you, I have other podcasters that told their stories as well.

people in every walk of life, every country, every town, every sort of background are having the experiences. And not only that, when you hear the term UFO, it conjures such iconic imagery, either the saucer or the gray alien. But I'm sure in your journey and your pursuit with the show and everything that these phenomena are far stranger than any of those things. And with the stories I got, I was completely blown away with how weird some of them are. I think when I first started, I was like, okay, I want to find just the black triangle cases. I want to find just like a nuts and bolts craft that someone saw because that's what people want to hear. But the more I started to dive into some of these stories, the more I realized how strange they are, like ridiculously strange. There's a couple cases in this volume of the book that just, I don't think anyone's ever come across

UFOs like these. So yeah, I just want people to embrace the strange in a lot of this and realize that eventually is part of data. You shouldn't brush that away just because it sounds weird or it doesn't fit into the narratives we've come to cure all the time when it comes to UFOs. And to just embrace that and realize that that has to be a part of the. of the journey as well. Absolutely. I think when I first got into this, the weirdness was hard for me to handle. But something that I've heard from so many Mufon investigators, for instance, is that one

of their number one clues that a case that they are looking into is fraudulent or that the person is lying is when it makes too much sense. When they're like, the saucer, it came down, it landed in my yard, they came out, they said hi, we went on the craft, we flew around, we came back, they said bye. They said bye. Like, that is not how these stories go. There's always something about it that is uncanny or bizarre or impossible or just too strange.

Like you said, it just rebels against any kind of category that we try to put it in. I tend to agree with that. The weirder the case, the more I'm apt to believe it because I really do think these things don't happen easily or chronological. They're messy. And it really is up to the observer. and their perception and interpretation of the experience that lends itself to what I personally think of their case. Not whether I believe it or not. I try to keep that out of it, to be completely honest.

I will hear any story. I don't care how prototypical or how weird it is. I just, I love hearing stories. I'm a listener. I'm a playwright. I love sitting in the back of the room and just hearing people interact. I find it absolutely fascinating. That's why I do this. That's why I listen to people's stories instead of trying to understand them or explain them for people. I'm not a mof on field investigator. So yeah, yeah, I think the messier and the weirder, the better and the more apt I'm to pursue it for sure. Absolutely. So I think what I find really cool about your podcast is that you've been doing this for longer than basically anybody of our generation, like of our cohort. And something I've been dying to ask you is, you know, you,

we're doing this before the big revelations of 2017. What was that like? Because so many of us have come to this topic, myself included, just in the last few years, since 2017 or even more recently. That must have been wild. What was that like? It's interesting. I was, I'm, God, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I am kind of part of the old guard of uphology. Yeah. I guess I'll wear that as a badge of courage now. As much as I enjoyed being like one of the younger UFO researchers. It's very exciting to know that there's much younger people now getting involved and getting interested. And I've met so many incredible people like yourself. You know, Andy over at that UFO podcast has become a dear friend of mine. And same thing.

He just sort of came around when New York Times happened. And so many people got involved in this topic around that time. And I think it's amazing. You know, as much as Twitter communities might get a lot of bad rap sometimes. We really have grown something incredible over there on Twitter and in those sort of spaces and having awesome conversations. But to get back to your question, sorry, it was lonely. I was super young. Nobody really took me that seriously until I came out with my first book. And, you know, fine. Maybe I didn't have a lot to contribute then until I really dug my heels in and started researching and writing about the topic. But it was a lonely place and it was basically just talking about the same cases over and

over Roswell, Rendell Shum, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Don't get me wrong. I love historical cases. I cover them all the time. But once 2017 hit and we got all these new fresh voices out there, that also comes with new fresh thoughts and ideas. And it was so cool and invigorating to hear new people's thoughts on UFOs instead of the same few people in this echo chamber on every podcast, every radio show, every documentary about UFOs. It was invigorating. It was so stale and stagnant. And I was thinking about getting out of it, to be completely honest. But I really do think that that kind of injection of new blood, as it were, really did a lot. no matter what you think about 2017 and that story and where it's gone from there,

it changed everything. It changed this conversation. And I don't know what I'd be doing now. Maybe I'd be playing baseball for the New York Yankees. That'd be cool, but I still like UFOs. That's so awesome. And I just want to thank you, honestly, for leading from the front with that. Because I think in so many ways, because you are kind of the old guard that the people

who have been here for a long time have set the tone. And I don't know if people listening realize this, but like most of the things, Most of the big UFO podcast hosts, like we're all friends. We all talk to each other. Yeah. There's not a ton of competition. I think that we all kind of regard each other as colleagues. And so thank you for setting the tone with that.

And thank you for, I mean, you were one of the first people who really supported my podcast early on and sharing it out. You didn't need to do that. And I just always thought that was awesome. So thank you for doing that for the community because I think it's made a big difference. No, thank you. And honestly, if you put the work in, that immediately. gains my respect. I could see it. I could see the passion and the curiosity you had for the topic. And I've seen that with so many other podcasters too. It's not a competition. There's room for

everyone in all of them. I tell people that you can look at UFO so many different ways. So let's attack it from all angles. And you mentioned podcasting. The podcasting world is one of the most supportive I've ever seen. Way more than the UFO community ever was to me. Don't get me wrong. I've had amazing mentors and a lot of support to kind of build up what I have done and what I've become in this field. But I love talking to you. I love talking to all the other people who have started podcasts or YouTube channels because it doesn't matter how long I've been in all this. I'm no closer to knowing what the hell UFOs are or aren't. So why would I take that away from someone who may have just even gotten into the field? They could be the one to finally unlock

that mystery. So why you push that away? Why put people down for just trying? And yeah, I will support anyone who wants to start the UFO podcast or write a book about UFOs. As long as they're respectful and treat the topic with the sincerity and empathy that I think it truly deserves, you're good with me. That's awesome. And you know, like you said, you don't necessarily know what UFOs are. You're not any closer to it. You're somebody that wants to maintain a very open mind. about the UFO phenomenon, but are there any particular theories or ideas that are just really exciting to you right now? Yeah.

So, and I know you've covered this on your show extensively as well, is the time travel theory. I love it. The more we learn about the possibilities of something like that, the more I'm really looking at it as a possibility to maybe some of what UFOs are. Not all, obviously. I think there's a million explanations. for UFOs. But I find it absolutely fascinating, sort of the precognitive nature to a lot of these phenomena. It does make me truly wonder, have they been here before and seen how these things

play out? Is that why the TikTok UFO is able to get to a cap point that nobody else knew about? The possibilities are endless. We've even heard from several individuals and experience. That's what this is. They're coming back to tell us and warn us of whatever impending doom or destruction or possible even salvation. Again, I find that absolutely fascinating. So that's a theory I'm kind of leaning towards right now, but ask me tomorrow and I'll probably have a completely different response for you. I agree. I change my mind every day about what my favorite one is. So the UFO community, as we've been talking about, is relatively small. And the number of experts who are willing to go on the record is even smaller. So naturally, you end up seeing a lot of the same faces on the podcasting

conference circuits. But there's also a bunch of sort of lesser known but truly brilliant researchers whose work ends up flying under the radar for one reason or another. Who do you think we should be paying more attention to in the community and why? In terms of people who we haven't really seen or heard from a lot in whether it's on TV or anything like that would have to be my buddies over here in the UK. We've got Dan Zetterstrom, we've got Vinny Adams, Andy McGillan, Graham Rendell. A lot of these guys are doing incredible work over here trying to, and I should mention I now live in the UK, trying to push this topic over here because it isn't taken as seriously. If it's covered by the BBC or news outlets here, it's still kind of with a smirk and

ridicule. So they're trying to change that. They're trying to show their country that this is a topic worth pursuing. So all those guys over at UAP Media UK, I'll definitely give them a shout out. I also want to shout out my co-host at Somewhere in the Sky. It's Chrissy Newton. She's a wonderful voice in this field that I don't think gets the credit she deserves. She does a lot of behind the scenes work over at the debrief, the science tech and defense website. And she also has a podcast of her own called Rebelliously Curious, where she has conversations that honestly no one else is doing in the UFO field. And I think it's awesome. She talks to all different types of scientists and futurists and technologists and bringing them into the conversation.

So it's super refreshing to see stuff like that. So those are a few of the people that I've said. to keep an eye out for. But again, people are popping up left and right all the time. The gentleman who put on the conference that you've hosted in New York City, they do a wonderful job as well. Jay and I'm for his name. James. James. Hey, they. James. Yeah. Yandali. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm horrible with names. So James, please forgive me if you're listening to this. It's all. It's on me, brother. My brain is mush. That conference, I am so jealous that I haven't gotten over there yet because those are the types of events we need. Where you're not seeing the same people over and over and over again rehashing the same UFO cases.

It's fresh. It's ambitious. And I think it's awesome that those types of events are happening. So shout out to them as well. And yeah, there's too many. There's too many to even really discuss here. But yeah, those are just a few. I co-sign on literally all of those, and I'll make sure we have links to all of those people in the episode description so that people can check them out because there's some really great work being done by all those folks. And also, every single one of them to the very last one are just some of the nicest, kindest people you could ever meet in your life also.

Absolutely. So with all the hundreds of episodes that you've done, which ones stand out to you as being the most surprising or the most impactful? Oh, wow. There's obviously like they're all your babies, as you know, so I want to say them all, but there are a few that really left lasting impressions on me. And the first one I can really think of was Stanton Friedman, one of the just preeminent the godfather, I guess, of euphology. Over 50 years, he spent researching UFOs and just an incredible man, the kindest guy in the world. I interviewed him for, my 50th episode of the podcast. And this was actually months right before he passed away. So I took it as a huge honor to finally talk to him and get him on the show. And it wasn't even

Kelly, like the UFO conversation we had. He went through his entire life in like career with me. It was like two and a half hours long. I think I maybe talked once or twice during that entire time and asked like maybe two questions. But that's Stent and Prinkman. And I just, remember someone who again grew up listening to that man's voice on every documentary and radio show and reading his books sitting there almost like in a surreal limbo like i can't believe san freeman's literally talking to me right now it was crazy so that one left a lasting impression on me especially because we unfortunately lost him not too long after that and i just learned so much about him as an individual, which I think is really important in this field, too. We all get these

like 2D versions of each other, like, oh, Ryan's a podcast host. Kelly's a podcast host. Okay, we have lives outside of this too. And it was really cool to kind of get to know him a little better outside of the UFO world. The other one that really sticks out to me would probably have to be Diana Walsh, Fasoka. I know you've had her on your show too. But again, bringing something into the topic that no one had ever really done before that UFOs and religion and how it all mixes and melts together. And I had the incredible opportunity to have her and Leslie Kane, the New York Times journalist and author on the same show. And that was a moment I'll never forget. I don't know how it happened, how it came to be. I think Leslie made it happen

actually because she lived in New York when I was living there. And I actually went to her apartment and recorded the episode live there at her And it was another surreal moment. I'm like, oh my God, I'm in Leslie Cain's apartment talking to her and Diana Walsh. And they bounced off of each other seamlessly. And it was so fascinating to hear two women who approached the UFO topic similarly but also differently in many different ways and just have this incredible conversation. And I kind of left that day being like, wow, this is what we need more of. We need more voices out there, more women,

to be completely honest, getting involved with this topic so that we're not hearing the same middle-aged white men talking about this again and again and again and again. So yeah, those are two that are really coming to mind right now of moments where I almost felt outside of my own body. but you know, you take the good with the bad. I've had some horrible memories of episodes as well. We won't go there, but those are definitely the good ones. Amazing, amazing. So I haven't had another podcaster on before.

You're the very first, and I'm very happy about. But I actually wanted to take the opportunity to have a conversation that I haven't really had on this podcast before about what this whole process is like. I'm sure that like me, you get emails and messages from listeners all the time who are asking about how they can get more involved. So what advice would you give to people who feel called to do this work but just aren't really sure where to start? Yeah. You know, it's not easy. I'll definitely put that right in front because that is most important. Anyone can push record and start talking about any topic. There's a podcast literally for everything you can possibly think of. And there are countless UFO podcasts as well.

But a lot of them, and I've seen it happen, they maybe do one or two, maybe five episodes at the most, and then you never hear from them again because it wasn't what they expected. Either the workload was too much, or they weren't getting the downloads they wanted, or yeah, it just wasn't what they expected. So I do get that question a lot.

Like, how do I start my own podcast? And I just say, do it. just push record, start, and go from there. There's going to be bumps along the road, but I think one of the most important things I tell people is stick with it. When I first started my show, I had no idea if anyone would ever listen to me or want to listen to me. Who am I to be telling people what to think about UFOs?

So I gradually grew an audience organically. Like, I wasn't expecting whatever, 100,000 downloads on my first episode or anything like that. But slowly, gradually, you start to see more people possibly listening or getting interested. So that's what kind of got me going. Like week by week, maybe a little bit more, a little bit more. That's cool. And then there's the whole business side of podcasting, too. Like, you can't just push record and put it up.

You have to find somewhere to host the audio. And that costs money. You have to buy a microphone and that costs money. So it is an investment. Like I remember I was living in New York at the time, struggling artist and spending every last penny I had to try to do this podcast and eating ramen, you know, for a week straight just to save money to get a new microphone or headphones. But anyone can do it.

It's a very guerrilla style thing to do. So all I can say, honestly, is just. Just do it. There's no playbook on how to do it successfully or properly. Reach out to people. Reach out to Kelly. Reach out to me. Ask questions. I'm happy to help people. Always. Always. And I do get those emails a lot. And my first thing I always say is just do it. I guess I'm stealing that from Nike. We're going to get a trademark in Frigman here. But yeah, just do it. Just give it a try. You never know who's going to listen or who's going to find what you're doing. And I'm past 300 episodes now. and I'm thankful for every single person

who ever took a chance and listened and continues to listen. Yeah, it's a job. As you know, it's a full-time job doing it. It is easy to push record and talk and whatnot, but at the end of the day, so much more goes into it. And you will learn that as the process continues and what works for you and what doesn't.

But at the end of the day, it really comes down to the content that you're producing and the passion you have for the topic you're talking about. again, whether it's UFOs or something else. So as long as your heart is truly in to this UFO question, I think you'll be successful at it. And that's why certain shows kind of rise to the top. And some don't.

I honestly feel the true passion and curiosity you have the topic with the topic will shine through and will resonate with people. And those are the shows that kind of, you know, I hate using the term rise to the top because it's really not about that. but it's the shows that you will notice get the most listens and downloads or whatever. So that's my really long-winded diatribe on how to start a podcast. No, I think it's great. I mean, I remember when I first started, I think I released my first two episodes and I think in the first week I got like 35 downloads.

But I remember saying to my now husband, he was my fiance at the time, you know what? if only 50 people a week listen to this podcast, I'm going to keep doing it because I cared about it that much. And I think that you have to go into it with that level of that you would do this of basically no one would listen because it's going to take a while to build up an audience and you have to have that passion for it. And also, when I always tell people is to just be yourself. I have people who reach out to me who would like to. I mean, and this is like the biggest compliment I could ever receive. It touches me deeply anytime I get an email like this, but people will even email me an offer to work for me for free on the podcast. And the thing I always say to them is,

if you're feeling the call to this work, that call is for you. If you feel that, that means that you have something to contribute that's different than what everybody else has to contribute. Like you were saying, bringing all these new voices in and different perspectives and people from different backgrounds and different professional experiences and all of that, gives you a different perspective. And I think that the more authentic you can be to to who you are and what you have to offer, I think that that goes a long way. You shouldn't try to be somebody else. That person is already taken. That's such a good point. And, you know, I don't talk about this often, sort of the origin of why I started the podcast. Like, yes, I started it to continue the

conversations I had in my book. But I have to thank an individual who inspired me to start my show, and that's Shannon LaGro. She's more well known in the Bigfoot community. However, she has a podcast that's called Into the Fray, and I would come on from time to time and talk about UFOs. If there was UFOs in the news, I kind of come on and do my little segment, my little tap dance, UFO tap dance, and get off stage. And the more I contributed to the show, I think the more she realized, like, you have something unique here and something to truly say. and maybe you should think about starting your own show. And I kind of laughed at her at the time.

And I'm like, who the hell is going to listen to me? And she was really the one to inspire me to start my show and helped me tremendously. Again, with kind of the more technical stuff. Where do I host my files? How do I edit? All that stuff. How do I find ads for my show and music and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I really have her to think.

So if you really, if someone truly inspires you in the podcasting world, reach out to them. And, you know, I have those people too who like email me and they're like, I would love to do research for your podcast. And that is so nice of them to do that and say, I don't want anything for it. I just like, I kind of want to get involved. And I've done it. Look, I have people who write and research some of my episodes for me and it's amazing. But at the same time, I'm like, if this is something you want to do. do, you've earned it now. Like, you, you helped me, you researched, you wrote an episode. Why don't you go try it

yourself and see where that goes? Spread your wings as it were. So yeah, if Shannon hadn't really inspired me, I don't know if I ever would have truly started the podcast. She's also the publisher of my books. So I have to thank her for that as well. So yeah, if you have that person who truly inspires you, reach out to them and say, how can I try to do this too? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. So you actually keep up a pretty relentless pace with your podcast. I know you recently had an ear injury that had you down for the count and it caused you to miss posting an episode, which is something that you literally never do, which I give you major props for because I know that that is not easy. So how do you do that? What does a typical day look like for you? Oh boy. My fiance probably won't enjoy me telling this because it takes up every free moment of my time. Forget going to the movies or going out to dinner or stuff like that. Like podcasting and UFOs, I live, breathe and sleep it.

But I also absolutely love it. And I do have a supportive partner who helps me and inspires me and whatnot as well. That helps tremendously. But at the same time, I look at it as a job. I just moved to a new country. I had a very stable job when I lived in New York City. And that was gone the moment I moved literally across the world. And this is what I do. I'm now a full-time podcaster in trying to make that work for me.

And it's not easy. I'm not going to lie. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's horrible. Just like this kind of gig world we live in now. but I look at it as wake up, have my coffee, work the 9 to 5. I'm immediately doing my emails and my research or trying to get a week or two ahead on the podcast and figure out like it, you know, it's like piecing a puzzle together. I have an interview on this day, but my episode releases this day, so that can't be next week's episode.

And it is. It's like just trying to piece this unsolvable puzzle together sometimes. But I did. I had an injury recently that stopped everything. And that's real life. I never missed a single episode since I started the show, like you mentioned. But it happened because I was injured. I injured my ears, which is literally what I used to podcast.

So I couldn't do that. And sometimes life just slapsing in the face and you have to deal with it. That's bound to happen too. So yeah, I guess that's my long-winded way of saying it's not like easy, but it's a job. And I look at it that way. But I also love my job. And if you can love your job,

there's literally nothing better in life, I feel. And as long as I put the time and effort in and people appreciate it, I can continue to work that job that I love to do. Will it last forever? I don't know. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? And I kind of look at it that way too.

Like this could all end tomorrow. Why not just have fun with it? well, I can while also working super hard for too many hours to try to create the best product that I can to put out there for people and show people that the UFO topic is worth the time and effort and quality that people like you and I put into these things. And clearly, people do appreciate that. So, yeah, it's a job. I guess that's my really long-winded way of saying this is a job. Treat it like that and enjoy it along the way and you'll be happy. Absolutely.

I mean, it is really hard work. I think people have this misconception. You know, you and I, we talk for about an hour. And then what? I like just talk some intro music and put it up and we're good. So like I can't even tell you how much more work it's than that. And shout out because it sounds like you have a very supportive partner. I have a very supportive partner. So shout out to partners who allow us to pursue our passions. I got married in February. And I was working up till the day before not like that whole week. long days. And then immediately as soon as it was over, there was no honeymoon. It was just back to work. And I'm just so grateful to my husband. He recognizes where I am right now with the podcast. And we're going to take that honeymoon at some point. But right now he's just understands that this is where my focus is. And man, how lucky are me to have partners that support us in that way? Extremely lucky. And I don't take that for granted. I know there's people out there, you know, who are into this stuff. And, may not have someone who supports them. But at the same time, if this is what you love to do and this is who you are and you find this topic interesting, no one can take that away from you. Do what you want with it. Write a book, start a podcast, or just be a part of the community and give your thoughts

and theories and opinions online. It's great. So, yeah, while you and I are very lucky to have people like that, we both know that not everyone is as lucky. But at the end of the day, we're all hopefully support. importing one another as well. Yeah. Again, I'm a cheerleader for anyone out there who wants to get involved in this super weird and frustrating topic that you and I decided to go down the proverbial rabbit hole with. There we go. I knew I could fit it in there. I knew I could fit it in

there somewhere. I paid him for that now. So it's inevitable when you put your work out into the world that people start feeling like they have the license to say just literally anything they want, both about you and to you. And the more of an impact you're making, the more of those trolls seem to target you. So how do you deal with the haters and how do you protect your mental health while doing this work?

When I first started my work, books, podcasting, whatever, it was hard. I'm not going to lie. I'm a very sensitive guy. I can say that up front. I wear my heart on a sleeve. I went to school for theater. So clearly, I'm a very emotional person. And it was hard.

There were times where I would obsess over one comment on a YouTube video or, you know, someone saying, wow, could your voice be any higher, dude? Like, come on. Like, when are you going to go through puberty there? And now I can laugh about stuff like that because you do. As time goes on, there will always be people out there who either are insecure in their own abilities to research these topics and convey that to the public or it's just pure jealousy or there's a voice. in their life that they need to fill with trying to make other people feel bad. I mean, that's psychology 101. We don't have to dissect that for anyone.

And it does grow the more exposure you did, obviously. And it's different for everyone. So the way I deal with it is at this point, I just ignore it. And look, like, I posted a video, a UFO video on Twitter the other day to give people's thoughts. A classic blunder. I saw that. Oh, my God. I'll never make that mistake again, Kelly.

People just came out of the woodwork to a, attack me personally to say I was an idiot. This video sucks, like, blah, blah, blah. And for me, it comes down to something Stanton Friedman always said, and that's when people can't attack the data, they attack the person. And a lot of the time, I think that's what this truly boils down to. If someone can't really wrap their head around what you're saying or simply disagree with you, they will go for the jugular, whether it's your looks, whether it's your voice, whether it's whatever you put out there into the world, someone will always find a way to try to knock you down. And I've gotten to the point, and I know this is easy to say, is to ignore the haters,

but we both know it's not that easy. Like, these things can always psychologically and emotionally affect me. So at this point, instead of responding to things like that, I simply move on and move up. I got that from Kevin Day, the chief radar operator who was on the TikTok. He said it in some interview and it really stuck with me. I'm like, I'm too busy to care about what this troll on Twitter thinks about me as an individual. There's no time for that. This is a rapidly accelerating world. Everything's moving so quick. And this topic of UFOs is becoming more a part of our lives more than ever. There's no time anymore for trivial stuff like I have worked to do. I don't know about you, but I have work to do. So I'm just going to continue to keep doing my work.

For every one person who might say something bad about you as a person or as a podcaster or a UFO researcher, there's a hundred people on the other side who do support you. And all we can do is amplify that instead of, you know, giving these people, these negative people, any sort of attention, in my opinion. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry and the best heavyweight in the world, Frances Ngano versus Felipe Lins.

Watch Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carrano, live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific time. Yeah, it is hard because I have gotten to the point where, 90% of the time, I have no emotional reaction. I'm just like, well, that person was clearly having a bad day and I move on with my life. But you know what it's like you're getting these notifications and emails and stuff on YouTube, like constantly. There's no way to just completely check out of it. Because we also have to monitor what's going on because it's not like I just disregard every negative comment. If people have constructive things to say, I really take that to heart. And I need to see those negative comments to know, right? But in. sometimes those things pop up. You're just, you're having a bad day. You're already feeling kind of crummy about yourself the way we all do sometimes. And it just hits you wrong. And it's like, I wonder if this person really knew that they were going to mess up my whole day by letting me know that my voice is the most annoying sound they've ever heard in their life. It's just, yeah.

And it's like, again, it's easy for me to say ignore it. But like, that's not how we're built. That's just not the world we live in, especially with the internet and social media. So, Yeah, all I can say is just keep doing your work, keep your head down, move forward, and embrace the positivity. Like, we don't get that enough in the world. And that's why I love the podcast in the world, because it is very rare to have someone really be negative. At least in my experience, it happens. You get a bad review or maybe a comment on Twitter every now and again. But again, for every one of those, there's people who truly appreciate the work that you and I do.

and many others out there. And as long as we use that as fuel instead of the negativity, I think we'll all be better off and we'll all be better off mentally too. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I also think, you know, the thing you have to realize, too, is you get that one negative comment about an episode or something, but you realize that literally tens of thousands of other people have listened to it. And the people who loved it don't reach out as much.

It's just not an instinct. And which is totally fine. People are busy. They've got stuff to do. I think it's people who are bored who end up leaving these nasty messages anyways. But maybe we can give anybody who's listening of homework assignment. Don't do this for Me or Ryan's podcast. We're not like soliciting reviews here.

But if there is any kind of a creator or a podcaster or a musician or somebody who you know is working in a creative space whose work you really enjoy and you've never reached out to them to let them know that, reach out to one of those people and just let them know that you appreciate their work. because I think that getting those heartfelt messages from somebody who took the time out of their day, it really does make all the difference. It can change everything. And that's such a good point. I find myself not doing that either, like reaching out to the podcast I listen to or writing a review. So, you know, preach what's the saying? Practice what you preach.

Yeah. There we go. Thank you. Oh, God. I'd have mastered that. No, you got it. Yeah, because I think that you listen to something. you're like, oh my gosh, this is so awesome.

This person clearly knows that it's awesome. I don't need to tell them. But sometimes we do need to hear it. We creatives are a sensitive group. Yes, we are. Yeah. So when you look at the podcast, what are you most proud of? Hmm. I guess that I'm most proud, I'll put it this way.

I'm most proud that from the very beginning, I have basically started something from scratch, not knowing where it would go and just continuing to do it. It's so easy to just give up on things in life. We all do it all the time. I've done it in other aspects of my life. But with the podcast, I've had really highs and lows. There have been times I wanted to stop doing it. There been times where it took up too much time in my life or I just wasn't having a good month and I just wanted to quit, but I never did. And it was truly like the support that I got that kept me going. So I would say I'm most proud that it's still happening. Like as simple as that, there's not one episode that I'm most proud of or anything like that. It's just the fact that people still

care what I have to say about this topic and continue to take that journey with me. Because it's not an easy journey. And we change our minds all the time. And there's been times where I just wanted to quit everything. Like, not talk about UFOs anymore, but something always kept me going. And I think it's that curiosity to truly know that the world is much bigger than you and I and what we think we know about it. And it's clear.

It's clear in the people who reach out to you and I. It's clear by the numbers that we see that are growing on all pilots. and all YouTube channels that cover these topics. And that's inspiring. And that's what keeps me going is the interest is growing and growing. And that's going to lead to more thoughts, theories. And yeah, yeah, it's an exciting time to be interested in UFOs. And I can't wait to see where it goes next.

That's amazing. And where do you see yourself in your work going in the next few years? Are there particular things that you still want to accomplish or new projects that you'd like to take on. What do you have coming up? There's a couple projects, unfortunately, I can't say too much about, welcome to the field of uphology. I can't talk about

this. It's going to happen. I swear. Trust me, bro. Do you trust me, bro? Totally trick. Disclosures right around the corner, man. We laugh because we have to. This feels

utterly ridiculous sometimes. I have a few projects that are somewhere in the sky's adjacent, that I'm working on right now both in book form and television form, all different mediums. So always working on stuff like that. I am working actually on a brand new book. The work never stops. The first question after this one came out, what, a week ago was, what's your next book

coming out? Come on. Just come out. Give you a minute. Yeah. The world we live in. But I have been working on another book for almost two and a half years now. And I'm getting closer and closer to being done.

I feel like it's going to be my opus. It's epic. It's huge. It's sweeping. It's deeply, deeply personal for me, unlike my first two books, which are personal, obviously. But this one really came from my heart. And I'm terrified to put it out into the world, but also excited. So yeah, that's what I'm working on right now.

Continued research on my new book. And yeah, I hope the podcast isn't going anywhere. As far as I know, someone knows different. Let me know. but I continue to do the show every week and learn every week. And yeah, diving a bit more into the woo. You know, I had Alex Dietrich on recently, the Navy pilot. I've had all the government people that we've all heard of from the past few years.

And it got kind of boring for me and like too technical and too government oriented. And I will be forever grateful for those interviews I had. But I want to go back to the weird stuff. So I'm starting to do a lot. more episodes of the show that really embrace the weirder aspects like I mentioned earlier and look at some of the really weird close encounter cases and UFO waves of the past and what it could possibly tell us about some of the stuff we're dealing with now. So yeah, again, doing a million things all at once and driving myself and my partner crazy.

So yeah. Well, that's incredible. I know we're all looking forward to seeing that stuff come out. Ryan, I just have so much respect for you and your work. It's always such a delight to talk to you. Let everybody know where they can find you. Thank you, Kelly. No, it was my pleasure.

You're one of the shining voices in this field right now. So again, anytime you and I can talk, I absolutely savor those moments. Everything I do is at somewhere in the skies.com, the new book of which you are featured in. So I hope people will check out your incredible UFO story in there. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. It's on Amazon and paperback and e-book. An audiobook will be coming out, hopefully in the very near future.

My publishers are working on that right now. So, yeah, you can find it on Amazon or wherever you get your books. And yeah, you can catch me, ancient aliens, the TV show. Right now on the History Channel, I still laugh when I say that because I can't believe they're 19th seasons in and still talking about ancient aliens, but they're doing it. And for some reason, they put my face on there. So yeah, you can watch the current season of that too. I love seeing you with some of our other friends on there.

I'm always like, I know him. I get so excited. It's fun. I know I still get messages from my mom and stuff. Being like, oh, my God, you're on TV right now. And it's, it never, I can't watch myself. I'm one of those people who I'm like, no, absolutely not. Cool, awesome.

Maybe one more person learned about the podcast. That's great. But no, I will not watch myself on each of it. It's not it. That's awesome. Ryan, it's been wonderful. Thanks so much for coming on. My honor. Thank you. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance.

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