Instant Genius - Algae, with Ruth Kassinger

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

Science writer Ruth Kassinger, author of Bloom: From Food to Fuel, The Epic Story of How Algae Can Save Our World, tells us everything we need to know about this bizarre organism, from the animal that grows algae in its fur to why we should be including it in our diet. Once you’ve mastered the basics with Instant Genius, dive deeper with Instant Genius Extra, where you’ll find longer, richer discussions about the most exciting ideas in the world of science and technology. Only available on Apple Podcasts. Produced by the team behind BBC Science Focus Magazine. Visit our website: sciencefocus.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost! Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your oceanfront room. Just steps from the water.

The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh, no.

That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Get the alerts that could make all the difference.

Save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com slash special offer. Terms apply. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

This podcast is sponsored by name, audio and focal. Streaming has made music more accessible than ever, but true listening is about more than ease. It's about quality. British audio experts name audio, alongside French acoustic specialist focal, combine handcrafted tradition with cutting-edge innovation and high-end materials, delivering digital precision with analogue warmth. So you can experience exceptional sound at home. Music just as the artist intended.

Visit name. audio.com to learn more. From BBC Science Focus magazine, this is Instant Genius, a bite-sized masterclass in podcast form. I'm Amy Barrett, editorial assistant at BBC Science Focus magazine. This week, I'm talking to science writer Ruth Cassinger.

She's the author of Bloom, from food to fuel, the epic story of how algae can save our world. In this episode, Ruth tells me everything I need to know about this bizarre organism, from the animal that grows algae in its fur, So why we should be including it in our diet? It may be an easy question.

I've got for your first question. It may be a really difficult one. But can you tell me, what is algae? As we say in the United States, algae, I'll have to use that term. Algae is not a category, a taxonomic category, like animals or mammalia or even plantae. It's a catch-all term. And what we can say is that algae contain a wide variety of beings that range from the very microscopic to fully visual types like seaweed. They are distinguished from plants because plants have roots.

They have other structures like bark that prevent de-heas. hydration, algae always live in damp or wet areas. They don't have roots. And they take in nutrients through their cells, through their cell walls, rather than from the ground. And so there is a distinction between algae and plants. And I should say the other factor that does relate plants and algae and why it's easy to not be sure where the line is. is, is that most algae are photosynthesizers like plants. So that means they use the sun's energy to take carbon dioxide out of the air and convert it with the addition of hydrogen into sugars. So does that mean they can't live in places with no light? Yes, it does. Unless you have some that are called

mixotrophs, which means sometimes they photosynthesize, sort of when the sun is shining and it's easy to do. And sometimes when there is no light, they get their nutrition like animals by eating other creatures or other items like, well, it really is mostly by eating other creatures. That's amazing. I had no idea. Yeah, there are, you know, one of the things about algae is that Because they're some of the longest existing creatures, living creatures on Earth, they have evolved in many, many ways. There are thousands of species of algae, and scientists believe that we don't even know the full extent by far of the species that have evolved and that are on Earth.

And when you say, sort of ancient, how long ago are we talking, did they first of all? About three, let's say three and a half billion years ago, algae first evolved in the world's oceans. This was at a time when there really was very little else in the world other than the ocean. There was no air in the atmosphere. The continents at that time were mostly granite outcroppings, and the sky would have looked often tangerine. to you and the ocean itself was full of iron and would have looked dark green. Because there was no oxygen in the air, there was no ozone. And that's when these heinous creatures and you can swallow, if you swallow one drop of ocean water, today you are likely to swallow thousands of algae.

They are so tiny. So that's when they first developed this remarkable skill. of turning sunlight into tissue. And have they changed very much from that time? Because I sort of feel like when I picture algae, I sometimes think of something kind of amorphous that's kind of gloopy and slimy, and it probably is a lot like what I picture from that long ago. Well, yes, you know, in some ways it hasn't evolved at all.

These creatures are very efficient at what they do. you do, your idea that they are kind of gloopy is correct because back three and a half billion years ago, because there was no oxygen in the atmosphere, there was also no ozone, which meant ultraviolet rays would have fried their DNA and mutated them or killed them. So they developed very early on, some of those sugars that I was talking about that they can make from sunlight a little bit of minerals, some of those sugars were converted and have been since the earliest days into a mucilage, a polysaccharide, that covers their cells and acts like a sunscreen. So it's another characteristic that they share to this day is that if you get a bunch of algae, they're definitely

going to feel slimy and squishy to you. I guess I think of algae is that sort of bluey green stuff that you see on, you know, pond or, and, you know, I've read stories about how, you know, you shouldn't let your dog go and swim in canals because you see this algae on the top layer. And what actually, on that point, what is that to do with? Is that really that harmful? What happens if you ingest some of that? Most algae, if you ingest, you wouldn't notice a bit. I mean, the top, layer of the ocean, meaning about 600 feet deep, is just so filled with algae. It's like a blanket. And there are many good reasons for eating foods that have an algae origin, which is

like seaweed, because they're full of nutrients. And maybe we can get to that later. But what you're talking about when you see an overgrowth of algae in a pond, that's an algae. That's an algae. bloom and those are often unhealthy. Those, indeed, you don't want to let your dog go in and swallow that water and you don't want to do it yourself. There are all kinds of different algae types and some of them are harmful, especially in excess. So that bloom, is it just, you know, expansive growth or is there something unique about an algae bloom as compared to other algae growth? No, that's it. That is a, a bloom is an overgrowth. It's, it's too much. And usually it happens when there are excessive nutrients, particularly nitrogen, that wash into the water. And then you get

too many algae. And sometimes that species, that particular species is a kind that particular species is a kind that produces toxins. So it's not like every algae bloom is toxic. Some are, but many are just unsightly. And they also cause other problems, which is that when they bloom like that, they use up all the nutrients in the water, especially if fertilizers have run into the water and there's way too much nitrogen and phosphate. Then they use it up and they die. The real problem comes when the bacteria that are decomposers come to feast on all those dead algae. And those are oxygen breathers. They use oxygen.

And so they're multiplying away like mad and using up all the oxygen in the water. And that's when you have a dead zone, which means that there is no more oxygen in the water. The algae doesn't cause it directly because algae, actually produce oxygen, but the decomposers are the real villains by using up all the oxygen, which means that any fish or shellfish can't survive. They suffocate. And those dead zones, how common are they? Well, they are quite common and becoming increasingly common. Off the southern coast of the United States in the Gulf of Mexico, there's a dead zone that is this,

size of one of our states, Massachusetts. And that means that it stretches for hundreds of miles along the coast where nutrients, fertilizers from the farms in the Midwest come down the Mississippi and are flushed into the Gulf. So it has an impact on fishing. It has an impact on, on it's clearly on the ecosystem. But the Gulf is not the only place that this is happening. Major dead zones that form in this way where there is an estuary. There are about 400 in the world already and more develop every year, both because the climate is warming, which makes the water warmer, which the algae like, and because more and more nutrients are washing into our oceans. And is there anything that can be done to resuscitate these dead zones?

It's probably not that difficult to resuscitate them if you stop the fertilizer runoff. But that's a huge if. So by that you mean some fertilizer that ends up in the waterways and we'll continue just if we don't change our practices now? Right. Farmers tend to use too much fertilizer. And there's also a problem of sewage and lawn. fertilizers. Surprisingly, at least to me, is the fact that lawn fertilizers are a major portion of excess fertilizers ending up in the water. But algae aren't always a signal of something bad to come, right? They can actually be part of a healthy ecosystem. Yes, they're very much in the proper proportion. They're very much a healthy part of the ecosystem. They're the basis

of the food chain, they are the creatures that take sunlight and turn it in to stuff, things that animals, which includes fish, can eat. So the whole, all the marine ecosystem is based on a sufficient supply of algae. It's just essential. It's kind of the grass of land. It's what the animals eat in the ocean. Is it the case that algae are only found where it's wet or can they grow on, you know, well, I mean, you see kind of algae sometimes growing on the walls of swimming pools and other strange areas. You may well be looking at a moss. It's often or a lichen. It's often very hard to tell what is algae and what is moss or lichen. Moss is a primitive plant and actually evolved from algae.

Lichen, which you'll find on trees, is a combination of algae and fungi. So they have a symbiotic relationship, and it's not a harmful relationship to the tree, but it's a very important relationship, and it was important in colonizing the globe. because, as I said, in the early days of the earth, there were just granite continents, no soil. And lichen and algae were important in creating the bio components of soil. So you'd have to get up close and personal to take a look at the green stuff growing. You know, you may find them, find algae, let's say, around the drain near a swimming pool or any drain. They don't survive if there's chlorine.

So if your pool is adequately chlorinated, you're not going to have algae. If you've forgotten to put the chlorine in, you may get some algae growth. It's not just in the water on plants that are. algae grow. There's some animals it can grow on, right? Well, there is one kind of funny instance where the algae grow on the fur of three-toed, but not two-toed, sloths. And sloths have such a low metabolism that they've evolved so that algae grow on their fur where it's damp. And they eat the algae because it's good for them. It's full of nutrients.

But not the two-toed ones. I don't, and I don't know why the two-toed sloths don't grow their own algae. You know, it's like the sloth is cultivating its own garden, right, in its fur. That's fantastic. If only I could grow chocolate on my own skin, I'd be set for life. I agree with you 100%. But, you know, they're not the only animals to eat algae. So we, I mean, you mentioned seaweed.

So we've eaten algae. But should we be eating more? Are we missing out on a potential kind of delicacy in not eating enough algae? Yes, we are. The Japanese and other people in East Asia have eaten seaweed for thousands of years. Seweed is multicellular algae, and seaweed has parts to it. They have blades and a stipe, which is like a branch, and they have a holdfast, which helps them grip onto rocks, other substrate. And because they are made up of individual algae cells or algae, they can take a lot of minerals and amino-e

acids out of the water that they're living in and concentrate it. The wrapping of sushi called Nori, which is the seaweed, is really full of good things for us to eat. It's full of amino acids, including three that we need, that we don't produce ourselves. And it's got a lot of protein. It's about 50% protein. And it has a lot of vitamin A and some vitamin B, niacin, calcium, calcium, magnesium. So it's really a good food. And it's, of course, low in calories because it doesn't have, you know, store energy in the form of sugars. It does store energy in the form of omega-3 oils and those are very important to us for brain health. So whether you eat Nouri as a wrapping on sushi or you eat seaweed snacks, which have become very popular here and I think in Europe,

those also are very, very healthy food items. But it's not just the nutrients that scientists are looking to algae for now, right? We're going to discuss the specifics in our bonus episode on Instant Genius Extra. But if you could kind of give us the main headlines of what algae could do to possibly save the planet. Well, they can be those oils that they accumulate can be transformed into oils that we can use, petroleum products that we can use to fuel our cars, to make plastics. And they also, a certain kind of seaweed is also.

also critical, could be critical in helping us solve the climate problem of methane being emitted by the herds of cattle and flocks of sheep that modern economies are so dependent on. It's a really exciting possibility. So it's like the grass of the ocean, but it could actually become the grass of the earth too. Yes, it could. How could it actually impact methane levels? Our ruminant animals produce about 15% of the greenhouse gases that are causing global warming. And these animals, when they digest in their four stomachs, grass, part of the process of digestion processed by bacteria, certain bacteria called metagens produce methane. And there is a seaweed, a beautiful pink seaweed called asparagopsis, that interrupts final step

the production of methane during the digestion process. So 15% of greenhouse gases, that's a big amount. Wow, yeah, that could be incredible. And what stage is it at the moment, Like when we'll be able to be eating beef fed with algae? It's being done on an experimental basis. It definitely works around the world. It started in Australia where off the coast this particular seaweed called asparagus taxiformis, taxiformis, grows. And further studies at the University of California and several places in Europe have

absolutely confirmed that this works. the question is going to be, can we grow the seaweed efficiently and in enough numbers to make an impact? And there are several startup companies that are working on that right now. So I would say that it's not in the next couple of years. I don't think anyone knows yet exactly how long that would take. But there's a long tradition and business of growing seaweed offshore, the wrapper of sushi, the nori, is grown off the coasts of Japan, South Korea, and China. Other seaweeds are grown on lines off the coast of Africa and Indonesia.

So it's not high technology. This is low technology. So it's a, you know, it is a question of how fast can we get to it. And we'll talk a little bit later about some of the more innovative things that scientists are doing using algae. But for you, what is, is the kind of most incredible thing that you learn while researching your book? Well, I have a deep interest in the history of Earth. And so I found the role of algae in producing planet that we know and love. That role has been so important and earth changing. algae produced all of the oxygen we breathe. They produced the ozone layer that keeps us protected from UV rays. They took carbon dioxide out of the air. And I hope that we human beings

will solve the carbon dioxide slash methane problem before we make ourselves extinct as a species. I do have confidence for what it's worth that even after we fill it, the atmosphere with carbon dioxide and heat up the atmosphere to unbearable levels, it will be algae that slowly and surely take the carbon dioxide out of the air and return us and put oxygen back into the atmosphere will return us to a viable planet for life. And when you're, you know, say we're talking to someone new about algae for the first time, what kind of three key things would you be telling people, would you wish that people would know about algae? I wish that people would recognize that eating a little seaweed can go a long way, and it's very healthy.

It also comes in all kinds of flavors, and it tastes just fine. And you don't have to eat very much of it to get all the benefits. You can eat four sheets of seaweed snack of nori and get a really good dose of healthy food. I would say algae can be a fuel, a plastic, and can help our environment, and we should be focusing our efforts on making that work. So those are two of my favorite things about algae. And I guess I just find that they're prominence all over the world, whether they're in lichen or in the oceans or on land, They grow even in snow. There's something called watermelon snow, which you can see in the mountains.

It's an algae that instead of, it has chlorophyll, which is needed for gathering energy from the sun. But it also has a pink pigment called astrazanthan. And when it warms up a little bit in the mountains, that algae blooms. and you can, hikers in the Sierra Nevada here come across beautiful patches of bright pink snow. So the artistic side of my soul also loves algae for that reason. It does produce some amazingly vivid colors, right? You can see pictures of like the red algae blooms that you see on the water sometimes. How does it have that kind of strong color to it?

Well, the pigments that algae have are for trapping sunlight, but they contain lots of pigments, red and pink and blue. And I haven't mentioned that all of the coral reefs that we know and love for their beauty are all dependent on a particular kind of algae called zozanteli, also known as zooks, for short. And these are algae that live inside the coral. Each coral is like a little anemone that grows in congregations. And inside each polyp are symbiotic algae. And the algae in these creatures captures sunlight, turns it into sugars, and feeds it to the little animal that is a polyp, and which creates, you know,

altogether creates a coral. So if you're looking at beautiful corals underwater, that's, because most often the algae are helping to color them. Thank you for listening to this episode of Instant Genius. That was Ruth Kastinger, and if you want to know more about Argi, check out her book, Bloom, From Food to Fuel, the epic story of how Algae can save our world. Or, to hear her tell me about how Algae could help us tackle climate change,

head over to Instant Genius Extra, available only on Apple Podcasts. The December issue of BBC Science Focus magazine is out now, to pick up a copy in store or visit sciencefocus.com. This podcast is sponsored by Name, Audio and Focal. The texture and emotional depth of music can be lost through digital sources or poor signal. Name Audio believes you can have digital precision with analogue warmth. Alongside French acoustic specialist focal,

Name creates high-end audio systems, combining innovation with craftsmanship, so you can listen to music, just as the artist intended. Discover more at name audio.com. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Some follow the noise.

Bloomberg follows the money, because behind every headline is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds-fueling AI or crypto's trillion-dollar swings, there's a money side to every story. And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story.

Subscribe now at Bloomberg.com.