Instant Genius - Finding the fun in science - Dara Ó Briain

Episode Date: October 10, 2018

Comedian Dara Ó Briain thinks the word nerd has been co-opted by too many people who don’t deserve it: Infinity Wars fans, for example. Studying maths and mathematical physics at university, he’s a true nerd, with a favourite science joke that backs that up. He’s released his second science book for kids, so we’re talking to him about his career, communicating science to children, and what really happened to the Brontosaurus.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So you can experience exceptional sound at home. Music just as the artist intended. Visit name audio.com to learn more. I mean, the ideal is that I, as an old man, I'm sitting in a park bench feeding ducks in my later, later years, when a woman literally in a lab coat walks past goes, oh my God, I'm a scientist because I read your book, so as a kid. This obviously is a ridiculous leap of why am I feeding ducks?

Why is this woman still wearing a lab coat while walking through the park? Like whatever. There's so many things wrong with this fancy. But the general justice is hopefully you so accede. You're listening to the Science Focus podcast from the BBC Focus magazine team. With the UK's best-selling science and technology monthly, available in print and in several digital formats throughout the world. Find out more at sciencefocus.com or look out for us in your app store.

Hello and welcome to the Science Focus podcast. I'm Alexander McNamara, online editor at BBC Focus magazine. Comedian and TV presenter Dara O'Brien became hooked on maths after studying black holes in the shape of space as a teenager. He went to university to pursue maths and mathematical physics before veering way off course into comedy and science communication, hosting shows like Mock the Week and Stargazing Live. He's drawn on skills from all of those areas to create his second science book for kids, called Secret Science, the amazing world beyond your eyes. In it, he details the tiny and invisible things that are very, very important to everyday life.

We talked to Dara about the joys and challenges of communicating science to kids and what to do if you find science boring. He shares his favourite nerdy science joke with us as well as why he's fascinated by the sleeping habits of giraffes and the details of the disappearance of the brontosaurus. Here's BBC Focus editorial assistants Helen Gleney, talking to Dara O'Brien.

in. You studied maths and physics at universities? maths and mathematical physics in UCD in Dublin. It was a specific kind of sort of fast track for those who just want who really wanted to get down to the mathematical stuff without any of the kind of dusty, practical kind of soldering yourself to the table kind of thing. So it narrowed really, really quickly

into doing just very, very mathematical content immediately. Yeah. And do you remember as a child how you first got into science, how you decided... I remember the point where I knew was really, at that point where you were about 14 when you really, when you really register. I don't remember specifically being into before that any more than just that usual curiosity we all have, hopefully. But I remember, and I've had conversation with this a bit with various scientists I know and science writers, I know that there's a point about 14 where it sort of grabs you and in a big way. of the so for me it was like a teacher who went off-piece in in science lectures and started because there's a point where we it was before we had to get any syllabus for

exams so he kind of kept a very open and very kind of they hid this this this amazing thing or that amazing thing and he was doing shape of the universe and black holes all the kind of stuff like whatever and I got for you and that grabbed me in a huge way so the and also then reading um in search of Schrodinger's cat by John Gribben and and and various of the popular science books around the time. So, yeah, it was about 14. And did you ever, after doing those studies, did you ever consider entering academia?

No, it wasn't really the, I told it the notion, I think I had myself down for a couple of different master's programs, but then ran a newspaper instead in the college and then put it down for a different master's program, then for journalism, and then ended up getting loads of work so I didn't even do that. So no, and I have kind of an ongoing respect

for those who went ahead and did the kind of more, well, nothing is less tankless than comedy is because we get thanked every 30 seconds every ticket, right? So those have actually done the more difficult thing that requires actually years of work and then producing something to

yeah, without getting a thousand people in the room cheering, applauding you. I admire that. It's a character flaw of mine that drove me to showbiz to do that like that. So no, but I never seriously, it was never seriously an option because I just got drawn away into other things.

So you've ended up with these parallel careers as a science communicator and as a comedian. How did that come about? Well there's kind of a way it works if you get any kind of note in television they will see you down and go, what other things do you like? Because it's useful

to sort of cross-pollinate the schedules to have somebody go, well actually I'm also really into this and so they know they can draw, take an audience from one place and they'll bring it across to another. It was specifically there. So we were having conversations

about doing something like that. But then somebody came up with the idea for stargazing live and they felt particularly because Brian had just started doing stuff that it would be useful for Brian to have a broadcasting co-hosts. So someone who's there whose job it is to be keeping an eye on the time and

let's move this along and all. So Brian can get passionate and get lost in this a bit but somebody would be there to go well that's great Brian but we're going to have to move along. So I got I was asked to want to do that like whatever. Now it helps the fact that I know a bit about this and so wasn't being I'm phased by the conversations and stuff like that and I was able to pitch it not of whatever Brian does but still able to pitch in with things and then and know when to go

Alison can we just explain that a little bit better the but a lot of the job is being the responsible one when Brian's getting passionate and about something to go yeah that's all very well but there's an airplane hovering above Scandinavia wanting to give us live footage or something so can we we're going to cut this off and go I have a routine in the show actually a current show about how there's that there are people who genuinely think that when I interrupt Brian because Brian I'll stop you there and that they think I do it because I'm jealous they genuinely think that I when I host Stargaze McBrian that I sit there angry thinking how to look at the attention he's getting and I and coincidentally around about the four minute mark I have I got

I can't take this anymore. I have to stop him and move the entire show somewhere else. Yeah, yeah. You get the attention bit on yourself. Yeah, just because of me. Where, in fact, it's somebody shouting in my ear going 10 seconds to Scandinavian footage or whatever, and I have to do that. But we both find that, we both find they're very funny. Yeah, yeah.

It's been such a common thing. It's a common Twitter thing of going, oh, stop interrupting Brian. I'm not interrupting Brian. I'm hosting a show that Brian is on and the show. And, like, because also people probably don't really, stargazing in particular. tremendously coordinated show. The live one hour

is like you've got this, then this, then, this, then, and there's four different locations and there's a camera crew here and then Liz is off some on the other side of the planet and Tim Peak is arriving at the space or whatever.

So it's an incredibly produced show more so than I think we make it look, which is great, but it looks should flow really, really quick. The best produce shows, they flow really quickly. But this one is boom, boom, boom, boom. And somebody has to be the one doing the tangeless task.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's me doing that. Yeah. So, and we used to have a show which, which got back to work, which is a half hour after it, which we never had time. The first was really rehearsed

and the second of the show was completely unrehearsed. And that was honestly the most fun I've ever had my professional life because it was a completely unrehearsed that I basically control the whole thing. And then we had complete scope to let the composition flow.

Well, meanwhile there's the producer going, could we get that in, could we get that in? And seeing the moment past whereas I'm just ignoring them and going, no, no, this show is just for talking now. And so there was, it was, so yeah, so they needed space with both the interest in the hang

and but also the years of live television to help anchor it. I'm the first to say that my job in all these things is to, when I'm doing the broadcasting, is to the person standing next to the expert. And I get the information out of the expert. I'm not the one to, so. So actually doing a kid's book is sort of the perfect level in terms of I love explaining it.

I love bringing the passion across for these things. But I'm unlikely to, I wouldn't, honestly wouldn't deign to write the book that explains this to adults. Because there are tons of great science stories out there who are also scientists as well. And I think that's the thing that they'll do far back. And they'll bring far more to it. Whereas I can go, that's very interesting the way you've explained it. But I think I can explain it a bit better. and I can make it funny,

and I can make them more appealing to a young audience. So that's a kind of a different skill set. But it is, you do still occasionally get people going, oh yeah, yeah, did Brian help you? Did you explain to you? And you're going, it's okay.

Brian got this out of books, you know? I got also out of books. The stuff is in books. Brian didn't invent this stuff. You know, the scientists also, we all came through school and scientists had to be taught the same stuff as well. I just stopped, I just stopped attending these lectures

after a while. But, you know, all the information is out there, There, it's not the, and that's possibly in itself a quietly thing, all this information is out there. It's not the preserve of anyone group of people, either whether it be astronomers or biologists or whatever, or scientists on the telly. It's no one's preserved. That information is all for you to go. We're just repactioning it in an exciting way to draw you in again. But none of this is a secret.

Science, I think, especially among kids and teenagers who are learning at school, sometimes has this bad reputation. of being boring or nerdy and all that. Do you feel like you kind of need to be a bit defensive of that? Is that part of, you know, the science company thing is probably a really good way of... It can be very, very good. I mean, there's a number of things that are. First, there are parts of science that are boring. And there are sorts of points that involve classification and they involve learning how to do things

and learning methods. And the part of the education of it is teaching people things that they don't know why they're doing them and they won't really realize until years or years later. So, yeah, of course, that's boring. Like whatever. Same as spelling, learning spelling is boring. so ever, saying tables is boring. The, yeah, bits of fun.

They're just going to be. Unfortunately, you know, doing laps is boring. Playing the football match is fun. You know, there's lots of parts of life, unfortunately, they're boring. And it's a very, and I,

that's, I'm no better than anyone else was in terms of doing the practice. But the, but unfortunately, that's just sadly a part of life. The, yeah, we do specifically within this book where in the first chapter we say, because this book, the first book I wrote was space. Space, space, space, space, space,

and that's very straightforward. But in this book, we have a, it's about the invisible things of everyday, everyday life and that's hormones and electrons and bacteria and forces and so we're covering loads of different stuff like whatever

and we have a thing in the first chapter where I say, listen, some of this you'll like less than others, some of this just won't interest you because that's the way it works like I mean I like you know, for me personally I don't know I was going to say is I love the physics e bits and the biologists have always kind of left me coat, it's not my thing the flip side of which is I

my wife is a doctor I told her it's a about space and just going, no, space. Like whatever. Some people like something, some people like other things. So we have a thing in the book which basically we say,

skip it. If you don't have a bit, there's another bit. Just coming along, which should be more your thing. And so go with that. And then at the end, I go, right,

so what bits is you skip? Because if you like these bits, then you could become a neuroscientist. If you like these bits, you might be into engineering. If you like these bits, you might be like a botanist or a biologist or a doctor.

If you like these bits, you could be physical. I mean, and they're all different questions, and they all want them to find out things, and they all have things they don't know. And so we kind of make it a thing in that, yeah, we, oh, totally accept that some of this can be a bit boring. And that's fine, the grand.

But it's too short. Go find the thing you love. Because you'll all end up specialising at some stage, so you might as well, when you're doing this, find the ones you love, and then go find out more about that. So, yeah, there is a thing. I mean, it flips out of which is,

I don't accept the term narrative as being an insult, I've forgotten when that was last and insult because it's been co-opted so much anyway by frankly people who don't deserve it saying I like bands so I'm a nerd or I like I like Infinity Wars so therefore I'm a nerd no

what the largest grossing movie the old you liked it you like Star Wars or how unique yeah I did four years of maths in university I am a nerd right you aren't a nerd because you liked Luke Skywalker that doesn't that doesn't qualify you as a nerd. So I find

that term is a badge of honour more than anything else. You mentioned this is your second science book for children. What motivated you to start writing for children? Was it that specific set of skills that you felt like you had? There is a touch of it like the one thing that I know I can bring to this is an enthusiasm and a passion and these things

excite me and I quite I thought this would be an interesting market in which to do that and a group of people to say that too because they're naturally scientists anyway. Kids ask questions kids are curious. They and this is an age of which is

we're not about the process yet they're about just the results and the funny things and the fact and so of the so I mean they'll get into it when you get a bit older teenage years then you have to have to unfortunately have to start learning

that you know this is how an experiment is and this is how you do this and this is an equation is not but right now it's all you know giraffe sleep for five minutes wow and that kind of stuff

so it's a nice age in which to it's and you know it's an easier age to write for in some ways because it is just look at this fun thing and that's easier with space and some of that

and then hopefully within that context you can slide in interesting concepts that will stick with them hopefully but I mean the ideal is the total ideal is

that I as an old man sitting in a park bench feeding ducks in my later later years when a woman in a white coat literally in a lab coat walks past goes oh my god

I'm a scientist because I read your book so as a kid this obviously is a ridiculous leap of why am I feeding ducks why is this woman still wearing a lab coat while walking through the park

like whatever there's so many things wrong with this fantasy but the general justice is hopefully you sow seed and that people go oh yeah that is kind of fun that is amazing that that happens like whatever

and then it sits with them and so fingers crossed first one we did know we know we did really well go nominated for an award book trust award and it was great and be really enthusing about us about it

this one is an interesting one because it's not about one thing. So this one would be, yeah, which is how this one goes. Nice. And you're a father yourself. Yeah. Are your kids interested in science?

Yeah, but in that kind of general way, I don't think as far as I know, well, one of them, it depends on them. They're quite young. So a difficult tell, but I think most more into, the eldest is probably more into the arts

than into the sciences, and constantly apologises to me for that. So the, so as yet, we don't know yet. Too young. Yeah. Okay. And how important do you think it is for kids to grow up learning about science? Is that something that you're going to try and keep in your kids' lives?

Absolutely. Well, I think it's important for anyone. I don't think it's, you know, it's one of our great achievements is discovering how the universe works, like whatever they are. And it is, you know, we've two great towers, the arts and the sciences, the stuff we've created and the stuff we've discovered. And I think it's this fundamental part. And I think we've tends you to box them off a bit. and go, well, this is one thing and you're either into this or you're into the other, like the, yeah. I think that's a very weird state of affairs where people can't be curious about both.

So, no, we, you know, we do as many visits to the VNAs we do to the Science Museum. And we're lucky to have them all kind of not far away from us. But it's, I think there is a world of exciting stuff there. And I'm not intended to shut off any doors yet. and what challenges have you found when you've been writing these books in terms of writing science stuff for kids? With the most fundamental challenge is you've got to get stuff right and that's a thing you don't really worry about too much when you've got, when you're writing comedy shows.

Also, because the second book in particular has touched on things that aren't my degree, aren't my specialisation anyway. so getting that stuff checked and not then doing this what's the call the QI thing of repeating old canards and so that often happens

that stuff pops up that that you know you're explaining how wings work and you have to kind of go wait a minute it's actually not what we've been told for years for the shape of wings at one stage I was talking about this hormone

the stomach release called grelin which is the one that basically tells them the brain that we don't need any more food and I was saying this to again to my wife as a doctor and she said what I've never heard

to that like whatever and that is only recently been discovered Grellen as like 10 years old is the thing like whatever

so there's a bit what you don't to do is you don't to reinvent the bronthosaurus that's you don't to do because I remember

the bit where I came back where I love the bronters around as a kid didn't think about the bronthores again for 15 years became a kid's TV presenter and we were doing

some item about something about dinosaurs and I said oh yeah on the bronisosaurus and the guy would, there's no bronchosaurus. What? The bronchosaurus is gone.

What do you mean? God. There's no broncosors. It never existed. Brontsaurus was an incorrect thing as the bronchosaurus. As far as I know anyway, somebody googled this, right?

The chick there before we've got. They've got the right one, but I think the bronchosaurus was the one that, if you'd see current list, our kids will never learn about the bronthosaurus because we put the wrong bone with the wrong hip bone or whatever

and we imagine a dionso that isn't there. So now, some bit of it's an apatosaurus. I don't know the exact thing, but the Brontsworth went. By the mid-N-N-Tys, by the 70s, there was a Brontosaurus. By the mid-Nsaurus, by the mid-Nsaurus,

there was no Brontosaurus. I'm not going to look that up, so I've done that definitely right. Are you Googling Brontosaurus? Yeah, because I'll make sure I'll definitely get it right these Ronsorsors. Yeah, because Diplodotox is still around, transors still around, like whatever,

you know, stichosaurus, all those. Oh, they still exist. But the Brontosaurus was just a thing that we thought was the thing, and by the time I came out, gone. It's like people, There are people who don't know what quarks are, you know. Yeah.

They're just, it moves on and you don't want to be doing your half-remembered stuff from 20 years ago. So did you end up coming up with a favourite fact from the book or a favourite part for you to write? I am, God, yeah, honestly, I really got, when I run through the book, because I can't, there's 300 pages if it doesn't know what's problem in the, yeah, but I'm very fond of the giraffe. Just the comparison of the giraffe, sleep for five minutes, whereas the line sits for 18 hours. And that is, if ever there's a dividend for being a lion, it's the fact you go sleep for 18 hours, whereas giraffe grabs sleep for five minutes at a time.

And then how long does it stay awake for? Is this five minutes quite awful? Yeah, yeah. No, I'm not sure how. They used to think it didn't sleep at all. Ah. Yeah, because they never saw it sleep. Oh, awful life.

Yeah, but I think it manages to function like that. But it's an awful life because I'm not getting eaten about a lion. So it's constantly, you know, just being aware. And they may go into it. There are different forms of sleep, obviously, whatever. the um yeah there's there's uh god there's there's loads and one's oh yeah this one that people uh the air just in circulate in a plane it's not the same air when you fly the air um airplanes take in air to the engine and then they sweep the air through

and out again so there's a hole of the back of the plane where the air leaks out the uh because people are in the presumption that you basically you fart and you and it goes around for 18 hours yeah yeah it all gets swept air comes into the engine and swoops out and goes out again But the plane is pressurized. It isn't pressurized to ground pressure because that would be a norm. You know the way, obviously, we fly high. And so you fly, let's say, it's 35,000 feet.

The pressure on the plane is 6,000 feet because it's midway between the two. And so when your ears pop and they're not popping, you're not even at the pressure, the air pressure it is outside. It just kind of picks a medium point so it's not like in a north. pressure on the plane, like whatever.

So just eases the pressure a bit. So even though you're flying at 35,000 feet, your ears think you're at 10,000 feet, and then there's the ground. So it's, yeah, so it's a partial pressure for the price of things. I presumed it went to, it kept ground pressure

the whole way to it. It doesn't, it lifted a little bit. So you're less pressure, like about a half an atmosphere of pressure in the plane, but significantly less outside the plane. Okay, so, but not enough for it to be noticeable. Yeah, exactly, yeah. I mean, no way, it's noticeable in the sense of your ears pop.

Yeah, exactly. But the ears pop, no more. than you would by diving 10 meters. Uh-huh, okay. So the weight of the weight of the air in your head of all of the air in the head is the same weight as 10 meters of water. Oh, right. Yeah.

So it's one atmosphere. If you go down 10 meters, that's one ATM, one atmosphere of pressure. So you've gone in the 10 meters of water pushing down on you is the same as all of the air pushing down in you because the air is bouncing around all the place. So, yeah, so, I mean, it's not the tonnage of the actual molecule. It's because it's all pushing off different directions. But, so in other words, do you dive? I've done it a few times.

Yeah, exactly. You know the way you have to pop your head? Yeah, same. Because you go down 10 metres. It's the same change of pressure. Okay. Yeah, far enough. Oh, that's really interesting.

Yeah. Nice. Now, I definitely can't get away with coming here and interviewing you and not asking you whether you have a favourite science joke. Oh, God. They're all terrible, though. I do. Terrible ones are good sometimes.

But the, um, the, but I have the most, my favorite is the mathematical, the most nerdy one which is the what is the and see the purpose of a great science theory what did you do what was your what's your background in neuroscience neuroscience okay that wonderful science are neuroscience but of no use you will not get this

yeah it takes the pressure off yeah it does yeah the but the genuinely the greatest science is what is the B in Benoit B Mandelbrough stand for what is it stand for it stands for Benoit B Mandelbrough

and And if you're a mathematician, that is a, really a joke. Genuinely, a brilliant joke. Do you remember seeing Chaos series as fractals? The other things you zoom in on and every time you zoom in, the same pattern appears, the same pattern appears, same pattern appears, same.

They're called Mandelbrose. Oh, okay. And his name is Benoit B Mandelberg. And if the B. Sands for Benoit B Mandelberg, that means every time you zoom in, it's Benoit B Mandilbert. Gotcha. If you're a mathematician, that's a cracker joke. That's an amazingly funny joke.

Nice. But it's properly, because all these stupid ones are about like, oh, you know, an electrode walks into a bar. No, screw that. That is, you want a proper hardcore science joke is that. That was comedian Dara O'Brien, whose new book, Secret Science, The Amazing World Beyond Your Eyes, is out now. Thanks for listening to the Science Focus podcast. The October issue of BBC Focus magazine is out now. And in it, we discover how we could leave Earth for good and build a new civilization in space.

We also speak to a panel of leading female scientists about why there are so few women in science, discover why curry is so good for you, and explore whether machine learning could help shed new light on the problem of male suicide. Find out more at sciencefocus.com. Thank you for listening to the Science Focus podcast from the BBC Focus magazine team.

We're the UK's best-selling science and technology monthly, available in print and in several digital formats throughout the world. Find out more at ScienceFocus.com or look out for us in your app store. This podcast is sponsored by Name, Audio and Focal. The texture and emotional depth of music can be lost through digital sources or poor signal. Name Audio believes you can have digital precision with analogue warmth. Alongside French acoustic specialist focal, Name creates high-end audio systems combining innovation with craftsmanship,

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