Instant Genius - The bizarre science of cat behaviour

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

Why is it that cats sleep so much? Can they be taught any tricks? And are dogs actually smarter than cats? These are just some of the questions you might have wondered about our feline friends, questions we’re putting to Dr Zazie Todd. Todd is a dog and cat behaviour expert and is the author of Purr: The Science of Making Your Cat Happy. In this episode, she unpacks the most misunderstood cat body language, the science behind making a cat like you, and the simple things you can do to upgrade a cat’s life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit name audio.com to learn more. Hello and welcome to Instant Genius, the Bitesize Masterclass in podcast form. I'm Thomas Ling, digital editor at BBC Science Focus magazine. Why is it the cats sleep so much? Can they be taught any tricks? And are dogs actually smarter than cats? These are just some of the questions

you might have wondered about our feline friends. Questions today were putting to Dr. Zazi Todd. Todd is a dog and cat's behavioral experts and is the author of Per, The Science of Making Your Cats Happy. In this episode, she unpacks the most commonly misunderstood cat body language, the science behind making a cat like you, and simple things you can do to upgrade a cat's life. Zazzy, welcome to the show. Hello, and thank you for having me. Fantastic. Okay, so you have spent quite a bit of time in your career,

but working out what makes house cats happy. So what is the most simple and effective way to improve a cat's life? It's actually a really important question. And I think for a long time, people haven't even thought about what might make cats happy. And so the most important thing to know is that cats are sentient beings. They have positive as well as negative emotions. And so there really are things that we can do that make them happy.

And there are actually lots and lots of different things that we can do. perhaps one of the most important things is to think about giving cats a safe space. And a safe space for a cat, ideally, is somewhere that is sized, just right for the cat. So they can fit in, but nothing else or no one else is going to fit in there with them. And where they're not going to be disturbed, and they're probably not visible to the world, but they perhaps can see out and peer around. So this is where a cardboard box comes in so handy, and it's one of the reasons that cats seem to like cardboard boxes so much.

But of course, if you have a cat tree with a nice space at the top, often they have a little rim around them. That can be a nice safe space for a cat as well. And it also is probably the reason that one of my cats loves to go and hide in the laundry basket in amongst all my clothes that are just waiting to be ironed. But that's because it's a nice hiding place where she's completely safe and she can burrow in there. And also, it's nice and warm and cozy as well because cats like to be wall. And so giving your cats these spaces is really helpful and it's really beneficial because a cat's natural response to something stressful is actually to run and hide. And we think of cats as little predators, but they're also prey because there are animals like coyotes, for example, that would prey upon cats.

So they actually do get quite stressed some of the time and they don't want to have to fight because that will be quite risky for them. They want to be able to run and hide. And if we can give them those safe spaces in their home, that really helps them. What happens if a cat doesn't have one of these safe spaces in their home? Well, they may become quite stressed. And I think a lot of people don't really have enough safe spaces. But luckily, even if we're not providing something often, the cat will actually be able to find somewhere.

So they might find a little tiny space underneath the sofa or under the bed or something like that. They will be looking for these spaces where they can go and hide. And we can just make life much easier for them and help them to feel much more safe and secure at home if we actually make sure that every room they've got has a nice safe space for them to hide in. So several safe spaces throughout the home? Several is better, yes. I mean, it depends on the size of your home. But if they have multiple spaces, then what will happen is that they will spend time in one

and then they'll mooch around and go to another one later on. And it's better for them to have more than one space, but they absolutely have to have somewhere safe where they can go and hide or just relax and chill out if they want to. Okay. What are the other ways that you can make a cat happy then? So it's important for them to have opportunities to play. It's important for them to have all of their resources spread out around the home.

And by resources, I mean things like their food bowl and their water bowl and their litter tray and their bed and so on. They shouldn't all be in the same space. And especially you want the food and water to be quite far away from the litter tray. And if you have more than one cat in the home, it's important to have more than one, everything and to have them in separate places so that the cats don't have to compete with each other for access to those resources. So a common mistake that people make is to put all of the litter boxes in one room, commonly a bathroom, because that's easier for the person. But from the cat's point of view, that's basically just one, because if they want to get access to it, it's quite

possible for another cat to just sit there in the doorway and block access to the room. And then they don't have anywhere else to go. So it's really important to spread things out around the room as well. And they like to have positive and consistent interactions with us that are quite predictable. So they do like to come and hang out and spend time with us, but they like choice and control over it. And obviously they want it to be a positive experience. And they also like us to take account of their sense of smell, which is in terms of both not having things that stink from the cat's perspective. So again, if you've put that litter box in the bathroom, don't use really strongly scented cleaners because the cat's nose is very sensitive

and they might be quite offended by that. And the other side of it is that we can use scents like catnip and valerian and silver vime as ways to give cats something to do and in their toys and to help encourage them to play as well. You've written a lot about training your cat, but what things can you actually train a cat to do? A lot of people don't realize that you can train cats. So the one thing that I wish most people would train their cat to do is actually to go happily into their cat carrier because so many cats are afraid of the cat carrier, the cat basket, and yet it's necessary to take them to the vet. And I think everyone has that experience if they get the cat basket out and the cat runs and hides and there's nowhere to be seen. And then you have to drag them out from under the bed or something and they're all claws trying to stop themselves from being put in this basket because they associate it with an unpleasant trip to the vet.

even if your cat is already terrified of the cat basket, you can train them to like it and to go into it. So when it comes to the cat basket, scientists have shown that if you train your cat to go in the basket, when they get to the vet, the vet visit goes much easier and better for the cat, and the vet is more likely to be able to actually complete their exam. So it's actually a really important thing to do. Whereas teaching tricks is a fun thing and it can be enrichment for your cat. So it can be a fun thing for an indoor cat to do in particular, but any cat, can be trained and we need to find something that they will work for. So typically that's going

to be small amounts of food like little pieces of tuna or you can get the tubes of wet cat treats that many cats go absolutely well for those. So a few licks of those and you break a behavior down into small stages and you just work gradually through a plan to teach them to do something. And also keep it out because we've talked about safe spaces for cats and now your cat basket can become a lovely safe space for your cat to just hang out in and relaxing. And sometimes when I can't find my cat Harley, the place I have to go and look is his cat basket because that's where he's chosen to go and hang out. And that's a really nice thing.

Of course, you can then have extra steps of closing the door briefly. So your cat gets used to being shut in there for short periods and then maybe used to being carried about and used to being put in the car and then got out of the car again. So you can have lots of different steps to break it down. But that's the basic outline of what to do. So when you're talking about cats learning different tricks, can a cat effectively do anything a dog can? So can you teach a cat, for instance, to sort of shake hands,

like put out their paw? Is that something that cats are capable of? Yes, you can teach them to shake poor or high five or sit pretty with their paws up. That particular one, they tend to find easier than dogs because dogs have to learn to balance when they sit up like that. whereas cats, because of the way that they tend to look for animals sitting up with their front paws up, is actually kind of a more natural behavior for a cat anyway. You can teach them to walk on a harness and leash if you want to,

and that's something that some people with indoor cats like to do. That's easier if you start with them as a kitten, but you can start with an adult cat as well, and you just have to go more slowly. So any kind of thing like trick or behavior that you want to teach, you can do, You can also teach cats to do nosework, and this can be a fun activity for indoors cats as well. So nosework for dogs is kind of like dogs being sent dogs like when dogs are going to go searching for drugs or other kinds of things. It's the same kind of thing that you can do with the cat.

If you just want to try it at home, you can get a cardboard box or several cardboard boxes, shut your cat in another room for a moment, spread the boxes out, put a treat in each box, let your cat in the room to come and find them. And this is just a really fun activity. Let them come and explore and find the treats. Once they've done it a few times, two or three times is probably going to tie your cat out for the time being. That's all you need to do in one go.

But the next time you try it, your cat will see the boxes and they'll be all excited and they'll come running into the room. And you can actually build up from that if you want teaching your cat to search for a particular sense. And there are places online where you can do it. You can also do trick cat certifications if you want to. So there's actually a whole load of activities these days that you can do that involve training your cat that people never used to even think about in the past.

I think a lot of people would think that dogs are simply smarter than cats. Can you settle this scientific argument? Are dogs smarter than cats? I think dogs and cats are as smart as they need to be for the household that they live in and the niche that they live in. So, no, we can't really compare them in that way, and they've evolved differently, and they have some different needs, although some of their needs are the same. And to some extent, a different relationship with us. But, you know, most people don't bother to train their cat, but once you start to train your cat, you realize that you can actually do quite a lot with them if you want to.

Is it easier to train a dog than it is a cat? Well, most dogs have a long history of being trained. So if you start training an adult dog, they've usually had some kind of training in the past, and I think that really helps that history. Whereas if you start training an adult cat, they haven't had any of that history. No one's ever tried to train them in the past. So it may take them longer to get the idea that, oh, it feels to us like it's taking them longer to get that idea that they can work for food.

And it's really because they haven't had these opportunities before. So it's also the case, I think, that because there aren't training classes to teach us, how to train a cat, that we also have to work on our skills, whereas if you go to a dog training class, automatically you're getting some training yourself in how you should do the training. Like in terms of delivering the treats quickly, having the right kind of treats available, knowing what kinds of treats your cat will work for, that kind of thing. So people aren't used to it and cats aren't used to it yet. And that does mean there's a bit of a learning curve.

The other thing with cats is that if they're enjoying the training, often, you may have to take a little pause while your cat comes and robs their head on you and purrs a lot and is just kind of generally happy. They're not necessarily going to be ready to move on to the next go at the trick right away. So you have to be a bit patient and just enjoy it as a nice experience for both of you. Dogs are often described as our best friends. Do you think there'll ever be a time when cats will have that title? I think people have very strong cultural beliefs about dogs and cats, but I think cats really are our best friends as well, sometimes perhaps in a different way, but so many of us have really good relationships with cats. And the thing is, so long as a cat

has been socialized during the sensitive period for kittens, which is between two and about seven weeks, if they've met multiple different people in that time, then they're going to grow up to be friendly to people. Of course, we all know that you can get what we call feral cats who haven't had those experiences who live on their own, who don't necessarily need any help from people whatsoever. But for pet cats, they have grown up with us and they like to be around people. And we know that they like hanging out with us. They like to be in the same room with us. We know that they like to show affiliated behaviours like the way that they come and rub their head on us or even their whole body on us. And these are all things that show us that cats like us, even simply

if they're choosing to be in the same room as us. Because not all cats are lap cats. Some cats love to sit on our laps. Some cats would like to be in the same room but a little bit further away. That's fine. That might be a slightly shy of cat, but that cat is still choosing to be with you and they're still being friends with you. So cats really do offer us a lot of friendship, and I don't think they always get the credit for that. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building.

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and unforgettable listening experiences at home. Try it for yourself at a focal powered by name boutique. Visit focal powered by name.com for more information. One of the biggest questions I think cat owners have is when their pet goes out and kills something like a mouse and then drags it back home. Why do cats do this? Is it to show the owner how to hunt? Is it supposed to be a gift? We don't fully understand exactly why they do it. One thing we do know is that when kittens are young, the mother cat will bring prey to them and kind of teach them how to hunt. So they will bring prey in various different states of alive or not quite alive so that the

kitten can learn to hunt. And so that's kind of a bit structured as well. So it is quite possible that they're trying to teach us how to hunt. Another possibility is simply that they're showing us, look what I caught, and they're bringing it back because they're glad that they've caught it. But at the same time, because we feed them nice food, which is considerably tastier than a dead mouse or whatever it is that they happen to have caught, that they're not actually going to go through and finish by actually eating the thing that they've caught because we give them something tastier to eat. And I think some possible evidence for that is the fact that some recent research showed that if cats are fed a higher quality food, they're actually less likely to be hunting and catching

some kinds of prey. So I think that's possible as well, but we don't fully understand. It's certainly not very pleasant when a cat brings something back in like that, but it is for some cats a normal cat behaviour. Is it just really difficult to know what a cat is thinking? I guess it's extremely hard to get a cat in a lab environment to study them. I think that's one of the problems. I mean, obviously we can't ask them what they're thinking,

but cats are so used to being at home that research goes much better if it's the kind of research that you can do in the home, either with someone coming into the home, although of course that will upset some cats, or if it's something that the cat's guardian can take video or a diary or do something, then the cat is able to display their behaviors much more naturally. Whereas if you take cats into a laboratory, some cats will be okay with that,

but those cats are really quite rare because most cats are not used to being taken anywhere, except perhaps the vet. And so it's an experience that's going to freak them out. Some research is done in laboratories where the cats live in laboratories and some of the pet food studies, for example, the cats live in the pet food environment that, you know, they have a whole set up for them. And those kinds of cats will be behaving in a more natural way there because that's what they used to.

But it does make studying cat behavior quite difficult, really. Part of the issue has also been that people haven't spent as much time studying cats. So there's been a lot more research on dogs and cats are still catching up, even though there is more interest now than they used to be. we still have a lot more to be done. With that said, though, what are the biggest cat behaviours that are misunderstood? What are the most misread signals? I think some of the cat body language is really misunderstood and probably the classic example will be when a cat rolls over and shows their tummy and someone unfortunately thinks they are asking for their tummy to be petted. And if you reach out in

that moment, quite likely the cat will actually get offended and run off or if you're unlucky, they may even try to bite you or scratch you because it's more as if they're showing that they're comfortable and they feel safe in showing you their tummy they are not inviting you to pet them on the tummy at all and actually that's not where cats prefer to be petted. Mostly cats prefer to be petted around the head where the scent glands are around the face and the head and in the places where they would rub their head on you if they were rubbing your head on you. So I think that's a common one and especially that's one that people who are more used to dogs tend to get wrong. They think that the cat wants to be petted on the tummy when they don't. Do you think some quote-unquote loving behavior

from cats is misinterpreted? So for instance, when they're rubbing themselves against you, is it just them spreading their own scent? That's an interesting one because it is a behavior that cats will do to other cats that they are close associates with. So between cats, this is a friendly behavior and we think they are creating a kind of group scent that says that we kind of smell the same, we're all friends. And so we think they're doing exactly the same thing when they rub their head on us. Basically, they're treating us as if we're another cat and saying that they're friends with us in the same way. So they are sharing their scent with us. And also we see that cats will rub their head on the environment. And sometimes in your home,

if there's a space where your cat has rubbed their head repeatedly, you'll see it may even kind of go a kind of yellowy brown color where they have deposited pheromones on there. And they can detect that in the environment and that helps to make them feel safe. And if we would to go around and clean it away, actually, that would make the cat a bit unhappy and they would have to start all over again in creating this scent that makes them feel safe and secure. Do you ever think that we humanise cats too much there and treat them too much like people? I think sometimes people do, especially when it comes to the negative stereotypes about cats because there are quite a few negative stereotypes which are completely wrong, but people are

quite happy to talk about cats as jerks and loners and so on, or even jealous, for example. And I think we're attributing too much to cats when we do that and we need to recognize cats as cats, basically, is who they are. And we don't fully understand them. But the more we can understand what they need at a species level and at an individual level, then the better our relationship is going to be with them. Meow, indeed. There is a growing number of people on social media claiming that they can talk to cats. Is there any scientific evidence that people can talk to cats? So I think you mean talking as in meowing at the cat. So one of the things that does happen is that if you meow at a cat, a cat will often meow back. And sometimes you can actually

have quite a long sequence where you say meow and the cat says meow. One of the things to know is that adult cats typically don't meow at other cats. This seems to be something that has evolved as a way for them to communicate with us. And there are differences in the meows that cats make, but they're quite individual to that specific cat. So if you play someone a recording of a cat meowing and you say, is this cat hungry or is this cat separated from their guardian and they want some attention, that kind of thing?

And you ask them, if it's their own cat, they're actually quite likely to be able to understand what it means. But if it's someone else's cat's meow, they're not very likely to get it. So those meows are very individual. to their relationship with us. So if you're paying close attention to your cat, you might be able to work that out. Just as an example, my cat Harley absolutely loves to be brushed and he has a different meow when he wants to be brushed compared to the meow when he wants to be fed, which is a bit more insistent, to be honest, a bit more demanding. So if you're paying attention to your cat, then probably

you can pick up on those things. But of course, when people are just making videos for social media, We don't know the full context. We can't say for sure what the cat is actually saying in those circumstances. So, no, we don't really know. It's not the same as doing a scientific study and finding these things out. Another thing to bear in mind is to do with the purr, because cats make this lovely, wonderful purring sound. And it turns out that actually some cats, when they want something,

there's a change in the purr. So the change in the frequencies of the purr to include some kind of higher notes, which are closer to those of a baby's cry, when a baby is hungry and wants feeding and is crying. So we call that the cry within the purr, and that's a different per, which is a lot more kind of insistent in a way when the cat is about to get fed and they're saying,

feed me, feed me. And that's different from a per when they're just plain and simple happy, which is more pleasant to our ears, let's put it that way. Are there any other ways that humans would be able to better verbally communicate with cats? Well, I think cats like it when we, use what we call pet directed speech. Cats do pay attention to what we're saying. They know when we're paying attention to them. Research shows that they recognize their own name.

There's even a study that suggests that cats who live in homes with more than one person come to learn the names of the people in the home, probably because they hear them associated with that. And so pet directed speech is when we put on a silly voice and talk to our cat in the same way that people might talk to a baby or to a dog. And it does seem that cats like that kind of speech. They like being talked to in that way as well. So yeah, it's definitely worth paying attention to how we talk to our cat. You mentioned anxiety previously, and anxiety and stress seem to be quite a big problem for cats and pets in general. Why is that? I think often people's homes aren't set up as well for cats as they could be. So what scientists

think is the number one issue affecting pet cats is actually behaviour issues because of their home environment not being right for them. And that's often because it's set up for us and people aren't paying enough attention to what the cats need. So they're not providing those hiding spaces or the scratching places because scratching is a natural behavior. And that's something that often people have conflict with their cats over because they don't realize that how important it is for them to provide the right kind of scratching post. And it's really important for keeping cats claws in good condition and so on. And also a lot of people, perhaps if they don't like what their cats do,

maybe they're going to yell at them, or sometimes we hear of people doing things like squirting their cats with water, don't ever do any of those things to your cat, because that will make them quite anxious. It's really important. If you're thinking about your cat's behavior, that you think, first of all, of what you need to provide in their environment,

that will set it up right for them. And that in itself might be enough to change their behavior, but also that you think of any training that you might do to help them, Just to give another example then in terms of scratching posts, you can give your cat a treat for using the scratching post and that will help to make them more likely to use the scratching post in future. And that's an example of positive reinforcement training again. If you do things that upset your cat, then basically it's going to make them anxious. And then if you have a really anxious cat or if you have a sudden change in your cat's behaviour, then it's really important to go and to see your vet just in case there's a medical issue. So you're talking about spraying a cat is not good in any way.

Why is it that cats hate water in particular? Oh, well, it's not all cats. Just occasionally there is a cat who likes something watery. And sometimes we get cats who like, especially to drink from the tap or something. But most cats don't like to get wet. It's something they find unpleasant. And it's unfortunate that people try to use this to teach their cat to do things. It's not that it doesn't work.

it does work because cats don't like it, but it's something that's going to make them stressed and anxious, especially because if they associate that with you, then they're associating that unpleasant experience with you and that is potentially going to affect their relationship with you. So a concept that comes up quite a bit if you delve into the research of cat behaviour is something called notony or neotony. What is actually is it?

So neotony is to do with juvenile behaviour and in pets, including dogs and cats, we see that juvenile features get extended into adulthood in a way that wouldn't happen in wild animals. So we may still see more juvenile behavior. And I think it's likely partly because we enjoy those aspects of being with an animal when they're youthful and playful. And also like those looks when they look kind of more young, there's some research that shows that we tend to like those kind of looks more. So perhaps this is something that we've tried to breed pets for to become more neotenous and to seem more like juvenile animals. And that perhaps is bringing out our caring instinct when we're spending time with them.

So are we effectively trapping our pets in childhood? I wouldn't go so far as that. But certainly, I think cats especially are an interesting example because most cats actually could still completely survive on their own, like if they suddenly didn't have us, or if they left and decided to live on their own, they could still catch their own food and they could still do all of those things. But at the same time, we do do a lot of things for them,

and I think we do value some of those kittenish behaviours, which can certainly be a lot of fun to be around. Does this concept explain why a lot of cats meow around their owners? Quite possibly, because I think certainly we see some behaviours that kittens do with their mother cat that are expressed to us, and perhaps one of the most common ones of those is the way that cats need when they're happy and they're sitting on our lap they will need. And this is something that kittens will do when they're with their mom and their nursing, they will need the mom. So we don't fully understand why they do with us, but certainly that's a kittenish behavior that's been carried through to us.

And yes, I think it does apply to the meow as well in that kittens will make noises like that and it becomes something that they do to us, but it's not something that they will do to other adult cats. Something I think a lot of cat owners will wonder is why on earth do cats sleep so much? Cats do sleep quite a bit and they have the same kind of sleep cycle as us but on a shorter, shorter lengths basically. And cats like to nap a lot during the day and really in a way they're crepuscular so they would normally be most active at dawn and dusk. But they do adjust their clock to how they spend time with their human. and napping is important for them. I wish I could nap like a cat does sometimes.

But also, one thing to be really careful of is if your cat seems to be sleeping too much, sometimes when a cat is anxious, they will pretend to sleep, but they're not actually sleeping. And this is much more likely if you're looking at a cat in a shelter that you might see this, but just occasionally that's something to look out for. But no, I mean, a happy cat is going to be spending time doing different things throughout the day. and that will include taking time for a cat nap

as well as all the other activities like grooming and play and hanging out with you that cats engage in. What is your favourite scientific fact about cats? It's about the slow blink. It's that cats like it when we slow blink at them. So a slow blink is that lovely signal that cats do. It's something that involves lifting the lower eyelids as well as closing the top ones.

And I think lots of cat owners instinctively do this to their cats anyway. So I love that scientists actually tested what happens when you go and do a slow blink to a cat, and most likely the cat is going to slow blink back at you, which I think instinctively is something that we would all hope to see is what we love to see. Certainly, it's something that I just do naturally when I meet a new cat. I often will do it. But we will see our own cats, slow blinkatters in that, you know, if you're sat relaxing in the evening, the cat's on the other side of the room.

Maybe they will slow blink at you or even do a slow blink at you. or even do a slow blink and then just look away to the side. And I think it's a really lovely sign of affiliation from a happy cat who is relaxed and friendly with you. And I think it's just beautiful that scientists went and tested this. So does this study show that if you want a cat to like you more, you just do a few of those slow blinks. And did you say move your head to the side as well?

Yeah, a slow blink and then just turn your head slightly a little bit to the side because cats don't like to be stared at. so you do the blink and then you just look away. Most cats will do it back to you. And yes, it seems to be a good way to start to make friends with a cat if it's a new cat that you're interacting with. And just to confirm, this doesn't work with humans as well. No, humans will think, what are you doing?

This is a bit weird. That was Aziton, author of Per The Science of Making Your Cat Happy. Thank you for listening to this episode of Instant Genius, brought to you by the team behind BBC Science Focus magazine, which you can find on sale now in supermarkets and newsagents as well as your preferred app store. You can, of course, also find us online at sciencefocus.com. This podcast is sponsored by Name, Audio and Focal. The texture and emotional depth of music can be lost through digital sources or poor signal.

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