Instant Genius - The future of panda conservation

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

There can be few animals as iconic and instantly recognisable as pandas. The black and white bears are beloved the world over thanks to their distinctive appearance, entertaining personalities and relative scarcity. In this episode we catch up with Kristine Gandia a researcher based at the University of Sterling. She tells us what she has learnt during her time observing and studying these fascinating animals. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Jason Goodyear, commissioning editor at BBC Science Focus magazine. There can be few animals as iconic and instantly recognisable as pandas. The black and white bears are beloved to the world over, thanks to their distinctive appearance, entertaining personalities and relative scarcity. In this episode, we catch up with Christine Gandia, a researcher based at the University of Stirling. She tells us what she's learnt during her time observing and studying these fascinating animals. So first off, I think you must have what a lot of people would think is one of the best jobs in the world. That you're working studying pandas. So how did you start doing that?

Yeah, so definitely lucky to work with pandas. I started because I had started my PhD and we were trying to start to think of what projects we might want to do and what species to work with. So my PhD is focused on circadian rhythms, which I think we'll talk about a bit later. We were trying to think of a species that would be a good example species to look at that because we were looking at welfare with circadian rhythms. And we decided to work with pandas because they have pretty seasonal lives and they would be a pretty good example. And they also have webcams that are all around the world that would let us look at pandas at different latitudes and see how latitude location might affect circadian rhythms that are regulated by light and temperature. So really they were just a very good model species for the question

that we were asking. But definitely my work was going to be hopefully applicable to just all species that are captive, but pandas were just ideal. And like you said, everybody loves them. So they're going to have a far reach when it comes to research. Great. So before we get into, like you said, your research projects, let's have a quick sort of Panda 101's. So I think, I mean, maybe a lot of people have seen them in the zoo, but some might not have. So what do they look like? How big are they? How much they weigh? You know, what sort of size are they? So they're one of the smaller bears. There are several species of bears. And yeah, they're definitely the bottom three. So they're bigger than sloth bears, but smaller than sun bears and definitely

smaller than black bears, brown bears, polar bears, which are massive. So I don't know exactly their weight. I think maybe around 200 something pounds for a lot. adults, but yeah, they're definitely on the smaller side of bear species. So how long do they live for? So they live for about 20 years in the wild, but they can live much longer like most species in captivity. So in captivity, I think the oldest bear that was recorded was about 38 years. And right now, I think the oldest bear that is alive is around 20. or 30. So yeah, but in the wild and with natural conditions, you know, they live for about 20.

So they're kind of, what could you say, an emblematic species for conservation efforts around the world. So what's their current status, you know? Are they still endangered? So they were actually, a few years ago, they were switched from being endangered to vulnerable. So this was due to all the conservation efforts for them, which was really positive and really encouraging for the research that has been done to try to improve that. Whereabouts do pandas live? What's their natural habitat? And, you know, what zoos are they in at the moment? So pandas, they have a historic range. Right now, their current range is much, much smaller than their historic range due to, yeah, habitat loss, which is a huge issue for species everywhere. And so, but their range was from the latitudes between 26 degrees north and 42 degrees north.

And their habitat is, their historic range is actually the habitat is quite variable. So they can live from the lowlands all the way up to like high in the mountains. But they migrate. So depending on where they live, they might migrate. to different locations in that habitat. So I've heard that pandas are rented out to zoos. Is that true? Yes.

So pandas are little diplomats. So China does own all pandas except for one panda. Before it was two, before it was two Mexican pandas, but one of them passed away this year. So the reason for this is because in that time when Mexico had these pandas, China decided that all the pandas were going to be, but they were going to own all of them. And so they rent them out, usually as diplomatic gifts to different countries. But then they allowed Mexico to keep their two pandas. But all of their offspring would then also belong to China. So yeah, but they are, they are definitely. diplomatic gifts. So yeah, they are politicians, I guess. So we mentioned earlier the conservation efforts that are surrounding pandas. But one sort of famous thing about them is that they mate very infrequently. So why is that? The females, they actually only go into estrus once a year for only

a few days. So that's why it's so difficult to breed them because you have to, you only get that one opportunity. It's about four days, four to, yeah, six days, something like that, where yeah, she's releasing the egg. And yeah, so they have to have everything very much in order and make sure that the mate that she has is the one that she wants. One thing that they found out with captive pandas is that, well, with pandas in general, is that their mating system involves mate choice. So females are going to choose in the wild between several different males, and she'll choose her favorite. So in captivity, since she doesn't have that choice, they usually, well, yeah, they rent them out in pairs normally, so a breeding pair, a male and a female. So if the female doesn't

like her mate, that can make it quite difficult. And artificial insemination is obviously a lot more difficult than the natural mating. So the success rate is usually, yeah, it's difficult to have a high success rate with artificial insemination. So another sort of famous thing about pandas is their unusual diet. So is it true that they only eat bamboo? So they are omnivores, but yeah, yeah, like 99% of their diet is vegetarian and they mostly do eat just bamboo, which yeah, they are advocates for vegetarians everywhere. What's really interesting is that they evolved a pseudo thumb in order to do this. So they have a bone that's part of their wrist that has adapted in order to become like a fake thumb so that they can grab and manipulate

bamboo, which is a pseudo thumb that no other bears have, only them. So how much bamboo do they eat in the day? It's a lot, isn't it? Yeah. So they don't have a digestive system that is adapted to take out the nutrients, like efficiently from bamboo. So they're not like cows or ruminants in general. that they have, they will like throw it up and eat it again, you know, to digest it better with several different stomachs. They don't have any of that. They have the normal digestive system of a carnivore, which means that in order to get the proper amount of nutrients, they have to eat a lot of bamboo. So we found that they actually spend, so 70% of their active time, so when they're not resting, 70% of the time, they are eating bamboo. So they, yeah, watching them, they

are mostly going to be either eating or sleeping. With all of that bamboo, though, they go to the toilet a lot, don't they? Yes. So that was that, that was another part of the data that that we collected, you know, urinating, defecating. That was a funny thing to record. But I don't, I'll be honest, I don't remember how much, I don't think we looked very specifically at that data. So I'm actually not sure. But definitely on the video, you can see their little poop pellet everywhere. It's like little green cylindrical pellets everywhere. So yeah. Sort of in a similar vein, one thing that I've heard that I don't know if it's true or not is that sometimes when they have a we, they do a handstand. Did you see that? So that handstand urination is actually part of, it's not,

they don't always do it. So that's part of their mating strategies. So the males will do handstand. and try to pee high up on a tree or something. So it's like kind of like they will try to see which male can urinate the highest. And that's kind of a competition to show like their fitness levels. And like, yeah, I'm a better mate because I'm bigger. I can pee higher. You know, I'm stronger. I can do this handstand and achieve that.

So yeah, it's kind of like this invisible competition between the males. So yeah, really interesting. and really funny to see. Yeah, sort of another sort of weird physical thing that they do is I've noticed when I've been watching them, they always roll around a lot. Do we know anything about that? They're always doing roly polis.

So that's just play behavior, which is really good to see. Well, there's two sides to it. If it's not too repetitive, it's definitely play behavior. So they like, they do like to play. I don't know if you've seen videos of pandas in the snow, in the seasons when there's snow. They definitely like to roll around and just, or pandas with bamboo, they've had like Kung Fu Panda videos where they're swinging the bamboo around. So they do play.

But sometimes that behavior, in captivity, if it becomes too repetitive. So if they just do somersaults and somersault after somersault, that's actually a sign of, it could be a sign of some kind of. stress. So we do need to kind of, when we're doing observations, behavioral observations, we try to tell that apart. Are they doing it as plain? Or is it becoming too repetitive where it seems to be a signal of some kind of stress? This podcast is sponsored by Name, Audio and Focal. With over 100 years of combined expertise, Name and Focal have been bringing music to listeners just as the artist intended. Since day one, this. mantra has shaped every innovation in hi-fi design, technology and acoustic engineering, balancing

craftsmanship and tradition with pioneering thinking. Name Audio pushes cutting-edge technology to ensure digital precision whilst sustaining Pratt, pace, rhythm and timing, the elusive quality that makes music feel alive and gives it emotional texture. Today, in partnership with French acoustic specialist focal, name audio creates systems, that deliver exceptional sound and unforgettable listening experiences at home. Try it for yourself at a focal powered by name boutique. Visit focal powered by name.com for more information. So another really distinctive thing about pandas is their markings.

So it seems strange on the surface. So why are they black and white when they live in a bamboo forest? Do we know anything about that? So scientists aren't completely sure why they're black. Black and white, I think it's definitely one of the mysteries of how they became black and white or why they became black and white. But the leading hypothesis is that it's a form of camouflage. So the black will help them camouflage in a bamboo forest, you know, where it's darker. And then the white is going to help them camouflage in the snowy season.

So they do transition between snow and just, yeah, normal. and no snow. So a lot of other species, they will change colors depending on the season. So the hypothesis is that instead of changing colors from black to white, they just kind of have both all the time and it just kind of works. But ultimately, there's no, like, yeah, they're not sure. Scientists aren't completely sure yet. So pandas, like you say, they're bears. And most bears are kind of scary, grizzly bears, polar bears. Pandas are kind of cute. Well, maybe all bears are kind of cute.

But are pandas are threat to humans? Yeah, that is definitely an issue that I've seen that people think that pandas are cute. And there are actually videos online where humans will go into a giant panda closure because, yeah, they think they can go up to a panda bear and cuddle it because they're smaller bears. They're really cute.

You know, they're shown in the media is very cute, but yeah, they get mulled. So they, yeah, no easy way to say that. Like they have teeth, they are carnivores, they have the teeth of carnivores, and they are not because they're solitary, but it probably doesn't help that they're solitary that they don't, they will get aggressive if they're bothered. So, yeah, they're bears ultimately at the end of the day. So they will, yeah, they are ferocious. They are not safe for humans.

But keepers, zookeepers, you know, they know how to work with their animals. So they're, but they always, they don't work with pandas directly. You know, it's always through a barrier, just like with most carnivores in zoos. Yeah, I just realized, I've seen some footage of people in China keepers wearing like panda outfits when they're working with them. Have you seen that? Yes. So that is to avoid habituation because those facilities are usually ones where they're going to be releasing those cubs back into the wild. Pandos tend to mature and they're ready to separate from their, well, they reach adulthood around like six years of age. And cubhood, so when they're dependent on their mother is from, they'll be dependent on their mother until two or three.

So the ones that are being released back into the wild, they don't want them to be used to humans. So the keepers will wear these panda outfits and it looks quite funny. But it has a purpose. You know, they're not just having a laugh. They want to avoid these pandas getting used to humans and wanting to approach them if they come across them in the wild. You know, the reaction that we want is for them to try to avoid humans because they're not used to them. So let's move on to your recent work then. to study on panda's circadian rhythms. So first off, can you explain what a circadian rhythm is?

Yeah, so circadian rhythms are quite universal. So humans and most animals and even plants have circadian rhythms. So circadian rhythm, what we think of, well, humans especially, what we think of when we think of circadian rhythms is that rest and sleep cycle. So it's just the, it's the cycles of of activity. However, it extends to internal clocks as well. So all of our physiological processes are also regulated by a circadian clock. So our metabolism, our breeding behaviors for many animals. So it actually, and even social behaviors can be regulated by circadian clocks.

So it's just the rhythm of all of these different systems. systems and what we want, there's like a harmonious rhythm. So it's definitely like a, yeah, what you want is a harmony between all of these clocks. So what you can tell is like when your sleep gets thrown off, everything else gets thrown off. Like you feel sluggish. Your, your feeding gets strange. And yeah, so we want all of that to be in synchrony. So let's look at your study then? Like, what approach did you take to this? So we had five zoos that we looked at with 11 pandas. And the goal was to record their circadian rhythms of behavior. So we looked at the entire, pretty much the entire repertoire of giant panda behavior. And we wanted to see how these

cycles would change throughout the day and then also throughout the year, throughout the season, since they are seasonal animals. And then on top of the cycles, of that, since we had several zoos around the world, we also wanted to look at the effects of latitude because circadian rhythms are regulated by things like light and temperature and feeding. So like with humans, especially when we get jet lagged, it's because that lighting is off, like our body is expecting a different signal. So what we wanted to ask was if animals are moved to latitudes with different external signals and cues, would that also affect their behavioral cycles? So what we did was to look at these 11

pandas in these five zoos through cameras, online cameras, and look at the live feed and just record their behavior for one 24-hour period every month for a whole year so that we could see how the 24-hour cycle looked and then how that yearly cycle looked. We don't know how they would change within a month because we only got an estimate of a day each month. But we could see how that daily cycle changed throughout the year, which was really interesting. Yeah, so what did you find? So what we found was, well, we found quite a bit. So for the daily cycle, they have three peaks of activity, just how the pandas in the wild do.

So they have two peaks during the day and then one at night. And what's really funny about that nighttime peak is that it's kind of a midnight snack that they have. So they will wake up, yeah, literally in the middle of the night around midnight to chew on some bamboo and then they'll go back to sleep. So and then throughout the year, they have their, so they have a migratory period. They migrate in the spring, which is at the same time as their breeding season. and we did see that like the activity did increase during during the spring because that would be when they would naturally want to migrate. And what we found with the latitudes though was really interesting where we saw that pandas that were

at mismatched latitudes, they showed lower levels of activity. And pandas in both latitude locations did show abnormal behaviors, but the site of those abnormal behaviors was more sporadic in those mismatched latitudes. So what could we learn from this? What advice can we give to zoos that are keeping captive pandas? So this is something that is applicable to all species where when we have, when we can predict these cycles of behavior, we can guess, well, we can anticipate their needs. So it's, If we know that in the spring, well, for example, in the spring, the reason that they migrate is to follow bamboo shoots. So if we can give them bamboo shoots leading up to that season or in that season, we can likely improve the synchronicity of their circadian rhythm.

And so if we know what these cycles look like throughout the day and then throughout the year, we can anticipate what changes their. going to go through and what they might need with those changes. And we can also, in captive environments, try to create an environment that is more like their natural ones. So with those natural lighting rhythms so that they can regulate their clocks better. And also like that, those seasonal temperatures, we'd like to match them because they're also regulating according to the temperature. So we just want to create a more natural environment that encourages those internal clocks to run at the right speeds and be in synchrony with each other. That's really interesting. And I think something that probably a lot of people have never even thought about, you know, that's really something to think about.

So do you have any plans for follow-on studies? Yes. So it would be really great to look more in-depth at those, at sexual-related behaviors just because, yeah, they are a vulnerable species, and they obviously have a lot of concerns with conservation. And what we found also with the sexual-related behaviors is that they are actually associated with the abnormal behaviors. So they kind of switch one behavior for the other. So when the sexual-related behaviors decrease, those abnormal behaviors are increasing. And the most common abnormal behavior was pacing.

So it could definitely be related that since they migrate at the same time as the breeding season, they're kind of replacing those kinds of behaviors. The future study could be to look at those hormones in more detail. So we didn't get to look at the hormonal data. But if we can determine those cycles of the hormonal data, not just in the breeding season, but outside of the breeding season as well. And then also look at the, so a lot of zoos already look at hormonal data for the female to determine when she's an estrus since it's such a small window.

But it would be really interesting to see the male hormones as well and see how they synchronize and what external environmental factors might be regulating them. Because we couldn't determine from our study with behavior what environmental factors were regulating these sexual-related behaviors. So obviously a lot of this work is making the animals more comfortable and more sort of living more naturally. But also you mentioned the breeding there. Do you think this can all have a positive effect on that? Yes. So definitely our work is aimed at improving their welfare, but then also improving conservation efforts. Because if we can understand, if we can take like a broader view at what is influencing these

breeding behaviors and hormones, then we would better know how to maybe regulate them. Because if it turns out that, for example, if it's a lighting queue that is going to trigger these hormones, then we want to make sure that we're giving them that cue at that time of year when the body is expecting it. Because if it's not, then it'll just get thrown off. And there have been studies with other species where light pollution or light from certain zoo events will trigger breeding behaviors at the wrong time of year, and it just kind of throws it off for the normal breeding season. So we want to make sure that we can trigger these hormones and breeding behaviors at the right time

so that it all goes smoothly. And it's because it's an adaptation to show these at certain times. So we want to make sure that we're going along with those evolutionary adaptations. Yeah. So you mentioned earlier that pandas are now, categorized as only vulnerable rather than endangered. So obviously something's working. I mean, are you optimistic that about the future of pandas? There's a lot of effort put into pandas and a lot of research. So there's definitely really big changes that have been made. So I definitely think that

we can improve, especially breeding for pandas. But the more difficult conservation efforts is habitat loss. And that's one that I can't say I'm fully optimistic because, yeah, as humans, we like to destroy land. And it is harder to get people to kind of give that part of the conservation efforts up. You know, where, yes, we're happy with trying to breed them in captivity to release them.

But the major changes for all species, honestly, not just pandas, is how we're destroying their land. And that is going to require a huge shift in lifestyle for the whole world in order to change that. But I still believe in humans. You know, I still think that we are making, we are kind of changing our views and understanding a little bit more every day that we aren't separate from nature. We are nature. You know, so we, I think that mindset shift is happening slowly,

where we're starting to realize, like, we don't exist without nature. So we kind of need to work with it. And, yeah, hopefully industries will become more green. But, yeah, who knows? Thank you for listening to this episode of Instant Genius, brought to you from the team behind BBC Science Focus. That was the University of Stirling's Christine Gandia. The current issue of BBC's Science Focus magazine is out now.

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