Instant Genius - Why we need to save ugly, creepy, scary and misunderstood animals

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

The natural world is filled with a rich tapestry of creatures, each occupying a unique evolutionary niche that helps to keep the ecosystems they live in functioning healthily. But the truth is, over the centuries, we humans have treated some of them better than others. Our tendency is to prefer cute, cuddly animals such as pandas or donkeys, or beautiful, majestic beasts such as elephants, eagles or tigers. Is it time that we had a long, hard look at this viewpoint, and extended our care and attention to the animals that we’ve traditionally viewed as ugly, creepy or even dangerous? In this episode, we’re joined by Jo Wimpenny an author and specialist in animal behaviour, to talk about her latest book, Beauty of the Beasts – Rethinking Nature’s Least Loved Animals. She tells us how the latest research is showing that snake venom can potentially give rise to a new category of medicinal drugs, how the insects we typically find disgusting such as maggots and cockroaches play a vital role as the natural caretakers of the environments they live in, and how, by rethinking our in-built prejudices, we can more deeply appreciate the richness and variety found in the natural world. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This podcast is sponsored by name, audio and focal. Streaming has made music more accessible than ever, but true listening is about more than ease. It's about quality. British audio experts name audio, alongside French acoustic specialist focal, combine handcrafted tradition with cutting-edge innovation and high-end materials, delivering digital precision with analogue warmth,

so you can experience exceptional sound at home. Music just as the artist intended. Visit name audio.com to learn more. Hello and welcome to Instant Genius, a bite-sized masterclass in podcast form. Every Monday and Friday, you'll hear a world-leading scientists and experts talking about the most fascinating ideas in science and technology today. I'm Jason Biger, commissioning editor of BBC Science Focus. The natural world is filled with a rich tapestry of creatures,

each occupying a unique evolutionary niche that helps to keep the ecosystems they live in functioning healthily. But the truth is, over the centuries, we humans have treated some of them better than others. Our tendency is to prefer cute, cuddly animals, such as pandas or donkeys, or beautiful, majestic beasts, such as elephants, eagles or tigers. Is it time we had a long, hard look at this viewpoint, and extended our care and attention to the animals that we've traditionally viewed as ugly, creepy, or even dangerous? In this episode, we're joined by Joe Wimpenny.

an author and specialist in animal behaviour to talk about her latest book, Beauty of the Beasts, rethinking nature's least loved animals. She tells us how the latest research is showing that snake venom can potentially give rise to a new category of medicinal drugs. How the insects we typically find disgusting, such as maggots and cockroaches, play a vital role as the natural caretakers of the environments they live in, and how, by rethinking our inbuilt prejudices, we can more deeply, appreciate the richness and variety found in the natural world. So welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining us. Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's one of my favorite podcasts. Delighted to be here.

Oh, thank you. Great to have you on. So today we're talking about your latest book, Beauty of the Beasts, Rethinking Nature's Least Loved Animals. So let's, I think, start, a good place to start is by looking at the way that we humans have thought about animals over the course of history. And there's still a belief that persists amongst some people that kind of like, as you write, animals were put on earth for the benefit of humans. So, you know, where did that idea come from? Yeah, very persistent belief, very much tied up with our ideas of human exceptionalism, that all other life is kind of here to serve us.

It's for our purpose. And really this came about with the dawn of the Abrahamic religions, Christianity, where we had this great chain of being with God at the top and then the more sort of holiest beings coming beneath God and then all other animals were kind of ordered below that according to how much they were useful to us or how much they were like us and so on and so forth. So we have this sort of hierarchy of being

that humans very much were always thought to be at the top and thought to have dominion really. over the rest of the natural world. Yeah, so having said that, at the moment, we've got sort of various animal rights charities and campaign groups. And they're essentially household names now. I bet anyone listening could name quite a few just off at the top of their head. So do you think our view of animals is changing?

Yes, you know, I think things have changed hugely in many ways. So, for example, you know, in medieval times, in the middle ages, animals were being put on trial, they were having to go through court proceedings, you know, if they were deemed to be guilty of particular crimes. And we don't really do that anymore. And people connect with animals now in a way that they perhaps didn't historically. But I do still think we have this idea of human still being this exceptional species and animals sort of, you know, we compare what other animals do very much in terms of what we do, and that's something that's kind of pervaded the way that we study them as well. You know, are animals capable of doing

things that humans do? So I think we still have this exceptionalist view, but things have absolutely changed. And yes, people certainly care more about other animals. But, you know, one of the big points of my book is that we're not caring about all of them. We're not caring about them all equally and we're not appreciating the full diversity of animals that are on this planet. Yeah, so let's have a look into that then, because one thing that I thought was interesting and worth pointing out is that this also feeds into some animals being studied scientifically in great detail, where others, you know, hardly at all. Absolutely. And again, things are so much better than they once were. There was a long time where it was really

well, just great apes that were thought of being worthwhile of scientific study in terms of their cognitive abilities, you know, their intelligence. But today we've got people studying all sorts of things and, you know, invertebrates and livestock and all sorts of things that perhaps 40, 50 years ago people wouldn't have thought were worth scientifically studying. So I would say that the comparative aspect of that kind of research has really, really grown and that's wonderful. But of course, there's still lots more that can be done to get a truly comparative idea of what's going on with other animals. So let's have a look at some of the animals that you talk about.

There aren't getting so much as much love as others. And I think a really good place to start is with snakes. Because while you do meet the odd person who's a huge fan of snakes, it's overwhelmingly more likely that you'll meet someone who has a sort of almost visceral dislike of snakes. And so why are so many of us sort of fearful of snakes? So we have a long evolutionary history with them, but very much that's with the constricting snakes. So the ones that might have predated primates,

one still do predate primates and apes and sort of would have hunted our ancestors as well. But that's clearly, you know, we're not just fearful of the constricting snakes. It's kind of applied to all snakes. And there was an idea that we have kind of this inbuilt fear specifically to snakes. And there's lots of evidence that shows that they do have this kind of privileged place in our information processing system. So our attention is immediately drawn to snake-like things. If you give people an array of little images of animals, almost certainly they'll pick out the snake, one before they pick out others. So it's a it seems like, yeah, there is something going on that we pay attention to them more.

And so, yeah, there's been this kind of idea that our co-evolutionary relationship with snakes have just been really, really important in our own history. As saying that, I spoke with Vanessa Labu, who does a lot of research on this, and she has done research that shows that infants are actually fascinated by snakes. So, well, you might expect that if we have this inbuilt fear, young children should be showing that fear. But actually, when you present them with live snakes and tarantulas, they're absolutely fascinated. They want to go and stare at them. They will sort of touch the glass and try and sort of interact with them. So it seems like perhaps we don't have this inbuilt

fear, but we have this inbuilt attention. We like, you know, we want to sort of be aware of what they're doing. And Vanessa thinks that it's maybe down to the fact that they just look so weird. You know, they don't move in a way that we're used to, and that's the same for spiders as well. They're kind of these alien-like creatures. They don't sort of obey the rules that we're used to. So I think there's kind of a few things going on there where we just, we can't help but be drawn to seeing snakes. We know that they can be dangerous, of course. Their venom can kill and does for a lot of people worldwide. And so I think they just take up this space in our heads for all of those kind of reasons. You mentioned the venom there. And I think, I mean, yeah, I think that's a big

sort of driving force of why people are afraid of them. I mean, it's rational really, isn't it? If something can harm you and even, even kill you. But in the book, you detail a lot of work going on studying snake venom for its different uses, like even medicinal uses. So can you talk us through some of those, please? Yeah, so snake venom, I mean, it's an incredible evolutionary adaptation really. And it's staggeringly complicated. So venoms are made up of all of these different biological molecules, often called like a cocktail, chemical cocktail of proteins and peptides and other biologically active things that kind of all work together in synergy. And so the diversity in venoms is absolutely spectacular. And when you think about them as these

these kind of these compounds which have evolved to allow specific snakes to really accurately incapacitate specific kinds of prey. You can see that there's this huge potential within venom science to isolate things that might actually be useful to us. And so that's what's going on. There are components within venoms that are being isolated for the very things that we fear them for. You know, so it could be that there are components that stop blood clotting properly, for example, and that's one of the things that makes venom's really, really potent, their effects on the blood system. But actually, those can be really helpful for us if we're thinking about making new medicines for people that need anti-clotting treatments. And so

another category would be their neurotoxic components. So those are the, things that might impact the nervous system. And again, you can isolate compounds, which in their natural usage are devastating, but because they are just so exquisitely adapted to target these particular reactions and these particular biological sort of entities, they could be really, really good for research. And so there are probably less than 10 sort of medicines that have been developed using these venom compounds, which is kind of incredible. And it's not just medicine now. They're being explored for other properties as well. So kind of how they might be used in pest control, how they might be used in other ways where we actually don't want to be

relying on poisons and putting things out into the environment that have these kind of broad brush impacts but where we might be able to harness these really, really targeted approaches that natural selection has done all by itself. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. It's peak pollination season and my business is scaling fast. To keep the nectar flowing flowing, I need a phone plan with top priority data speeds. That's why I chose GoogleFi Wireless.

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Visit focal powered by name.com for more information. So let's have a look at another category of the animal kingdom that a lot of people aren't particularly fond of. And that's insects. So things like maggots, flies, cockroaches, etc. And I bet, you know, a lot of people, if you were to, you know, as you say, a glass, a tank or something, and show them, they say, oh, they're icky, oh, they're disgusting. You know, it was quite a common response. You know, so where does that come from?

Definitely. That's a really, really common response. So I think there are a few things going on. So number one, insects are animals that frequently manage to get inside our homes. And there's this hypothesis, the urbanisation discussed hypothesis, which says that, you know, basically if something is intruding inside our boundaries, inside our homes, that really does trigger these kinds of responses in us. and especially if it's something like a cockroach or blies or other organisms which naturally feed on all kinds of things.

You know, cockroaches are absolutely reviled because they will just as happily feed on rotting things or on feces. All of that is fine to them because they're detritivores. they're breaking things down, that is their biological way, you know, their way of being. But, you know, if they happily move between that and our kitchens, then we have a very, very strong response against that, which is absolutely rational. So disgust is this emotion which helps us to avoid infection. It stops us from eating things that are either poisonous, toxic fruits or things that taste bitter, we feel disgust towards, but also things that actually might be detrimental to our health.

And so we can think about disgust as being part of our behavioural immune system. If we look at things, you know, such as the cockroach, which has this association with disease and with filth, that's why we feel this disgust response towards it. If we look at things like rotting flesh and maggots, which are generally found, in rotting flesh or in corpses, again, those aren't the sorts of things that we want on us because of this potential risk of infection and disease. So it happens that a lot of insects and a lot of invertebrates are found in these kinds of environments.

And I think it's very easy for people to generalise from the fact that there are a group of flies that feast on carrion. therefore most flies maybe do so too. You know, it's very easy for people to kind of make these links in their head. And we can't possibly think about what every kind of species of fly does and what it feeds on. So our brains kind of take these shortcuts and think, oh, all cockroaches are bad or all flies are bad. And that's clearly not the case. And so that's kind of another aim of the book.

It's to introduce a little bit more nuance into some of these knee-jerk reactions. Yeah, one thing that I thought was really interesting, like sticking with the cockroaches, is that kind of the, I suppose, with the maggots as well, the sort of very behaviour that makes us discuss them is actually really useful for the environment. You know, I think in the book, one of the researchers referred to cockroaches as nature's caretakers. I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, definitely. She did also go on to say, to call them cute, at least a couple of times in our conversation,

which I also thought was really interesting. But yeah, they are. They are the creatures that are doing this incredibly important job in the environment. They are mostly found living in leaf litter, and they're breaking down plant detritus or fungi or fruits. You know, they're basically guzzling up all of this stuff in the environment and helping to keep it clean. And there are getting on for about 5,000 species of cockroaches

and about 10 of them are real problems to us. Those are the ones that can reach pest proportions in our homes, like the German cockroach, the Oriental cockroach. But, you know, the vast majority of that group are not being pests. They have no interest in coming into our homes. They will happily live in the woods or in the tropical forests, sometimes up in the trees, and perform this incredibly valuable ecosystem role.

and yet our brains get stuck, don't they, on the ones that are the ones that we see depicted in popular culture, or the ones that we actually have these kind of direct interactions with. And I think that's a bit of a shame. So let's have a look at maggots then. So I think this is quite interesting because it goes a bit back to what you're saying earlier about children. So when I was younger, I used to go fishing. And quite often we'd use maggots as bait. So they don't really bother me much at all.

Like they do a lot of people. I guess it's just because I was exposed to them. But you mentioned in the book, their ability to eat sort of damaged rotting flesh, we can actually use to really effectively put them on a dressing and clean wounds in humans. Yeah, maggot therapy is incredible. It sort of blew my mind a bit when I was researching it.

You know, this is something that people have done. Historically, people did make use of maggots. because the incredible, so I do need to sort of clarify that we're only talking about one kind of maggots. So maggots are fly larvae and it's the maggots of the green bottle flies that are the ones used in medical therapy. And well, there are definitely some other fly larvae that you don't want getting into your wounds because they might actually cause a problem. But in terms of medical therapy, it's just this one particular group. And yeah, people have been putting them onto wounds to help clear. them for a long time for centuries because the really cool thing about them is that they cannot

digest healthy flesh. So they're physiologically incapable of just munching down on, you know, your healthy tissue. All they can do is digest the stuff that's infected and damaged. And so that's a fantastic property for medicine. And Maggot Therapy went out of use with the dawn of antibiotics because antibiotics were, you know, thought to be more effective. And I think people probably thought, you know, there's something a bit nicer about using antibiotics rather than relying on these little larvae. But now, of course, we've got massive problems with antibiotic resistance. And we need to be reducing our use of these treatments and of these compounds. And so that's where maggot therapy has kind of stepped back in. And so,

And so, you know, the evidence is incredible. They can clear a wound in a matter of days. And so that's extremely fast. And not only can they clean it really effectively, but they're also secreting things as they're feeding, which are really, really helpful. So, you know, maggots have evolved in these environments, which are full of potential pathogens. And so they've had to evolve their own defenses. And it just so happens that those antimicrobial, anti-inflammatory kind of compounds that they're secreting can be really helpful for us too. So yeah, the research on it's incredible. And, you know, I should maybe just put people's minds at ease that it's not like you would have a wound and then the doctor would put a handful of maggots on it.

So they're actually just contained in these little kind of mesh bags. So it's like a dresser. thing that's put onto the wound and kind of just covered. And because, you know, maggots don't have teeth, it's not like they're chomping away. It's that they're sort of secreting these compounds and these things which they can then kind of suck back up. So that's kind of the way that they're doing their wound cleaning. But of course, that's something that triggers discussed, as we already talked about. That's something that for a lot of people is kind of a step too far. And there's some quite surprising evidence that when you ask members of the public, would they be okay with having maggot therapy? It's not always the case. And sometimes people would prefer to

kind of run the risk of their limb actually getting infected and gangreness and potentially risking amputation. They would prefer that than the idea of maggots, which is kind of staggering. So before moving on, let's stick with another insect, unpopular insect. That's wasps. So most people will just think, well, you know, what's the point in wasps? All they do is land in my pint of lager when I'm in the beer garden. You know, what are they actually doing? But that couldn't be more wrong, could it?

Yeah, absolutely not. I'm a massive wasp fan now, I have to say. And it's kind of a personal crusade for me because both my brothers are not. Both my brothers hate wasps and they like to gleefully tell me. now they're killing them and the sort of methods that they use to kill them. And they've definitely said those words. You know, what is the point of wasps? There's so much more to wasps than these annoying little villains that I think people assume.

You know, they're really important pollinators. If you go out in summer and you're in a meadow, you will see wasps on flowers. You'll see them feeding because while they're also press, Predators. So two really important roles here. They're pollinators, but they're also really important predators. And it's down to their life cycle. So social wasps, which are the ones we're talking about, because there are lots of other wasps we see which are not social. And they do a different thing. They're parasitic wasps. And that's a completely kind of different ballgame. But the social wasps are the ones where there's a queen. There are workers that are going out foraging. And they are predating things like aphids. little moths, caterpillars, lots of things that we really don't want in the garden. So the wasps are performing this incredible pest control service. Completely free, they're doing all of this. They're also really important for agricultural pests.

And they take those prey items back to their nest, and they feed them to the larvae, so to the queen's babies, which are growing in that nest. So they're not really eating them for themselves, but they're taking them back for the wasp babies. Once the brood has grown up and they no longer need to do it, that's when they turn to sugar. So they're kind of, while they're in the process of hunting and things, that's when they're visiting flowers because they are mostly eating nectar and so they're doing that pollination role. End of summer, they don't have to hunt anymore and we have a lot of super saturated sugary things in the outdoors, if we're having picnics or if we're in beer gardens or the like,

which they can't help but be attracted to, you know, they're kind of like, they haven't got a purpose really anymore, but what they can do is just go around and enjoy the sugar. So that's why they're kind of coming around and bothering us. But a lot of people think that they're kind of out to get us. And that's another myth that I want to dispel. You know, they're not, they're not, not capable of being out to get us, you know, their brains aren't built that way. That's a very human thing. They're attracted to sugar and if we swat at them, then they're going to feel threatened. And if they feel threatened, then they're going to use the defence that they've got. And that's their sting. So there's a big difference between that and this idea that they're coming around

and they're wanting to sting us because they're these evil little spiteful creatures. And that's something I would really like people to realise and to think a bit more highly about them. Yeah, so moving on from that, let's have a look at another category of things that you discuss, and that's so-called ugly animals. So this is really interesting. So you talk about the extinction of the Yanksy River dolphin. So some commentators have said that, you know, at least one of the reasons this went largely unnoticed is because they're not, you know, cute like pandas or majestic like lions or tigers. And so they've kind of got ignored.

Which is, you know, when you put it that way, it's horrible, isn't it? Yeah, and that's the case for a lot of animals. The Yanksy River dolphin, you know, there was a lot. It's a much more complicated story in that, of course. But yes, so they lived in the Yanksy River in China, and yes, they were a cetacean. but they were kind of, yeah, they didn't have kind of the same appearance as, say, the bottle-nosed dolphin or the cetaceans that we perhaps know and love, because the river that they lived in was quite murky, so they didn't need much in the way of eyesight.

They were sort of described as looking a bit like a piggy piece of pink soap by one commentator. And they were let to go extinct. And, you know, like I said, there was a lot of other stuff going on. This was a really busy, and still is a really busy river with trades and ships going up and down. But it's kind of an amazing comparison that in the same country, all of this effort was being poured into saving giant pandas, which were cute and are cute and cuddly and charismatic.

And so much support has gone into saving them. And then on the flip side, this dolphin, that was only found in this one place was kind of left to slide out of existence and it's just such an astonishing comparison really. And yes, probably not very many people are aware that that River Dolphin existed and does not exist anymore. And so there are certain groups of animals

that trigger really, really strong public responses and campaigns and everybody gets behind them And that can be really helpful for those creatures. And if only we could do that for all of them, you know. But undoubtedly there are some characteristics about animals and their appearance is one of them, which means that certain animals get valued more highly than others. So having said that, there is something that you write about called the Ugly Animal Preservation Society.

So that's a new one on me, you know. Can you tell us about that? Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, so this was founded by Simon Watt, a biologist who, yeah, I think kind of saw this, was very aware of this kind of discrepancy in the ways that people supported animals based on their appearance. And his approach has been to use comedy to try and highlight to people all of the animals that they think are ugly.

He gets comedians to sort of champion these different ugly animals. and they had a competition to find the most ugly animal in the world. I think this was about 10 years ago now. I can't remember the exact date. But the winner was the blobfish. So I don't know if you have seen the sort of characteristic photo of the blobfish, this kind of gelatinous mass with this sort of downturned, you know, glum expression.

It's quite slimy. I mean, tiny little eyes. And it just sort of epitomize. what it is to be an ugly animal. And so that was taken as the ugly animal preservation society's mascot. And I believe, yes, Simon is still running sort of comedy nights for adults and also does quite a lot of stuff with schools as well. I should just say that photo of the blobfish.

I mean, it's the photo that I think so many people are aware of. But we do have to remember that it's probably not what these animals actually look like. in their natural habitat. So they're very deep-sea specialists. They kind of bounce around on the seabed. They can be gelatinous because the pressure of the water is so high down the depths that they live.

But when they get dragged to the top of the water column and they get hauled out by fishermen, obviously the pressure is quite different and I think they just kind of collapse a little bit. So these photos that we see of this poor jelly-like mass looking really depressed is probably just massive damage done to an animal that shouldn't be hauled out of the deep sea, basically. Yeah, so we've kind of did an awful lot of fascinating stuff there, but sort of by way of summary, do you think we can get over these natural biases, these fears, our preference for cuteness and beauty, and, you know, our natural sense. of disgust, you know, to do a bit of better work helping these animals? I hope so.

You know, I think that there are strong biological reasons why we experience some of these emotions towards creatures. I don't think we can just turn those off. So we will be scared of certain animals. We will feel disgust. We will think that some animals are cute because that's kind of just baked into us and our desire to care for certain animals. I don't think we can turn them off.

but I think what we can do is just be aware. I think we can be aware of why we feel these things towards certain creatures. I think we can perhaps be aware that very often the idea that we have in our minds about a particular creature, like a cockroach or a shark or a snake or a wasp, like very often it's just built on one particular species or a handful of species that are the problem ones, right? But if we look further and we look to the full diversity of those groups and we think about what those animals do and how beneficial they are in the world,

then I think that maybe we can just nudge yourselves, right? We can create a little bit more friction and try to stop these knee-jerk reactions. And we must do so because we're losing species at an astonishing rate. And I just feel like if we keep thinking that animals are either good or bad, you know, they either deserve our respect and they deserve saving or they don't. And very often we think they don't because of these outdated notions which aren't actually based on biological truth. You know, the world's going to be a much worse place, not just for the benefits that they provide ecologically, but for, you know, for the richness of life that we get to experience.

There's so much more going on in these animals. And, yeah, I hope that we can get there. Thank you for listening to this episode of Instant Genius, brought to you from the team behind BBC Science Focus. That was Joe Wimpenny. To discover more about the topics we've just discussed, check out her book, Beauty of the Beasts, rethinking nature's least loved animals.

If you liked all you just heard, then please do consider subscribing to Instant Genius on your preferred podcast. platform. If you'd like to see our guests and hosts in person, then why not check out our YouTube channel at ScienceFocus. The current issue of BBC Science Focus magazine is out now. Pick up a copy wherever you buy your favourite magazines or download us on your app store of choice. You can also find us on Apple News or online at sciencefocus.com. This podcast is sponsored by name, audio and focal. The texture and emotional depth of music

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