Instant Genius - Why we treat our pets and possessions like human beings

Episode Date: September 21, 2025

Many of us treat our pet dogs or cats with the same love and attention that with give to our human babies, some of us give our cars or other prized possessions human names and may even, at times, talk to them. This is known as anthropomorphism – the tendency within many of us to assign human qualities to non-human animals and even inanimate objects. In this episode, we’re joined by Dr Justin Gregg to talk about his latest book, Human-ish – How Anthropomorphism Makes Us Smart, Weird and Delusional. He tells us how we’ve bred our pets to look and behave in more and more human-like ways, the benefits we can all gain from attributing human-like qualities to inanimate objects such as cars or musicalminstruments, and how AI chatbots are expanding the phenomenon of anthropomorphism further than ever before. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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you'll hear a world-leading scientist and experts talking about some of the most fascinating ideas in science technology today. I'm Jason Goodyear, commissioning editor at BBC Science Focus. Many of us treat our pet dogs or cats with the same love and attention that we give to our human babies. Some of us give our cars or other prize possessions human names and many even at times talk to them. This is known as anthropomorphism, the tendency within many of us to assign human qualities to non-human animals and even inanimate objects. In this episode we're joined by Dr Justin Gregg to talk about his latest book. human-ish, how anthropomorphism makes smart, weird and delusional.

He tells us how we've bred our pets to look and behave in more and more human-like ways. The benefits we can all gain from attributing human-like qualities to inanimate objects, such as cars or musical instruments, and how AI chatbots are expanding the phenomenon of anthropomorphism further than ever before. So, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you, Jason. Thanks. Very happy to be here. So today we're talking about your book, Human-ish, how anthropomorphism makes us smart, weird, and delusional.

So first off, so we're all up to speed. What exactly do we mean by anthropomorphism? Yes, it's actually not that easy to define. There's lots of great definitions all through the scientific literature. But for the way I define it for the book, it's essentially when we treat a non-human entity, so that could be an animal or an object, like we would a fellow human. So, of course, then the question is, what does it mean to treat them like that?

Well, it essentially just means to interact with them in some way as if it were a fellow human. So in a way, pretending or maybe imagining as if it had a human-like mind. Yeah, so in the book, you talk about there being three triggers for this sort of experience, I guess you could call it. So what are they? Yeah, we could technically anthropomorphize anything. but if they have these triggers, it's way easier. It sort of kickstarts the process.

And they are, if it has human-like eyes or human-like face, that really generates it. You put a couple googly eyes on an apple and suddenly it feels more human-like. If it moves in a human-like way, so a puppet moving around like a human, that triggers it. And then, of course, language. If it's trying to communicate with us at all, or if it's actually using language like an AI chatbot, that really triggers our anthropomorphism. Yeah, so let's have a look at some of the things that do trigger this then. So I think the best place to start is with animals and specifically pets.

So I think it's likely, given what you've just said, that most people will think the first thing that will come to their mind is their pets. We give our pets human names, some of us call them our babies, and the sort of industry for things like t-shirts and even tutus and tiaras for dogs. It is huge at the moment. Why do our pets have such strong triggers for this? Yeah. When you think of anthropomorphism, that really crops up as the number one, treating our pets like little fur babies. And the question is, well, why?

In some cases, like in the case of our dogs, we have over the years bred them to more closely resemble essentially human children or human babies. We've made their faces flatter, so the snouts aren't as sticky-outy. Through the process of selective breeding, we actually create. eyebrows for dogs. They have a couple series of musculature areas in the eyebrows that make their eyebrows move like a human, so wolves don't have this. And so we've made them baby-like. And when they're baby-like, that really triggers us to treat them as moral patience, to want to help them. Because not only do they look like a human more so than a wolf, but they look like a baby human.

And so that has generated this whole pet craze. The majority of people in the UK and in North America celebrate their pets' birthdays, which is, I have never done that, but it's a fascinating fact. Yeah, so it's not just the appearances. This is something that I found interesting. It's also the sounds that they make that sort of keys this off in us. Yes, especially cats, because cats, when they make their cries and even their purrs, they resemble sonically the sounds that human babies make. So a cat per, for example, has frequencies in a frequency span that you find also in a human baby cry, which other non-domestic cats do not have that. And so they've also evolved over the years to sound more like human children. Yeah, so you've mentioned the word there evolve or evolution quite a few times.

So what are some of the common theories? Why we exhibit this behavior in the first place, like surely it must have benefited us. in some way. Yes, that is the question. I mean, if you think of what the point of anthropomorphism is, is really it's our inbuilt desire to connect with other human minds. So it's like our brains are out looking for fellow humans in the world. And of course, sometimes we do bump into a fellow human. So if I look at you and you've got eyes and you start talking to me and you move like a human, my brain is like, that could be a human. You should interact with it. Great. That's what the system is designed for. But, of course, when we see a cat and it looks kind of human-ish, it also triggers

that same feeling. So you could think of that as an error. It's gotten it wrong because it's not a human. But actually, as I argue in the book, I think it's a net positive because we end up interacting with the pets. And that brings us pleasure because the system is meant to reward you. And it also helps out the cats and the dogs in our lives most of the time. I even have a section in the book talking about objects. We anthropomorphize objects. So our tools, for example, we name our tools and we take care of them. And so there's an argument to be made that anthropomorphizing inanimate objects has actually

helped us because we're a tool using species. So if we take better care of our tools, because we're anthropomorphizing them, will be more successful. We'll talk about that in a bit more detail in the moment. But let's stick with pets at the moment. So one really interesting thing that you wrote is, What can we know about what they're thinking? For example, my parents have a German shepherd dog.

And whenever I visit, it's just obsessed with me. It won't leave me alone. And my mom always says, I can tell he's your favorite by the way that he looks at you. You know, is she way off there? Or is there something to that? That is the impossible question, really. Because I study animal cognition. So I really want to know what animals are thinking.

And we've always been taught as scientists to be wary of anthropomorphism, to not assume that they're thinking like a human, that they might not have human-like thoughts. And so we're always wanting to know how human-like are those thoughts. And so designing experiments and studies to prevent us from over-interpreting human-like thoughts is the key. But in everyday life, of course, our dogs, as I say, we bred them to interact with us along those lines. And so it certainly looks to us like they might, you know, maybe the German Shepherd does love you. Maybe they are your favorite. Or maybe that dog has absolutely no interest in you and just hopes you might give it a treat. We can't be sure.

And that's okay. We don't have to be right. Either way, you're probably going to treat that dog very kindly. And that's why anthropomorphism can be a benefit for you and the dog. Let's stick with animals just for a little while longer then. And you talk about something like an internet phenomenon in the book, which is bunny, the talking dog, who presses these, I mean, there are quite a few buttons to apparently speak to their owner and communicate with them. You know, is that just a neat trick? That's up for debate. I think if you speak with dog cognition scientists, they will say, yes, dogs are interested in communicating with us.

And we know for sure that a dog could easily map on something like if they touch the button that says outside. And they know that every time they press the button to go outside, they go outside. That's simple sort of conditioning that most animals can learn. there's nothing weird about that. But then you get the more extreme end where these dogs are having existential crises and they're asking like, why is dog? And we think, oh, the dog is confused about the nature of dogness in the universe. And so most scientists would be like, I don't think that dogs have concepts of existential crises and, you know, think about the future. We don't know for sure. But certainly it would be a probably a fanciful notion to think that they have the ability to

create a human symbol to represent abstract thoughts in those ways. But again, we can't say for sure. So let's move on to the inanimate objects then. So I find this really interesting. And in the book, you relate an anecdote about laundry monkey. And I completely, it's exactly the same sort of thing that I would do. Okay, great. Can you explain this laundry monkey story and, you know, what we can learn from it? Yeah. So I saw this little monkey. It was like a little tiny stuff monkey like three or four centimeters, not very big. It had been from, I think, a McDonald's happy meal thrown on the side of the road. This was when I was living in Drahada in Ireland. And I passed by it in the morning on the way to the train. And I was like, oh, the poor monkey, but I was late. And then

I worried about the monkey, sort of an irrational thing all day. I hoped it was okay. And then I came back in the evening and I picked it up. It was still there. And I felt bad for it. I took it home and cleaned it. And of course, I'm not a crazy person. You're not a crazy. We're not delusional. We know perfectly well that it's just a stuffed animal. It's just fabric. And yet I felt the anthropomorphism, the need to have a relationship to treat it like a moral patient throughout the day. So both of those things were true. I knew what I was doing wasn't real. It wasn't a real creature. And yet I treated as if it were. And so that's anthropomorphizing objects that look human-like. It had two eyes. It looked adorable. That's totally normal. Kids do that all the time. So, haven't said that,

are some people more prone to this than others? Yes, it sounds like you and I are in the boat of more prone to anthropomorphize. And there's research to show this. I talk about in this book, this thing called the anthropodial. So it's sort of your default setting for where you are to anthropomorphize. You and I might have a much easier time anthropomorphizing something. Other people, it takes a little longer. That puppet or the little monkey might have to talk and move in order for them to really feel the anthropomorphism. We have conscious control over it. So you and I, we could decide to pretend that something was more human-like during a game, for

example. So everybody has the ability to anthropomorphize more or less. But a default setting is definitely individually specific. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsor jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes.

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which, you know, they're cute, they have eyes, have a mouth, and, you know, they're deliberately made to be cute. funnily enough when I was younger for several years I lived in Japan and they have this cultural phenomenon of kawaii and they've got lots of even sort of there's one of my favorites is called kudetama i don't know if you know him gued tamma yeah he's it means lazy egg so he's like a sort of anthropomorphized egg yolk and he's always tired and he's always tired and he's always find him really funny, but they've really taken this and run with it, haven't they? Yes, Japan is a sort of special case when we think of anthropomorphism and kawai culture and

cuteness. Japan is all about that. And the question is, well, what's going on with Japan? That they seem to, we know from research, they suffer less from the uncanny valley. So they're less likely to be creeped out by humanoid robots. And then, of course, there's a proliferation of all of these cute, adorable, big-eyed objects or anime. So what's going on there? And if you look at the history of Japan and their culture in relation to animism, part of Shinto belief systems, were really about there being life forces and spirits in everything, including objects. And so Japan culturally, historically, religiously, has had a relationship with objects that other cultures maybe have not. And maybe that's an explanation as to why it's so easy for them to anthropomorphize non-human things. Let's have a look at about another thing that you mention, which is objects that are not human-like whatsoever. So one example you use it is guitars. So you've got some famous examples in like BB Kings, Lucille, Willie Nelson's Trigger.

And I myself, I'm a guitarist, and I gave my guitar a name. So, you know, it's Leonora, by the way. Leonora. Yeah, it means one who brings light. Love it. So I do it as well. But so what's going on there? Because it doesn't look like a human at all. No, and it's very common for people who have an object that's important to them or what they do, like boats, cars, guitars, they usually get names.

Often we give them genders and pronouns and things like that. And yes, for the most part, these things do not look anything like a human. But anthropomorphizing them is pleasurable for us. So the process feels good. Just, you know, we're rewarded for finding another human out there in the world. And so we can do it to a non-human thing that doesn't look like a human and it's pleasurable, especially if in a way we have this parasycial relationship, you and your guitar make something together. It's a tool, it's an object that's important for you. And so anthropomorphizing it probably means that you treat your guitar pretty well. I bet you put it in the case or you maybe you hang it on the wall. You don't just dump it unceremoniously on the floor.

Absolutely not. No, exactly. And so that means that that guitar will last longer and you can use it for longer. And so you anthropomorphizing a guitar means that guitar stays in better condition, means you will be a better musician. And so everybody benefits from the process of naming your guitar. So let's move on to another thing, which is kind of everywhere at the moment. And that's AI.

So I'd venture a lot of people listening will have seen the movie Her, where Joaquin Phoenix's character sort of falls in love with a bodiless AI agent. I don't know if you've seen it as well, the series Mr. Robot. Yeah. Yeah, in that series, Dom, the police officer, is going through a bit of a bad time and sit in her bed and she's very sad and so it just says, Alexa, do you love me? Yes. Which I thought was really telling.

So what's going on with this? Well, there are those three triggers for anthropomorphism and language is definitely at the top. If you think about why, I mean, if the point, point of anthropomorphizing things is that our brains are out looking for fellow humans. Language is the number one medium for which we have connected with another human mind. You and I are having a conversation, and that's only possible because I am assuming that you have thoughts and feelings and you want to know my thoughts and feelings, and language is the medium by which these two minds connect. That is why language evolved. And so when we bump across

language, it is always indicative of a human mind until AI came along. Suddenly, you're have these large language models that are using languages and they do not have minds. And our brains are not equipped to deal with a scenario where we're using language, but there isn't a mind there. And so that leaves this very uneven and confusing situation where we're having fluent language conversations with a mindless entity. So let's move on to something else that you talk about is sort of humanoid robots, I guess you'd call them. We encounter something known as the uncanny valley effect. So could you actually exercise? explain that for us? Yeah, it's a weird phenomenon and not everyone experiences it the same and

not all cultures experience it the same. But essentially it works like this. As you'd create and design something that looks like a human, the more human-like traits you add to it, the more it generates our anthropomorphism. So we're more attracted to it. But you reach a stage when you've added so many human-like traits, but then there's just a touch of non-humanness to the object or the robot, that it's creepy. Because we're almost prepared to accept it as a real human, but then something is saying, hey, something is wrong here. And that feeling is called the Uncanny Valley. It's a revulsion when dealing with this entity. And we're not exactly sure why it exists. There's lots of hypotheses as to what generates it. But it has something to do with

we've essentially our brains think we've come across a human with something terribly wrong with them. And so our brains are saying, please stay away from this creepy thing. So we're talking about pets, robots, AIs, and it's all sort of quite sort of light and fun. But can anthropomorphism ever have a negative impact on us? There are cases where people have delusional disorders, where they anthropomorphize things and they can't sort of remember that the thing that they're dealing with is not really a human. So you have this psychiatric condition called objectophilia, where you truly believe that this object is a fellow human. And it's rare, but there are cases where people will get in a long-term relationship with an object

and really delusionally believe that it loves them back. The AI issue, we're seeing this in the news all the time, people are developing dangerous relationships with AI, really believing that the AI loves them when, of course, they can't. So those are some cases where it's gone wrong. And when we're dealing with animals, you also have the problem of, people really truly believe that their pets have minds that are equivalent to their own, we might over-attribute things like jealousy to the dog,

or maybe they're being cheeky and trying to get away with something when really they're not. And we might punish the animal for acting like a human when they aren't. And so that's not fair to the animal. So how about some sort of extreme examples of this? I'm thinking of the documentary Grizzly Man with Timothy Treadwell, when he became sort of weirdly obsessed with bears, and he'd give them names like Sergeant Brown, Benny, Mr. Chocolate, they eventually ended up mauling him to death.

Yes, this happens a lot with lots of species where we are interacting with them, and 99% of the time they are acting like we would predict if they really did like us, and so we, you know, we're giving them human-like qualities, but of course they aren't human-like, and that one percent of the time, when it becomes quite apparent that they do not have the thoughts and feelings that we imagine they do and then they maul us to death. That is obviously a danger. And so especially when dealing with wild animals, I think this is an issue, but pets as well, is that we have to remind ourselves that we are engaging in anthropomorphism a lot of the time, and it's just sort of a fun game,

and that the animals might be thinking very different thoughts than what we're pretending they're thinking. So we've talked about all sorts of different angles there. Are there any kind of kind of of topics on your hit list that you want to research in the next, say, five, ten years? I'm really coming back to the AI issue at the moment. That is the one that seems to crop up a lot. And when I started to write the book a couple years ago, we were already talking about AI and large language models. But now that the book is out, it's really coming to a head. You see news stories about delusional interactions with AI. And so I would want to understand better exactly the mechanisms involved with anthropomorphizing.

large language models and develop or help think about ways to prevent children especially to interact correctly with AI in a way that is not going to be harmful for them. Because that is a brand new topic and people are very confused. And because AI is rampant, it's everywhere. Everyone's talking to large language models. But we don't really have anything in place to help people psychologically with their mental health around AI. Thank you for listening to this episode of Instant Genius.

brought to you from the team behind BBC Science Focus. That was Dr Justin Grech. To discover more about the topics we've just discussed, check out his latest book, Human-ish, how anthropomorphism makes it smart, weird and delusional. If you liked what you've just heard, then please consider subscribing to Instant Genius on your preferred podcast platform.

If you'd like to see our guests and hosts in person, then please do also check out our YouTube channel, at Science Focus. The current issue of BBC Science Focus magazine is out now. Pick up a copy wherever you buy your favourite magazines or download us on your app store of choice. You can also find us on Apple News or online at sciencefocus.com. This podcast is sponsored by Name, Audio and Focal.

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