Into the Impossible With Brian Keating - Auschwitz Survivor Rose Schindler: Never Give Up Hope! (#070)

Episode Date: September 1, 2020

  Rose Schindler survived Auschwitz and has shared her remarkable story with thousands of people over the course of 50 years. Her memories of the Holocaust have remained clear over the decades, but so has her mantra to never give up hope. Rose joins me on this special episode of the INTO THE IMPOSSIBLE podcast to talk about the book “Two Who Survived: Keeping Hope Alive While Surviving the Holocaust.” This memoir includes both her and her husband’s story. Subscribe to my mailing list to receive show notes for this episode: https://briankeating.com/mailing_list.php 06:34 The world changed in 1938. 12:16 Being a tomboy saved Rose’s life. 17:00 “If you give up hope, you’re lost.” 23:03 Lessons from the Holocaust need to be remembered. 27:06 A school project prompted Rose and Max to share their story. 34:16 Building a life in America. 42:35 Rose is still working on projects at age 90. Rose Schindler was born in Czechoslovakia in 1929 and survived Auschwitz. She met her husband Max shortly after the war and they were married in 1950. They moved to San Diego in 1956. Rose first told her story of survival to her son’s junior high class and hasn’t stopped speaking publicly about the horrors of the Holocaust since. She has received multiple awards as well as an honorary high school diploma and MBA. Learn more about “Two Who Survived” and buy your copy here: https://twowhosurvived.com Watch Rose on the Jocko Podcast https://youtu.be/Th1t1UvnYP4 Brian Keating’s most popular Youtube Videos: Eric Weinstein: https://youtu.be/YjsPb3kBGnk?sub_confirmation=1 Jim Simons: https://youtu.be/6fr8XOtbPqM?sub_confirmation=1 Noam Chomsky: https://youtu.be/Iaz6JIxDh6Y?sub_confirmation=1 Sabine Hossenfelder: https://youtu.be/V6dMM2-X6nk?sub_confirmation=1 Sarah Scoles: https://youtu.be/apVKobWigMw Stephen Wolfram: https://youtu.be/nSAemRxzmXM Brian Keating’s most popular Youtube Videos: Eric Weinstein: https://youtu.be/YjsPb3kBGnk?sub_confirmation=1 Jim Simons: https://youtu.be/6fr8XOtbPqM?sub_confirmation=1 Noam Chomsky: https://youtu.be/Iaz6JIxDh6Y?sub_confirmation=1 Sabine Hossenfelder: https://youtu.be/V6dMM2-X6nk?sub_c Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Any sufficiently advanced technology is instinctible for magic. But first I want to introduce you to my audience, who might not be familiar with you. And your name is Rose Schindler. And I'm convinced we are related because my grandfather's side of my family came from Ungvar, from Hungary. 20 kilometers from Serenia. Yes, right near Serenia. Between, Serenia was between Mumcotch and Hungvar, right. Serendia means middle.

Yes, and then we have close ties with you. I met you six years ago with Max, your beloved husband of Blessed Memory. And the two of you have been such deep inspiration to me, to my family, to my friends. I could not resist wanting to interview you and share your wisdom. And today is an appropriate day. Today is actually recording this on Thursday, July 30th, which is in the Hebrew calendar. It's the ninth of the month of Av, which is known as Tishabov, and it's a fast day. So I've been fasting.

I want to talk about that and talk about how people like me can relate to Tishabov through the experiences of someone like you and Max having been through a literal hell. And I want to, first, I want to take a step back and just introduce who you are, where you are, where you grew up. I've known you for long enough to be so impressed with you that you're perhaps, you know, the most courageous individual I've ever met. And I have tremendous respect for you. And I hope that when I am even, you know, a little bit older that I can have 1% of the energy that you have for a mission that if you like, God put you on earth to do, which is to tell the world as your father implored you again and again in your book that you wrote with Max called To Her Survived. It was a best-selling book, came out last year, and it's been featured around the

world, and you've done such tremendous work. But first, Rose, can you introduce yourself where you grew up and where you live now? And then we'll talk a little bit more about some of the topics in the book. Okay, well, I was born in Czechoslovakia, which is Russia, by the way, right now, or the Ukraine, actually, right between Ungvar and Munkhach, 20 kilometers on either side, okay? Anybody wanted to go from Munkash to war? They had to go through Seraena because that was the only road. I come to that village. There were about 600 Jewish people in our village, okay? I don't know if we call it a village or not, because there were a village, many villages, all over Europe, three, four hundred people, okay?

So we had a wonderful life. Of course, this was Austria-Hungary before the first World War. In the Second World War, it became Czechoslovakia. And of course, in 1938, Hitler came into power. So Hitler and so it became Hungary again because Hungary wasn't, you know, friends of Hitler. Okay. So before the war, everything was great.

father was a tailor he had a shop in the middle of town you've seen the book in the picture and as I said we had a really great life we never even dreamt of going to America or going here or there because we didn't need to do that I wish we would have family would have so but in 1938 everything went to hell when I read the book the book is written in sort of real time you're writing it as you remember remembered it and as Max remembered it. And so your husband, your late husband, a blessed memory, Max Schindler.

So first of all, one misconception to get out of the way, you're not related to the famous Oscar Schindler, although you did participate, obviously, in that. He was, he was true. We don't know, because they came from the same town. Oh, they did? Oh, interesting. Yes, and we believe, and Mike's was nine years old when they were pushed out of his town.

Okay? So we believe that they converted. Yes. Must have had some Jewish blood in him to do what he did. Okay? And you think about the perspective of the way the book starts. And it's heartbreaking because we know the outcome of the story. On one hand, we know that you survived.

I mean, that's the title of the book. But we know how many didn't survive. And that's, of course, what makes it so noteworthy. the way that you tell this true story from two different perspectives, a young boy, a young woman, all the way up through marriage and then eventually overcoming. But of course, the brutal middle part of the book is about your experience in Auschwitz-Burkenau, too, and the camps that you endured starting in 1944. But before we get there, I want to first take a step back.

When you were a little girl, the stories that you tell arose makes me want to live where you were living. It seems so idyllic. Your eight brothers and sisters, you were, you had 10 people in the family. Your father had a business. He worked with Jews, with non-Jews, and Max's family as well, but specifically yours, because I'm speaking with you today. You talk about the rituals, your daily life, the just ordinary nature of life in Sirenia, and how idyllic it seemed. Until one day, obviously, everything changed.

But when you look back on it, I look back in your life, and I see a vision for how I'd love to have raised my kids, at least in the very beginning. And the suddenness at which things change is so startling. Unbelievable. Can you talk about how can the human mind even process that? We live in America, the greatest country in the world, the greatest country, you know, for Jews, even, you know, aside from Israel. that's ever existed. And how is it possible that, you know, the world can go? As Max talks about, he said his father loved Germany so much that because it was a pinnacle in science, which is what I

study, in technology, in culture, how can the world go mad so quickly? How did you process that as a young person? Well, remember, I was like nine years old, 90, when it's all started in 1930s. And I was an ignorant child. You know, in those days, we were really not like today. Today, at 10, 12, 14-year-old, they're so grown up. It's not like how we grew up. We didn't know anything what was going on in the world. First of all, in 1939, our town was kind of closed off.

We could not go anywhere anymore. We didn't have any information what was going on in the world. Because if anybody had one or two radios in the whole town that was against the law, there was never any newspapers. And the only information they would give to us, if there was any, they used to use a drum from the middle of the town, in the farmer's market. They used the drum, and they would announce different things what's going on. But after 1939, 40, none of this was done.

And we had no idea what was going on. But I tell you, as Jews in those days, we were so religious, believed in God so strong. nobody believed that anything so horrible was ahead of us. You mentioned it many times how religious your father was. Absolutely, strictly orthodox. I mean, we had no idea what was going on, and we were strictly believing in God that everything will be fine.

We were taking like sheep to the slaughter. We were unbelievable. When you look back on that, you know, I've wrestled with this question as well. Again, today is Tishabab on the Jewish calendar, which means it's a fast day. It commemorates the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. And the temple in Jerusalem was said to be destroyed, not because of outside forces, the Romans or whatever,

who literally did the destruction, completed the destruction, but because of baseless hatred, that there was hatred between the Jews. And there were times throughout Jewish history, dating back as the description goes, back to the tale of the spies in the desert, you know, thousands of years ago with Moses that said, you know, evil things or told evil things about the nature of the land and the inhabitants, up until the destruction of the temple. But Jews have been targeted for so long. And I wonder, you know, if, if, I think Ely Weasel said, you know, God told the Jews they had a mission,

but he didn't say it was a suicide mission. Do you feel like this is a pattern in history that is destined to be repeated, or do you feel like, you know, after the Holocaust, there's no denying that there's been this awful oppression, not only of Jews, but of tremendous numbers of groups throughout history, do you feel like it's come to an end,

or could it happen again? Who knows what's ahead of us? Tell me, okay? I sure hope it never happens again. You think the world would have had a good experience what happened, and it's, I hope. it never happens again. There's no reason for that. I mean, we as Jews in Serenia, we had a

wonderful life before the war, okay? We had no problem, but we got along with everybody. Only Jewish people, mostly but business people, even though we had no higher education than middle school, okay? So if anybody wanted to get higher education, I'd have to go to either Munkacharumar or Budapest or whatever. So I just can't believe that the world allowed this to happen. Everybody was silent and they took us like sheep to the slaughter. Nobody tried to help us. And I should hope it never happens again. And we'll get to your mission towards the end of the conversation to bring the attention to the world, as your father said, you had to survive. And if you didn't, you know, the world would not know your story. And it was almost as if you had a divine mission.

And I feel like I wonder how many roses there could have been or Max's there could have been that didn't make it out, maybe only because of this horrible term we call luck, you know, that they just didn't have it. Or perhaps you had so many examples in the book, which is just so so gripping. I mean, I read it in a couple of hours. And I love learning about Max. And I just regret that I didn't have as much time with him as I do with you. And hopefully you'll live to 120 and we'll have many chances to have more conversations. As you know, one of my daughters, her middle name is Rose, in your honor, our little baby. A beautiful children.

Thank you, Rose. Thank you. But when I think about you, I think about this courage that you had, that you had this. I think of you very interestingly, because you have tremendous courage. You can be very serious, but you have a sense of humor. that is just so endearing. And I wonder, where did you get that? That spirit of courage, that spirit of, I am going to find a way to succeed, that you could succeed literally in the depths of hell,

that you stepped out of lines that would have led to your slaughter and how did you come, what caused you to have that courage? You don't speak as much about your mother in the book. Was it her? I mean, your father obviously was this towering intellect, this figure of religious pillar in your life. Where did you get the other side of you, the mischievous side, the side that took risks and had such great courage? I was a comboy, like that's going up.

Many times I would do things I shouldn't do and got spanked for it. But I was not ready to take anything that's ahead of me. I had to fight it. My father, you know, I saw my father in camp. The group was selected already, and they were there temporarily in Camp C in Auschwitz. And he met the next morning, okay, in Auschwitz. And he said, whatever you do, stay alive so you can tell the world what they're doing. At first, I didn't think it was real.

I woke up to this blinding light, and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV! Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows, and they were all free. The truth is our city. It's just so beautiful. On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 N-EX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials.

No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. And I stuck to that, and believe me, many times, I was taken, I was selected to go to the concentration, to the, excuse me, to the other. Because, you know, they brought us there to do work. Slave labor, okay, and we would have selections all the time. So the first three, four times of selections, they would put me in the gas chamberlain because I was skin and bone. I was never a heavy person.

And being in Auschwitz, like 10 days before we decided, hey, we need to get out of this God-forsaken place, okay? So we went for selection three, four times, and then each time they put us in the gas chamber. And they put me in the guest chamberlain and my two sisters sent to a factory to work. So you get a lot of knowledge when you're in a place like this. People tell you how to survive, okay?

You talk so much in the book about how, aside from the awful, you know, the German guards that were there, most of the people in charge, so to speak, were Jewish. And how did you relate to that? How could you process that? That these were your fellow Jews, and they were kind of orchestrating and playing a role. Obviously, they were forced at death at the payment. They had no choice.

So you didn't harbor any resent against the capos, because they are perceived, you know, there is literature about them as sort of, you know, mixed literature, shall we say. But you don't harbor any resentment or hatred towards. Oh, no, no. Listen, the man that came on the train to help him, her luggage. She was one of our survivors. And he comes and tells me, he says, how old are you? I said, I'm 14. He says, tell him you're 18. So a lot of people were saved that way, okay? And if you hadn't been told that, you would have said you're 14 and you wouldn't be here. You wouldn't be here.

No, I would have gone, they told me to go with them, you know, because they asked me my age and I said, I was 18. And my sister Helen said, oh, no, she's only 14. I said, oh, no, I'm 18. I don't know what made me say that. I had no idea what's going on. So remember this was the beginning of Auschwitz, too. Because we got there and what. So you get a lot of advice from your people that you're aware about these things. And it's almost the information denial, you know, the uncertainty,

the lack of knowledge about your fate and the rumors and the misinformation, even knowing what happened with the benefit of history that I'm, do know about what this tragic event was and really just awful evil event, series of events that happened to you and to Max. And then realizing that, you know, part of it was to strip you of your dignity and your humanity. And I don't, I wonder, you know, if it would even be possible if the Germans didn't do this, if they didn't shave your heads and, and give you no clothes and make you stand in pointless lines and assemble every morning for counting, that that was part of the strategy. It wasn't enough that you would die, that the Jews would be killed. They had to be

humiliated. They had to be tortured psychologically. And I wonder, you know, I've often heard, you know, these, you know, by people I love that the nature of humanity is good. I wonder, do you agree with that? I'm not saying that humans are inherently evil by any means, God forbid, but do you feel like humans have a natural inclination one way or another, or do you think it's just random chance. Well, I think it depends on circumstances. What you have to do and what you need to do, the Germans, they had more choice, okay, even though I'm sure all of them wouldn't have wanted to do what they were doing.

But they did what they had to do. And, of course, a lot of them did a lot more conditions, should also. So there were never any Germans that would help us. we never even expected that but anyway the thing is all we had to do is just believe in God and not give up hope that's another thing

every day we would say don't ever give up hope make remember tomorrow will be better what was the hope about Rose was it that God would rescue you was it that you could escape was it that Hitler would be killed hoping that the war would end

okay this is 1944 you know by the time we came to our It's probably my town, my village was liberated in September of 1944, just five months after we were taken away. So we were, well, we were, I was, we were four months in Auschwitz because every time they would come for people to go to factories to work, the first couple of months, we did it, but then I, every time they put me in the gas chamber line, so we decided not to do it, and we were hoping the war would end.

We would be liberated, okay? So, because, you know, every, every barrack had a thousand women. they come for two, three hundred women, you're not forced to go to line up and get, but of course, a lot of us tried. And believe me, a lot of people went into the gas chambers through that too, okay? Because people just, food was unbelievable. It was not livable, not even for animals, okay? And I just think, you know, as you say, I don't think I could handle what you went through, just being honest with you. And then even just you're surviving, it was more that I would say in addition to surviving,

you had this attitude that you looked at things wherever you could as a chance, as an opportunity for hope. In particular, like you make up the, you know, and I know that your stature physically is not as imposing as your kind of character, that you're such a larger-than-life figure. But in reality, you're about five feet tall or some. maybe 5-1, I would say. I don't think... I will say.

That's right. And yet you even say things in the book. Like, you were, because you were so small, they would give you a stool and that allowed you not to have to stand. Like, you're seeing the good fortune that you had at every turn. I wonder, is that because, you know, were you so young that you really didn't have an experience? I mean, this is five of the worst months of any human beings' life that they could possibly endure. And it wasn't like when you got to the work camp later, it was all fun in

games. It was still pretty awful. It just, the constant threat of being gasped wasn't quite as high. But when you went to the work camp after, when was that, was that in September? Yes, in fall. Uh-huh. You went to the work camp. We had no idea about dates, by the way. Right. Yeah, they denied you that information. He had nothing. All we had in our lives was a dress and clogs. And that's it, a dress, a piece of actually, okay? So we had no idea. But the thing is, you just have to have, you had to have hope. If you gave hope, you have, you're gone. What was the, you know, kind of the hardest time? Was it the first days you got there? Was it getting towards the end when it seemed like things?

When was it most challenging for you personally? Well, the best time was when we were liberated, of course. the first four months in Auschwitzburg and our camp see was horrible, horrible place. It's a transitional camp. You come and you get selected and nobody stays there like we did. The only people that stayed behind were the people that were not selected, like we. There were a lot of people did the same thing I do, okay? Because we're hoping the war would end. And of course, it took the world a long time to do that.

But we just never gave up hope. That's the thing. If you give up hope, you're lost. Okay. And were there people in the camps that were, that maintain their religiosity that's remained, you know, kind of. You couldn't remain your religion. I mean, we had, all we had to do is worry about surviving. In terms of their faith, did people keep their faith?

Hope. You got to have hope. Otherwise, you're lost. You give up your hope. People would put their hands on the electric fences. 20 seconds later they were dead. You can't imagine how hard they were. Do you think was Max raised by more religious parents or less religious parents?

No, no, no. They were like reform Jews here in the United States, okay? Even though they were not Orthodox, but they still went to temple. So, no, they were not Orthodox. They were very modern religious German Jews. And they were more, they view Germany as sort of a paradisiical place, at least until the awful events that Max describes and you described. Do you feel like people that were religious had a better probability to survive,

or do you feel like it was almost random that no matter how religious you were, it didn't affect your chances to survive? I don't think so. I don't know. We never talked about religion. We're very important. Of course, we're always hoping that tomorrow will be better. We're hoping we're going to get liberated, okay? Because if you don't hope, you're lost. And remember, anybody that has any problems, remember hoping that tomorrow is going to be better. That's how we survive. And do you think because the Holocaust is so difficult for a human being to relate to,

do you feel like that advice can even translate into today when we're dealing with COVID or something like that? Is it just so far removed from an experience that is relatable in any way to modern human beings that are living in a civilized society? Do you think that the lessons of the Holocaust are so unique to that form of unique evil? Or do you feel like there is lesson to be learned from the Holocaust that we could apply towards people that are going through horrible, a mental anguish, physical anguish today, obviously not the hands of human beings, but at the hands of this invisible, awful pandemic? I sure hope nobody ever has to go through what we went through. This is unbelievable what happened to us, okay? And the thing is, if we really have a terrible, terrible time, we need to fight back and not ever give up hope

and make sure that they just don't take you like sheep to the slaughter, okay? Stand up for your rights. We all have the same rights, whether you're Jewish or Catholic or whatever religion. We all have the same rights in this world, and we have to stand up for our rights, I don't know what else we could have done. We tried so hard to survive this. You have no idea. People died like ants.

I don't know if you've ever been to Auschwitz. I have not. No, I have not. I wanted to go. Okay. We've been there in 95, okay? And actually, we went there for the 7th anniversary of liberation of Auschwitz also. We were supposed to go.

I was supposed to go with my kids in January. Right. Before January, I came out with a pot, what do you call it? I had to have surgery. Yeah, right. You had a heart, a pacemaker, is that? Pacemaker put in. Just happened, New Year's, a couple of days after New Year's.

And you still wanted to go out to... Yes, for the trip, we canceled. I was afraid that I would ruin everybody's trip. because many, my kids went, okay? And they all ruined everybody's the trip, okay? Yeah. So we decided, I decided I'm not going. So then my daughter says she's not going either,

but two of my sons and some of my grandkids went. Hmm, wow. And on that day of the... A place to go to, by the way. No, no. But do you think it should be kept, it should be preserved, obviously? Absolutely.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, it should not forget what happened to us. It should never happen again. This is unbelievable. the world allowed us to happen. And you know, the United States, they did not do anything to help us either.

So many people had papers to come to America during the war, and they were all denied. My husband's family had papers to go to the United States. Didn't make it. And you talk about in the book, you know, the feeling of, you know, just relief of joy. Obviously, that was tempered by the realization that your father and,

and many of your siblings didn't survive, obviously. And I just wanted to go back to the liberation, the Commemoration Day and this year of the 75th anniversary. So actually that day, I was talking to another Jewish woman. Her name is Dr. Jessica Muir, and she was in space. She was floating around in space on the space station on the day that commemorates the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. And I just thought how amazing it is that, you know,

would have predicted that, you know, 75 years earlier or 76 years earlier, that such a thing could be possible to literally, you know, reach the highest heights. And I wonder, you know, if part of your mission now, obviously, is to tell the world. You realize that you had to do, your dad gave you this mission, your Tata, gave you a mission to do something. But even those that survived that had hope or kept it, they have not been. able to, for reasons that are totally understandable, maybe not wanting to deal with it. Yeah, it seems like you were able to deal with it as your son, I guess it was Steve. Was it Steve that had to do a report on Anne Frank's diary? He was in a play.

A play, right. So can you tell what happened next? How did that then encourage you to start sharing your story at that time? We never talked about the Holocaust. First of all, my kids were too young. We wanted to forget the past. We had better things to do. So when Steve was 13 years old, he was at Louis, junior high, and he was in the Ant Frank play.

He played the part of Peter. The teacher found out that his parents are Holocaust survivors. That's when I started speaking. Before, I had not in, I did not have any imagination about talking about the past, because it was not a pleasant thing for us. Okay. So Lewis Jr. High was the first place where I spoke. So, and after that, I started speaking and I've been speaking ever since. And Steve is 61 years old.

Wow. And it's important for us to tell the world what happened so it shouldn't happen again, okay? Yeah, you say in the book, after my presentation to Steve's class, the children started to write compassionate letters to me. They touched me to my core. I realize that innocent children are helping to mend my heart with kindness. They also speak of a desire to change the world to prevent problems that could lead to something as horrific as the Holocaust and a need to work together.

If children can learn these powerful lessons from my experiences, they can change the world. And you say how that thing shifted in you. And can you talk about, do you know how many students you've spoken to in the past several? Thousands. You know, it's really a funny thing. This week, since we're all home

and we have so many things in the homes that we never touched for years and years. I went in one of my closets full closet is full of letters from the children with schools so a couple of days ago I took all these letters and all these bags and I

found a and I got a big box and I put all that and put it in the garage in this closet for other things so oh no I have oh my God I've been speaking for close to 50 years okay to schools the week before this disease came out, I spoke five times a week, sometimes even on weekends

and sometimes even in the evenings to women's organizations. And, you know, so. Yeah, that's how we met. We met at a small gathering, just a private kind of dessert gathering in La Jolla, as I said, about five or six years ago when Max was here. And I remember, you know, just not wanting it to end and just here. hearing this conversation, then thinking back, you know, I just had this incredible desire. I wanted to do something. I want to do something. I didn't know what I could do. And I'd hope that

you'd write a book, but I didn't know that you were going to write a book. And how did this idea come to you and Max? Obviously, you know, he, the book is written from both of your perspectives. So it's kind of this, it's kind of this unique description. I haven't read any book like this where there's two perspectives, but it's unfolding in real time and you feel the emotions that you felt, it's really quite an amazing accomplishment. How did the idea to write a book,

which I am so grateful that you did write, how did that come to you? It's been on my mind for many years, okay? But Max never wanted to do it. It's not his idea, okay? Even, I mean, when we were speaking at schools, Max was speaking too, but he always said,

Rose, I don't want to do what you do. You do what you want, but occasionally he did speak at schools also. And he wasn't in for stuff like, you know, we're all into different things. So, I mean, it's been on my mind for many years. And then finally after Max passed, actually one day, while I'm speaking at a school, one of the people that came, one of the mothers of the children came to listen to me speak. she's the one who wrote my book she never wrote the book before

wow okay wow and after Max passed away as I said I did have on my mind to someday write a book after Max passed away this lady came to call me she says Rose

let's write the book and she came to my house and we wrote the book it took about six months to get it all done and there it is No, it's an incredible... The world needs to know what happened to us, even though there's many other people who wrote books too.

No, but this is a unique book because of the fact that it's the two of you and that you weave together this true story from two different vantage points in that the world, you know, maybe I couldn't relate to a little girl's experience, but I can relate to a little boy's experience or whatever. And so in that sense, I don't think there's any book comparable to it. and the photographs in it, you know, the way I remember Max, as just this joyous man. And by the way, this past week would have been your anniversary.

Is that right? On the 27th. 27th. It could have been 70s anniversary of our marriage. Oh, wow. Yeah. Let me tell you, it's so awful to be alone. I was never alone because I met Max in the hostel when I was 16 years old.

So he's the only man in my life. And he's such an amazing individual. I remember hearing from him when we met many years ago that he always had this desire for education, for technology. And he was really self-made. I mean, you guys came to America with, what, $20? You got $20 when you arrived. And then you immediately went to work until one day you collapsed and fainted on the floor, I think, of a subway when you were pregnant. with Roxanne.

And then he had, you know, he ended up coming to California. And just to hear the way that he describes the pride that he felt, that he could learn a trade, that he could learn a skill coming from nothing, from a boy who had zero potential and could have died many times. Three years of education, but four years of education. And you diminish your education, but Rose, you speak, what, five or, you spoke five or six different languages? I don't know.

I'm down to, I still speak a Hungarian. I speak Yiddish, okay, Hungarian. You couldn't sell me in Russian, go to Czechoslovakian. But still, it takes a special brain to do that and also to run a business as you ran a business for many years in San Diego. But just to see Max and that he would learn a trade, he would learn computers, he did insurance,

he did all sorts of different trades, and he would do it at night. He wanted to be, he said in the book, and I really welled up with pride and emotion, for him, he didn't want a handout. He didn't, he wanted to be independent, even if that meant, you know, paying, you know, $20 a month for an apartment, but he was going to earn it and he was going to support his bride in America.

And that they says anything was possible in America. Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Here's a little tune to help you remember. Same drive, different day. Don't you wish you were getting away pack your bags and come on through. Ohio, Alaska, we're up there too. Comfort in, it's calling your name. Save on the stay.

Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Well, I hope you like my little song, book direct at sourcehiltails.com. All you have to have is willing to do it. Okay. Well, I worked in the garment industry. Mm-hmm. New York. Mm-hmm.

Very well. Okay, so, of course, after five years, decided Max came to San Diego to visit one of his friends. You know, all the boys had to report to the military. Yeah. It's here in San Diego, Henry. So he came to San Diego for a three-day weekend, Christmas Eve, 1955. Was it 55?

I think so. He never came back to New York. He calls me two days later, his rose, pick up. And we already had a daughter in New York. Yeah. And we're moving to California. Yeah. I've got so fast.

And I just went along, you know. Yeah. And you made a wonderful life here, and you raised your children here. And I think, you know, just the simple things that you couldn't have imagined in the depths of despair in the pits of evil in Auschwitz and Theresnstadt. And I wonder, you know, could I just feel the emotion, the pride that he, When he talks about buying his first car, okay, it was a used forward, but he had pride. You never would have predicted that. You never would have predicted the things that you've seen and done and accomplished.

And I wonder if God didn't put you here for that mission that the two of you should meet. Who knows? Who knows? Yeah. I mean, things are not like they were in Europe with the religion, okay? because I was so disappointed what happened to us. I still ask questions, where was God when this was going on?

Okay? To lose the complete family. We must have had probably, I would say at least 150 to 200 people in our family with my mother's sisters and brothers, my father's cousins, aunts, grandparents. But maybe a dozen of us came back after the board.

When you found... I have a lot of questions to go. I'm sure you do, Rose, and it's totally natural. And I have questions, too, even not having gone through what you went through and Max went through. And, you know, we can't understand it. And I dislike it when people say, oh, the reason for this was so that Israel could be found. I reject that. I don't, I don't.

I do. I reject that too. I don't think that's a good reason, okay? I see that there are special human beings that are created. And just as you can ask, you know, where was God when these awful things happened and evil things happened? They were committed by human beings. And you can say that, you know, COVID wasn't created by a human being. It's a natural process.

Let's ignore that for a second. But just think that sometimes when I meet somebody like you or I meet my new baby for the first time. And I think how can you explain it as an atheist, you know, the miracles that there are in life that you did. Yeah. Absolutely. Everything is a miracle. A miracle that we're all still here.

But anyway, we needed a miracle, but we didn't have it and we needed it. Yeah. I want to just conclude by discussing the mission that you're on now. I want to read a couple of sentences from the final chapter, the epilogue. So Rosen Max continued to be members of the 45 Aid Society. This group maintained relationships with European survivors. So there were significant numbers. How many San Diego were Holocaust survivors back when you were here?

Yeah, quite a big group. Really? Really? In the 56. Wow. We had the New Life Club. It started in 1949 because some boys ended in San Diego because they were in the military. Max was not in the military because he was a four-up,

because he had diseases in the camp. So we started the club in 1949 with a few people, and little by little people were coming. We had over 100 members. Wow. Survivor members, okay? Today the club is still existing. And of course, a lot of them are,

we just have maybe 20, 25 at a meeting, but most of those are people that left, the war before they left Europe before the war. So they still considered survivors. But there's not too many real survivors like me left in Syria anymore. I was 14 when they were taken away, okay? So, um, so. Max told me when, uh, a few years ago that he had a friend who had survived the camps

with him and that he was drafted and served in Korea. Is that true? I guess. I'm not sure about Korea, but he was in the military. I think that, and then he almost died in Korea. And the thing, I mean, I can't even envision that. Imagine surviving hell on earth and then coming to America and thinking your life is completely changed, obviously,

and then being drafted to go and fight. Thank God he survived. But it's just an unbelievable story. And I know many of the survivors did want to serve and repay America. Some of them also were killed. I mean, actually, this is after the war, so there was no war when they went into the military. But some probably may have had some diseases maybe that they knew about it, and some of them may have died.

But actually, even if they didn't go into the military, some of us, some survivors that not live as long as well. I am still around at 90. It's a miracle that I'm still around. You are, yeah. I would live that long. I know, especially with everything that you described. I thought my husband was with me for 67 years. Wow.

And he was such an amazing inspiration for me just to see, I mean, if you met Max, if you meet Rose to my listener, you'll know soon what she is about, that what she has gone through, what she has recovered from, what she has accomplished and just dominated life and just, you know, life and just, sucks out the marrow of, but Max was a little bit more introverted. Max was reserved. But being in the presence of him was like being with a very quiet sort of saintly person and that he was, he was so, he had a sense of calm about him that was very unusual. I mean, I love talking to you. You and I are family members, I'm sure. And so we just relate to each other. But Max was this,

and I wonder if it was this German kind of upbringing, but he was very stoic in a sense. He was a very smart man. Yes, he was. Two and a half years of education in schools. If he would have, if not for the war, he would have been something very special. Yeah.

On a long way, okay? But he was not a speaker like me. No. He would enjoy speaking like I speak to everybody. I go outside out of my house and I start talking to all the neighbors. So, especially in this time, we're all outside walking, we've never done. Unbelievable.

I know. Over 50 years now. And last night I went out for a walk and I happened to take two books with me. Okay? And by the time I was done, I left without the books. I mean, it's amazing. We start talking to each other and the whole world is getting a lot of finding. Yeah.

And I think about the, as you talk about in the book, the other projects you're involved with, the butterfly project, which is to... That's how we started. Cheryl Price. I met Cheryl Price when she was working on that. Oh, wow. Oh. I know her from the beginning. She's a really nice lady.

And nowadays, you've obviously spoken to thousands of people. You participated in the USC Shoah Foundation Institute with Steven Spielberg, who does. documented the testimonials of the Holocaust and that the project obviously culminated or is related to Schindler's List, the film. In the other awards that you've received are Jewish Heritage Month Local Heroes Award from KPBS. Rose was named one of the cool women of 2015 by the San Diego Girl Scouts, as well as a woman of valor during the 24th annual Lipinski Jewish Arts Festival in San Diego in 2017. Two years ago, you were awarded an honorary high school diploma from a La Jolla country day school and an honorary MBA. Oh, so maybe you can help me with my tax problem. I'm an educated of bad people, personal.

You are. Well, yes, not all educations come with such very impressive curriculum vitae. And the senior class unanimously voted to award Rose the certificate after hearing her speak at their school. on both days and with a big smile she told the reporters this is the best day of my life well um rose i do want to thank you i'm gonna i'll end the podcast for us and then i want to uh i'll call you back and then i want you to say hi to little uh little miriam rose my daughter who's uh who's named after you unless she wants to say hi to you so uh rose i want to thank you so much uh and my audience sorry this is you know a little bit different from the scientists the engineers the i don't have you been doing

this. I've been doing this for almost two years maybe, but you're the, you're just such a, you're the most special guest I've had. I didn't do that you did this. Well, we've been on a couple of other podcasts, by the way. I don't know if you know that. Yes, I do. I know. You were on a very, very well-known one with a local San Diego named Jaka Willink. And that has seen over a quarter million views. So I'm going to put that in the link and the notes for people that are listening to see Rose, who's this five-foot one-inch domino. a mighty, you know, indomitable spirit next to Jaka Willing, because he's like six feet and huge muscle man, Navy SEAL. I see.

Commander, a very nice guy, very brilliant guy too. So I'll put a link to that. And Rose, I just want to thank you. I think about you all the time. Our family loves you. And we're so glad that you are. I love you guys. I love our children.

They're so cute. They love you. They really worship you. And I know that we'll be together soon. I want everybody to be healthy. of way. Yes, she is too. So I want to thank you so much, Rose, and thanks to your children for setting this up. And I hope we can see each other soon, one way or another. Right, right. Thank you for doing this, Brian. Thank you, Rose. You're a true channel. Stay well. Stay healthy. I will.

Thanks. You heard it here. Don't ignore. Put your mask and I walk out and I forget put my mask I don't get a mask. Listen to Rose. She knows what she's talking about. Thank you, Rose. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguble for magic. If you enjoyed this episode of Into the Impossible, please subscribe, comment, share, rate, and review.

For a chance to win a free copy of our most recent guest's newest book, send a screenshot of your review to info at Imagine, uscSD.edu. We appreciate hearing from you and are always open to your suggestions for future episodes. For more information, go to imagination.ucsd.edu. Find us on Twitter at ImagineUCSD. Watch us on YouTube, listen on iTunes. Into the Impossible is a production of the Arthur C. Clark Center for Human Imagination

in the Division of Physical Sciences at the University of California. San Diego. Eric Viri, director, Brian Keating, co-director, Patrick Coleman, Associate Director, produced by Stuart Valco.