Into the Impossible With Brian Keating - James Jordan: The Speed of Life (#126)

Starting point is 00:00:01 Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishing from magic. James Jordan, welcome back again to the Into the Impossible podcast. We are now live. You're joining us from Santa Monica. You've been a friend of the show and a friend to me. And thank you so much for joining us. We're here to talk about your book, The Speed of Life, but not that much. Because the thing I always hate is when I would be interviewed by a,

Starting point is 00:00:31 podcaster who didn't read the book and didn't care about the book, but wanted to save his listeners the expense and time of reading the book so they would say to me, tell us what's in your book, tell us what the reader will learn and what your conclusion is, et cetera, et cetera. I don't want to talk about that, but I do want to say that this book has a subtitle, an illustrated novel, which is quite lovely. I actually bought the Kindle book. I have the hard copies, courtesy of you, but I want to look at some of the illustrations in the book. after we do the following thing, which is something that authors are told and readers are told never to do, which is to judge a book by its cover. I want to ask you, how did you come up with

Starting point is 00:01:13 the cover illustration and the title of this book? This cover took a long time to develop. There's a character named Andrew, who is a very young shaman, seminal of mixed race. and in this picture he's paddling his canoe up the Lockharty River towards what I hope would be a supernova, a connection between the cosmic and the earth. I had an original illustrator who did. Anyway, not as good to cover as this one. Eric Savage, my current illustrator, this is his. second version of the cover. But every illustration on the cover is inspired by a scene in the and this particular scene in section seven and Andrew has been at Jupiter and he's able to see the

Starting point is 00:02:16 past through a reflection from the sun of event on earth that has come back through a worm and he wants to get back to earth to warn people who are being dangerous. And so it is sort of a mind-bending story that goes to the depths of outer space and to the heart of the Everglades, to the criminal justice system, to interracial relations, to some very startling kind of gripping, almost like a film. It's very theatrical. And this is your first book, right? I mean, this is your first book of fiction or nonfiction, right? This is my first novel. So Kip Thorne was James's science advisor. He read the passages related to astrophysics on several occasions. As he revised and rewrote, he wrote, he read the entire manuscript when he thought it was complete, provided him with extensive notes and insightful advice. It's pretty amazing. And also T.C. Boyle read chapters as his writing progress provided him with invaluable editorial and structural suggestions. He read the manuscript in its entirety. It was complete.

Starting point is 00:03:26 and he is, of course, a distinguished professor of English emeritus at the University of Southern California, not the University of California where I am, but that great school to the north in Los Angeles. And then the late Victor Wolfenstein, who is a professor of political science and political theory. Again, these are really amazing contributors to this book. And I think his wide-ranging intellect,

Starting point is 00:03:56 shines through here. I wonder, how did you get connected to Kip Thorne and Leonard Malad now? Well, I knew Leonard through Kipp, and that's at Pitch House. And you've been in Los Angeles for a long time, and you also knew T.C. Boyle, right? That's the other encomium on the back. From the courtroom to the swamp primeval to the underpinnings of the universe, James Jordan takes us on a wild ride. A hugely ambitious and thoroughly enjoyable triumph of a first novel. All I can say is Bravo. And of course, he is a renowned author and

Starting point is 00:04:33 his owner. How did you get to know Professor Boyle? I went to grad school and created. So I want to talk about some of the, as I said, some of the illustrations in this book. It's an illustrated novel. And you've kindly put me in touch with Eric, who did some of the art for the, for this video. Of the artwork that's in here, some of it is cultural, I would say. Some of it is astrophysical. How did you determine kind of the balance between how technical this was going to get? It's not a physics book, and your audience is fiction readers. It's not nonfiction science readers. How did you find the balance between the hero's journey of the story? I really see it as a journey, and maybe it'll continue in future books. But how do you strike the balance between the technical and the sublime?

Starting point is 00:05:20 There was no plan at the outset to create a balance. This book, like Atlas, like Atlas short, but that's not it. Cloud Atlas, it has a similar structure to Cloud Atlas, and that each section of the book has chapters that come together at the very end but don't necessarily flow temporarily one to the other. And so I felt illustrations would help the reader understand that she was moving into a whole new realm

Starting point is 00:05:58 as she moved from section to section. Each illustration is taken from a scene in one of the chapters in each part of the book, each other, two the seven parts. And Eric, I conceived of what they should look like. I went through a few illustrators, but Eric, by far the best, And we really click. Yeah, there's some of my favorite shown here. And a reminder, you can find James on his website, which I have linked underneath his visage.

Starting point is 00:06:26 We can also find him on Twitter at James Victor George, J.R.D, not the full name because Twitter won't allow it. And the main thing, you know, I'm an astrophysicist. I want to talk about some of the astrophysical aspects of the book. I think it is quite fascinating that you blend them together. for me, it's so daunting to think about writing a fiction book. It's almost more daunting than a nonfiction book. Because a nonfiction book, you can rely on facts and your historical recollection, as I did in losing the Nobel Prize,

Starting point is 00:07:00 I actually lived these events. But nobody's lived these events. I mean, at least I hope not. Some of them are pretty graphic, as you know. And I just wonder, you know, kind of advice to people like me who would like to eventually write a work of fiction, have some nascent ideas, but nowhere near the level of concreteness that my nonfiction book had. How do you advise somebody like me who's not an English major by any means, as you probably can tell?

Starting point is 00:07:30 How do you advise someone like me to pursue a dream of writing the great American novel? The second grade in American novel, after this one, of course. After Gets me, Conner. First, just to go back, there's an overriding theme in this book, which is the question, what is real? And I don't think you can address what is real just by looking at the surface of the planet Earth. And I think that that's important.

Starting point is 00:07:57 How would I advise you? Well, you're a terrific writer. I have read losing the Nobel Prize twice, and I've listened to it once. And so I wouldn't worry about the writing. Everybody has a different style when it comes to fiction. Some people want to

Starting point is 00:08:16 outline. Some people like T.C. Boyle, outline would be anathema. John Irving would say, if you don't know what the last chapter is about your loss, then T.C. Boyle would say the opposite. So would Flannery O'Connor. If you have a story in mind, then you begin with that.

Starting point is 00:08:39 And you have to write every day. You have to set aside some time. And like I said, in your case, I wouldn't worry about the prose. It's just very evocative. Your writing is beautiful and evocative. So I would encourage you to write something that's science fiction. From the little science fiction I have read, some of it is disappointing. Some of the big winning books are disappointing. Orsula Le Guin's, I'm trying to think of the name of it, it'll come to me in a minute. Her science is terrible. She writes science fiction and she makes up things and they happen in outer space,

Starting point is 00:09:20 but they could just as well or in other planets. But she hasn't really described correctly what's going on. She botches Einstein's theories. Then you have, well, my mind is losing it at the moment. who wrote Martin, Andy Weir. Andy Weir. He's a terrific writer. And one of the virtues of his book is that everything in it could possibly happen.

Starting point is 00:09:51 But it's not a really terribly interesting story. I mean, he gets left there and then they go back and get him and they bring him back to Earth where he's. Ursula Le Guin writes very interesting stories with complex human and political problems. in them. This book that just won the Hugo Award the three body problem, the science in that is just, they don't conform to anything that we understand about the laws of physics. You know, people deflate themselves and all the water goes out of them and then they re-inflate themselves. It's an interesting idea, a planet trying to revolve around three suns that are orbiting each other. But the science is, you know, if you care about the science being somewhat true to life, then it'll lose you to that extent.

Starting point is 00:10:46 Yeah. Yeah, we're hoping to have Andy Weir on the podcast in a few months. He's a, he is not an alum of UCSD. He went to UCSD like Kim Stanley Robinson, like David Brin, like the Benford brothers, vast numbers of amazing science fiction. writers call UCSD their alma mater, but not him. He didn't graduate. So maybe that's why the gaps there are that you found. But he has another book coming out called Project Hail Mary, and I'm scheduled to hopefully talk to him in May. I'll let you know when that comes out. Reminder, we're talking to James Victor Jordan today. Please follow him on Twitter.

Starting point is 00:11:23 Please go to his website. His website is really magnificent. I don't know who does the website, Jim, but it's such a fun website to play around with. I get lost in it when I do it. As I with your writing. Please follow him. You'll find some video trailers for the book, which are filled with the illustrations, which are incredible works of art. It's not just a work of literature. It's a work of art as well. And you'll find these blurbs, these Encomia from Kip Thorne, from T.C. Boyle, from some of the most renowned authors in history. And you can also check out and leave a review of it on Amazon, Goodreads, and elsewhere. And you'll find that it has just almost uncountable numbers,

Starting point is 00:12:06 constellations of five-star reviews. So congratulations on this. I want to know, do you mention a little bit of your prescription for working on a book, daily habits, writing every day. I wonder, you know, if you found the process addictive or if you want to branch out, I know you have tentative plans,

Starting point is 00:12:25 I don't know if you want to talk about it for a follow-up involving perhaps some of the characters. Again, I don't like to get into too much detail because it's much easier to give away, you know, kind of the spoil the book for people. And I want them to have the savoring experience of it. But can you talk about future plans and whether or not you find the process addictive? For the moments that matter, choose Kuraad Naturals. Infused with aloeuvre and vitamin E, Kiraad Natural's bandages protect your unexpected scrapes, cuts, and burns,

Starting point is 00:12:56 while also moisturizing your skin. Find deeper relief with natural ingredients you can trust to start the healing. When life surprises call for the best, choose Kyrad, a deeper level of care. Shop the full collection on Amazon or visit curad.com to learn more. When I'm in it, it's addictive. I have to do it all the time because I have ADD. If I'm into something 100%, and if I get out of it, I spend some days doing other things, And then it's sort of like going to the gym or something like that.

Starting point is 00:13:31 I can easily be distracted and have to get back into it. So I think every successful writer that you will talk to, either in terms of there being a bestseller or they're having a lot of literary awards, we'll tell you it's just something you have to do every day. I would imagine losing the Nobel Prize. You thought about it every day, but you probably wrote a little bit, I'm guessing. Yeah, I try.

Starting point is 00:13:58 tried to. Yeah, it was hard because we were dealing, I mean, hard in a good way. We had little kids running around and there's still some little kids running around, which is always fun. But yeah, carving at the time, making it a part of your profession, even though it isn't my profession, necessarily, my job is to build astronomical telescopes and take them to the world's extremes. But for me, the kind of writing and even the podcast has become a chance, as I think I said to you, months ago, you know, we had a delay it a couple times because of COVID and my schedule. And I said, you know, what I like about the podcast is that in contradistinction to my day job, where I might have to talk to somebody as I do in 16 minutes from now, I have to talk to some contractor about

Starting point is 00:14:42 building a roadway at 17,000 feet in the Atacama Desert of Chile, that's someone I have to talk to. But when I get to chat with you, it's someone I want to talk to. And the other people that I've gotten to to know, and you start to change your identity when you become a writer, when you produce something. And so I encourage everybody necessarily to write a book. I don't think everyone should publish a book. I think you should only write a book when it can't not be written in a sense. And I feel like the themes in this book I want to explore next, because they're not, it's very difficult to define it. And in fact, I was worried at first, can I understand this book? not because of intelligence, but because it's such a broad sweeping scope of the book,

Starting point is 00:15:27 ranging from, as they say, murder mystery to violent crime, to the criminal justice system, to like Native Americans, to just incredible breadth, and then throw an astrophysics on top of it. But because it has this core of, you know, a crime, true crime story or whatever, a fictional crime story, I want to talk about that. As you know, I've talked a lot about free will, determinism, reality, consciousness on this podcast. I want to ask you, where do you think that this comes into play in the criminal justice system? Are you a believer in determinism? Are you believer in free will? Where do you fall on that spectrum? Well, I'm a believer in free will. I know Stephen Hawking

Starting point is 00:16:10 said free will is an illusion. If you're not, I'm a lawyer. If you're not a believer in free will, then how do you ethically punish a criminal? Because the crime was, they had no choice. It was going to be, and probably there's, most people believe some, there's some mixture in between. You don't really have, ex-essentialists will say everybody has freedom, even if you're in a prison cell or in a concentration camp or a person of war camp, you've got the freedom of your thoughts.

Starting point is 00:16:43 And I think that is not true, harsh. If you don't if you have hunger if you have pain you don't have the type of freedom that we usually believe so there anatomically maybe we're determined we'll be hungry if we don't eat consciously we can think of anything we want we have free will although again if you're hungry you're not going to be thinking about much more than getting that next meal killing the beast bringing in home for the family to to feed them it's a mixture I do address free will and determinism extensively in the book. Right.

Starting point is 00:17:22 And so, you know, I wonder, as I'm reading it, you know, because you portray it in a balanced way, how you know, what you really believe. And so it's good to have that. The characters, you know, and the explication of it are different, of course. But I've had, in fact, with your friend who you introduced me to Leonard Miladnow, who is Stephen Hawking's, you know, perhaps most prolific collaborator. Breeder and in fact wrote, you know, some of the final books that Stephen ever wrote, including the grand design. He had, what's that? He wrote the first ones, too. He wrote the first ones, too, a brief history of time, but he didn't get co-author credit. But he was in on everyone. I didn't know. I didn't know that Leonard wrote the first, a brief history of time. I thought he

Starting point is 00:18:11 wrote the second one, a briefer history of time. I'll have to ask him about that. Yeah, ask him. He didn't write it. He co-wrote it. And apparently all the way to the end, as I gave the anecdote earlier, Stephen had the final say. Yeah. And, you know, Stephen, of course, didn't necessarily believe in it. But as Roger Penrose, who's been a four-time guest in my show, has said about Stephen, it didn't matter what you thought you always could find Stephen agreeing with you,

Starting point is 00:18:38 because he changed his mind so often. And the former, you quote, and you got extensive help from the pre-refer, Richard Feynman Professor of Physics at Caltech, namely Kip Thorne. I spoke recently to the current holder of that chair who is known than John Preskill, who's an amazing intellect. And we talked a lot about the bets that he had with Stephen. I remember when they made these bets. And then, you know, Stephen would capitulate and so forth. But Leonard and I had a very interesting and really quite maybe agitated. It might not be the right word. But we had a very intense conversation with Frank Wilczek, which you can find, and Deepak Chopra. So is Deepak Chopra, me, Frank Wilchek, and

Starting point is 00:19:20 Leonard now in conversation. And some of them, they were going at it, Frank and Leonard. I found it very interesting because Leonard is a, essentially, as I can understand it, a proponent of, you know, super determinism, that everything is determined in the wave function of the Big Bang. And if we, we just can't understand it, but if we could. And then on the other side, Deepak is saying, well, there's quantum, you know, magic that you know and so we were all kind of like just criticizing depok who's a good friend by the way but you know don't get too woo-woo on us but this notion of of like you know determinism being you know everything the one thing i will get from leonard and that comes through in your book as well is that yeah there is how can you blame somebody how can you have a justice system and it was actually

Starting point is 00:20:06 will check the Nobel laureate the quantum chromodynamics uh explicator he was saying that no because then how could you punish people if everything is determined? And it was Leonard, Maladnau, your friend of mine, saying, no, it's everything's determined. I find it kind of surprising. I would have thought the other way around. But in terms of determinism, nowadays we hear all sorts of things related to consciousness. And there's touched upon in the book as well, how, you know, awareness and blame and so forth. There's this whole notion now of, you know, kind of super consciousness or panpsychism. What do you make of that? That everything is conscious and everything has at its root layer of reality a perception that's unique to the object itself.

Starting point is 00:20:51 Where do you fall in that spectrum? Personally, that's not my perspective at all. In the book, there are characters who believe that everything is alive, stones, trees, and that would be Deepak's belief also. and I know that from having read The War of the World Views. Henry James said the author should not have a point of view that comes across in the book, but the characters should, even if the author is the narrator, even if there's a first person narrator. And so I tried to do that in this book. So do I believe in shamanism that there's a non-ordinary reality where shaman's been travel with,

Starting point is 00:21:36 their power animals. Well, personally, I think I'm too much of an empiricist. But there is evidence, there is inferential evidence, that they do this, because over centuries, shaman's practiced virtually the same type of medicine, and they were separated by continents and geographical distances. they were so far they could not have possibly have communicated. And some went into this state using drugs, like in Peru, and some did it doing chants and rattles.

Starting point is 00:22:15 They got into this state. The characters in my book don't use drugs to go into a state of non-ordinary reality. But how do you explain the fact that they were doing similar things and having similar beliefs and describing similar things? over the centuries. So it's an inference, but I guess I'm too much of an empiricist. But in the book, I have characters who believe that and they endeavor to express it. Yeah. And I'm always wondering, you know, is this the author, as you say, because a good author won't reveal if it's his or her perspective. Along those lines, you know, I felt you got into very fraught territory that could

Starting point is 00:22:59 have been very risky. You're a presumably Caucasian male who's in a heterosexual relationship that you thank your wife, you acknowledge your wife's loving, you know, tenderness and help. And you're a lawyer who's lived for a long time as I gather in Santa Monica, California. And here you are writing, you know, a book that takes place a large part from the perspective of, of a, you know, mixed race, Native American, maybe, you know, and kind of consult in consultation with the criminal justice system, he encounters African. How did you, you know, and there's, you know, scenes written from female perspectives, obviously.

Starting point is 00:23:36 Like, what gave you the, you know, the chutzpah, the courage to do that? And, and especially in a first work, because I would be kind of scared to broach some of those aspects of this novel. There are writers who claim that if you're not Native American, you have no right to write from the American point of view. Louise Erdick, maybe. T.C. Boyle, however, writes his book, World's End, has a name I reckon who's a main character. If you're a writer, you should be able to write from a woman's point of view,

Starting point is 00:24:10 T.C. Bowles, written a number of books from women's perspective. You're an artist. And as an artist, you should be able to inhabit different thought patterns, different feelings, different bodies, even. And so I had people criticize me and say, well, you'll, you know, you'll never get. a following, nobody will ever read this book because you're not seven whole half black and half shaman and half white. Right. I grew up in Florida.

Starting point is 00:24:37 The people I wanted, I needed, I felt an oppressed people, a people to whom the criminal justice system had been unfair. And that's, my characters just grew that way. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and the metaphor of the Everglades and kind of the primeval and the canoes as time transporters and places that go through time and space. I found it very gripping and I'm not alone. And I do want to maybe close this section before we get to.

Starting point is 00:25:04 As you know, I'm very pressed for time. I always thought, James, that astronomers would spend our times on telescopes. But actually, we're much more often on telecons than telescopes, unfortunately. So I do have a couple of questions that will get to that I ask all my guests, who honor me by coming on the show. But before we get there, I really do want to kind of close. with one big picture question that kind of grew out of it and a conversation I had with Lawrence Tribe, who's an attorney, constitutional law professor at Harvard, was Barack Obama's law professor.

Starting point is 00:25:38 And as you know, I've been thinking a lot about artificial intelligence and how we can have applications and implications for physics. I'm in the process now turning Galileo's written words into audio form with Carlo Rovelli and others, including Jim Gates and many other eminent physicist. Frank Wilcheck has agreed to play a part in it. And my next step after that is to take the words and the audio and put it into an AI that I'm calling Gallo AIO and kind of converse with him. And I started to think about this with regard to Lawrence Tribe and the Constitution. And you as an attorney, I want to ask, are there implications for artificial intelligence in

Starting point is 00:26:15 the criminal justice system, which is featured very prominently in the speed of life? Could we get to an artificial, you know, Supreme Court? Could we get into a situation where we have advanced capabilities from a general artificial intelligence that allow us to make perfect decisions in terms of criminal justice? In terms of decisions of consciousness, there's something right or wrong, I hope not, even given the current constitution of the philosophies on the court. certainly a lot of things can be done automatically with artificial intelligence, if you will. Jurors can be screened and ruled out on a perfectly objective basis. So it could be streamlined. A lot of the court system is going electronic now.

Starting point is 00:27:08 I hope not. And maybe that's just my fear. Maybe I'm wrong about that. So I'm going to take some questions from the audience. I do see Eric is in the audience. Eric Savage, who's the illustrator. I do love the shoe illustration. That was one of my favorite ones.

Starting point is 00:27:25 Eric is commenting on here. Other people are talking about the ability to make split-second judgments may not be good in criminal justice. In other words, the jury process, which, again, features prominently here, is a deliberative one, and it can take weeks or months even to reach consensus. So if we had an instantaneous, general artificial intelligence, maybe we'd lose some of that in the criminal justice system. James, I always ask my guess the following questions,

Starting point is 00:27:54 some of which will touch upon some of the characters we've already mentioned. The next question I have relates to what I call the monolith, and you might know from Arthur C. Clark's 2001, a space odyssey that these aliens leave these monoliths throughout the solar system for human beings to find. And one of the things they find are these monoliths in the plains of Africa, and they don't know what to do with it. So they start freaking out, hitting with a bone and whatnot.

Starting point is 00:28:21 But I want to ask you, if you had access to a million or billion-year-lasting time capsule, like these monoliths might be, what piece of knowledge would you put in it? And to inspire you, I'll quote from Richard Feynman. Feynman said, if in some cataclysm, all of scientific knowledge were to be destroyed, then only one sentence passed on to the next generation of creatures, what statement would convey the most information about what we know. and he said everything is made of atoms. What would you put in that really demonstrates what we've learned as human beings

Starting point is 00:28:52 or comprises the knowledge that humanity has accrued during our 4 billion years of evolution? Don't judge others by differences, especially superficial differences, between them and yourselves. Hedging, skin color, and that would be hard for me. Right. that is a great base of wisdom to convey. And the last piece of wisdom conveyed today will go back in time. Now I'm going to ask you advice to your former self before I have to break off in time and attend to another telecon, which you can tell how much I look forward to these telecoms.

Starting point is 00:29:32 But it's the price you pay to be a scientist these days. Anyway, Arthur C. Clark, who is the namesake of the Arthur C. Clark Center for Human Imagination here at UC San Diego, he said the only way of discovering the limits of what's possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. That's the name of the podcast. So I want to ask you, what aspect of life, now that you've lived it at the speed of life, what aspect of life perplexed you and mystified you as a 20-year-old, that now makes sense to you because you had the courage and dignity to go into the impossible. Women. You're not the first person who said that. This week, in fact, I had another person. and say that exact same thing. I was on his podcast, and I asked him that, and he said, I would go back in time and tell me to ask out more women.

Starting point is 00:30:22 And I said, if I did that, I'd just get more rejections than I already had. But yes, all right. Well, I have to thank you so much, James. This is a treat. I'm sorry it took so long. I'm sorry we had such technical difficulties, but it's really a treat. And I do appreciate the hand inscription.

Starting point is 00:30:42 I bought the book on Amazon. just so I could leave a verified review of this wonderful book, which means so much to me that you came on the show. We didn't get to talk about everything. I'm excited to hear about a future upcoming book. Do you want to say anything about that? I'm very honored to have been on your show. I'm looking forward to your next book

Starting point is 00:31:01 because losing the Nobel Prize was really, it just grabbed me. And I love the way you were part of it. You're intertwined personally throughout it in the scientific mystery. So I hope you're going to be writing another book. I'm writing a book right now about twins, a brother and a sister who are close but have a falling out over the disposition of their father's estate. I said, as you can tell, I'm staying away from the law. Yeah, that's right. Well, it might not be such a bad idea.

Starting point is 00:31:30 You know, Edwin Hubble said his father wanted him to be a lawyer, and he actually went to Oxford, and he studied laws or whatever they call it over there. And then he quit, and he came back, and he told him. his father, I'd rather be a second-rate astronomer than a first-rate lawyer. And so maybe you're doing the same thing. Maybe you're being a first-rate writer and a first-rate lawyer, or maybe some other combination thereof. But James Victor Jordan, James Jordan.com, please, everybody, go out, get this book. It's a phenomenal work of literature and art. Thanks to Eric. Hi, Eric. Hope you're still watching. I really appreciate your contributions to both the book, obviously, and the podcast. Are you going to work with Eric on the sort of semi-sequal follow-up to Speed of Bligh?

Starting point is 00:32:16 I will work with Eric as long as he'll have me to work with. I actually have a stain from the new book that I've, for almost, for over a year, I've been meaning to send Eric and ask him when he thinks about an illustration for it. But, yeah, I mean, Eric is multi-talented. It's not only in drawing illustrations, but it's, he's my, he designed and made came to my web. He can do videos, movies. He's just, he's awesome. He really is. You can find links to him on my website. I was just going to say that. Eric Savage is the man we're talking about a legend in this world. James, thank you so much for going into The Impossible. Have a wonderful

Starting point is 00:32:57 weekend. And yes, I'm going to take you up on that. I'm going to need some advice from my novel, you know, losing the Pulitzer Prize. I think that's my next one. All right. That's funny. I'll send you some books. Great. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishing from magic. Hello, I'm Stuart Volko, producer of Into the Impossible. If you enjoyed this episode with Professor Brian Keating,

Starting point is 00:33:30 please let us know by subscribing, commenting, sharing, and most importantly, reading and leaving reviews. It really helps keep our universe expanding. We appreciate hearing from you and read every review and comment. and we're always open to your suggestions for future episodes. Watch our YouTube channel at Dr. Brian Keating, DR. Brian Keating, and join our premieres every Tuesday at 8 a.m. Pacific Time for live chats.

Starting point is 00:33:55 Follow Brian on Twitter, Medium, and support us on Patreon at Dr. Brian Keating. That's DR. Brian Keating. For free access to exclusive content, please visit Professor Keating's website and sign up for his informative newsletter at Brian Keating. Into the Impossible is produced with the Arthur C. Clark Center for Human Imagination in the Division of Physical Sciences at the University of California, San Diego.

Starting point is 00:34:22 Eric Vary, director, Brian Keating, co-director, Pastor Coleman, associate director, produced by Stuart Valco and Brian Keating. For more information on the Arthur C. Clark Center, go to imagination.ucsd.edu.

Into the Impossible With Brian Keating - James Jordan: The Speed of Life (#126)

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