Into the Impossible With Brian Keating - Jay Wujun Yow: Podcast Producer, Sound Engineer – The Power of Audio (#120)

Episode Date: February 25, 2021

Jay Wujun Yow is the Audio Producer and Engineer for The James Altucher Show. He's become an indispensable part the Altucher media empire. Jay is a very passionate person when it comes to music and all kinds of media, especially sound. He's a graduate of Full Sail University, receiving 7 awards, including Valedictorian. He has a good ear and a talent for sound. Jay has applied his excellent computer skills to audio engineering and sound production for over 8 years. He's proficient in Pro Tools, Nuendo 2, Nuendo 3, Nuendo 4, Cubase 3, Cubase 5 and wavelab. He is skillful and quick at recording and editing. Artist worked with include: Mike Stern, Benedict Cumberbatch, Frank Grillo, American Author, Roomful of Teeth, Abbi Jacobson, IKillya, American Diesal, Castle Walls, Magic Room Theater, Benjamin Cartel. Chinese and Malaysian Artist; Gary Cao, Soo Wincci, Namewee, DayDream, ManHand, and Von. Voice Over Work included: Disney, Alexjacobi, The Story Exchanged, Fly Wheel Media, Blue State Digital, Dashlane Follow Jay at @jay_yow07 Connect with James Altucher: https://jamesaltucher.com/ 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:34 Jay's origin story and "choosing himself"! 00:14:28 Jay's ethical will. 00:20:26 What's your favorite game? 00:23:23 What are the hazards of these new mediums? 00:27:23 What advice would you give your younger self? Support the podcast: https://www.patreon.com/drbriankeating And please join my mailing list to get resources and enter giveaways to win a FREE copy of my book (and more) http://briankeating.com/mailing_list.php 📝 🎥 🎥 Watch my most popular videos🎥 🎥 Frank Wilczek https://youtu.be/3z8RqKMQHe0?sub_confirmation=1 Weinstein and Wolfram https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI0AZ4Y4Ip4?sub_confirmation=1 Sheldon Glashow: https://youtu.be/a0_iaWgxQtA?sub_confirmation=1 Michael Saylor The Physics of Bitcoin https://youtu.be/CaN_CDKqXOg?sub_confirmation=1 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. First, I want to ask you as I ask all my guests, a couple of questions. But first, talk about your origin story, how you got interested in podcasting, and how you got connected to James Altiture and the other projects that you work on. What is it about podcasting in particular? Now you're on the other side of the micro. I'm the engineer, not Jay. So, Jay, introduce yourself.

Where are you from? What's your origin story? Hi. Yeah, so my name is Jay. I'm from Malaysia. You know, like James and I always have this. James created the origin story for me. All right. So this is James Version. I'm going to tell James Wagesh. James Version is, you know, James was walking down the street in Soho, New York, and then he saw a Chinese person sitting in front of his hotel.

And then he's like, hmm, this guy can be my engineer. I don't know any Chinese. I don't know. I don't know any English and everything, you know. So I just, you know, I just followed James. he looks like an honest person with the hair and then I learned all the English from you know but yeah but by my original origin stories I'm from Malaysia initially my dream

my biggest dream is to win a Grammy and I'm always a audio engineer by heart so you know I worked in studio for music for post-production for TV but one day it is just Peelock James just came on the studio. And then, so the studio that I work in the system is like,

we got randomly assigned to sessions. So, you know, I just got assigned to James sessions. That time in my brain, podcast, I thought is just like a radio drama. Do you remember radio drama of it in the 60s?

Yeah, I don't remember, but I know of them, yeah. Yeah, well, but, but,

but, but, you know, like the 80s doesn't really, the 60 doesn't really, come to Malaysia until the 2000. The speed of light. The speed of light, yeah. Yeah, so what happened is, you know, I'm like, oh, this is just another voice of session

for me. I thought in my head. I'm like, so I just set up, I just sit there, I just ready to go. And then, you know, James walks in with, you know, Jesse Isler. I know the name. Yeah, so Jesse Isler is one of James Gass then. And then, you know, they would just have. have this

fascinating conversations and then I'm like this is great is this podcast podcast podcast podcast so I just went out

and told my studio manager like hey you know every time James James comes and book the studio just assign me on it

you know like I want to work with James I want to work on these awesome sessions so I've been working with Jameson

and then the studio closed so what happened is when the studio closed I just reached out to James I told him

you know the studio closed, I would love to still work with you. You know, I can take on a row. I know this, I know the studio since in the city. I can help you book any studio, have you schedule everything, so you don't have to worry about booking and scheduling. So, and then I just went on and become, you know, become James, a reporting engineer then.

And then sooner or later, all of a sudden, it became his assistant because I start helping him with, you know, with photos, any IT needs that you need and any scheduling that I can help. And it's like, hey, you know, just be my assistant and also at the same time be the producer for the show. So, yeah, that's my origin story into podcasting. So it's funny to me because, A, I got a new idea for your first book, which we called

Losing the Grammy. Losing the Grammy, yeah. It worked for me. And secondly, how you kind of preemptively, and maybe the reason that you guys resonate so much is because you have sort of a rapport that's based on similar, you know, kind of similar ideas that you kind of presage this notion of choosing yourself. Like, you could have just said, oh, like, who am I? And I, you know, the gatekeepers got to decide. But you went out there and pushed yourself ahead. And all of a sudden, that made all the difference in the world.

It is. Yeah, because like, see, if I never worked with jeans before, that wouldn't have crossed my mind. So like I learned so much just by working for James during that. I think it's only six months before the studio closed. Yeah, she came at the end of the studio, the studio life. So yeah, so like during the six months I learned so much, I learned about negotiating. I learned about choosing yourself. You have to go out there and the power of ask is very, very important because, like, you know, you just ask. The worst thing that can say is no.

Right. You know? Yeah. So I just asked, hey, you know, can, you know, I love working with you. You know, I think you'll kind, I'm pretty sure you'll like me, you know. Yeah. And the dynamic with me and James is that every time when we're in the same room, when we first started working, we didn't really talk as much because I'm an introvert myself. So he would just work on his stuff.

I would just work on my stuff. And then, you know, we have small chitch chat and then we go back working. I think that that sort of kick off the. relationship in a sense that I don't bother him if he's busy. You know, like I'm not one of those persons that have to talk to you even though when you're working on something. So I think he liked that the side of me or those now have changed, you know? Now I'm just like every time Jim's here, we just talk about anything.

We just talk about every, I would just ask him any questions and then he would have an awesome answer. And I'm like, oh, that's cool. Yeah. And I look at it and I think, wow, you know, Jay is one of the, you know, James's most frequent guest. I mean, you guys do episodes. They're supposed to be solo episodes.

And then it's Jay and you have so much insight. You know, it's just listening to, you know, one where you did recently and you're talking about like, you know, people that chose their artistic sensibilities over choosing, you know, financial remuneration. And you're like, just like quoting all these things like Rocky Five was about fit because one of the people that you guys were, I'm like, how does he know that? Like, I didn't know that. I'm from, like, 150 miles away from Rocky, you know, where Rocky was failed.

Like, it was in Malaysia during this whole time. Like, how could that possibly be? Well, the thing is, that's it. Because sometimes when James and I talk, we talk about Rocky sometimes. You know, sometimes I was just like, hey, James, have you seen this about Rocky? And then we would talk about it. And then sometimes James would be like, hey, do you know about this? And then we would talk about it.

So sometimes, like, sometimes I learn news from James and James learn news from me. I think James learned a lot more pop culture for me, and I learned news from him because, you know, obviously I'm a little bit younger than James. So I'll just tell him all the pop references out there. Yeah, and, but the thing is, but that's why I say you're so great because you can keep up with James. Like a lot of time, I can't keep up with shit.

Like, he, his talk process is so fast and so out there. Like, I really can't keep up. That's why I say I always love listening to your conversation with James because you guys have such a, it's like I'm still at, you know, with Intel Pentium 4, and then now you guys are Intel I7 or I-9, you know, the processor. I've got a Commodore 64 up here. But the thing that I notice about you and, you know, we've gotten to know each other. And that's one of my favorite things about coming on the show is you and I get to chat.

We email. First of all, you're extremely generous. But the other thing is you're extremely curious. And, you know, as far as like listening, keeping up at the speed, one thing that works for me is I'll listen to James on 2X. Right before I come on the show, I'll listen to James at 2X, which is really, really fast. But then when I speak to him at 1X, it sounds like I'm talking like this. That's one of my hacks.

You've given me plenty of hacks. But I want to talk about what means the most to you about audio as a medium, as opposed to video, which is a different medium? I've actually just taken my YouTube videos, make sure I've good audio, push it to audio as well. but you focus on the audio. There's a concept in Judaism, which is my language. I know you're going to convert to it after the circumstance.

Tomorrow. I'm going to go to. I actually leave a block like that's, I think there's a, what are you called Jewish temple? Yeah, temple, yeah. Yeah, it's right across from me.

Okay. Yeah, I heard they have some of those in New York City. I'm not mistaken. The funniest thing is, it's on the same block as one of the biggest church in my...

Yep. My neighborhood is so Jewish that the dung-in donuts down there, downstairs in my apartment, it's kosher. I am coming over there, man. I haven't had a good Dunkin' Donuts as kosher in many, many years. There aren't many in San Diego. First of all, there aren't very few Dunkin' Donuts. But in Judaism, which undoubtedly you know from your study of Judaism, but these past years learning Hebrew, we have like, you know, in Catholicism, they have the Our Father prayer. They have a prayer called Our Father.

It's called a catechism. It's like a statement of faith of the religion that they believe God is in heaven and, you know, his name is holy and there's peace and peace. In Judaism, there's an analog of that and it's called the Shema. And Shama in Hebrew means hear or listen. And actually in this prayer itself or in these words that we say every day, three times a day, it has the following phrase. It says, do not follow after, you know, listen, follow your ears. do not follow after your eyes or your heart that make you turn away, turn astray.

And I wonder, you know, do you think that audio is deeper than visual? Like we've all been attracted to like, you know, the opposite sex or whatever. I don't care. You know, whatever your choice is is fine by me. But, you know, I'm not saying you, Jeff. Just like in general, the listeners that will listen to this. I'll tell you. But my point is like we've all been led astray by something that's beautiful, visually appeals to us visually.

And you never hear a politician, like, politician goes down in a huge sex scandal because he listened to some, you know, person's voice. It's always, they followed after their eye. What is it about audio that is deeper, that stimulates the brain so much more than the eyes? At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light, and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV. Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live.

There were thousands of movies and shows, and they were all. free. The truth is our It's just so beautiful. On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 NX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials,

no credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. It's really funny because I've been thinking about that. No, I wouldn't say quite often a little bit. It's that, you know, every time when you put on headphones versus you are

looking at the screen, like even if you close your eyes, like the phrase, you can hear them in your head. You can see them in your head, but you can hear them in your head. Because if you're putting it on their headphones, like you feel like the person is right beside you talking into your ear.

Yes. But when you see a monitor screen, it's always that's a layer of separations with the visual. I'm not sure if that makes sense. Yes. Yeah. Like, I'm looking to, I mean, you know, I'm looking at you in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in the monitor, it's felt like, yeah, you're there. And I can instantly tell you are not beside me.

But if you're listening to podcasts, if you close your eyes, you can, you almost felt like they are beside you, you know? That's why they say the podcasting is such a successful medium is because when you listen on your headphones, it felt like they are there listening to you. Right. I don't know if you have this experience. is if you follow one person on YouTube all the time versus you follow that person's podcast all the time, you feel closer to him when you listen to the podcast rather than watching his YouTube.

Yeah. Because you can tell, like he's probably faking some stuff on visual. You know, like you said, like in Judaism, they say like visual can deceive you more than, you know, the audio can. And fun fact, I actually is attracted to. voices more than more than visual yeah it actually does take place actually in the orthodox judaism you men and women are separated visually but you're also not supposed to hear women sing and i agree with you you know you're saying oh that's stupid that's so sexes but you know it is true

that there are you know between the concept of amount now take what's the highest level it's something that's invisible and inaudible namely god right So if you believe in God, and I never proselytized, that's against my religion to proselytize. But in Judaism, like we believe God is unseeable. You can't see him. And you can't hear him directly. And if you do, you're supposed to go to see a psychiatrist or, you know, check yourself into a matter. But that's the whole point.

And so when I'm at synagogue or temple or whatever, you know, it's always harder for me to keep my mind on the invisible, inaudible God than it is to look at my wife's beautiful voice or listen to it. So, yeah, I don't think it's, and by the way, it could be for women, too. I don't know. I don't know what that experience is. So I don't think it's necessarily sexist. I think it's necessarily capitulating to the fact that the human mind has such a hard job conceptualizing God at all that almost it would be better to be in like a sensory deprivation tank than anything else. Yeah. Yeah.

And also, like, I don't know if this relate, but like when you're younger, like when you're just born, the first thing you hear about other than. and the doctor and the nurses before, you know, your eyes, you know, it's open. You probably hear your mom voice first. That's right. You can hear your parents' voices. The babies can sense the parents' voices inside the womb, and they certainly can't see anything. You know, I always ask my kids, what's your earliest memory? It's not like, oh, I remember you telling me the Schrodinger equation when I was a five-month gestation.

Well, my kids might do that. But speaking of Judaism, I want to ask you some of the questions that I ask all my guests that come on. It's not really specific to Judaism. But there's a concept in Judaism of an ethical will, something that you want to give to people in terms of wisdom. You are what I consider, you know, like kind of pancultural that you, you know, you've been in so many different cultures. You've adapted to so many different things. We'll get to like your life advice to your former self later on today. But I want to know, like, what you've learned so far from your experiences.

America, you know, working with James, obviously, but even things outside of working with James. I'm interested in you specifically. What wisdom have you learned that you want to give to the future, not on terms of, you know, monetary, you know, bequeathing something financially, but what do you want to give the world in terms of wisdom? I know you're young, but still, you've constructed, you've done, you've had so many experiences. And my question is, what kind of wisdom could you distill as an inheritance as a will for future genera? I don't know if this is important at all, but at least it's important for me. And I stood by pretty much once I got here to the state, is that, you know, be able to be able to be able to be able to adapt into any situations and flexible.

Or if you're born in the Western country, make sure you spend some. time in Asia country because Western culture and Asian culture are two different things, but they should be combined into one to make a whole, you know. Like my perspective changed so much. You know, like I've been in Malaysia for my longest life, so I live in Malaysia for 24 years. So I always follow the Asian real Asian culture or whatever and then came here and then I start seeing all this thing and start learning and other things, all this thing. that sort of just mold me into who I am today

is to combine the Western culture and Western mentality with the Asian culture and Asian mentality. Of course, you know, you pick the best of both. You didn't just combine them all entirely. You pick the best of both. And be able to be flexible, that's actually very, very, very hard. And, you know, it's very important because not every...

Like, I've seen a lot of people that came from, from Asia to here and they would just stick to their way. They're like, oh, this is why I do things. This is how I do things. I'm not going to change my thing. I'm not going to change my lifestyle to feed out of the lifestyle. And then sooner they got depressed and then they went back home. You know, yeah.

So it's very important to be able to adapt to adapt to new ideas. Probably one of the most important thing. Very nice. We're going to again talking with that with Jay Wujin, Yao. who is the super producer. He rocks the mic and the turntables. He is the DJ that we turn to when we want to BJ. I want to talk about, and of course you're very heavily acknowledged in James' new book.

I want to ask you, well, let me ask you first. Do you believe you've heard me kind of be bearish and negative about extraterrestrials? You've heard Avi Lobb, a professor at Harvard, be bullish. Do you think A, there are extraterrestrials, and B, do you think that we're living in a simulation. Where do you come down on those two? Okay. So I'm a huge friend of superheroes movie and superhero comics. Obviously, I would hope that we will have, you know, some sort of, you know, you know, alien that wear red tight, you know, and blue tights or whatever. But I, I, maybe there's, I mean, I'm not a physicist,

you know, you're a scientist of a physicist. Obviously, you know better than me, but like, for me, life would mean differently outside of the earth, I would say. You know, maybe what we consider a life form or carbon-based life form would be different in, you know, outside of earth. It could be something that maybe doesn't need oxygen, maybe doesn't need air, maybe doesn't need water, but maybe they are leaving or maybe they are not leaving. You know, living is just just just just, just, just, just,

living is subjective, right? You can, the tree is living. You know, the rock could be living too. Right. You know, for all we know, but they're just not moving. Or there's no way to define, yeah, no way to define their, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, livingness. Or like, like, I'm not sure, I don't know if you have seen this experiment, like, someone, someone take two glasses of water.

One, they say gratitude stuff to the water and the other one, they just, like, you. you know, yell at the water or say negative thing to the water. And then I don't know, somehow they crystallize it and then they put it under microscope that they both are very different, the one that was given the credit, the and, you know, appreciations form more beautiful than the other one. I don't know if you have seen the experiment. No, it sounds a little suspicious to me, but yeah. I mean, I could be wrong.

It could be some bus feed stuff that I read somewhere. But I always believe in, you know, like living probably just subjective. You know, everyone's. It's hard to define that. And are we living in simulations? I heavily believe we are living in simulations. Maybe because I'm a gamer. So I sort of see the sign or something like that.

But I do believe we're living in simulations. missions because why would you spawn into that body and then everyone else could be what I call NPCs non-player control and non-player character you know so I don't know what I don't know favorite game in terms of like the one that most expands your mind I mean I keep in mind I don't play many computer games but but what one is like because I know my kids get really wrapped up in Minecraft and there's this meta layer where it actually relates to physicists and so forth to think about these issues of consciousness that you were just talking about.

Anyway, what for you, let me ask you two questions. What, is there a game that you could recommend to me knowing that I have a limited amount of time and bandwidth that is so important, like you got me on Clubhouse and you thought that was so important for me and you were right and I thank you for that.

Now we did James as well. So now it's leveraging. But is there anything that would benefit my brain, my capacity or whatever? And I'm just ignorant of it because I don't follow that aspect of, technology. Well, I mean, games, there's a couple ways of looking at games. So do you want to play for the story? So like for me, I only play two categories of games, maybe three, two,

two main categories. It's one, it's story driven. Like, you know, you read books to know story, you read to learn stories. For me, I learn story from playing games. You know, how people say, like, you know, you live a thousand different life if you read books. For me, I live a thousand lives by playing games. That's like, you know, a lot of games out there that I just love their stories. Their story is so beautiful. And then the other one, it's because, you know, obviously right now we are adults, so I only have limited time to play.

So I will play games that's sort of competitive but casual at the same time. I can play and then it's done and then I can reset again. I can play again. So for the story one, one of my favorite is called Bioshock Infinite because they explore alternate reality and multiverse. In that game, I'm going to spoil it to you. Towards the end, they just say that each stars,

it's a portal to a different universe. Yeah, so they came out with this technology to pull different people, to pull the same person from different universe to their universe to achieve whatever plan to have. Ultimately, that leads them to go to GameStop and they have to pick up the stock. Yeah, and the stock is going to go down and stuff like that. But yeah, that game just blew my mind. And then I just love science since I was younger.

So it's like, you know, anything that they have to do with science. And they put the two of them together. Yeah. You got time for one or two more questions? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great, good, good, good, good. So, you know, in this experience and kind of like thinking about technology and its exponential growth, but also kind of its hazards and sort of the negative stuff that you've seen by proxy, I mean, I was hurt, you know, and James was attacked, assailed, criticized by Jerry Seinfeld this summer. When you're dealing with that, I see you as a very valuable role.

you're not only a sounding board. You contribute. You're a star character. You are a player character on the James Lter's. But do you sometimes feel a little bit of a burden, Jay, as if you're a therapist. I mean, we can all be therapist, by the way. I mean, I have a strength therapist that's a personal trainer,

at least I used to, if you can't tell. But do you feel like you are kind of a coach or a therapist in a certain way? Not really. Are he to you? He to me for sure. James to me, that's for sure. Like every time, he almost like a father figure to me.

You know, like I will, we will talk about stuff and then I will ask him for advice. It would give me a great advice. For me, I think I'm a bad influencer and enabler. He's like,

oh, I just want to play chess. I'm like, yeah, sure, let's play chess. Let's watch you play chess. And then we just play out, we just there,

we just talk, and then he played chess. But, but, you know, my role is pretty much just like, okay, what is James wasting time on right now? And I can turn that into content. So James's been playing a lot of chess, a lot, like a huge amount of chess.

I'm like, well, you should just stream. It should start streaming on Twitch. And then he's like, no, no. And then I keep, you know, of course, you know, I keep saying like, you should stream. You should stream. Keep streaming. Keep streaming. So I managed to get him to stream a couple times on Twitch.

So that actually turned into content, you know, which you saw it on the Twitter. yesterday. So, so, like, I realize, you know, like, if James want to do

something, that's nothing that we can stop him from doing it. So that's why, that's why being, being able to adapt and be flexible,

it's very important, is that, okay, he has, he's going to do that thing no matter what anyway. So I just think, I have to think of,

a way to turn what he's doing into content or, you know, or something that at least I can put it out there or we can put it out there.

So like anything can be monetized, anything can be content, you know. So yeah, so that's just me. So like I just trying to see like how I can help James because James helped me tremendously. So my role is to make sure I'm able to help James grow. And you do. You do a phenomenal job. And the last question I have, I ask all the guests that honor me by their presence on the Into the Impossible podcast relates to the name of the podcast.

in the following sense. And I think you'll resonate with some of these laws that Arthur C. Clark set up and put forth many, many decades ago. The first one is that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. And this is a quote that I think, someone in technology, in game playing, et cetera, the stuff that you see now, you know,

it's like futuristic, sometimes comes true in the not-so-distant future. So that's certainly true. The other thing we talk about a lot is like, What does it mean to be an expert? And Arthur C. Clark said, for every expert, there's an equal and opposite expert. So that's kind of funny to me that, you know, one person will say something. And if we never just take, oh, you're a scientist, yeah, okay, Isaac Newton.

I'm not going to investigate general relativity, you know, Galileo. I'll just take our Einstein. I'll just take your word for it. No, we always want to question the expert. But his third law really relates to advice to your former self. And the way I phrase it is basically the name of this podcast. Arthur Clark used to say, the only way of discovering the limits of the possible

is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. So what you think is impossible, you must try to venture into. And so that's the name of the podcast. I want to ask you, when you are half your current age, was there a piece of advice or some knowledge that you could give to the younger, you know, Jay, Ujou, and then... that something will be possible

only if he has the courage, strength, stamina, hit points, whatever, to go into the impossible. Always ask the good that you have crushed on out. Always the thing is more like always ask. So Asian culture, I mean,

maybe it's just me, we are afraid of us. Like we are afraid of rejection. which is I would say 50% of the people out there always afraid of rejections you know

you know what so like I'm pretty sure I missed a lot of opportunity by just not asking by just assuming they will say no so these two things I will tell to my younger self

is always ask and never assume anything like I wouldn't I wouldn't like, so if I, if I want to hang up with you tomorrow, I would still, I will ask right now, you know, I wouldn't assume like, oh, tomorrow is Friday, Brian's probably busy, you know, doing blah, blah, I would just ask, you know. So, yeah, ask is very important and never assume anything and never expect, and didn't ask back anything.

That's really brilliant. I'm glad you said that because there are, there have been studies done that I read. There were a famous accident that took place in a Korean Airlines plane in San Francisco about five or six years ago, maybe more. And they found they traced a lot of the root cause to the co-pilot who was really smart and very knowledgeable, but he was scared to kind of ask quite like, are you sure you want to land without the landing gear or whatever they did wrong or by this instrument approach during perfect weather conditions? And they said at, at least at Korean Airlines now, we know that Malaysia is very different, of course. but I think Malaysia's airplane always is gone missing

you know we do ask questions yeah I don't want to talk about Malaysian airplane but anyway we shouldn't joke but the point being that the

that you know kind of yeah we should all take that advice because you know I wouldn't have gotten people to come on my show even get connected to James you know I got connected to James we did a TED talk

together TEDx San Diego back in back in about five five or six years ago. And we met each other. And I had been listening to him for a long time. Really liked him a lot. And we,

and I tried to connect to him just back. And, you know, but I didn't really, I didn't have any urgency, shall we say. And then later, earlier last year in 2020, I got connected to Jordan Harbinger,

who was a mutual friend, a podcaster as well. And Jordan had me on his show. And after like two years of negotiation, basically like I had to submit all this stuff and all these comments. And it just took a really long time. And it was definitely worth it because Jordan's got a huge audience, huge platform. Podcaster of the year, 2018, like his personal Nobel Prize and your Grammy.

But then he said, look, you know, I'm sure people ask you to be connected to guests all the time. I'm happy to connect you to whatever guests I have. If you're interested, Jordan usually turns me down because he thinks a lot of my guests, except for this one. He's going to ask me for a connection to you, I'm sure. He, you know, he's talking about Kobe Bryant and President Clinton or whatever. See, he's got pretty high-level guests. But anyway, I said, I'm only going to ever ask you for one introduction. And so far I've kept this, my word.

And I said, I want to be reintroduced to James Altiture. And Jordan did. And, you know, thanks to that, which took, you know, two or three years in the making, you and I are having this conversation. So not being afraid to ask and that and putting it out there because it risk vulnerability. It risks rejection. And so I think, you know, I can't envision you. as shy or timid, but I take your word for it that you must have been, but it's a salute to you

that you've grown as a human being and you've benefited by, as we say, going into the impossible. And Jay, I want to thank you. I love talking to you. I'll probably talk to you in a couple days. And it's just so much fun. I've learned from you. And you're just, yeah, you're a real, you're such a professional. And I know you're going to, if you don't win the Grammy, you get a book out of it, losing the Grammy Prize. I'll help you rock it right now. Yeah, yeah. And And I can't wait to do more things together. You're so much, you're one of the bright spots that I get to look forward to whenever we chat. It's a bonus.

I get a side bonus. When I talk to James, I get to talk to Jay. It's like a side dish, you know? You have to make a course and you have the side dish or the dessert. That's right. That's right. All right, Jay Wududyo. Thank you so much.

Have a great day. Say hi to New York City. Go and get me a kosher sausage, Dunkin' Donuts, sandwich. I just had it this morning. Oh, you did? Awesome. So on weekdays, Monday to Friday, every day, my breakfast is kosher sausage with coffee and a donut. Oh, my God.

Oh, you're making me pine for my ancestral homeland. Your homeland and my homeland will unite them together. I hope we can see each other in person this year. Maybe I'll come up. Yeah, maybe you should come out to New York because a block from me, there's this place called Barney Green Brass. Oh, my God. Oh, that's famous. Yeah, the famous.

Jewish place. I only been there once because I moved here and then six months later, lockdown started. Yeah. I walked by it. I gained 10 pounds from the locks and the shriek and the bag of, you get the bag of breath and you gain five pounds. Jay, I can't wait to do that in person. I'm really looking forward to meeting you in person someday.

Okay. Thank you for having you on. Bye, Jay. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishing from magic. If you enjoyed this episode of Into the Impossible with Professor Brian Keating, please subscribe, comment, share, and review. Watch on YouTube, listen on iTunes, Spotify, Google Player, Stitcher. We appreciate hearing from you and are always open to your suggestions for future episodes.

For more information, and to sign up for Professor Keating's mailing list, go to Brian Keating.com. Follow Professor Keating on Medium and Twitter at Dr. Brian Keating, DR. Brian Keating. For more information on the Clark Center, go to imagination.ucsd.edu. Into the Impossible is a production of the Arthur C. Clark Center for Human Imagination at the University of California, San Diego, in the Division of Physical Sciences. Eric Vary, Director, Brian Keating, co-director, produced by Brian.

Keating and Stuart Ballcoe.