Into the Impossible With Brian Keating - Rapper & entrepreneur Zuby: A brief history of rhyme! (#060)

Episode Date: July 29, 2020

  Rapper and entrepreneur Zuby shares his thoughtful brand of straight talk on this episode of INTO THE IMPOSSIBLE. Topics included whether an AI rapper will ever pass the “Turing Test”, his fitness book “Strong Advice,” his independently released albums, and his REAL TALK podcast. Subscribe to Brian Keating’s newsletter to receive show notes for this episode: https://briankeating.com/mailing_list.php 00:04:04 Is your DNA your destiny? 00:11:44 A day in the life of Zuby. 00:20:05 Prayer as a form of mindful meditation. 00:26:44 Imposter syndrome and handling feedback. 00:36:50 The impacts of artificial intelligence on our humanity. 00:50:00 Authenticity of language in Zuby’s music. 00:57:34 What ethical will does Zuby plan to leave behind? 00:59:18 What object or knowledge would Zuby put in or on his monolith? 01:00:17 What did Zuby think was impossible until he did it? Zuby is a musician, author, podcaster, public speaker, fitness expert, and life coach. He studied computer science at Oxford. Buy Zuby’s book and albums here: https://teamzuby.com Listen to the “Real Talk with Zuby” podcast here: https://www.zubymusic.com/podcast Watch Zuby’s interview on The Joe Rogan Experience https://youtu.be/ffwbNfjNRTw Find Zuby on the web: https://www.zubymusic.com  Twitter: https://twitter.com/zubymusic Please subscribe, rate, and review the INTO THE IMPOSSIBLE Podcast on iTunes for a chance to win a copy of Zuby’s book: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-impossible/id1169885840?mt=2 A production of http://imagination.ucsd.edu/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Okay, and I'm going to put the link here. Okay, welcome everybody to the Into the Impossible podcast. I am Brian Keating, your fearful host. Very terrified lately in all the madness that's going on around the world of my life. Personally, I'm sure everybody out there, hope everybody's doing well, staying sane and sanitized. Today it's a great honor to have on Zubi, who's impresario of the mind and the body. and we met kind of tangentially. I think I was sort of like an opening act for Zubi

in that I was on the Ben Shapiro Sunday special, I think a week before he was. And so together, I think you and I, Zubi, teamed up for 1,000, 1,000, 1,000 views. Oh, I won't say what part of that 1,000, 1,000 I contributed to, but it might be the 1,000. Anyway, Zubi, welcome. Where are you today?

Where is your studio at today? I'm reporting from Southampton, UK right now. Oh, wonderful. So Zubi, you're the author of a book that I got the minute I saw that it existed. It's called Strong Advice. And I always like to start off my conversations with authors such as yourself by a little dive into the book. And I always note the advice that people give to not judge a book by its cover. I think that that's misgiven.

I think you should judge your book by your cover in a certain sense, especially when it's interesting and intriguing. So I'm showing it here on the video. I'm going to click it with a me so you can see somebody who's actually able to make a pose like this. So I always say thank you for your book because, you know, it allowed me to drop a couple of pounds, you know, from my double chin to my stomach. So I dropped it all the way to do. Yeah. I'm happy to hear. I'm really happy to hear.

So to walk us through the cover, Zibbi, what does it mean? And what is the title and how did you come up with the title, subtitle, et cetera? Oh, wow. Okay. So the cover is, uh, is me looking jacked. That was actually, that was actually a picture from an album photo shoot, but I never used it with the album or anything. So I thought, you know, that would actually make a pretty cool, a pretty cool cover. So that's why I, I use that specific photo. And of course, I wanted to, uh, yeah, show myself in, in good physical condition.

If I'm promoting and selling a fitness book, then I think it's imperative that I practice what I preach and I am in good shape. Some people said it looks like, uh, like a women's romance. novel or something, which I find quite funny. That'll be your follow-up. That'll be your follow-up, right? And in terms of the title, I have to give props to, I would shout out the specific handle, but I'm not sure off the top of my head. But somebody on Twitter actually recommended the title. I was saying that when I was writing it, I was saying, hey, I'm writing a fitness book, thinking of ideas for titles, et cetera. And someone tweeted strong advice at me.

And I was like, you know what? That is, that's actually a fantastic. title. So I ended up using that. And that's how it became strong advice. And then Zubi's Guide to Fitness for Everybody, that's just a little tagline to make it clear that it's a fitness book and also that it's for everybody because I do get a lot of people asking, you know, does this work for younger people? Is it, does it work for women? Does it work for people over 50, et cetera? And it's like, the answer is yes. The principles that I lay out in the book and the advice I give in there is not super specific to young men, for example. It's whether you're a young man or a more elderly woman, then a lot of it will be applicable to you. Some of the exercise sections, some of that may need to be modified a

little bit in terms of the recommended exercises and sets and reps and things like that. But in terms of the foundational info, it's very universal. And yeah, I look at it. And the first thing I always think about when I read books about fitness and I think I've read every single book there is about fitness. Not that you can tell, but, you know, first I look at the person. I say, you know, I look at Zubi, I look at the cover and I say, you know, is it true? The rumors are true that you were born. When you were born, you had a six-pack on your umbilical cord. Just like, is your genetic destiny just, you know, so superior to mine that how can you, how do you, you know, break the dichotomy of genes in nature versus nurture, destiny.

Do you believe that's the case that your genes determine your physical body is capable of looking like or feeling like? Sorry, man. I actually, your connection got lost a little bit there. Oh, sorry about that. Let me see if this is better. So I was asking, you know, is your DNA, your destiny, essentially? Are you basically, are human beings effectively at the limitations of what their physical genes

for building muscle and losing weight, et cetera? No. In one word. We all have, you know, we all have different levels of potential. We all have different strengths and weaknesses, et cetera, but most people never even come remotely close to their potential. And certainly in terms of physical fitness and strength and health, et cetera, you don't know what your genetic potential is unless you've been training effectively

and eating well for probably at least. four to five years, you're not even going to have a clue. For anyone who thinks I came out in the womb looking like that, no, I mean, I weighed more when I was 16 than I weigh now at 33. Okay, so anyone who knew, I used to be overweight, right? I was overweight. I was a chubby kid. I used to take me like 12 minutes to run a mile.

I couldn't do a pull up until I was, I think I did my first pull up when I was 13 or 14. I was not some jacked, ripped child whatsoever. I think I probably have stronger than average. I think I'm stronger than average in terms of my genetic potential. Certainly in terms of lifts like my deadlift, I think there are a lot of people who no matter how much they trained, they probably wouldn't get their deadlift over 600 pounds, which I've done. But I wouldn't have even known that had I not put in 10 plus years of, of training. So genetics are a really lame excuse for success in anything. I mean, that's,

I can't think of anything that's more defeatist than saying you can't succeed in something because of your genetics. Sure, if you're talking about the very tip-top optimal levels, right, you're talking about being a professional or world-class in something, sure, that's going to play a role. Not everybody can, no matter how hard you train, not everybody's going to be a professional NBA player. Not everyone's going to be a professional football player, rugby player, etc. Genetics are going to play a role there as well as work ethic. But in terms of rising to maybe the top 10 or top 20% of most things, most people have the possibility to do that with training and determination and perseverance. Some people may get there quicker than others. It may be a little bit easier for some people than others. but yeah, I absolutely do not think that DNA is destiny, not in the slightest. I don't believe that.

Now, talk me through your philosophy on kind of knowledge versus wisdom, kind of in the application of the tools and the tactics you bring about in the book. It's very prescriptive. It's very, it's formulaic, which is good. I'm not saying in a negative way because I think people at the last resort rely on their willpower and you know kind of at the first resort they rely on rituals religious rituals or whatever those are very hard to break and in the middle is kind of like habits but you know what's what's your perspective on that i've heard people like jaco willing say you know don't rely on willpower it's nonsense

or no willpower on the other hand can be the greatest strongest trait that a human being can have where do you cleave in that spectrum of kind of hierarchy of what you should rely on It's a good question. I mean, I think that what I say in the book is that motivation gets you started and habit keeps you going. So I think when it comes to nutrition and training and other positive habits, it's important to make lifestyle changes. It's important to make long-term habitual changes rather than just thinking, okay, I'm going to go on a diet for four weeks, or I'm going to go to the gym for two weeks, or whatever it is. It's important to overhaul. your entire way of thinking so that you think about it long term. I mean, I'm thinking 30 years down the line, 40 years down the line, 50 years down the line, right? I'm not going to stop going to the gym. I'm not going to stop taking my nutrition seriously at any point in my lifetime.

I've decided. I've committed to that. And yeah, sure, there may be some times where I'm able and I'm able to give it 10% more, and there's times where I might have to cut back a little bit, et cetera. but it's really a long-term habitual change because, you know, to get going on something, yes, it takes a level of motivation, it takes a level of willpower, especially if it's something that you are not used to. So even within the world of fitness, for example, I am not particularly fond of running. Like, I certainly don't like long-distance running. So if I want to develop a running

habit and I want to work on my cardiovascular fitness and just get better at running a couple miles, then it's going to take me, I need willpower and motivation to get going on that. I don't need motivation and willpower at the stage to lift weights and do strength training because I've been doing it for over 15 years. I enjoy it. I love it. I know exactly what I'm doing, et cetera, and I'm good at it. And it's also just part of my, it's part of my habit, at least it was prior to lockdown. I'm still doing my training. So in order to do it. So, in order to do it. develop any new habit, especially one that takes effort and where there might be a little bit of pain and discomfort. It takes willpower. It takes motivation to do that. But the thing that's going to

keep you going in the long term, if you still want to be doing that same thing a year from now, you do have to ultimately form the habit because as strong as your willpower may be and as motivated as you may be, if you don't form the habit, you know, after a certain amount of time, you are almost destined to fall off it as other things get busy, as other things take priority. Those things will override the things that have a lower priority. So what people need to do if they want to get healthier is put their health at a higher priority than they do some of the other things in their lives, essentially, because that's how we all operate whether or not it's consciously. We're always weighing things up in terms of priority. And

when people say they don't have time, that's the most common excuse you'll hear for anything, right? I don't have time. And when someone says that, what you're really saying is that that thing is not a, it's not a high priority for me right now. That's really what, that's really the translation of the statement. And, um, hey, I say that too, lots of times, right? I say that too, depending on what the issue is. And all I'm saying is, yeah, you know, I could, I could do. it, right? We all have the same amount of time, but there are other things that are a higher priority to me right now, rightly or wrongly. Yeah, I see that, you know, I heard one someone asked, like Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, my former governor here, and they said, you know, like, well,

you just have this advanced genetics. And he was like, no, I have the same number of muscles as you do. You know, it's like we're all born with these, you know, for the most part, born with the same potential. And then that's how do you actualize your potential? I wonder before we segue into kind of compare and contrast and, you know, not the trash talk other diet or fitness plans, but I do want to just segue just very briefly into what does a typical day look like you for, for Zubi now versus before lockdown, so to speak, what kind of, you know, are you super early riser? Do you start lifting like a machine? And what does your nutrition look like? Not super deep. We don't have to go 10 minutes on this, but just kind of big picture overview.

What does your day look like typically? Yeah. Right now, everything. is shifted back later. So right now I am waking up and going to sleep later than I normally would and do. So at the moment, I'm probably going to bed at like, realistically, maybe 1 a.m. on average and getting up around, I don't know, 8, 8.30 or something. Normally, that would be shifted earlier, so I'd normally be waking up around 7 and going to bed a little bit earlier. But yeah, I mean, a typical day I will get up. I'll normally, you know, clean myself up, brush my teeth, et cetera, and then normally

do some form of training, whether that's body weight training, pushups, pull ups, single leg squats, et cetera, and or go for a run. Normally I'll run for like about 25 minutes or so. I am trying to get into the running habit while we are in this period because, like I said, I don't like running, which is why I need to do it more. I believe in constantly pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone and doing things sometimes that you don't like because, you know, it is good for you and you've got to do it. And like I said before, I need to practice what I preach. So I can't just do the things that are easy for me or already

within my current set of habits. If I know that it's good for me, then it's important for me to adopt that and work to add that to what I'm already doing. In terms of prior to lockdown, like I said, normally I would wake up earlier and just get changed and hit the gym straight away and just get into my training, which is primarily based around strength training, but also a little bit of cardio. In terms of my eating patterns, again, it's shifted back a bit later. I'm still typically doing a light version of intermittent fasting. I'm not super duper strong on it as much as I normally would be.

I'm probably at the moment on average. Yeah, eating window. I mean, I still work to keep it around eight hours. Sometimes it might go up to 10 and be like normally it would be an eight hour eating window and then 16 hour fast. At the moment, it might be more like a 10 hour eating window and a, sorry, 14 hour fast, something like that. But what I'm trying to do right now really is about maintenance. I'm trying to maintain and make sure I don't lose too much muscle, make sure I don't gain too much fat,

and just overall stay healthy both physically and psychologically. That's really what I'm trying to do. I'm not expecting to make huge gains without having gym access. But yeah, you know, I'm hanging in there. This is the longest I've gone without going to the gym since I started training. Wow. The longest I've ever gone. Yeah.

I'll play at all. It'll be ending soon to be back in the gym. So speaking of programs, I heard it said once, you know, if knowledge and lack of knowledge were the issue, you know, and all you needed was knowledge, then everyone would be a billionaire with six-pack abs. And I wonder, you know, your take is different actually and unique compared to a lot of other plans. You know, there's keto. I just went through a list of all the diets I tried, you know, this weekend, you know, intermittent fasting, keto, pale. doing supplements, bulletproof diet where you're just like all fat, you know, then there's diet supplements. Where do you, you know, fit in on there?

Is it, is it people should try all these different things from, you know, Tim Ferriss to Dave Asbury to Peter Attia. Where do you kind of come down in that realm? Or do you think basically the advice is just simple. Calories in, calories out, exercise, burns more energy than you take in. What do you make of the proliferate? There's so many diet books. of course. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty boring in that sense. I'm typically averse to fads. I don't like fads in anything, right, if everyone is doing something and it's got like a certain brand name and it's just this or

whatever. Like I become naturally quite skeptical. And also, I don't like the idea of, unless someone has something like an autoimmune disorder or like a serious intolerance or allergy or something, I'm not a big fan personally, certainly for my own eating of eliminating insolierreesome. entire food groups. I don't like the idea of totally, you know, going super duper low fat or super duper low carb or cutting out all sugars or cutting out all fruit or all vegetables or just eating meat, et cetera, you know, not eating meat at all. I don't like any extremist approach to dieting. I mean, if that works for you and you're happy with it and you enjoy those foods and it's effective, et cetera, that's totally fine. I mean, I'm, I'm an omnivore. Like, I'm just an omnivore. I'm not

plant-based. I'm not carnivore. I'm not, I'm not paleo. I'm just, I'm just, I eat. I primarily base my foods around whole nutritious foods, you know, stuff that my ancestors would at least recognize for the most part. But even then, you know, I'd be a liar if I said I don't eat processed food. I'd be a liar if I said, I don't eat, you know, sugars and I don't eat simple carbs and stuff like that. I do. It's not my, it's not my primary, it's not the primary sort of core component of my diet. But every, you know, I don't eat. But every. single day I have some sugar. Every single day I have some processed food pretty much. But it's a relatively small percentage. And I know with me as long as I keep my, as long as I keep my

calories in check, I keep my protein high, I keep my carbs and fats within reasonable amounts, then I personally do fine. You know, if some people find they need to cut something out and that works really well for them, then I don't oppose it. You know, I'm generally, I'm very much in the camp of, look, if it works for you, if it works for you, then do it, right? If someone is on a plant-based diet and they're surviving and they're thriving and their vitamin B-12 and vitamin D levels and iron, et cetera, are all fine and they're healthy and their blood work is good and they like it and they enjoy it, I'm not going to be trying to convert them to, you know, start eating meat. Similarly, if someone is only eating meat and

all those things are good, I'm not going to be like trying to force them to eat, add fruit to it or to add, you know, vegetables or carbs, et cetera, if that works for you, then that is, that is totally fine. And I think people get too, too dogmatic in this stuff because it's not that, you know, like what, what you eat literally does not make me crap. Pardon the, you know, part in the, pardon to be crude, but. I thought you were a clean rapper, Zubi. In the most, yeah, I did, I did censor it a little. I said crap, right? But like in the, and like literally in this sense, right?

Like what someone else puts in their body, what they eat does not have any impact on me whatsoever. So yes, I do encourage people to pay attention to their nutrition. I encourage people to train. I encourage people to be healthy and realize they only have one body so they better take care of it. But in terms of the prescription, I'm happy to be flexible in that regard and understand that just because something works ideally for me, it doesn't mean it's going to be optimal for the next person. There are certain basic rules that matter, which is what I highlight in the book, certain things that we need to be aware of. But then beyond that, it's totally fine and healthy to have some flexibility there.

So I want to get your opinions on kind of the next set of topics. We'll cover kind of the brain, mind side of Zubi and creativity, imagination that we're known for here in San Diego, we are at the Arthur C. Clark Center for Human Imagination. And one of the things I've gotten into lately is talking to thinkers, medical doctors, Peter Diamandas, and Dr. Judson Brewer, and other people about the impact of the brain and kind of the mind machine interface. And the first thing I want to ask you is, what do you make of the proliferation of meditation and mindfulness, things like that?

I notice your fellow rapper, Puff Daddy, has a new meditation course out that you can get. Yeah. So, you know, is that a sign that we're kind of getting? getting, you know, it's getting too popular or, I mean, do you, what do you view the role of meditation and mindfulness in the, in the pursuit of physical change? That's a good question. I don't really meditate. I don't meditate. I've had a lot, it's actually a question I get asked a lot. I think a lot of people assume that I'm, I'd be a meditation guy. I'm not. I have done it before. I've tried it before. And I'll probably try it and get into it

some point again in the future but um again i don't i don't do trends right i mean i don't if it works for somebody then then do it if if meditation is good for you and you find it helpful and you find it centers you and balances you etc then i'm not going to knock it i'm not going to say hey meditation is is bad or i think it's silly or i just if it works for you then that is totally fine um the times I have done it and have gotten into it, I haven't particularly found that it's made a big difference for me. I mean, I'm someone who's already very low stress, very low anxiety, isn't super up in my emotions and stuff. And, you know, I maybe for someone who is more anxious or is more likely more prone to certain mental health situations and things like that, then it's much more beneficial for them. But, yeah, that's kind of my thought on there.

In terms of mindfulness, I mean, I guess it depends specifically what you mean by that. It could be anything. It could be prayer. It could be. Okay. Yeah. No, yeah. I mean, I certainly pray every day.

And that can be considered my own form of meditation maybe. But it's kind of just a more traditional version of it. And that certainly helps to center me and to give me perspective and gratitude on a daily basis. And also just to, yeah, put up to God the things that I'm worried about. and the things that I'm grateful for, et cetera. But yeah, no, I'm a big fan of mindfulness in assuming that is the opposite of mindlessness, right? You know, not being conscious and not being aware of what you're doing and what you're saying and all of that.

I think it's important to be mindful in general. I think we should be, you know, you don't want to be totally caught up in yourself and worrying and not being able to articulate yourself or say and do things because you're so worried about how other people may interpret it or how it may come across or what their repercussions may be, etc. I think that's taking it too far. But it's certainly good to understand who you are, know your personality, know your proclivities, know your strengths, your weaknesses.

If you have any things that you may be prone to be addicted, you know, get addicted to or any negative habits or things you may have, then it's good to be conscious of those. And I certainly am. I'm very, very conscious of my strengths and my weaknesses, and I'm super aware of how I can come across to people rightly or wrongly. I mean, even if I weren't, like, I get so much feedback on everything I do now and everything I say now that that seems to be the case that I sort of have to. And to be honest, that's something that can be a little bit of a stress these days just because

I'm not used to so many people caring about what I think. No, it's weird. It's cool in a way, but at the same time, it's weird. I mean, so many conversations and arguments and debates and whatever I've had over the past few months have been with, you know, people, you know, could even be loved ones who think I should say things in a certain way or think I should think this or I should phrase it like that or whatever. And I'm kind of like, look, I'm me. Yeah. Right. I can take feedback on board.

Sometimes I'll listen to it. I'll always listen to it. Sometimes I will agree with it and accept it. Other times I will disagree and reject it. But ultimately, I'm like, look, I'm being me. I'm being honest. I'm being authentic. I'm being truthful to myself.

I'm not just saying things to, you know, start crap or rile people up. I'm trying to get people to think. I'm trying to get people to recognize their potential. I'm trying to get people to, you know, question and challenge certain beliefs. I'm trying to empower people. I'm trying to encourage people. And that mostly comes across. there are some people who don't get it or it may it may take them a while to get it or they might not like the way I've said something or the message.

But look, you can't please everybody. You really cannot please everybody. And attempting to is going to make you a very sad person. And that's true. The bigger your voice is. I mean, in some ways, I miss when no one cared what I thought. Yeah, it's funny. You know what I mean?

Like, I miss when no one cared what I thought in a way because I was like, I can just say something. and I don't have to worry about, you know, getting thousands of responses and then sometimes even getting phone calls and emails and stuff of having to explain myself all the time. It's just like, look, this is what I. It was the famous scene in Animal Farm where, you know, Benjamin the donkey, I think the pig character talks to Benjamin, the donkey, and says, you know, you've got such an awesome tale. Aren't you, aren't you lucky?

And Benjamin says, the good Lord gave me a tale to keep away the flies. but I'd rather not have the flies and not need the tail. And I kind of can relate to that. I mean, I had one of my sons, he was upstairs, you know, or just hanging out, recording, getting ready to record. I'm like, do you want to say hi to Zubi? He loves her music. He's a huge fan of yours.

He's like, no, I don't want to be famous. I was like, you don't have to be on screen. Maybe I'll get him off after we're done. But how does that, how does that this rise? I mean, it hasn't been, you know, sudden in the sense, because I kind of see you as an overnight sensation that's been, you know, five, ten years in the making. You've been this workman, you know, slowly building up this brand and it's a mental brand. It's a physical brand.

Most people are lucky if they have half a brand, you know, they're known for, you're known for so much. Do you ever, because you can't train to be like a personality or a podcast host. You know, there's no, there's no major. And I want to get into your formal academic studies in a bit. But, you know, do you ever feel like, you know, this is a very common phrase in academia, imposter syndrome. Like, I'm not really good enough. Like, everyone else is smarter than me.

And the higher you go, the higher the echelon you're at, the more honed and finally tuned the competition is. You know, as you rise in academia, you're competing against people that have been, literally, I've been in academia, I've been, you know, this is my 44th year of school. You know, I've never left school. And I'm with people that have been here for decades as well. well. And how do you, do you ever have that? Do you ever have that kind of inkling notion of anxiety? Maybe I'm not that good. Or do you not? Do you just have this, you know, kind of preternatural ability to just say like, God put me here or whoever put me here and I'm on this

mission and I'm going to accomplish it? The latter. No, I don't, I don't get imposter syndrome. Not if I'm not if I'm doing something that I know how to do, right? Maybe I'd get imposter syndrome if I was doing something that I was super, you know, not rehearsed in and haven't done before and I'm not good at it and I don't have the capability. If it's something that I'm confident about, then, then no. To put it simply. No, I've gotten an extreme level of confidence for things that are within my wheelhouse and within my comfort zone. And that's totally fine for me. And, you know, I like to, you know, like I said, I mean, the tricky part is just dealing with, you know, handling feedback. That's probably the hardest part.

I mean, I've worked for a very long time for people to care about what I think. You know, at the same time, on one hand, it's like, hey, you know, I don't want to complain about people caring about what I think because this is what I've worked for. And I've specifically gone out of my way to build my audience and build my platform, et cetera. but at the same time it's just so hard to you know there there are so many voices both positive and negative I mean most is positive by the way like nine out of ten people who follow me and see what I write etc and listen to my music and listen to my podcast vast majority of them do that because they like me and even if they don't 100% agree with me on everything they know that I'm honest they know that I'm authentic they know that I'm being true to myself and I'm not sort of playing

to, I'm not playing to any given crowd, right? It's why I'm very careful to stay away from identifying as, as some, you know, a follower of some political party or some movement or whatever. Like, I'm free floating, so I can't be held hostage. I can't be held to ransom by any particular group or organization or whatever it is if I don't tow certain party lines. And that's, that's powerful. That actually puts me an extremely powerful position because there are very few people who can do that. The amount of messages, emails, et cetera, I get every single day from people who are telling me like, hey, man, like, I love what you're doing.

I love what you're saying. Like, I don't know if I would be able to do it, but know that I agree with you and I'm supporting you and, you know, keep going kind of thing. Yeah. And it's like, okay, cool. So I'm not, I mean, I don't, it's weird. I mean, I never knew that my. thoughts and my way of thinking were particularly interesting.

It wasn't until like 2018 where I started to kind of talk more about other things going on in the world rather than just using channels to promote my music very directly that I realized like, oh, okay, maybe I'm in a minority of how I think. I thought that everyone or most people thought the way I did about certain things. And I've very clearly learned that this is not the case. And as that happens, I think that's a big part of why my audience is just growing and growing so rapidly by thousands every single day now. I think that is happening because people are hungry for clear thinkers.

People are hungry for people who tell the truth. People are hungry for people who are honest and have values and have principles and have the courage to sort of say what they think, even if there might be some backlash from it. you know, I never knew that that was anything all that special. I get messages from people telling me how brave and courageous, et cetera, I am. And by my own measure, I don't consider myself like super brave or super courageous. I mean, I think soldiers are super courageous. I think people who, you know, I think firemen who run into burning buildings to save people are courageous. I think that policemen who risk their lives every day to keep communities safe or are brave.

Like, that's my bar for brave. like, you know, I tweet something and people are like, oh my gosh, that's brave. I'm like, it's a tweet. It's a tweet. Like, I don't care if some, if people get mad, like, okay, like, you know, I'm not putting my life in danger. Yeah. I'm not like burning, you know, that's the thing.

And I'm like, man, the bar for courage, the bar for bravery is, is kind of low. I'm just here being me. And I don't even share all of my thoughts. There's plenty of thoughts that I sense. That's right. I want to talk about those thoughts that, you know, you might not. get out, but you know, behind me is a picture of an MRI machine and, you know, used to kind of scan the brains of people and see what they, you know, functionally are their brain,

uh, different regions are firing when they, uh, when they actually are considering music or art or something like that. I want to ask you, uh, has your, in your experience, has the, you know, fitness level that you've gotten to or the, you know, healthy, you know, kind of living aspect that you're, that you are promoting and that you embody, have, has that been. benefited, your writing, your music, your creativity. Is there a mind-body create? Like, do you notice it? Or are they basically decoupled and, you know, not really necessarily interconnected? Yeah, they're definitely connected. You know, your mind and your body are not two totally separate entities. And I mean,

for people who don't lift weights, for example, a lot of people don't understand that the primary way that you get stronger is not through building new muscle. It's through training the muscles that you already have to fire more efficiently and to be more effective and to recruit more fibers, your entire nervous system, which includes your brain and then all the nerves that run through your body, that is what the mind muscle connection is. So in fact, by lifting weights, you are improving your cognitive function. These things are not decoupled. It's not, that's why I kind of find it funny that there's this meathead stereotype of people who lift weights or people who train. that they're somehow less intelligent or whatever.

When in practice, I found actually the opposite. And someone who already is intelligent could probably be even smarter and sharper if they did do more physical training. And they did train their body and their brain and nervous systems to be better connected, let alone the endorphins and the stamina benefits and all the other benefits that you gain. So, and I mean, I see this at a small level sometimes. So, for example, if I am stuck creatively, then exercise often helps me to get unstuck. I'm sure some people have witnessed this before, right?

They probably get a lot of their interesting ideas when they're going for a walk or when they're cycling or when they're doing something else. And it sparks creativity. It sparks ideas. It sparks conversations, et cetera. Whereas if you just lie in bed all day, you'll probably find you're not that creative. So I don't know the exact mechanism through which that happens physiologically. But yeah, I think most people are aware of the sort of the power of the, even the half hour walk. Just, you know, whether you're doing some writing or you're working on an essay or you're studying, et cetera, just going for a walk.

You'll come back with a clearer head and perhaps some new ideas. And I look at you and I think in your work, not just physically, but I think about, you know, this notion of cross training, which, you know, became popular when I was a kid. But also, you know, the notion that there's cross-training inter-body system as well. In other words, you cross-training your body, you cross-trained your brain, and there are these interconnections. I want to talk a little bit about your unique perspective on life that you've gleaned. I mean, you've lived so many different places around the world. You've been involved in different cultures and different activities. And one of the places, and I'm not mistaken, was Oxford, where I believe you studied computer science,

isn't that, is that correct? Yeah, that's correct, yeah. Yeah. So at Oxford is one of my close mentors and friends, Sir Roger Penrose, and he's the Rouseball Professor Emeritus of Mathematics. He had, you know, perhaps more than any other person, the greatest influence on my mind, if you will, on the way that I thought as a young scientist, and it really inspired me to both want to become a scientist and also to become a popular science author, as I later did. And I was honored by his endorsement on my book, losing the Nobel Prize became endorsed. The lead endorsement is by none other than Sir Roger Penrose. And he's been to the Arthur C. Clark Center many times. The Emperor's New Mine, which was his famous book from the 1989, it's now, and I can't believe

it's going on. It's fourth decade. It's over 30 years old. And that book really, proposed and explained for the first time this notion of whether or not computers could think and whether or not consciousness was something that was physically manifest or whether it was something, you know, ethereal that we literally could not put our hands on. And one of the topics that he brings up is also from a fellow, I believe he was a Cambridge man, so I don't know if you're entitled to say anything good about a Cambridge, but Alan Turing. And he proposes famous test. And the Turing test is sort of a proposal. Oops, those are your temporary tattoos. Here's the Turing test. You can't really see it. But it basically says that if you put a computer,

you know, that has an artificial intelligence and secluded it from a human being, and you just had the human being typing questions into a terminal, could the human being determine whether or not he or she was talking to a computer or a human being? And if it could pass that test, then it was said that the artificial intelligence could pass the Turing test. What I want to understand from your perspective is, you know, what do you think about artificial intelligence and the rise of computer power? And then the second part is, do you think an artificial intelligence will ever make music as compelling as music such as yourself? Wow. Okay. I'll answer the second half first. And the second half is, well, AI is already creating a lot of music.

particularly in electronic genres, ambient genres, things that don't have lyrics and melody in terms of human voices and lyricism and things like that. Will an artificial intelligence ever be able to rap like me? I don't think so anytime soon. Maybe, you know, in the super duper future, anything is possible. I think in terms of, yeah, you know, melodies and harmonies and synthesized music, then, yeah, it's already. happening and it's going to continue getting better. But in terms of the human ingenuity required to put together interesting hip hop punchlines and stories and puns and witty lyrics and stuff like that and deliver it in a human way, I hope that it's never possible. I hope that it's never possible

because this leads into the first part of the question, which is that I think artificial intelligence is cool. And I think it's exciting. I also think that it's terrifying. I think that it's terrifying. And well, on a lot of levels, on a lot of levels, you know, I have a, you know, maybe, maybe some of this is the religious part of me or the conservative part of me. But I have a concern around human beings playing God too much, right? Like when humans start doing things like trying to become immortal or trying to reprogram genetic codes so people can have designer babies so that you can choose what eye color your baby will have and how tall they'll be when they grow up and whether they'll be a sign. They can have a six pack like you did on your umbilical cord.

Yeah, yeah. Like when humans start to mess with that stuff or even elements of, you know, like even things like what do they call it? like, you know, euthanasia and things like that. Anything that comes to humans playing God, I grow quite wary, this, you know, or trying to create a new species or all of that kind of stuff. I find it very unnerving.

And artificial intelligence past a certain level also falls into that with me. So, for example, you're seeing this crossover between AI and robotics and people are making these, you know, like sex robots and stuff like that, right? Which they're hoping eventually will become so real and so whatever that people, you know, men can have a virtual girlfriend who has a physical form and looks like, looks like and feels like and talks like an actual woman, but is in fact a robot. I just think that's opening a huge Pandora's box, like a crazy Pandora's. box. I think people who are trying to make human beings immortal, right? Because we're not really good at thinking beyond what sounds interesting and what sounds enticing and thinking of what that really would entail, right? If human beings were immortal, that would fundamentally change

everything. Like our entire reality, our entire concept of life, our entire concept of family, and education, where everything would totally change. Like, what do we do now then? Do people still reproduce? What do you do if people, like, you're just opening such a crazy, like, what do you do? What do you do? Like, our entire life is everything in life individually and collectively is based on the idea of us having a certain amount of years on earth.

Okay? So you go to work for, so you go to school for this many decades, then you work for this many decades, then you have some retirement. And here's you do. Like at this position, you learn, and then you earn, and you have a family, and then you grow, and then you raise, and then eventually you die. If you now, let's not even talk about immortality. If you increase the human lifespan to 200 years, what do you do in those 200 years? Do you, are you a teenager now for like 50 years? Right? Do you just behave like a teenager for 50 years? And then you started like, which, which part of that spectrum is the one that gets the extra?

you know, lifespan. Yeah, which is the part that gets the extra 120 year boost. Is it at the end? Is it just like you're just going to be really old now? You know, you'll be like an 80 year old, but you'll just be stuck there now for an extra 100 years or would the part in the middle be longer? And it affects everything. And I just don't think people really, in this scientific excitement, a lot of people don't

seem to think about the potential impact of this. Yeah. Right. If you did become, if you did create an AI and you merged it with robotics and you essentially had what amounts to a person, but it's actually an artificial intelligence, like some black mirror thing, right? So I'm talking to you right now, but you're actually a robot. Right. You know, what about human rights? Do what about rights? Like, do you now have, does the, does the AI get rights? Can they vote? Can you turn it off? Can you turn them off? Yeah. If you want to unplug them, can they defend themselves? Yeah. Right? Like, can you, can you, all of this stuff is like, these are, you know, it's not a thing yet. But if they were to go that far, these all become very, very legitimate questions. And that just, I don't know, I do feel like human curiosity will be the end of humanity. I think science, I think, I don't know, I don't know how human beings are going to go extinct.

But I think it's going to be self perpetuated. I think we will create something eventually. that like, like science will go so far that they'll create, whether this is a weapon or a virus or an artificial intelligence that goes rogue or whatever it is, it's going to be something that human beings and scientists are going to create and it's going to get totally out of hand and it's going to just end up wiping us out, right? Because if, you know, if you take AI to its level, if you had AI, which was smarter than, like literally smarter than people and could continue to get smarter at a very rapid rate,

like what's to stop them from just treating us like, you know, cows or chickens, right? They become the superior, the superior master race. And they might just be like, oh, maybe we'll keep humans as pets or maybe we'll just like get rid of them. Like, we're smarter. Yeah. I mean, I've had, I've had Michael Shermer on the show not too long ago. And he's, you know, he's famous for revising or riffing on, as you might say, one of Sir Arthur C. Clark's famous laws, which was that any sufficiently advanced civilization is indistinguishable from magic,

or technology is indistinguishable from magic. And Schumer's law is any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from God. And here he is a big atheist. But he also, he's more a little more sanguine about AI in that he says, you know, he drives a Tesla. and, you know, it's certainly faster for him to get to downtown L.A. if he just, you know, drives down the sidewalk and the Tesla recognizes that that would involve killing a lot of people, even though. So a lot of its optimization, you know, for a certain metric.

And I always say, you know, these artificial intelligences and machine learning devices are really intelligent, but where do they train on? I mean, are you counting, like they'll say, well, they can solve a problem that would take me, you know, or a human being, 100,000 years to solve. But I'm like, well, but did they also go? and get a PhD for seven years. You know, do they also go through, I mean, they were trained by human beings.

And once they get to a level where they can truly improvise and, you know, create what we would indistinguishably say is a creation rather than just pattern recognition, like the ambient trance or whatever, the music you're talking about before, yeah, if they can do freestyle, if they can do jazz improvisation, I think those would be, you know,

versions of the Turing test. And, you know, when they come out with one that, a song that says, you know, okay data, you know, okay transistor, you know, then you should worry. But I don't think right now. Yeah. No, I don't think right now. But, you know, we have to keep in mind how quickly stuff changes, man. You know, I'm in my, I'm in, you know, my 30s. And just in my own lifetime, I have seen insane technological progress. There is stuff that what we are doing right now in 1990, this would have looked like, you know, witchcraft, right? Like how are two people in different countries in real time, being able to see each other, being able to talk to each other on this thing called the internet and other people can tune in and listen, like all of it, like smart smartphones, right? The little smartphones we're carrying in our pockets every single day.

If you just went back 30 years ago and you said, yeah, in the future, in a couple decades, everyone's going to have this thing and we're all connected and you can do this and you can do that and it has an HD camera and all of this stuff, they'd just be like, what are you talking about? If you showed people the graphics of modern computer games and stuff like that. So in just another 30 years, we already cannot fathom what it's going to look like in 20 years. There's going to be something in 20 years which we're not even aware of and which we're not even thinking about, which everyone is going to use, everyone is going to have it. You're going to question how, just like we now wonder like, oh, how did we do this before the

internet. There's going to be like something else that's like that or other things that are like that and that's going to keep happening and happening and happening. And so in terms of where AI is right now, no, I'm not concerned with where it is right now for the most part. But gosh, 20 years even, let alone 100 years, let alone 200 years. Yeah. Lord knows what kind of stuff people are going to be coming up with. And I think a very interesting question ethically, regardless of someone's beliefs is what should, what, if anything, should be the limits of science, right? Like, is there some stuff that, like, could be done in science possibly that we just should not do? I think that scientist, just speaking for my colleagues, you know, not only, you know, my opinion,

but I think that scientists by our nature are very, you know, very childlike and in a good way. We wonder. We are curious. We puzzle. we like to solve things, but we're also like children in a bad way. We're selfish, we're jealous, we're spiteful. You know, we have all the good, you know, because that's what wonder is, right? When you were a kid and you solved a puzzly, solve a Rubik's cube,

or just how I'll do it again. And we also are anti-wathotitarianism. So I think, you know, one of the worst things to say to a scientist is you cannot do that. Now, that's gotten into trouble, but it's also been a force for good. You know, science, I always say means knowledge. It doesn't mean wisdom. You know, the word for science, sciencia, from Latin, it means knowledge.

And so I think what we would benefit more from is artificial wisdom, not artificial intelligence. And yet so few people have this wisdom. Of course, there are people, I should say, I don't want you to lose too much sleep. There are people that say anything that is not forbidden in science is mandatory. In other words, if a law of nature doesn't preclude something from happening, like, you know, there being some force of quantum mechanics or something that says you can't go through a wall. Well, no, you actually can go through a wall if you have certain properties and if you're a certain size. So that happens all the time.

So anything that's not forbidden is mandatory. So some say that because there's no limit on AI or in the increase in power of computing, et cetera, which is debatable, that actually it's already happened. In other words, we've gone through the singularity. We're in the matrix. We just don't recognize it. This is called the simulation hypothesis, which is a fascinating subject. I love to talk to you about some other time. But basically it posits that we are living in a simulation now.

And the question of the computing power, because something could, it's not forbidden, that we could go down the route that you just described, that means it's already happened. And actually what we perceive as reality, according to these people, the simulation hypothesis, people, Nick Bolstrom is the most famous exponent of it, that it's already happened. So, you know, life's not so bad right now if the simulation is true. I want to take it to a different direction now because I can talk to you all day, but I have to ask these questions because how often do I get a chance to talk to Zubi, right? So first thing is, do you feel that rappers sometimes work against their best interest by

not making things that are kid-friendly or not kid-friendly? I don't mean like pop or whatever, just that you have to put an advisory or a cautionary thing on. Does it like, did you, do you feel like, oh, you're less legitimate because you're not using this, this word or that word? Where do you come down on that? Obviously, you're a clean rapper, but that doesn't mean that necessarily, it could be that you're doing it, you know, for promotion or for sales and they increase your base. How do you feel about, you know, kind of a rap culture and the proliferation of just, you know, as I said, language in particular as a tool in rap culture. Yeah. I think, you know, firstly, I think every single artist and

Every single human being will have a different take on this. With me, I am, I use the same language in my music that I use in the real world. So I don't cuss in real life. If I did cuss in real life, I would probably cuss in my music. Right, but I don't cuss in real life. So I'm not going to cuss in my music because that would be fake. That would be inauthentic. That would be presenting myself as somebody and something that I am not.

So that is the reason for my music being clean in terms of not having profanity because I don't use profanity in everyday life. It's not how I was raised. It's not something I think is good and positive nor necessary. So that's how it is for me. Ultimately, hip hop, rap, and every form of music is a way of an individual expressing themselves. And I'm essentially a free speech absolutist. and I'm not going to police what people can and cannot say in terms of what I think is good or wholesome or positive. That's a whole different conversation.

There's a lot of stuff that is out there, not just in music, but out there in the world, which I do not think is good, nor helpful, nor positive. But it exists and we have free will. we have free choices. We live in relatively free societies. So that comes down very much to the individual. What I would say to rappers and other people though is, you know, whether or not you want to be a role model, once you reach a certain level, then you are. You know, it might not be something that you strive for or something you see yourself as. But, you know, as I do, and I'm not, I'm not perfect at it, you know, by any means, but it's important to think about the impact and influence that we, that we have in the world. And I got into music and rap because I wanted my words to have

an impact and I wanted to be able to get a message across. And I wanted to be able to encourage people and inspire people and empower people. And that's what I tried to do in my music and everything else. And like I said before, you know, not everyone is going to understand it. Not everybody's going to like the methods. Not everyone's going to like the music itself. Not everybody will understand the message. Some will interpret, misinterpret it, etc. That just comes with the territory. But yeah, ultimately it's a hard one. It's not something I take a super strong position on. My super strong position would be on absolutely defending freedom of speech. But that also includes the right to criticize things and to say that I don't think that's good or I don't think that's wholesome or

Why are people drawn to that? I think I've said this in an interview before I think a much more interesting question than why do rappers and entertainers put out certain types of content I think a much more interesting question is why do people like it so much Right people have a consuming like oh, why are these rappers talking about violence and drugs and gangs and why are they disrespecting women? etc. It's like, why don't you ask the women in the club who are dancing to it? Right? Why, why you ask them? Why are you just, why are you rapping to this guy calling you, you know, referring to women as all these things? I think that's a much more interesting question, not why is the rapper saying it? Right. Why are you listening to it and enjoying it and purchasing it

and spending your money on it and supporting them? Because if you're going to do that, of course, they're going to keep making it. Why would they do otherwise? If they're rational actors and they're trying to make money and have a career, then it makes total sense. You know, my last album was full of violence and misogyny and gangbanging and drug talk. So my second album is going to be full of it because one's sold well, right?

So I think that's a much more interesting question and that can go across video games, movies, any other type of entertainment as well. I think that's the more interesting question. Well, that's certainly true. And I think back to like what Bach used to put on all of his music at the top, you know, for the greater glory of God. And, you know, I just, I don't know if Ice Cube is going to be doing that.

But we'll see, we'll see. So I want to finish up a conversation with, I'm going to get the questions that I ask all my, my guests that I'm so blessed to have on the show. First thing, though, I want to ask you, I've got a picture of Oxford, your alma mater in the background. Zubi University, let's make it. What kind of courses would Zubi University offer and why? Oh, wow. Okay, nothing that ends in studies. Everything that ends in studies is gone.

So it would have the sort of core academic disciplines, the sciences, maths, economics, arts, music, etc., certainly. The big things that are totally missing, certainly in school, but also largely in university that I think should absolutely be in there, include physical health, nutrition, and fitness. That should absolutely be there. Economics, finances, money management, interpersonal skills, public speaking, communication, some aspects of entrepreneurship, how to, you know, university shouldn't just assume that everyone wants to get a job.

Should assume that some people want to create the job. Some people want to start businesses. Some people want to be entrepreneurs. nurse. How can someone do what I do? How can, how do you build your own business if you don't just want to go into the corporate world? How else can we prepare young people for that? So those would be a couple of the key things because everyone is going to deal with money and everyone is going to deal with health. So I think it's somewhat criminal that there's not more of a priority on those things in the educational system. So that would be an important part of it. Yeah, it's a message

that resonates a lot with me. And of course, you know, there is the, the value. of the classics. I think we all stand on the shoulders of giants and there's value in all cultures. I don't just mean in the Western civilization. I do think that learning your history, if you're ignorant of your history, it's one of the most gravest lacunae in a person's intellect. And so, yes, to your list, I would only add, you know, just like going deep in the classics. I have no problem with different cultures and studying all the different wonderful contributions that I've been made. So I think that's great. So I want to move to the questions that I ask all my guests, and the first one is going to take us into the future for you personally, morally, ethically, et cetera.

And that's this notion of what's called an ethical will in Hebrew in the name is Zava-a. And it is really meant to convey that which cannot be conveyed through a monetary or material will, which is sort of like what ethical teachings, what wisdom do you want to pass on not just to your offspring. hopefully you'll have. But what would you want to pass on to humanity as a whole in terms of wisdom? That's immaterial. Wow. Nothing that great people haven't said before me. Love your neighbor as yourself, truly.

Be kind to people, treat people fairly, equally, without unfair discrimination, et cetera. And that should be really, really obvious, but it seems like human beings need a constant reminder of that. And then beyond that, it would be recognize that you have potential and strive to fulfill it, because that will make you better. It will make everyone around you better. And ultimately, it will make the world better. If you try to fulfill your own potential in all different aspects, then it gives you purpose. It gives you meaning.

And it ultimately helps not just yourself, but it helps collective society. So I think those would be the two big ones. Those would be the two big ones. Awesome. So our podcast, of course, is called Into the Impossible, which is one of Arthur C. Clark's laws. I'll explain in a second. But when I want to call your attention to now

is the famous movie 2001, A Space Odyssey, which is based on Arthur's book, by the same name. In that movie, there are scenes where there are these monoliths. There are these giant structures of black obelisks or some kind of weird. material that are actually machines that are have been placed by some unseen alien civilization or species so I don't know how much of a sci-fi nerd you are but I'm wondering if Zubi could have his own monolith that he could place in the solar system as a billion year long

time capsule what would you put on it or in it or what would it be about would it have a message would it have a physical object what kind of things do you want to put in a time capsule that could last for a billion years. Whoa. Maybe I'd inscribe that ethical will on it. Okay. Yeah. Very good.

Very good. I like that. I haven't heard that one before. That's good. Yeah. So the last one that kind of relates to Arthur C. Clark is the relative to the, related to the name of the podcast. And one of Arthur's laws was the only way to discover the limits of the possible is to

venture a little. little way past them into the impossible. What I want to ask you is now we're going to go back in time. We just went forward in time. They're going to go back in time. What aspect of life, you know, seem mysterious, maybe even impossible to you, Zubi, until you went ahead and did it? None of it really. Okay. That's fair enough. None of it really. I mean, I'm so ambitious and I have such high, not just expectations, but understandings of what I can possibly achieve, that there's nothing that I do that I thought was impossible.

Otherwise, I wouldn't have done it. So, yeah, I have a near delusional level of self-belief, which some people think is kind of like cocky or arrogant or whatever, but really it's just understanding my capabilities and understanding how high the ceiling is in reality, unless something is quite literally physically impossible, then it can be achieved. Yeah, just remember, the laws of quantum mechanics say,

if it's not forbidden, it's mandatory. Zubi, I want to ask you the last couple of minutes, just the plug zone, anything you want to plug or spin, what's your next book going to be about? It's going to be about the body or the mind? I'd ideally like to tie them together. Awesome. Yeah, I'd like to come up with some kind of,

I'd love to do some kind of book that combines aspects of, philosophy with physical fitness, with mental fitness and mindset, maybe even with some sociopolitical, social commentary kind of stuff in there. I don't know, I don't know how they can all be tied together, but I'd like to tie together all the different things that make up the Zubi brand and maybe put out some, some interesting book with some interesting insights on how I think these things can be connected. Now I'll synthesize together. Well, I once heard the only advice that I heard about books that I took seriously was only write a book if you're the only person who can write the book. And I think the book you just described, you're uniquely capable of writing.

And I want to thank you, Zubi, so much for spending your time. I know you're super pressed. You're so busy. You're doing such great work. I want to thank you. I know you don't like to hear it, but for your courage, for your strength, for your advice, your strong advice that you've given. and inspiring so many people around the world. So Zubi, I want you to have a wonderful evening there in the UK,

and I hope we get to meet in the three-dimensional world before we meet in the Matrix. No doubt, Brian. I appreciate it. Thank you for that kind words. Thank you.