Into the Impossible With Brian Keating - Tom Delonge & Jim Semivan: An Honest Talk About Government Secrets! (#174)

Episode Date: August 13, 2021

Tom DeLonge started To The Stars Academy, a multi-pronged approach to address issues related to UFO/UAPs. TTSA has several divisions including: Science & Technology Division wherein TTSA collects documents and physical materials from public and private sources related to the UAP phenomena to study it and then transitions the transformative technologies behind it to wider applications of public benefit. The company’s consulting and research arm features top former officials from the Pentagon, CIA, Department of Defense, and Lockheed Martin Skunkworks. S.C.O.U.T. & V.A.U.L.T. : division aims to be the world’s most comprehensive intelligence tool for collecting, analyzing, and reporting unidentified aerial phenomena. Anyone will be able to instantly tap into the database via the S.C.O.U.T. mobile app to contribute and access real-time information on the phenomena globally.  The VAULT: will use proprietary AI to find patterns in data from S.C.O.U.T. and cross-reference information from other global databases to find answers in places we couldn’t see before. Entertainment Division: Spanning film, television, books, music, art, and merchandise, To The Stars Entertainment Division creates and licenses original intellectual property by award-winning creators.  Fans of TTSA’s vast entertainment brands find themselves immersed in exciting stories that inspire a new understanding and appreciation for the profound mysteries of our universe. Jim Semivan retired in 2007 after a 25-year career in the Central Intelligence Agency’s National Clandestine Service. At the time of his retirement he was a member of the CIA’s Senior Intelligence Service. Jim served multiple overseas and domestic tours along with senior management positions in CIA headquarters. He is the recipient of the Agency's Career Intelligence Medal. Curt hosts  @Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal  . Please subscribe to his channel! Please join my mailing list to get resources and enter giveaways to win a FREE copy of my book Losing the Nobel Prize: http://briankeating.com/mailing_list.php 📝 Support our Sponsor LinkedIn Jobs! Use this link to post your first job ad for FREE LinkedIn.com/impossiblebiOptimizers for better sleephttps://magbreakthrough.com/impossible 🏄‍♂️ Find me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/DrBrianKeating 🔥 Find me on Instagram at https://instagram.com/DrBrianKeating 📖 Buy my book LOSING THE NOBEL PRIZE: http://amzn.to/2sa5UpA 🔔 Subscribe for more great content https://www.youtube.com/DrBrianKeating?sub_confirmation=1 ... ✍️Detailed Blog posts here: https://briankeating.com/blog.php 📧Join my mailing list: http://briankeating.com/mailing_list.php 👪Join my Facebook Group: https://facebook.com/losingthenobelprize 🎙️Please subscribe, rate, and review the INTO THE IMPOSSIBLE Podcast on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/i... 🎙️Listen on all other platforms: https://wavve.link/into A production of http://imagination.ucsd.edu/ Support the podcast: https://www.patreon.com/drbriankeating And please join my mailing list to get resources and enter giveaways to win a FREE copy of my book (and more) http://briankeating.com/mailing_list.php 📝 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Welcome everybody to a very special conversation between three of my friends, some more older friends than others. But we are undergoing a debate, a conversation rather, not a debate. I think most debates are pointless. But discussion is very valuable. And we've had a lot of interest in getting together members of different communities. communities, communities from academia, represented by me, from the military, represented by Jim, or the government by Jim, and from laypeople who have really been responsible for getting

this excitement, this attention that this subject needs out to the public. And of course, that's speaking of Tom DeLong, who's joining us from To the Stars Academy. Jim is joining us from the East Coast, Jim Sevevan, and my friend Kurt Jai Mungal, who runs a wonderful channel, which you should all subscribe to, called Theories of Everything. I've been a guest. many other guests had on people from Lou Elizondo to many others in this community. I'm more of a neophyte novice and I'm more interested in doing what Galileo said. So my hero, as everybody knows who subscribes to my channel is Galileo, Galilei. Here's a finger puppet.

We're going to get one of Tom and Jim at some point. Galileo said, let us measure what is measurable and make measurable what is not. And I'm pleased to say I have become a member of the Galileo project at Harvard University, which just started just about a couple weeks ago. I'm on their scientific advisory board, and I joined that not because I have so much free time as the Chancellor's Professor of Physics at UC San Diego and the co-director of the Arthur C. Clark Center for Human Imagination,

but because I think this is a very, very important subject, not the least of which, because I hope to learn some of the physics of the advanced future if indeed we are being visited by an advanced extraterrestrial civilization, or perhaps, as Tom calls them, threats in either case, I think it's fascinating. So I'd love to introduce today my guest and first to confirm that my friend Kurt is out there and he can hear us. Kurt, can you please introduce yourself in your channel? Sure. My name's Kurt Jymongle. I'm a filmmaker with a background in math and physics. I'm particularly interested in the theoretical ends of physics, something called theories of

everything. The channel that I host that I host podcasts on is called theories of everything. Essentially, what are the fundamental laws of the universe investigating that as well as the possible connection those laws have to consciousness and free will and even God? My interest in UFOs is because there seems to be an intimate tie between UFOs and consciousness. There's almost a direct tie between physics and UFOs because they defy our known laws. And I'm interested in it. I happen to think that innovation will come from the fringes rather than the center or at least be in formed by the fringes. Great.

And that's that. Yeah. Thank you, Kurt. And I want to remind people who want to leave questions, please put it in the live chat. We are live. It is Thursday, 238 p.m. on the Pacific time zone. Next up is Jim, Samvan, who has a very, very impressive biography. But I thought maybe he could introduce himself and talk about maybe how he came to come to

know Tom. Oh, well, thank you very much. And thank you very much for having me on your program. I've heard about you and I'm really happy to be here. I met Tom, gosh, what it was about five years ago, Tom? There was a group of, I'd say, intelligence community defense department people that studied this topic for a long time, very informally and unofficially. And we had got together.

I got a phone call from one of them one day. he said, do you know this fellow named Tom DeLong? And I said, no, he said, blink one and he said, no, it doesn't ring any bells. He said, well, he wrote a book called Secret and Sheen's Chasing Shadows. And there's a lot of information in that book that is, well, running true to form. And we don't know whether or not some of the information on some of the programs that the U.S. government had was being leaked or not. And we knew that Tom, well, at least I was told.

that Tom had a lot of senior government officials that he was in touch with, his advisors. So we took it upon ourselves to go talk to Mr. DeLong, and I was the one basically asked, why don't you figure it out? You're the operations officer. You know, you did this for a living. So I had a really nice, I flew out to San Diego and had a very, very nice chat with Tom. And it became apparent right away that Tom, not only being a very nice guy, but extremely bright guy, but he had put together all this data that he had been hearing and listening to. And actually two and two came out to four. I was rather surprised. Clearly, there was no leak of a classified information as far as I was concerned.

But Tom sort of hit the nail on the head. So then we had, I think, breakfast the next day with some other people, Dr. Putoff. and I won't name the other people that were there. They may not want their names known, but luminaries in the field. And that's when we started. Tom asked me if we could maybe work with him on Two the Stars, and we agreed to do that. And I think Tom, we sketched out what To the Stars would look like on a cocktail napkin there. And that was it.

We shook hands, and we've been friends ever since. and so it was a lot of fun. Great. That's great to hear. And actually, Jim, I'm sorry, Tom, this will probably hurt your ego a lot. But they, my audience and Kurt's audience are really like, they're impressed that you're on, Tom, but they're like, we really want to hear from Jim. So we got to get that. All of us are the same way.

That's the first time in my life. Anybody wanted to hear from me. But all right. So Tom, you have many distinctions. Of course, your guitarist and you could probably. probably be on the beach here in San Diego. And next time we got to do this in person down up in Encinitas or wherever. But you could spend your whole days, you know, cashing royalty checks from your awesome musical career. And yet you don't do that. You don't

rest on your laureate laurels, so to speak. And you've taken on this new mission. And really, you know, I have to confess, you know, in the beginning when I first heard, I was like, oh, why is this guy interested? He's not a scientist. He's not a military pilot. But you actually made this into an issue. I don't have to say more than almost anyone in popular culture, you've made this an issue. Why is this so important to you? You know, I've always been fascinated with, like, kind of why we're here and what this is all about. Anybody that has any kind of similar wiring to me would understand, you know, growing up in a broken family and, like, I got kicked out of high school, you know.

And I was just around a lot of bad, tough kids. And I and my parents didn't get along, you know, and I just looked around a lot. And I just said, this isn't make any sense to me. Like, really, like, somehow by accident or. some weird design. Like, I'm just supposed to only care about my bickering family and my school that I didn't really fit into and go and get a job that I hate. So I kind of started early on on a quest of like not being like my parents, you know, and working for myself. And I was, I was an artist. I wanted to create things. But as an artist, you know, you want people to

emotionally get moved by the art that you're creating. The whole good job of an artist is to digest the world and with your point of view, you kind of regurgitated back to somebody, then they get to digest it and hopefully they see other points of view. I mean, that's what we do. That is our job description. So when I looked around, I was like, none of this makes sense. You know, what really moves me would be like, what's the layer deeper than all this? And that's when I started realizing that there's an entire like kind of esoteric study out there that deals with consciousness and UFOs and, you know, cosmology and all these different things. But, But really when you get into UFOs, at first it's fascinating.

At first, it's like, oh, my God, conspiracy theory, you know, this is fun. And then you start kind of going, wait, some of this shit is like real. There's no way, there's an astronaut here. There's like a president. There's like, you know, director of the CIA or some admiral. And you're kind of going, wait a second. And then you start diving deeper. And then when you dive deeper, I always tell people it's, you're not studying like events, really.

I mean, those are fun and you get into those the first few years. But really, if you study the first few years. But really, if you study this subject, you're, like Jim said, it's like, you know, you're getting into quantum mechanics and you're getting into consciousness and you're looking at archaeology differently and petroglyphs and stuff. And you're starting to really soak in all the branches of the tree. And it seemed to me that all those things combined, it really created a glue, in my mind at least, that tied together so many disparate ends of what mankind is all about and what's been going on. almost fit like a perfect puzzle piece. Not that I know everything. I don't know if anyone does, but for me, and it just became very evident that this was like, oh my, this is a puzzle piece that fits. It fits in all these things that I grew up, you know, having interactions with

from like religion to government national security stuff to advanced technology stuff, to the history of mankind and so on. And I'm still on that quest. But on another note, it's the only thing that ever took me out of the maddening kind of obsession of trying to write a better song. Like when you're in a band, it's, or you're painting a painting, any kind of art, it's only going to be as good as how much time you can put into it. And so what you end up doing is putting all your time into it, especially if you work for yourself. It's like your wife's like, join the family and you're playing guitar at one in the morning, go, no, I've got to figure out this melody. Well, this is like the one thing that got me out of that.

because I need to learn all the time. I don't really like predictable movies. I don't like normal fiction books, but this was like a fiction story, but that has a bunch of things you can learn. It's like it's just as fascinating, but you can really enrich your mind and soul by diving into some of these branches of the tree. So here I am 20 years later. I put some good pieces together.

But as Jim will tell you. tell you the first day I'm at Jim. I was like, thank God. You know, he's like, who are you? And what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm looking for somebody to work with me. I think we can do something great for the world. I just don't really know how to do it by myself. I need, I need some help. And thankfully, Jim and a bunch of the people that he knew and was working with felt the same way. It's, it was just a good time to come together. Do you ever get, you know, kind of the, I'm sure you've had your share of negative influences, maybe people that don't like you. And, some way for your music or your or this research. Do you find any commonalities, though, in kinds of

the support or maybe the negative attention that you get? Because, you know, on the face of it, yes, there are aspects of it. But I would think naively, scientists, pilots, et cetera, we'd be the most interested. But you made the interesting point that it's part of culture. And people don't appreciate that science is a form of culture too, equal in every respect, in my opinion, to arts and, you know, and letters and so forth. So do you find commonality there, Tom, just from the two different careers that you've had? I do. I mean, you know, it's funny.

Like one of the, one of the, when I was working with, and I was building relationships with people before I knew, Jim, that were, you know, high-ranking former government officials or military people and stuff. I remember I wanted to thank them for their time listening to me, you know. And so one way to thank them that I came up with was in the government kind of military industrial complex world, they all create these challenge coins. Have you ever seen the challenge coins where it's like... Yeah, I've got one here.

Yeah, I've got one. You got one there. Well, for the people watching, it's like, you know, these little coins that have like your platoon name on there, maybe the things you believe in, maybe it's the operation you are a part of. Yeah, here's one from my buddy in Afghanistan. Yeah, they all make them. There you go.

So these little coins, you bring them out of bars and you owe each other drinks, depending on who's got a better coin or whatever. So I decided to make a challenge coin and I put on the, the vitrival. Rubian man, which was Da Vinci's, you know, two arms, two, you know, or four arms, four legs kind of thing. But what that stood for was art and science. And what I really liked about that, and this all comes full circle to your question, was art and science to me was something measurable, was something that's infinite. You know, it's consciousness and zeros and ones to some degree. But when they come together, I think for the longest time, we've always separated consciousness

and things that we don't understand. And we put it in religion. We just go, that's God's world. so we can't know that. We can't measure that. Yeah, there you go. And so consciousness in metaphysics and things we don't understand was supernatural, paranormal. And it was in the realm of the Old Testament or something, you know, or other religions. But the Vitruvian man, this idea of bringing consciousness and science or art and science together, because art is really just a stream of consciousness.

You're making things up. So the question is, is where you get in that? You know, you're some type of antenna. and you're pulling it from consciousness in my view. So I use this on the challenge point to say, look, as an artist and as something that's scientifically based here, if we can merge these together, the future of science, I think, is going to be once we understand consciousness, we take the realm of what used to be all religion or something and we merge it with science and now we got like this theory of

everything. So I wanted to say that my project was that. It was an artist working with things that are tangible and measurable. And so I made these challenge coins. I put the Vitruvian Man on there and I gave them to everybody. And for me, I got the same rush as being an artist, but with this, because I really felt that I was putting something together with the point of view that people really haven't been able to spend time with or study or look at or notice. And it became kind of like the guiding North Star, the light, you know, was the merging of these two things. of these two things.

And it's just been a hell of a lot of fun along the way. I believe it. Kurt, would you like to ask, you had some comments and questions for Jim? Do you want to take it from here? Yeah. First,

I want you, Tom and Jim and the audience to know that I'm not a skeptic nor a debunker. I'm more of a, I'm curious and I'm clueless. When I research this topic, I'm just baffled and bewildered constantly. I don't know what to think.

So when I spoke to Travel Walton recently. Some people thought that I was a skeptic. That's actually not true. I'm asking detailed questions because I want to know what was the air like on this alien ship. I want to know what did the glass rod feel like? Was it heavy? Was gravity the same and so on? So if I ask you detailed questions, please, it's out of a place of love. I'm curious to know about Skinwalker. But you're asking Jim, right? I can ask whoever wants to answer. What's going on as Skinwalker? And what's its connections to,

what's its connection to UFOs? Well, I am by no means an expert on Skinwalker Ranch. Tom and I know all the people that are involved, George Com, Kelleher, and George Knapp, Kama Kelleher. I've never met Mr. Bigelow. I was supposed to at one point, but it never happened. but there is I think that that's a fascinating case. But I don't know whether I can actually discuss that in any kind of meaningful way because

I wasn't there and I wasn't part of it. I read the book like everybody else. John Alexander is a dear friend of mine and he was there and we talk about it quite a bit. I think what had happened there was true and accurate and real. but I also believe that when you go looking for the phenomenon, it basically doesn't show itself. It doesn't like to do that. And after 40 years of studying that, you know, it's that low observability thing going on,

you know, why we can never get a good picture of UAP. For some strange reason, it doesn't want to go there. So you mentioned earlier, your dazed and confused. Well, yeah, I'm about as dazed as confused as you are by the whole thing. thing. I have my own opinions based on what I know and based on what I've read. But Skin Walker is fascinating. I, you know, from everybody I know that has been there and done that, including some people that were not mentioned in the book, which I don't want to get into, but it's a pretty serious place and a lot of serious things happened there. But I'll let Tom go and talk more

about that. Sure. You know, what I find fascinating about Skinwalker is that, um, you basically have the convergence of multiple, you know, things happening, you know, so when you look at UFOs, you can find stories where somebody might come out and their cattle are missing or there's, um, you know, a cattle mutilation where blood is gone or parts of the jar dissected, maybe an eyeball's gone. maybe the reproductive, reproductive organs are gone or whatever. And a lot of like really weird things about it. Like maybe the cuts are in between cells.

Maybe there's no vascular collapse. Maybe it happened within 10 minutes when the farmer turned around or something. Then you have people that might have seen lights in the sky the day, the night before when it happened. Or, you know, then there's people that have paranormal feelings. They might have seen like, you know, some type of entity that's in, visible or something, they weren't quite sure. Then you have poltergeist events and other houses, whatever. But what's weird about Skinwalkers, they were all happening there.

You know, so you have all these things happening in one location. But as Jim said, it's like super elusive. It's almost like it'll watch you be there for a week. And then the night you're driving away to go home, it's like you look in your rearview mirror and there's something crazy, you know, and it almost toys with you. That was something that they all seemed to say. Like it seemed like it knew that you wanted to. see something you want to do something, whatever.

What I find fascinating is that you have this one location where so many things are happening and it's documented by a bunch of government people, a bunch of PhD scientists, a bunch of people that have lived there. And not only documented over like a few months, we're talking like decades, you know. And it's kind of a hot spot where you can kind of dig into trying to find, why are they all happening at this one location? And what interests me is that I think it gives us a potential pathway to discuss some alternate candidates for where they're from or what they're doing or how it all works. Like I think most people like to think of UFOs is they're coming from another planet.

You know, we found an exoplanet and it's coming there and how do they travel? Well, they could do it in 30 years if they go fast. Well, the data doesn't seem to suggest that really. It's more of what's happening at Skinwalker where it seems like it's more about frequencies and dimensional or they materialize. It's almost like they're displacement craft that displaces our time like a submarine would in the ocean. And that was a lot of what Dr. Hal Pudoff worked on on ATIP was understanding the attributes of the propulsion and the science that they're using. And I think once you think about UFOs using that kind of a technology, then it's kind of like, well, if they do that, if they use that, that means there's things that are adjacent to us that we don't see, we don't understand, but are like right here.

And every once in a while, they can kind of cross over. Is it because we're aware of it and can see it and that opens it? Or is it because it's a geomagnetic area where those types of things have an easier time coming through? or is it everywhere and we just think it's in one location? I don't know. I mean, there's a story that even happened there where they like, you know, they were there. And they, and you're talking about government grade PhDs where they watch, you know, something in the atmosphere open up and something come through, not sure what it is.

And it was a huge event. So they run down to grab the cameras and see what was on the cameras. They open up these locked boxes and then like all the electronics are missing in the cameras. And they're like, what? like these were locked up and who took it's like a game and so it gets really interesting where is it a game i don't know but it might be a consciousness thing and so i get passionate about a place like that because it gives you the ability to do to really jump into some wild stuff i mean one of the scientists there was walking through a field and they basically saw um you know they saw

they walked past um like a cow or something and then they turn around it was gone And then like 10 minutes later, they're like, where is it? And they turn back around and there it is on the ground, just out of nowhere with like two broken legs. So they run into. It might be alive. It was no, it was alive, you know. And then they run back into the house to go grab a gun or something to take care of it.

And when they come out and out has four broken legs, you know, or something. It's like creepy and like causing alarm because number one, it makes no sense. Number two, it's like it's happening so quick. that they can't even, and I got family showing up from the beach, you know, you see people behind me. But you mentioned the beach. They all went to the beach earlier. But what it seems to be is that it's, it's, you know, an issue with time and an issue with moving it like from here to here where we can't see it and back. And then people will see crap.

And then, I don't know. It's just wild. And it's so fascinating. And I always tell people in Hollywood, because, you know, two of the stars is getting into making, like, movies and TV series and documentaries and stuff. And I just go, you don't need to sensationalize this stuff. You don't need to come up with, like, science fiction type, you know,

ideas to make it intriguing. I mean, it is. It's wild the way it is. You don't have to do much to it. Your summer starts now with Memorial Day deals at the Home Depot. It's time to fire up summer cookouts with the next. grill four-burner gas grill on special buy for only $199 and entertain all season with the Hampton Bay West Grove seven-piece outdoor dining set for only $499. This Memorial Day get low prices guaranteed

at the Home Depot. While supplies last, price invalid May 14th or May 27th, US-only exclusions apply. See Home Depot.com slash price match for details. Have you come up with any theories as to why cattle mutilations occur? Me personally. or heard any that you found to be interesting, incredible. Well, I wouldn't have any science to back anything up. So I can tell you I'm a dreamer, you know, so I can come up with a bunch of ideas. I have some.

You know, I've heard scientists discuss, you know, tracking our food supply, you know, trying to see if there's things that are in our food supply that are affecting kind of how we evolve. Okay, that wasn't interesting. And there's a lot more to it, but it's not my place to get into that. I've heard people discuss that, you know, it's genetics or something. It's understanding a bit more about, you know, the life here on Earth or whatever. Then you get into way more far out stuff is maybe it has something to do with genetics with man because maybe bovine type samples deal with, you know, the blood or the, I don't know,

like the glands or something to do with, you know, people want to go way out and be science fiction about it. But I just don't know. And I think, I just think that what we are hearing, is that people are seeing lights and craft in the sky in areas where they find these things. We know they're happening and have been happening for decades and decades, like not just like a few, like thousands, you know, but no one really knows the reason why maybe someone somewhere in some basement knows, but I don't want to pretend that I know because I don't.

But I do know people been studying this for like 30 years. And they all tend to say the same thing. It's like it's happening in a way that doesn't look like we can pull, off what we're finding. It just looks way. I mean, they found cattle with organs like their heart missing, but no incisions anywhere. Like somehow they reached in and just grabbed it and pulled it out, you know, so it's like, what does that mean? What is that? I don't know. But it's, it's wild for sure. There doesn't seem to be any. Brian, I muted Brian. Oh, sorry. Yeah. So how do you take the reaction in terms of, you know, people coming and saying you are basically a repository for people to come forward,

to come out, et cetera, that, you know, is sort of a unique role for you, Tom, right? It's, it's, now you're almost like a priest in confessional and, and people coming. Exactly. I mean, how is that? How do you deal with that pressure? How do you deal with the notion of, you know, kind of this, this? You've become the face and symbolizing a lot of this. And there's a wonderful clip that one of your fans put out on Twitter I saw yesterday or a couple

they, you know, it's like what you said in 2017 on, you know, Joe Rogan show and then like slowly, as they say, you know, first creative ideas are dismissed as lunacy, then they're mocked, then they're ridiculed, then they're accepted as trivial and known all along. So now that these, you know, Pentagon report, which we have to get into, and maybe I'd love to hear get Jim's take first on that. Jim, when this came out, did you feel like it answered more question? For me, if I felt like an answer more question, I mean, honestly, I am a skeptic, I have to say. a scientist, there's no one, Tom and Jim, Kurt already knows this, that would be more kind of thrilled, delighted to skip the line, as my friend James Altitcher says, and go from the physics of 2021,

to the physics required maybe 21, 21, or beyond. I would love to do that. First of all, I'd get, you know, multiple Nobel prizes. Second of all, I would satisfy the personal curiosity that sounds like Tom and Jim and Kurt. We all have to understand the nature of reality, because let's face it, guys, we're only here for a short amount of time. We're given maybe the biblical age of 120. That's about it. But if we could skip that line, avoid death, avoid, you know, interstellar, you know, kind of have these secrets to these advanced technologies and to advance knowledge.

That to me is the pinnacle of what Homo sapiens could achieve. Jim, when you look at this, when you hear these complaints and so forth, people being skeptic, do you feel like skeptics have a point? I mean, are we just like kind of curmudians? and we're just not hearing the truth that you guys are telling. Or, you know, you have feet in both worlds. You're in the military and the government, but you're also in the community that Tom's in. What do you feel is the right approach here?

Believe everything, believe nothing. How do you split those atoms? Yeah, I mean, that's an excellent question. And I think you just said it, you know, believe everything, believe nothing. I'm not a skeptic by the stretching imagination. And when the, I was not surprised in the least when the, when the UAP Task Force report came out, I understood what it was going to be. It's just an ambration. It was an outline of what they're planning on doing.

There was no way they could put together any kind of substantive report, any kind of intelligence assessment based on this in the short amount of time that they had. And they only took, you know, 144 incidents. My God. I mean, just from the Navy, I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of incidents that have happened that incredible witnesses have seen. So I wasn't surprised. I thought the writing in there was obviously done by the DNI. It was very, very well crafted, very tight writing. I think they took some pot shots at the Air Force, which I'm glad they did because I don't know where the hell the Air Force has been in all this.

Well, actually I sort of do, but the most important piece I felt was the Deputy Secretary of Defense memo. They came out at the same time that was issued on July 25th. That memo came out and said, knock it off, cats out of the bag. We are going to go after this. We're going to develop requirements and requirements that basically means it's an intelligence term for questions. We're going to develop these questions. everybody's going to have to answer them and we're going to put money towards this. We're going to put people towards this.

That's huge. That's absolutely huge. And so I thought I was very, very happy when I saw that. Now, when they talked about in the report, you know, they had these areas, these categories, you know, about what they think it could be, you know, air clutter and what have you. And then going down, it could be this. It could be that. It could be the Russians or Chinese. Look, I've studied Russian and Chinese high technology for my whole career.

These UAPs or whatever the hell they are. I mean, we call them UAPs. We really don't know what they are. They're not Russian and they're not Chinese and they're definitely not ours. They're just not. That leaves nothing left except they're something else. that something else is, I don't know. I was on TV a couple of weeks ago when I called it. I was prodded by the producers that say something. Say something. I called it a non-human technology.

And I guess that's the best way I can go. But I don't think science right now has the ability to look at this in a way that they want to look at it, and it's not their fault. And it's because, you know, there's no reliability here. There's no predictability here. This phenomenon plays with us. It teases us. It cajoles us. It gets close, but you can't get too close to it.

Sometimes it appears to people up close and personal. Other times it doesn't. But if you notice with the Navy, I mean, you know, what is it actually saying? I mean, you know, are they trying to communicate with this or are they basically just trying to affect us socioculturally? When you talked earlier about cattle mutilations, hell yeah, cattle mutilations are real. Don't really know what's happening with them. But when you look at what the real effect of that is, the real effect of that is, it's all of us sitting here and looking at that. And all of a sudden, our cultural norms and social norms, we did, if things change, things change.

I know Jack Valle talks about this quite a bit, and I'm a huge fan of his. Are they here to basically change us? Are they more of a control mechanism? And the answer is that we don't know. We have tons of questions, zero answers. I think science has a huge, huge way ahead of them. I mean, it's going to be very, very difficult. But I don't think we have any options except to investigate this.

But it's clearly not human. And Kurt, you've had Jock on. What are your takes? And also Kevin Neuth, who's a physics professor in New York State, talk about your paragrenations, your explorations of this phenomenon, Kurt. What have you kind of surmise as a physicist, as a scientist? What kinds of thoughts do you have about approaching this from the colleague of, as you know, our colleagues are very skeptical of some of these kinds cattle mutilation?

What does that have to do with physics? What does that have to do with aliens? and other planets and where would they come from? How would they get here? How got these, anyway, Kurt, my brother, tell me, what do you make of your explorations of this as a topic? How have you been influenced, changed, perhaps not mutilated, but how has your mind gotten mutilated in a certain sense?

Where do you stand now? Well, I'm probably much like most people here used to be a staunched, skeptic, an ardent one, an arrogant one, not saying that you're one, you're not arrogant at all, Brian, but most are. say. That's not true. That's not true. And now I don't know what to think. I don't know if you've played this game called Metal Gear Solid, but at some points you get, when you get spotted, there's an exclamation point that goes over the guard's head. I feel like that all the time,

just constantly, what the heck is happening? What the heck is this? What does this mean? How does fit with this? So I don't know. I don't even know if there's one alien species, if it's a subspecies, if there are aliens to begin with, if it's multiple races, if it's fact, I don't know. Can I add something to this conversation? Let me give you the government perspective on this. As an intelligence officer for a long, long time, I will tell you that back in 1945, actually, you know, this phenomenon has been seen since the beginning of time.

All major religions have talked about it. We started seeing more of it in the 40s, actually during World War II and then later on afterwards. when General Twining came out in 19, I think 47 and basically said, look, these are real, these are serious, we're going to have to look at it. And then we had Project Sign, Project Grudge, and then, you know, the, you know, Blue Book. And then we had all these other things, the Condon Report and what have you, where they basically came out and said, screw it. We're not going to do this anymore. Absolute nonsense. There's no way that the Air Force or the intelligence community is going to give up on something like this.

That is a very, very real phenomenon that we don't, I don't think it's a threat at all, to be honest with you. I just, I think it's totally indifferent to who to hell we are. But nevertheless, it has to be looked at. The military and the intelligence community does not ignore that. They will not ignore that. And, you know, and it's always going to be bubbling up in the background. It may be in some deep black program, some hidden someplace.

But I would be shocked and surprised if that is. what's going on, that we haven't been seriously studying this for the last 70 or 80 years. Yeah, there's no way. There's no way. When you look at the Stargate program, that was a direct reaction to Soviet experiments in psychic phenomena. They were doing that. We had to figure out why they were doing it and what they found out. And I can tell you other stories, I mean, crazy technology that you did think didn't know exists, but actually do exist. and you find out that other other countries are working on them or trying them and what had to look there's a huge national security element in all this too so i mean you know nobody wants to share this data publicly because as they say you know you tell your friend you tell your enemy so a lot of that stuff is hidden and i i don't blame the government for hiding a lot of this stuff either if there is a true and honest national security uh problem associated with this but you know i i just find it extremely difficult uh with skeptics who tell me like when they see this stuff and they go, well, I don't know what it is.

Look, that's agreeable. I mean, I don't know what it is either, but it is there. And no one has an answer to it. And please don't tell me it belongs to, you know, China or Russia or some other. That's just nonsense. I think that was an out that the UAP task force had to use. I mean, once you've read the literature, once you've been read in it, it's read in on some of these programs, I'm sorry. It just, I'm not a skeptic that it exists.

I just don't know what the hell it is. When I look at that data and, you know, I'm going to ask each of you to steal man your, quote, opponent's perspective. In other words, what's the best argument you've heard counter to your own position, Jim and Tom, especially? But before I do that, I want to just take a reset and tell everybody who we're talking to, Tom DeLong, of course, at Two the Stars Academy and also Jim Simovan of To the Stars Academy, former CIA employee and Kurt Jemungle, host of the theories of Everything channel,

which has done Yeoman's work, Kurt, you're really a role model in many ways to many YouTubers. We've got a lot of people listening, Jeremy Reese in the chat room and many other people. But Tom, I want to ask you, when I hear talk to my fellow scientists about this, and I talk to somebody who's a member of, I don't know if you're familiar with this organization called the Jason's. Jason's secret. I'm sure Jim knows about them too.

So they actually meet here in San Diego once a year, at least they did before COVID. And they tell me, I said, wouldn't you think like the best and brightest would be at least interested and involved in this? And they said, no, we're not, they haven't asked us. The government hasn't asked us to investigate it. We're not just going to go off and investigate stuff on our own. Why would this organization, assuming he's telling me the truth and she, there's actually multiple people, members of the Jasons have told me the same thing. No, we're not investigating these phenomena. Is that insulting to you?

How do you take that? Is that proper skepticism? Is that up to counterproductive? In my experience. in my experience, even the people that are very much involved on this stuff would tell you that exact same answer. You know, Jim can explain security clearances and national security stuff. I can't.

I'm not, I don't know that kind of stuff. I just know through osmosis kind of how it's treated. But when I first met a bunch of people that were involved on this subject before I even knew, Jim, I remember specifically, you know, I was in one place. And, you know, there's a big big wig I was talking to. And he goes, you know, we don't ever look at that subject. We don't care about that subject. There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that any of that is even real.

Yada, yada, yada. And I was like, okay, thanks. And then I left that person's company or that person's table and went right outside the door. And there's these other two guys that worked directly under them that said, we want to talk about this. And they talked about it for an hour, you know? And it was like nothing classified. They can't go there.

But it was just like some people are more open to it. And some people aren't. But the people that are dealing directly with something that's classified, they're never going to even talk about it. As far as the best and the brightest, I guess that's subjective because, you know, who knows if the Jasons really are or not. I've always heard that they kind of were, you know. But I think that, you know, you have incredible people at the National Academy of Sciences.

You have incredible people at the national laboratories. You have incredible people at the Lockheed Martins and the Bowings and they're everywhere. And I think that it's not exclusive that we need this one group of scientists or whatever. Who knows if something's been studied for decades and decades, they're going to choose people that are the best and the brightest that can keep their mouths shut because it probably has these big national security elements that come with it. And they're going to find people that bring value in ways that they need. It's not just like a blanket like you're a great scientist.

We're going to bring you in. I mean, as far as I know and what I've learned, you know, black programs don't really work that way. But I'll tell you directly, directly, direct experience that in the very beginning, everyone said that to me. And because they don't need to open up a conversation with me. They don't need to talk about it. They're not going to get anything out of it.

If anything, they're just going to get in trouble or make them feel like they need to go back and report a conversation where something slipped or something, or something. So I just don't think that's the right route. But what I will say is I talked to the former head of the task force before it's in its current form, however that works. And I asked him, I said, what's the biggest change now that we were able to bring the UFO subject out into the mainstream? And he told me, he said, for the first time ever, we can talk about this in the halls of the Pentagon. Up until this point, you know, it was always in a skiff underground somewhere. Yeah, I heard similar things from Alexanditrich, who's a renowned fighter pilot who was involved along with Commander Fravor and the so-called Tick-Tac incident.

And one very valuable thing that this is elucidated is the breaking down those barriers, the insecurity, the, you know, humiliation, the kind of taboo for military pilots who are, you know, heroes far beyond what I'm capable of doing. And they volunteer to put their lives in the line. if these are military threats or even weather balloons or whatever, we owe it to our war fighters to make sure that they're safe and secure. So taking away the taboo has been incredibly important for me. Kurt, do you have some questions from your audience or from you that you want to pose because these gentlemen have a hard cut out in about 40 minutes, 30, 40 minutes? You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet.

How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your oceanfront room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app

and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Yeah, there's this person named Red Panda, Kuala. Tom, have you seen the documentary on yourself? I'm not. Okay.

A wonderful, concise 60-minute summation of your work in this UFO topic. And here or she asks, what was it that Tom was told that kept him up for three days? Oh, well, I don't talk about that. But there was. I remember having discussions, the company that I keep with people like Jim, they just, you know, and how. And the way their minds, what's really cool about Jim, by the way, is that I've learned how to parse information, a lot better. I'm not going to ever be, you know, him. You know, this guy is master spy, you know,

but I don't, I don't, I learn a lot. Like, like learning how to be a little bit more skeptical with information, being able to put these things together and think differently. But they're all such, um, really big thinkers and they don't just grab onto a piece of data because it exists and says, oh, this matters and this means everything. It's very much like forming patterns and analyzing over time. So I remember like hanging out with all these guys in the beginning. And one of the bigger things was just about me understanding the stakes of this because you come into this as a, and this kind of answers your question about like what keeps me up at night or what kept me up when I was discussing things was not understanding the stakes, not really coming to grips

with this being real. Like it's one thing when you when you see a video or you read it in a book, you know, and you're like, whoa, this is all, you know, but you don't know if the videos real. That's why it was so important with the ones we brought out had chain a title all the way back to the DOD. So we knew those were real. It wasn't just like it was on YouTube and leaked. So it's the idea of bringing forth things that you know where they come from and you really take it from that point forward and start getting really good data and evidence on people's encounters and the stakes that come with that. And when I've talked about this as a threat, you know, that's just my word. right? I mean, I would never know the way the government treats that. That's not my, my zone, obviously. But for me and my own personal research, if something's been here for a long period of time, and it really is showing up in people's bedrooms or in front of an F-18 or on a petroglyth wall or in an ancient text down in the archives of the Vatican or whatever it might be, it's obviously doing something. And it's obviously having an influence. And it might only be an influence on where we end up as mankind. Or it might be an influence

to keep us suppressed in a weird way to where they can take advantage of something, who knows. But it's here for a reason, and it's not really being forward about its intent, but we do know that we've been dealing with it for a long period of time. And so when you start coming to the way they think and the stakes involved and the reality of it, and I start hearing about these encounters from the people that were there, I remember in regards to the question you asked, I was out in Colorado Springs and I had a meeting with a couple generals and we were just shooting the shit about all this stuff. And something was discussed that, you know, it wasn't some big classified thing. It was more like things that people are having happened to them or witnessing and it's an issue.

And I remember waking up in the little night and just go, I was like, you start to look around you, not really. trust your environment. You know, it's like, whoa, like, really? Like, this is real. Like, my mom is a, is really religious. Like, she's like a born-again Christian and hardcore fanatic, you know, religious woman. And I grew up in a household. My dad wasn't.

So that was part of, like, the big budding of the heads. And it was a broken home. But I remember thinking at that time frame when I was talking about some of these things that I so want to discuss where I couldn't sleep very well was, I was like, if my mom really believed that Jesus is real and would show up in her room and float towards her with a crown of phone, I mean, she would break, she would have a heart attack. That would scare her, even though she bases her whole life on it, like who she hangs out with, where she goes on weekends and weeknights, who she might date or marry again. Every call she calls me, she's praying.

But if she, so she believes this viscerally. But if she saw something like that, it's a different deal once it's like really real. It's not just reading it in a book and believing in it. And that's kind of what I came to with the whole UFO thing. It wasn't just like believing it. It was like, oh my God, this is real. This is like real. Not just that we're talking about it and we saw it on the news or we saw it on YouTube. It's like when you're alone in your bedroom in the middle of the night, you got to look around and go, who knows what can happen. And that's kind of where I've landed over the past few years. It's just like going anything as possible. Does your mom, think that what you're doing is an act of evil or you're studying evil, that you shouldn't be

doing what you're doing? She loves me too much and is too supportive to have that thought. So in her head, it's like this, it's probably a crisis of conscience, you know, where it's like, these don't all map up, you know, but this is what I tell people. And I really believe this. I'm not speaking for Jim or the company. This is just my own personal thing. I have a feeling that when we, when we really learn about consciousness and we really learn, learn kind of what these things are, this phenomena is, I think we're going to, like I said earlier, we're going to merge this metaphysical consciousness type of science with normal science. And once it becomes all one, we're going to look at, we might look at religions differently,

but I think everyone's going to be able to keep the things they love, which is really not all the dogma and the stories that we argue about, but when it comes down to, you know, the father, the son, the Holy Spirit, or Godhead, your soul and the physical body, it's all. the same three things, that Trinity thing, is like kind of everywhere. It's all about you as a person with your connection to consciousness, you know, the father, the son, the Holy Spirit kind of thing. So I think what will happen is everyone's so scared that religions will crumble. And I'm kind of like, no, it's going to be the great equalizer, that the only three things that matter in all of these things is us as a physical person with our connection to something bigger. And so I don't think

people are going to be alienated. I don't think they might, you know, be bummed that the story of the locusts coming out didn't apply, you know, or something. But I think that the things that matter stay, which is, you know, I used to go to my mom and say, like, you know, I go, why are you a Christian? Like, what is it? I know it. I've seen things. I've felt things.

I just know in my heart. But then, you know, and she goes, and we've healed the blind. We've prayed and they can heal the blind. That's happened. I'm all, but that's happened in Islam too. It has. So why is it happening in other religions and here? And my whole point was it's not about the stories.

It's physics. And people like yourself are going to help us all understand that here in the future. You know? So Jim and Tom, a question from Sarah Skulls, who's a friend of mine who wrote a book, they are already here about, in part about Tom. She's a wonderful soul. She asks about, you know, where do things go from now and here maybe now that Elizondo, Luis Elizondo and Chris Mellon aren't part of TTSA?

How does that affect your mission, guys? Is that, is that, you know, should that, how should that be interpreted? You know, if you were not being, you know, charitable, you might say, oh, that's a, you know, that's a sign they have internal strife. And, you know, what, what were, but is there some other explanation or, you know, where do you see things going now that these two very prominent, you know, supporters of the narrative that you guys are also, you know, supporting have departed from TTSA at least. I understand from Jim that you guys are in good terms. But where do you go from here? Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot, there's so much going on. Number one, the pandemic hit, we're a startup. So we're not giant, you know, we have more people from the government that want to be a part of what we're doing than we have space for. So that's not the issue. With those people in particular, when the pandemic hit, it really caused us as a young company to choose one lane rather than trying to do multiple lanes. And during the pandemic, the Defense Authorization Act, they didn't, they couldn't get it passed. They couldn't fund any more research projects. with new companies, new programs, and we were a new company with a new program.

So we were kind of stuck in this like quicksand of waiting and waiting to try to get some things off the ground. But where we had a, you know, a ton of traction was in the entertainment part where we already had product selling. We had movies coming. We had TV series coming. And so it just created an opportunity to focus the company and get everything really streamlined to grow quickly without trying to dilute ourselves and play.

places where we can't compete with a Lockheed Martin or whatever, but we really wanted to get these things off the ground, some of these early programs, some of which Hal is still chasing, some of which, like we still have an open contract with the government on some of the material that we got. But Chris Mellon, I don't want to speak for him, but I do know Chris is involved in a lot of things back in D.C. specifically with trying to get this thing pressed through Congress and with oversight and the task force. And he's so deep in it that I think it frees up a lot of time. and gets him kind of away from the entertainment part, which you don't really, it doesn't mix well with the government stuff. And Jim, it would be better for you to talk about some of this stuff,

but that was what we kind of found was some of those issues, I guess. Yeah, that's pretty much it. And, you know, I think Chris needed to go his own way, as with Lou. They wanted to pursue other things that weren't, quote, unquote, entertainment focus. I get that completely. And they are doing, I think it's just an outside. standing job. Both of them, you know, I'm just huge fans. We're all huge fans of them. They were really courageous to do what they did. They had their reputations. And, you know, Lou, I had met with before while he was the head of ATIP and it's sort of done some unofficial consulting with him early on. And I just, my hat's off to him. It's just a great,

great man, as with Chris. So they're doing, I think they're doing God's work, you know. So we're we're huge fans. Any way we can help, but we certainly will. In terms of the partnership between TTSA and the government, there was, I didn't actually see this, but according to my friend Mick West, he says, JJ Abrams, UFO documentary episode three suggests TTSA might be part of a government disinformation program. That's what I signed up for. I was like, how do I lie to my friends and my family? Can I just comment on that? First of all, you know, that's rather insulting. It's insulting, not only to me and all the people that work for the government, what have you, you can't have a disinformation program in the government. It's illegal. You can't do that. I wouldn't do that personally.

I mean, that's terrible. And you know, you cannot influence the population of the United States. Governments can't do that. It's called an operation and you can't have that. It's not, we don't do that. And as a matter of fact, you know, it's one of the reasons I don't like going on shows because when people come up with these questions, you know, you sort of sit there and you look at him and said, well, if you really knew how the government worked, you know, when I was in CIA, I mean, you know, when I was in the senior service, and at one point I was running rather large programs, I had lawyers all around me. I mean, you couldn't make a decision without making sure that you were right on the money. And we, CIA in particular, it's a great organization. I mean,

made a lot of mistakes in the past, but by and large, it's a very, very straight-laced organization. You do not do anything that would in any way harm a U.S. citizen or the population in general. So that's bogus. Yeah, no, okay. I appreciate that so much. And believe me, you know, no one has more respect that didn't serve at least than me. I mean, my father served in a way. Yeah.

Yeah. But I do want to say, you know, I mean, one thing just to criticize the government that I do love in support and it's the best country on earth. I'll say that, except maybe Canada, Kurt's going to speak up about the 51st state to the north up there. But anyway, in all seriousness, you know, I look at COVID-19. And I look at, you know, the trillions of dollars that go from our, 16% of our entire budget goes to the military, CIA, FBI, all these NSA. We didn't, I remember going to dinner in 2020 in January 2020. My friend had told me, you just got an invitation to go to China. Are you going to go, Brian? I said, I don't know. And he said, you shouldn't go. Because China's building.

this hospital slash prison, they're going to start locking people in because this thing called COVID. I said, okay, well, I'll keep my eye and I'm not going to go to, I'm not in a rush to go to Tibet anyway. I'd love to go someday. But they knew about it. My friend at dinner knew about it, in other words, Jim, and trillions of dollars of and the countless lives that were lost, precious individual lives lost in America, because, you know, and you think with this huge apparatus that they be capable of doing something, preventing something. And I don't want to get into politics. I hate politics. And that's why I, I'm an astronomer because there's no Democratic comet.

There's no Republican asteroid, right? So talk about the government, like, could they do, could they cover up something like this? Could they do it malevolently? As you're saying, the CIA is basically, let's just call it what it is. You're saying they're comprised of good people, good men and women, honest patriots. How come they weren't on top of something like COVID, which was, you know, known to my dinner party guests? Well, you know, let me just say this.

The last 10 years, I consulted with the intelligence community. was working on counter biological weapons. And one of the corollaries to that was, you know, working on pandemics and talking about pandemics, I can't tell you how many meetings I sat in with the government from people that did nothing but talk about the coming pandemic. CIA has written intelligence assessments on it. So has DIA.

I mean, almost every government agency has come out and warned people that this is going to be happening down the road. And it's just a question of when. But the problem with this is nobody listens. The government does not listen. Congress doesn't listen and the Senate doesn't listen until it happens. And when it happens, they jump up on the air, start pointing fingers. It's a shame.

It really truly is. 9-11 was the same way. We were screaming, you know, bloody murder about, you know, about Osama bin Laden. And this is what's going to happen. And we think this is going to happen soon. And people just look at it and, you know, say, I don't really believe it could happen. But no, in many, I mean, there are a lot of times where the intelligence community fails, but a lot of these, no, we were not. We were right on top of all this early on, but nobody wanted to

spend money, billions of dollars creating, say, a, you know, a vaccine that could, you know, help, you know, something when there wasn't one, when there wasn't a, when there wasn't a pathogen out there yet. So, and, you know, the government budgets, I mean, we can have a whole program on on government budget and how money is spent. And it's usually spent on quarterly things, the things that you absolutely have to do. So anything that's looked in the future, like UAPs, by the way,

low probability, high impact events like that, they don't get the kind of attention they deserve. But you're right. I agree with you. You want to ask some of your reviewers' questions? Yeah, well, about the government not participating in disinformation, I'm curious, there's MKL, or Project Mockingbird or Operation Mockingbird and Project Blue Book and quite a few others.

So what do you make of that? And also, even if it is illegal, it's not as if the government hasn't done what's illegal before. Oh, no, no, the government has to speak for your government only. Oh, absolutely. I'm not making excuses for the government. I mean, the government has done some terrible things. It wasn't until 1976, for instance, when the CIA was held accountable, is really when all that stopped. when MK Ultra came out and I can't remember the name of the commission,

but it was Gerald Ford was running it. And it actually gave presentations on it. I don't know why it's slipping my mind right now. But essentially, Ramparts Magazine had a big article on this. And the intelligence community just changed right there. I mean, M.K. Ultra was a program. You know, they were experimenting with hallucinogenic because they thought that they controlled people's minds.

because they knew that the Russians were experimenting with us or they were doing it. It was a terrible, terrible program. And it was an awful program. People died. But, you know, and then they burned all the files so we don't know what the hell happened. And this has gone on through, you know, throughout the government in the very beginnings. But as a government gets older and as we learn from these mistakes, things really do get better. So, yeah, I mean, when you look at like the Condon report, that was a total whitewashing.

total whitewash. And they basically came out and said, you know, we're just going to, we're just going to make fun of people who believe in UAPs and UFOs and all this kind of stuff. And that was all, they shouldn't have done that. And it was actually one of the reasons why a lot of us in this is unofficial government workers decided, we're going to go out, we're going to take this private. And we told the highest levels of government, that's what we're going to be doing. Because they can't seem to get this out. I don't know why. I've had talks with them, but they can't get it out. And none of them had any issues with us doing this.

They didn't have any issues with Tom. I mean, it was just go ahead, go ahead and keep us posted if you want, you know. And we do. We do. And if we ever come across information, we'll share it with them. You know, we're not anti-government, but any stretch of the imagination. But we certainly don't shill for them. And we certainly don't work for them.

I have a quick question. Are you aware of any government, whether it's our own? having possession of an alien body? Are you asking me? Any, Jim or Tom? I'm not going to comment on it. Yeah, I'm not, you know, I think there's no way for us to be aware. I mean, we all hear the stories, we all talk about it online or read about it online.

You know, that's one of the reasons why we're trying to figure out about the material that we got. So we have material from a purported crash in the late 40s. We don't really have a chain of title all the way back then. We do for like 20 years or something. We know there's a lot of anomalies about the way it's engineered. We have some theories of what it can do. There's been a lot of studies on it. The government's very interested in this piece.

But if that piece ended up being real, then it's like, well, what else was it a part of and who was piloting this thing? Was it a drone? Was it not? I think it kind of gets us to ask a lot of questions. I'm under the thinking that, you know, if there's things that have been around here for thousands of years, then there's absolutely the potential for some. of these stories to be real. The problem is, is like, you're not going to get anybody to come out and just say that so easily. I think that there's steps to this. You know, I look at the task force

report and I look at what's going on now. And if I, if there was such a thing like bodies or craft or whatever, and they're so advanced and they're somehow influencing, you know, mankind and the way we are engineered to evolve or something crazy. I mean, because I look at us now, it's like first we got into the biology of our bodies and then we got deeper and we got into like, you know, DNA and what that's doing. And every time we master parts of the body and parts of, you know, the world we see and touch and feel like what's the next thing? Well, I think the next thing's going to be discovering consciousness and then we're going to go, how do we manipulate consciousness and how do we capture it and how do we are, you know? So I'm kind of thinking of this, these

beings have been around for so long, they must be in, they must be so far beyond like wondering about our DNA or wondering about like what our spleen does. I think it's going to be probably unnerving, probably complicated, probably a lot that we don't know. And so the idea of the government just coming out and saying,

hey, look what we got before they know what it is. Doesn't make any sense to me. And I tell my friends this, I go, if someone like Jim caught some dude sneaking a nuclear weapon, weapon, you know, through the border of Canada somewhere into the states, you know, are they going to stop and tell us all about it and really just talk about it? Or are they going to go and try and track down the guy who he was working with, where he got the parts, where the device is,

you know, it goes on and it might take some time. Now imagine if that device was like handing an iPhone to a cow. And the cow was like, I got to figure out what this iPhone is. So I think that the logical steps that one would take are exactly kind of. what's happening, which was a number of years trying to figure out something, trying to come up with a plan that helped understand it or whatever. And then it's like, okay, now let's create a proper organization to start getting more data and letting people know that the data is real and that we need to study this. And then over time, being able to say, this is what we learn. You know, it's real. And now we're studying it. And this is how they fly. And it looks like they might be doing

this and that you know and so i think we're doing the logical steps now that might one day lead to we've collected some stuff you know but i don't think that if they even if they did i wouldn't knowing what i know about this subject which isn't like a lot i feel like it's a lot but but who knows um because they say like studying space is like if we were to study the oceans it's like we know a half a cup of water of the oceans yeah that's how much we know about space yeah so i just I think you're seeing a rational logical progression of something extremely complicated, starting to be formed to come out after a long period of time of digging in and trying to wrap their heads around it.

That's what it looks like to me. And it being taboo. And you in particular, Tom, you know, doing yeoman's work to make this less taboo, to make it into the public consciousness. And yet I'm curious how you react to my colleagues, professors, astronomers who spend our days, you know, I heard, I heard Commander Fravor saying on Lex Friedman's podcast, you know, we are trained pilots. We are trained to use our senses, our eyes, and our tools and our technology. Well, so are astronomers. We're pretty good at looking up in things in space. We survey the sky with

high cadence, with quite great frequency. Some right here in Southern California, as you know, look out your window and see Mount Palomar. But I want to ask you, how do you react to those that say, well, astronomers would like nothing better than for these craft to be real, again, so that we could bypass the line and skip from the equivalent of Euclid 2,000 years ago to Einstein, that would be a tremendous boost towards humanity. And no one would have a negative state in that in the astronomical community. You might say the government does and that they want to keep us comfortable and happy and not in revolution. But big astronomy doesn't exist. So how do you react to that? That astronomers would like nothing more for these to be real. We don't have credible

reports in any sensor and any wavelength, any frequency, any polarization. time of day, a year, where it's really credibly come out and been verified, peer-reviewed, however you like to say it. How do you react to those kinds of assertions? Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in a crowd, but too often, life gets busy, or the price holds you back. Price Line is here to help you make it happen. With millions of deals on flights, hotels, and rental cars, you can go see the game live.

Don't just dream about the trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visitpriceline.com. Actual prices may vary, limited time offer. Well, two things for me, and I think Jim will have some really great insight on this, as usual. But the two things for me are, number one, there has been that stuff.

It has been picked up. That was one of Chris Mellon's big pushes is that all of these satellites that are doing thermal imaging, watching animal migrations, weather satellites, spy satellites, It collects data all day long. And he's like, we need to scan that data and we need to find out, you know, if this weather satellite picked up, you know, there's a little Roman right there.

You need some, you need some weather satellite picked up something flying through. But these satellites aren't really geared to pick up things moving 20,000 miles an hour and doing a 90 degree turn, but it still might be in there. But we have to do some software to kind of pull it out. But then we have the videos that come out. There's so many more videos that we know that are probably classified, not so much because of what's on it, but maybe where they filmed it or how good the resolution is or whatever those things are. But those things do exist. We have filmed these things. The military has

them, the government has them on the best systems that have ever been created in the history of man on the spy one radar, the USS Princeton and these top gun pilots and top gun radar controllers capturing this stuff with their eyeballs, with the sensors, with the people in the planes. All that stuff is there. The second thing is, is I don't personally, and I don't know this, think these are coming from space. I don't think they're coming from deep space. So if we're looking at the oceans, but we're wondering where we're going to find a planet, you know, you're not going to find one there. You know, so I think it's better that we're monitoring, you know, the area around our planet and what things are materializing in this realm. And that so I think astronomers are

looking far out. And I'm not exclusive. I'm not saying that there aren't, there isn't other life out there and they're not sending drones out or maybe they're got advanced enough to travel. I'm not saying that. I just have this feeling that the universe is more of a duality structure where time can extend in two directions in the exact same moment in the exact same place, which means people that are very advanced or things that are very advanced can just pop over like a radio station. And that's why we're not seeing them because we're looking out at Mars or we're looking out at like Alpha Centauri and we're like, where's it coming from?

You know, it's like, no, it's in Utah. It's just in the future or something. And so I think we're going to learn and think around those lines. And I think astronomers are totally capable. I mean, these are some of the smartest people in the world. I think maybe it's like adding to like their purview. It's like adding to what they look for and look at and where they look would be kind of cool, you know, getting you guys to look at, you know, frequency.

and duality theory and time existing at one moment in the same location. And, you know, so it's not just looking at stars. It's kind of- How do you react to the new Project Galo-Leyo, Professor Gavi Loeb, who was the chairman of the Harvard Astronomy Department for longer than any other person? You feel like that's a sign of progress that's being made and mainstreaming it? Anybody that's interested in looking for these things and treating them as real is really good for the scientific community.

Um, that's why our company exists is to like create that opportunity where the stigma is gone. Um, I'll, I'll tell you, like, I, it's so, all the conversations I've had with people that really do know a lot about this stuff. Um, you know, they can only talk about so much. So even I was on the wrong path 50 different times for like years. I really thought I understood something. And then all of a sudden, someone else says one more thing. And it changes everything I thought I knew. I was like, oh my God, I got it so wrong. And then, you know, it's difficult to comprehend, especially for a guy like me. I'm not like you.

I didn't go to college. I didn't study science. I don't have that ability, but I'm a pretty clever guy, and I can find patterns pretty easily. And I'm constantly learning. I'm constantly open to learning. But I just think that these scientists in,

I'll give you an example. I mean, I won't go into too much detail because I don't feel comfortable doing it. But there was a very important person. that I met early on long before I knew Jim. And I remember that somebody that was a very high-ranking person at a very important government place said, you should meet this person. He's a very interesting person, very high-ranking person.

And I said, because I pitched this idea of what to the stars could be. And so this person comes to San Diego. They put me on the phone with this other person. And they said, hey, this is Tom. And he's got some great ideas about how to talk to the youth about, you know, life in the universe and so on. this person on the phone was like, well, there's no evidence for that. I don't believe in any of that. It's just not my thing. But why don't you fly up tomorrow come meet me? And I was like to talk about what?

Something that doesn't exist. So I remember this person is the airport visit that you talked about in Rogan? No, no, this is something. No, this is something different. But it led to that. And so this person was just like, it was a two hour conversation. None of it's real. None of it exists. But I want to hear what your plan is or what you're trying to achieve. achieve, you know? And I remember this person was setting up a venture to look for life in the universe somewhere with some really cool technology and a lot of money. I don't want to say too much. And I was like, you know, sir, you're you're looking for life out there. You are raising on this money and you're doing this great thing for humanity and I believe it's out there. I'm all, but I want to talk about the ones that are here. I think young people need to know about the ones that are here. And I remember banging on the table, you know, because I knew that the meeting

was kind of bearing up for two hours, like, you know, it was going to get shut down. I was going to get anywhere. So I got really full of passion. And I was like, you want to look out there? Great. I need your help because I want to discuss what's here, the one's here, you know. And then he took a deep breath. And then he just looked at me. And then he said, he goes, let's introduce him to so and so. And then the other next time turns his head. And he goes, are you sure? He goes, yeah, I'm sure. And that's how it led to that other meeting and the next thing you know you got these people gathering around that want to talk about what's here but they're very limited on what they can say so i have to like kind of put things together and then fortunately i meet jim and jim teaches me a lot about how to absorb information

and how to digest it and how to hold on to it even if it doesn't because it doesn't have enough about it that means anything yet but it might be important later um i'm not him but i i'm trying to learn as much as i can from him and so it the whole thing is just wild like it's very real and there's a difference between what's out there and what's here. And it might be, there might be a lot more than that too. The universe is big, you know, there could be infinite possibility out there. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, just add a quick thing about science and scientists in general regarding this UAP phenomenon. I feel so sorry for them in many respects. I am a huge fan of the Galileo project. I just think it's wonderful. And I think what he's going to be doing and what you guys are all, going to be doing with that is is is really necessary i just applaud how courageous you guys are going out and doing that and and dr lobe is doing that um i will say i haven't met very many scientists uh that are in that are doing something like this or whether they're skeptics or what

have you that have a really sound understanding of the literature and the research that has been done over the last 70 years on this topic i think if they did they'd have a better appreciation for what they're going against or what they're trying to figure out. Personally, based on my knowledge and based on what I know, I don't think we're ever going to come to, at least not in my lifetime. I'm an older guy now, but in my lifetime, we're ever going to come to any kind of conclusion about what this phenomenon actually is. I think it encompasses a lot more than UAPs.

I think there's a huge trickster element to it. I could go on, you know, but I'll just, I'll just, just say that I appreciate the fact that science is doing this. I think eventually science is going to have to figure out another way to approach this. Because as Tom keeps mentioning consciousness and what have you, I spoke to a scientist once and who is very involved in this. And I asked him, I said, where do you think is behind all this, this phenomenon? And he said, it's somewhere in between consciousness and, you know, a nexus of consciousness

and quantum, quantum theory, quantum mechanics. But when you're talking about quantum mechanics and, you know, when I ask you about superpositioning or ask you about quantum entanglement or the particle wave theory and what have you, you can't explain it. Scientists can't really explain it, but it's in a box. It's in the quantum theory box. And it's a place they can put it.

And there's something there. But when you talk about UAPs, there is no ontology. There's no way, there's no lexicon that you can actually use to even begin the discussion. We can't even figure out what questions to ask about this because we don't know what it is. There's no there there, as I said before. And that's what makes it extremely difficult. And I think that's why scientists, many scientists, are extremely frustrated over this. The evidence, there is some hard evidence that I feel this hard evidence.

Some scientists don't believe that's true. But a lot of what we have is anecdotal and they might call soft evidence. But nevertheless, it's there. As I said before, these Tic Tacs that were flying, over the Nimitz, they're real. They were absolutely 100% real. And please don't tell me, there was censored anomalies. I know they weren't censor anomalies. They were absolutely real. So what do you do with that? And so if you're a scientist, you say, well, show me, you know, I got to see them again. I got to take, this is what I love about the Galileo project. I want to

take a good picture. That is the perfect thing to say, because that's exactly what we need. We need a good picture first. And there are some out there, by the way. But I don't know. Are they classified? Are they classified? Yeah. Great pictures.

And I think Lou's even mentioned this a couple times that some of the evidence that we do have is rather compelling. And but there is a problem with releasing them regarding some of the sensor systems that we have and you can't give away, you know, what we're able to. I see. Yeah. I have a quick question about consciousness. And then I have to leave pretty sooner. My wife will kill me. Okay, okay.

So consciousness, this trickster element you mentioned. Now, at the same time, there's also Steve Greer. I believe it's Greer who said that there's a project called CE5 or at least a technique of CE5 of connecting yourself with an alien via some meditative technique or perhaps even psychedelic, some trans state, some abnormal consciousness state, altered state. What do you make of this? I you want to go well I'll say one thing about well let me say one thing about

Stephen Greer I've never met the man I do take my hat off to him he's done some incredible work early on he's not a big fan of our organization at all and I'm not quite sure why but he isn't but as far as what he's doing with CE5

and what have you I don't have any comment at that I don't go that far I mean it's Tom you want to yeah My feeling is that, you know, again, if you look at just what we've done as human beings over the past hundred years where it's like we first, you know, we invent the telephone and then radio waves and communicating over different frequencies and then we're able to tap

phones and we're able to tap, you know, hack into radio, whatever. Like you just look at the progression that we're doing, I would bet money that down the line when we're technologically advanced, we're going to not be hacking radio waves. We're going to be hacking minds. We're going to be listening in to what people are thinking. And what is the loudest that someone can be when they're thinking? I would imagine it's a group of people that are meditating together. They're all thinking the same thing at the same moment.

So it's almost like if you're searching around for a light in the dark, that's a brighter light. So part of me really does subscribe to, you know, consciousness and meditation and the focusing of one's mind is being something that, that something advanced could easily get into. I mean, when you look at the evidence or you look at the data of the people involved, it's, you know, and you can be paralyzed or you hear voices in your head, or, you know, it's always something to do

with, you know, kind of hacking the system to a degree. So I think that that's all plays a big part of it. And I definitely believe it. You know, I just think that it needs to be studied scientifically. Yeah, I agree. I don't discount what Stephen Greer is saying. I, you know, it could possibly be true. I just don't know enough about it.

But I applaud that he's actually working on it, but, you know. Now, when you, we do have some questions in the audience. You want to know how they can be involved. What can they do? Obviously, Project Galileo is privately funded. It's at Harvard. What about your endeavors, guys? What would you like to turn to people to attention to, to get involved if they're interested in joining this mission?

Well, we created a public company, a public benefit company, so our goal was like, if we're going to do this, we can't do this for just a few people own it. So we have about four, yeah, somewhere between 3,500, 4,000 investors where we let people come and be a part of this and help grow the company so we can do exactly this. We can tell the stories. We can do the research. We can help push the government. We can kind of become a credible place to discuss this stuff. So that's one avenue.

Support TTSA, you know, be an owner of it. us and help us get the job done. Look what we've done so far on very little. The second thing is I say this. This is just me talking. This isn't a to the stars position or anything. Don't let the government sit quietly and just go off and they say one thing and then we just trust it. It's fine. These are human beings that work there that get distracted, that get overburdened with other jobs they got to do. Really, there's not much in it for these guys, you know, that are working some of these difficult issues to come on to start talking about it and have everyone start calling their office and bugging them and now they can't get their job done and now they've got

to go brief a bunch of senators that just want to be on TV and get more votes. But so, you know, but I think that people need to not let them live this down. You know, you've got to bring this up when they're interviewing the president. You've got to bring this up when they're when the congressmen are having debates, the senators are having debates that get reelected. You got to bring this up in the press environment, you know, when the, when the PR person is talking for the DOD or talking for the CIA or talking for any place that might have stakes in this. But when we're quiet and complacent and just read a report that it's all real, but we don't really like follow up, blows my mind. I mean, it blows my mind that people are not beating down the door right now going,

wait, what? This is real? How much do you really know that you're not telling us? Well, in my own personal opinion. I think they know a hell of a lot more than we know. And I think they have a hell of a good reason probably for not talking about all of it. Because in my experience, with all these government guys, they're all really good people and they're smart and they're ethical. They're humans and make mistakes and new laws get created for more oversight and so on. So we don't have a repeat of the MK. Ultra stuff or whatever. But I've met a lot of these people. And a lot of them are just bound by the ethics or the rules of how it works. It's like they create a black program.

But there's no part of a classified program that I know of that's ever been spoken where it's kind of like, okay, now comes the part where we tell everybody about it. It just doesn't exist. So then how do you tell everybody about it? I mean, Jim can talk about it better than I can. But the only way is pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure. And then finally, they have to act for the will of the people. And so that's what you need to do.

Don't let them down. Luke, don't let it go quietly. No, no. I couldn't agree with Tom anymore. I mean, he's absolutely right in what he just said. And, you know, this is one of the reasons we formed TTSA. I remember talking with Lou when he was on the task force and being into Pentagon. And then talking to some of the officers there that were very concerned about this phenomenon.

They, you know, they knew it was real. They just didn't know what to do about it. And I kept telling them, you know, look, you know, you got to go public with this. And if you can't go public, you know, I just formed a company with Tom DeLong, and I said, we're going to take this private. We're going to go to the private sector because the government does not own this data. The government doesn't own UAPs or the study of UAPs or the research. It belongs to everybody.

It doesn't just appear to carrier strike groups. It appears everywhere to all people around the world. It's appearing in Argentina and China, you know, in Bangladesh. So we really, as human beings, have to get together. And that's when we said we're taking this private and we won't discuss classified information, but we are going private. The public has to be more informed about this and let them know that their consensus reality. Reality we all agree on isn't quite right.

There's something else going on. And we really truly have to figure that out because that's what we do as human beings. Well, guys, thank you. I'll let it go with that. And I really do have to leave. And I really enjoying this very, very much. Yeah. I'm enjoying it as well.

Yeah. Let's do it part too, Jim. Let's do it again. I'd be more than happy to do it again with you guys. Yeah. It would be fun in doing another one, but digging into not so much, you know, is it real and what the government's doing or not. But really just like dig into, you know, what it's, you know, something more about what it's about, what it's doing or like something that's not just government. Because Jim has a lot of knowledge.

That's right. Yeah, that would be a really. Yeah, the physics implication. Get young people interested in thinking big. Look, sometimes it borders on sci-fi. Sometimes it has a stigma. But nevertheless, if we can inspire just one mind, as they say, to take physics seriously to learn.

And with the artist eye of Tom, with the patriotic eye of Jim, with the inquisitive nature of Kurt and maybe with the scientist's perspective that I'm trying to bring, I think we're doing a good service. So I'd love to do that again, guys. Tom, thank you so much for your generosity. Thank you, guys. Love your work. Big fan.

Maybe Kurt, next time you'll take out your guitar and you'll teach Tom's chords or something, man. That'll be fun. Dude, I only know three chords. I'm in a punk band. I mean, we don't know any more than three, so that's what we do. Oh, we love you, man. And Kurt, thank you so much, brother. And Jim, it's honor and a pleasure.

Thank you for your service to the country. My honor, too. Tom, thank you so much. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Please support the show by rating, commenting, sharing, and leaving reviews. We appreciate hearing from you. and it really helps keep our universe expanding. Watch our YouTube channel at Dr. Brian Keating.

That's DR. Brian Keating and join our premieres Tuesdays at 8 a.m. Pacific Time. Follow Brian on Twitter and Medium and support us on Patreon at Dr. Brian Keating. For exclusive content, visit Brian Keating's website and sign up for his informative newsletter at Brian Keating.com. Into the Impossible is produced with the Arthur C. Clark Center

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