Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - 34 Dermatologist-Approved Skincare Rules for Your 20s, 30s, 40s and Beyond

Episode Date: September 3, 2020

To coincide with Women’s Health’s first ever Fit At Any Age issue hitting newsstands, we're exploring how you can get your best-ever skin, in your 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond. Because while skin is personal, and its needs vary according to things like your ethnicity or skin type, there are certain fundamental principles that are worth getting to grips with. It's knowledge that can make caring for your skin simpler, more satisfying and a great deal more fun - whatever your age. In today's episode, Women’s Health’s Beauty Editor Perdie Nouril is joined by Dr Anjali Mahto, a consultant dermatologist and author of The Skincare Bible: Your No-Nonsense Guide To Great Skin (£14.99, Penguin). She spells out the formulations and habits you’ll want on your side as you move through the years and offers her specialist insight on managing conditions such as acne, rosacea and pigmentation. By the end you’ll know your hyaluronic from your ascorbic from your azelaic acid and be able to decode a product label like a pro. Note taking advised. Follow Dr Anjali Mahto on Instagram: @anjalimahto Follow Perdie Nouril on Instagram: @perditanouril Follow Women's Health on Instagram: @womenshealthuk Topics How to choose the right SPF for you  How to deal with adult acne  When is the right time to use retinol?  The case for using a vitamin C serum How hormonal changes impact 40-something skin Why getting expert advice can be cost-effective Like what you’re hearing? We'd love if you could rate and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, as it really helps other people find the show. Also, remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, so you’ll never miss an episode.   Got a goal in mind? Shoot us a message on Instagram putting ‘Going for Goal’ at the start of your message and our experts could be helping you achieve your health goal in an upcoming episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, you are listening to Going for Goal, the weekly Women's Health podcast. My name's Rochene, I'm senior editor on women's health, and this is your weekly chance to plug in, be inspired and get expert advice on how to achieve the health and wellness goals that matter most to you. Now, as you may have noticed us banging on about, women's health launched our first ever fit at any age issue this week. It's franted by one of the UK's fittest 50-somethings, broadcaster and long-time exercise enthusiast, Vina McCall. From the smartest ways to strengthen your body at all stages to psychologist tips for shaking off anxiety around ageing and strategies for handling the hormonal acrobatics that go on as we get older, it's all in there.

Along with, of course, tons of age-specific beauty and skincare advice. And skin is what we're talking about today. We're looking at the goal of how you can best care for your skin in your 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. Because of course while skin is personal and its needs vary according to things like your skin type or your ethnicity, there are certain principles that are worth getting to grips with. And having this knowledge makes navigating the ballooning skincare market much less stressful. Women's Health's Beauty Editor Purdy Noreal is joined by Dr. Angeli Marto,

a dermatologist who across beauty, skin care, health and wellness, people really rate. In this episode, Angelie spells out in gloriously simple terms, the formulations and habits that you'll want on your side as you move through the years. By the end, you'll know your hyaluronic from your asylic, from your azaleic acid, and how to decode a skincare label like a pro. I made so many notes while listening to this one for the first time. So, advance warning that you might want a notebook handy for this one. Over to Purdy and Anjali.

Hi, everyone. I'm Purdy, the beauty editor of women's health. And I'm really excited to be taking a deep dive into the world of skincare and specifically talking about tips and habits on how to get gorgeous skin, whatever your age. Now, if anyone knows about skin, it's today's guest, Dr. Angeli Marto, consultant dermatologist and author of the skincare Bible. Honestly, what this lady doesn't know about skin isn't worth knowing. Angi, welcome. How are you? Very well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, no, it's our pleasure. So, tell me a little bit about your background.

What's your skincare philosophy and how it came to be formed? For me, a lot of my kind of skincare journey started with troublesome acne from quite a young age, which has persisted well into like now my 40s. So I think one of the things that I've learned over the years is that less is more. We do not need to be chasing every fads that is out there. And there is a lot of clever marketing when it comes to skin care. So it can become quite difficult choosing products that are right for our skin that are going to show us good clinical quality results. I think it would be really good to get your key rules for a great skincare regime, whatever your age. So the top tips that you swear by whether you're 50 or 20.

Yeah. So number one is making sure that you are cleansing your skin appropriately. I know it sounds like a really basic one, but you have to make sure that you are removing dirt, sweat, grime, pollution, bacteria, as well as makeup or SPF if you wear it properly off your skin. The second thing is having clean skin then provides a foundation or a base for the rest of your routine. So number one, a good cleanser, ideally morning and evening. Number two, wearing a sunscreen. And wearing a sunscreen every day as part of your skincare routine is absolutely vital for two reasons. The first reason is that it will reduce your risk of developing skin cancer in the future.

And skin cancer is one of those cancers that has been in. increasing over the decades as we start to travel more as people like to get a tan. So using sunscreen will reduce your risk of sunburn and therefore subsequent skin cancer. But secondly, if I can't appeal from a medical point of view, I'm going to try and appeal from an aesthetic one, over 80 to 90% of the signs that we associate with skin aging. So fine lines, wrinkles, pigmentation, sagging of the skin can be associated directly because of sunlight. So if you don't protect against the skin, you will start noticing signs of premature skin aging. And I think if anything, it's the amount of money it saves you in the long run, you know,

by opting for a preventative measure in terms of all the money that you'll spend on serums trying to reverse those signs of aging, isn't it? I think that's spot on. And I think people are far more interested now, actually, in what they can do from a preventative aspect rather than a treatment one, which not only can become very expensive, but it's almost a little bit too late starting by then. So I think the sooner you can start, the better. So cleansing, sunscreen are the two big ones.

And then active ingredients, depending on what your personal skincare need is. Whether your skin is acne-prone, that might be something like a beta-hydroxy acid like salicylic. If the issue is pigmentation, you might want to choose something like azaleic acid. If you're just generally worried about skincare, like aging and fine lines, it might be a vitamin A. So that active choice depends very much on your own personal needs. Okay. And aside from kind of topical treatments, are there any lifestyle tips that are, you know, important for keeping your skin in good nick? Absolutely. So, I mean, when we think about our skin and our skin in both health and disease, partly it's your genetics, what you've inherited. You know, if your parents have aged well and there is no family history of skin problems, chances are you'll be lucky and that may be the case as well. But there are additional lifestyle factors that can play into how we're, you know, we look after our skin. So aside from skincare, nutrition is another really important aspect.

Now, I'm always keen to say this, but I do not think that there is any major superfood for your skin. But a diet that is good for your skin is a diet that is good for your general health. It's one that's going to be good for your gut and it's going to be one that's good for your eyes and your lungs and your heart. So eating good fats like your omega-3s, making sure you're getting plenty of fruit and veg to get your antioxidants. You're eating nuts and seeds. And also, you don't have to cut out sugar, but reducing the amount of refined sugar in your diet may also prevent premature skin aging over time. Then it's making sure that you're getting enough sleep and eight hours of sleep. Our skin has got a circadian rhythm. It's got a body clock or a 24-hour

clock. So when people talk about beauty sleep, they're not getting it wrong. You know, our skin genuinely goes into repair and regeneration at night time. So not getting your proper shut eye, you are actually reducing the way that your skin is regenerating, repairing at nighttime. So making sure you're sleeping, managing stress. Stress can very much play into skin conditions, particularly things like acne or rosatia or eczema or psoriasis, these inflammatory conditions. So, you know, it's whatever works for you, be that exercise or yoga or meditation or not having caffeine after midday. You know, I think everyone has a different thing that they do to manage their stress. And then things like not smoking.

Smoking is in prematurely age of skin. It's associated with skin problems like lupus and hydroadonitis. And same with alcohol intake. If you drink heavily over long periods of time, you're depleting your body full of important bitinins. So it's not that anyone is saying, don't ever have sugar or don't ever have wine. But it's just about how to moderate that in a healthy, balanced diet over a long period of time. Yeah, exactly that. Thank you. Okay, so let's break it down into decades, shall we? So if we start with our 20s, I know that when I look back on my 20s, my skincare regime was non-existent purely because, you know, I had youth on my side and I was far too busy partying. But actually, that's when you should sort of be laying the groundwork for a solid skincare regime, isn't it? Yeah, I think so. You're absolutely right. Generally in people's 20s, you know, people that don't have skin issues, the skin is generally good. It's plump. It's youthful. But what does start to happen from about your mid-20s onwards is you do start to lose 1% per year of your body's collagen. And collagen is that main protein that gives your skin, its support and its structure. So people start to notice changes, you know, pretty much mid-20s onwards is what I would say.

So I would say the biggest thing that you can start doing from the skincare point of view is actually to incorporate that sunscreen into your routine if you haven't done so already. And I don't mean an SPF within your moisturiser or your foundation. I mean a separate sunscreen which is layered after your moisturiser. And with SPFs, how do you go about finding the right one for your skin type? So, you know, obviously you have mineral SPFs and you have chemical SPFs. if you could kind of break those down for us. Yeah, absolutely.

So broadly speaking, the chemical sunscreens work by having chemicals in them that will absorb ultraviolet light from the sun. The mineral ones, on the other hand, tend to form a physical barrier on the skin and they stop the sunlight getting through effectively. Now, that's overly simplistic. Even the mineral ones do actually absorb to some degree as well. But what generally people will find is if you have got sensitive skin or if you have skin that has got a chronic inflammatory skin condition like acne or rosacea or eczema,

the mineral sunscreens might suit you better because the chemicals can cause irritation and sensitivity. On the other hand, if your skin is not sensitive, it's pretty normal, normal combination, which is the vast majority, a chemical sunscreen should be absolutely fine. What you will generally find is, particularly in darker skin types, a lot of the mineral sunscreens can leave a white kind of sheen on the skin or an ashy skin tone. So if you do not need to use a mineral sunscreen and you've got skin of colour, you may prefer a chemical one because it will rub into the skin better. Okay, perfect. And are there any out there from a dermatologist's point of view that you really

rate? Yeah. So there's a handful that I recommend in clinic. The first one that I really like is the the HeoCare 360 gel oil free SPF 50. And I'm a lot. Like it is. I'd see only one that I found that person doesn't break me out in acne. So I'm fond of it for that reason. It's really matte and it's got a light tint. So it's quite nice to almost as a makeup primer underneath your foundational base. The second one that I really like is the Jan Marini physical protectant. And that's a nice mineral sunscreen. You start to do a really nice one called Neostrata Physical Fusion. And then Skinsuticals as a general rule, I really like all of their sunscreen. Yeah, I'm obsessed with the new skin suiticles one just because it's really good for. discoloration and toning. It's absolutely brilliant. Okay, so also, there was a recent study by the University of Birmingham that found that adult acne still affects up to 50% of women in their 20s. And that online dermatology subscription service, Dermatica, reported that 27 is the most common age where patients sign up looking for acne treatment. So do you see a lot of 20-year-olds with acne?

Absolutely. So, I mean, if you look at the definition almost for female adult acne, it is from about the age of 23 years onwards. And a lot of women will suffer with it. If you look at all of the scientific literature, about 20 to 40% of adult women will have acne. It's a much smaller percentage of men. And the reason for that is we have far more complex hormonal cycles that go on. And then of the women that suffer with adult acne,

the vast majority will have had persistent acne. And what I mean by that is they developed acne in their teenage years and it's just grumbled on and on. and they've never really grown out of it. Okay. But you do have an additional 20% that have perfect skin as a teenager, no skin problems whatsoever. And they break out for the very first time.

And that can come as a real shock. So what kind of ingredients and formulations would you recommend for those women? And how do they have to adjust their skincare regime in their 20s? So I think for the adult acne sufferers in their 20s, you want to make sure that you are using skincare ingredients like salicillin, acid and up the concentrations of 2%. And that can come in the format of a moisturiser, a toner or a face wash. So whatever your preferred mechanism is. And how does salicylic acid work? So salicylic acid is a beta hydroxy acid. So what it does is it is able to penetrate the pore and break up oil

production in the pool. So essentially it can stop your pores getting blocked and stop comodones or blackheads from forming. And once you stop those pores getting blocked, that's the primary acne lesion. If you stop those, you won't get further development of acne. So salicylic is particularly good for that. The second over-the-counter products that you can get, or ingredient you can get, is benzol peroxide. And benzol peroxide is also particularly beneficial. It can be an irritant for some people, but I think, say, those two are the two key things that you're looking for. I would be cautious, though, introducing these products into your routine because they can cause irritation and burning and peeling the first couple of times that you use them. So don't go crazy.

a hold load onto your skin, thinking the more you apply, the sooner it will improve. Okay. And retinone is another product that's recommended for people with acne, but is 22 young to start using it? I would say that if we're talking about acne-prone skin, retinoids can be particularly effective, in particular prescription retinoids. And what I would say is if somebody is struggling with acne, I wouldn't recommend that they try and buy a cosmetic retinal. I think you are better off seeing the GP or a dermatologist and getting a prescription retinoid, which is stronger, which is geared specifically for acne itself. So in that context, I would say no, I think it's useful on a prescription strength basis for a medical issue.

From the point of view of an anti-aging point of view, I think it probably is a bit early. I would say the time to start introducing retinol into your routine is probably late 20s, if you've got very fair skin or if you've had a lot of sun exposure. And early 30s, if your skin is darker or skin of colour, you don't need to start quite as soon. Okay. And finally for your 20s, is there any other active ingredients that you can begin to start using or, you know, is it just good to start incorporating a moisturiser into your routine? Yes. So I would say basic routine in your 20 should be your cleansing, your moisturiser and your sunscreen. Now, for some people, if they are actually pro, they may not want to use a moisturiser and a sunscreen as well because a lot of sunscreen

do come in a moisturising base. So for the most people, I would say, you're better off cleansing your skin, using a light hyalronic acid serum rather than a creamy moisturiser and then after the serum applying your sunscreen. Okay, and is that because hyaluronic acid is just a bit lighter and better tolerated on the skin compared to the skin? That's exactly right. Okay, cool.

Let's move on to the 30s. So early 30s, we know nationally, is the most common age for women to start having babies. and I know that when I had my daughter, goodness, did my skin change? The sleep deprivation really took its toll. Yeah, I think the 30s in some way, skincare-wise, are quite a tricky decade. So if a lot of women are choosing to start a family during that time, there are a couple of predictable things that we know it will happen to your skin. The first one is that in the first trimester of pregnancy,

a lot of women do find that their acne can flare up. And it's very, very common to see that. and that's partly because of hormonal fluctuations and there being a kind of higher level of progesterone which can drive the acne process itself. But that normally starts together by trimester two and three. But the second issue that can happen during pregnancy is the development of malasma or cloasma,

so otherwise known as pregnancy mask, where you can start getting pigmentation, usually on the face, which is symmetrical, can affect the cheeks, the forehead and the upper lip. So that is another thing to bear in mind. So one of the reasons that happens again is because of hormonal fluctuations. Whilst you're pregnant, you produce more of a hormone called alpha melanocyte stimulating hormone, alpha MSH. And that is the hormone that not only makes your breasts, your nipples darker whilst you're pregnant,

but it's the one that gives you that fine, dark line between your belly button and further down as well. So that's the same thing that's driving the pigmentation in the skin. So when you're using skin care whilst you're pregnant, there are a lot of products that you can't. use, but azaleic acid is one that is safe during pregnancy. Azaleic acid is also super helpful for pigmentation. So I think that that is one ingredient that actually you could be using alongside your sunscreen whilst you're pregnant, particularly if you are prone to pigmentation or there is a family history of it.

Is it safe to use on those with darker skin tones that tend to get hyperpigmentation as well? That's right. Azaleic is good for all of that, actually. It's safe to use across all skin types and it's safe to use whilst you're pregnant, whilst you're breastfeeding. So it's a good all-round ingredient from that point to you. But I think the second issue that happens in your 30s is it's also when your face starts to show signs of aging as well. So then you're also tackling that aspect of it too. And that's when

you do start, if you've got fair skin, to start noticing lines around your eyes, forehead lines or frown lines which start to develop. And why is it fair skin notices those signs before anybody else? It's partly because of sun exposure actually. So fair skin has got relative less pigment or melanin. So melanin basically can absorb a lot of sunlight. And if your skin is fair, you are much more vulnerable to the effects of sunlight and the aging signs that it causes. Different ethnicities age very, very differently.

And what you'll find is that fair skin types will effectively go wrinkly before they go saggy. So from a practical point of view, I know that they're more likely need treatments like Botox before they'll need fillers. Okay. But if you look at skin of color, so Asian and black skin, we go saggy before we go wrinkly. So we often don't need our Botox that early,

but we do start to develop nose to mouth lines, so nasal labial folds much, much earlier. And we do also start to develop sort of like sagging around the jawline much earlier as well. So it's just a difference in sun exposure, but also our facial anatomy as well. Okay. And with things like facial sagging, because I know you put something up about this on one of your Instagrams,

so there's no cream that can help with facial sagging. I'm afraid not. So I think, in fact, actually, what I call in this Instagram post is we often mistakenly think of skin aging being the same thing as facial aging. Yeah. And they're not because your, you know, your face has got so many different layers to it. It's got your skin and then below the skin. It's got fat and then below fat. It's got muscle and then below that there's bone.

And one of the things that we just don't realize is our facial skeleton changes and it starts to almost dissolve away as we get older. and the same with the fat pads underneath our face, which become thin enough and start to separate. And that's ultimately what leads to sagging of the skin. And there is no skincare product that is able to penetrate deep enough through all the layers of the skin to the fat and the bone to prevent those changes. Yeah, I'd be worrying if there was, wouldn't there? Absolutely. It was able to get that far.

What about active ingredients should you look for in your 30s? So provided you're not pregnant, and I would say this is really the time where you're you should have got your vitamin A into your routine. Like the 30s are for your retinol products. Okay. So vitamin A is really good at boosting cell turnover, boosting collagen production, but also evening that skin tone as well. So if you're starting to get a little bit of blotching pigmentation.

But it must not be used whilst you're trying to conceive and whilst you're pregnant. So you must be careful with that. But there are lots of good vitamin A products available on the market. There are retinoles. There are retinolid. And the advice I always say is it should be. use in your routine at night time after cleansing because the products are irritating start off using a pea-sized amount thin layer to the full face avoiding the eye area once you're okay using it once or

twice a week you can slowly build up to every night as you tolerate it and then 20 minutes later pop on a bit of moisturiser and what that will do is reduce irritation and so if you just started using it would you would you go for a low strength dose and would you go for a product that has retina parmitate in it because it's, you know, it's less potent in that sense, or is it okay to go for just like a 1% retinal? So for most people, I would say your starting point should be a 0.1% retinol. Okay. I think that when you're getting into the retinal esters, like retinal parmitate and retinal acetate, they are significantly weaker and I would be suspicious and skeptical of whether or not they do what they need to do. So I would say 0.1% retinal should be your starting point.

Okay. And that's a good starting point. You've been. if you have very sensitive skin. There are a lot of good products on the market that are 0.3% that they start at. And then you can slowly build up. And everyone's skin can be really different. And some people are super sensitive. And literally, it will take the months

to be able to get to the point where they can use it every night. And some people like me, I've got the hydro rhino. I would literally be able to use that every night and nothing would happen to my skin. So I would say the key and the point where you want to switch up

is when you are able to use that product every night without any red, redness or peeling or flaking or irritation or burning. It means just tolerating it and it might be time to then stick it up a notch. Okay, perfect. And I think this is another question that I often get asked by my peers when they hit their 30s is eye creams. Yes. So if you look at the majority of eye creams, they only have temporary effects. They're usually ingredients that are exactly the same in your facial moisturiser.

And a lot of them simply work by basically causing moisturising effect around the eye area so it temporarily plumps up any fine lines or wrinkles.

So I would say if you're actually looking for something around the eye that's going to be of genuine benefit, the first biggest thing is actually putting sunscreen around your eyes.

And the majority of us forget to do this. We put our sunscreen on our face, but we don't take it all the way up to our upper and our lower eyelids. And 10% of skin cancers

that's the second reason why we need to be doing that. There are some good products that you can use that are safe to use around the eye area. Generally, mineral sunscreens are tolerated quite well around the eye. Skin suiticles do one called skin suiticles, mineral UVI. That's the one that I use. So I will just use E45 or a vino around my eyes just to moisturize, and then I will put the sunscreen on because the sunscreen is vital. And then in the evening, you can use some good products that are eye retinoles. So personally, I use the Murad, eye retinol. at night before I go to bed. So I think sunscreen, vitamin A is really what you want to be doing.

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Mom. Get completely terrified. Who's that day? Choose wisely. with Halloween on Disney Plus. The other point I wanted to touch upon about a few or 30s is vitamin C. Yeah. So vitamin C is an antioxidant.

Antioxidants are useful in skincare for a number of reasons. Whilst we are out and about and we're getting ultraviolet light and pollution and all sorts of other stimulus being thrown at our skin, what they do is they generate these harmful molecules known as free radicals. And free radicals can interact with the DNA and the lipids and the fats and the proteins in our skin cells, causing damage, resulting in breakdown. And an antioxidant serum like vitamin C can actually neutralize the effect of these free radicals to prevent premature breakdown or damage to DNA. So it neutralizes that free radical. Correct. So then that free radical is unable to do that DNA or that protein or that lipid damage.

Okay. Got you. And vitamin C is a good one. And the reason I like vitamin C is a good one. And the reason I like vitamin C over other antioxidants, so vitamin E is another example of this, because firstly it's probably the most widely studied if you look at all of the literature that we've got. The second thing is vitamin C's a really good multi-purpose ingredient. So not only is it a good antioxidant, but it's also a really effective skin brightening agent if you're looking for something to even out skin tone. And it's also a really vital part of collagen production in the skin.

So there are a number of extra benefits that you can get from vitamin C. So the place where you would want vitamin C in your routine ideally is possibly in the form of a serum. First thing in the morning, after cleansing, apply your vitamin C serum, let that soak into your skin, and then you do your moisturiser and your sunscreen afterwards. Okay, perfect. Most studies on vitamin C have taken place on l-a-scorbit acid, which is the purest form of vitamin C. And in terms of skin benefits, anywhere between 5 to 15% is of use to the skin. The higher the percentage, the more likely it is to cause irritation.

Okay. So ellipsobic is the gold standard. So you should look for that on the back of the ingredients list. Absolutely. Make sure it's very high up on the ingredients list is the second thing. Because when you're looking at packaging, normally the bulk of the product is made up by the top five ingredients that are listed. So if the L-a-sorbic acid or your vitamin C is right at the very end, chances are there's not very much in there. And then the second thing is vitamin C is really unstable.

It breaks down really quickly. So make sure that you're not storing your vitamin C in a hot, steamy bathroom and that you are storing it in like a cool dry place out of direct sunlight. And then the second thing, I think, is just look at the color of it. If vitamin C has gone off, it will be this bright orange color. It is not supposed to be bright orange, even though people think vitamin C and orange. ranges, which should be a pale kind of yellow or clear color altogether. Okay, and some of them, this smell can go off as well, can't there? That's another tail to your side.

Okay. And also, vitamin C, as well as being a brilliant antioxidant, can work really, really well on pigmentation, can't it? It can. It wouldn't be my first choice for pigmentation, I'll be honest with you. I would say vitamin C is more I put into the category of skin brightening. So if there's a little bit of an uneven skin tone, I would use that. But if we're talking about much heavier pigmentation, then actually things like azaleic acid would probably be my preference over the vitamin C.

But it does depend on the type of pigmentation and the extent or severity of it as well. And speaking of acids, are there any other acids that you recommend? So I know glycolic can be quite popular. Should that be something you try to incorporate into your routine? Or again, is it a case of, you know, don't overload your steps? So I think there is room for alpha hydroxy acids like glycolic acid, lactic acid, mandelic acid. The function of these acids, unlike hyluronic acid and azaleic acid, which are completely different, is AHAs are exfoliating acids. So they basically work by removing that upper layer of dead skin cells.

So they can immediately brighten the skin. If you've got all staining from acne, for example, it can help exfoliate and lift those away. So I'd say there is scope for them, but I would exercise caution that you don't need to be using at night time, which I sometimes see people do. They're putting on Azaleic, then they're putting on glycolic, and then they're putting on their vitamin A. I would almost be kind of tempted to say, you know, if you want to incorporate an alpha hydroxy acid, why not get it in the form of a face wash instead? So you're not like leaving lots of leave on products onto your skin. And then once or twice a week, you can use a glycolic face wash just to get the benefits as well. So the one that I recommend in clinic is the Jan Marini

bioglycolic skin clangler. And I think that that's a nice way of getting a chemical experience onto the skin without overly layering and potentially causing irritation. The other one that I like is the cordially glycoly facel mask. And that's really nice as well. That's a nice self-care one to do.

But that's the other one I'm quite fond of. Okay, cool. So I think that's 30s covered. And 40s. What should you start using here? And again, how does the skin change in this decade? So the 40s are a funny one, actually, because again, people's kind of level of how much things are changing is quite variable.

In your early 40s, I would be tempted to just think of it as a projection of your 30s. So your retinal is still really important. If you want to incorporate that alpha hydroxy acid, that you can do that. You've got your antioxidant serum. So just to summarize what we've got so far in the morning, you would wash your face, you would put on your vitamin C serum, you would moisturise, you would sunscreen and then make up if you want. In the evening, you would cleanse, you would then use your vitamin A product, and then once or twice a week you could use a glycolic face wash if you

wanted to. So that would be an easy example of a routine that you can continue in your 30s and the 40s. But what tends to happen by the time you get more to your mid-40s is that the skin often does start to become more dry. And the reason for that is, as, as you know, as you know, As we go through our 40s and we approach our early 50s, we are approaching the menopause. The average Asian menopause is 53 in the UK. And what that means is our levels of estrogen start to drop. And estrogen is such an important hormone for women in terms of skin hydration and in terms of like oil or sebum production, both of which start to drop off. So a lot of people will notice their skin will start to become more dry.

So I think one of the things that you can do here is if you are noticing that, in your routine, you could add in a hyaluronic acid serum underneath your moisturiser to get more hydration into the skin. So basically, you're layering two products to make sure the skin is getting all the hydration that it needs. And I think that is really, really important. But what will essentially happen in your 40s is more of those lines, wrinkles, pigmentation will start to settle in and become embedded because it's all cumulative sun exposure that's starting to add up. Okay. And if you haven't started using retinal at 40s, it's never too late to try, is it? Oh, absolutely not. And, you know, some people, again, they're not massively wrinkly by 40s. So that's why there's a variation in it. Definitely 30s 40s is the time to be getting your retinal in.

Okay. And something that can affect skin in the 40s, which you touched upon with the dryness, is transepidermal water loss, isn't it? So how is it that the hormone effects, it causes that? Yeah. So estrogen, like I said, it's one of the main hormones. almost for hydration, and it is what keeps the skin bound. The second thing is that it does is it also controls the amount of ground substance in our skin, our extracellular matrix of our skin. And of that ground substance, our skin naturally also produces hyaluronic acid, and those levels start to taper off, which will also contribute to water loss.

And it's that trans-epidermal water loss that creates skin dryness. What are your thoughts on collagen boosting serums? because I know that there's a lot out there that are kind of marketed to the 40-year-old age group. Yeah, so collagen, I would say, is a massive protein. And firstly, there are lots of different types of collagen in the body. The skin contains type 1 and type 3 as its main types of collagen. A lot of the collagen containing skin care products, the molecule is too large that it will not penetrate through your skin.

So any of the benefits that you're getting from that product are probably from the vehicle that it's in. So it's the moisturising agents that are in it that are creating that temporary plumping up of the skin rather than the collagen itself. You know, your skin is a barrier. It's there to keep good things in and bad things out. And it's really effective at that. And the collagen will not get through. So I wouldn't waste your money on that based on the collagen. Okay.

And peptides is another buzzword for this age group as well, isn't it? What are your thoughts on those? So if you look at the clinical data on peptides, and I remember doing a long post on this one a while ago as well, there are lots of different peptides on the market, and they are not all created equal. The idea behind peptides are that peptides are small, broken up bits of protein. And what theoretically happens is if you have a peptide in your skin cream and you apply it to your skin, it sends off these messages to your deeper layers of skin to think, so your skin thinks a wound or a wound. injury has taken place. And your skin's apparent response to that is to then generate more collagen as a result in that resulting in thickening of the skin or dermal thickening in particular of your dermis.

If you look at actual clinical trial data on peptides, there are a handful that there is a little bit of data behind. And these are your matrikyne peptides. So they're the ones that often people will say are useful. So I think if you're looking out for a peptide-containing product, go for something tried and tested like Matrixel, which you will often find as an ingredient or Matrixel-3,000. But I think I would be very cautious as a general rule that peptides do what they say they do because there are just so many different types. They're not compared head-to-head, and I don't think the peer-review data is very good at all. Okay, so we need more data on that before we can confirm.

Yeah. And then 50s. So what tends to happen to the skin here? Yeah. So I think the 50s are a really interesting time, actually. And the reason I think that is because, firstly, life expectancy is increasing. Women are living longer and longer and longer. The second thing is our average age of menopause hasn't changed despite the fact that women are living longer.

So what this actually means is that women are now spending a much longer period of time in the menopause, than they've ever done before. Okay. And this is something that's been massively overlooked, even from a skin care point of view. But by the time you have hit the menopause, you are in a period of estrogen deficiency. Your collagen levels, I mean, sure, they decline slowly with each decade,

but there is a massive dip as soon as you hit the menopause. So people will notice that the skin will become very, very dry, and it will become sensitive for the first time. People may start to develop redness or rosacea. for the first time. So there are lots of issues that can occur with skin that hits the menopause. And the key things here, I would say, are firstly making sure that you are hydrating the skin appropriately. So you are using good quality moisturizers, phylonic acid serums underneath, if necessary. But in addition to that, I think you also

need to make sure that if your skin's become more sensitive, maybe opting for things that are fragrance-free. So nothing that contains lots and lots of oils or scents or smells in them, which may otherwise aggravate the skin. Okay. And is, I guess, for your 40s as well, if it starts to get dry, your skin starts to become drier. Should you look for moisturisers that contain seramides?

So seramides are actually useful across every decade, is probably what I would say. So what I would say is, seramides are a natural part of the skin and the skin barrier, and they do deplete as we get older. But seramides are useful for nearly everyone in terms of hydrating the skin. So yes, they can be particularly useful, 50s onwards,

but I think if you've got dry skin, everyone can benefit and incorporating a seramide-based moisturiser or face wash if they wanted to. And what is a seramide? So seramide is a natural part of the skin barrier that maintains its water and kind of controls water loss within and going out of the skin. It's essentially a lipid in the skin.

Does it work a little bit like somebody once told me It's a little bit like the grout within your tiles, so in that it works by, you know, stopping water, leaving your skin in that sense. If you think of your skin cells as the tiles. Yeah, or bricks. Or bricks. I feel it's a brick water model that we take to use.

So, yeah, the skin cells are the bricks, and then the stuff in between is the lipids that hold your skin cells together. Okay. Not specific to ceramides, but across the board. But could you buy a serumide cream that's 50 pounds and one for a five, and they're essentially the same,

because they both have seramides in. Yeah. So the thing with looking at individual products and ingredients is, I know it's become really popular just to purely buy skin care ingredients. And I know so many people, even friends of mine, that will go and they will just be like, I'm going to look at the inky list of everything. And I'm going to exercise a little bit of caution with that.

The reason being that often it is the final formulation as well that really matters. So if you look at most moisturizers, for example, they usually contain a mixture of ingredients and it's often that that mixture and the way that it's been put together and formulated that may make one product superior over another. And often price point, I agree, is not really what differentiates a good product

between a bad one. And then on top of that, we're also individual in what we like and what we don't like. I always say, look, if it works for you, get it, but you don't feel that you have to spend 50 pounds rather than five pounds. Okay. And I guess price is always relevant to the buyer

in that sense, isn't it? It's like if you can afford it and you want to spend that money fine, but if you can't, then some cheaper options work perfectly well in that sense. That's right. And I think the other thing as well to remember is skincare is also fun. And, you know, I think it's very easy to go down this route of like, I just want to buy things that are going to do things from my skin. But sometimes it's actually just nice to buy skincare because it looks nice or it smells nice

or it just makes you feel better like buying a new pair of shoes or whatever else it might be. So I think we shouldn't also like take the joy. out of skincare because I sometimes feel like I scroll social media. I'm like, when did it become serious? It's also supposed to be an enjoyable thing. Exactly. And that sort of ties into the whole self-care Sunday. You know, it's about that you dedicate that time to yourself. And like you said, you sit back and you relax and you enjoy it. Yeah. And just because we haven't touched on this yet, but where do you stand on facial oils? I don't personally like them. And I'm going to fully caveat this with the reason that I don't like them,

is because a lot of my practice is based on acne. And I see a lot of people that come in and they are covered in tiny little bumps on their skin or comodones or block pores. And when I ask them about their routine, there is always an oil in there somewhere, be that an essential oil or an oil-based cleanser. Now, I appreciate that there are probably loads of people out there

using them that never make it to my clinic and that I am seeing a selection bias of the people that are coming to me and I'm looking at it and going, oh, there's always an oil involved. But from a personal point of view, I think that there are lots of cleansers that are quite good that don't need an oil in them, that I would personally not use them. I would not, I don't recommend them and I don't like them. But that is a personal thing. And I will say that. Okay. Thank you. And finally, what is your number one rule for getting your best skin at any age? So this is a good question, actually. And what I'm actually going to say here is I actually think, One of the best ways is actually just to get proper expert advice to begin with.

Because one of the things that I think happens is that it's very easy to drop a lot of money on skincare. And even for the listeners, I would encourage you to think about how much have you spent on skincare products in the past one month, three months? Because there is often this idea that getting expert advice, be that from an aesthetician, be that from a cosmetic doctor, be that from a dermatologist, is very expensive. where it's very pricey. And I was almost being inclined to say to you, you're better of actually having someone look at your skin and tailor advice to you and then recommend what you need, then picking and choosing and matching and then not getting the results that you want, getting frustrated with it, and then having spent a load of money on it as well. Yeah. So I think the false economy is what I would say. So I think it might be just good to cut through the

noise, get the skincare advice from the expert to begin with. Brilliant. Thank you so much. Angelie, what a pleasure it has been to do this podcast with you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Oh, I so hope you found that one useful. God, it would like being in a chemistry lesson, but in a much more, much more engaging and much more fun way, as Angeli says, because skincare is fun. It's not something that we need to get stressed about. Anyway, if you did enjoy that episode, please do let us know. You can rate and review on Apple Podcasts, and remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcast so that you never miss an episode. Oh, and if you have a goal in mind, whether it's across fitness, general health, mental health,

nutrition or beauty, let us know. And we could be getting one of our experts to help you achieve your goal in an upcoming episode. All you need to do is send us a DM on Instagram. We're at Women's Health, UK, and just let us know what it is that you want to achieve. That is all for me for this week, but I will be back next week with another episode. Have a good one. Bye.