Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Abbie Ward: Rugby, Motherhood & Resilience

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

Abbie Ward joins Just As Well to talk about life as a Red Rose, the evolution of women’s rugby, motherhood, pregnancy and returning to elite sport. In this episode, Abbie opens up about her journey into rugby, the realities of professionalism in the women’s game, and what it was like becoming one of the first players in professional women’s rugby to navigate pregnancy and motherhood while continuing her career. She also shares why representation matters, how rugby makes space for different body types and strengths, and why balance is the key to wellbeing. In this episode: Abbie Ward’s route into rugby The growth of women’s rugby Playing for England and Bristol Bears Motherhood and returning to professional sport Training during pregnancy Mental resilience and balance Why sport is for everybody Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, I'm Gemma Atkinson. And I'm Claire Sanderson. We've just had a sit-down chat for Just as well with a female rugby legend. We did. So we interviewed Abby Ward. She is a Red Rose, a World Cup winning Red Rose. And many of you may remember those iconic images

of her taking her two-year-old daughter, Hallie, on the pitch after the girls won the tournament last summer. She plays for the Bristol Bears. She's won Umpeteen, 6.4. nations and she came in to talk to us about being a female rugby player the journey that got her there what it was like being pregnant and then returning to the professional game and the fact that she's now six months pregnant again she's still training she was going to a camp after speaking to us wasn't she was going to the england camp tonight she was brilliant she spoke

about mental resilience how much the game of rugby has changed for women and basically it was very inspiring about how rugby players are all different strengths, shapes, sizes, capabilities, they all have a role and how she was explaining that regardless of your shape, size, you have a sport for you.

She said you try the sport. If it's not right, you try another sport. She was really, really inspiring. She was brilliant. So enjoy this chat. And come on, England. Yes, and Wales. England. So Abby Ward, welcome to Just as well.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. What a thrill to have you here. I'm a massive rugby fan and a massive fan girl, especially of women's sports. So it's an absolute joy to have you with us today in our studio. Thank you. No, I'm excited to be here and talk all things, kind of women's health or rugby. Yeah. Well, let's go back to the beginning, if you could take us back. How did rugby and when did rugby first come into your life?

Yeah, I mean, I grew up in the Lake District in a place called Keseek, which, I was so lucky I was surrounded by activity, sport, and I just got involved in absolutely everything that I could throw my hand at, you know, tennis, hockey, netball. And I guess I was lucky to be one of those people who had the opportunity to play rugby. Because back then, you know, women's rugby, girls rugby, wasn't what it's become now, which is amazing.

So I started playing touch rugby, and from there really by accident, I just kept progressing and, you know, I went along to a contact game and then I played for county and then it was the north-west and then north rugby and then under 20s and rugby was never my intention. It wasn't a profession. It wasn't anything that I particularly wanted to pursue, but I reached my heights in every other sport and rugby just kept going. So it was kind of like, like you say, you just realise you were good at it, just did it come naturally two year or?

Yes and no. I think what I love about rugby is 1 to 15. There are so many different positions. There is a spot for absolutely everybody on the team. Shapes, sizes, skills, attributes. So I guess I just eventually found my niche, which is the second row, which is not the most glamorous. It's not the most exciting position.

But I love working hard. I love being part of a team. I love the line out, which is my space. speciality and it's really where I found and growing into, you know, I guess you talk about players X factor, that would be mine. So it has really kind of blossomed into this love story. When did you realise that you could make a career out of rugby? Yeah, now this is quite interesting because it wasn't till late on because it wasn't a profession, it wasn't a career. I went to university to study history and politics and I wanted to go

do law. Like I said, rugby wasn't professional and I was spending a lot more time in the gym and on the training pitch than I was in lectures. And I remember having a quite a candid conversation with my dad who said, you know, maybe you need to stop playing rugby and concentrate on university because rugby isn't a career. And I just found it incredibly frustrating because I was like, if I was your son, we wouldn't be having this conversation because I'd be earning loads of money and it was more the principle in my head. I just didn't sit well with me. I was in a group of players that, you know, we've pushed and pushed and we eventually got contracts awarded to us in 2017 for the World Cup. They actually got taken away after nine months

for a year and then reintroduced. So I've since been professional since when they got reintroduced in 2019. But in that group of players who kind of paved that way, from amateurism, into professionalism. So like I said, the reality was it wasn't a profession. It's kind of, we've made it a profession. It hasn't been easy. It's been ridiculously hard. But that's something that I'm really proud of being part of that cohort of players

that have paved that way. Because the contract system, isn't it different for the men and the women? So are you contracted to Bristol Biers but subcontracted to England? or is it vice versa? Yeah, the other way around. So we're centrally contracted to England. England. And then essentially seconded out to our clubs.

So the first professional contracts were with England. Yes. And then what's great is other nations started following suit. So then there was like the Scottish contracts, Welsh, Irish. And then, you know, the club game isn't professional yet. It's semi-professional. So there are contracts, but they're not, you know, a full living way. so they kind of supplement your international contract.

Is it the other way around for the men? So the men have contracts with their clubs? Yes. And then they are seconded to play for England? Yes, so they're contracted with their clubs. However, literally in the last year, I'd say, England have centralised quite a few of their players. So they've now got a big pool of players which they centrally contract to have, I guess, more control over. So the women who play for Bristol, Bath,

they're not fully professional, they're not paid a wage that can sustain them to have a normal function in life? A lot of them aren't paid a wage at all and it's a really interesting dynamic in women's rugby and in the premiership because I go in and my training day starts at maybe 2pm. We finish at 9, half 9 at night

because although I'll start and have the ability to do weights and skills in the day. A lot of the girls don't arrive until they've finished a full working day until, you know, five, half five and our full pitch session with the full team won't be until, you know, seven o'clock by the time everyone's finished work. So it's really hard dynamic to manage because you've got full professionals that are competing at the top level, and then you've got people who it's not a career for them and you need them to turn up, they play it because they love the sport. That's why we all play it. But you're asking a lot for them and it's definitely about accommodating everybody and being flexible

where you can be and like fueling and sleep and rest is part of recovery which in turn will help everyone play to their best ability and if they're juggling other jobs and everything else how no one's going to be on top form anyway without adequate sleep and rest. It's so hard and I think it's you know such a unique environment because you do have that and at the same time you've got a game where you've got some people playing because they love it but you've got some people whose livelihoods depend on that performance as well like because we're contracted to england we can't you know if we lose our job with england we can't go to scotland or wales and pick up another job that's the only way of being professional so if you lose that contract

then you've got to find a different career so it's so it's such a difficult dynamic but um yeah we make it work So you have to be test level rugby to make it your job and so you are the best of the best and if for some reason you fall out of favour with the coaching or your face doesn't fit for some reason then you're stuck? It's absolutely brutal but yeah that is the realities of it. Such pressure.

Yeah. Wow. It's clearly, I mean it is a lot of pressure but you despite everything like that despite all of that, you have won at the highest level. Talk us through that. I mean, the World Cup, you were there, weren't you? How was that?

It was everything you ever dream of. It was unbelievable. We knew that the World Cup was going to be big. I'm so lucky that was my third World Cup. So I played in 2017 in Ireland, 22 in New Zealand. And this World Cup and each one just got bigger and bigger. we knew that the crowds were growing because they have been in the Six Nations, but I don't think we anticipated just how amazing it was going to be.

I think add on to that. So in 2017, we played New Zealand in the final. We were up at halftime. We're going to lose, which was like, I'd say one of the first times I'd experienced proper heartbreak, like really. And then the final in New Zealand, it came down to the last play. And I was heavily involved in that. It was a line out which I think if I'd caught,

we would have won the World Cup. So we lose that in again, like, heartbreaking fashion. So it was the third time and it was like, we have to win. We have to. It's at home, like, this is our shot. Your time. And because we saw what, the effect that, you know, it had in New Zealand for them winning at home.

It was just, like I said, it was incredible. And I think the journey that I'd had from that World Cup going on to have my daughter come back to the game. and you know you can imagine these days in your life but to be there you know with my daughter pitch side for her to come on and hold the World Cup it was really like one of those moments which I feel like hasn't even really sunk in yet but yeah I'll look back on and yeah it was amazing well the images of you with Haley on that pitch became iconic as a symbol of what women can achieve because rugby is a brutal sport

and to get pregnant, go off, have a baby, return to the professional game very quickly. It was a matter of a few months and you were back playing professionally. And then go on to win a World Cup and take your... Just casual, yeah. Yeah, casually win a World Cup. Take your daughter, who was a toddler.

How old is she in those pictures? Yeah, two. Two, yeah. And for her to carry her around Twicken up, I was there that day. The noise was deafening in the most joyful way. It was across between a hen party and a kid's birthday party almost, wasn't it? The vibe was so positive and so joyous.

Different to the men's game when you go to Twickenham, because I've been to Twickenham countless times to watch the men's game, and it's a slightly different vibe there. It was so celebratory, and then to have your daughter in the middle of all that, and she may not remember that day, but she'll certainly see those pictures forever more. It was amazing, and I remember we were just sat there playing in all the streamers after the trophy ceremony and I said, oh, have you had fun? She's like, yeah.

And she's like, again. And I was like, oh, you want to do it again? She's like, yeah, again, again, again. I was like, Hallie, I want to do it again as well. Like it was amazing. And I think like you were saying, it was bigger than that. And for me, you know, you speak about as players, often we talk about our whys, what motivates us.

And I've always been so competitive. I've played at the top level because I want to be. the best in the world. I don't want to just turn up. I want to compete. I want to be the best person in my position in the world, want to go and win things. But, you know, as I've got older and your perspective broadens and definitely since becoming a mum, that changes. And I think we've now seen the impact that we can have. And like we talked about, it's now professional. It's actually like, okay, young girls like Hallie or my nieces are rugby mad can look at us and say, I want to go and do that

and they can do it now. So it was almost like the perfect full circle moment because it was also showing Hallie like this is what is there for you and there for women now. And it wasn't before but yeah, it's very special. You can't be what you can't see. Exactly. And you've got these girls.

We've spoken, we've had, several rugby players on this podcast. We've had Ellie last year, Ellie Kildern, and then late last year we had Holly Aitchinson, Amy Kakin, and Moena, Tallinn. And also wonderfully diverse

in their physicalities and their roles on the pitch. You know, if you know anything about rugby, you all got a job on that pitch to do and your body is built to do that role. But such different representation of female bodies, inspiring those younger girls

to say you don't have to look a service. way to play elite sports, you know, look at these women. They're so strong and so powerful, but they look so different. Absolutely. And I think that's, that's also how we grow the game. The sport and the rugby and the performances on the pitch will do, you know, will do their job. But it's also up to us to show the individuals, show the personality, show the characters, because a six-year-old girl at home might not be able to relate to what I'm doing in a scrum. But she might be like, oh, actually, I like the way. that Abby's got her hair or I heard there was this one one girl that said which is the mummy I want

to watch the mummy and she didn't particularly like rugby but she was like oh that's the mummy I'm literally want to watch because she's a mummy or you know when I went and did CBB's bedtime stories which was again amazing because hally can watch that but the amount that are like oh I'm now want to watch it because that woman that read that bedtime story I can watch her play rugby and just as people might relate to like Holly's fashion or what Amy does with her roles with the RAF, you know,

it's about showing the individuals for more than just the rugby player that they are. Yeah. What, when you found out you were pregnant and you realised, what went through your mind as an athlete, as a woman whose body is a tool to compete to perform?

What went through your mind? because obviously it's the most wonderful thing to have a baby. But was there ever a moment when you thought, oh my God, what's going to happen with work now? I think, you know what? Ignorance is bliss. I didn't know what I was getting myself in for. And that's because prior to myself and another player, Vicky Cornborough,

who we were both pregnant at the same time, there had been no players in the professional era that had kids. So we were like the first people. and there wasn't even a maternity policy in place fit for purpose for professional rugby players. So that got introduced and we went through it. So I didn't really know what to expect. Didn't know how it would look, how it would look with training, how would look with my return. Like I say, I think ignorance was bliss.

It was like, okay, we're just going to go with it and see what happens. I was really lucky that, you know, everything went to plan. I had a C-section, which was planned because Hallie was always going to be a big baby. who's like the 98th percentile or something. And I got back to play in 17 weeks post, but I had a great team around me, but it was very much just learning as you go. And I think maybe naively,

I thought that was going to be the hardest bit, getting back to play in, but I think it's definitely been the biggest challenge is adapting as essentially a working parent. I think, yeah, physically it is very challenging, but I think like the mental sound. of parenting, the logistics, just all of it is so tough. It's constantly changing, isn't it?

You constantly having to adapt. You think you've got it nailed for two weeks and then everything changes again. And that's the bit that kind of no one really tells you about or because there was no other mums in the squad. I just had no understanding, whereas now what's brilliant is I'm pregnant with my second baby and there's another couple of girls in the squad that are too and it's like oh we can go through it together yeah yeah and it's that whole like you say it's the demand at home that you have when you're a parent because that never switches off

you never ever stop I mean when my kids aren't me aren't with me I'm forever thinking are they okay even when they were the dad or my mom I'm still like well they're not with me so it's hard because obviously you need to switch off momentarily to perform on the pitch you can't like take anything like that onto the pitch so it's the mental juggle like you say of both. I can imagine he's tough. And England were great. It's quite funny because I talk about during the World Cup.

So I knew the games that I was playing and when I wasn't and when I'd see Hallie because it's a long time away from home and it's a long time away from her at that critical age when they're kind of just starting to understand that suddenly you're not there. And in the Northampton week

I wasn't due to play. So I was like this is a perfect time to bring her into camp so she could come in with my husband stay in camp and I didn't have to be so stressed out about playing and the demands of the game on the weekend. On the Saturday when we were playing Samoa, my husband was busy, all our family were busy, so Hallie was essentially with us with the team. Now I wasn't playing but I was due to warm up as what you call a non-playing reserve. So Hallie came along with Amy Kakin and Alex Matthews.

I'm packed to pack lunch. I said, okay, you can go with them on the bus because I've got to go early. she came along as just a part of the team Alex was carrying a potter potty because we were potty training her at the same time they sat just in front of the coach's box you know I was warming up and then after I finished my warm up I went up and joined

and like you wouldn't expect that that would happen at the time when you're at World Cup it's the pinnacle of performance yet the culture and the program allows me to just be who I am which is a mum and they like the coach had no problem feeding a Harry bows. I'm like, please stop.

You don't want to bouncing off the walls. Stop. And you just can't imagine. You couldn't imagine, you know, men's rugby, you know, them bringing their kids along when they're playing at a World Cup. But yeah, there's something I think really special about the Red Roses and how we kind of embrace that. We were looking at your social media earlier on this footage on there of

Harley's lap. That was that name. Yeah. sort of dancing or the hands or something. So that was at that game because I was like, Amy, you're in charge. Hallie loves Amy. She's her favourite player.

We love Amy. She's so funny. And so yeah, she was with them whilst I was warming up and then for the game. So, yeah. Can you imagine being around all these amazing women? I know, it'd be like gladiators, wouldn't it? It's like Amazonian gladiator women

who were just all bossing it. It must feel amazing to know that you're part of that next generation of Hallie's generation of stepping into it without the fear of feeling, this is a bit weird for me to play rugby, without the feeling of having to start playing on the boys' team until they got too big for them,

without the feeling of having to, you know, shy away from it. It's like, yeah, my mum was a top rugby player, so I'm going to do the same. Yeah, I think she's totally unimpressed by me, but I think what I feel very privileged about is rugby as a sport, like I said, one to 15, like all different attributes, but all different shapes and sizes

and it's such a healthy environment to be in so for me to be able to bring her into the changing room and her be surrounded by like that it's amazing because growing up is tough for a girl especially this day and age with all social media and I think rugby creates so many amazing healthy role models and like I said for me to be able to bring her into that environment

is just pretty amazing Well, the culture around rugby generally is so supportive, isn't it? I have two children, my son's nearly 14, and he plays very good level rugby for his age, but he's also a very good footballer. And the difference between what surrounds football and some of the parents and the pressure they put on the kids and the ag compared to rugby is stark. You know, it's just a very supportive sport, I think, where everyone's applauded. Opposition supporters will applaud players from the other team doing something wonderful.

I just think it's a great sport to be involved in generally. It is. And I also love how, you know, the different cultures within rugby are so celebrated. My daughter, she's just started rugby tots. Yeah, at the end of the session, they do this rugby hacker. So I was then explaining to I was like oh look I'll show you the black ferns against the red roses

I'll show you us you know with the hacker and I was like oh you know in Moana when they do like similar dances it's all from the same and then we're lucky we've got Ruey DeMont who is the Black Ferns co-captain at Bristol Bears so then I could explain oh look we call a Lou Ruwe

I was like Lou look at her doing the hacker and you can kind of learn there's all these different segues into learning stuff like that which was just really special again so you're pregnant with your second your 21 weeks as we're speaking now so well that's you're not between five and six months yes my maths is that right yeah yeah yeah yeah sounds right we're all looking a bit back on I've got a math in school how have you found this pregnancy compared to your first yeah completely different in terms of um obviously when

you are pregnant and you've got no kids at home. For me, I could train as much as I want in the day and then I could just recover sleep as much as I wanted. Throw that out the window when you've got a two-year-old that you're trying to wrangle at home. It's much more difficult. And then again, with Hallie, I had really bad morning sickness throughout the pregnancy,

even like the week of. This has been a little bit more. So I actually ended up in hospital over Christmas with it. So that's always been a challenge, But I feel like you just kind of get on with it. It's something that I've probably learned through training and playing and rugby that you just, yeah, you kind of grit your teeth. Yeah, crack on.

And I think it's knowing why it's happening. I think you can kind of do a mental flip and think this is awful. And I feel like absolute shite temporarily. But it's because my body's growing a human. So I think you have to, you know, I didn't have any with Mia, my first, with Tio, I was quite sickly with him. and it just comes off like a wave and I used to feel like I was sat in the back of a car,

a hot car and I'd be like, oh my gosh. And I'd be like, well, I'm growing a human, this is what happens. And you kind of can talk yourself out of just coming round of it. But has, I mean, your training must have changed when you were expecting, although we have seen videos of you when you were pregnant with Hallie,

just still sprinting and doing all kinds, which it's like Tia Claire to me, the CrossFit, she's still, her waters broke, doing wall, actually and she trained and I think if it's something you've always done yes it's encouraged that you can still move during pregnancy and I think that's where you know narratives are changing I think people are opening their kind of mindsets to it in that you can you know do your normal I think when I first found out I was pregnant with

Hallie you know you go on to Google and straight away it says don't lift heavy objects don't be fatigued you know all these things it's like well that That's my job. That's what I do. That's what I enjoy doing. That's what actually makes me feel good. So I was able to continue training. So obviously not the rugby contact aspect, but I continued skills, weights, conditioning throughout the pregnancy. I think my last session was on the Tuesday and I had Halle on the Thursday. So yeah, I tried to maintain as much as I could because I knew that I wanted to return as fast as I could. so I knew all the work that I'd do in the bank prior would help me post. And it's the mental side of it, if you feel good moving,

you know, it made me laugh when they're saying, don't lift. And if you've already got a child at home, who's not yet able to get in and out the car on their own or up and down the stairs, you think, well, I have to lift. I have to lift my other child up despite being eight months pregnant. You have to, you know, do these things. I think for me, it's physically it was so important, but mentally it was so important.

and I think particularly sport has so many huge mental benefits but being part of a team as well I wanted to stay connected to that team because that is, you know, that's what I love doing. Like I am a team member I still wanted to contribute

and I would hate the thought of suddenly being taken away from that and isolated so it was really important to keep connected I think for the benefits. Are you still managing to train with this pregnancy or is the sickness getting getting to you a bit.

No, I am. I am still managing to train. Obviously, I don't know if you can see on the camera my boot. Boot. Nice moon boot. I managed in essentially a static skill session to fall over.

So I've done some ligaments in my ankle. So already, you know, it's about adapting, changing. That might be the end of my running for this pregnancy if I can't get back to running before, you know, essentially it doesn't make sense for me to run. So yeah, a little bit different already, but you just change the plan. You look at what you can do.

You accommodate around it. And yeah, it's just about being flexible, I think. And do you foresee yourself going back to professional rugby after this pregnancy? Definitely, yeah. I think I've still got a bit more to give. I think there's, obviously, they've announced that there's a Lions tour next year for the first time ever, the British and Irish Lions. have a women's team that tour into New Zealand, which would be incredible.

It's one of those things that, like professional contracts and like playing for England, it always seemed that it would never become a reality. It's become a reality. It's going to be a real tough ask because it will be about a year between having my second and the tour. So whether I can get back to the standards to be selected, you know, get into an England shirt and then put my hand up, but that's going to be my goal. I hope that Lions team is not just England in a Lions talk. It definitely won't be.

So many people say that, it definitely won't be. There's some outstanding players in all the other nations. And I think it would be incredible to get them all together. How exciting. Well, we are speaking just after the men's Six Nations and before the Women's Six Nations kicks off. You mentioned you're going into camp tonight with the girls. There's something very special about the Six Nations, isn't it?

It's actually my favourite time of year. I prefer it to Christmas. I just love watching rugby. Part of you gutted that you're not taking part in it? You know what? I think because you know it's such a good reason why you're not. I think, and you know from, well, I knew fairly early, you just switch modes and you suddenly go from a player to just the biggest fan.

And I'm just so excited to watch the games. I think they've literally just announced today. They've sold 70,000 tickets so far. for the England Island game. That's amazing. Hopefully, who knows it could be a sellout, which would be absolutely incredible. I was in the stands when the Red Roses

had their first kind of big game, 58,000 against France at Twickenham, with Sophia Lyspexra at halftime, and what a day that was. It was unbelievable. Sun was shining, it was just a party atmosphere, like you said. And it was just really special

to be on the other side of it, to be in, you know, as a spectator, watching the girls get off the bus and I think it gave me, like I said, a different perspective, but a different appreciation for what the girls are doing because when you're playing and you're in the zone and you're so focused, you know, it's very, you're on task. Whereas to be outside of that, be part of the fans,

you can really appreciate the atmosphere and how much it means to everybody else and, you know, that the game is much bigger than yourself. So I'm excited to just sit back and be a fan. You're going to get the cowboy hat that we all tend to wear you. Definitely. Definitely.

To get a hally one. Yeah, she'd love that. Obviously like you said, nearly 70,000 tickets sold already. A lot has changed in women's rugby since you started out. There's still a long way to go. What, in your opinion, still needs to change

in the game of female rugby? Yeah, so it really has changed. My first game back in 2015 was Wales away. we lost in Swansea in front of maybe 200 people. You fast forward and it definitely wasn't professional. You fast forward now to the professionalism, the 70, 80,000 people watching standalone games. It's unbelievably different, but I think there just needs

to be continued investment across all the nations. It's great when there's a World Cup because you have this amplified visibility, investment, innovative, all of this, but it can't just be for one tournament. If you want to really capture the momentum that's created, you've got to continue to do it. We've got to see it. All of that increased in the PWR in the premiership

and then across the Six Nations and to, I guess, ride that wave of momentum. So have the same across the board. Yeah, I think the resources across all the nations that just needs to continue to be invested and at grassroots level as well because without the grassroots and without the girls coming through, there aren't any red roses.

So I think that's hugely important. But, you know, we've made strides, but let's keep going, I think. And the investment can't just be in England either. I can't, no. You know, it needs to be, state at the WRIU at the moment, but the investment needs to be there to help those girls become fully professional. So they too. Definitely.

And that's what we want to see. And that's what's great is, you know, England were one of the first. to go with contracts but then that's pushed the other nations to do the same you know when we introduced our maternity policy we spoke to other nations that had policies in place and then since then you've seen Scotland Island and Wales all adopt similar policies and whatever we can do to keep pushing I guess the standards of rugby might also help other nations push their standards of rugby so yeah everybody can be elevated equally what would you say to a young girl who thinks sport is not for me

I'm not the right fit for sport? You've not tried the right sport yet there is a sport out there for absolutely everybody I truly truly believe that a sport, a position you know like my own experience I played every sport there was I kept finding my ceiling and tried a different sport

eventually found the one that was for me and I think it's not just about the sport as well It's not just about the playing, it's about what it gives you, which is much bigger than that, that sense of family, that sense of purpose, that discipline, that your tribe. I think that's what sport gives you. So there is a sport out there for everybody. And teamwork as well.

I think that the skills that you learn in team sports when you're a child can set you up for life. Well, there's that stat isn't there about girls who play sport are more likely to go on and into leadership roles. within businesses. There was a start out, it was a women's health one, wasn't it? There's a percentage of girls from age 14.

They drop out of sport, a high number of them, because of changes physically in their body in terms of the, you know, they have the growth spurt, the hips change, the boobs could grow, whichever. And a lot of them drop out of sport in fear of just looking different.

And I think sports like rugby, where, like you say, every physical shape, size has a purpose. I think that's fantastic because it's not like I don't know when you watch volleyball and they're all in the little tiny shorts and they all look so deep

you think well that's not for me yeah I can't play that if you've not got big shoulders I can't box yeah you will see someone that you can relate to yeah one to 15 for sure

what does it talk you about yourself not just physically but mentally we've seen we saw on your Instagram that massive cut you had I'd have been in tears like wanting my mum, you were just dealing with it. Do you think that's down to rugby as well? Do you have like a mental?

Or did you always have the mental resilience? I think it's something that, you know, my family kind of taught me growing up, that work hard, play hard mentality, you know, being resilient, finding a way to make things happen. But then it's definitely, you know, through rugby, through hard work. I remember when I was in age group, you know, maybe picking up a knock here or there.

And, you know, I learned, I soon learn that there's a difference between being hurt and being injured. And you can be hurt, but you can play on. But being injured actually might not hurt as much, but you can't. So for me, a nick on my forehead. A nick, that's what you would describe that.

It was like a two inch like gash. We both looked at him and went, oh God. Yeah, well, it happened. twice so it happened I've got two of them they're right next to each other it's not even the same one about a year apart oh god no no

that's not for me you'll just watch I'll watch but watching my son who's he's six foot and 13 you can be a fan of rugby but it's different when you're watching your own child because at his age now there's some big lads and the contact is coming in

fast and fierce So it's, I watch for the little one eye closed, but I am a massive fan. Yeah. So, and I am going to be at England Island. Amazing. Supporting England, which you might find a surprise with my accent. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.

For the boys, I'm afraid it has to be Wales through and through because that's how I was drilled growing up. Yeah. But for the girls, I support England. So when Wales are playing England, well, I'll spot Wales when they're playing you. Okay, yeah. But I'm one of those childish supporters for the male game

when it's anyone but England? Yes. I'm one of those. There was that advert, wasn't there, when it was all these players, all these fans in their Irish and Welsh and Scottish and Italian and they're going, England. And at the end it said,

it's not who you want to win, it's who you want to lose. Yeah, yeah. Everyone wants England to lose. I could show you a picture on my phone. This is how childish me and my son are. We don't mind my son was born in Winchester, has an English father.

We went to watch England be the all blacks, the male men, wear an all blacks t-shirts. we've got no link at all to New Zealand. And then England beat the All-Flack, so... You just don't want to sit there and... It's all these things. But, no, when the Wales women are playing,

I will obviously support them, but when England... Because we've met quite a few of you now, and I was at the World Cup final last year. I went to a couple of games, actually, in the World Cup last year, and I am going to watch... What I'm hearing is...

You're just a glory supporter, is this right? No, no, no! I'm a big supporter of women's sport and I do truly, all the women's rugby players we've met have been absolutely gorgeous. Oh, they've been such a blast. It's been brill. Yeah.

Yeah. I particularly love Amy. I thought she was really good fun on our podcast. Amy's one of my top mates. Yeah. She was good. I remember seeing the videos of you with Hannah Bob. Yes.

At the World Cup and you were sharing a room, weren't you? And some of your content was hilarious. She is lots of fun. Yeah. I went from Sarah Hunter. Hunter was my roommate for about seven years. So like the most professional, you know, captain, reliable person that you could meet to Hannah Bottoman.

Now, I'm not saying that Hannah's unprofessional, but she's just chaotic in the best type of way. So it was very much like Sarah Hunter used to kind of look after me and I was the maybe the chaotic roommate, whereas it's just rolls reverse now and, yeah, I try to keep bots on the straight. narrow try. With another thing being around all the girls, was it Ellie who said to us the great thing

is that they train around your cycle? Was it Ellie who said they incorporate different sessions? Yeah, it was because Lucy Bronze said that we interviewed Lucy Bronze, the footballer and she said that the England football is definitely taken into account all the cycles and they were tracking them, etc. And then we spoke to Ellie about it and they said it is taken into consideration that certain times in the month that you have more power. you use it as your superpower as opposed to it being a negative thing yeah definitely because there are

certain times of your cycle where you can you will lift more you'll be you know more more on it um we do track our cycles all the time and and your symptoms and um work with the medical team if there's anything that can be done to help alleviate symptoms or you know if you're struggling like it is um taken into account whereas you know previous years you wouldn't even discuss periods You just hide it that you're right now. It's like very much that's part of life. It's been brill having you

but we always ask like our guess what does well-being mean to you if you were to look at yourself as a mother as an athlete as a woman how would you describe well-being for you?

I think for me balance balance is the absolute key and I have to remind myself of that all the time. I think I try to be everything to everyone and that's impossible. So it's about balance and becoming a mum has really given me that as well. I think as an athlete you can be so caught up in performance and what's happening on the pitch but Hallie doesn't care if we win or lose. She doesn't care if I've dropped a ball or had a bad game. She really gives me that purpose and balance and I think that makes me

a better person so physically and mentally well Abby thank you so much for coming in to see us and good luck with with baby number two I hope the sickness subsides at any time now but enjoy going into camp tonight and enjoy the Six Nations but before we let you go we have some quick fire questions okay hit me question number one myself and clara come into your house tonight for dinner what's on the menu what are you going to make us i'm at camp so dave my husband's probably going to make you a chili he doesn't make you nice chili yeah jalapinos all the extras on it lovely the garlic bread i was making you i'd make you a risotto nice yeah yeah takes a lot of time though a risotto doesn't yeah that's like my pre-match so that's you'll make a lot of it nice you're going to a desert island for one year. You can only take one thing and it can't be a loved one. You really do need to be on your own.

What are you going to take? How quick fire are these? What am I going to take? A bottle? Probably. I'd just be thinking about water. Okay. Keeping hydrated. For the rest of your life you can only drink one of these coffee or wine coffee. Yeah. Nice. Everyone goes coffee don't they? Yeah, they do. Very few people good wine yeah but also healthy these days what's the last thing that made you belly laugh i'd say the last thing that made me belly laugh was just how ridiculous obviously managing to fall over in a static session and do my ankle and end up in the physio room along with um bots at the same time which was just a bit ridiculous yeah i don't think the physios appreciate it he does look like a character and uh lastly what's one thing someone can do to make themselves feel

better today. Read something. Anything. Just, yeah, I think there's lots of amazing stuff that's written down. Even if it's on, you know, an Instagram, a little insight, something in a magazine, read something. Women's health. Read women's health. Disract yourself with women's health. Well, thank you so much for coming in today. And I hope you can be able to come as soon. Thank you. Thanks for having me, guys. Good luck with everything. Thank you very much.