Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Angela Scanlon on Motherhood, Burnout and Learning to Slow Down

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

This week on Just As Well, Gemma Atkinson sits down with broadcaster, author and podcaster Angela Scanlon for a deeply honest conversation about motherhood, burnout and finding balance. Angela shares how she accidentally fell into television, the relentless drive that pushed her career forward, and the moment becoming a mother forced her to confront parts of herself she had been running from for years. In this episode, Angela opens up about her experience with eating disorder recovery, using work as a coping mechanism, and the seven years she spent in therapy learning how to rebuild her relationship with herself. Gemma and Angela also talk about: • The messy reality of motherhood • Work addiction and burnout • Raising confident daughters • Body image and growing up in the media spotlight • Wellness habits, gratitude and daily rituals • Why women need permission to fail and try again It’s a funny, warm and refreshingly honest conversation about ambition, healing and the pressure women carry — and why sometimes the best advice you can give your younger self is simply: you’ll be alright. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, I'm Gemma Harkinson. And I'm Claire Sanderson. And I've just recorded an episode of Just as well. You didn't do this one, did you? We flipped, reversed it, the rolls. We did. So you took the lead on this one. Although you always take the lead, I think.

No, it's 50, 50, but you were feeling under the weather. Yeah, I didn't feel like. You're doing a lot. I couldn't bring my best self to it. So I stepped out because I didn't want to bring down the vibe. Well, it was with the lovely Angela Scanlan, and she was brilliant. She's been really open and, honest about her journey into this crazy industry, how she had and got over an eating disorder.

Do you say got over, recovered from an eating disorder, I should say. Her struggles with motherhood at the start compared to now, how she views herself, how she's raising her daughters. She said some really interesting stuff, things that I didn't even know about her. But she's also very relatable and just really likable. She's a girl's girl, which I like about Angela. And she was wearing the most fabulous necklace. A massive. She told me that necklace was sent over from someone in Mexico.

Wow. Yeah, it was huge. It was really good. Yeah. So for anyone who's maybe struggling with a bit of postpartum struggles or where is it at the minute or, you know, you're struggling with your food or you just want a bit of reassurance that despite everything that goes on, things will be okay.

That's one of the things she said to me. She'd tell her younger self, you'll be all right. Just chill the F out because you'll be all right. That's Angela's advice. Enjoy this episode of Just as Well. Hi, I'm Gemma Atkinson and welcome to another episode as Just as well. It's just myself today because Claire's a little bit ill, bless her.

She's tried to power through, but alas, it's the lurgis brought her down. But I am joined by a very, very incredible guest today. It's someone who's reinvented herself more times than most people dare to try. You will know this lady's voice from Virgin Radio, her honesty from her own podcast, Get a Grit with Vicky Patterson, and her unmistakable energy from years and years on our screens. But behind the career highs is a lady who's been through

knockbacks, imposter syndrome, work addiction, eating disorders, unlike most of us, motherhood's messy extremes. This is about her journey back to compassion and balance. She's funny, she's fear, she's open, and completely herself. It's Angela Scanlan. Yay. We're clapping ourselves.

Welcome to Just as well. I mean, that's quite an intro. That's quite the list. Well, you've got quite the resume. Do you know what I mean? You have been on our screens for a long, long time. I've been knocking around for a bit. And you're still knocking around.

You're one of the ones with longevity. Well, I like to think so. I feel like I'm only getting going, really. So, yeah. Where did it all start for you? Where did your career in Tully start? Was it an easy ride into it or was it something that you wanted and, you know? I mean, I say it was accidental, which is really annoying because like it's not really.

But I don't think I ever sat as a kid and really thought I'd love to be on telly. I watched telly. And I think maybe somewhere deep down I went, oh, that's a bit of me. But, you know, it was not in my family. I grew up in the country. I was like, it was not a thing that I imagined. was possible, I suppose. Yeah.

And so I went in all sorts of directions. I studied business and then I started like selling. I set up a little stall selling handbags and bits and pieces that I found in charity shops. And through that, I started doing personal shopping as an assistant to somebody. And then she worked in like the equivalent of Westfield in Ireland. And they said, oh, would you come on tell you the two of you to talk about fashion at the Oscars? I was like, yeah, grand. Yeah, there's no biggie, can do.

And so, and I just remember going into the studio and it was live and they're like excitement and terror and thrill and danger is what it felt like. I was like, oh my God. And then I thought, oh, this is a bit of me. You've got the book then. Yeah, and so from there I started, I mean, genuinely pestering anybody who had any sort of indirect link to that world,

I would meet somebody and they'd say their mother worked for a product. I would find the number, I'd ring them, I'd say I know this woman who had met for seven minutes in a coffee shop. And I just was pitching things relentlessly. I was like, oh, once I found it, because I was quite late to it, I thought, oh, right, if I want this, I need to go for it.

I love that. You took the opportunity of yourself to do all of that. Because a lot of people kind of sit back and wait for something to happen. But you were active in your, this is what I want, this is what I'm going to go after. Yeah. And you succeeded. Well, I was very, I would say, I was, like, relentless. And also wildly naive.

Like, I hadn't got a clue what I was doing. And so I kind of, it was at the beginning of YouTube. And so I'd, like, meet this lad in a bar. He'd say, oh, we're doing YouTube things. You're into fashion, aren't you? And I'd suddenly be on the side of Grafton Street, interviewing people about what they were wearing. And then I kind of, yeah, I would email agents and be like,

you really should think about me. And, I mean, obviously they said no. But I genuinely had this, like, wild kind of unfounded belief that was built on nothing, really. but that I was like, I think I can do this. I think I'm supposed to do this weirdly. And I'd never felt that ever in anything I had ever done. I would say I had felt kind of endlessly lost and, you know, moving but never quite sure if it was in any sort of direction that was helpful or useful or right.

And something clicked for me. And I mean, it was important. It's a tough old gig. I was late to the game. I was trying to shave years off my age so I could like pass as the young one. And I mean I was young. Yeah, I was going to say you're still young.

I just at the time I thought, oh my God, I really needed to be sub 30 like to be a young thing. It was really important in my mind that I had made it by the time I was 30. I mean, obviously that didn't happen. And off the back of all that graph that you put in, out there's TV shows

you've done strictly you've got your own podcast your Virgin Radio did you ever envision it going that far or were you just happy with your little YouTube kind of like you say

Grafton Street side hustle bits oh no I definitely had big ideas like you know I was doing it all and I did it all I was so excited by it and I think that's the kind of secret

maybe is if you can, whatever job you're doing, feel like a level of energy and excitement when you're getting up and going to it every day. And so I felt that because, you know, it was, it was new and it was kind of impossible. And it was so unlikely that that felt really freeing because I thought there's literally, I've got nothing to lose. Like there's such, it's such a long shot that any of this would happen. And so I just kind of, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I just kind of went for it. But there were moments where I had done certain things and where I would look around and go,

okay, best case scenario here, that's the gig. And I was like, I don't think that's going to, that's for me. You had like a minute. You knew you wanted to do more. I knew I wanted something bigger, you know. And so like I couldn't get an agent in Ireland. I started, you know, traveling over here, meeting people, cold emailing agents being like,

Have a look at me YouTube. I don't have a YouTube. I totally missed that boat, but it was like Style Nation. It was called and... That's a good title. Oh yeah. And so, yeah, I just...

I remember emailing Charlotte Moore at the BBC. It's a big one to email. I know, but only now am I mortified by that. But at the time I was like, she's a busy woman. How would she know about me? So I was like, hey, you know, this is what I've been up to.

We should grab a coffee. Needless to say, I never heard bad from her. But, you know. No, but you did it. And I think that's brilliant because so many people, I think especially females, we're fearful of taking that first step into something we want. Even in terms of if it's a lad we like at school,

you're not going to go and tell him. Well, we're kind of trained to sit and wait for the proposal. Wait for him to ask you to dance. Wait for him to, you know, it's very much we're supposed to. to sit back and be chosen. Yeah, as opposed to actively say, this is what I want, this is what I can provide,

this is what I can offer, this is what I can bring to this company or this business or this idea. And I think, I mean, one of the reasons we wanted you on this podcast is because you are so relatable to so many ladies in terms of you've got kids and you're not afraid to show

the messy struggles of motherhood. Yeah. It's frigging hard work, babe. Honestly, I was coming out the door today going, oh God, like the schoolrunner, harrowing some more things. Because how are you got

two daughters? Two daughters. Three and seven. About to be four and eight kind of. So they're in that space. And like Sass. Yeah.

You know, two girls. And I adore them and I absolutely love it as a gig. It definitely took me time. It was not instant for me. I feel like it was a role that I've grown into.

Yeah. Which is not an easy thing to admit or to experience. But I think think is actually something that women will relate to because I do think sometimes it is it's instantaneous

and it's like you know duck to water and it does feel really natural and feels like the kind of reason for being and I don't know that I had that going into motherhood I was quite nervous really I was

I was kind of nervous about the whole were people suddenly then expecting me to wear floral dress do home baking and do the bake sales at school and be the one who has the best Halloween costumes and makes and I was the complete opposite in terms of I remember bringing me a home from the hospital and my mum was around and my sister and Gawker's family and everyone was lovely and and when they left and it was me Gorka and Mia we kind of said what what do we do now like you you have to keep this little being alive and well and stable but at the same time make sure you're

okay but my hormones are all over the place. I had a big nappy pad on. I felt like shit and I was like, what am I supposed to do? It's such a roller coaster and you feel I kind of felt it stages a little bit guilty for feeling certain things. Yeah, I totally relate to that and I think it's really hard in those moments because you know, it's changing but I think mostly you see those Instagram versions where everyone is just in the, you know, hazy love bubble. where there is no sense of time. And that's like maybe something I experienced briefly on my second child because I literally ring fenced it

and kind of made allowances so that I could have some of that version, you know. But I think it is. Like you know that term matressence? Yes, yes. We just don't really think about that period where the baby is born. but the mum has also been born. But like it's brand new. It's brand new.

You're, you know, like you're kind of raw and tender in all senses of that word. And there you are. And the door shuts and you head off with the little carry cot and no manual and no guide and no confidence because you haven't built that yet. And I think it is. Like for me certainly it was a. a real, it was tricky because I think I had worked like I had been working at pace.

That was very much my identity. And so just suddenly kind of stop. Everything kind of stopped and all the things that I'd been running away from for a really long time kind of landed with me at that same time. So they were kind of blurry. But I remember feeling,

guilty that I didn't um like the version I had was this is the most beautiful wonderful magical thing to find someone you love to be lucky enough to be able to you know create life together and for it all to go well and you have this perfect little baby and I thought oh wow this is you know what it's all about is going to change my perspective of all these things. And actually, the difficult thing was that I didn't, I couldn't really feel very much at all. And that was the, that was the hardest thing for me was reaching what should have felt at least to me like joyful. The expectation that's put on all. Yeah. Or maybe that, yeah, the, yeah, the expectation. and also my desire for that feeling.

You know, I think I really, I looked for that everywhere. So I had looked for it previously in work, but I thought, oh, okay, hang on a second. Work can't get me that. That's external. And then I just thought, oh no, this is real life, actually. Little family is real life. This will make me feel. It will make me feel whole and complete and content.

And it didn't. It kind of highlighted the absence of those feelings in me, which really, you know, now I can speak to it with a little less emotion, I suppose, but it kind of prompted me to sort myself out a bit, truthfully. But I think everything you're saying, there'll be so many mum's listening now currently in that situation. But, you know, we spoke to an expert on this podcast and she explained to us the hormone shitstorm in your body. you have a child, not only through, you know, some people have a traumatic birth, which they're trying to process that whilst trying to be active and love into this child, those who have an easy birth and, you know, care, you know, not a carefree birth, no birth is easy, but like stereotypical textbook.

Textbook birth. They can still feel it because it's just a chemical shift in your brain chemistry, your biology, physically you're different, but you're expected to go home and be like, who yes this is this is brill um how did how did you navigate kind of going back to work because i know i had a year off with mea and with tio i only had nine months i wish to have done yeah but i had you know in our job it's the self they call you a self-employed you're afraid if you don't go back the work's not going to wait there's going to be another presenter coming along there's going to be another person doing it so you it's the

that balance of you want to be home and present for your kids, but you also don't want to lose out on any gigs because you have to look after and pay for your kids. How did you navigate that? Not very well. That makes two of us at least. I would say. I had, yeah, I mean, I've, the, a job that was due to return was not commissioned two days after I got home from the hospital. So that in my head, I had kind of mapped out my return, which would have been four months, which, you know, in itself felt kind of tight. But then, yeah, as soon as I came home, I was like, oh, oh, wow, okay, I actually don't have a job. And so I went back quickly.

Yeah. You know, and weirdly my husband was just talking about it the other day. I was doing early breakfast radio on radio too. And so I think I needed to be in there. Was I on air at five office? off at half six. So I would leave, I just remember setting my alarm

for half three and I would wake and in the dark because I didn't want to wake him up I would pump in and then I would leave the little bottles because I'd double whammy it.

I'd leave them outside the door so that when like my daughter woke up he could feed her and then I would go do the job and come back with my boobs literally like that.

So look, it was wild. It was wild. And I think you know, yeah, hormonely, I would have been all over the place. But also I was kind of I was a bit manic, you know? That like, because I think a lot of the time for people like I said, that loss of time, that sense

of time slowing down, right? And a day lasting forever for good or bad. Oh yeah. And sleep deprivation on top of all of it. Yeah, it's like very discombobulating, isn't it? Yeah. Like usual rhythm. If you used to fast pace, then suddenly it's like cold turkey.

It's like everything has been kind of turned down. And so my mind then went into overdrive. And so I think I was used to running at pace. So what I needed in order to feel kind of normal or in control or somewhat sane was to like just keep moving. So I would say I moved a bit fast. And you said obviously your world imploded when you became a mum and you knew then it was the time to sort yourself to get help. How did you go about getting help for anyone who's maybe in the same situation you were in?

So I think it's difficult because I use that word and I referenced it in my book and in hindsight I'm like, oh way, that feels so like it feels so loaded and maybe dramatic. And also, I feel like it's not a nice thing to say or for my daughter to hear, for example. But I think I remember feeling like everything I knew, I no longer knew. The person I thought I was was no longer there. But also, I think I, there was a grief in that it was an impetus for me to change my life and my way of being that I could not give myself. I was giving it to her. So knowing that, oh, wow, I don't really like myself enough to actually do this for myself. I needed the motivation and the love I felt for her was what prompted

me to get help that I knew I needed really. So I think there, you know, it was, yes, motherhood was a part of it, but it was a catalyst. to, you know, and I've spoken about having an eating disorder and I had that for 15 years and then I kind of magically cured myself of it by just shifting addictions to work. And so really motherhood kind of collided with the realization that actually my way of being wasn't really working. So in hindsight, I think I wrote about it thinking that motherhood was what had happened to me when actually I had just reached my. Yeah, just burnout. It's just so much going on. Yeah. And so 15 years with an eating disorder, how did that start? Was it something you saw on telly or did you just? It was something I heard about at school actually.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And I remember thinking, wow, that was weird. It wasn't even said to me. I'm pretty sure I overheard it in the toilets. And I thought, oh, that's weird. And yeah, so I guess that was. was the kind of, that seed was planted.

And then, yeah, I kind of think of it like, I don't know, an eating disorder for me is a way that a person controls a world that feels out of control for them. You know, so I think I'm a very sensitive kind of human behind, like, you know, an exterior that might seem otherwise. and I think I felt a lot. Like as a kid, I felt everything in a room, whether I knew what was going on or not.

I just, and I think those big feelings were really, were really hard actually, as they are for everybody, you know? But I think these kind of questions around who you are or what you want to do or where you want to work or how you're going to like fly the nest. All of those things felt so, beyond my capability really at the time that I think that served to keep me fixated and preoccupied. And I had something that I could really like focus on truthfully.

Did any of your family or friends know what? Did you do well at hiding it? Yeah, I think that's the thing with, I mean, with addiction generally and with an eating disorder particularly, like, you know, depends on where you're at and how it manifests. it can be more difficult to hide but yeah they they my friends didn't know for a very long time and my family yeah kind of had inklings I suppose

and it's funny you say about hiding we had a guest on who she doesn't drink anymore but she said when she was doing her she went to a sober coach as opposed to AA it was Millie McIntosh and she was saying because she was embarrassed to say to people, I've got this problem. I need help. She was making up excuses saying, I can't drink on antibiotics.

Okay. Or I can't make that event because it's outside of London type thing. And it was her way of dealing with it internally before she announced to people this is what I've been dealing with. I'm now on the other side. Please respect that. Leave me to it because she said

it was just so much around to, oh come on, let's go out and have one and I do it. And I suppose in our jobs, there are some events, you know, any awards do. There's always a meal there when you get there. You know, there's always an email before. Are you a vegetarian? Any dietary requirements? You know, yeah, yeah. It's kind of, it's everywhere. Yeah. So we do what we can. I think of all the addictions, there's abstinence from every other really, most other addictions with eating disorders.

You know, there's not. You can't go cold turkey from food or you're in trouble. And so, yeah, It's a very complex one and it's something I feel really passionately about talking about because it often is spoken about as such a kind of hopeless you know we don't see that many healthy kind of

conversations really around it so yeah it was a coping mechanism for me but it's a massive massive issue growing Oh it's huge Yeah and I think it's because

you know, it's shifting but it has historically been like a female issue by and large and so I think there's been less interest less resources, less seriousness really taken around it and I think there's also an idea that maybe it's a teenage kind of phase that you grow out of?

They grow out of or it's just a bit kind of course girls want to be skinny or we're so obsessed with this notion that we're, it's almost normal to want that, of course, of course. But it's not really about weight and it's not about food. You know, it's about attempting to control what feels uncontrollable. It's a coping mechanism the same as alcohol is for an alcoholic. So I think some people will talk about, you know, most alcoholics, I'm sure, don't love a glass of vodka in the morning.

It's how they feel when they have it. It's how, or how they stop feeling. Yeah. You know, and it's something that you do to, to cut off, to disconnect from yourself. And I think that's the real misconception about it and what makes it so tricky to kind of, you know, treat it and understand it as a family. Because it's, you know, it's a very frustrating, but it's like the highest mortality rate of all psychological illnesses. And yet it's still kind of brushed away as a girly, you know, passing phase. And it's so heartbreaking, I imagine, to witness.

I mean, obviously we're both mums and the thought of anyone of my friends and family having that issue and you feel so helpless because part of you screaming, just food, just eat it. But the other half doesn't understand, like you say, the mental impact. Totally. And that was, I think. that was the impetus for me was I have a daughter, I now have two, and I thought, whatever I'm feeling about myself, because it had moved away from food for me at that point, but I knew that like whatever hold was there and the drive to kind of, you know, control my world and work and move and kind of how tied my self-esteem was to what I was doing, I suppose. I just knew I didn't want her to feel that. And I thought if I can't, like I need to at least try to sort this out.

I knew that the root of whatever was driving me either, you know, in food or in work as was my, you know, chosen one. At that stage, I knew that the root cause was the same. And so I just remember kind of in desperation, a few months after the birth calling, like literally Googling. Actually, a friend gave me the number of her therapist, and I rang, and she was like, what's going on? I said, I, you know, I had an eating disorder. It's not, like, really a thing anymore, but I think I worked maybe a lot. And I have had a baby, and I just don't feel right. And I feel like I've been, you know, kind of escaping or running away from something.

And so at that point, I was very determined to change. because I really knew that I'd had so many, like, wonderful things happening in my life personally, professionally, and I still, none of it filled me up. And so, you know, there's that term the hungry ghost where you're kind of always, like, seeking something else. And I just thought, I just, like, I don't want to spend my entire life always hungry, not literally, but looking for something. And so, you know, I spent like seven years in therapy. Do you think if you weren't in the media, the job you're in, would have had it because... Oh, yeah, I had it well before my job.

Which do you mean therapy or the eating disorder? No, the eating disorder. No, totally. We obviously grew up in a time where it was, you know, Cape Moss era. Everyone had to be way for thin, otherwise you weren't successful. And I remember magazines and they'd circle if you had cellulite or... But, you know, if I remember I used to love, I still do love the spice girls.

Same. And I remember it was skeletal spice one week and then she was pokey posh after she'd had a baby. And you think that's frigging awful. To give someone a label based on their physique alone. To weigh her on telly in front of the nation. And it was those types of things that I saw growing up that made me think, I mean, I touch what,

I've never had the issues with food or I've always wanted to be, strong and like, you know, he still have gladiators and stuff. But so many of my friends tried to shrink because they thought to be successful, to be light and appreciated, desirable, they had to be smaller. Yeah. Do you think it's changing in the media or is it, it's not going? I think it had changed, but I feel like we're swinging back in the wrong direction. You know, they're just, although there is a resistance.

to it which wasn't there initially we just kind of accepted that that was the thing there's definitely a kind of fight people are going no no no sorry we're not we're not having this but you know there's no doubt like OZembek has normalised it again

this kind of immediate thinness I think you know but and I'm reticent to speak about that and celebrities being thin and da-da-da because actually kind of what it does is undermine

the seriousness of an eating disorder as an addiction which is so you have a propensity to it. There's research now that suggests there might be genetic links so it's like if we just say oh

you know the media handle it badly that kind of suggests like it's just fixable with a different front cover. Yeah a definite outlet you know and I think that's dangerous because what it does is minimises the serious of it really because I think millions of

women can, and to your point I think it's like really toxic the world that we grew up in with the... I look back and think how are they allowed to print or say certain things. I know and it was shaming and like yeah, women's bodies were there

to be picked apart but I just don't know that it's changed that radically but I think the underlying reason why someone would develop there's disordered eating on the one hand, which I think is everywhere. We had...

We had Emily, the nutritionist, on. Oh, yeah. And she was saying she had an eating disorder. And she got booked as a model, and she said she was on a shoot. It was something for like A-Sos, a boo-hoo or something. And she said, the photographer said to her, your face is lovely, but your legs need to be a bit thinner.

And she said that one comment span years, years and years of eating disorders because of one person's comment and she said, I look back now and get so angry because her legs weren't big and she's like even if they were, so what? Do you know what I mean? I was still, I was healthy, I was happy, I was a young girl

and his one comment changed everything and that for me is what annoys me with you know, words are so powerful and how obviously we, in our job we do need the media to some aspects you know if you're doing a project you want to promote it and you want this picture and this and that but the comments that people are allowed to write

and without realizing the impact it can have on someone. You know, I sometimes see comments about me and I'm like, for me, it's like, oh, whatever. But I, for some reason, I always go to my daughter and think if anyone said that about my child, you'd kill him. Yeah, I would absolutely kill them. But then when it's about me, I've kind of become accustomed to it, which in itself is quite shitty.

It's bad, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's, obviously with daughters, are you mindful of things you do and say around the house? Are you trying to be like, Because you want them to be sassy and confident. Oh, yeah. But I sometimes have a row with mine and think I'm arguing with myself. Half of him is proud.

The other half is calm the hell down. Oh, I know. I really struggle with this because to parent, a spirited little sass monkey is like challenging. But equally, I just think girls and women need sharp elbows and they need that fire. And more than anything, I feel like my job as a parent is to, you know, kind of sustain that rather than dull it.

You need to like prepare them for what's... Yeah, or like emboldened them, you know? Like actually just, yeah. Like you want, I don't know, I just want them to like puff their chests out and fucking go for it. Yeah, you know. But that's what young girls need to do. Yeah. What habits do you do now daily, which away from your eating disorder and work addiction.

and stuff because I remember when we did a show together years ago you were talking to me about a cacao drink thing oh my god when was this what was it we were doing it was Katie piper's breakfast thing oh yeah and I remember you know was it Kate Garroway's yes it was Kate Garroway she was hosting it but I remember you had this drink and we were having like more cacao ceremonial and you were telling me all the benefits since that conversation with you I love it I put it in my porridge I put it in my smoothies. Are you kind of on that whole wellness? I call it woo-woo for me.

I'm obsessed with everything like that. Oh, I love it. What healthy daily habits do you do now? What's like a non-negotiable? My cacao is bedded in. I'm a bit of a faddest though and my husband always takes the piss out of me because he's like, he's more, you know,

he's got a routine and he really sticks to the routine. Routine is not for me. No. I mean, it should be really, but I kind of balk at it. I Cacao is where I start my day

and more so it's like oh it's a lovely little drink there's loads of health benefits yada yada but it's also like a little moment of kind of pause so meditation I love although I'm like stealing them but I did yesterday

go to the health shop because I was a bit sniffly and I've got a busy week and I thought I'm just going to go down and like stock up stock up so I went in I got oregano oil

I got black seed oil which apparently is good for it gets rid of everything except death it kills everything except death that doesn't make sense it's good anyway I'll let you know so those oils

I got like a tart cherry something over there that's supposed to be like a melatonin really good for sleep and skull cap little drops which is like a herbal tincture again for sleep

and then because it was in a little drawer and I had seen it I've been definitely served this on Instagram I think it's called Shill Jat Have you seen this?

No, what is it? Lads, it's disgusting It is the most What's it supposed to do? Now I, just to caveat this You tell me to drink like shit in a cup because it's good for my gut

And I will do it Yeah, yeah I'm the same I'll try anything Anything Anything And so I gave it a go This morning

I was like Well that smells about It's a resin That they like Basically collect off the side of a mountain And you put it in water, it is the most repulsive thing I have ever smelt, tasted in my entire life. And that

punchy little jar with a little silver bloody spoon, I don't even want to know. So I don't know what I'm going to do because I don't think anything is going to mass the taste of that. So I couldn't even, I couldn't put it in smoothies or anything. I don't know. I'm going to try. I'm going to try. But I do. I love, I'm very big into alternative. I love remedies. I love. I love remedies. I love. love, like herbal teas and tinctures and all sorts of gear. I spoke to a doctor who was like a herbalist doctor, so he's very much, there's a time in place for medicine, but if he can do prevention over cure, he says that's what I'm all about. And he said to me, if you feel him run down, he said shot olive oil throughout the day.

He said three or four shots, he said it's a natural anti-inflammatory. Come on. I was like, okay. So when I got home, I looked it up. And there was another doctor online who'd said, before you reach for your norophon or ibupon, whatever, try and shot olive oil throughout the day. And Gawker's dad, he's obviously Spanish, my other half,

he starts the day every day with olive oil. He has done all his life. And when I said to Gawker, why does he do that? And he says, oh, it's anti-inflammatory, is very good. Inflammation in their body is no good. I said, Gawker, a doctor told me that last week. You've just confirmed it. I said, stock up on the olive oil.

Every morning we're having a shot of it. and it's little things like that for me if I can do it then I'm going to do it I drink olive oil really like on all of my all of my meals and I sneak it into the girls lunch boxes

if they've got like a cooked lunch I will put olive oil over it I'll put it because you don't want to cook with olive oil because it whatever because the temperature yeah so but yeah I do I put literally on everything on everything I mean glugs of it that's why your skin's glowing like that I love it. I love it.

Like, my most recent thing is Greek yogurt with fried dates, olive oil all over that. Oh, nice. Well, that does sound nice, actually. Yeah. And are you a cook? Do you do a lot of cooking? I do love cooking. Yeah. But I need space. I need time. And it's a shit show. You can't come into that kitchen afterwards. Like, we're not cooking for show. I don't want anyone to see my process. No, you just want them to taste the foods.

And then it's good. Yeah, exactly. But I don't want you to see what I'm doing. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I get that. But I do love, I think what I love. And you asked, you know, the kind of words and the language with kids around.

For me, the word that I now come back to is like, is nourishment. So something, nourishment does it, not just your, you know, what you consume. but actually that idea that you would would care for yourself and nourish yourself. So we don't talk about healthy or unhealthy foods. But yeah, just things that are like, oh, is there a rainbow there?

Are we getting enough, you know, of everything in there? So trying to not load things as good and bad, which, you know, same for emotions. You're not like my eldest is, actually both of them are quite fiery in terms of their emotions, very different from how we were, as kids, I'm one of four girls. And so, like, again, I think girls are not, it's not invited for you to be, like, screaming and angry and seething.

You get called crazy. Crazy. And absolutely, it's just not okay. Whereas I love to see the little valves pop and then she regulates herself and she's back because those are valid emotions that are necessary to be felt. And so I kind of love when they go loop to loop. And your book Joy Rider, there's a lot of gratitude about being grateful for things. Is that something that you practice daily,

the whole gratitude thing? And how's that help? I think when I wrote Joy Rider, it was because I had tried everything, I mean, sound baths and all sorts of quacks, as my husband calls. It's like you'd go to anyone, which was really me handing over to somebody going, will you sort me out? Will you fix me?

Again, it was just another version of looking externally for something. And gratitude, and I have read self-development self-help books since forever. I was always clearly looking for something. And there was a through line in all of the things. It was, you know, different ways of saying it. But that kind of sense of appreciating what you have rather than always, you know, looking for the next thing. It was not natural to me at all.

And so, but it worked whenever I leaned into that and did it, it changed the way I felt. It changed the way the world, you know, reacted to me, I suppose, and the way I saw things. But then I would dump it in pursuit of another quack. And so it became, yeah, something that I came back to over and over again. And wellness can feel very, I don't know, a bit flighty and a bit inaccessible, really. It's all quite beige and tidy and beautiful. And actually, like, I think healing and life is chaotic and it's messy and it's not linear.

And so I always thought, actually, my dad is not going to lie down and have a bloody, some lad swinging bowls around while he heals. Do you know what I mean? But my dad could definitely pick up his phone in the morning and write three things he's grateful for on his iPhone notes. And so my feeling was actually that something that's, cheap, free actually, and completely accessible.

We often overlook those kind of everyday things in pursuit of like a shiny... Yeah, just something like magic to happen overnight. Totally. And it's funny, I remember speaking to this guy called Enda McNulty, who's like a performance coach. He works in sports mostly. A lot of the Irish rugby team. And I was talking to him was when I did a chat show in Ireland.

And so we met for lunch by a friend. And he was saying, oh, you know, keep an energy journal. And I was like, what? An energy journal. He was like, no. It sounds good though. Really good. Yeah.

It was like, you know, it just kind of makes you a bit mindful. Have you had like a nice juice? Have you given yourself a nap? It gives you a sense of kind of how you, because you don't have endless, like, resources of energy, which I thought I always did. and when he listed out he's like make sure you have enough sleep

and make sure you have this and that and you're eating nutritious foods and da and I was like all right I said so kind of like the basic stuff so in my head I had already gone oh yeah that all shite we all know those things like

but they're quite dull and he said which was such a moment for me he was like they're not basic they're fundamental and something shifted. The things that I had dismissed as kind of

average like, boring kind of became like, oh wow, those are the foundational things that allow for you to live in a much kind of fuller way, I suppose. One thing we do in our house, which

I got it from the Kardashians, but it's just stuck. Is this like a rose or a thorn? We do a pit and peek of the week. Pit and Peak. Yeah. Yeah, and Mia loves it. Yeah. And it's helped us find out things that have gone on at school,

which you wouldn't have known about. Things that she's overheard, things that she's watched on telly. Just from saying we're doing the pit and peat game. And we go around the table, right, Papa, what's your pit and pit at the week? And sometimes his peak of the week is that he's been able to be home and do the school run. His pit is that he's got to go on tour. Yeah, in a dance off. Had to go on tour.

and sometimes me as is well my peak of the week is that I got to see my cousins and I was spending time in Nana's. Sometimes a pit of the week is something like you made me try broccoli. Yeah. Or sometimes it can be somebody at school really hurt my feelings and then

we get into why what happened. And she'll tell us but had we not done that little game I think would she have even opened up? Would she have told us and there's a stat out that we found out with women's health actually that girls age when they get to age 14

there's an over 50% dropout of sports and after school activities because of the one reason their body changes and this one person they were trying to get in mandatory more than 50

they were trying to get it mandatory in all schools that they have someone go in and do you know how they separate boys and girls to talk about periods keep them all together because you know a guy will have a sister a mom

or a partner or a partner or a friend who will have periods, do you know what I mean? They'll have female friends. And they were saying the reason they drop out is because it's around age 14 where their boobs will develop. I mean, it could be sooner, could be later. But on average, their hips will wider. Their leg hair will get more defined.

The bodies will change and more than 50% drop out just because of that. Even if they have the capability of being a top athlete, because they're not told that those body changes. changes are normal. And also there is no normal either, you know? It happens at different stages. It's not like, so I think the discomfort for a lot comes at whether they're ahead or behind or what's supposedly desirable or what's unacceptable.

And that's frightening. 14. It's terrifying. Claire was saying, I mean, none of us are runners, but she said she stopped running because her boobs were so big. Oh, okay. I used to wear two sports bras. Yeah, to keep them down.

And she just said. that was the reason I stopped running. Not that I couldn't do it. I was embarrassed because the lads would be like, when she was running. And you hear things and you think, rigging hell. I remember my daughter come back recently.

She's into football. And so they had girls football and then they had a mixed football that they were trying out. And she loves it. And I said, go on, do you want to try the mixed one? It's an extra half an hour or whatever. And so she did the mixed one

with a couple of her girlfriends. and she came home afterwards she was like, yeah, no, we're not going to do this which I really, like, I don't really tolerate the kind of collective. I'm like, you're seven, we are not making decisions for we. So I said, okay, right?

And she was, yeah, the boys just don't really pass us the ball. So it's a bit pointless. I was like, oh, right, okay. And I said, so I kind of left it. And I was like, do you like, you like, you like football? She was like, yeah, I love it. And I said, you know, there will be a lot of people who try to take things away from you. And I said, if you, if I loved football, there's no way a couple of lads in a field would stop me from playing that game.

And she was like, and I said, see how you feel. But I said, you know, it might be one of many times where you got to sharpen your elbows and get stuck in. And I said, so she was like, okay, yeah. And then she came back afterwards. She was like, I did actually have a think about what you were saying. Oh, I love that. And she said, I do think you're right. She was like, I really do like football.

So I'm going to go again. Go for her. Yeah. And it was like, okay, yeah, great. Get stuck in. P.S. plot twist. She didn't stay. But the intention for her to go back, that's what's important.

Yeah. And she currently does jiu-jitsu. And there's a few kids in the class who don't do it anymore. And she keeps wanting to go. I was like, hon. you're doing the goddamn jih Tijuana. Mia does jiu-jitsu on a Sunday. She loves it. She actually loves it

when she's stuck in it but I think there's a kind of narrative around it and there's a definite disparity in boys versus girls and I think she quite likes just being one of the gals and I was like you're in Jiu-Jitsu. We're not having this conversation you're doing. Mia comes home every Sunday

screaming back off bad guy. Go on girl. Back off bad guy. To anyone who... Got a fence up. Yeah, if a brother goes for a food or anything. Back on. What would you say, before we wrap up, what would you say now? Because obviously you're so successful in your career and you've got your kids and your health. And what would you say to 20-year-old Angela now?

If you knew what was ahead, what was coming, what advice would you give her? I think I'd say chill the fuck out. Yeah. Like, it's going to be fine. I think I was so afraid. spent like a really long time, afraid, afraid that what I did was, you know, wrong, afraid that every decision I made was like too late or too early, probably. I just didn't really trust myself, I think. I didn't trust myself. And I think there's

something so valuable about, A, knowing yourself, knowing who you are and what you're about what's important to you. And I think if you spend time, you know, to actually understand, then kind of none of the rest matters. Like, or you're maybe, I don't know, like a tree that's a bit more flexy, you know? You're still a bit like rooted and a bit solid, but you can kind of take the hits a bit more easily. And whereas I think I really was trying to avoid any of that, which is kind of,

you know, you're like... It's what makes your life, isn't it? The twist, turns, knock back, the excitement, the... Exactly. And that's part of it, rather than something to be avoided, I think it's something to kind of, I don't know, like, lean into really the inevitability of those things. But knowing that, yeah, you're ground. You can keep moving. I listen to a really good podcast and the lady said she's Greek, Greek New York.

She said it, the word is Kinesis. It means to keep keeping kinesis, keep moving. She said because even if you're going in the wrong direction, it's better than being stagnant. If you're in the same place, you're going to get stagnant. Yeah, I think that's lovely. And she said it's in terms of joy, in grief. Allow the feelings to come.

Yeah. Feel them, accept them, but move. Just keep going. Yeah. And that's kind of stuck with me in a way. Yeah. You don't want to get stagnant. Although I move arguably too much.

Like sonic. And I do think something, I do think there's something in stillness that we've always. kind of manically avoiding. And I think there's absolute gold. Yeah. To be fair.

Like sometimes if I can manage because also you can sit and not find any sort of stillness but if I manage to find those little moments of stillness it's like I do think there's there's huge value in them. But maybe it's more like my husband

talks about the bounce back rate which I think is kind of what she's saying is that like feel the thing but don't drown, don't wallow in it for too long. And I think it's that kind of dust yourself off, you know, go again. And I think we definitely try and teach that to the girls that, yeah, you will get knocked down, dust yourself off, go again. Like cry, we'll be there to hold you, whatever. And then you get up and you go again.

And I think in the past I've probably been like licked my wounds for too long, you know. And that comes out of fear of questioning whether. actually when you get knocked down is a confirmation that you were never supposed to be up in the first place rather than, no, it's part of the gig, go again. I think it's something we learn as adults as well because the fear of failure becomes more an embarrassment.

When you're a kid, like when you're learning to walk, kids, they're pulling themselves up on all kinds, they fall over. They make a show themselves every day. They're straight back up, trying. They never just thought, oh, I've not walked today, I'm not going to do it ever again. They're constantly trying.

And I think as we age, get a fear of failure, embarrassment. It's a huge. And I think it's particularly big for women. Yeah, massively. Particularly in work, I think women are,

you know, you're giving a chance. Lucky, don't fuck it up. Whereas actually, you're supposed to. You're supposed to get it wrong. That's how you get great. That's how you grow. That's how you build.

And I think men, when they fail, they're suddenly viewed as wiser, you know, more brilliant beings who are actually a much, you know, lower risk bet. But with women, it's like, no, she had a chance. One chance and she's blown it. She's blown it. So, because I remember Sharon Horgan talking about that.

She was like, yeah, we need women to have opportunities, but we also need to let women fail at said opportunities in order to be brilliant and to build, you know, great things because you don't get it right first time. But it's like Claire's the editor of women's health and men's health. And men's health. And she says to this day she still

gets some guys saying how dare they have a women editing a man's magazine. What does she know? It's the best it's ever done. It's flourishing and she's like I've got knowledge, I've got expertise I've done you know she's been a journalist

for most of her life as well. I know what sells. I know what looks good. But it's a men's mag so she shouldn't be doing it. But it's a bit like, it's bizarre. It's slitting up the kids to talk about periods. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. Like, or when people talk about women's comedy, you're like, it's not women's comedy. We never describe men's comedy as men's comedy. That's not even a term. So like, you know, women have usually quite a decent grasp on universal experiences,

not just women things. No. We're here to stay as well. Let that be known. Oh, Angela, thank you so much for joining me. Before you do go, we do it at the end of every episode. Just some quick fire questions. There's only four.

So myself and Claire, when she's better, I'll come into yours for dinner. Great. What are we having? What are you going to make us? Oh, I'm going to make fish. Are you okay with fish? I'll get rid of the bones. Actually, you'll get rid of the bones. Heads left on.

Oh, I don't know if I can do the head. We're going to crisp that skin up. There's going to be like a bit of lemon. Few herbs stuck up at where you. Yeah. I know it doesn't technically have one of that. loads of spuds drenched in olive oil for the wind anti-inflammatory

you're going to a desert island what am I bringing? Only one thing lip-ball. Is it going to be? Lit-bam. I know. And there's lip-bam on the table. And it's empty and it's literally boring a hole in the side of my head because my lips are so dry and you know they say it's a like it's because I use lip-bam that they're dry that actually they should get used to weather or something but yeah lip-bam because I actually think I'd be so fidgety

without it. Coffee or wine. You can only have on for the rest of your life. For the rest of my life, wine. And then lastly, what is one thing anyone listening to this right now can do to make themselves feel better today? Oh, have a bath. Oh, yeah.

Have a bathy bath. With no phone. Actually, sorry, erase that. Go to bed tonight without your phone in the bedroom. It's going to be tough, isn't it? But something we all should do. sleep with your phone in the room? I have it for my alarm.

Get an analogue alarm. It's an absolute game changer. I shouldn't have my phone. I have it on the bedside. No. And do you ever like sneakily read it in the night time? No, not in the night. The only thing I do sometimes is I check the time. But that blue light really pisses me off in the night. The blue light's a bitch. Yeah. Get a little analogue alarm. I'll send you a link.

Oh, okay. But I think it has been an absolute game changer leaving my phone outside the room. That is the one tip I'm going to take and use. genuinely I will use that. Oh well, Angela, thank you so much for joining us on just as well. Good luck with everything else. I mean, not that you need it, you're smashing. I mean, we all need it in a minute.

We all need it. And you're recording your podcast this afternoon, aren't you? I am. I'm off to Vicky. Which is a brilliant podcast. So everyone should listen to that as well. It's called Get a Grip. Get a grip, everyone.

Send us a review, yaddy, yaddy, yaddy. But yeah, thank you for joining us. Thank you.