Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Built Differently: Three Rugby World Champions on Power, Periods & Pushing the Limits

Episode Date: December 13, 2025

Live from the AO Arena, before England’s netball test against New Zealand, we sat down with three World Cup-winning Red Roses: Amy Cokayne, Holly Aitchison and Mo Hunt for one of our most powerful episodes yet. We talk pressure, periods, and playing through pain. The ridiculous abuse they get online. Why looking different makes them stronger on the pitch. How they see their bodies not as objects but as tools. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We're working to build a future where the path to support is clear, and every step forward feels like progress. Not another wrong turn. Visit camh.ca to help us forge a better path for mental health care. Hi, I'm Gemma Atkinson and I'm Claire Sanderson And we've just recorded a different type of episode for just as well We did a live episode, didn't we? We did at the Manchester Arena, no less, the AO Arena in your stomping ground

Yeah, love that arena And it was before England Netball took on New Zealand in a test series So women's self has partnered with England Netball I'm a huge, huge advocate for women's sports It's a partnership I'm very proud of But we actually interviewed three other types of professional sports women before the netballers took

to the court. The rugby players, none other, the England Roses, which you're obsessed with rugby, so it was like a dream come tree for you, wasn't it? Well, yeah, I'm obsessed with Wales rugby, but, you know, I can I can push my allegiance to Wales to once, I did tell them that. I made sure

they were aware that I'm a Wales rugby fan. Nevertheless, these women won the Rugby World Cup this year, and the players that we interviewed were Amy Cochane, Holly Aitchinson, a Moena Tallinn. They all play for sale sharks, which is your local team up in Manchester. And they all played in that final when England beat Canada in the summer of Twickenham. And I was there to see them win the trophy. And it was lovely speaking to them and hearing about

their journey and also hearing their thoughts about women's sport and the journey it's been on in recent years and where they think the future will go. It was brilliant as well. What I loved, they were all different shapes and sizes. And they all were all different shapes and sizes. and they all spoke individually how their body shape determines how they play on the field, determines how they train. So despite all looking incredibly different, they all had unique capabilities because of their body shape.

Yeah, they describe their bodies as their tools. Yeah, which is amazing. It's great for young girls, it really is. Because Amy Cocaine and Moena Tallinn are bigger, stronger, powerful players dictated by where they play on the pitch where is Holly is number 10. need to be fast they need to be more athletic so it was really fascinating to see these women who were elite the best rugby players in the world yet they were all so wonderfully diverse so enjoy this live chat with just as well and the england red roses but the word live comes into play because

we were interviewing the ladies actually on the court not court side we were sat on the netball court and midway through the uh the netball teams came out to practice their shooting so there's a few ball bounces in the background but it's not us it's not us it's england netball so we'll let it be and you do get used to it yeah just used to just just just tune it out hello i'm jemma arkinson and i'm claire sanderson the editor-in-chief of woman's health and welcome to another episode of just as well uh the number one health and wellness podcast uh tonight it's a very special episode because we're doing it here from the arena in man But we are joined by rugby royalty in the house.

We have three World Cup champions who've dominated at both club and international level. We have Holly Aitchison, a fly half maestro. She's an Olympian. She's a six nations grand slam winner and she's one of the most creative playmakers in the women's game. She returned up north this summer to sign with Sailsham

with sail sharks after playing for the Bristol Bears for two years. We also have Moena Talling on the end here. She is the powerhouse of the second row and the back row who made her England debut at just 18 and she now has a growing reputation as one

of the fiercest forwards in world rugby. And we're also joined by Amy Cochane who's the hooker with serious silverware. So she's a World Cup winner, multiple Six Nations titles and she's a key figure in sales sharks is rise to prominence

in the premiership. Three sales sharks, three World Cup winners, one incredible conversation. For all those ladies out here, let's dive straight in. So thank you so much for joining us tonight. We're at the AO Arena in

Manchester. It's our first ever live podcast of Jess as well. So you're our first ever live guest. No pressure. Thank you so much. No, no pressure at all. And we are going to watch England take on the Mighty New Zealand later in their test series. It's a decider, but you guys will be no stranger to the rivalry between England and New Zealand

because it's huge in rugby as well, isn't it? So you know what it takes to represent your country against an amazing team like New Zealand. But how does it feel to represent England in rugby? Yeah, it's amazing. I think when I was a kid, I always wanted to represent my country in anything. I didn't really think that was going to be rugby, but I think when you have the opportunity to stand there for the anthem and you sing it, you kind of get that sense of pride.

And I always look to my parents, you know, they're the ones that have got me here that have helped me through my whole rugby journey. So it's kind of that moment to kind of look at them and say thank you and kind of like we've done it as a collective, not just a personal one. I mean, Claire was actually at the World Cup final. Claire loves rugby. I watched it on telly. The atmosphere looked incredible just from watching it on telly.

But it seemed to be a really beautiful, supportive atmosphere. It didn't seem like the men's rugby, which was a bit kind of lairy and aggressive. What was it like to actually play there in the final? Yeah, no, it's really different to what we see, I guess, in the men's demographic. We're definitely attracting more of like a family environment in the women's game, which is cool. So like when we were walking in at Tickenham for the final, it was honestly like the most incredible atmosphere.

I think we've all ever experienced you're walking in and you can see the pavilion full, you know, there's families, there's young girls, looking at your young boys as well and yeah, it's just like insane as you walk through and like there's fields of people landing the street so yeah, it was honestly like the most incredible

experience. So I remember being there and seeing the sheer number of people who were stood at every level at Twickenham and your bus coming through and it was a really a breathtaking moment for women's sports, a seminal moment for women's spot. I've been at Twickenham for countless men's rugby games to have to have that

sheer number of people who were all waiting for you guys to arrive is it was just amazing. Yeah, it's mental. Like we were obviously like watching the ticket sales and stuff as we were going through the competition and we'd sold out like quite a few. But you're kind of wondering, you know, will we sell 82,000? Like you're thinking that's a big number. I think it was the two weeks before or one week before we'd sold out the whole thing. We'd done 60 before so we were like, oh, like it's going to feel special, like 60 was ridiculously loud. We couldn't hear each other across the pitch. But when you think of like 82 and you can't even like see the bus coming in,

like, because there's so many people across the streets and that, it was just, yeah, it was insane. Like a real, like, pinch me moment that I feel like we just want to like bottle and have that again every time we play. So Moena, there must have been some party in the changing room afterwards and in the following days because I saw plenty of content online of you guys maybe looking a bit. worse for wear feeling a bit worse for wear the following day maybe not being to bed there was

there was some footage of players walking across a lawn carrying bottles of of beer and champagne so who was the worst behaved i think that was you walking across the lawn wasn't amy but yeah it was like a once-in-a-lifetime kind of thing to win a world cup at home in your home country so yeah it was really special to just have that moment in the changing rooms afterwards where we could just come together like beers and drinks were had pretty much straight away but it was also really special kind of after everyone had left the stadium we went back out onto the pitch and kind of had this really nice moment with everyone in the squad all the staff and like everyone behind the scenes as well and that just made it like amazing and it kind of just it kind of sunk in then that this was

our home and this is what we'd just done. And then, yeah, like the night after was obviously great, and it carried on for a few nights, I think, for a few people. But yeah, it was very fun and something that we probably hope all we'd do again.

How do you all individually deal with, like, the pressure? And, I mean, there was an expectation, I think, from the nation. You know, it was straight off the back of the lionesses winning that their World Cup and everyone was like, oh my gosh, the women have done it. then it was your turn and like you say your family were there

82,000 tickets you couldn't see the pitch because of all the fans and everything did you feel a lot of outside pressure and if so how did you deal with it? Yeah definitely I think you like you said the lioness has kind of set the bar for us and we kind of knew

what winning a home tournament meant for the football and how that kind of kick started it and really jumped on so we knew that it was kind of the moment for us that we needed to take it. I think in internally though we knew how good we were and how prepared we were and if we could just do what we needed to do we would get the win like we were number one for a reason we've won so many games for a reason because we are actually really good so I think it was more just trusting

that we were good we were good at rugby you know what I mean so we didn't need to do anything super special we didn't need any individual player to go out and be a hero we just the strength within the team would get the job done and thankfully we did well you guys had to deal with a bit of negative scrutiny on social media. I read some pathetic, misogynistic comments about your ability, not yours in particular.

Yes, you. Just you. And there was also about the appearance of some of you. I know there was a Welsh player George Evans who was criticised for wearing bows in our hair. And you've come under some flack for wearing makeup when you play. Yeah, I think

it's just like something that you kind of learn to take in your stride. Like there's a lot of online trolls and people that are not going to necessarily agree with everything that you do. I think for me, I always kind of read those comments and think, well, obviously, you must be quite a sad person to be leaving something like that, so it's kind of a reflection of them. But I think what's been really good is when George Evans in the World Cup had her, she wears a bow and her hair for people that don't know, she wears like a pink bow and her hair, and people were kind of giving her a bit of abuse for taking away from her rugby.

I think in women's sport in general, you're kind of always accused of not being on your game or, you know, listening to outside noise of you've got sponsorships going on or whatever. You kind of get used to that. So I don't think it was anything new that we experienced during the World Cup. But yeah, I've definitely had some comments about wearing makeup, and it's just like, why does it matter, like, what I'm doing? You know, it's a part of you. It's how I express who I am. Like, I'm from near Liverpool, like, a big part of being, like, near, like, as a scout.

or is that people like to look after themselves. Take care of their appearance. You care about what you look like. So, like, yeah, it's just something that, like, I've always done. So I kind of, yeah, don't really listen to it too much. It's just how I express myself. And it's almost like when they can't give you any grief for your performance on the game, can this? It's like, well, what can we pick on them for?

She's got a bow in her air. Let's go for that. Because they're not exactly going to say they can't play rugby, can they? Do you know what I mean? What I love about rugby, when myself and Claire, we've had rugby players on our podcast previously, is that it's a sport for all shapes and sizes. And there's girls on there who were short, who were tall, who were broad, who were slim build.

And that for me, I think, is brilliant. And there was a stat that we read that the dropout rate of teenage girls in sport from age 14, it drops massively. And the number one reason for it dropping is because of their body image, not wanting to wear shorts, not wanting to wear the skirt or whatever in netball. Do you guys experience the very normal emotions that females go through of feeling, you know what, I don't feel my best today, but pick myself up, I carry on with it. What message would you give to any young girl listening

who wants to carry on, but he's nervous because of how they look? Yeah, we talk quite a bit about women's health within the rugby team. We have a lot of, we've had guest speakers come in and talk to us all about menstrual cycle and the different phases and stuff, and I think it's quite funny if we're in training we drop a ball or something like I'm in my clumsy phase like we talk about it quite openly or quite a lot of us do like keep yuppies and stuff

or training because we got told to do like little hand-eye skills before in certain phases can help you so I think we're all quite open within the team especially when we spend so much time together you know when everyone's on or if you're in sync and it's quite an open conversation but I think we have got a much better understanding now on the different phases and what that can mean for your training and stuff like that.

I think football have kind of led the way in tailoring training for the individual athlete throughout the different cycle. But yeah, I think if I was just saying to a young girl, like exercise can actually help when you're on your period as well. Like it can make you feel better. So you should never shy away from doing exercise or playing sport just because of something like your period. I was also going to say like body image-wise, like I think it's important to like know that

we all go through it as well. Like, it's definitely something that, like, I've had, like, going out before a game, like, oh, this shirt's too tight or something like that. But I think what I keep in my head is, like, we love playing the sport, and our bodies are made for doing and playing rugby, and that's how we go to the gym to be stronger, to be, like, faster on the field. So I think just keeping that in mind that it's not all about the image, It's about what you then perform on the pitch and how that helps you.

Yeah, it's like your tool, isn't it? And you're so capable because of your functioning body. I mean, female bodies are incredible. But like the stat says, so many young girls drop out of something they love because of it. It's really sad, isn't it? There's a lot about what girls are forced to wear in school, I think, to do sports. I remember having to wear big red knickers and tiny skirts. here. I was taller than my friends,

curvy than my friends. I had boobs and bum before them. And I was made to feel terribly self-conscious. And that self-consciousness has followed me through life, to be honest, because those formative years are really important, aren't they? You know, it's I'd love to get to a place where girls in school can wear

leggings to do any sport if they want, whether it's hockey, netball, if rugby plays in school. I think there needs to be a bit of work there. So more girls grow up to be like you guys and really, realise how powerful their bodies can be and the good it can achieve. It's just about having choice, isn't it?

Like, you don't have to do the same as everyone. And I think that's where we're getting to in rugby. And kind of like what Moz says, like everyone's body is really different. And you're, like, me and Moz would be built completely different. We have our own roles in rugby because we are really different. And I think it's the same with, like, what you wear. Like, you might want to wear a legging. I might want to wear a short.

It's about having the choice to wear something. that helps your performance rather than detracts from it and makes you feel insecure. I'm going to ask you all individually. We'll start with you, Amy. But how did your background? How did you start playing rugby? What age was you and what made you choose rugby? I started quite young.

I was about five years old. I've got an older brother and he played rugby. My mum used to drag me down to watch him train. And I think I just got in the way and got a bit annoying for his age group. So they went, why don't you go over there and annoy your own age group? So, yeah, I started quite young at five, being involved ever since loved it. Wow, that's really young. Five years old playing rugby, that's brilliant.

What about yourself? No, I was like five as well. My dad was actually a director of rugby, so he was like a manager basically of a rugby team. So I was quite similar. Like, I just used to get dragged down on like a Saturday or like whatever days they were training. I would be sat like alongside like the pitch watching the men like train. and I had a younger brother as well so it was quite like normal

and I guess that's probably where we're different a lot of girls tend to get like into it a bit later in women's rugby but yeah I was really fortunate that it was kind of just down at my local club with my dad and my brother and it was all very normal for me well I was a bit later

I wasn't until like 13 so I started I swam for a long time and then went into football but kind of nothing really stuck kind of played netball hockey rounders in school and then again so I've got an older brother, a younger brother

and my older brother was playing down at a local rugby club and yeah just thought they'd go along and then this one eventually stuck that's mad then so you from starting to getting Cat for England was five years 13 to 18? Yeah that's mad

that's quick was that your dream did all of you want to one day play for England rugby? Did you ever, was it on the cards or did you just like the sport? I think like, especially me and Holland more similar age, Moz was a bit younger, but like women's rugby wasn't something accessible. Like I could never watch on the TV. I'd never watched a woman's rugby game before. When I was at my rugby club, there was two girls at the whole club that played rugby. So for me, like women's rugby wasn't, wasn't even a

thing. So I never really dreamt or grew up dreaming of playing for England. It was only more when I kind of stumbled across international rugby where I was like, oh, I can probably give it a crap. So I never really dreamt. but yeah definitely not a childhood dream I was um different I was talking by dad about this the other day because obviously you could watch men's rugby so when I like first got into it I obviously saw the men and I thought I was obviously like a bit different I was like oh well I've seen the man I'm going to be the first woman to like play the men's name what's wrong with me I don't know but like I thought that I was going to be because we couldn't see anything

I didn't really know same as you like women's rugby existed I was like well I'm just probably going to be the first woman that does that then honestly he's tapped love that you have to play with the boys up until no I have to but you can play with boys up until 11 yeah is that when it splits and it was it hard to find a team good enough to challenge yourselves and to advance to become the elite level because I don't imagine there was a huge plethora of girls rugby teams even even 10 years ago when you guys were doing it my story's a bit different so because I grew up in New Zealand I was actually a I had to play women's rugby from the age of 13.

So, yeah, I've played women's rugby. You would not be able to do that over here. Sorry, that is a safe. It's not safe at all. So, yeah, my club actually used to, a woman on one of our rival team, she actually played for the Blackburn. She was a New Zealand international player. So I was a little hooker, and she was a prop.

So, yeah, I grew up pretty quick and learned I needed to get a bit bigger. But, yeah, that's not normal, and it wouldn't happen over here. You're playing against Ladd, your own age, in New Zealand? So, yeah, I played boys' rugby for probably four or five years, and then, yeah, women's rugby. But I also played school rugby on Sunday, and then my club rugby for the women's team on the Saturday, so it was rugby mad as a kid, but that is very different and not something that would happen over here. No, that is not. I didn't know that about you either.

That's crazy. I was different. We had to basically, like, cluster teams because there wasn't enough girls around the country to play. so I was quite lucky like I drove like an hour maybe which is still quite good obviously people might be like that's quite far but they would group like three or four clubs

to try and get a game I don't know yeah I so I played for my local club for I think one or two years but pretty soon after that it became like the matches were few and far between because there wasn't really many other teams

around that could get the amount of girls to play games So then I had to travel to Leeds, which was about an hour as well, to then play matches. And you play, I'm saying this like I'm a rugby pro. It's Claire who's told me this about, are you all? Because she loves rugby. You're in the second row, which I believe is one of the most physically demanding. We've had a debate on.

We've had a debate already. I think it is. Factious. I think it is. What does it look like, you know, in terms of training? what's an average training day for you because you're like bashing into people you're taking a lot of hits as well

from other really strong women what do you do training wise training wise it kind of follows the same kind of every week so we've played on a Saturday we'll have Sunday off and then Mondays are more of a low key kind of detailed day

going and looking ahead to the next game so if we want to introduce any new plays or anything like that so that's like just gym a few meetings and then quite a low-key training session and then the next day Tuesday is probably we call it say a dark day so it has everything in it so it's contact it's the contact it's like just everything that it's a hard train session basically yes so do you all train differently depending on your position Yeah, so I'll have to, because I'm, I play hooker, which is like, I throw the ball in at the line out, and I'm in the middle of the scrum. So you get lifted?

No, I throw the ball in. I get lifted. You get lifted. Oh, okay. Yeah, so I have to practice my throwing and my hook in. You have to practice, like, kick in, kicking, passing. These guys have been running into each other one and doing that. Yeah.

But, Amy, you're at the front of the scrum, so you need to be really strong because you've got pressure coming both ways, like your neck strength in particular. needs to be really strong. So what specific training do you do to get the strength to allow you to drive that more, etc? Yeah, we do a lot of neck strength. I think most people have to do neck strength now because it's actually

been shown to reduce concussion and stuff like that, so the stronger your neck that's less like you're going to get a concussion, which is important. But yeah, as a hooker, you're kind of that stupid one in the middle, we've got no arms, going head first into a massive collision. So, yeah, I think it's a lot of core and stuff as well.

But nothing really beats just doing scrums and getting used to it, really. It must be a dark place in those scrums, I just can't. Do you like to say things to each other? Like, if you're really nice one in a scrummer, you like saying, I'm going to get you, your little bit. Do you like team talk them down? Pynching under the ones. No, never.

No, no. I've only got my own teammates to be here. But we normally have a bit of chat with the French, but they're normally saying it in French. I can't understand it anyway. But one thing about the red roses is you all, you've obviously each got your individual roles, but when you see you all out there as a team,

the team spirit is just, it's just there. It's like you've all kind of got each other's backs. If someone's not doing so good, you're all there. And was that something that was organic and just came naturally? Or have you all had to work hard at that team camaraderie and team spirit? I think it's definitely been there. but I think Mitch, who's our head coach, has definitely driven that a lot more since he's coming.

When does he come in, like, three years ago, I think, four years ago, just for the start of the last cycle. And he's just, like, big into cultural wins. So, like, we have our three, like, values. Yeah, values, which is, like, courage, bond leads. So, like, one of them is Bond. So, like, he really wants us to invest in each other. So, like, we'll go out for team meals.

There's always, like, games and, like, things that we're doing as a squad so that you get to know each other a lot. like better and spend a lot more time together which definitely there wasn't an emphasis on that before and so I'd say that's probably the real like major switch I would say as to why we're like invested each other you see us like socialised and off the pitch together and you see like we enjoy each other's company because well at the beginning it was probably forced but now it's like yeah now it's like we're actually all into it yeah and invested yeah you guys are all fully professional players aren't you which must allow you the luxury of

properly bonding because you can 100% dedicate yourself to your sport but it's not the case for all rugby players is it? You guys were telling me Moena at your club there's only a certain number of people who have professional contracts and there are other players

who were trying to be nurses, doctors teachers and hold down careers yet still train at the level that you guys are expected to? Yeah it is a lot I think I've been fortunate enough that I've kind of come in to the sport, I'm still quite young, so I've had that professional sense to start, but I know quite a few of the Red Roads have had to have jobs beforehand, and then, yeah, at sale, there is a large kind of amount of people that are still

having to work, and kind of our train doesn't start till, like, 4pm, so that people who have jobs, like 9 to 5, can still get to training and still do that, and yeah, I'm, I'm, like hats off to them because they've had a long day and then they've got to come and do like those sessions on a Tuesday which I don't know whether I could do it but yeah it's it's great for kind of them to be able to do it but I think how the game is growing it's hopefully heading towards that that doesn't have to happen anymore because recovery is one of the core pillars of fitness we cover this on woman's health all the time but you have to recover as well as you train and some of those girls or women who are having to do full-time jobs

can be very hard for them to recover efficiently to then train at their max capacity the next day. Yeah, no, definitely. I think also in the league we sometimes have Sunday games and so some of, like, we do get a Monday off, but then obviously people who work would have to then go to work on Monday, which is obviously very hard to do, and then they don't get a recovery in.

So it is a big problem at the moment. but hopefully it's kind of dwinded and out a little bit. And how do you guys feel on? Because we know obviously one thing your mum said about you is that she's so proud that you're a young role model and a kind role model for so many girls. Like young women genuinely look up to you girls and like, well, women and are like,

I want to be like that when I'm older, I want to play rugby. How does that feel? It surely must be a nice feeling to know that you're such a good role model for young women. Yeah, definitely. I think, kind of, I've always had role models growing up and to kind of know that I am one now. It's just a special feeling that it's nice to know that young girls and boys

look to me to kind of be an inspiration to hopefully stay in the sport. But yeah, it makes me proud to kind of pull on the shirt and stuff like that. Because Holly, you're a number 10, which is arguably one of the most high-profile positions on the pitch so you will be a role model to many do you have young girls coming after you at the end of games

yeah yeah no we do I think we're lucky at the moment as well because the fans are so invested obviously off the back at the World Cup but yeah you do it's weird when you get oh sorry it's weird when you get like young girls it still feels a bit alien to like have them hold you kind of on that

pedestal but I guess yeah it's nice because obviously now we are professional and we have these opportunities for them to kind of look at us, see us like maybe me and AIM didn't, when we were younger growing up and we're on TV and stuff like that now, and they can actually see us and see that's a career path.

Come and be a strong, powerful woman like this is an opportunity for you. One thing I love about women's sport is how much you hold each other up and it goes across the cross different sports as well. So this summer, you guys are all over social

media supporting the lionesses all over the main red road Instagram account and then when they won you had all the lionesses supporting you and I know Lucy Bronze we've had on the podcast she's a friend of women's health

she went to your winners parade that cross sport support doesn't exist in the men's game I can't imagine the men's football team really shouting out the Six Nations or the men's team for the World Cup and I think that's a great example

to the younger generations as well women holding other women up yeah I think it's we're not competing against them if they're doing well and we're doing well each time one of us raises the standard or pushes the boundaries on what it is in one sport we're helping each other so

yeah I think that supports huge and this summer was huge obviously we had the football us the cricket had their World Cup I think hockey have got something as well so the more connections we can get and the more we can build our profile their profile and push our game on their game on

like we're all winning yeah I think regardless of the sport you're all athletes so lionesses will know the graft and stuff you have to do same way you'll know how they have to work one of the things that England Netball is doing is the what I wish I knew campaign is brilliantness it's basically aiming to address

the knowledge gaps women and girls have about their health and about the impact it has on sports participation so we're going to ask to each of you what do you wish you knew about female health as you were growing up and dedicating yourself to playing sport. We'll start with you, Amy. What was it you wish you knew?

What I wish I knew was that it was okay to be heavy. Like, I think my weight was always vastly different to my friends at school. And I remember we used to get weighed, and some of my friends were like 40 kilos, and then I was like 60-odd kilos. And I was like, how is that even possible? Like, what's wrong with me? Why am I so heavy? But I think for me, it was now realizing my body was different,

but I've gone on and done something different. like those girls haven't now become a world champion at rugby and my body and my weight has been the thing that's allowed me to do that what about you huh I don't know if this is right but I think what I wish I knew which is kind of wrong on the same lines is that it's not manned me to kind of like do sport when I was younger and to like embrace my femininity be strong and powerful like that's not the detriment anymore like that's something

that we want to push to the forefront and like that's okay I think what I wish I knew is that kind of periods in our menstrual cycle can actually kind of help improve performance I think it's a big kind of taboo subject and people kind of at school you say I'm on my period I can't do PE but actually like in different stages you are

it is your super strength sometimes and to be able to use that that's true the week after I'm superwoman the week before I want to kill everyone honestly. I want to hear your answer, Gemma. What do you wish you knew when you were growing up about female health? I wish I knew that you're similar to what you said. Your body shape and size doesn't define you. I was always one of the tallest in my class. I hated running but we were made to do cross country and I could never do it. I couldn't keep up. I hated it and I used to

think oh my gosh I can't run. When we got a bit older and I did track and field I was the fourth leg the relay and the 100 metre sprint and I used to win that all the time so I could run just in short distances cross country wasn't for me short sprints are and I wish I knew that just because you can't do one thing very very good

doesn't mean you can't excel in something else what about you why it's to do with my boobs I wish I knew that sports bras existed they may well not have to be honest because I was in comprehensive school in the early

90s, but I just remember being uncomfortable. I've been black eyes. Yeah, I just had big boobs. And yeah, and I do, even today, young girls, like I wish that adequate kit is available to make you feel comfortable when you

are doing exercise, whether that is leggings and a good sports bra or whatever. That's what I wish I knew that good sports bras existed. And well, we're here tonight to watch England take on New Zealand. I mean, it's going to be a good game. This is the first actual, first professional live netball game that I'm going to be watching.

So I'm very, very excited. I feel like women are kind of dominating in sports at the minute. We're doing so, so well. What does the future for women's rugby look like? What are you just going to keep hold of that corpian? What are you going to do with it? It's not going back anywhere, is it, I hope. And they've got their medals on.

Well, two of them have, because Holly forgot her. Holly forgot a medal. You were instructed to bring it. I know, I'm really sorry. But you just didn't. No, I'm too sorry. She was in a clumsy phase. Go to start at Amy and Moena for a member of yours.

Sorry, I'm embarrassed. Yeah, I think the whole way through the World Cup, our kind of slogan was for the girls. And we knew that the World Cup was going to be more than just the group of people on that pitch. It was for the women that had gone before and laid the foundation and hopefully for the women that come afterwards. So, yeah, we want to just keep pushing the ceiling and pushing the boundaries and seeing how far we can go.

we sold out the final at Twickenham. We want to see if we can obviously sell it out more regularly and really push the game on. And these two are probably playing at the next one. I'm not sure my body will be holding up by then, but yeah, they'll probably get it again next time. You've got the Six Nations coming up in March, is it, for the women, March, April, for the men's?

Yeah, so you need to, although England, you do sell a lot tickets for the Six Nations, England, the Red Roses, don't you? Yeah, I think they've still like 40,000, is it so far? Yeah. Yeah. playing Ireland first, is it? I think it's island first at Jocanum, yeah.

I will come to watch you, but not support England because I'm Welsh. Sell the tickets, fine. Yeah, it's what you get for a prize. I consider you friends now. I haven't watched my friends. I will be supporting Wales when you play Wales. Holly, what do you hope for the future of women's rugby,

also women's sport? Because it is having a moment and it is growing, and the profile is increasing day by day. But what do you, maybe in 10 years' time, what do you predict? I think for women's rugby specifically, I think kind of what we just touched on with MOS, like for everyone to be professional and to have the same opportunity in the league,

that would be my wish. For women's sport as a whole, that's quite hard question, isn't it? I think just for this not to be like a flash of the pan, like for this to be consistent, for the coverage to be consistent, for us to gain momentum and for us to kind of not be pitted against the men,

for us to be seen as our own identity and for our own sports. Yeah, I think kind of both, like, with it a lot, but also for the grassroots game to grow. I think, like Amy said, for the girls is for us and past players, but also for future players. They kind of come through and, like, when I was younger, like not having to move club like for that not to have to happen

and kind of players to be able to come through their clubs and stay at that club until they kind of hopefully go professional and stuff like that and yeah like as a whole kind of women's sport just piggybacking off each other

I think kind of we did it off the lineesses but like next sport doing the same and kind of just all to grow together because then we have kind of that unity in that. Talking about rugby in particular, is the investment evenly spread across England

or is there a north-south divide? Because rugby union in particular, to me, feel like a southern England thing. I'm Welsh as a very working class sport in Wales, but we're in Manchester at the moment. What's the reality of rugby union up here? Yeah, I think there is still a massive divide. Like, I see like Sail Sharks as the only kind of premiership team above Loughborough, which is kind of Midlands.

And a couple years ago, potentially wasn't even going to be Sail Sharks. So, so happy that we've still got this team. And, like, that was one of the main reasons for me coming back, because I'm from Yorkshire originally. so kind of coming back up north and helping to grow the game up here because obviously like you said rugby union is considered a southern sport and rugby league

is probably more prominent up here but yeah just to grow the rugby union game up here is massive and I think it is getting better but yeah that funding still needs to kind of even out I think is it the union that's the posh one it's a posh down south

it's not posh in Wales no posh down south coming up here. It is, yeah, that's the perception of it, isn't it? Yeah, it's posh Southern boys. Yeah. Because Holly, you've just come back up from Bristol then, because you wanted to come back to your roots up here. Yeah, I'm the exact same as Moz. Like, when I heard this was probably three years ago when we were tendering to be part of the league again, that sale wasn't going to be a thing. I just thought there needs to be kind of role models in these spaces where girls are seeing that it's possible to play for England, be at the top of your game and play.

at a Northern Club. I'm from the North West originally, so that was, yeah, super important to me and why, part of the reason that I signed back up here. Yeah, Michelle's doing like an amazing job at sale, Michelle Orange. She's the owner of a club, one of the only women's owners, and she sits on a cross all over the boards at

the RFU, so she's making ways in her own right, but yeah, we need to be supported. There could be two clubs up here with Newcastle as well, but anything that we can do to kind of support the North, I think, is really important right now. definitely but we've just had a little 10 minute warning but before we go we have quick fire questions we do this every we do this with it if anyone who listens to the pod you'll know we do these

quick fire questions at the end just for a bit of fun so yeah we'll fire away right so we'll come to you first amy i think i think you all should answer all of them we've got time so amy jama and i are coming to your house for dinner we're stacking up on invitations you've got quite a few now so what are you going to cook for us a roast dinner for sure lovely yeah you can't beat it picks and blankets

nice yorkshire pudding yeah cauliflower cheese yeah lovely yeah let's make it happen are we happy with that happy with that one that would have been my answer as well

we can have two roast in a week I think you need to come up for something different I'll try and impress you I'll try and impress you I'll give you something easier a steak maybe I'll do steak and chips nice

happy with that Um, onion rings. Okay. Sorry, I wasn't expecting that. She's picky with food. You can't just tell me what you want. Um, I was thinking more, well, a steak, but a state pasta. Nice.

Oh, okay. Marcello and stuff on top. Lovely. You're going to have to start eating meat again. I know. You're very selective about eating meat. Oh, you're a veggie. I know.

Everyone suggests meat's fishes to us. Vegeter. I mean, I can't give up eggs and cheese. I wish, I mean, I love animals, but I love cheese. You go into a desert island for a year and you only get to take one object What's it going to be? I think I'd take a...

Is it a flint that you can start a fire? Okay, practical. Practical. I feel like I need to cook stuff and be warm. You could just rub sticks together to start a fire. Have you ever tried it? No. Did you see Jack do that in the jungle last weekend?

Jack Osborne was trying to start a fire on I'm at a celebrity. But he managed? He did, yeah. Yeah, I think that would be mine. Practical, sorry. Guys, I don't have an answer. I'm really sorry. What if other people said?

A mirror or something? A mirror. Karen Katz, one of the line essays, she said she'd take a ball, didn't she? Yeah. She was like, I'd take a football because she said it's my sport. It'll keep me entertained.

Yeah. I feel like you could make that, though. What, you'd make a book? Well, you could put leaves or something. It's not kicking coconuts around. Oh. It's not. Borks, haven't we?

You're not allowed to take your children. I know you haven't got any, but you're not allowed to take pets. It's like that's used to me. Quite a few people suggest their children. They are the last people I would take to a desert island. Yeah. I'm going for a break. I'm going for a ball.

A ball. A ball. Yeah, I take a rugby ball. Yep. Potentially like a music player or something just to have a different sound. Yeah. That's going on. This is a quick one, coffee or wine.

Wine. Red or white? Straight in. Red. Any, oh, you don't really care. You don't know anything. Got booze in it, okay. Just meck a bottle and hope for the best.

That's it. Coffee. Coffee, yes. Neither. I don't like either. I'm still young. You're still young? To drink coffee? I don't.

No, I don't drink either. So what, tea? No. You don't even drink tea? No, I'm a hot chocolate. Oh, my. Oh, my. I'm 12 years.

I'm sorry about that. No, no. Yeah, sorry, I'm really young. What chocolate is. what was the last thing that made you properly belly laugh can we say it yeah we're talking about this backstage Mitch our head coach he's just got a new Instagram page and it's hilarious

we just found it in the green room and it is so funny so probably that but we're probably all going to say the same thing but why is it so funny you can't just leave it hanging he's just the strangest man but like in the best way but he really gets that across on his Instagram page Oh, we don't have to check it out now. What is it called Mitch Factor Coaching? Yeah, have a look.

It's so funny. You get loads of followers now. He's got 400. Oh, bless him. He's completely unaware. He's being rinsed on it. He won't even care. He won't even care.

Yeah, he's the funniest man. Go on, Holly, what's the last thing that made you laugh? Apart from Mitch's Instagram. That video of Georgie, actually, before we came out. Sorry, Georgie. Georgie, what was it? Like a convenience store? something.

Who's Georgie? Your club captain. Yeah. Yeah. Georgie Perez Redden so she bays sale and USA went to decathlon with her earlier and we were just messing about and she got on one of the kids' scooters and put

a helmet on. I'll show you after. She's going to get loads of followers as well after this, right? Anything non-social media related makes you laugh. Okay, so we had a line out leader's meeting yesterday and Angi, our forwards coach

knocked over one of our Eva's Red Bull and it was on the table and Iona just walked in the door and he goes guys I'll just wipe this off the table he gets his hand and he wipes it just as Iona comes around the corner it goes all over her

it was so funny it was hilarious it was very funny And finally, to all of you, but I'm going to go with you first, Marano, because I feel like you're getting it easy. I'm good, aren't I? You're just getting the opportunity.

People are the best answers, Ayd. So we're going to go the other way. What's one thing people listening today can do to make themselves be that little bit better? Right, don't steal mine from the other. No. I'm going to have to go first. No, no.

She can't go first. To make it feel better. I'm going to go. Mine was, stroke a dog, like have a puppy or something, like go to a little puppy cafe. We saw a dog up there. It was working, but we were still stroking it anyway. Yeah, definitely dogs.

We go back to her, she got a hand at. I love going for a walk, kind of like just out in nature. So yeah, that's probably what I would do. Finally, Holly. Call a friend and reconnect. Nice. Dancers. Well, that's us.

and we've thoroughly enjoyed that, haven't we? Thank you for joining us here in Manchester at the AO Arena. It's brilliant. And well done, everything you've achieved so far and in your future careers and go win more World Caps. Maybe not you, Amy, but you said it.

I am old, yeah. And yeah, and let's watch England beat New Zealand tonight. Come on, England. Come on the roses. Thank you.