Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Gemma and Claire: The Clips We Still Talk About

Episode Date: October 13, 2026

From candid confessions to brilliant one-liners, Gemma Atkinson and Claire Sanderson look back on some of their favourite Just As Well moments together. Hear Gemma tease Claire about being shy, Kate Moyle explain squirting, Laura Hoggins challenge the idea that Pilates is enough, and Trinny Woodall get them moving. Plus, Giles Yeo on GLP-1s and changing celebrity bodies, Dr Vonda Wright on ageing, and Dr Louise Newson tackling the myth that HRT causes cancer. And, of course, the waxing story. Funny, frank and full of health conversations worth hearing again. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visit EDC.ca for more. Hello and welcome to this very special episode of Jester's well. It's a compilation episode where I look back at mine and Gemma's best bits. And why am I doing that? Well, I am devastated to share that Gemma is moving on from this podcast. I'm losing my psychic. I'm losing my best bud. I'm losing my better half. How else can I describe Gemma Atkinson?

She is a personal friend of mine outside of these four walls. So I'm truly, truly going to miss her. But it's not all bad news because I am not going anywhere and Jess as well is not going anywhere. And in fact, we have some really exciting news to share. Not yet, though, you need to keep your eyes peeled on social media in the coming days because Jess as well will be back next week and there will be a change. I'm excited, but in the meantime, I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Gemma, I love you and I will miss you. For now, everyone, please enjoy this very special episode. Right. Okay, life, this is our next thing. And I said to my mum, I cannot die because Sky needs me. That's not an option. So let's do this. Like that was literally how I kind of took it on.

And obviously I was upset and I cried and I had a very normal human reaction. But I was laughing. Even I filmed the face times. You can't hear him. But I can see myself laughing. And my mum just going on for God's sake, really making a joke. But I was like, that's how I get through it. I get upset and emotional about it now because I'm like,

I relive what I went through as a child with my mom sitting next to my bed. And I would always be like, she's still here. I'd wake up after having like a seizure with my heart disease because I was on very strong medication that used to make me pass out and have seizures and it was just and I ended up coming off of all of it because of the side effects and she'd be in the chair asleep and I'd be like, mum, go home and she'd be like, I'm not leaving you. And now I'm like, oh my goodness, I can't even imagine if that was sky.

So like I relive all of it now and I'm just like, oh, she's the best. And even now, the day I got diagnosed of breast cancer, my mum moved into my house. Yeah. It's clear where your resilience comes from. Yeah, my parents are another level. They've been married for 46 years. I get upset. They're just like best friends.

They just like, they just enjoy life. Like, my dad's been sick. My mum's been sick. Like, we've just, but they just show up. They're just, and their communication and humor and like Essex, man. you know what I mean it's all in there I'm just so grateful they're always looking on the silver lining

so that's how me and my sisters are because your mum's very hands on with Sky your stand as well isn't it? Well it's just me and my partner and my mum we don't have a nanny or any extra kind of additional help but beyond that but my mum doesn't live with us or she pops down every now and again like she's with us now because I'm busy

but usually it's just me and my partner but she's just the best and she was a nursery nurse for many many years so she's like oh I just made some play-dose And I'm like, sure. Like, she's like, he wanted to make biscuits. So I made him some sweet potato rosemary biscuits. And I'm like, okay.

Like, she's, I'm like, has Santa Claus called you yet to come back? Like, she's literally Mrs. Claus. She's the best, man. Like, my mom's the quiet little. My dad's the Labrador. My mom's the black cat. But my mom's the most sweetest. Like, you'll be like, oh, I really fancy like a, I don't know.

I'm really craving a jacky potato. And I'll get home from work. and I smell jack potatoes. Goodness. She's just that, she's just so, so thoughtful and kind. Do you rent her out? No, honestly, everyone that I know that, like, maybe doesn't have the best relationship with their mom or whatever,

like, everyone calls her mom that's, like, close to her. She's just, like, the baby whisperer. She's just the sweetest. She's just, I love her so much. My mom's no longer with us and listening to that. Yeah, she passed away last year with Alzheimer's. Oh, man. And she was, when she was,

wasn't ill because the final few years were quite awful with our tires but for she too was so hands-on with the grandkids and so cherish your mum oh I do trust me I do so and time is precious time is so precious man and I really don't take it for granted it's one of the things that I'm actually probably the most anxious about and I remember me and my mom crazy we had a conversation in my kitchen we talk about it all the time and I say I said to her we're so lucky as a family we've had no cancer in the family and she She was like, you know, it's one in two people now. And she went, so either I've got it or you've got it.

And I found my lump the next day. Isn't that crazy? And she got so upset. She said, I wish it was me. It shouldn't be you. And I was like, Mom, I can get through this. I'm glad it's not you. Like, you're nearly 70.

Let's... If anyone can, you bloody can. I mean, no, who knew? I didn't know if I was going to. But I won't go down without some laughs and some fun. We had a question in, I will just go through these. The top one, you were very embankering. with this one, weren't you?

Oh, look, this. She said, I cannot even ask this, Claire said, but I said, I'd ask it. But it did provoke a long conversation between us about the very nature of this because we... None of us knew what, none of us know what this is. Well, we know what the act is, but we don't actually know physically what it is.

So someone sent a question in saying, squirting, can anyone achieve it? Best ways to achieve it. I'm not too bothered, but my partner is. And we were like, what actually is it? The way, we, like, obviously we know what happens. But we were like, is it? it you're in? Is it like?

Yeah, because I have a work laptop. I don't be like... She couldn't Google it, yeah. I said to Google it. I said, Google it now. And she said, I can't. We're at work. And I said, well, I'm not Googling it on my phone. My kids. Surely it's like on my phone. It's the next women's health feature, isn't it? I don't want that on my search history. When Mia's trying to look for like YouTube kids. So, so what is it and can anyone achieve it? Yeah. So we actually don't have any specific research on what it is, why it happens. And what we think is that basically it's the expulsion of fluid from the urethra,

which is probably a mix of something kind of a fluid from a place called the skeeens glands and maybe some urine. It's not peeing. So that was the theory for a while. But basically it most commonly happens at peaks of high arousal and orgasm. Now it has become kind of really holy grailed in a way of people being like, oh my God, if that happens, then it means it's really good. For some people, it is a real indication that they've had a good time. For a lot of people, it will never happen. It doesn't mean anything more than you had a great time.

It might feel really satisfying for the people that are having it, but it isn't a kind of unicorn to be hunted and a thing to kind of put pressure on. Now, most people experience it when they're having a particular kind of type of pleasure, which is G-spot stimulation. So the G-spot, rather than being an anatomical structure, is a highly sensitive zone on the inside kind of front wall of the vagina, which is why a lot of sex toys might have that kind of slightly curved shape. And it's a part of the clitoral network.

And most people, and again, this is anecdotal or kind of reported, experience squirting when they're having kind of intense pleasure through that area being stimulated. But as to kind of exactly what's going on, we have no specifics of it, but that's the best information that we have at the moment. So it's not like something someone can, do on demand. No, it's an involuntary kind of response. But some people if they get to a particular

point, they might know that it's going to happen for them or it can be a part of their sex life. But one of the things that we know with orgasm, and a lot of women I work with, for example, are women who struggle to orgasm or haven't reached orgasm or don't know how to, is that the more pressure we put on it, the harder it becomes. It's a kind of ironic cycle of the more I focus on it, the more I try and get it actually the least likely it is to happen because that provides an anxiety, a goal, a distraction. And so we actually try and take pressure, kind of an expectation off in order to kind of get people

to a more relaxed, comfortable place. That was the next question. Someone said, I've never orgasmed, and they've said, what's wrong with me? Lessor. Nothing wrong with them. No, it's quite sad, blessed them. Yeah, and words like wrong, broken,

you know, I can't tell you how often I hear the word broken in my clinic, failure are a lot of the words that we hear when people are describing struggling with sex. And, you know, again, if there's anything I can kind of get people to take away from today, it's you are not. Like a lot of us are working in a kind of not perfect sexual culture. We haven't been given the tools like we have everything else in life. Most of us haven't had the education around this. And we're not taught to explore our bodies and to kind of get to know them.

And that conversation has shifted a lot. You know, the fact we're having this conversation today is a real indicator of that. But so many of us don't feel like we've been kind of well set up to know how to manage the part of our lives. There's a lot of women who haven't had an orgasm. It's a combination of what we call good conditions, so the right type of physical stimulation, psychologically being aroused, being turned on, being comfortable, being relaxed, and being in the moment. So the ability to kind of give ourselves permission to let it happen, to let go, again, a phrase that we hear a lot. And it's the kind of perfect triangle of those things. I'm a colleague of mine called Dr. Karen Gurney,

talks about that a lot. But also something that we see again in clinic anecdotally is people, for example, who are really like overthinkers or really preoccupied what's going on around them or might describe themselves as people pleases, find it difficult to focus on their own pleasure, their own experience, they're preoccupied with other aspects of sex or what's going on for their partner and it means it's harder for them to tune on, tune into themselves. And are you on the kind of mindset whereby obviously strength training is, It's clear you prioritize it and you advocate it for it. But there's lots of women who swear by like Pilates or yoga.

And is your approach kind of anything is better than nothing? Or is it at certain stages you have to, whether you like it or not, you need to strength train? Yeah. I think strength training is, yes, absolutely everyone should be strength training. Yes. I think the conversation around yoga and Pilates do I, advocate both of those methods of movement? Absolutely. I think they both have their role. Do I think that something like Pilates, which I think is having its moment, I think people think that that's

good enough. And I think Pilates is fantastic. It was sort of invented to help support rehabilitation and core stability and strength, but on its own is not full body resistance training in the way that, you know, dumbbells, free weights and all the equipment does for you. So I think as a place to start, depending on your experience, Pilates and yoga is great. And if you love it, like I love it, I do Pilates. I've very much been in my Pilates era the last couple of years. But for me, I am experience in strength training. So the stimulus that Pilates would give me is not enough to elicit a positive response in the muscle. Because when we're strength training, what we have to remember, as you know, is we have to apply that progressive overall.

And Pilates as a practice, it's really difficult to apply that constant overload. And you'll get to a point where Pilates just doesn't do it anymore in terms of the strength development. So I think Pilates has its place, but it is not the resistance training that I would advocate for the general population two, three times a week. Because I've seen a few things on social media recently of women showing pictures of themselves when they lifted weights. Yeah.

and genuinely saying, I used to look like this. I used to be bulky. They didn't. They just used to look amazing, gorgeous and strong. But now I look like this. And then there's pictures of them doing with former Pilates. Yeah, it's like one to bad.

Yeah, barely a muscle perceptible. And they're applauding this and celebrating this. And I think we are, as a culture, starting to celebrate smaller is better again. You have the emergence of GLP-1s, Hollywood actresses seemingly disappearing before our eyes in their sizes and I'm starting to see a worrying trend to smaller being better on social media which is such a shame because I thought we'd made strides to move away from that

yeah I completely agree and I think if you if you come back to the example of I used to lift weights and I look like this and now I look long and lean which really irritates me that how do you get long? longer. I'm going to say you can. And I've always been five foot three and I've been doing philitis for ages. So I need more money back from that. I didn't get longer. I think also what we have to remember is strength training is a stress. It can be intense. And I think if there's, there's much nuance to this. But if you are strength training and you are, you know, maybe you can attest to this in the days where you were doing real intense exercise, actually what's maybe

not happening, I hear a lot of people talking about inflammation when it comes to, you know, going to Pilates and reducing information, you have to enable yourself the time and space to recover from that stress that you're putting upon the body. It's not the stress that's the wrong thing. It's the fact that you haven't enabled yourself to recover from it. And that's due to life stress, your sleep, your nutrition, to enable the body to, I guess, look and feel its best. And I think now we go to Pilates, yes, you're not stressing the muscle in a way. So maybe you don't have as much muscle mass as before. That's not a positive thing. As we talk earlier about as you age, we're losing muscle mass in our sleep as we get older.

So we need to be stressing the body in the right way. But I also think Pilates is less intense. So I think some people are confusing that it's not the Pilates on its own. I think it's just you've given yourself a bit of time to recover and maybe you're not doing all the intense stuff. Yeah. Because less is more is working for me. Yes. Absolutely.

Because what you alluded to then is that years ago, eight years ago, nine years ago, I was doing too much. Yeah. And then I had all the tests that I'm very fortunate enough to experience being the editor-in-chief of woman's health. And I was told that my lactic acid levels were through the roof. I was told my inflammation levels were through the roof. And these were at a medical clinic. And I was told that increased inflammation and lactic acid can lead to life-limiting disease, cancer, etc.

because I was training like an athlete almost, but not recovering because it was, you know, I was going to these kind of high-intensity classes where you sprint and then go off and do squats and then get back on and sprint again. And I used to think it was a badge of honour to almost vomit on the gym floor. And it's like, oh, yeah, I've really pushed myself then.

But actually, I look better and feel better for lifting weights three or four times a week and around that doing low intensity. So walking on the stay stepper in the gym With a Netflix documentary on level 4 or 5 You know barely hardly breaking a sweat Yeah But I look and feel better for that

And it's just giving myself more rest There's a weird one that Katie Brindle taught me during lockdown When we were all feeling a bit blue So you can either jump up and down for a minute And do bunny hops which is like when you let your body go And you're just like, you're jumping up and down without any tension. I make audiences do this. If I'm speaking and the person who was speaking before me has been after lunch and then they're tired. I make them all stand up and do

bunny hops and I ask people if you need to go to Lou, please sit down. But it's a really good one because energize your body. So I love that. But otherwise, being by yourself and making yourself laugh continuously for a minute, which is something Katie Brendle taught me from who's a Chinese acupunctrists and does some things. And it's really weird. And you laugh, laughs. And then I did it during COVID with people live, you know, there's a thousand of us compulsively laughing in our homes where the people around, the probably think, what on earth is going on? And you, after a minute, you change your whole energy and you just think, because you've been smiling when you laugh for a full minute, which we don't always do, and you change everything. You change totally how you

feel. Let's just do it now for a minute. Should we just do it now? Yeah, because it's like, when you do it, you just kind of, it feels very self-conscious, but we're going to, somebody time us. And everyone else who's watching, just like, just tell anyone around you if you're in an office, go in the loo, but if you're like wherever you are, we're going to do it. And we're going to, we might have to move around because after a while it's weird how it, but we're just, are you ready? Yeah. I actually feel quite out of breath. It's so exhorting. But it like leaves this tingle in your body, okay.

And now we can't stop laughing. I know. I was great. I think it does something. It's like. it's like that type of... It's the vagus nerve, I think, isn't it? It's that vibration.

Them in the office, we're all shitting themselves. What is going on with that? Yeah, so I kind of, I love that one. And that's something that I do do. And then I do another, I do a meditation, which gives me energy. This is the audience participation part of the show. Okay. So if anyone's feeling like really tired, all right?

And they're just like, they got no energy. So you're going to have in front of, you, your hands are going to be as if they're holding a little ball. It's like the size of a very big tennis ball, all right, and it starts off small, so your hands can cup it, and then you go round with your hands all the way around this ball, all right? So you're kind of feeling this ball, and this ball is golden, and you feel it. Imagine it's in your hands, so how your hands will go round it is they couldn't go through it. You're kind of, you're turning this ball upside down. Close your eyes now. Close your eyes when you do this, and feel this ball, and this ball, and this ball

It's like a throbbing piece of the sun. It's so, it's vibrating. It's like raw energy. But it's a ball, and you've got it in palm of your hands. And that ball is getting a little bit bigger because it's so vibrating now that you can begin to feel as you turn, keep turning that ball,

keep to feel the light from that ball, and you will begin to feel in your fingers some energy. A little tingling sensation is in your fingers, You keep going round with that ball. And then you get that ball, and that ball is like an optimum peak of energy, and you push it in your heart. Push it in your heart now.

And feel your body has taken all that energy, and now feel your fingers, and just feel that little tingle. Because it's there, because we have inside us energy, and sometimes it's low, and sometimes it's high. And sometimes we need to remind it, and we need to kind of get it.

And I think always I can get it through my fingers, So if I get it to my fingers and I make that ball grow, shove it back inside me, I reset. So I do that too. I think as well the problem around them is if they're taking just people, because people are getting them without a prescription from wherever. And like you said at the start,

you can be classed as a certain health bracket determine on your weight as opposed to your muscle mass and your fat loss. With the GLP ones is a weight loss, if only done with the injection. If you're strength training, if you're eating enough protein and you're managing to maintain some kind of muscle mass and bone density,

then it's more fat loss. But because so many people are just taking them out of desperation, it's a whole weight loss, so then it's nutrients lost, it's minerals lost, it's hair loss, because your body then is not getting enough nutrients and vitamins. So is there a cause for there is an absolute place for them,

but only if done with the advice of someone medical and professional, not just I've seen it on the internet, I'm going to buy it and see what happens. I don't know if you know how many people take it in this country. So the numbers are really scary. So one in eight Americans, not one in eight Americans with obesity, one in eight Americans, adults, but one in eight Americans are on the JLP ones.

Wow. That's a lot of people. Then you think, wow, but America has a different kind of health care system. Last month, okay, in this country, in the UK, anywhere between 1.5 and 2.5 million people have been taking these drugs. And we have an NHS. In the last month. 95% of those, on average, 2 million people, okay, are doing it privately.

So why this big range? Because you think, well, hang on a second. Don't we know how many people get the drugs? we do when they take it off the NHS because the NHS will have records, everything is done, you know, everything is done. You do it privately, well, it depends where you get it from. You know, the more scrupulous pharmacists will report

and say how many, but there's got to be some like drugs are us. I don't know if this drugs are us, but you know what I mean? Like less scrupulous. So here's the problem. The safest place to get these drugs are going to be within an NHS setting because then you'll have to go to the doctor, they'll look at you that says, you don't need this drug or whatever. And they'll do your bloods and stuff.

They'll do your blood. They'll say, please come back in two months. We want to measure you. Whereas they're so easy to get. And the biggest problem with this drug. So people ask, what's my fear about these drugs? And it's not the side effects. There are side effects, but the severe ones are very, very rare.

That's not what concerns me. The main issue is these drugs do not have a weight limit to which they start working. So if you were 300 pounds, and you need to lose 50, these drugs may very well be designed for you, because that's what they're designed to do. The problem is these drugs will also work if you are a 60-year-old girl who's 70 pounds. It doesn't decide that because you're skinny,

I'm not going to work anymore. That's the danger of these drugs, which means that you really do have to make sure they end up in the right hands because otherwise something really bad is going to happen. That's my biggest fear. And we need legislations and safety barriers in place to prevent the 16-year-old 70-pound girl getting these drugs.

Because the problem we're facing societally now is you have certain Hollywood actresses who are seemingly shrinking before our very eyes. Have you seen the Oscars red carpet light? That's not yoga. I'm sorry. It's not yoga. It's a worry. And when I think at my time at Woman's Health, which is a decade,

and that look was coming to an end then. I remember the heroine sheik of the 90s in the early naughties, but it was coming to an end in the, like, 2017. And actually, different body shapes were being celebrated. Stronger body shapes were being celebrated for women. Lifting weights was applauded. And, you know, that CrossFit physique was seen as attractive, not sort of fetcher-sized. But are we going backwards?

Because the red carpets, which are very influential, because you see the images all over TikTok and, you know, the platforms that these younger girls are. are very influenced by and they idolize these women and skeletal is coming back. It seems in vogue again, which is a worry. It is a worry. No, no, like I said, this is the thing that worries me most about these drugs

because we're talking about them because too many people use them and discuss them as a cosmetic tool. And so we need to, we need, I mean, I do something like this for the very purpose is so that we reach your audience that, look, these are drugs, which means they come with side effects, They come with the good, they come with the bad. But you accept that because if you're ill, you don't want to be ill anymore.

You cannot use these. They should not be used as a cosmetic drug because then the cost-benefit analysis shifts to being, I just want to fit into a dress or something, right, versus I'm trying to lose weight for my health. I was introducing the framework earlier in our conversation of face, F-A-C-E, and I say, let's face our future. F-E is flexibility and joint range of motion that we just talked about. that's where Pilates and yoga fits in, actually. Many, many women love those practices. I hate it, I'm afraid.

I'm just... I do too. I don't do them, but yeah, yeah. The only way I do yoga is if it's hot yoga and it feels like a marathon. But many women love it. They do, but I feel like someone's still in an hour of my life away from you. I really hate it. Well, that is a good point because it is tiring, but it's not going to build enough muscle to save your life.

right? So, but that's where I fit it in because sometimes I have women who do so much Pilates, they'll say, I've done 2,500 classes, which is an astronomical number of whatever. Do you don't work? So go do your Pilates, but now we've got a pile on top. So flexibility and joint range of motion, number one, F-A is aerobics. Now listen, we were raised in the generation where aerobics were queen. You were running, you were Zumba-ing, or whatever the brand was, stepping. Yeah. And fine. Aerobic fitness is important because the number one killer of women, period, is cardiovascular disease. People are surprised when they learn that because they think it's breast cancer. It is not. It is cardiovascular disease. And in fact, here's the interesting thing. Many women who have breast cancer die of cardiovascular disease, not their breast cancer. So it's, it's

It's not that I don't value breast cancer. I was a cancer nurse. It's just that people are surprised, genuinely surprised. So aerobic is done in a different way in midlife and beyond. And the method that I teach is based on the science of a very famous endurance coach named Enigo San Milan, who has a lab in my building. So I've learned a lot about we're going to do 80% of our time at least. low heart rate base training or zone two. I don't like to use zone two because then it gets

very technical. But in low heart rate based training, which for many people can be a brisk walk, rower, elliptical, any apparatus works or the street works if you're going fast enough, 80% of the time, we are most metabolically efficient. Our little powerhouses in our body, or mitochondria are very flexible then, meaning they can use any food substrate to make your energy, and it's when we're burning fat. 80% of the time here, 20% of the time we are all out sprinting, meaning getting our heart rate up as fast as we can. Again, no matter what the apparatus is, but our heart rate as fast as it can go. Here's what happens during that time.

Our muscles stem cells replicate, our mitochondria replicate. We are working hard enough that our brain and our muscles know that we're alive and are replenishing themselves. But it's not all the time. So we're sprinting, air quote sprinting, at highest heart rate only for 30 seconds. And then we completely recover. And we do that for four reps. so it takes very little time to do that.

But these two ends of the spectrum, metabolic efficiency, enough stimulation your body knows it needs to get with it and be alive, is better for us than seven days a week in the middle, at middle heart rate, high intensity, but middle heart rate, where you're working hard enough that you may get injured, but you're not working hard enough for maximum metabolic efficiency. And so what I see all the time for people who work in the muddy middle is that they're more injured.

They've done so many reps. They're more injured, which then they have to take three weeks off, and that makes their brains angry, you know. And then they're frustrated that they're not making any progress. All right, so I've got one here for you, quite a personal one. Okay. Wax, shave, or laser.

Oh, I've been lasered. All of that? I've had laser on my legs, laser on my bikini, shade my armpits, but everything else has been lasered, but I've got this strip. I've kept the strip. I didn't want a dolphin's mouth strip. I remember I had everything waxed once. My friend Jem does my waxing, well, did my waxing.

And she used to break, leg right up, kid, leg back kid, get your own positions. And she said, have you ever had it all off, like Brazil? Is it a Brazilian or Hollywood? Hollywood all off, yeah. I said, no. And I was going on holiday. So she said, well, let's get it all off, see if you like it. And she got it all off.

And honestly, I didn't like it. I got home and I thought, it looked like I've got a dolphin's mouth. And then I felt like a bit, I don't know, I just didn't, I felt a bit young. I didn't like it. So when I came back, I said to her, don't ever give me that again. Always leave me something. And then as obviously time's gone on, she now does my laser. So I go like twice a year for a top-up.

but I haven't shaved my legs for about five months and they're air-free. That is good. My big socks. Yeah, I recommend laser and it's the ice laser so it's not painful.

There used to be a heat laser that was painful. But the ice doesn't hurt and it's quick. What about you? I'm hoping you wouldn't ask me. Make sure of both I have had laser

but I've not gone for the top-ups. So I now get... This is false. Yeah, so I get it waxed. I get it waxed. I get it waxed. And shave my legs.

Laser something, then I got, well, I'm going to go and do that. I'm going to do that. I've got one of those Phillips lasers at home. There's no excuse. I could do it because even the at home lasers are really good now these days. So maybe you've inspired me. I'll say, you need to do it in the winter, don't you? Yeah, because you can't do it when that's done.

It's a pain doing your top. When you do your first so many sessions, you're like, oh, God, but then when it's done, it's so much better. I've changed in my 20s, you know, and my career really started to kick off. And I was enjoying every second of it. I still do, but there wasn't, let's call it, a routine in place. Because you can get away with a lot in the 20s as well.

That's right. And also, you know, you learn a lot too. I made a lot of decisions. I even, you know, the whole thing of not getting eight hours. was asleep and I was still okay and something just goes and then everything changes. It's like it literally just happens overnight and then you're like, I can't do that anymore. Yeah. And it normally is around your 30s.

Yeah. But again, I was just solely based on longevity and I've kind of been obsessed with that since I guess since I think it started when my mother wasn't well and when she was, you know, diagnosed with breast cancer. and her actually pretty young age. And that really, I think, subconsciously got me aware of health. But in a quite obsessive manner, I've read about you, that you became a little bit paranoid and hyper-focused on your own health.

Yeah. I didn't notice it at the time, but yes, I was very more... I would say my reaction, if I would get sort of like a cold or a sniffle, like I would go into the sort of the worst-case scenario rather than being like, it's just a cold. And, yeah, that got some retraining. But it all stemmed from just kind of being younger and sort of seeing my mother not too well. And, yeah, I've gotten past that.

But yes, it's that sort of instant panic. And then you're like, oh, actually, I'm fine. And also you're young. So your mum was in her 40s when she had breast cancer. Yes, so my mother was in her late 30s, 39, I think. Young. Which is pretty young to be diagnosed. And I hear actually they're getting younger.

And so, yes, it's definitely. something I would say for all the women watching to check themselves as much as possible once a year at least. I'm hearing all the more often young healthy women being diagnosed with breast cancer. Jessie J., who was on the January cover and on this podcast. Oh, yeah. Amy Dowden, the dancer from Strickley, I don't know if you ever watched Strictly come dancing. She's one of the professional dancers. I didn't realize she was diagnosed.

Yeah, and she was on the cover of Women's Health a couple of years ago talking about her recovery. we've had Leanne Hainsby who's a Peloton instructor Yeah I know she had it And it's just becoming more and more common that younger women these days are being diagnosed And I've spoken to doctor friends about it And there is research being done into it

Because I'm sure you know The research into female health Is woeful in comparison to anything to do with men But there is research being done into it now As to why so many more younger women are being diagnosed I don't know I honestly just since you know I had that experience with my mother.

It was always about checking, checking, checking, which then led me into checking everything else, which then led me into that spiral that you were just mentioning. But then, yeah, I've sort of dialed it back, and it's called perspective. I think that that's what's really important. Working on that is there's nothing embarrassing about that, you know, doing therapy or what it is.

Yeah, you know, when something so close to you sort of gets weak, you know, you get affected by it. So what work did you do to move away from that obsessive, negative spiral in regards to your health? I just started to take control of my physical body. So I'm very aware of my posture and maybe sort of building strength. And I just really want to be strong. Like that's my goal. I don't want to sort of not be able to like bend down and pick up a pencil or something.

and, you know, I've only actually included weights the past two and a half years. My weights were always about one to three kilograms with Pilates and ankle weights and trying to get my body in the best shape possible. And then I realized, oh, I actually want to get strong. And so I figured out a way to use weights, obviously, with a bit of help, that worked for me. Yeah. So I'll take you back to when you were about 30 and you decided I'm going to focus on getting fit. What was the first steps that you took?

Well, physical training. I jumped on the treadmill, which I think is now looking back, it wasn't the right thing to do. I just think with women, our bodies are just built differently. You know, obviously hormones, bloating. You actually kind of hold a lot of water tension,

lymphatic drainage, learning how to dry brush, figuring out when to use a red light therapy or a bit of sauna if you can, even kind of like getting in the sun. for example for like 10 minutes, like all these things that are accessible, I just never appreciated until I got into my 30s. I mean, I'm going to start sounding like such a boring person,

but I love my sleep. I prioritize my sleep at least six times a week. And then I have like a night off where I like maybe go late and I go to dinner late and have a couple cocktails. Because I have to. I do enjoy it. Yeah, it's one about balance. It is.

And then I'm back on it on the Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Thursday, Thursday, Thursday, is Friday? What are the biggest myths slash challenges you encounter around HRT and women fighting to get it prescribed or the fear that women have for taking it? So I think the biggest myth about HRT is what it really is, because even the words hormone replacement therapy mean nothing. Because what hormone is it? It's not being very descriptive. We've got hundreds of hormones in our body. Replacement still isn't right either because sometimes we get. give it just to top up. You know, if someone's still having periods, they might have PMDD,

and we're just giving them some progesterone for a few days a month, so we're just topping them up. And therapy sounds like it's some, you know, talking treatment you need to be on a couch for or something. So I'm sort of more prescriptive with my language, really, and think about, well, is it progesterone? Is it estradi? Is it testosterone? Because the other thing is a lot of people call synthetic hormones,

hormones, and they're not. They're chemicals that have been made to be looked like hormones. So these are the older types of progestogens. to prescribe in HRT, the older types of estrogen, and actually all of the synthetic hormones that are in the contraceptives. They're not hormones, they're chemically altered. The HRT that we prescribe now is the same structure as our own hormones. So it's exactly the same as progesterone, estrogenal testosterone.

So if I'm with a patient or the words we use on balance up, it's a lot more about progesterine treatment, estradial treatment, testosterone treatment, because then you know what you're talking about. But the biggest thing, if you say to someone, what are the risks of HRT? They'll always say breast cancer because of this study that came out in 2002. But actually the women that had this small,

not statistically significant, increased risk of breast cancer, actually took this synthetic progestogen, which is in contraception, but not the body identical hormones. So it's an unfounded fear, but that fear is trickled through women, but more importantly it's trickle through healthcare professionals. And then that's why they're still scared.

but they're not thinking about the benefits of hormones for symptom control but also for future health. So to be clear, the type of HRT that I am prescribed currently through my NHS GP is bioidentical. You cannot get prescribed or should not be getting prescribed synthetic. A lot of people still are, though, so it's really important for people to check. So if people have the patches, gels or the spray that's only Easterdial, like it's a bit like food, you can look at the ingredients.

If it just says eustodial, then it means it's a bioidentical, the natural body identical estrogen. Some of the patches are combinations, so they might have a progestogen in it, and that will be synthetic. All the combination patches are synthetic. So normally we give the eustodial patch gel or spray, and then the progesterone is usually an oral capsule, or we can give it as a pezzary, and there's only one which says progesterone on it. A lot of them like mojoxypogesterone acetate, norathistrone, are synthetic progestergens. And then the testosterone, if it's the gel or the cream that's prescribed,

then it will be their body identical natural testosterone as well. Because my, as I shared with you years ago, my mother had breast cancer younger than I am now. So I was nervous about going on HRT. That said, I have been on it since we first met. So since I was 40. So I have not increased my risk of breast cancer or have I marginally, but the benefits out. actually, to be fair. I mean, the studies show that women who take estrogen have a lower instance of breast cancer, but those three hormones, progesterone, estrogen, testosterone,

very anti-inflammatory in the body. So if we've got less inflammation, we're going to have less cancer. So not just breast cancer, but other cancers as well. And, you know, we know that, that women who are on hormones less likely to have all inflammatory diseases, including cancer. So it's not like you've not increased it, you've probably reduced it, which is really important. And why do you think so many, like you said, a lot of GPs don't get that yet? Is it just depending on where they were trained or what stage throughout in life? Why is there so many? Well, it's interesting.

So a lot of it is because there's no training. And I mean, I wasn't trained. Nobody taught me anything at medical school. But I strongly feel as a healthcare professional, our training shouldn't stop the day we qualify. You know, we constantly need to learn. And actually, we need to unlearn because a lot of what we learn at medical school becomes out of date. There's new knowledge and everything else. but in medicine it's really difficult

because everyone's very busy and it's a bit like a hamster wheel really you're just getting through the day and the way we get taught often in medicine is quite sort of hierarchical you get taught by your seniors so if they say oh Louise we've always done it this way we've always prescribed this or not prescribed hormones

then you sort of learn it and think oh okay they must be right I've been quite lucky because I've worked as a medical writer for 25 years so I've worked part-time as a GP for 25 years and the rest of my time when I wasn't looking after my life children was as a medical writer so I've I've unpicked a lot of evidence on all sorts of conditions you know read guidelines read the original articles and I've written books on evidence-based medicine because it's really important that you know what's going on and I'm

quite inquisitive and a bit curious so I'll always be saying but why so even with the HRT but what are you talking about is it HRT or is it synthetic hormones knowing the difference but when I sort of talk to other doctors they're like oh I don't really understand I don't really know and in medicine And if you don't know, it's easier just not to do anything somehow. But that's not always the best for your patient.