Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - How To Deal with Lockdown Disappointment

Episode Date: April 9, 2020

We're two weeks into lockdown life and looking ahead to a sunny Easter weekend spent…indoors. Milestone birthdays are now reduced to a collection of small squares on a laptop screen and everything from holidays to weddings that have been months - years - in the planning have been called off. Of course, there are bigger things going on: people are losing their lives, their jobs and their loved ones during the coronavirus crisis. So, how do we manage our feelings about our own, comparatively trivial, lockdown losses when there’s a global pandemic unfolding - and is it okay to even ask the question? Yes, says this week’s guest, renowned psychotherapist and bestselling author Julia Samuel MBE. In this episode, she tells Roisín why it’s okay to feel gutted about disruptions in our own little worlds, how to process negative feelings and why emotional self-maintenance helps us show up better for those who need us right now.  Join Women’s Health on Instagram: @womenhealthuk Join Roisín on Instagram: @roisin.dervishokane Join Julia on Instagram: @juliasamuelmbe Topics: The importance of setting a routine right now A simple technique to stop catastrophising Angry journalling: why it might work for you Why doing good makes you feel better Offer: You can get six issues of Women’s Health magazine sent direct to your door priced at just £6 for 6 issues. That’s a massive saving of 76% on carefully-curated, award-winning journalism on health, wellness, nutrition, fitness and beauty. All you need to do is go to Hearstmagazines.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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on Paramount Plus. It's the epic return of Mayor of Kingstown. Warden? You know who I am? Starring Academy Award nominee Jeremy Runner. I swear in these walls. Emmy Award winner E.D. Falco. You're an ex-con who ran this place for years. And now, now you can't do that.

And Bafto Award winner, Lenny James. You're about to have a plague of outsiders descend on your town? Let me tell you this. It's got me consequences. Mayor of Kingstown. New season now streaming on Paramele Plus. Hi everyone. You're listening to Going for Goal, the weekly women's health podcast with me,

journalist and women's health senior editor, Rochean Dervas Chokane. Now, I think it's fair to say that your goals, like those of the team, have probably been altered beyond recognition as a result of COVID-19. When we asked on Instagram what you wanted to get out of these shows, the message was clear. Right now, your goals are to stay healthy and sane while staying. home. So that's what we're going to be helping you to do. This week, we're looking at the goal of managing disappointment and adjusting to this new reality that we find ourselves in.

Joining me to help is Julia Samuel MBE, a renowned therapist and author of the best-selling book GriefWorks, and most recently of This Two Shall Pass, stories of change, crisis and hopeful beginnings, which was published by Penguin last month. Welcome, Julia. Hello, Rashine. Lovely to meet you at these strange surreal time. I guess first question is, how are you doing? I'm okay. I mean, it does feel a bit like the weather. There are times I'm just busy and I'm getting on, or times I kind of enjoy being less busy than I would normally be. And then I suddenly do get sort of spurts of anxiety.

And that's normally directly related to watching the news. so I've limited that to once a day for about two minutes and that's all I can take right now and so you've authored a brilliant book which is all about change and obviously that came out in March and we're recording this in the first week of April and the timing seems almost spooky what do you what are some of the key lessons in there that you think we can apply during these very strange and altered times I mean it can The subtitle is stories of change, crisis and hopeful beginnings. And I guess the first message is that whether we want it or not, life is change, that there

will always be change that happens to us either developmentally as we age or through events that we choose or events that we don't choose. So it might be a health diagnosis or committing to a relationship or marriage, but there will always be change and the research is robust. Those that resist and block change have less joy and less success in life and find change harder. So we need to kind of fall back on our resources and our courage because change normally brings discomfort. That's the sort of siren chord of change. So we need to listen to it and pay attention to it and let it change us rather than block it.

What about this moment is so tough psychologically? It's something that I don't know if you feel like you've been through anything like this before, but I know for me it feels completely unique. I think this is a seismic change because it is both incredibly personal. Like everybody has their own individual story, an individual what I call living losses that have come as a response or because of the corona. and also a global pandemic. So there's a sort of universality, I can't say that word,

which in some way connects us. And I don't think anyone will come out of this unchanged. I think there will be a new normal that once we've navigated through this time, and one of the difficulties is not knowing the time. I think, you know, in the 21st century, because we have smartphones and science and technology, expect to be able to fix things and shape things or that somebody will come on the television screen and tell us what's going to happen. And this, all of us, are in the kind of land of not

knowing, which is very much like the grief is land of grief because you kind of feel thrown onto an alien landscape where everything that was familiar that you knew about yourself and the world is suddenly overnight change. So it's a massive challenge to face that and to adapt and grow with it and even thrive rather than kind of be shrunk by it and have quite severe mental difficulties. Are there any parallels between what we're going through now and the kind of the grief response? Yes, I think it's a very similar process in that, you know, at the beginning there's a shock and a numbness and a disbelief and all the people I talk to, they couldn't quite take it on board, they couldn't really concentrate, they became a bit frantic,

kind of searching, looking. And then I think in these few weeks that we face now, the reality of it and the meaning of it slowly sinks in. And then there will be the kind of pain of it in distress. So one thing that people are talking to us a lot about is disappointment. And almost their right to feel it because as you said Julia there the news is increasingly alarming we're getting increasingly scary data the death toll is rising there's massive economic uncertainty people are losing their jobs people are losing and going to lose loved ones so in that context it feels I don't know almost a little bit gratuitous to say oh I'm really annoyed that my wedding's being pulled off or my birthday trip to Paris, for example.

What's your advice for coping with disappointment and kind of putting it in context? I think the first one is that whatever you're feeling, you can't change what you feel, that it's normal to feel it and acknowledge and allow it. So it may be, you know, if it's your wedding that you've been planning for a year, you're going to be more than disappointed, you're going to be crushed, because this is a kind of life dream that you've hoped for. So even your birthday. So allow yourself to feel the loss and the sadness and the pissed offness

and all the different feelings that come with you and give them permission to go through your system. Also kind of recognize that comparing yourself to others or comparing your unique situation to others is a route to kind of craziness that it doesn't really help you. And maybe the third one is if you're feeling that what you're feeling is too much,

that maybe you can do something for others, so do something for your community that can help balance both your sadness and your sense that your overreaction because we know that altruism, that reaching out, helping others is better for your immunity, it helps you feel better about yourself and it makes others feel better. So it's like a triple win.

And we saw it, you know, last week 700,000 people responded to the call for volunteers. So I think all of us have it in us. But I think the other side of it is to develop tools to soothe yourself when you feel upset. So you kind of know what works for you. I mean, for most people, exercise is a real key to, it reduces the cortisol, the fear and anxiety in your body. And then that kind of meditation, maybe begin to do your gratitude, listening to happy music. So shift your mood by your behaviour. So as human beings, everything that we watch, listen to, eat,

who we talk to, whatever streaming into our body has an effect on our body and our mood. So be aware of what you're putting into yourself. will affect how you feel and the level of your disappointment. So I guess in your line of work, you're dealing with emotional intelligence and emotional management on a day to day. And I think that maybe for some people, perhaps those who haven't really engaged with therapy before,

this is a time when we probably all need to be doing a little bit of that. I think so. I mean, I think we are being exposed and forced to look at ourselves and our families. and our way of living that we have never been exposed before. And that is a stress and anxiety provoking. And it is an opportunity. It is a way of kind of having time that you can explore your beliefs.

You know, it might change people's perceptions about their life, what really matters, who really matters to them, what makes their life worth living. And we know that happiness isn't really about money or status. It's much more about meaning and connection. And so, you know, I don't think we'll ever take away the complexity and the loss that this time has had and that we have to acknowledge and allow that. But there is also this other aspect, which is post-traumatic growth,

that people learn about themselves in a way that they never did before and they discover qualities in themselves or aspects of themselves or the beliefs that they never, never did before either. And that can feel like growth. So tell me about, because of some interesting stages then, within almost this grief process, as we're saying before. Where do you think we're at now? As I said, we're recording this on the 3rd of April. Where do you think we've started at? Where are we at now? And where do you think there is potential to go in this emotional cycle? So, I mean, as in all emotional cycles, it's not really one step, two step, but you can move in and out of it.

And I think the overarching image to have is that you are in a new landscape, an internal and external landscape, to allow yourself and give permission to yourself that what you feel is what you feel. And to some extent, this is a fertile void, that this is a new place for you and that it will take longer to adjust than you would like. And then the feelings that are likely to come up

are, as you say, they're disappointment. So first of all, it might be disbelief and you minimize it. Or if you're at the other end of the spectrum, you may catastrophize it. You may have had huge surges of anxiety at the beginning and you kind of think the world is coming to an end or you're at the other end

and you think, oh, they're just making a such, of us. And then I think as time goes on, the meaning begins to sink in. And that will bring a sense of uncertainty, confusion, depression, you kind of lose confidence. What do I believe in now? Is it everything going to be okay? And then over time, as you allow that, there is a beginning of a letting go of having control. There is a beginning of acceptance and accommodation to this new normal and there is an integration and exploratory aspect of discovery as you move into a kind of new phase and come out the other changed and that is the adaptation process if you support yourself in it and there's a fabulous graph in your book that actually shows you how people can come out

really well if they respond to change if they respond to it in a kind of a dynamic way What do you imagine for yourself? So what you kind of fearful of? What do you think will support you? Because I think the most personal is the most universal. Oh, interesting. I think I'm missing my friend, colleagues. I miss my office, which I never thought I'd say. I'd never really thought I was that much for a routine person. And sometimes it's only once you've had it taken away that you realize how much you miss it. I am with, I think it's the lack of certainty more than anything. I think I'm a relatively adaptable person. But yeah, there's a worry about will things ever get back to normal. So if I talked to that, if I was your therapist, I would say create a new structure, a flexible one. I mean, not a police state, but create new habits for this new normal that you're in.

And also keep your focus on short skyline. So keep your focus for today in the next few days. Because if you put it to the future, you can drive yourself mad with incredible, colourful scenarios and stories that are catastrophic. And the truth is none of us know. So sort of wheel yourself back. And there's a technique that you can have

if you put in your mind the image of a television screen and you put the image of it of the catastrophe you that you've imagined, you take a breath, you switch the channel and you put an image of a safe place or a happy place or your favourite mountain or walk or beach or whatever, take a breath and then move your attention to what you're doing. And the more you do that, that stops you kind of marching, you know, terrifying yourself. Yeah, and almost forecasting into the unknown. And that is absolutely right. And also remember that a feeling isn't a fact.

So you may feel terrified and fearful, but that doesn't mean something terrible is going to happen to you. So separate the two. Don't conflate them. You are not your thoughts. Yeah, that's a great way of saying it. Okay, so that's two really good tips. The first one was like this, almost changing the channel, mental trick, to stop forecasting.

The second then is to, what conclusion do we come? structure, new skylines, exercise, meditation, gratitude, balancing things. So whatever you put into your system of balance. And the big one is connection to others. Book time with people who really love you and know you,

that you can laugh with, that you can kind of be pissed off with, that you can have fun with. And the other thing is dance. So dance and yoga are the two exercises that decrease trauma in your body more than anything else. So kind of put some music on in the kitchen, have a glass of wine,

is it called house party? You know, ring a friend, have a bit of a boogie, you know, create space for fun and connection to other people and do it consciously, because that will give you the resilience, the resources, the bandwidth to stand when you, to bear the kind of, when you wake up with the crushing disappointment in the morning, and you want to kill everybody.

If you have enough fun the day before, that will allow you to kind of take a breath and be more balanced. I love that. So, and I guess it's almost like you, as you said, if you're grieving the loss of, it might be your wedding, which I know is a situation.

One of our staff members has had to call up hers. It's just gutting. And that level and preparation, lots of that, or anyone I know that is in that position, is all, they're being very outwardly stoic about it because obviously they know it's nothing in comparison to all these other things. But so you're saying if you have...

Don't compare. Allow yourself the feelings journal them. So journaling is as good as talking. Write it down and write it down furiously. How pissed off you are. How furious you are. I mean, I would say it's miles more than disappointment if you've cancelled your wedding.

It's probably fury that you feel isn't socially acceptable. be furious on a page. Get it out of your system and then do something that is intentionally calming. Like, you know, watching your favourite telly, putting flowers somewhere nice, having a lovely bath, talking to a friend. So intentionally doing things that soothe you really helps.

And that's that point that you were talking about previously about balance. Yeah. If you think of your emotional self as a bandwidth where you have joy and happiness one end, and you have pain and distress the other end, the things that you do to block the pain will also incrementally block your capacity to feel joy. Does that make sense?

So that you have a narrower emotional capacity. And then you work fine, you function, but your emotional engagement with life is very flatline. And we all kind of know people like that who, if you kind of knock on the way, them, you feel like they're a tin because they've shut so much down. So what I'm saying is find a way of expressing what you feel and letting it out. And then rather than letting that kind of take over, also do things that soothe you and comfort you and make you feel safe

after you've expressed it because you need a balance of both. And then you will feel generally calmer. Whereas if you block the fury, it will just sit there in a little kind of position in your body and it will come out in the small stuff. When you support Movember, you're not just fundraising. You're showing up for the men you love. Your dad, your brother, your partner, your friends. It isn't just a men's issue. It's a human one.

That's why Movember exists to change the face of men's health. From mental health and suicide prevention to prostate and testicular cancer research and early detection, Movember is tackling the biggest health issues facing men today. Join the movement and donate now at Movember.com. What do you think about the idea of plans for after all of this? So thinking about, I don't know, where might you want to go on holiday or vision boarding stuff and thinking how helpful do you think that is or do you think there's more merit in what you advise me to do, which is this take a chunk of time, take a few days.

at a time. I think sort of allow both. So in your day-to-day kind of self-management, keep it in the day in the next few days. But I think it is kind of resourceful to dream, you know, to have dreams. Don't set it in stone and kind of decide this is what I'm going to do. But, you know, have dreams, write them down, look up places. Because I think that is fun and it is exciting. but just be, don't be too kind of controlled about it. I think that's the thing that we're learning is that fundamentally over the things that matter to us most, which is our health and our life and our death, we influence, but we don't have control. And so there's the paradox.

The more you accept the aspects of things that you cannot change, the more likely it is that change will occur. So kind of accept that you won't necessarily have it, but also allow yourself to explore and experiment and talk to friends and have fun with it, play with it. I think playing is going to be really important over the next weeks. That's so funny that you mentioned that point about the control. I don't know if that's towards the end of the book, but actually wrote down that quote and I thought that was brilliant. But when facing disruption, it can also be liberating to remind ourselves that we have no

control over the key things in life that matter most to us. Life and death, the behaviour and feelings of the people around us, we can influence them that fighting to have absolute control is futile. Yeah, eerily resonant right now. And the serenity prayer is good, you know, from AA, to accept the things I cannot change, change the things I can, and have the wisdom to know the difference. I think we should have that sort of tattooed on our forehead at the moment,

or on the bridge anyway. Totally. I love what you were saying there about play as well. It feels like our worlds have been literally shrunk, been so used to having, well, not everyone, of course, and speaking from an incredibly privileged position, but used to being able to pretty much do whatever you want to do. We've lost all those possibilities, we've lost a lot of plans.

We've, for many of us, and also tragically, we've lost a lot of potential responsibilities. It seems to me almost like we have to maybe feel our way a little bit. So in thinking what makes us happy now, whether that is intimacy with a partner or, dancing with a glass of wine or letting ourselves just feel completely gutted and write a really long and extended and sweary diary entry. Would you agree that's something that we could all be thinking about right now? Yeah, it's a real loss. We can't deny it. And through that,

we might discover aspects of ourselves. We'd never choose to discover from this kind of event, but we might discover aspects of ourselves of life that will feel like growth and that we do need hope for that. And I think hope is an intention. It isn't just luck. And it's an attitude. And to have a growthful mindset,

I think is also an attitude. And that isn't about being perfect. It's like recognizing our complete imperfections and all of that. But I think the big message I've seen from everybody is about community and connection. that people have been the best of themselves in some ways and what really matters. And I think that, I hope that we learn something from that that is meaningful. Absolutely.

And as we said then at the start and something that I know I've been wrestling with and lots of my friends and colleagues and stuff have been wrestling with, this sense of I don't really deserve to feel sad because everything's fine for me. The best way then, rather than trying to force that feeling of being a bit gutted down, the best thing that you can do is allow yourself to respond to that emotionally, but then actually do something for other people. Do something for the other people that you feel so dreadful for, whether it's joining the volunteer force or donating stuff to a food bank

or can it even, I guess it's just even within your own community and your own family, isn't it? In your street, knock on the door or put a note through the door of the people in your street saying, I live in number 24, this is my email. If you're socially isolating and you can't get out, let me know. And I'll get your food when I get mine. And those can be lovely small acts of kindness that don't really put you out, but mean a lot. Before we go, if there is one tip that you would want listeners to take away, what would it be? I think it would be to be self-compassionate and compassionate to others, that kindness is contagious.

And that's probably what we need right now. Okay, Julia, thank you so much for coming on. Totally my pleasure. And thanks all of you for listening. Now, before I go, I have to tell you about a brilliant offer that's currently running on Women's Health magazine. You can now have it sent direct to your door, priced at just £6 for six issues.

That's a massive saving of 76% and carefully curated award-winning journalism on everything from health and wellness to nutrition and beauty. All you need to do is go to hurstmagis.com. As ever, if you like this episode, do rate and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as it really helps other people find the show. I'll be back next week with another episode to help you stay healthy while staying home. Until then, take care, everyone.