Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - How To Get Fitter, Stronger and Be Kinder To Yourself with Alice Liveing

Episode Date: November 12, 2020

Whatever level of Covid restrictions you’re living under right now, there’s a high chance that you’ll be working on your fitness from your living room this November - as opposed to the gym floor. One woman who knows a thing or two about home workouts is today’s guest, PT, Instagram star and 3x WH covergirl - and columnist - Alice Liveing. Here she speaks to WH Editor-in-Chief Claire Sanderson (back before the latest restrictions came into force in England) and they cover a lot: from at-home fitness making a healthy lifestyle more accessible to what to do to ensure you’re properly challenging yourself and making gains at home - whatever those may look like to you. They also discuss the complex place we’re in with body politics in 2020, and why if weight loss or altering your body composition is a goal for you, that’s totally okay - provided your motivation and your means for getting there are healthy. Of course, staying healthy in lockdown isn’t just about fitness; Alice also talks about mental health, specifically her health anxiety and how she’s managing this condition against the ultra-triggering backdrop of a global pandemic.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, you are listening to Going for Goal, the weekly Women's Health podcast. I'm your host, Rochene DeVich O'Kane, senior editor on women's health, and this is your weekly chance to plug in and be inspired to work on your health and wellness. Firstly, I just want to apologise for an error in last week's show. I said that the UK was going into a national lockdown when, in fact, although Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are subject to various levels of restrictions, It was only England that was going into the nationwide lockdown, so sorry for any confusion. Still, whatever specific restrictions are in place where you are, there's a high chance that you'll be working on your fitness from your living room, as opposed to the gym floor.

And one woman who knows a thing or two about home workouts is today's guest, P.T., Instagram star and three times women's health cover girl and columnist, Alice Living. She speaks to her friend and women's health's editor-in-chief Claire Sanderson back before the latest restriction. came into force, and they cover a lot. From at-home fitness, making a fit and healthy lifestyle more accessible, to what to do to ensure you're properly challenging yourself and making gains at home, whatever those might look like to you. They also discuss the complex place we're in with body politics in 2020, and why, if weight loss or altering your body composition is a goal for you right now, that's totally okay, provided your motivation and your means for getting there are healthy and Alice has plenty of suggestions. Of course, health in lockdown isn't just about

fitness and Alice also opens up about her mental health, notably her health anxiety and how she's managing this condition against the ultra-triggering backdrop of a global pandemic. It's a great conversation and I hope you enjoy it. Over to Claire. Hello everyone. I'm Claire Sanderson and I'm the editor-in-chief of Women's Health. I am joined today by a huge friend of the brand. She's been on the cover three times. She's a woman's self columnist. She's a personal trainer. She's a presenter. She's the creator of three best-selling active wear lines with the prime arc. Anyone want to get who she is? She is, of course, Alice Living. Hi, Alice. How are you today? Hello. I'm good. I'm good. It's so nice to see you. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to speak to us, Alice, out of your

very, very busy schedule. I'm lucky enough to call you a friend and you are my personal trainer. So I know first-hand just how busy you are. But can you tell us a bit about what you're up to at the moment and what life has been like in this COVID world we live in and, you know, how you're going to move forward through it as well? Yeah, I mean, it's been a really interesting time, particularly for the fitness industry, I think. You know, it's when we went into lockdown, I never really imagine that the fitness boom

could get any bigger, you know, like we've seen the fitness industry and the fitness landscape grow and expand so much over the last couple of years that I thought we'd kind of hit a bit of a plateau with that. But come lockdown, it just seemed like people were seriously interested in using exercise as a way to cope with what was going on around them, to fill time in our days where we just had to sit at home doing nothing. And so I really noticed that I started to get super busy with just teaching. You know, I early on very much recognized that I wanted to try and do something to help people. And I'm sure we all had that feeling of, I want to do something to contribute because we were all sat at home feeling a little bit helpless. So my way of being able

to do that was to use my skill set as a personal trainer and say, okay, you know what? I might not be able to get out and coach people one to one, but I can definitely reach thousands of people by just teaching online, as so many did. So I started teaching my online classes, ended up raising £16,000 for women's aid, which was really amazing to do because as a kind of part of COVID, domestic violence cases increased over the lockdown period. So it was really important that I did something

that contributed towards their work. And then, yeah, coming out the back of lockdown, I've kind of found myself in this funny limbo phase of doing lots of stuff at home still, lots of Zooms, lots of working from home. also trying to go back to a sense of normality. So, you know, we've seen each other at the gym and I'm trying to get out and try and find, you know, a normal routine. But it is a little bit difficult. So, you know, it's been really nice for myself to get back into my own training.

You know, I predominantly train in a gym. So home workouts were a real novelty for me. And it's not that I didn't love them. I did. But it's really nice to get back into a gym and like have a barbell and start, start training again. So that's been really nice. So yeah, it's been a funny time. So you are back in the gym and you've trained me in the gym, but there's not that many people back, certainly in central London gyms. And women's health, we did a survey last week. And we only put it out for 24 hours and we had 13,000 respondents. And 85% of women said they were still working out from home. Is that what you're hearing from your audience as well? Yeah, definitely. And I think it's a combination of things that have caused that. I think, um, the first thing that I would say is people have really recognized that they can still get a really good workout in from the comfort of their own home. So prior to lockdown, I think home workouts within the fitness industry were a little bit sort of, I mean, it's not that they weren't done. It's just they weren't seen in the same kind of like, they weren't seen as as essential as they are now.

So they were a little bit, basically the phrase I wanted to say was they were a little bit poo-poohed within the fitness industry. It's like, oh, home workout. Whereas actually what lockdown has done has meant everyone's had to train from home. And a lot of people have recognized that they can get a good workout in from home without needing to pay for an expensive gym membership or to travel into the town to go to the gym. So that's been great. The second thing that I would say is I think purely from a perspective of the time that we're currently in, I think a lot of people are still very nervous to enter into an environment that is historically kind of seen as a bit of a germ festival. location. I mean, like obviously, as you know, for example, we both train at third space.

They've been amazing at keeping the gym incredibly clean and I do feel really safe going there myself. But I think people have this perception of gyms being a little bit more dirty and, you know, we're all grabbing the same weights and using the same barbells and stuff. So I can understand why people would feel hesitant in that sense. But also I think it's more just a convenience thing. You know, like for a lot of people, they're not traveling into the city. So for example, where you and I live, people aren't coming into the inter-central London anymore. They're staying at home. And if their gym was in town, they're not going to go in to come back out again. So purely from a logistical perspective, it just doesn't make sense for a lot of people to go to the gym.

And I think, you know, ultimately, this has been a really unprecedented time, as I'm sure you probably said many times in this podcast. It has been a very unprecedented time. But it's really had positives that have come from it too. And I think one of the positives is home workouts have been seen in a much better light. You know, they are catered for more than ever now, which is great. And it means the exercise is therefore so much more accessible than it was before. You know, if we think pre-COVID, the cost of a gym membership, the cost of having to travel to and from the gym, for example, the barrier to entry for exercise, for some people,

seemed very high. Whereas now we're all on the same playing field in terms of understanding how to train from home. there being way more ideas and inspiration, both online and within different programmes out there, that cater to the home workout kind of population. And I think that's great. And it does mean that exercise is more accessible, which is, I guess, what we all want at the end of the day. There were so many stories that came out during the, you know, the dark days of lockdown about how women found exercise. I read, you know, lots of women found it through Joe X, for instance, doing pee with Joe with their children.

and then women went on to find hit classes at home. It's been the great democratiser almost, hasn't it, lockdown? Can I just say, can I just say I loved watching you do it with your kids? That was the highlight of my lockdown days. Tuning into your stories and just seeing you do a couple of, and Nell doing her little jumps up and down. I think it's great that Joe Wicks is excellent. Like, what a legend.

I mean, I just thought that was. And I saw so many families that it was almost like a unifier for people, that it brought them together. An exercise is that? Absolutely. So if people are choosing to work out from home, what's the, and they may have limited space, they may have no equipment because you have to remorgas your house these days if you want dumbbells because they're so expensive and kettlebells. I cannot believe how expensive they are. So if people are, just need to use their environment and sort of equipment that they would naturally find in their home,

what's a sort of perfect ideal home workout? How would you go about building one? So obviously I want to caveat this with it depends on your training ability and it. it depends on your goals. But home workouts generally, I would always start with some form of body weight exercises. So if you think about the stuff that I would generally do in the gym, squats, lunges, push-ups, you can do all of those from home. It doesn't matter that you don't have load. You can play around with things like tempo. You can play around with high volumes of those exercises. And also there are exercises like push-ups, for example, was something that I saw so many women across lockdown really focused on trying to get better at because there's no equipment

required. It's a really tough upper body exercise and it's a nice way to be able to see progression. You know, you might start by doing one against a wall, for example, and then slowly, slowly as you get stronger build up to coming down to the floor. So I would start with those kind of key movement patterns that we generally do in the gym anyway. But there are also other things. You know, it depends on what you enjoy, but definitely the sort of more high intensity style workouts are good one or two times a week if you want to have a real sweat, which I know you love Claire. and otherwise if you're not into that sort of thing, I would go down the route of things like more Pilates,

mat-based work, really good for building that pelvic floor strength and core strength, things like yoga. So I think the variety is endless. And, you know, body weight exercises aren't easier. I think that's what people tend to think. They think, oh, I haven't got heavy weight, so it must be easier. You can make things as difficult as you want them to be. You know, okay, we can't get, you know, a heavy barbell back squat in the

the comfort of our living room, but we can definitely challenge our squat in different ways. And then it's about looking at, okay, I can't challenge myself with weight. So can I challenge myself with different movement skills? So over lockdown, something like a pistol squat was something that I challenged a lot of my clients with because it's an amazing body weight exercise that really takes a lot of skill and is a real challenge. So it was more about can we challenge ourselves in different ways with different movements and that just require our body weight. So I think those are the things that I would tend to focus on. So can you explain what A pistol squat is, please.

So a pistol squat is a single-legged squat. You ideally want to keep a relatively upright torso. You're going to bend one leg into the body and then have one leg extended out of you. And if you want to be really fancy, you can hold onto your foot with your hands. And then you're going to squat down and stand back up again. And I would give you my example, Claire, but I seem to have regressed on my progress with those over the last couple of weeks. And I would probably fall into a heap on the floor. I can't do it.

We've sort of tried to work on them, haven't we? But doing them with the... We've done them with the TRX. Yeah. And the TRX and with the box as well. Yeah. So everyone at home, if you want to have a little go without going to the most challenging variation, get a chair, make sure it's in a secure place, and then stand on one leg.

And I just want you to sit down onto the chair and stand up again without putting your other leg on the floor. So just a one-legged, squat to a chair and stand back up again. That's your little challenge for me today. And I can guarantee you'll find one leg much easier than the other because most people do, don't they? So my right leg, I can do it all day.

Left, useless. But that's imbalances, which is something that you have written about in a forthcoming issue of women's health, which people need to look out for. I was just about to say that's my column over the next, I think one of the next few issues coming out, we cover strength imbalances.

So definitely do check that out. Yes. So what is that then? We all have it, because I've read to your piece this morning, actually, have proof read it. and it's where one side of the body is naturally stronger than the other and probably a result of carrying bags on one side or sitting awkwardly. Exactly. And it doesn't even have to be that.

It can just be that, you know, a lot of the times that we see people that write with their right hand, for example, you're a little bit stronger on one side. We have natural imbalances and strength just through our daily movement patterns and how we move generally. And it's not something to be hugely concerned about, you know, I see this kind of big narrative of being like, oh my God, even our strength and balance. you know, for the most part, it's not a huge issue. But if you have very obvious strength and balances, for example, with you, Claire, we've really worked on trying to even out the strength and balances

within your legs. And that's, that's due to a prior injury. And so there's definitely a weakness on one side. And obviously, each case is very different. But if you have a very obvious strength and balance, then there are definitely things that you can start to do to try and even that out a little little bit. And we do look to unilateral exercises. So single leg or single arm exercises to really address that. So if you're only doing bilateral exercises and by bilateral, I mean things like where both feet are on the floor are using both arms at the same time. So basically both sides of the body are working at the same time. It's very hard to even out strength imbalances because one side is always going to be doing a little bit more work than the other,

which is why when we break it down to single arm exercises or single leg exercises, we're able to really see the imbalance. And then maybe, for example, one of the tips that I put in the column that I wrote was always start with your weakest side first. It's a really good place to go because if you're doing your strong side first thinking, oh, this feels great. And then you're already in a little bit of a fatigued state, your weaker side is going to feel 10 times harder. So always go for the weakest side first and then you're stronger side. So yeah, definitely have a read of the column for my top tips there. So you're a big proponent of strength training. So many women are frightened of picking up weights. They've shared this time and time again. They don't want to pick up

weights more than 3KG because they think they're going to get bigger. What is your response to that? Well, firstly, I think, well, I could answer this in two ways. The first thing is we need to address why women are afraid of getting bigger and why muscle on women is kind of demonised or seen as a bad thing because firstly I think that's crazy. And, you know, I want to look strong. And that's something that I really like. But, you know, if we look back 10, 20 years, muscular women, were kind of, yeah, demonised in a way. And I think we need to address that. But the second thing I would say is it's actually not physically possible

for women to put on muscle in the way that they think they're going to. We simply don't produce enough testosterone to, you know, suddenly become the incredible Hulk. And actually, the other thing that I'm wrong women of is how incredibly hard it is to even put on a tiny bit of muscle. You know, people think, you know, I get a message so often by people who say, you know, I've been lifting weights for two weeks and I've suddenly got really bulk and it's like, doesn't really work like that.

takes months of progressive overload to even lay down a little bit of muscle. So really not being fearful of the idea of getting stronger. And then the final thing I would say is if we took away the way that we look, which ultimately, you know, is I guess one of the motivators that encourages people to train, but shouldn't be the only reason. And we look at all of the other positive benefits of strength training. Strength training is incredibly important for women around the menopause to try and maintain that bone density. Like it's proven that it's really beneficial as you move later in life. So definitely one of the things that you want to be focusing on. But also we look at things like just improved like proprioception and stability, balance.

Like there are so many benefits that just go beyond the way that we look. And then the last point I would say, sorry, I've kind of waffled on a little bit, but the last point I would say is that any form of exercise can help to maintain body composition in combination with a healthy life stand and whatever. No, you know, I would say that actually on the flip side of women thinking they're going to get bulky, I would say strength training is actually one of the best things for improving body composition if that's what you want to achieve. So yeah, I get very sad when women sort of say, oh no, I don't want to get bulky. I don't want to lift heavy weights because I just think it doesn't happen that way. But unfortunately, that was a narrative that was

kind of peddled out by various different trainers, particularly women, over the last 20 years. and it's been really difficult to undo. So hopefully people like myself, you know, I look at people like Laura Hoggins who I adore and many, many other women within the industry who are really now championing strength training. And I'm so pleased that the narrative is slowly changing. It is slow, though.

You know, I lift weights, not as heavy as Laura Hoggins, who I love dearly as well. But when I go to classes, I'm definitely, even though I'm one of the oldest women, that I'm still lifting heavier weights than all the women and most of the men. And it's, and I feel like saying to them, what are you afraid of? You know, that 4KG is not going to do much for your deadlift, you know? And it's, it's funny.

And it is as a narrative. It's so deeply ingrained, isn't it? But you do see women, especially that the CrossFit type physique, who are bigger and who look amazing and strong and powerful. but so I think women then look at that physique and think, well, those men are bigger. But what they don't realize is those women are lifting serious weights, aren't they? And they are training multiple times a day. They're professional athletes. Yeah, exactly.

The thing is, and this is an issue that goes way beyond just about women lifting weights. But, you know, you can never look at someone and know the full picture. You know, I could look at you and say, you know, and I've actually wrote a post- about this the other day about, you know, it's really important not to judge anyone's bodies without knowing the full content. Well, never judge anyone's bodies full stop, but also we never know the full context. So you might look at a cross-fitter and think, oh, God, she must lift weights and therefore get bulky. They don't see years and years of training and lifting weights and the correct nutrition that's got her to that point, which is her desired physique, which is beautiful and

should be celebrated. Yeah. Because, you know, we just make snap judgment. So I think it's really important that, you know, we, we understand that it's never right to make a judgment about anyone's bodies because we will never understand the full context and you'll never know, you know, I mean, I spoke about this in the sense that, you know, a lot of people comment on people's weight loss, for example, and be like, oh, wow, you look amazing, you look great, but never really know why that's going on or if there might be kind of a sinister reason as to why that's happening. For example, they're going through a really tough time mentally or they're struggling in their relationship or whatever. You just never really know. So I just think, you know, when you're going

to exercise, just have a focus on what you want to achieve, try not to compare yourself to other people's bodies, try not to think about, you know, not wanting to look like that or wanting to look like that and just think, okay, let me embrace this for what it is. Let me get the most out of my body. Because also the most important thing, Claire, as you know, is we are all so unique. So my body is never going to look like yours. Yours is never going to look like mine. So we can sit here and think, oh God, I don't want to look like her or, oh, God, I really want to look like her. But ultimately, we're never going to look like anyone because we are all individuals who have, you know, our own bodies. And yes, we can have certain changes within our own bodies,

depending on what we do. But I just think it's, it's important to start celebrating our own bodies rather than comparing ourselves to other people's. So you touched upon weight loss there. Now, weight loss is a phrase, or losing weight as a phrase, has become somewhat demonized. And it's now seen as not cool to say, I want to lose weight. When the reality is losing weight can be a healthy endeavor if it's done properly and with correct nutrition and you don't, you know, cut out food groups needlessly.

But there's definitely this groundswell between us now. And you've seen women saying they've been attacked for saying they want to lose weight on social media. And I fully endorse that we should celebrate all healthy bodies. But I equally believe that people's choices should be respected. know this is something that you and I have discussed at length, actually. Yeah, I think it's really interesting. And I think ultimately, my stance on this is we should all have autonomy to choose what we want

to do with our own bodies. And who am I to say that someone's decision to want to lose weight is wrong? I think as long as it's done for the right reasons. And believe me, when I say, you know, I understand that there are definitely people, myself included, who went too far with the weight loss thing. And there are people who do it because they're just desperate to, look a certain way and actually that's done, you know, to fill a void of unhappiness. That was my experience anyway. You know, I spoke about this at length on my stories the other day,

but, you know, my weight loss is very much. I was unhappy and I thought that being thinner was going to make me happier. And that wasn't the right reason to do that. But, you know, if you're in a good space and, you know, you think that it's a challenge that you want to set yourself, who am I to say that that's not something you should do? So I think ultimately, you know, I believe that across the board, however you want to approach your health and your body, should be something that only you get to decide. And that's not for me. That's not for you. That's not for anyone on social media or anyone out there to dictate otherwise. And that's kind of how I feel about it. You know, we all should be able to make choices for our own bodies without

feeling shamed or kind of ashamed of what we're doing. So if somebody does want to lose weight and we know that nutrition is key. It's so key. You can't out-train the bad diet. You know, the same as you. I've over-diated in the past. I've over-trained in the past, so I feel I could write a book about it all.

But I'm not qualified to do so, so I won't. But from an exercise point of view, what would you say is the optimum exercise routine to adopt if your plan is to lose weight? or let's just change, let's say change body composition because it might be actually that you remain the same weight but you get leaner through optimal nutrition and exercise. So what would be your advice to someone in that situation?

So that's a huge question with quite a varied answer. So the first thing I would say is that ultimately, you know, if we look at exercise and how much it contributes towards fat loss or a changing of body composition, exercise actually makes up a very small percentage of that. So we have our exercise activity thermogenesis, which is the energy burned when we're exercising. And then we have our non-exercise activity thermogenesis, which is all of the movement that we do outside of exercising. And that makes up a much bigger portion of a contribution towards our overall energy output

during the day. So I think what happens with when people have a fat loss goal or a weight loss goal, They focus on the exercise. They go really hardcore in the exercise. And it's like, this is a thing that I need to be doing. I need to be doing cardio and I need to be smashing myself in the gym. And actually, we see that as being a very small portion of people's overall deficit that they're creating. And actually, alongside that, what you then tend to see is people under-eating, over-training and ending up completely fatigued and unable to sustain that level of intensity because that's not healthy. and it's really important to stress that. If I was someone who had that goal, I think it would be really important that I understood that whilst exercise is important and something like strength training to maintain muscle mass

is definitely important, and that's what I would recommend. I'd also look at a lot of other things. So I would not only look at my exercise, which would be strength training for my preference. I would also look at how much I'm moving each day, so I'd try and make sure that I'm walking enough each day and just getting up and moving around more than if I was completely sedentary throughout the day.

So we know that we just sitting, doing absolutely nothing. So our basal metabolic rate is X. Should we just sit and do nothing? So we still burn energy regardless of whether we're moving or not. So I try and increase that by moving more each day. And you can do things like get out for a walk every day. Maybe it's that you don't take public transport and you walk to work instead. And just little things that you can start to incorporate to make sure that you are just

moving that little bit more. And then obviously, as you indicated, nutrition is also important. So I would be speaking to someone who's qualified within that field. Obviously, you and I, neither of us are nutritionists and neither of us special in that field. So I really look to people online, for example, who are qualified within that field and who are able to give specific advice there. And then lastly, that thing that I touched on when we first started was the recovery element. You know, people tend to forget recovery completely because they're so focused on their goal. And actually, I love it. I think it's Justin Thompson, who is an amazing trainer who I know you've done stuff with at women's health, but she says that you need to recover as hard as you train.

And I really love that because it's so true. If you have a long-term goal of fat loss, you need to make sure that your energy stores are there. You need to make sure that you are able to train in the intensity that you want to. And to do that, you need to make sure that you're recovering as hard as your training. So it's not about let me go as hard and fast as I possibly can. Absolutely not. And that would not be my advice at all. Mine would be let's look at a long term sustainable program. Let's make sure that you're recovering. Let's make sure that we're checking in each week to make sure that you're feeling at your best when you enter into each session. And also let's make sure that we are keeping the sessions at an intensity that you're able to cope with.

So I think, you know, it's funny people's perceptions of exercise and how much it contributes towards the fat loss goal, but I think we need to really look at the bigger picture here rather than just focusing on the exercise. It's funny how hard some people find it to recover, and I am one of them, and you know what I'm like. I do throw myself that exercise, you know, I just go hellful leather. And I did yesterday in third space. And today I'm on a really heavy period.

I feel wiped out. And I'm forcing myself not to do exercise, which is ridiculous. and I just want to get on my Peloton bike and I know that it is not what I should be doing today but it's so hard to listen to your own body, isn't it? It's very, very hard to know what is best for you and you're actually, recovery is key. And I think knowing you as a friend and as a client,

what I would say with you is your lifestyle is, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. So you're not only stressing yourself with exercise, you're stressing yourself with work, you're a busy mom, you've got all of, lots of other things going on. So what we try and do, which I know that you find difficult sometimes, is we do try and pull things back. You know, I am the biggest advocate of a rest day. You know, I think people think that personal trainers are people that tell you to push through and there's no excuses and whatever.

That is the complete opposite of how I practice, as I'm sure you know. You know, if you need to take rest, I would far rather that you do that. And ultimately, I think the best thing that I've just heard from what you've said is that you are listening to your body, that you are recognizing that you need rest, particularly women who are dealing with their cycle. You know, there are definitely going to be parts of the month where you just don't feel like it. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you need to push through. I'm going to sit here and tell you you do what feels best for you. So, yeah, I think it's really important that we have a lot more appreciation for rest across the board,

but no matter what exercise you're doing. So let's talk about mental health. Now, the nation's mental health is under attack at the moment. We just did a survey at women's health. The results are coming out in November, October. and 75% of respondents said they feel that their mental health has deteriorated this year and 82% are seriously concerned about the quality of their mental health going forward. Now, you and I are very open about our mental health struggles.

You've spoken about anxiety, you've had panic attacks when you were younger, you've spoken at length about having health anxiety recently. How do you preserve your own mental health? Well, you know, I think it's a really difficult thing because you're absolutely right. We're experiencing a collective trauma right now going through a completely unprecedented time, experiencing things that we never thought we would. And I think ultimately my kind of key, you know, coping mechanisms are three things. The first thing is I have to talk to people. I have to force myself to say, I've had a bad day or I'm struggling or I'm really finding this difficult.

If I don't do that, I bottle it up and I'm like a little pressure cooker and it gets worse and it gets worse and with every day, it feels so much worse than if I just let off that little bit of steam and share how I'm feeling. So when Paddy comes home from work, which he's now, he's now going into the office or when we sat down at the end of a day during lockdown, if I was feeling something, I would really try and be proactive at just saying, do you know what, I'm really struggling with this or I felt this and can we talk about it? And I think it doesn't have to be your boyfriend. It doesn't have to be your partner. It can be a friend. It can be someone, just someone that you trust. Just being able to have that open dialogue with one person where you are

able to and feel comfortable to share how you feel is one of the best things that I do because it is like just letting off that little bit of steam, even in our session sometimes. I call myself part time, person trainer, part time counselor. But we both let off steam to each other about various, things and it does feel better for doing it. You know, if you are able to share a problem, my mum always taught me problem shared as a problem half. And sometimes it does feel that way, not always, but sometimes. So I do think talking is the most important thing. And the second thing is I am a big believer in movement for mental well-being. And I'm saying movement specifically because I know we've talked a lot about strength training, but I don't actually necessarily lean on strength

training as much for my mental health, I really lean on walking. I actually find walking the most meditative, calming thing. And particularly during lockdown when we only got that hour of time outside, I really realized how much I relied on walking to just improve my mood, to make me feel good. So I do my training in the morning. But then I'd look forward to that hour outside every single day just to get outside and get some fresh air. And I think that walking, I think it's even been shown that like during walking, like you're able to almost fall into a meditative state. And just being outside in nature is also really good for your mental health. So that's my second thing. And then lastly, I've saved this for last because I think it's a slightly privileged kind of

thing to say because I know that this isn't accessible for everyone. But I saw out a therapist during lockdown. And I've had therapy before, but I never really found it stuck with me. I just didn't get on with the therapist or didn't quite, I wasn't in the right headspace, basically. But during lockdown, I found a therapist and it's been the best thing that I've ever done. And I feel so much better as a result of just having someone that I can speak to who's completely impartial, who I can say whatever I want to, who I can talk about things. And, you know, she's relatively young and so she gets the world that I work in and she understands, you know, the difficulties that that sometimes throws up and she's amazing and that's been such a saviour for me

because I did really struggle at points during lockdown, particularly with health anxiety. God, I was in a really bad way early on. So it's been, it's been really helpful for me to have that. Can you tell us a bit about your health anxiety? People might not be too familiar with the phrase and what it means. Yeah. I mean, so I have anxiety in various different forms. And it's such a difficult thing to talk about because anxiety for a lot of people

seems like a very, I hate to say this word, but it seems like a very top level mental health condition. Like people just like, oh yeah, it's a bit of anxiety and it's a bit trivialized. And actually for me, like when I am in a bad space with my anxiety, I'm on the phone to the doctor, I'm crying, I'm thinking, I think I'm dying, you know, I cancel everything, I don't go out.

I literally think the worst. And it stops me living my life. And I think ultimately, like, I didn't quite realize how bad it had got until I spoke to this therapist and I told her some of the things that I'd been thinking of feeling. And also my doctor had really flagged me. You know, like, I thankfully have a really good relationship with my GP. And she's very, very understanding of the fact that I sometimes rock up there and say, I think I'm dying.

Can you just tell me that I'm not? but I need that reassurance because in my head things are so bad that I just think I'm, you know, I'm gone for. And I can talk about it now because I'm not in a bad space and I'm actually in a really good space and I'm able to look back and think, oh God, that, yeah, that was really silly. But at the time, I feel so consumed by anxiety that I retreat into myself completely. And it's so difficult to get myself back out of that space because the initial instinct for me when I am in a bad space of my anxiety is to not talk to anyone, to not go out, to not socialise, to just completely retreat.

And that for me is just a really difficult space. And so when people talk about anxiety, and I sort of hate when it's seen as a very trivial thing, because for me, it stops me living my life. It's so debilitating at times that I cannot do my job and I cannot live. my life normally and I think people need to have a lot more understanding of how it can manifest and I know that you have also suffered in in various different ways with your mental health and you understand that it's it's just it's a really difficult thing to try and explain and particularly when you're in it it's the hardest thing to communicate because you're like I can't you know

I've had times with Paddy where I've tried to say you know I remember it's awful things that stuff I can't even say but I remember just trying to say to him like how I was feeling and what I thought was wrong with me and he's like no you're fine I'm like no you don't and it's just horrible it is really horrible so thankfully like she's my therapist has been amazing with that and and has really helped me to sort of develop a bit more rational thought when I'm in a state of such anxiety and I think that's the number one thing that goes out the window is rational thought goes out the window and I suddenly become this completely paranoid person um so she's really helped with that and it's good to know that if I am in a bit of a crisis situation that I have someone

that I can now lean on who understands me enough to know how to deal with that. I remember I had cognitive behavioural therapy, which is teaching you how to combat your irrational thoughts. So I now have, if I'm going through an anxious period, I now have the common sense of me knows I'm being irrational and knows that this is not making sense. And for want of a better word, I'm being silly. But then the emotional part of you, the anxious part of just takes over and you go with it anyway and it's a vicious cycle and it's very hard to get out of. Absolutely. You're so right that it's always you're splitting too because part of me knows that nothing is wrong with me and then part of me is so convinced that I am, you know, sick that

my brain just really struggles with that kind of two and fro between those two. Yeah, that you know with me it manifests in how I look and there are times that it can go on for weeks at a time where I'm absolutely mortified by how I look. But the common sense side of my brain knows that I look fine for a 42-year-old mother of two. But the anxious, irrational side of me just gets better. So yeah, well, let's look forward to the future then. What does the future look like for fitness in your opinion? And what's the future for Alice Living? Well, I think the future for fitness is so exciting. I think we only have exciting things to come in the fitness landscape. I definitely see there being, you know, as we

spoke about earlier, a huge increase in home workout options and offerings across the board. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what people come out with that with that. As well as I think offerings of, you know, we spoke about kit being really expensive and I think that's definitely something that should change. I hope over the next few months that we see much more accessible options for people to be able to train from home because I think it's crazy the prices that they're charging right now, you're absolutely right. But I also think that there will be much more looking at things like on-demand options. So as per the lives that were so popular during lockdown, I think those are going to be transferred to more kind of slipped up

versions such as things like the app fit, which I think, and also if you've seen Apple have launched their new offering, which I think this looks great. So definitely those kind of things are going to be big business. And also things like, you know, I know you love your Peloton. And I think those kind of home workout options where there's a really, you know, the thing with Peloton is like there's such a variety of work that you can do with it that you don't really need anything else. So I definitely think those kind of homework are offerings are going to be on the rise. And then when it comes to me, speaking of, offerings. Well, I definitely have something that's very exciting coming that's launching in January.

Obviously, women's health will have the first scoop when it does get announced, but yeah. But for now, just look forward to it. Final question. This podcast is called Go In for Goal. So what is your number one goal? Oh, I mean, I'm so boring when it comes to things like this, because I just say my number one goal is for me to be happy, however that looks. I know that sounds really cheesy, but, you know, I've, I guess, actually, having just said what I said. I want to be successful within the fitness industry with my new offering. That's my number one goal right now. But like long term, I think, you know, I've had so many ups and downs and worn so many different hats and been so many different things that ultimately

I just want to end my life with, you know, happiness and health. That was a cheesy. End your life. It's a cheesy end. It's a cheesy end. They're rather bleak as well. I just want to, when I die, I'm happy. But on that note, Alice Living, thank you so much for joining me today on... Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Bye. Bye.

You have been listening to Alice Living in conversation with Women's Health's Editor-in-Chief Claire Sanderson. I really hope you enjoyed it. I just think she's a little ray of sunshine. And that is welcome right now, more than ever. If you have any comments or questions that you like to share with us about today's show, You can get in touch with us through all the normal ways and all the details are in the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, or if not, but, you know, we'd probably prefer to hear if you've enjoyed yourself. You can rate or review on Apple Podcasts and remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcast so that you never miss an episode.

Final thing to say is that we make this podcast for you and you make this podcast. So if there's any topics that you want our experts to cover or if there's a celebrity that you're dying to hear, interviewed on the show. Get in touch and let us know. We'll see what we can do. Right, that's enough from me. Stay safe, everyone. I'll be back next week. Bye.