Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - I Thought Seeking Postnatal Help Made Me a Failure | Dr Punam Krishan

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

In this deeply emotional episode of Just As Well, GP and BBC Morning Live's Dr. Punam Krishan opens up about the birth trauma that nearly took her life and how it transformed her mission in medicine. From ICU and sepsis to postnatal depression, Dr. Punam shares what so many women experience but too few talk about. We discuss the gaps in postnatal care, the stigma around maternal mental health, especially in South Asian communities, and how she's championing compassionate, preventative care for every new mum. For support, contact @pandas_uk who offer mental health services for parents from conception, birth and beyond. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross-Draining Treadplus at OnePeloton.ca. Had this baby that I had wanted with all my heart

and I couldn't bond and I had everybody around me and they were all well-meaning. And I actually ended up with really severe post-natal depression. as a society, being taught to accept that it's all in our head. When it comes to things like, as you say, chronic pain, women are dismissed. Hi, I'm Gemma Atkinson. And I'm Claire Sanderson, the editor-in-chief of Woman's Health. We've just recorded an episode with Dr Poonam, Christian, who's a GP.

She's on Morning Live. She's an incredible woman. And I think so far it's been our most emotional chat we've had on just as well. Yeah, I felt moved to tears, as was she, I could tell. And our lovely producer who was behind the camera here also said that she shed a tear. It was an emotional listen. It took me off guard, actually, because I wasn't expecting it. I didn't know that about her.

And it was talking about her birth trauma, but she really, really had a traumatic experience. And she used that traumatic birth experience. I mean, she nearly died, didn't she? She was in intensive care. She had sepsis. heart failure, liver failure. I mean, we'll let Poonham tell you're on the episode. But she used that experience to put into practice in her own profession

because she never, ever wanted a woman to feel, not neglected. Like she said, the caregivers were lovely with her, but there just wasn't enough care and knowledge within the package postpartum, post becoming a new mum. So she has taken that mission upon herself to ensure women get better health care after becoming new mums, which I think is brilliant. Yeah, she said, she had severe postnatal depression,

not a surprise, considering everything she went through, yet when she went to her GP, she didn't feel seen. I think she said she had seven minutes and she was basically told to leave the prescription for antidepressants and she didn't feel like the doctor had sat and heard and listened to her.

But we also, GPs, they're so stretched these days, aren't they? And they have a quota on their head of patients they have to see that day. So this is not at all an attack on on medics. It's just she said. It's the NHS time. Yeah.

She said the government needs to make changes and hopefully one day. One day they will. But she's also an advocate of preventative medicine, which a few of our guests have spoke openly about, which I think is brilliant. You know, she's all for, there is a place for medicine and she openly said, I do prescribe HRT, I do prescribe antibiotics.

But before that, I ask how someone's stress levels are, what the nutrition is, how well, sleeping, you know, she goes through a lot of things that could be addressed through diet and lifestyle before just handing someone medicine, which I, I thought was really, really interesting. Yeah, she's a big advocate for preventative medicine. She said her grandfather was a very well-known Ayurvedic doctor in India, which I found really interesting. So she said some of the recipes that she now uses with Herschel, and she even said that she suggested one of them to you when your little girl was run down and it worked.

It worked. Mia was poorly and it was when she was dancing with Gorka on Strickley she said, tell her to do this and it was milk, cinnamon, turmeric and a bit of ginger just in a pan, not boiled, just simmered nice and warm. Hugging a mug, she calls it. Mia drank that. She woke up in the morning like a new little human.

Remarkable, so I'm going to try that. You just said when Mia was dancing with Gokker on Strictly, you meant Poonam was. That's how long this day's been. Let's get into it. the episode. This is our chat with Dr. Poonam. Welcome to another episode of Just as Well. Today we are joined by the lovely Dr Poonam Christian. She's a practicing NHS GP, a media medic based in Glasgow. And Dr Poonan is a resident GP on the popular daytime show BBC Morning Live and they cover everything

and anything related to health and lifestyle. She was also a contestant on the latest series of Strictly Come Dancing. She danced with Gorker. They did very, very well. Yes. And in 2022, Dr Poonam authored her first children's book, How to Be a Doctor and Other Life Saving Jobs. As a mother of two young children as well, she has a specialist interest in maternal and family health, as well as mental health. So much so, her third children's book will be published on the 7th of August, and it's called the Superheroes First Aid Manual. It covers the first aid skills that children age 7 to 11 need to know. So you've been really busy. And I think people are quite shocked when they hear you are a practice in GP.

All this showbiz, glitz and all the TV stuff is on the side of your regular job. Yeah. I mean, I always find it surprising that people find it surprising that I'm still working. But no, very much still in NHS GP. I work four days a week in an NHS practice in Glasgow. And very much, like the media work came a lot later. I mean, I'm entering my 20th year as a doctor qualified in 2006. And yeah, the media work came later.

My GP work is my proud and joy. It's my bread and butter. But then I get to do all this wonderful other stuff that really taps into my creative space. But I think that both of my jobs and career paths kind of lend into each other. My media work very much, you know, allows me to reach more people,

allows me to educate and basically really, like, easy to understand practical health advice, especially in an era where there's so much misinformation and conflicted advice out there. But then back in GP land, I'm with real people, with real stories. It keeps me grounded. It gives me a huge dose of daily perspective. So yeah, it's busy.

It's a juggle. It's not easy. Not with kids as well. I do. I spend a lot of time feeling frazzled. But I love it. Because what you see in clinic and learn from your patients must inform what you then go on good morning live and talk about because that's a tiny,

lens of the bigger reality of what's going on societally in the UK? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I see everything. I mean, we talk about primary care GPs being cradle to grave care, but we do. You never know what's coming through the door. Every 10 to 15 minutes, it could be a baby, it could be an elderly person, it could be somebody with lots of complex health conditions. You just never know.

But one thing that's changed over certainly my 20 years in the NHS is the access to care has changed. that we are so overstretched within the NHS and you just don't have that same time that you used to have in being able to educate people like simple things about their health and how to live better, how to prevent illnesses

as opposed to just be reactive medicine. So Morning Live gives me the opportunity to do that. You're speaking to the general public. You're reaching Joe blogs and helping them distill the complex information and just very easy to understand ways. You've got like 90 seconds to explain. a complex health condition but also say, well, here's something, here's some bite-sized things,

some hacks, some tips that you can do to better your health. And I think it's just a really powerful platform to have, I feel very grateful for it. Because you're described as a holistic lifestyle medicine advocate in terms of when we spoke to lots of guests who said similar, it's prevention over cure if you can. And obviously there's a massive place for medicine when it's needed. But if you can avoid having to take that in the first place, I remember when you were dancing with Gorka and Mia got run down and you said before you go straight to the medicines, try the warm milk with the turmeric and it worked. Poonam gave us a recipe. That was it your grandma used to make. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was my grandma's turmeric milk. Yeah. And it is that this is

exactly what it is. I mean, I'm really blessed in that I grew up. My grandfather was a very well-known Ayurvedic doctor. Now, when I was a kid growing up in the West End of Glasgow, I didn't really like believe in all of this. It was a way of life for us, but I was like, I'm going to be a proper scientist one day. But I'd always have my grandfather, and he lived in India, and we would visit him for all of summer, but he would always phone, like, if you take this herb or you take this spice and you do this with these leaves, this will help you feel better. And it always did. And I think what I can have very much learned from the Eastern wisdom, now blended with my knowledge of Western medicine is that holistic medicine is about seeing the person as a whole. We are a balance,

like health is a balance. It's about energy. It's about connection. And yes, medicine has a role in it, but it isn't everything. And so being able to tap into things like Arvedic medicine or herbal remedies or the power of turmeric, which we know a lot of evidence supports, we can turn to those that can help support our well-being. And it doesn't always have to be medicine. Now, I do prescribe HRT, prescribe inhalers, but I also talk to people about their stress levels, their movement levels, what their diets like, and you want to be able to kind of really give them a whole prescription. Yeah, it's brilliant. But increasingly challenging in the very small, strict amount of time that you have in your GP clinic,

it's... It is challenging. I mean, I am, if you speak to anybody in my practice, I am the one that runs the longest. It's why patients do have to wait for a very long time, because I'm in there. going to tell me what happened to you when you were 10? Tell me about your mum. Tell me about your background. But it is really important. We do have very limited time and I think that is one of the pressures facing or the biggest challenges facing the healthcare system in the UK at the moment is access. We've got long waiting times. We've got limited appointments. Very, very overstretched

healthcare workers. But you try your best and that's where education is power and we all in the country have to work together to be able to make sure that we're reaching those that really need it the most. Sometimes the people that need it the most are the hardest to reach. You know, generally the lower socioeconomic demographics in society where life limiting diseases are endemic. I'm from the South Wales valleys. I see it with my own eyes. The, you know, the very deprived areas where maybe there's higher unemployment, higher obesity rates, but they are the hardest demographics

to reach, let alone with solution medicine. So to try and persuade them to go down the preventative route is a huge challenge. It is, and it's what I see is one of my biggest roles as a GP. I've always worked in areas where there's a lot of deprivation, a lot of poverty, a lot of inequality. I've grown up in a working class family. I know what it feels like to go without.

We didn't have easy grown up as kids. And access to education is a huge issue. So I very much see that individually as a GP, I take every opportunity to talk to my patients. And it has to be relatable. It has to be accessible. Speaking to somebody who's living in a food desert and saying, well, eat more leafy greens,

that's just tone-deaf medicine. So you've got to speak to them and meet them where they're at and come at them with compassion and empathy and understand that it's not as easy. I think that we live in a bit of a blame culture where we think it's somebody's fault if they have a chronic lifestyle-related health problem,

but it's not always a choice it's given to people and it's a lot about chances and postcode lotteries are real. So I think that there's gosh, I mean, on a huge level if we were to talk about what the government can do, we're not going to go down that path right now, but yeah, we need to improve. have access. We need to put more investment. We need to make places of safe movement zones for folk. We need to have community wellness hubs. We need to have access to healthy food and fresh

food. But we also need to keep educating folks that a lot of things are that you can do for your health and well-being long-term is accessible. It's free, you know, simple walks, support groups. These kind of things make big improvements as well and to your long-term well-being outcomes. One of the things we've noticed at women's health is, and from speaking from other guests, is the lack of aftercare in women's when you've had your baby. So as soon as you've had your baby, I remember, you know, with mine, two days after, no, three days after an emergency section with Mia, I was sent home. But it was like a day after Tiago, you can go home now. And I was thinking, I've just been sliced open, though. I don't really feel like I should.

And I know you've spoken openly about, you know, you didn't have a difficult birth. and so you experienced being a patient on the other side, and that's kind of stemmed your passion in helping women postpartum. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. So even if I go back to early days at medical school, women's health wasn't taught as well as, say, your musculoskeletal health or your digestive health.

And I think that in general, when you're going through your pregnancy journey, if you're otherwise fit and healthy, you're just kind of led down the path that you're supposed to, you know, it's this, that bish-bosh-bash, go ahead, your baby, and off you go. But when you're met with complications, there's not enough education and support and awareness about that.

Now, I'd had, this was with my eldest, a very healthy pregnancy. But when I had him, I ended up with unexpected complications. I had a very significant bleed, which they were unable to control. That led on to, I had, gosh, at the end, heart failure, liver and lung failure.

I had sepsis and I ended up on a ventilator in intensive care. And several days in, my husband was told that I wasn't going to make it. And thankfully, at that point, we lived in London. My family were in Scotland. And he was like, look, we need to have her family here. Now, if there hadn't been that lag time for my family arriving, I might not be here today. But through some miracle, like, I did pull through.

and I had so many post-natal complications as a result. It took weeks and weeks to physically heal. But the mental and emotional toll that took on me, I was not expecting that. I didn't know how to deal with that. I found myself for the first time ever feeling the most vulnerable and terrified I've ever felt. Oh, I've been a new mum.

Oh, that's been a new mum. I was on the other side of the consultation table, and I was terrified. And I had this baby that I had wanted with all my heart. And I couldn't bond. And I had everybody around me from, like, my healthcare workers, and they were all well-meaning. But you felt like you were just being talked over and talked about and expected to just do the next thing. And it was hard.

And I actually ended up with really severe post-nasal depression. It's the darkest place I've ever been, which is difficult because it should be the happiest time of your life. And I always get really emotional talking about it. But I'll remember that at the darkest point, everyone around me was like, you need to go and see your GP. Now, coming from an Asian background, mental health is something that's even less spoken about. It's even less understood. And looking back, I recognise aunties and grandmothers that there was elements of mental health throughout our timeline and our family line, but it was just never spoken about. So I felt that seeking help on that front would make me look like a loser and a failure.

I was a medic. So medics don't really typically talk about their own mental health. And I was afraid of how this would appear to my GP. But eventually it got to a point where things would have gone down a much different, darker route if I didn't get help. But sitting there in front of my GP, which took all the courage in the world to speak up, I was in and out within seven minutes.

Now, this is no criticism to my GP. But I just sat there with this prescription for an antidepressure. present, Sertraline, and I was like, wow, like, they didn't see me. Like, they saw me, but they didn't actually see me. And I just promised at that point, I will never, ever make a patient, especially a new mum feel like this, like the postnatal care that I received. Just, it was galling, but it's what was happening in many practices and in the NHS. And it still does to this degree. We still don't have an incredible model that this sits and supports postnatal. so mums and gives them that six-week care, the babies are seen to,

but mums don't get that care, that real attention to how are you feeling? Your life is transformed. You're a different human being. Over and out, your body is going through every single change on a cellular level, but we're not going to give you a moment to talk about that. And I think that that's what's really informed and changed the kind of doctor that I am since become and I'm today that, to me, every person that's taken the courage to come in, whether it's about their mental health or something that's been niggling them or a fear that they have,

it is your duty as their GP. We've signed that oath to really make them feel that they matter, their concerns matter, that we're here for them and we're going to do everything we can to help. So I think you going through what you did, like you say, it's so relatable for your patients now because so many women go through it. If you have a very easy birth in it, every pregnancy, you're incredibly, incredibly lucky. We had a guest on and she was saying she went private in the end for a mummy MOT for a check-up because she wasn't happy with her six-week check-up.

She said she was in there, are you okay? Quick look at the scar, done, gone. And she said she wasn't okay at all. How long did it take you to feel yourself again mentally after everything you went through? Gosh, mentally. It took me a long time. I didn't appreciate the level of trauma. touchwood I'd never had any traumatic experiences in my life

but it really hits you when you go through something like that so I had the full whack and I'm always honest with my patients that are struggling and I'm like you know I've had the antidepressants I've been on them I had to go through therapy and that was painful and long but it took me I'd say the best part of three four years to truly feel like okay I've got this and but even now I think that there'll be moments if some somebody's had a traumatic birth experience or they're talking to me, I get so emotional because

it never really truly leaves you. It's quite a haunting experience when you've had that. We were told we couldn't have any more kids and gosh, too many tequila's on holiday, ended up with a blessing seven and a half years later that my little girl, but I feel pregnant with her and that was just a resurgence of that trauma. Plays on your mind, doesn't it? I can't go through it. I literally can't go through it again. We can't have this baby. And I had to go through that trauma psychology again. and thankfully there is birth trauma psychologists within the NHS. A lot of women don't know that, but they are available.

And I had to go through extensive therapy throughout my whole pregnancy in order to be able to deliver her. And that was a very different birth experience. That was a planned high-risk section. She was born two weeks after the lockdown. I don't birth very well. I was like, let's give myself a national crisis to do this in. And my husband had to socially distance.

he's a doctor. So it was like a lot of moving parts, but went on to have an absolutely beautiful birth. It was such a healing experience. And I think for me at that moment, I thought, okay, it wasn't me that was the problem. It just was one of those freak things that happens. And a lot of women that go through birth trauma

or have had any form of trauma when it comes to their body, they think, well, I'll just never be able to go there again. A lot of women never go for surgical experience. examinations, they won't turn up for gynaecological procedures, they miss their smears, they'll never have another baby again. So I think if there is someone that's listening to this that's had a traumatic birth experience and things, I'll never be able to have another child again. There is a way. And for me, what I learned firsthand was that no two experiences will ever be the same and you can heal from it and I have healed. And as a result, we didn't bond my son

and I for the first little bit, he is the best, most precious thing. And we have a relationship that's closer than ever. And yeah, like it is possible to heal, but you need, you just need that support in place. But the first step is really actually just go and help. And even if it's not met with the kind of help you initially wanted, I had family around me. I had a village to lean on. My husband was amazing.

And I accepted that getting therapy doesn't mean you're a failure, taking. taking antidepressants doesn't mean you're going to be on them forever but for the short term it helps you and it gets you to the other side and there's so much joy to be had on the other side of that it's so true when he said it affects your second pregnancy I had a postpartum haemorrhage with Mia and she was an emergency section and it was touch and go with us for a second and at the time I was going through it thinking oh my gosh

this is I don't know what's going to happen this is awful and I walk up in a different unit in a high dependency ward with this lovely nurse and Mia was next to me and Gorka wasn't around. He'd gone to get some small baby clothes because Mia was, she didn't fit in the clothes. She was so small. But when he came back, he looked ill himself and I said to him, are you okay? And he said, no. He said, I thought you were going.

And then you think, for the partner as well, I mean, for your husband to be faced with, I have this beautiful baby who my wife, who I love to bits, has brought into the world. she might be exiting. Like it must be so hard for the partners. How did your husband cope? He only told me much, much later, I mean years later, how hard he found it because he was just trying to get me through it. And we had this baby who had severe reflux.

It was just a hard time. But he at the time, he was a surgeon. He was an orthopedic surgeon, so he was used to lots of blood splatter and all that stuff. But he was like, Poonam, I was just left in this room that was just covered in blood with his newborn. And the next minute, I'm looking at you and I was just like, please call him Arish.

I just was like, please name my child Arish. I don't know what's happening, but call him Arish. And he was like, it was just the most traumatic thing. And I thought you were gone. And I think in intensive care, he was with another dad and whose wife was also like on a ventilator. She'd had twins. And they kind of really bonded at that point,

because there was two dads left with these babies with their wives just in a critical state. But nobody's checking in on them. And they're like, I don't know what to do. I've got this teeny tiny person. I've got to feed this child. I know she wanted to breastfeed, but am I going to upset her if she comes back around? And I've had to give her a bottle and all these questions, but nobody actually checks in on them. And it was, yeah, just years later, it was like, I found that really hard.

And the second time round, I think it was just like, gosh, please be okay. but we didn't even know until like half an hour before Elora was born, whether he was going to be allowed at the birth or not. He was like, I'm definitely never having another child again. Yeah, and with your second, I remember with Tiago, after the C-section, I called the nurse, she must have been so annoyed at me. I kept pressing the button, she'd come in, I'd say, can you just check?

Am I bleeding? Is everything okay? And at the end, she said, Gemma, you are fine. You need to stop. But I couldn't get it out of my head. I was like, how can I be fine last time? I'm nearly bled to death. Surely it's going to happen again. It does take the joy away from it.

But like you say, there is help in the NHS. I didn't know that until you said that, but it's brilliant to know. I think it's asking. And sometimes if you don't get the person that's responding in the way you should, then I feel like women especially are not empowered enough

to go, I'll ask for a second opinion. So we just tend to go, it's okay, I'm so sorry. But just don't. If you've been dismissed, just ask, look, could I please see somebody else? Because you do it with your kids. Well, you do. You always ask with your kids.

I'm asking, are you sure? Is it this? Is it that? But when it's you, you go, okay, thanks. Yeah, I'm so sorry to take up your time. Yeah, it's bizarre. I always get that. I never get that from any men that come and see me.

But for women, I'll be like, I'm so sorry. I'm really embarrassed. Would it be okay if? And you're like, of course. Like, please just feel comfortable. It's probably nothing. It's probably nothing, but it's important. You know, they go for an examination.

They're like, oh, I'm sorry. so sorry. This is probably the worst thing you're having to see today. And I'm like, absolutely not. Please don't. But equally, if you've been dismissed, let's say, so, you know, could I get a second opinion? I feel like I didn't really get the answer I wanted. I've done a bit of research. Please, could I see somebody else? We're not going to be offended. Your doctors aren't sitting there discussing every patient that they've seen. And they won't know either. So just ask for a second opinion from a nurse or can I see somebody else. But it is. is, it's a shame. I think that there needs to be a lot more compassion when it comes to seeing

women and there's a big gap when it comes to that within women's health. Some of you may not be aware, but I'm also the editor-in-chief of Men's Health UK. So if you are enjoying this podcast, which my team at Women's Health have put together, please do go and check out Men's Health's podcast hosted by Fitness Director Andrew Tracy. He delves deep into the science of physical and mental well-being. With inspiring guests and world-leading experts, it's well worth a listen. So please go and check it out. It's the matcha or the three ensemble Ciceroa of the fact that I just

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It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great. What's the most common complaint that you hear from women in your practice? Is it frustration about the NHS and about the care that they can access? Gosh, right now, the most commonest questions that I'm. I get from women is around perimenopause. Women are craving clarity about their changing bodies

and want access to care that makes sense to them in the context of their realities. So perimenopause for women is the big one. Other ones that I hear is feeling tired all the time. Fatigue, overwhelm, mental health. I think that there is a lot of burnout amongst women in general, especially amongst mothers. There's just society's moving at a really fast pace. Lifestyles are fast pace. You're juggling a lot of plates. Women are very good at multitasking.

They're also very good at putting themselves at the bottom of their to-do pile. And what happens is over time, they ignore it, ignore it, ignore it, and it ends up that inflammation on a very cellular level builds up, that stress, those high levels of cortisol, stress hormones. It all builds up. and especially at the time of perimenopause, you've got children that are perhaps growing older. I describe perimenopause almost now that I'm entering that era myself

as it's like going through puberty but with a mortgage. It's intense. And then you've got parents that are aging, you've got relatives around you, you might be reaching the pinnacle of your career and you're working really hard. It's a lot. And so if you go in and you speak to your doctor

and you're like, you know what, I'm just struggling and you are dismissed, which happens a lot. and you're just fobbed off. You think, well, what's the point? Am I going crazy? Am I demented? No, you're not. Your body is changing.

It's hard. And you've got all these variables happening simultaneously. You need to be taken seriously. And for every woman, there's different options, there's different management plans, but that it all starts with just being heard and feeling like, somebody says, it's not all in my head.

It's not all just, you know, I'm not all making it up. And I think that that, therefore, is the biggest question, the most common thing that I see in my clinic. And, yeah, I really feel for women. Because once you've just perfectly described my life. My too. And we do put ourselves at the bottom of the pile. So to even find time to go to the GP is nigh on impossible.

So by the time they've come to you, they really are in crisis. Because our default is to suck it up and just get on with it and do everything that needs to be done. Like, for instance, I'm sat here recording these episodes today while receiving calls from my nine-year-old asking me where the cricket kit is because she's going cricket chain. Genuinely, there was a guest sat there on it. Yeah.

And we're all so frazzled. So to even find the time to come to the GP, at that point, they really are in, in Christ. I've probably let things get more out of control than they needed to be if they'd sought out sooner. Yeah, exactly that. And I think that if in that moment, as the clinician or the healthcare worker, you have just dismissed it. You've really missed an important moment in that woman's timeline to help her, to support her.

Like, our bodies are constantly whispering to us. We're always that little niggle here, there. the way we're feeling but we ignore it because we just got to get on with him. I do the same. I'm in my clinic and you know you're in between patients and I'll have messages, emails from school or the mum's WhatsApp group and you're kind of just think, oh gosh, I forgot to fill that form out. I need to do that, quickly do it. You know, and my husband's amazing, but he just doesn't have that multitasking brain that I seem to have and he doesn't let that overwhelm get to him in the way that by the end of the day my nervous

system literally feels like it's been fried. So yes, I think when women come in and when I went in to see my doctor, it was so much that I had to consider before I sat there and was like, help. Yeah. And it just felt like, wow, where do I go from here? And your doctor is your safe person. You know, I hear so many stories every single day that people have confided in me with. And there's stories that I'll never share with anyone. You carry them. And I think being a GP is a real privilege. It's such an honour. And I don't think there's a job out there where you can really carry that many secrets in a safe space where people can trust you. So you owe it to them. And I think if you ever get to a point where you feel that actually I'm done, I can't do that anymore,

you've got a question, is this still the job for you? But yeah, I'm really passionate about making sure that every woman that comes to see me, especially when it's a mother, that I'm there just to go, anything else? Don't worry. If you've got 10 things, don't worry. I'm not going to make you come back. Just let's go through it because I know that time is limited. You've got so many things to do. There's a lot you've got to juggle. Let's just get through it because if I don't, we might miss something today that will matter in 10 years time and I don't want to do that. And we are very much part of the prevention as everything else that you'll be doing for yourself. Because women generally take longer to get diagnosed with conditions. We spoke to another guest who has very, very extreme endometriosis. How she was describing it was actually quite shocking the level of pain that she says that she has to deal with.

But it took her 20 years, did you say, to get diagnosed, even though this pain started when she started having periods. And she said she started bleeding at 10. And it took, I don't want to miss quote her, but it took her decades to get, to get diagnosed. She was told it was just, when you're on a period, it's painful. Yeah. That was it. That's that, what you expect kind of thing. And there's been research, isn't there?

And studies done that it takes women a lot longer to convince the medical profession that their pain is real. And it's not in their head. It's not mental health. They're not being emotional. It's not histrionics. You know, it's genuine pain. And why is that? Because because the research into the female body is far, far inferior to that has been done on men. Yeah, absolutely. When it comes to things like, as you say, chronic pain, hormones, mental health, fatigue, women are dismissed.

And historically, if we even look at times where medical research has been done, trials have been carried out. it's always been done on males. And forever, women have just accepted that when it comes to treatment, investigations, all those biomarkers, that we just accept that that's the same for us when actually our bodies are wildly different to male bodies. And it's only now that times are changing where we're getting more research trials and more medications coming out that are tailored for women's bodies. But we've also just as a society been taught to accept that it's all in our head. You know, it's a shame because a lot of conditions too, symptoms can be quite non-specific

when it comes to periods, when it comes to abdominal pain, when it comes to fatigue, perimenopause. Symptoms can overlap other conditions. And so therefore, women are tended to be thought, well, it could just be depression. Oh, it's just because you're busy. It's because you're overwhelmed. Just get home with it. When actually we need to take the time to really listen. I always say to women, always track your symptoms.

whatever is happening, track it, write it down, find the pattern, take that into your doctor. That is a tool that we can use to basically guide the management that we're going to have. Just yesterday, actually, I was in a coffee shop and just waiting for my coffee and this woman passed out. So everyone rushed to her. Like, she was fine. She fainted. And the first thing she said, it's just when I get my period, I always faint. and I just

I was like I'm so sorry if you had help for that she's like no it's just I get heavy periods and I've been told this is just normal for me I was like this is not normal but the fact that somebody's done that she must have been in her late 20s she's passed out in a public place because that's what always happens

when she's on her period she'll just faint and she gets on with it so every four weeks yeah I was like this is not normal you have to go and speak to your doctor yeah had she done that you say she had done and being brushed off awful. I didn't go into that. I was just like, this is not normal. She was like, well, I thought

this was. I was like, please promise me, you will go speak to your doctor. This is not normal. But we have been told that if you have really heavy periods, that's normal. If you were having to regularly miss school, miss work, have days where you're just in bed and you're having to change your pads and tampons frequently, that is not normal. So you have to speak to a doctor about it and let us investigate. That's why people, women have lived with conditions like endometriosis, it's PCOS, adenomyosis, which is even lesser known in the public than endometriosis. They've just lived with these for decades that has affected their fertility later on in life. And at that point, trying to go backwards to investigate, to get the diagnosis, to get the management,

we've really, we've not done the right thing by that woman. And really, we're accountable to that. Running is booming. And the Runner's World UK podcast is the authority. for inspiring, trustworthy running advice. So if you're planning on running a marathon or you're just doing it for fun, check out the Runners World UK podcast available every Tuesday.

I wanted to move on to your children's books because they're brilliant in terms of medical advice for kids as well. But before we do, if you could wave your wand and have three things to change in public health, what would they be the top three things for you? The first would be making sure that there's free, nutritious, healthy foods. provided to every child across every school in the UK. I think that's a basic.

The second would be to improve access and have more campaigns and awareness around women's health that is not just in clinics, but it's coming from healthcare professionals across the board. And the third would be to create accessible community wellness hubs where you can go in, you've got access to fresh food, you've got safe places to move, you've got support groups, education from mental health,

and that social connection which is so needed, but that must be accessible to everybody. I like the idea of a wellness hub. If you could go down and speak to other people with similar situations or conditions whilst having a nice cup of coffee, slice of cake or doing a bit of yoga together. I know.

You just feel, because it's also with new mums, I was extremely lucky that my mum moved in with me because Gorka was away, and it literally took a village. But for some mums, it's the loneliest time because the dad goes back to work, you're at home with your baby, especially if, you know, people were having kids in lockdown or the winter babies when you can't get out as much, there's not as much sunlight. So it is a lonely time for so many new mums.

Yeah, we are social beings and it's human connection that is at the root of all healthy relationships and your well-being. And I've grown up in an Indian family. You know, I grew up in a wee tenement flat in Glasgow with 12 people. Like I had my granny, my granddad, my uncles, my cousins. We're all lived under one roof. But what came with that was just so much support. Everyone was together. And there's a lot of, especially in some cultures like the Indian culture,

where that postnatal care is about protecting that women over the six weeks and making sure she's given all the good foods and to help her heal. But we don't, that knowledge isn't extended out. Or it's often seen as a weakness or a sense of failure. if a woman's needing help, but it's not easy to just be given a new human to look after, all whilst you are absolutely exhausted. Like we say, the things that help you feel better, live better, live longer are having good food and healthy food, getting lots of sleep, having no stress, making sure you're exercising. Here you've come after having a baby. You're absolutely broken,

you're drained, you're no time to eat for yourself. You're supposed to nap when the baby naps, but you've got all your chores to do. So you're totally exhausted. Stress levels are through the roof. And then you've got this little thing that you've got to keep alive that's crying. And I mean, how are we supposed to heal? How are we supposed to do that alone?

It's ridiculous that we've been taught to believe it's okay just to do that on your own. And we live now in a culture where a lot of people don't live near their families. You know, I had my children away from South Wales. I moved to London when I was 18. So societally, a lot of women don't have that family support that you culturally did and you very fortunately did. But that's not the norm these days.

It's such a shame. It's about, I think, finding your tribe, the kind of mum's that speak to you and not falling into the trap of comparing yourself with mothers online and social media, which can put a lot of unrealistic pressures and expectations on you and accepting that the whole of your mum. motherhood journey from now on is going to be very complex. There's always going to be multiple balls that you're going to be juggling. My goodness, like every day I, you know, there's a lot of balls that you're constantly juggling. And what I've learned over time is accepting that some of them, you know, are made of glass and we're shatter and that's okay. But a lot of them are made of rubber and they'll bounce back when I want to pick the back up.

And as long as you've got some of your priorities in check and certainly for me, that is the well-being of my children, my family, my health. And everything else, else like that's the order it should be in. And I try really hard to do that. Some days I win at that. Most days I don't on the days that you're frazzled. You accept that five minutes of a time out with a cup of tea is great. So we walk around the corners, okay, having a cry.

I cry a lot. I love crying. Just getting it out the system. I love crying. I feel like it's the best detox. I'm like, my body is cleansing itself. But, you know, you just got to do what you're going to do. But when you've got people around you,

even if it's just that one friend or your partner or a relative, that just gets you that you can pick up the phone and say, help, can you just make me a wee meal? I'm struggling tonight. Just go easy on yourself. But the whole your motherhood journey is going to be full of ups and downs. And then when we enter the perimenopause era, I had my son the other day. He's turned 12 and they were getting their kind of puberty chats at school. So I thought I was so prepared for this.

But he came home and he's like, Mommy, I am puberting. Oh, no. And I was like, oh, what do you mean you're pubertizing? who is like my teacher says that I'm now going to start experiencing lots of emotions and one minute I'm going to be, I don't know why he sounds like this but he's like one minute I'll be really angry

the next minute I'll be really happy then I'll be really joyful and I was like alright I was expecting a whole other kind of puberty chat that was coming my way but I was like we can deal with this and I went well honey I'm perimenopauseing and he was like what does that mean I was like it's basically all your emotions that you're experiencing mummy's going through them too

and my husband was like okay me and a lower I'm moving out. Leave you both to it. But it is. You look forward to here. But it is. You know, when you just think, oh, here we go. A whole other shift is coming our way. But we adapt and we're good at adapting and we're good at getting on with it.

But I think along the way we've just got to be kind to ourselves and say, well, okay, I do need a little bit of support along the way. And that's okay. Because you are, you all right, the parenting manor palsy is clashing with, I've got a 13-year-old, clashing with the teenage years. Oh, it's like, what has biology done to us? You know, it's. Puberty with a mortgage. See, I've missed that. Puberty with a mortgage.

Because I'm 41 this year, but I've got a six-year-old and a two-year-old. So I'll be going through the teenage years when I want to rest. When I ain't got the time for it. Similar time to what? Because I'm 47. She'll be like with Tiago. She'll be a similar age. Oh, yeah.

And I know it's hard. So with Tiago, he'll be what? He'll be 12, 13. He'll be doing all kinds of stuff. Yeah. It's quite funny in our house. I just have to have. to laugh at it because if you take it too seriously, you're all going to end up shouting your heads off. So when the doors start slamming and they're stomping up the stairs and all that, you've just got to

laugh at it. It's learning to just protect the boundaries in every way, isn't it? Because like sometimes, for example, the rage is a real symptom and you're just like, oh, you just want to be like, come back here. But you equally, they're managing their emotions, you're managing yours. And learning out, maybe I don't know one of my friends was saying that she does time out for herself now she's a few years into her perimenopause journey and she's like I just do time out I'm like mommy needs to go regulate herself so she's just going to go out for five minutes I love it once upon a time we're doing time out with toddlers but it's good you know I think it's important having these like meetings with yourself and being able to just have a safe space for your own mental and emotional health but also staying to your family and being open about it that I'm also experiencing a lot of emotions right now and speaking to your doctor

but it's really becoming unmanageable. Yeah. For anyone who can't get into a clinic or doesn't live near your clinic, you post a lot on your social media videos, don't you, about everything we've spoken about. You know, I've followed clinical.

She's regularly doing like a post on perimenopause or a post on heart disease risk. So people can check you out there as well. And you've also wrote books for children. What inspired you to write children's books? Because they're brilliant. You sent me the other one with the heart and she took it into school. She loved it.

And this latest one is teaching first aid to children. Yes. Well, really writing children's medical books particularly is that when I was growing up, I didn't have role models within my culture from my background, write medical books or have a career in medicine that looked like the one that I've got now. So really for children that come from diverse, especially diverse or underrepresented backgrounds, I want them to see themselves in these books

and appreciate that actually absolutely they can forge careers within healthcare, whether that be a doctor or any other healthcare professional background they can do. I just want children to really own their bodies from the very early stages and to love their bodies and genuinely believe and looking after them as being the single most important investment

they'll ever make. Often that comes to us as a reactive thing later on in life. But from the very beginning, they're just loving who they are and what they're made of. Then that's a job well done. My next book, which is Superheroes First Aid Manual, was inspired by a tragic instant with my grandfather. When I was about 9 or 10, my grandfather,

I used to visit him every day after school. And this one day I'd come in, and he just didn't look right to me. So he told me to go home, which he would never do. He was just like, just go home, I need to go to bed. And I did say to my mum when I got home and she checked in on him, but later that night, he passed away. He had a major heart attack. I think for months and months after that, I really wondered, was there something that I did? You know, in your child's mind, you don't know, but was it something I did?

Did I miss something? Would you have been okay if I'd done something differently? And throughout medical training, that stayed with me. And now that I've got my own kids, I know that I'm very protective over that they know what to do. if granny and granddad doesn't look well, if granny ever fell down the stairs what to do, they've got friends with allergies, if somebody was to fall, that first aid is like a basic life skill and children are often the first at the scene for medical emergencies and can do so much in that moment that can save a life. So with that in mind, this book was just, I've dreamt about

it for forever and I was like, I want a book that children can look at and really know what to do in those urgent medical scenarios. And superhero's first aid manual was born. And I I do believe that this will go on to save people's lives. It needs to be in schools. And it's the 7th of August, isn't it? That we can get it. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for joining us.

It's been lovely. We say it to all the guests, but we learn so much, don't we? Genuinely. We have a tradition, though, before we let our guests go. Claire has some quick-fire questions, but I'll let you do the quick-fire round first. So Gemma and I are coming up to Scotland to do Keeley dancing, which you know I love.

But actually, we're coming to your... house for dinner. So what are you going to cook us? Oh, are you both meat eaters? Gemmer isn't. Okay. But you will eat a bit of fish, won't you? Yeah, I'll eat a bit of fish. I was going to say a tunduri something. So if not tunduri chicken, I can make a lovely tunduri vegetable and fish dish served up with some pecoras, a lovely Indian salad that's inspired by my mum. It's gorgeous. So yeah, I'll definitely have to give you that. But because you're coming to Scotland, the pecoras will be haggis pecoras. I guess.

Lovely. Not too sure about that, but I'll give her a go. You go into a desert island for an entire year and you can only take one thing. What is it? Ooh. It would need to be, oh God, the biggest bottle of tobacco I can find because I feel a bit of chili sauce and everything.

It just makes everything okay. I love spice. Yeah, it's practical. That's practical. It's a good answer, yeah. What is the last thing that made you belly laugh? The last thing that made me belly laugh. Okay, my mother-in-law is going to kill me with this.

But just last night, she let a big fart. She's going to kill me. I hope she doesn't listen to this. But my five-year-old giggled so hard that she just started snorting, which she's never done before. So we were all in just hysterics. It was just that kind of innocent belly laugh that you only get when somebody farts like that.

She's going to kill me. Brilliant. I love that. I love a good fart. Good for her. Coffee or wine for the rest of your life? You can only choose one. Coffee.

Coffee. We went with coffee, didn't we? We went with coffee. A lot of people said coffee, haven't they? Yeah. And then finally, if there's one thing that the listeners today could do today to feel better about themselves, what would it be? Give yourself a big hug. Oh, nice.

I'm a big self-hugger and let yourself know that you're doing a great job. Hugging a mug. That's what it was called. I was a hug in a mug. Another of Poonam's recipes. Telling you, check the Instagram page out. There's so many hugs and mugs and really lovely recipes on there. Thank you. Oh, Poonam, thank you so much. You've travelled a long way from Glasgow all the way to London, so thank you. And yeah, look forward to listening. Oh, thank you. Thank you.