Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - ‘I Won’t Pass This On to My Daughter’: Oti Mabuse on Body Dysmorphia, Motherhood and Owning Her Voice

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

This episode has it all: dancing in the kitchen, spicy food, and a toddler who might already be smarter than us. We’re talking love, laughter, motherhood, and why South African wine definitely belongs on a desert island. From belly laughs over bedtime battles to what we’d take to survive 12 months in total isolation (spoiler: it’s not the kids), this is your feel-good escape. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And I'm Claire Sanderson, the editor-in-chief of Women's Health UK. We just had a lovely catch-up with the one-and-only, O.T. Mabuse. She joined us here on this couch. And she had a lovely chat about her career, about motherhood, about her body issues when she was a dancer. And seemingly, she looked the best for everyone else. Internally, she was having a real battle. And she went into great detail about her relationship with food, how women from Salern. Africa where she was from were celebrated for curves, but in dance they were celebrated for being

tiny. It was a really interesting chat, wasn't it? Fascinating. So I love Otee. She is genuinely one of the most positive, lovely people you could meet. She's such a good company. And it was really interesting hearing her talk about how her upbringing in South Africa were currier women are celebrated and how she came from that upbringing into the world of ballroom dancing, which in Europe, so she was, it was unusual for a South African woman to be dancing in Europe professionally where her beautiful curves made her feel so much bigger than everyone else. She was called to shrink, wasn't she? And she told us that even during her strictly days when, and she looks gorgeous now, she looks

gorgeous then, she is a gorgeous woman, but there were certain outfits she refused to wear because she felt so self-conscious as she never had her eight in strictly. Because she wouldn't have her back on show because she felt she had a fat back and she wouldn't have her belly on show. Oh, is that high waist? Yeah. And she was a size 8.

Eight. And I... It's frightening. I think back, I've watched every season of Strictly since it started and I just remember her as being this goddess. Yeah. Absolutely sexy, gorgeous. She's been on the cover of woman's self twice

doing her time, but, interestingly, and I would never have realised the inner turmoil that she was going through at that time. I talk from this episode, it just shows, despite what a person looks like, you never really know what they're dealing with at home or at work internally. It's a really, really good listen.

So we hope you enjoy it. And as ever, please do like us. Please do subscribe to us. The more listeners we get, the more incredible guests we can get for you. So share this far and wide and enjoy our chat with Oti Mabusi. Today's guest,

dancing and competing at the tiny age of just full and by 23 she was a full-time professional she joined strictly come dancing in 2015 and became the first female professional to win the glitter ball back to back with Kelvin Fletcher and then Bill Bailey she left a show in 2022 but has since been a household name she was a judge on dancing on ice a dance captain on the greatest dancer she's also an author a mum and soon to be judge on strictly come dancing in island so she basically just never stopped. It's old Timibusi. Oh, I love that.

That was nice. Thank you, Gemma. Welcome. Thank you for coming because I know how genuinely busy you are. But I genuinely also wanted to be here. So honestly, thank you for both having me here. Because you've done, old she's done, you've done women's health, didn't you? Yes.

I loved it. I loved it. I felt all strait. I remember the first one because it was also a cover in South Africa. And it was just so nice because it was like the first big. cover shoot that I've ever done and a lot of people got it but the response from home was

amazing and I think that even though here it was great but to see people from home and my mom and my dad my dad had like to come in the office my dad is a judge and they were like why are you carrying a woman's health and he's like that's my daughter do you see that that's my daughter so it made me really proud so thank you

it was the year you won strictly with Bill Belia was it or Calvin I think it was Calvin Calvin so at just one and And then that happened. And then lockdown happened, remember? And then we came back and we did the second one. And one again.

Yeah, and I did again. Yeah. How do you, obviously, you did Strictly. You loved Strictly. Yeah. I remember, I was saying to Claire, when I joined Strictly, every single person on there in my year, you would used to walk in the room and everyone used to go.

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and I'm so loud. No, no. It was that as well, but in a good way. But everyone was like, oh my God. And everyone was like, how can we have a body like O-T? How can we look like O-T? And it's only recently that I found out, you've discussed now recently how at that time

you didn't feel as good as you look to everyone else, which we had no idea. I think especially as a dancer, our relationship with our bodies is just, just so toxic. It is the most toxic. I think out of all sports, if we consider dance or sports, it's the, it's the one where you're just simply never good enough. You're never thin enough. You're never tight enough. You're never lean enough. And even if you look that way, there's always someone who looks completely different who will make you feel

like you're not enough. But that's because of your own internal insecurity. My own internal conversations, my upbringing, and every time I was on strict, I would just always felt like, I was the size eight, right? But I always felt like I was the plus size dancer. I always felt like I was representing the plus size. And I said it in an interview and I was like, you know, I'm curvy, I'm big, I'm quite heavy. And I think it was a interview maybe with Hannah Hope. And she was like, what size are you? I'm like an eight. And she went, girl, that is not plus size. Yeah, and I was like, yeah, but in my head, that's how bad my relationship with my body was. That was overweight, and I just never felt comfortable.

That's why you never saw me in a two-piece. If it was, it was always like above my, yeah, high-wasted. You never saw me open back because I was like, no, we're not showing. I never had roles, but in my head I did. In my head, my body dysmorphia was so intense that I just, what I looked like and what I thought I looked like were completely too. different people. You've discussed openly that you had a semblance of disorder eating at the time because you were under-eating, do you try and be, try and take as little space as you possibly can because you were at war with your own body, your naturally beautiful, curvaceous body.

It was intense. I think it wasn't just the eating. It was like the jimming where you're over-jimming and you're really like exhausting yourself. I used to, I remember two rehearsals. I don't know if you remember you see where these sawn out pants like it was a suit yeah and these son of suit they always say we're here OTV4 we see her because the pants are going because I was just constantly trying to

sweat everything out and you do little things like being on cabbage dyes being on a beetroot die being on an apple diet where that's the only thing that you eat just to make yourself small and small and you're doing all the training as well like the dancing on top of that

on top of that I mean we spoke to Gawker, we had an episode of Gawker, and he said even now, some of the female dancers who look incredible, still don't feel, you know, I mean, there is kind of a switch now in that. A few of them have started doing the strength training and the functional training to become stronger,

to have a body for longevity as opposed to just how we look. And I think, you know, we met before any of us had kids and my approach was a lot different then, you know, on the tour, it was like, whereas now I always think what I'm doing is ultimately going to impact my kids.

So I want to be here for as long as possible, but I also want to set them an example of, you can have your pizza, it's fine. We can go for a run as well. You can do both. Is that something that you kind of, that's on your mind as well, that you're a more model for your daughter?

100%. And she's such a copy kid and she is just watching every little thing that I do. And in a way, I wasn't really aware, and I just became aware where you know when you're watching and you're watching television and then they start copying you so i love to stretch i like to stretch in front of the television i'm always like trying to loosen up my hips and she did the exact same stretches that i would do if i would do push-ups and i'm like

maris let's teach me how to do a push-up she then two days later would do that and also conversations that i would have even on the phone where i'm like oh my gosh i just don't feel my best and i'll look at my thigh she'll start touching her thighs and start holding her thighs and start holding her stomach and doing that. So that completely changed my whole perspective on fitness, on how long I want to be here. When I was pregnant, I had distational diabetes. So I had to go through a whole learning curve of what that was because I didn't even know what it was. And it was just me now after having my daughter, using every opportunity to have the right conversations around her, really work out and know that I'm saying, look, I know you want to be with me, but

Mama's going to gym and gym is actually good for me because when I come back, I feel energetic. I feel happy. I've got that rush of emotions and I have the concentration and energy to spend time with her and play. So she's kind of now she's like, Mama go to gym and then we play. So it's like a thing and dancing. Dancing is a huge thing in my house and we dance in the kitchen, we dance outside, we dance in the living room.

And when I'm upset, she goes, Mama, it's okay. Let's let's dance. And we just dance. So it's really important. And I can't be positive all the time But it's really important that she See sometimes when I'm down That I really am down

But that the tools that I use to pick myself up Because I'm hoping that she's going to feel the same way And use them Fitness is a great way to change your mood How are you feeling Dancing is something else That gets your body moving stretching It's so good

That meditation that comes with it And I'm hoping later on I'm starting young That she'll use those tools for her Gemma and I grew up in the UK but you grew up in South Africa where you had a different culture to us out So what was the representation, the example you were set when you were younger around body image in Africa?

Not Africa, South Africa, I'm saying South Africa is so different, especially in my family. We have that kind of family where everyone is curvy but it is normal to call someone fat. Do you know what I mean? So they'll see my daughter and be like, what is she eating? My God, what is in your milk? All the inappropriate comments that like in the UK

You'd be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you said that. I can't believe people still talk about it. People just say it. They just say, look at your baby's bum. Look at your baby's arms. Look at your baby's stomach. Genuinely, it's such a normal conversation. With my family, we're at that point where, even with my husband, we have to teach them that language and say, Mom, that's not okay.

We don't want her to hear that conversation. We don't want her to have those insecurities. So please don't talk about her body. Please don't talk about the things that you see. So we need to set those boundaries with our parents. And it's been so incredible because we could see, just from having that conversation, my mom's way of talking, she doesn't talk like that anymore. She doesn't bring that language to, even if she's thinking it,

because you know, your mom is thinking something. I'm like, don't you dare say it. She's completely changed. And I think my relationship with my daughter changed as well. But the examples that we had growing up, South African women are really. curvy, you know, we've got big boobs. Like, my boobs here are like a double G, whereas in South Dakota, I'm a D. So it's so normal.

It's completely normal. Not having a flat stomach, completely normal. Oh, my friends, all of us, we were curvy. And it was something that people don't even comment about your body. It's not, like, in the press or the celebrities. It's never like, oh, look at her or her body. Just everyone is just so curvy. And it's normal.

So it's not celebrated. Not that it's not celebrated. It's just not a topic of discussion. It's over there it is. Yeah, over here it is. It's like, oh, look at her showing of her abs. Or look at her showing of her, you know, her back or whatever. It's just not even something that's brought up because everyone is beautiful.

Whichever shape or size. We get really thin, popular models. We're all presenters or celebs. We get really curvy ones. We get plus size ones. We get really, really skinny. It's just never discussed because it's like, yeah, that's normal. Over here they put like, were they used to, remember they used to put like a red circle on a magazine and like an arrow to the cellulite.

No. They'd like put pictures of you on the beach. And if you were like sat leaning to pick something up and you dared had skin or a belly roll, they'd put a red circle around it. I remember seeing it was Victoria Beckham. Porky posh. Because she'd just had Brooklyn, like literally, two, three months post baby and she's picking some porky posh. And then like further down the line when she's since admitted she had an eating disorder because of that, it was. was skeletal spice.

You couldn't ever win. No, you're either a pokeyposh or skeletal spice. I think for me that was the biggest culture shock in terms of being in the public eye. Because growing up, I always used to see our South African celebs. And I think that's what makes a lot of women just so confident as well. The fact that those conversations are not had because their parties are just so curvy and normal. Whereas here then you start to go, oh,

is that what I'm supposed to look like? It's too skinny too much. It's too thick. Like, I just get the feeling that there's just never the perfect body. They probably've got their own insecurities. Or they're in the gym all the time. Or they're doing something to maintain this. Somebody said, I have a perfect body.

Now I need to maintain that. So the inner conflict that you must have been going through to have been brought up in that culture, to go into the world of professional ballroom dancing, which is very white. Yes. Well, but at that time, I'm sure. And not very much, yeah.

Very slim. All the women are extremely slim and even smaller in real life when you meet them. When I meet some of the professional dancers who I'm seeing on TV in real life, I think goodness me, you are smaller than... Yeah, TV makes you look bigger, doesn't it? It makes you look taller and bigger. Yeah. How did you cope with that?

I think there's no way to cope, really. And I don't think I coped with it. And I think there's where all my, I would say, early body dysmorphia started and I don't think there's a way to say that I got over it if I'm being honest with you because you're right the world it is

very white it's very lean it's very small bodies it's very flat no boobs no bum no stomachs no thighs no none of that and so we I would say as dancers try to conform to that and we try to be that as well because you want to fit in right you want to win you want you want to go to international

competitions and still be good but also look the part because you want to look like a dancer and the idea of what a dancer looks like is already there and I and I won't say that I was able to cope with it but I think now now that I'm not competing professionally I'm able to deal with the fact that that was crazy that was a crazy time it was a crazy upbringing I see my daughter and we thought we were going to take her to dance classes and I had like a meltdown because I was like I don't know if I could have her live the same life. That's what Brooke said about me.

Yeah, I just don't know whether she's got like calves and she's really strong, but she loves to dance and I don't know. Maybe it's not Latin and Borum first. Maybe it's not ballet first. Maybe it's hip-hop. Maybe it's contemporary. Maybe it's gymnastics first. Before I put her in a world where that culture is normal.

Yeah, I said she wanted to do ballet. I say she wanted to do ballet. She always mentioned ballet. And Gawker said to me privately, no. She don't do ballet, no. He said, it's too strict. No. And I said, well, what do we do then? And we found it. It's just at a local school, the dance class. And it's like a freestyle boombox, it's called. And it's just fun. And they just do like exercises, star jumps. They do a routine. They did a Christmas show. But it's like step, clap, clap. And it's brilliant. And it's not one specific style. It's just. just moving the bodies to music, learning routines, and then if she wants to carry on, she can. But he said straight away with ballet, no, he wouldn't do that to her. Because it's too strict. It's too strict. It's too disciplined. And anything outside of that is considered,

you're just not good enough to keep up. So you go, but that's not normal. They go, no, no, no, no. It takes a certain person to be able to live their life and those are the people who succeed. And I'm like, I don't think I want that for my daughter. There'll be pressure on her as well anyway. I mean, Mia's got the scapego and Tiago.

If people expect them to be a great dancer, I'm like, hang on a minute. A mom. Half gem, right? 50% of them is a professional Spanish champion. You learn a dance. Did you win it? No. No.

You learn a dance. You learn a dance vaccine. Yeah. But you learn a routine. You don't learn to dance. Oh, I think you're putting yourself down. Fuginian and tonics, I can twerk in a club occasionally. But that's their scapego.

It's like, she could have. always be like, I have two left feet like mum. You, the entire family. Yeah, her auntie, her uncle. All aunties. So she's got that pressure anyway. That's why we don't want her to dance. But the thing is, I don't want it because I don't want that insecurity, but then I don't

want to put my insecurities onto her. She might dance and just have the best time. Just enjoy it. And just enjoy it. And my niece, Mutsi's daughter dances and she does hip-hop and she loves it. And I feel like hip-up is a lot less body-focused. You're in the baggy clothes, aren't they? You're not baggy clothes.

You can show your stomach, but then it's like high-waisted. It's cool to just, like, not even hide, but that's the kind of a look. Or if you're being swanky, you wear a suit or, you know what I mean? It's not like shorts and tight. So I feel like maybe it's a different style of dance. But again, it's that conversation where I don't want her to have all my insecurities. And I don't want to put that on her. that cloud of okay mom doesn't want this because of this and this if she likes it and she's good

at it got to support yeah got to support it and she's little now she's almost too yeah once she can properly tell you what she wants and if she wants to dance she'll tell you anyway exactly she's starting gymnastics next week that's good starting baby gymnastics because she's literally banging her head all the time trying to do a cop wheel so we're like let's just take her somewhere where she will learn to do this properly so I think she'll stop there And I know that that base, I would prefer that gymnastics base to a ballet base. Yeah. And then if she wants the more discipline, we'll go ballet.

But we're going to start her first being wild and free and running and just tumbling everywhere. I sat next to a coach, a tennis coach, a very, an international tennis coach at a lunch once. And they said, before you put your child into any sport, put them into gymnastics. Yes. They said, it is the core of everything. That is it. balance your strength your spatial awareness like helps everything else yeah yeah it's a fear thing it helped like they jump into phone pits and stuff you know like things that they can't do at

home yeah and it's yeah it's like they do dangerous things carefully yeah sticks and you see them hanging on the bars and then they're on the podium with the little medals but even her posture's improved and everything from it i was going to ask how obviously you left strictly you've since you've done judging you're dancing on ice the greatest dancer you're You're soon to be a judge on Strictly in Ireland. You obviously take your family with you when you travel. It's brilliant. It's obviously a luxury denied to a lot of families.

But it's also, to those that do do it, they will understand how it's sometimes harder because you're trying to focus doing something. Meanwhile, next door is your baby's crying for mum. You can hear them, you can't get to them. How do you balance that mum guilt and the judge? What do you do? Horrendous. I'm horrible at it because.

Like I'm having it right now, right? There's two sides to it, isn't it? My God, yes. It's really nice to have her there. And I think for her to come with me, we get that extra time together. She's got a brilliant nursery, but it's also nice for her just to be with us in our space. But at the moment, she's like, I want mom. Like at breakfast, I want mom.

I want to sleep next to mom. When I leave, she's like, no, don't leave. And so I'm like, okay, fine, we have to just go. of us have to go. If I'm, if I, this morning, they were just supposed to have breakfast and I was going to slip out. But I got up and she went, no. They're clever. No.

So I had to take her, her breakfast, her toys and I, because then I feel really bad. Go upstairs in the room, get in the taxi, come here. She was like, I want to walk. I'm like, I've got a podcast to do. She's like, I want to walk. So we went around. We found some birds. And then I was like, okay, luckily her breakfast was still in my hand.

fed her, fed the birds, and then I had to switch up with my husband and run away. And so I still feel so guilty. I feel guilty that I'm missing really good moments. Like she's gone to Legoland and is like going to be the best part of her day today. And I'm missing that. I'm missing seeing her grow. I'm missing seeing her see things for the first time. So the guilt is huge.

But I know that when I'm here and I'm working as well, I get me time. I just get to hear my own voice because for a while I would sit and I'll still hear her crying like you'll hear the door opening and you're like is that her and so at work sometimes I just get to focus on something

outside of family and being a mom and being a wife I get to focus on me and I also still work on things that I'm ambitious on and things that I want to talk about it makes me centred but then the guilt

is just as high. But you're setting an example of a working woman. I was discussing this with a friend of mine recently and I said it never occurred to me to find a partner for whom I could go through life and not work. I never even realised that was a root in life. You know, I work full-time and my husband works full-time. And I would actually hate to be in a marriage

where I was financially reliant on my husband. Therefore, I'm glad I'm setting an example to Nell that my mother said to me but as women you work you go and new work yeah and I had that with my mom as well my mom was a teacher so she had like that full schedule of leaving

but but I think it took time for her to understand well for time for me to understand mom leaves until it became normal so that's where I'm trying to get her so now I can say bye and she says bye but if I don't leave

three seconds she goes no I think I don't like bye bye and so we're working on that. I really want her to see that it's important. It's important for me. I think she needs to understand that it's important for me to work, but work doesn't mean I don't love you. Work means I will come back and I will still love you the same. So that is the emotion that I, that I create within her going to work that I'm working on because I want her to know mom is going to work, but going to work doesn't mean you're less important. It's that fear I think kids have a mum not coming back, like the first few nursery drop-offs we had were like awful,

like clinging onto my leg. And I was like, oh my God, I'd ring them in 10 minutes later, he's in a sandpit. Yeah. And you're like, what the hell? When they realise the routine of, oh, they do come back. Yeah. And I think if you're in a family whereby, you know, you have a 9 to 5 job Monday to Friday, the routine is quicker for them to pick up.

Yeah. If you're in a job, like a freelance job where we are, for example, whereby you have a podcast today. Tomorrow you could be off. The next two days you could be away. Then weekend you'll be in Ireland. It's sporadic. So they're like, hang on a minute. Why is she going away? I've had four days with her. Why? So it's once that routine starts. But if you're in a working environment with a little routine, the lack of structure is frightening for a young person. It's a lot. When we go away on vacation and she gets us 24-7 and then we're like, okay tomorrow's nurse her she's like

in no way that's happening like you're not dropping me here you're not doing so it's really difficult when she gets a bit older because I've taken her into work environments as well so you've met my daughter now I take her on cover shoots she's been into the office she thinks this is beyond exciting

and glamorous she went to Gorka's shoot now really yeah she's having a picture of Gorka blown up in a bedroom Gorka's topless by the way oh yes we all did it we've all I'm really nervous because she's got a big personality

she's got a huge personality and I'm like oh my gosh will this be our world forever but we'll see how's Marius with it all because obviously he's so lovely Marius he's whenever I meet Marius

whenever I'm in his company which has been a while when we did the talk he's got an element of calm to him even in the most chaotic situations I remember once the tour bus was late and everyone was like we're not going to make it he was like

it's okay and I said we have a show jose did he marius we have to get to the venue he's like shrugging and i thought i would love to take that energy it is like a nice ying yang for you but 100% but it's also me going move move why you're so slow like i'll ask him a question how was your day and he'll just go i'm like don't blink at me how's your day yeah he's like you're fast and you're loud and you're like always on and i'm not so you have to adjust so i find I am myself going, okay.

Take a breath. How was your day? And then I expect like a two minute thought. It's silent. And then he goes, my day was, I'm like, oh my God, I can't do this. I can't do this. But when I am, when I need that stability and I need that constant and that support, he is one million percent there.

He literally is the yin to my yang. And he's so wise as well because I can see people. and I'm quite short with people and he's a lot more thoughtful and a lot more patient and a lot more caring and so he's teaching me it's taken 15 years

but he's teaching me patience and enduring people and living with people and not using my South African like if I don't like something I'll tell you and then I'm like I'll never see you again where he's like no you can't you can't do that like you just

you don't know what they're going through You don't know what their thought processes. You don't know their perspective. So you really need to calm, calm down and just relax. You don't have to be fine all the time. But he's brilliant. And especially when I have the baby, and I have to work. He's really supportive.

He's like, okay, I'll come with you. And then I'll have, like, right now he's got the baby. And then when he's working, I'll take the baby. So he's really open sometimes to just be that dad who takes care of his daughter. He's living his best life at Legoland now, isn't he? best and he and i'm like m and m no sugar i'm like okay okay okay we go to m&m and then we see we see but no sugar it's like okay and i've got a pack of m&ms in my back i'm always like this is our secret don't tell daddy he has a packet of sweets and she's like daddy look

daddy mommy gave me sweet so i'm always in trouble he's a professional dancer as well and you met he just mentioned 15 years ago and was that on the dancing circuit yeah so i i was studying engineering and I was working as an engineer and I absolutely hated every second of it and I said to my mom I don't think this is for me I really don't like it it's um it's just not my passion and I was like I think I missed dance because I had to stop dancing to work and I was like I miss it and I think if I feel like this for the rest of my life I will be unhappy and so I'm going to do things that make me unhappy I might be poor I might not even succeed I might struggle I might go through some tough times, but it will be because I chose to, and it will be because

I wanted this. And my mom said, no. And I said, well, I'm going to do it anyway. So here we are. And so my left. But before you leave in our dance circuit, you need to have someone that you're going to dance with, that you're going to move in with, or that you're going to do this whole journey with.

And I told my sister, and my sister was like, okay, I know a guy who's also looking for a partner. and then we had a tryout and we had so much chemistry and from there is history really yeah so we met that was there

yes but she wanted it but she didn't want it she was like I'll give you this guy I'll give you this number I'll give you a few guys that you can try out with but I don't want you here I don't want you in Germany she was already in Germany

yeah she had already had 10 years of the struggle of a dancer's life and she had the same how I feel about my daughter she felt like about me which is disgusting so she's like I don't want this life for you I don't want you here

I don't want you to to go through the hell that I have gone through and she didn't talk to me for like a year no yeah my whole family

it was so upset that she feels to be a dancer and she was also like this boy Marius he just wants to be your boyfriend that's all he wants I want you to be serious

and I was like well you're very late now yeah it's very late now And so we were together and we were dancing together. But then after a year, they all just were like, okay, we're really sorry and we miss you and we should have supported you. But it's so good that you did it yourself as well and you were able to succeed.

And how nice that your family has succeeded, like from everything that was technically and physically against you in terms of how you look and how your body shape, how your sister's thriving. She looks incredible. She's the judge. You're going to be a judge. You won the series twice. Obviously, you've been a judge in Germany, though, before. No, I was a profession. That's where the UK found me.

Oh, fair. No, in Germany. This island is your first time judging Strictly come dancing. Yeah. I'm back in the brand. And are you going to be like an Anton? Are you going to be like, you're going to be a Craig, surely? No, do you know what I think?

Because I've been thinking about this for such a long time. And I'm now obviously watching Strictly in a different light, because I used to watch strictly as a professional and now I'm watching it as a viewer but now I'm watching the judges and I'm watching different countries as well because the Italian one is also happening the Spanish one seeing Gorka

taking notes from Goka and I think really I would love to be the judge that critiques and helps rather than judges you on what you didn't do good and I hope that once they've had an interaction with me they know how to better themselves and they feel good about

themselves rather than things that they didn't do because I can't change the past I can't change your training room and I can't change your professional but I can help you succeed in the future so I hope to be that kind of guardian angel who's like this is what you could have done better this is what didn't look good this is how I'd like you to improve it so kind of like a guardian angel critique boss bitch go who's saying to me some of the contestants on the series he's judging get offended if like one week you give them an eighth and then the following week it's a fine. Oh no.

And he said he's explained to them. First of all, it's not personal. And we judge you on the dance and the dance alone. We don't judge you on how you danced last week plus this week. Yeah. It's a different style, a different dance, different music. Different discipline. It got to be on that dance alone.

So he said someone could be fantastic at the cha-cha-cha-cha. But when it comes to the fox truck, they would fight. Yeah. Then you have to be honest about it. Yes. Every dance has its own personality. Every dance has its own judging. criteria. The Foxtrot is so difficult and it's so intricate, whereas the salsa is like three

steps and you're supposed to have fun. The level of critique is completely different. The level of discipline is completely different. So yeah, you take every dance for what it is and what are the criterias that are meant to be met. And yeah, every week is different. It's supposed to feel like that, I guess. And that is the journey, right? That every week is supposed to feel new for them. Yeah, and difficult and challenging, and then they rise to the occasion. We're going to get Claire on Strictly in England. Come on, Claire. We're starting a petition.

We need Claire on that Strictly come down. Let's go. That's my, I'm absolutely campaigning. They would love that. Can you have a word? You have a word. Be like, I'll put you in the magazine. They've got 13 weeks of promotion.

I would love that. We're on a one-woman campaign, even after seeing Vicki Patterson's feet, which she shared with us. And I was like, that is absolutely gross. But it hasn't quite put me off. No. The training's intense. like people don't realize how full on

and it's mentally as well it's mentally challenging I mean I think now I was 30 what was I 32 when I did it I get brain fog now like I'm 41 this year and I'm like at that stage I think me trying to learn a dance now

I don't think I'd be able to remember it but look at Alex Kingston this year she's in her 60s she's amazing she's just quite regal yes and how she moves and the energy that she gives She's just giving, I don't know, you just want to be her friend. She's got a great teacher though as well, aren't she?

Yes, Jojo's fantastic. And Joja's really good at really taking care of his celebs. Like he just genuinely, the care that he has and how he protects them and he loves them and he creates lifelong friendships with them is brilliant. I think a lot of celebs probably would want to go on and want to be with him. Just simply because it is so scary. It is so challenging. It is so difficult.

And you want to go through that with someone who's on your side, not against you. I'm not Jojo. I can tell you that much. But I don't have one Jojo treated me. Like he's going to do this or it's done. Yeah, you were hardcore. I remember saying to Aliyash once, literally minutes before I danced. I went, I don't know this routine, Aliash.

And he went, what? I said, he said, I've genuinely, I've gone up. he's forgot it, I don't know what it is. And he went, just keep holding me, I'll get you through. And I remember you said to me, what do you mean you forgot it? You've been doing it all week. And I was like, I know, but I've just forgot it. And then I just heard dancing, then I went, and we did get through it.

Your partner gets you through, but it's that. Have you ever had that when you've been a performer yourself, like, where you've stepped on the stage, or is it every dance you know your focus, you get it? Do you ever have that? I don't know what the fuck I'm doing? No, no. No, is that just a professional thing. No, the thing is, I think the body is the most incredible.

tool that we have. So even if your mind or your fear tells you that you don't remember, your body will. I've had celebs who've said that I'm the wrong person. First, I am the wrong person to say that too. So I think they'd be scared to even say

I forgot. Yeah, I'd be like, what if I left Africa for, for you to forget your routine? You think I came all the way here for you to tell me you're scared? We don't have time for you to be scared. Generally, that would be my pep talk. But also because I think it will be my nerves. Being like, I can't handle your nerves right now.

I can't handle. You're telling me you forgot. That's not normal. It's horrible. It's so frightening. And I think Bill once said to me. And we did the dance. And I remember because he said, I don't remember.

It put fear in me. So I did the dance scared and just staring at him and holding him and making sure that he was going to not make a mistake. And we got off the floor and I was like, I'm never letting you go in any routine again. You have no freedom. because you will never say to me again two minutes before we go on I forgot what is I forgot he looked at me

I was like what is I forgot I forgot we've been training 10 to 10 you forgot I never let him go we did every dance in hold because I was terrifying and then we did our rapper's delight

where he had to dance next to me and I was like I don't know I don't know if this is going to work out I said to Sarah, Sarah, I think, I think I'm going to have a mental brain. I can't do a routine where I have to let him go. And we did the routine and it was the best routine. I remember a champion.

Yes, but he made so many mistakes that I was like, this is going to make me freak out. But it's okay. And I think it's a part of the journey where people now, now, now, because I've matured, if you say that to me, I'd realize it's because you're not a professional dancer. And that is completely normal. It's complete, like LeVois made mistakes. That is normal.

George made mistakes because they're not professional dance. It just doesn't click for them like it would for us. Now I'm understanding. Back then I'd be like, oh no. Well, it was like we had Karen in, didn't we, who's dancing with Carlos, the Lioness. Yes, yes. And she was saying, she asked him to do some keepy uppies. And she said he got to two and couldn't do it.

She said, try again. And he couldn't do it. And she said, because you're not a pro footballer. You won't be able to. I'm not a pro dancer so please don't expect to be able to and that's why it works

because understanding yeah I didn't have that I didn't have time I was like I want to win you've got some trophies we're getting somewhere

yeah what is next for you obviously with the you've got this what your future plans well right now I just released my first novel it's erotic isn't it

it's very essential slow burn writing that was kind of the thing outside of dancing even though the book is set in the dance world and it's professional dancers on tour. Oh, we all know what happens.

Until this book. Because people don't really know what happens on tour. So it's really nice to tell the back stories of, like the life stories as well of dancers and the fun nights and the hectic nights and the fights and the catiness but also get the love stories that happened on tour. I'm working on the second one. That's called Soulmates.

And that's going to come out in two years. So that's pretty much like the big thing that is like taking over my life right now where we just have to sit and make sure that the book is exactly where we want them to be. And then the readers are really into it, especially if you have one and you want them to be caught up into the second one as well. I bet Marius is loving it all that practice, isn't he? Let's practice this position for my book. Genuinely.

Because like part of the research is reading other books, right? Because that's where you get inspiration. That's where you put yourself in the right state of mind to start writing. And obviously, when it's a spicy novel, Maris is like, can we just write books forever? Could you just quit everything else and be an author? Because I'm loving the practice. Or sometimes I'll just listen to an audiobook and there'll be a really spicy scene. And I'll put it in his ear and he's like, wow.

And I'm like, yeah, more men. That's what your book's going to do for a lot of people, alter people's relationships possibly. That is, hopefully that is what I'm hoping for. I think men just think, oh, Otey wrote a book about dancing, and then they read it, and then they get stuck in, and they were like, Oti, we did not expect this from you, and we didn't see this coming. See, I did expect it from you. Yeah, because you know me.

You know me. But when a lot of people read it, then they passed it on to their partners, and they were like, we've had the best nights reading those books. So it's been a great learning cover, but I think their experience, just writing has also taught me so much, like being patient, thinking up scenes, writing them. And I co-wrote it with a lady called Lorraine Brown. She's brilliant.

And she's just been able to word it so well and create storylines for just to feel like a whole other world that you're in. Can't wait to read it. I'm going away next week on holidays. Yeah, we should get your copy. Take a coffee with me. Yes, please. Yeah, with my pin a collada.

Yes. Oh, you'll have her best. get honestly get some shades leave the daughter i've got i've got a new bikini arriving you have to watch it under a towel yeah yeah that's like in an umbrella so before you go we have some quick fire questions for you jemma and i love eating and we are inviting ourselves to yours and marius's where we're going to have a dance in the kitchen oh yes while you're prepping us dinner what are you cooking us that's amazing okay so we'll do like a fish platter proper fish platter with some nice sauce rice on the side, lots of vegetables, but they'll be spicy, because we like spicy

and wine. Lovely. So, get us ready for the dancing. Yeah, from Cape Town. Nice, South African, lovely. Yeah, it's really good. It's really fruity. We've got that citrus farm where we're from.

So, yeah, it's got, it's like great wine. So you go into a desert island for 12 months. 12 months? Yes. What one thing are you taking? And can it be a person or? It can be anything you want. I'll take my family.

No, only one. My daughter. My daughter. Leave Marius, yeah. Take my daughter with me. Yeah, that's my best friend. By a bad man, the last people I would take with my kids. I'm going to a desert island.

They are the last. I said my dog. I said I'd take Benji. No, I'd just take... Leave the kids. We have so much fun just as. It'll definitely be heard. Coffee or wine?

Wine. Wine. It's not a question. It doesn't have to be South Africa and it's just going to have alcohol. one thing that made you barely laugh recently or the last thing that made you barely laugh recently oh god what was it probably my daughter again

my daughter she does so many silly things oh yes okay so bedtime it's bedtime and I was like oh can we put your pajamas on and then get ready for bed and she goes no I want to go to papa I'm like papa's not here and she went

ugh and she walked out of the rope And then she came back and she went, Papa is here, Papa's sleeping. And just rolled eyes and left again. It was so clever. She's not even two. She's not even two yet.

She's born premature show. Ideally, she's two even next year. Just for her to go, Papa is here. Papa sleeping. And walked up and I couldn't stop laugh at him. He's going to have his hands for any, Marius. Me? Like I'm scared of her.

She's a scorpion. I'm so scared. Scorpio's a wild. She does this thing where if my husband is like trying to help her tie her shoes, she looks at me, she goes, she goes, she goes, what's he doing? What is he doing? And then he looks at it and she goes, and I'm like, oh my God, this girl, and we just laugh. What's one thing that someone listening today can do to make themselves feel better?

Take a walk. Honestly, just exercise, move. I think if you've learned anything from today, it's just movement has made all of us literally the happiest people and I think health as well thank you so much for coming in today we've loved it thank you o'tee we know how busy you are thank you so thank you very much we're going out tonight jama we are to the pride of britain awards yeah i've got fomo no but thank you for listening or watching as well and if you've enjoyed today's podcast please do subscribe to us and also forward it on to a friend your mum sister anyone that

Also enjoy listening to the likes of Otey and all the other amazing guests that we have on Just as well. Thank you. Thank you.