Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Laura Whitmore on Finding Positives in a Turbulent 2020 and Protecting Herself on Social Media

Episode Date: October 29, 2020

This week on Going For Goal we welcome onto the podcast a former WH cover star – the Irish model and presenter, Laura Whitmore. She has become one of the best known and loved faces and voices, on TV and radio respectively, since she landed her first job with MTV in 2008. Her grit and positivity shine through in this episode, where she chats to WH editor-in-chief Claire Sanderson about her rather turbulent 2020. A year that began with the high of landing the plum job as the new Love Island host, before losing her dear friend Caroline Flack part way through the series. Laura tells us how – while it’s certainly been tough – she has been grateful for the fact lockdown has given her time to grieve. It also allowed her to spend more time with her partner Iain Stirling and rediscover the importance of stillness for mental health. Something that’s been MIA in her schedule since she moved from her hometown of Bray, County Wicklow, to begin her career in London more than a decade ago. She also opens up about her – relatably irregular – workout routine, dealing with online trolls and trying her best to use social media as a force for good. Follow Laura Whitmore on Instagram: @thewhitmore Follow Claire Sanderson on Instagram: @clairesanderson Follow Women's Health on Instagram: @womenshealthuk Topics: Laura Whitmore on self-care during the pandemic How she protects her mental health on social media Why lockdown gave her the chance to grieve friend Caroline Flack What it's like to work on Love Island with partner Iain Stirling Her go-to exercise for staying fit while travelling Like what you’re hearing? We'd love if you could rate and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, as it really helps other people find the show. Also, remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, so you’ll never miss an episode.  Got a goal in mind? Shoot us a message on Instagram putting ‘Going for Goal’ at the start of your message and our experts could be helping you achieve your health goal in an upcoming episode. Alternatively, you can email us: [e-mail].   Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, you are listening to Going for Goal, the weekly Women's Health podcast. My name's Rochene Dev Shirkan. I'm senior editor on women's health, and this is your weekly chance to plug in and be inspired to work on your health and wellness. Some weeks will bring your advice from world-leading experts on how to achieve the health and wellness goals that matter most to you. On others, like this one, we call up some of our favourite celebrities and internationally renowned fitness superstars to discuss the healthy habits that help them achieve their personal goals. This week we welcome onto the podcast, the former Women's Health cover star, Irish broadcaster Laura Whitmore. Her grit and positivity shine through in this episode, where she chats to Women's Health's Editor-in-Chief Claire Sanderson about her rather turbulent 2020.

A year that began with the high of landing the plum job as the new Love Island host, before losing her dear friend Caroline Flack partway through the series. She tells us how, while it's certainly been tough, she's been grateful for the fact lockdown gave her time. to grieve. It also allowed her to spend more time with her partner, Ian Sterling, and rediscover how important stillness is for her mental health. And stillness is something that's been MIA in her schedules since she moved from her hometown of Bray and County Wicklow after landing a job with MTV more than a decade ago. Laura also opens up about her relatively irregular workout routine, ignoring online trolls and trying her best to use social media as a force for good. Just a little disclaimer, Laura spoke to us before the latest batch of restrictions came into force.

So please keep that in mind. Hope you enjoy the episode. Hello everyone. My name is Claire Sanderson and I'm the editor-in-chief of Woman's Health. Today, I am joined by one of the UK's most famous TV presenters. She hosts Love Island. She also is a presenter on BBC Radio 5 Live. And I'm sure many of you will also know her from her days on MTV. I am joined by the lovely Laura Whitmore.

Hi, Claire. How are you? I'm very good. Thank you so much for joining us this week on going for goal. On this podcast, we talk about someone's wellness journey and all aspects of their wellness and self-care and balance. But it would be remiss of me not to talk about the situation we're in at the moment because if there's ever a time where our wellness is being threatened and compromised, It's the situation that we've found ourselves in in 2020

in this COVID lockdown world that we live in. It's a very strange world we live in. How have you found the last few months? When I kind of reflect back, it's so extreme because I guess a lot of people are struggling with many things as well as the obvious where people are not being able to work and not being able to see loved ones. And I know there's a lot of like mental health issues around that too.

But I've actually kind of tried to see the positives. And I was just talking to a friend the other day. and I've really, really valued this time to reset because I don't think I've ever, in my life, Claire, been at home so much. I've never slept in my own bed. That sounds really bad for this many consecutive days. And it has been lovely. And I didn't expect that because I think it's been such a difficult time, you know, with uncertainty with work and, you know, not being able to see families in other parts of the world and having to associate. distance and I'm such a social person and I love hugging people and I love touching people and

I'm just not used to not being able to like have to have that distance but looking on the bright side of things just being at home I at the beginning of the year was so crazy and I was flying a lot I was in Cape Town in South Africa doing Love Island I can't believe that was this year like I feel like that was 10 years ago and I've always kind of been on a plane even like from early MTV days you mentioned there I was always like flying different festivals and I and that person who doesn't like to stay still and and maybe to my detriment sometimes, I just, I always have a suitcase and I'm going somewhere. So I've been forced to stay still. And I think it's been good for me. Do you think it will change your priorities going forward and how you will go about living your

life? I think so. I hope so for the better. I sometimes think I'm a little bit of a people pleaser where like I hate letting people down and sometimes I'd find myself, oh, I'd be running all over the place like a headless chicken because I'd said it's my friend's birthday. and this is happening and this is happening. I said I'd go here. And then I thought, you know, you have to look out for yourself as well and know what's right for you

and people will understand. And during lockdown, there was nowhere to be going other than the Zoom. And it's okay to just not go to something because you want to be at home and because you need to self-care. And I learned to kind of listen to my body and my body needed a break.

I needed a break badly when March came. And I was kind of forced to take a break. and I honestly it's been so so important for me to even deal with things a lot of things that have happened this year even things have happened in the last 10 years like my life since moving to London London is like I moved over here from from Ireland from County Wicklow and not saying that County Wicklow isn't fast-paced but London is a lot there's a lot more going on so I feel like I've been on this roller coaster and to be able to just be home to cook my own meals and not just be eating out or eating on the go I used to eat because I was

hungry, which is important, but I like the ritual of it now, that it's a process. And, and yeah, little things I've kind of found out about myself, which has been nice. Would you share a couple of those things that you might have found out about yourself? Well, I realized that I do find it really hard to sit still. So I've had to really push myself. And then you kind of think, what are you running away from? Or why are you not just, like, happy in your own company? So that's been really nice. And I have been quite happy in my own company. And obviously, I live at my partner as well. So his company's been lovely too sometimes. But it's okay to take a few hours of the day to yourself or read a book or just potter around the house or clean and spend time cooking. I said, I was always in a rush. I would eat because I'm hungry and you're kind of on the go and you eat just for the sake of it rather than go, well, here's all these ingredients and I'm going to really enjoy this as a process and it's a ritual and an experience. And I learned that I enjoyed that. I learned that I enjoy cooking. Who knew? And, and, and even like our thrill of the day,

remember when we could only leave the house once a day? And it was like to walk the dog. Again, when I got my dog five years ago, and I'd always bring them with me on shoots and I'd have to like run home in between filming or doing DJing to walk the dog. And now I'm like, I love walking the dog. It was like the highlight of my day.

But before I was trying to squeeze it into my schedule. And sleep as well. The one thing I've appreciated is that we can just have more sleep. But yeah, we're not commuting, we're not rushing round. and it's just nourishing ourselves holistically, getting that simple things, like more sleep. Although, do you know what's weird, Claire?

Like, during lockdown, like I woke up early. And I used to always be, I wish I could have a lion. I hate early cold times. I wish I could have a lion. And then I had a chance to have this lion. And we used to wake up at like 7 a.m. going, why are we doing this now? It's strange.

But I think I did realize I still need routine. So even though what I'd normally be doing kind of just evaporated as disappeared, I realized I needed to set up, have a coffee or get up and have breakfast and walk the dog or sometimes I would do an online yoga class or a workout with my trainer via Instagram. And I just realized I do need some sort of routine. Absolutely. And I think we've all gone on a journey this last four, five months, whereas in the beginning it was panic. We were all panicking. No one knew what was happening.

This was such an unprecedented situation. And like for me, I started eating loads of chocolate and sugar. It was like a stress coping mechanism. I know a lot of people turned to wine. And then we slowly got into, yeah, absolutely. A lot of my friends, I don't drink very much. And my, my poison is sugar and, you know, Nutella from the jar and stuff. Big spoon.

Yeah, absolutely. And I had to take stock after about a month and go, this can't continue. Because this is obviously going to go on for some time. So structure and routine is absolutely essential. You mentioned your partner, Ian Sterling, who's the voiceover on Love Island. So you went from living together and working together to really living together.

So you were together 24-7 in lockdown. How was that? Well, to be honest with you, when Ian works on Love Island, I never see him. So we spent a lot of the beginning of the year apart. And to be honest, since we've been together, our schedules have always been like crossing each other in the night. So when I was in Cape 10, I'd be flying back and forth. I was recording a lot

in London, which is because I do a live show in London. So I still doing radio and after Sun, which is like the after show. Well, Ian actually went out there for the whole time. So he's out there for the full six weeks or more. So I saw very little of him. He's a totally different schedule. He doesn't work in the villa. He works in the production set. So he's got his voiceover booth. So we'd have to make an effort to see you that we had separate rooms because we had different I'd be going into the villa and if there's a late 9th vote, I could be leaving the villa at 4 a.m. Because I remember once I went in at 1 a.m. and then two of the islanders were having a fight. So we're like, I can't go in now. This is too good. So I had to wait for like two hours for them to stop fighting.

So I got home at about 4 or 5 a.m. And Ian was up the next morning to do voiceover and watch the VT. So we didn't have that much time together. So we're actually really thankful to, this is the first time we've really had spent time together, which Claire can be worrying because you're like, what happens if I don't actually. like this person because the relationship works because we don't spend a lot of time together. But it has been really, really lovely. And I think we both needed time. So you do like this person then? Yeah, thank God. That'd be really awkward. I have some friends who are in lockdown with people they didn't like and I, it's horrific. I can imagine some people in shared houses and stuff with housemates that irritate you at the best of times. Well, I shouldn't probably share some of this. I won't mention names, but I remember after lockdown, remember when the pubs first opened

and I met up with a friend and a couple of friends for drinks. It was this, like lovely outside beer garden. And we were away, so we rented this little cottage. And the next morning, two of the couples had broken up. They had left. And there was a girl there and a guy there and their other halves had left them because they had, because they'd had a fight and they realised they didn't like each other. And it's like, lockdown, it makes or breaks to you. And I was just really thankful looking at Ian going, we did it, we survived. You see everyone for all the negative points of the front and centre. So you mentioned do a lockdown that you have continued with your wellness and you've done yoga, you've been doing

online workouts with your trainer via Instagram. So, sorry, who is your trainer? Harry Jameson. So Harry is a good, he's a good pal of mine. I've known him for years. He's like in a group of friends. And I mean, he's been trading me for a while. But I'll be honest, Claire, like, my schedule is so low of the place. I'm like, I know Harry, we're meant to be training tomorrow, but can we cancel that for next week? And I'd always be like, and we bet would be he'd be away a lot as well. We'd always say, and let's do it tomorrow instead. And it became less a regular thing, especially when we had to go into the gym to do it, because you just traveling into the gym, having a shower, coming back home, then it'd take up an extra an hour or two just with the commute

and having a shower and blow down your hair if you had to go to studio afterwards. And during lockdown, there was no excuse because I couldn't say, oh, I actually have something on because I was at home. And it was really important for me, not just for the physical side of things. Actually, more so than the physical side of things was just the mental side of things, as I said, having that structure. So during lockdown, every Saturday and every Thursday morning, we would do a workout. We do one stretch and then we do one kind of full body workout. And it was really lovely. And I never in my wallet dreams thought I would put out myself working out because it is not a pretty sight and it's not something I want to share with people. I hate going to the gym

and seeing people I know because I'm like, don't look at me. But during lockdown, I didn't really seem to care and it was really nice seeing um we'd get comments from people who you know working with the NHS for saying oh I really enjoy this little workout every Saturday morning it's like a little thing I look forward to and and people of all ages and it became it became regular that I almost we're not really doing it now um but we might we might come back and do it because I miss it so what type of training was it hit body weight yeah we do a mixture so we do hit and the one thing with Harry as well which is brilliant. He always does like, you know, a proper warm up, a proper warm down, and he always does like a guided mindfulness afterwards, which I think is great because, I mean, you know more than anyone, like how interlinked physical and mental health are. And that was really important. And to be kind on our body, I think myself included, when you see everyone working out, you're like, oh, I need to be working out every day at home during lockdown. And that wasn't for me. That's not how my body works. So we would do something like a hit, maybe on a Saturday and then maybe on the Thursday then we would just do more yoga stretches and mobility

and things like that. So in an ideal world and I know that your schedule maybe in normal times is unpredictable but what would a week of workouts look like for you? Again it varies so I always try and pick things that suit my lifestyle and the number one thing is I always have a pair of trainers in my bag because you can do that anywhere. And I remember, just give an idea, I remember years ago, I was away in Meyerhofen and I think it was snow bombing. It was at music festival over there. And then I got a call for my agent saying they wanted me to do this behind the scenes

on the James Bond film and I had to fly to Mexico. And I went from Meyerhofen to Mexico, but I was only there for two nights. And I never really had time to see any of the city other than to interview Daniel Craig, which was great. But I remember one, I had my trainers with me because I always have them with me. And I'm not the strongest runner in the world, but I can do a little bit of a jog. And I just got up at 6 a.m. I just ran around the city. And that's the one thing I love up, like seeing a place, but also getting that bit of exercise in as well. So I'll always have my trainers in because you can do that anywhere.

And I'm actually doing something at the moment for BBC Sport, which is the couch to 5K, which has been really good because that's how I started running because you can't really go from zero. I think I ran for a bus, like that's the most I could do, to then suddenly doing a half marathon, which I did a half marathon with a friend a few years ago.

We kind of gave that to ourselves. We said, look, let's do it together, let's train together. And it was a little accomplishment when we succeeded. But you kind of, if you stopped running for a while, you can kind of lose that momentum. So you kind of gradually build yourself up again.

So I really enjoyed the couch to 5K. So yeah, something I think, that that I could do anywhere. And also, you kind of kill two birds of one stone. You get to see beautiful side of the world if you happen to be in a nice city. I remember I used to do it. I used to work in Abitha for MTV doing Ibitha Rocks. And I used to, everyone used to think I was crazy. I used to get up at like 6 or 7 a.m. and go for a run around San Antonio. Now, Claire, I don't know if you've been to San Antonio, but if you run around San Antonio around the beach at 6am,

you will see some sights. I was definitely the only sober person there. I have been to this, yeah. much younger, about at least 20 years ago, different times. Different times. Yeah. The good thing was, I remember running away

from a group of drunken men. I was like, you're never catching up at me. Well, running, I think, is the absolute best form of exercise for your mental health as well. And we, you know, exercising for aesthetics

should be the last reason that people are exercising, in my opinion. But it's just the holistic health benefits of working out. You did have, A very tough experience at the start of this year. Your dear friend, Caroline Flack,

who was also a friend of woman's self, she's been on our cover twice. She sadly took her own life and that impacted you to a great deal and I know you've spoken quite a lot about how that affected you. Grief at the moment is sadly prevalent for so many people due to the death rate for COVID as well.

What coping strategies did you put in place to deal with your grief at that time are ongoing? I think at the time I didn't deal with it because I probably, not wasn't allowed, but wasn't in a position where I could because I was still doing this show and I really didn't know. I was like, no, when you're on a rollercoaster, and you need to get through it. And also, I think when you, I've never lost someone in my group of friends who's so young. Like, I've lost grandparents, but I've never lost someone.

So I think I don't really, I think it's only now sometimes I'll get a message from, it's hard. I'll get tagged in something from a fan account of Caroline. I think it's Caroline. And it's only now that it kind of hit me going, that's not going to, that's not her. I think at the time, it was so overwhelming. There was so much to, when you do a show like Love Island and obviously getting a show like that,

it's a great show, but it's in the worst circumstances. And I was very lucky to have the support of Caroline and the team around me. But you kind of have the world looking at you and everyone wants a reaction. So I was also very careful. It's okay to protect yourself. And grief is so different to so many people. It was also very difficult because Ian was, over in Cape Town the whole time.

And I was in London when it happened. So that was really difficult. And even when I did fly over to him, there was like, I remember at the airport, there was a camera and I was like, are they trying to get my reaction? And I feel it's okay to deal with grief privately if you choose to it.

You can or find your group of friends. Not that I was by myself. I had good people around me, but I found it really difficult because it was so public. So that's why lockdown was really great, if I'm honest, because I had that privacy and I had that time. but I don't know I think a lot of people

It's been very difficult a year for so many people And a lot of people have lost people before their time My cousin passed away of coronavirus during lockdown He was only in his 40s in Ireland And my mom was able to go to the funeral Because it was 12 people allowed But she wasn't able to hug her sister And so that's like, I can't imagine what that's like

To not be able to grieve whatever way you can If that's hugs, if that's with your little group of people And what do you do when that's taken away from you So I think it's going to be a long process for a lot of people. And in its ongoing, there isn't like six steps to grief and then it's done. That's not how it works. Caroline's death sparked a groundswell and reaction to how women in media are treated by the media and on social media. And I know this is something that you've spoken about at length to the treatment that you've had in the past where you've been obscured and the negative comments.

to get on social media. How do you deal with such scrutiny on a daily basis, on an hourly basis? I think you get a thick skin. And also, I think at the start, I probably kept things to myself a little bit. And the one great thing about women, that women, we do tend to talk to each other a lot. We do tend to, you know, have that sisterhood. And I find the more I shared stories with other women, particularly in the industry, women who I hugely respect

and I saw this type of stuff was happening to everyone I wasn't sometimes you feel like you're just being picked out and you're like actually no like the whole system is wrong and everyone is is dealing with their own thing

and you realize it's not personal it's just it's just the system is broke and you need to say something and I think when I first started I was probably a bit scared to say anything because you're kind of told to

just get on with it while now I've definitely found my voice. And I think when you see younger people kind of coming into the industry. And when I started this, Claire, like I didn't have, when I first gone to MTV, Instagram didn't exist. I think it was a few years in before I got it. So, I mean, if people didn't like me, I just didn't know, like it was lovely. You know what I mean?

You just don't know. And it's just that extremes of people, they either love you, like absolutely worship you or they absolutely hate you. And it's so extreme. And a lot of, there's a lot of very unhappy people who tend to push their insecurities. on people who they can see, and especially people who have a platform.

And it's hard because a lot of things that are said are probably drawing on your own personal insecurities. I'm like, I might be self-conscious and someone's pointing that out. And you're like, thank you. That's something I already know. Thank you. So it's difficult, but I definitely feel stronger by talking,

by communicating. And realizing that we're all vulnerable. sometimes you think when you're in this industry, oh, you need to get a thick skin, which I probably have built up a little bit, but it's okay to kind of feel sad and it's okay for something to knock you. And it's okay to speak up and say,

actually, I've had enough. And words can stab you in the heart, can't they? You know, if you go back to playground days, I still remember some of the things that were said to me by nasty children that carry with you through life. And it's just human nature to focus on the negativity. And like you said, you can grow a thick skin. but only to a certain extent,

because you wouldn't want to such thick skin that nothing touches you, because to be emotionally empathetic and how feelings is just this human nature. Yeah, I know it is. And to be honest with you, a lot of people, there's a lot of, like, it's not all doom and gloom out there,

and I always like to see the positive, and there's a lot of people who make comments who don't realize their words. And I'm sure I've said things in my time in passing that maybe have offended someone, and that was not the intention. So I think intention is so important, but there's a loss of,

Probably sick people out there who aren't well whose intention is to hurt. I think we need to look at how the media is at the moment and the way the landscape is. So with certain online publications and commenting sections and how things are written, which kind of open up to a certain type of conversation and a certain type of response. And we need to be careful of that and not allow that. And I think Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, it's all still relatively new. we don't really know the impact. And it's only now we're kind of realizing,

oh, actually, we probably need to have a fewer rules in place when it comes to controlling this. And I think anonymity is a bad thing when it comes to commenting. I think if you're going to comment, you should be able to know exactly who said it because a lot of things are said just to hurt. And Polly would never be said to your face or never be said in public.

So I do think it is responsibility of a lot of me, platforms out there to look at what they're doing and to look at the platform that they've given people. You came under a bit of criticism recently for appearing on the Locker, the British Army podcast. And it was an episode about body positivity. And you very eloquently responded to some of the criticism that was levied at you on social media. And I had an enormous amount of respect for you for engaging with these people in conversation. Is that a strategy that you want to take? because I know many celebrities would just take a, you know, a stonewall approach where they ignore the comments. I will always engage in progressive conversation. I think there's nothing wrong with progressive conversation.

It's very important for us all to better ourselves. I don't think everyone wants to have progressive conversation. I can understand why sometimes people can be, may see an image and think it's something that it isn't. but myself included, but I always think it's important to do your research. If you're going to complain about a podcast, have you listen to that podcast? If you're going to give out about a film, have you watched that film? There's a lot of people who give out about television shows. I'm like, have you actually watched the show? But I am always open to progressive conversation, and I think that is really, really important.

It's when the conversation becomes not a conversation. That's when I don't engage in it. And I'll say my piece, like I will in many different things. even after Caroline, I chose to speak on my platform, my radio show in my way. And then I didn't need to speak about it again because that was, I have to also self-care. And I think if you've got the right platform and you can use your voice and say how you feel in that particular time, that's very important. But I don't agree in like, continuously talking about it because it loses the original thought and the original opinion. So you mentioned self-care in the guise of your online platform.

how do you practice self-care with your own social media? Do you create your feed, actively only choose positive accounts? I think it's important not to live in a bubble as well because during lockdown I had to not necessarily watch the news every day but I also wanted to know what was going on in the country that I was living in so that's really important. But I do think create what you see. It's hard because the algorithms keep changing.

So sometimes things will pop up my news feed from people I'm not following and I'm like, I'm intentionally not following that person because I find them quite aggressive. But I do think, create what you see, take a day off if you want. And yeah, I guess I feel like I'm in my 30s now. I think if I was like a teenager, it would be very difficult. I remember my younger brother.

I'm a brother who's much younger than me. And he's not on Twitter. And I said, why aren't you on Twitter? Is everyone in your class not on Twitter? And he went, I just don't want to do that to myself. I don't need to. Like, if there's a party I'm not invited to him, I don't want to know.

And I just thought that was really, I was like, wow, you're wiser than I am. And I think there's nothing wrong with that. It's not bearing your head in the sand, but I think you have a right to yourself to protect yourself. And I mean, I still think social media overall can be a positive. You can create a really strong community. I try to create my feed what I put out there and keep it as positive as possible. I can put up a picture of me, a selfie of nice hair and makeup, and then maybe the following post might be something,

a bit more important of something that's going on in the world. And I've tried to balance it as much as possible because I feel like that's probably more effective from my followers. So this podcast is called Go in for Goal. What are your goals slash goals for the remaining of 2020 going into 2021? I like the idea of goals because I was reading something recently and I was writing some stuff about the purpose because I think the most important thing in life is having that purpose.

And the goal is not necessarily the be able. all and end all, but the goal kind of gets you towards your purpose. So if you know what different goals can kind of get you towards what you want and what makes you happy. And let's be honest, the end of the day, it's just to be happy, isn't that what it's all about? So, I just think surviving each week during lockdown, I think

that is a goal, keeping the spirits up, cooking meals for ourselves, that was a goal because the purpose was just getting through it. I was very lucky that I had my first book deal. So I was writing a lot during lockdown. I do find writing really important for me. I enjoy the people like my writing, but I do it selfishly as well because I enjoy doing it as a process, as a therapy. So that's been lovely. So I get to have my first book.

I guess I guess it won't be fully published until next year, but like that's done this year. So that was quite a nice little goal in the purpose that I'm going towards. And yeah, I'm I just think the fact, I think if we get to December, if we get to Christmas, that's my goal. Yeah. In one piece. And be able to enjoy Christmas and eat mince pies and the company of our family. And I'd love to be able to like to be back home in Ireland for Christmas because I always spend every Christmas in Ireland. So, um, well, Laura, thank you so much for joining me today.

Um, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I have to say, I love your wallpaper behind you. Ah, thank you. You can see. I can see Laura's flamingo wallpaper. That is super, super cool. So thank you so much for joining me. And I do hope you get through the rest of the year without anxiety.

We can enjoy. And I hope to see you on our screens again next year. Because Love Island is back next year now, isn't it? It's back next summer, yeah. It's being cancelled, so it's back next summer. I might see you on a screen doing something else before then, hopefully. I hope we do. Well, thanks so much, Nora.

It's been lovely chatting with you today. Thanks, Claire. Have a good one. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. And if there's any other celebrities or wellness influences that you love and would love to hear on Going for Goal, then let us know.

If you're a big fan of them, then we're probably a big fan of them too. As ever, if you enjoyed this episode, please remember to rate and review on Apple Podcasts and subscribe wherever you get your podcast so that you never miss an episode. Thanks again for listening. We'll be back next week.