Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Liz Earle MBE: “I’m 63, But My Biological Age Is 39 — Here’s Exactly What I Do”

Episode Date: September 22, 2026

How does Liz Earle MBE look and feel so incredible at 63 — and how did biological-age tests suggest she is 39? In this brilliantly honest and hugely practical episode of Just As Well, Liz takes Claire Sanderson through a day in her life, revealing exactly what she does to stay fit, strong, energised and well. From stepping outside into the morning light and going phone-free until 9am, to her creatine-and-collagen coffee, short but surprisingly serious strength workouts, daily movement and protein-rich meals, Liz shares the routines that have made the biggest difference to how she feels. But this isn’t a story of effortless wellness. Liz opens up about feeling lost and unlike herself in her 40s, while navigating perimenopause, poor sleep, crippling headaches, mood changes, aching joints, tinnitus, the breakdown of her marriage and the demands of raising five children alongside a successful career. She explains how HRT helped her get her sleep, strength and “mojo” back — and why she now feels fitter, stronger and happier in her 60s than she did in her 40s or 50s. Liz also shares her views on muscle, menopause, supplements, skincare, SPF, sunlight, biological age, longevity and the simple things women can do — whatever their budget — to start feeling better. This is Liz Earle’s unfiltered guide to ageing powerfully, prioritising yourself and feeling amazing in midlife and beyond. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do you hope life looks like for you when you are 63? I hope I'm happy, healthy, active and mobile. It's 15 years off of me, so in the not too distant future. But there was a time not so long ago that being a woman in your 60s meant you were invisible. You were forgotten. Your health was declining. That is not the case for today's guest. Today's guest on Just as well is Liz Earle.

She is 63 and is bossing life on every level. She looks and feels fantastic. She's had tests that suggest her actual biological age is 39. How does she do it? You need to listen to find out. I learned so much in this episode of Just as well. I hope you do too. Liz, welcome to Just as well.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. So today is a very exciting day for you and me, because the day this episode goes out, an issue of women's health will come out with you on the cover. Oh my gosh. Who would have thought if somebody had said to me, you know, 20 years ago, do you know what, Liz, in 20 years' time you're going to be on the cover of women's health,

I think you're mixing me up with somebody else. How did you feel when you got the call that women's health has been on the line and they'd love you to go on the cover. Yeah, I mean, it was like a pinch me moment, you know. It's something I'd never thought that would ever happen to me. And I think the most exciting, stroke, terrifying part of that call was when somebody said, we'd like you to look as if you'd never look before. Yes, that was all me.

Was that all you? Thanks. And that, I mean, that is, again, something nobody has ever said to me. And I just thought, okay, let's do this, you know? Yeah, because I, I, I thought you are the poster girl for longevity. You look fantastic, you glow, you exude health. There's no one more deserving to be on the cover of women's health than you. But I did want to make you look like I've never seen you before.

I wanted you to look strong and sexy and just show what women can be like in there. I love that. I mean, and that was a really, you know, driving force. for accepting and for doing it because I think I really feel strongly about empowering older women and that you know life as we age is not a downhill decline you know for me my journey has been very much uphill these last 20 years and I long intend that to continue and I literally want to share that with everybody because I think women go through such a tough time in midlife and later and it needn't be like that if you know with a few simple tweaks and changes and shift of

attitude we can make life different Because you have made changes to your relationship and journey through wellness. And you announced earlier this year that your biological age is 39, which if my maths is correct, is 24 years younger than your actual age, which is 63. Yes. Yes. I mean, to be honest, those metrics, they're not particularly precise. I mean, it's a rough indication.

Obviously, it's nice when you get a much younger biological age. And there are lots of different ways to test. You can test length of telomeres. You can test your glycans. You can test inflammation. So you need to take these things with a little bit of a pinch of salt when all the biohackers say, oh, my biological age is 21 or whatever. But I think these markers are useful because you can see where you sit on a cellular level.

And that's what matters really, rather than how many times you've been around the sun and what your birth certificate says. Because we can be cellularly older than our physical age. and I think it's a kind of it's a good marker to see where you sit biologically and then you can try and dial that further back if you want or if you I mean I know people who've done these tests and they've been older than their actual age and that's a bit of a wake up isn't it?

And the things that accelerate the ageing of ourselves are all the things that we would expect is it UPF, ultra-processed food, is it alcohol, cigarettes or are there things that would surprise some people? I think there can be a genetic predisposition, but as we know with genes, that we can alter the way they behave through epigenetics. So the genes are the deck of cards that you've been handed at birth,

but your epigenetics are how you play the cards, and you can dial those genes up or down, you can switch them on and off. So there is, to a certain extent, there's a difference that you can make. But yeah, it's the usual suspects. It's how much sleep do you get, how much inflammation do you have within the body, you know, what are you eating?

What's your microbiome like? What are your stress levels? How are your cortisol spikes doing? So those are all hopefully modifiable factors that you can change. So let's talk about you in particular. As I mentioned, you look fantastic. And I hate the phrase she looks good for her age. But I wrote in my editor's letter of the magazine,

it would be ridiculous not to reference the fact that you are 63. because the woman sat before me looks and presents as someone decades younger. You know, your skin is glowing, your eyes are sparkly, you've got lovely thick hair, you're wearing beautiful, bright colours,

you're someone who is clearly embracing life. So on a day-to-day, what's your day-to-day protocol to be the Liz Earl who sat before me? Well, I've got into the habit, I guess, of habit stacking. And I do different things now from the things that I was doing in my 40s

and I think they have kind of moved the dial a bit. Fundamentally, my relationship with light is different. So the very first thing I do is I try and get up as close to daybreak as possible. So I try and live a circadian life. And for me, with all the research that I've done into longevity and health span, that I think is the most significant thing.

And it's possibly the thing that we've lost most sight of, to be honest. we've become very disconnected with natural light. So I love it when the days get shorter because it means that daybreak is later. Not very good at getting up early. So I try and set my alarm. I have an app on my phone that tells me what time the sunrises

and I try and get up around that time. It doesn't always happen, but that's what I try to do. And then the first light of the day, I try and make that natural light. Because we get different wavelengths and different signals coming into our eyes from our light exposure. So we're sat here under lots of blue, shortwave blue LED lights.

That's a very different signal going into the cells in our eyes, our mitochondria, than if we were to step outside and get full spectrum daylight. Even on a cloudy day, it's much brighter, and the wavelengths are different from the short wavelengths that we're sitting under. And most of us, particularly when the days draw in, are just going to be under artificial light most of the day. So we have to recognise that that gives a different signal to our eyes, and that controls everything for the rest of the day.

So the most important 10 minutes of the day is the light that you see first thing. So I now get up and I don't put on my lights at home. I open a window and look outside if I can get outside even better. And then I'll kind of find east and look towards east, which is where the sun's coming up. And this is before UV so that the way that the light waves change, before the sun comes over the horizon. And if you're lucky enough to actually see the horizon, then great.

But even if you live in a city, you still get the light that's coming through. through, you know, from the top of the buildings. That light is different. As soon as the sun starts to come up, then you start getting low-level UVA that rises first and then later in the day UVB. But the light that we get before the sun has risen is really rich in red light.

So all those red light masks that we buy, we're getting it free, first thing. And then you've got your near-infrared and far-infrared. And this signals to the brain and it starts our hormone cascade and all sorts of things. So that's a very long answer to a very simple question. What do I do first? thing but that explains why my day has changed the very first thing I do is see the light literally

so we live in the UK we're coming towards the end of September El Nino is telling us we're going to have a terribly wet autumn and winter can you still get the same effect if it's biblical rain outside you can I mean ideally we'd be living on the equator because that that would be great but yes even in the Northern Hemisphere, it's that early morning light signal. And even on a grey day, the light is still in terms of lux, which is how they measure light, likely to be brighter than the artificial light inside. So it's just getting some. And if you're somebody who has to go to work in the dark, then fine. Just as soon as you can step outside, take a light break. You know, if you're having a break for a coffee or a lou break or whatever, just take an extra five minutes to nip outside. And then, you know,

look at the light bulbs. So I've changed all my light bulbs at home. Well, not all of them, because that's you know, be crazy. But I have old-fashioned incandescent light bulbs, which are broad spectrum, which change the light. So later on in the day, I will then, you know, switch lights on and obviously we live in the real world. You've got to put your artificial light on, haven't you? But it's about balance. What benefits am I getting then from standing in my garden for 10 minutes before the chaos of the day starts? So lots of different things. So you get the light signal. So the light, the wavelengths from the light, the near infrared, the far infrared, the far and infrared, the early part of UVA, which is really important.

UVA brings nitric oxide, which is really healthy. So we have these little organelles within our cells called mitochondria, and they are responsible for pretty much everything in the body. And we have them throughout the whole body on virtually every cell in the body, apart from red blood cells. So mitochondria are the master controllers. They produce ATP, so that's our energy source, which is used by the brain. The brain is really hungry for ATP.

So it's our mitochondria that are really controlling everything. And when you talk to longevity researchers, a lot of their research is now focusing on mitochondrial activity and how we can improve it. And one of the easiest, simplest, best ways to make our mitochondria happy is to give them access to good light. So they really respond to this. So even 10 minutes, obviously 20 minutes is better than 10,

10 minutes is better than 5, 5 minutes is better than no minutes. So don't beat yourself up if you can't get out there for very long. or you can only do it through an open window, that's fine. At least that's something. If I can't get outside, I'll brush my teeth in front of an open window. You know, it's something as simple as that. So when I'm outside, I'm getting the light signal. So I know that the mitochondria are beginning to wake up and thrive.

And they're beginning to get that signal that says, right, okay, I'm going to start a little spike of cortisol. Because cortisol is not a baddie. It's just the overload of cortisol that's bad. We need a bit of cortisol because it gives us that get up and go to get on and be energized for the day. So I get that little rising cortisol. We start producing things like dopamine and serotonin,

all those lovely healthy brain chemicals that make us feel good. We set up our melatonin for later in the day, so we get a better night's sleep. It's like pre-programming the body on a hormonal level. So that's what's happening within our eyes. And we also have light receptors on our skin. So the skin is not just this occlusive barrier that kind of keeps us altogether.

it actually has light receptors. And the reason it has light receptors is that it needs to respond to the light that it receives. So the more you can uncover, the better. So even when it's cold, if you can stand there, you know, with bare sleeves or, you know, the hardcore biohacking circadian rhythm people

will be there kind of almost stark naked in their garden, you know, getting the light on the skin. And getting a bit cold. Because cold is, you get that the cold shock proteins, which are helping to improve circulation and blood flow and give the body a little bit of stress, which is good because that creates resilience. And yeah, so don't fear being cold.

That's why people have ice plunges and ice bars because actually lowering the body's temperature can produce a really healthy response. So ideally I would stand barefoot and that brings in another facet. On the grass? Does it have to be on grass? It doesn't have to be on grass. You can be on concrete.

it's about connecting with the Earth's negative charge. So we are all energy. At the end of the day, that's what everything is. You know, this table is energy. It's just atoms and we are all circulating bits of energy that are kind of fused together. So the Earth has a negative charge and it produces negative ions.

We have mostly a positive charge. And if we have too much of that positivity, it's not especially healthy. So it's really good to do grounding or earthing. It's basically the same thing. And it just means that you're connecting physically with the Earth's negative charge. Now, this has been proven in small-scale scientific experiments. So they haven't got the big randomized control trials,

because, as you know, they're incredibly expensive to do, and who's going to do it, you know, in whose interest is it to prove that standing on grass barefoot reduces your levels of inflammation. But in the small studies that have been done, that's exactly what it seems to do. and you feel better, you just feel that everything is kind of balancing in a better way. So you are gaining some of the earth's negative charge by being barefoot. And you're also discharging some of the buildup of positive charge, which is perhaps not so healthy for us.

So things that conduct really well are damp surfaces, damp natural services. So if there's dew on the grass and it's a bit cold, then that's great. You can feel really good that the earth's energy is being conducted in a stronger way. If you are really cold, you could put some socks on, you know, or sometimes if I'm outside, I might stand on like a cotton tea towel if I'm feeling, you know, a bit weak. And things like wet grass is good, wet sand is good if you're on a beach, you know, for those of us, you know, living by the sea if you're lucky enough. Or you can stand on stone or soil.

I remember doing a piece with a journalist when I'm, I first wrote about this a few years ago, and she wanted to experiment. And the only bit of sort of natural space she had was a flower bed outside her flat in London. So we just took our shoes and socks off and stood in the flower bed, looking like real nutcases. But she did say, you know, she tried it for a month and did say, actually, do you know what? I do feel better for it? When there are mornings where you can't get outside, maybe you're travelling, etc., do you feel noticeably different that day? I do. You know, it's not a life-changing difference, but I know that I feel better for just having that time. Now, there are lots of other reasons why that might be, for example. So getting

outside and having that little kind of 10-minute, little bit of space in the day, first thing, it's also a moment to stop and to breathe. And I try and do a little bit of lymphatic drainage, you know, maybe tap my clavicles, because that's the kind of the moment. main drainage points for the lymphatics, a little bit of kind of face massage, just move my body, get rid of the stress because we've been lying flat probably for, you know, many, many hours. So it's good to get the blood circulation and the lymphatics flowing again before the day sets in because I tend to write mostly or be podcasting or doing whatever. So my job is quite static, quite sedentary.

So I'm trying to get pockets of movement in during the day where I can. So I will often be moving outside, trying to get as much. much daylight into my eyes as I can, embracing the fact that it's a bit cold, embracing the fact that my feet are touching the ground, practicing some words of gratitude because we all have so much to be grateful for and it's important to start the day, I think, with a positive mindset. Because what you're describing doesn't seem terribly appealing to me because I hate the gold. But as you were talking, I was thinking, I'm going to try this while reframing my thinking as I'm doing it.

So rather than resent the fact that I'm stood outside my patio door on the cold concrete slab, think this is good for me. This is a privilege. This is going to make me feel better today. Absolutely. And it will. And it's, I did an experiment on my Instagram probably a couple of years ago just saying to

everybody, look, all I want you to do is the first thing when you get up is go outside for 10 minutes. That's all you have to do. and then report back in a week's time and let me know how you feel. And it was just amazing how many people said, my gosh, my mood was so much better. I feel so much happier. I suddenly caught myself smiling for no reason at 11 o'clock in the morning.

And that's actually part of social prescribing. And, you know, GPs are being encouraged to say to patients rather than doling out a prescription for antidepressants, can you get outside for a few minutes? Can you look at nature? And we know that patterns in nature, like the natural reoccurring patterns of blades, of grass or leaves on a tree.

These are fractal shapes that when we experience them, when we see them, our body recognises them as something positive and actually can make us physically feel better. But 10 minutes feels like quite a long time just to be because we're so used to being on our phone. You know, I got the tube here this morning. Every single person is like this. Yeah. And they're not even reading books.

They're looking at their phone. And I was one of them, freely admit. to be at one with oneself for 10 minutes would actually feel like quite a long time. And the kids find it really hard. You know, I've got a 16 year old and I just say, you know, please put your phone down. They can't be disconnected. It's like they have anxiety from it. So one other rule that I have now, and I guess that links back to my early morning routine,

is sky before screen. So don't set an alarm on your phone. You know, buy a little old-fashioned alarm clock or I've got a little digital alarm clock because it's really tempting. You know, most of us go to bed and we set an alarm on our phone if you have to get up at a certain time. And then you switch your phone on because obviously you've got your alarm and you've got to turn it off. And then you go, oh, I've got 10 WhatsApp messages and let me just do a quick check. What's going on in the news? And before you know it, you're sucked in to an inevitable stream of obviously toxic news feeds and negativity and

suddenly asking, you know, people are asking you to respond and questions. You haven't even woken up. You haven't even come to. So I have phone out of the bedroom. This was really hard to get my boyfriend to leave his phone away. And, you know, because he was like something to shake and get really edgy. Like separation anxiety, yeah. Yeah.

And it's fine. Listen, we have an old-fashioned landline. If somebody has a real issue, they will ring. It's fine. Or you can, if you really want to, just get up, go into the hall and have a look at your phone. But then leave it. Leave it. No electronics in the bedroom.

So yeah, sky before screens and just don't resist the temptation. And I'm really trying, this is my new resolution, I'm really trying to not put my phone on before 9 in the morning and to make sure it's turned off by 9 at night. So it's like 12 hours on, 12 hours off. And again, there's the landline if there's an emergency. If I want to read something or catch up on something, I'll make sure that it's printed out,

or I have a book, or I'm listening to a podcast, or something that isn't just sucked into this endless scroll. And you know, it's the Doom Scroll, isn't it? It's the late-night Doom Scroll. Oh, I'll just check my Instagram. And before you know it, an hour and a half has gone by and it's gone midnight and you're still on your phone in bed. It's a nightmare.

Our attention span has decreased to such an extent that I only ever read books now when I'm on holiday on a sun lounger. You know, I don't read books for pleasure. I read books for work, but not entire books. I'll read sections of. but my attention span has decreased to such an extent that I struggle to focus to read a book. I wouldn't dream of travelling around London on the tube

reading a book. You know, we look at our phones. Yes. And I've started, I mean, I'm not so good with books, but magazines I love. And so, you know, I would always have a magazine or two in my bag. And if I am travelling around, you know, sitting on public transport or whatever,

I will try and say to myself, let's just read some print rather than get sucked into other stuff that's distracting. So what you need to do when your magazine comes out is to sit on the tube. Oh my gosh, I will so be. I'll be going, just like walk around London. Can I have a billboard, please.

Your knowledge seems endless. I'm really sorry for you being here on the podcast because you asked me a simple question and I give you a 10 minute answer. No, it's absolutely fascinating, but how do you know so much? And during your research, how do you know when to believe?

leave something and when to discredit information that you're reading? That's a really good question. And I think it is about discernment, hopefully, about having trusted sources of information. I think there's a couple of things there. One, I've been writing about health and wellness for over 40 years. And over that time, I've built up a big repatri of trusted experts and, you know, people who are very forward thinking and who do the research and often they're not the guys who are in the media. They're not the guys in the spotlight. They're the real lab workers that the guys, you know, I interviewed Professor Glenn Jeffrey, for example, at UCL about his work on light and indoor lighting and the effect

of LEDs on our mitochondria. And he is not a public figure. He's not somebody that you'll see sitting on a daytime TV sofa. But the research is there. So you do have to go and ferret people out. You know, I read a lot of academic journals. I'll look at preprints or published data. see who the authors are, track them down, pester them. You know, Richard Weller, for example, who's, you know, this professor of clinical dermatology, you know, he's done amazing research, but, you know, he's not often seen in the public eye. And sometimes it's because the research that these researchers are doing doesn't fit the current narrative. And, you know, sad to say, you have to kind of follow the money.

There's a lot of vested interest in health and wellness. and people who speak against the narrative are the ones who may not necessarily be given the platform to speak because it goes against somebody, you know, making huge amounts of money in a big organisation. So I think for me, I will always look at the vested interest. If I'm looking at a study, for example, it will say at the end of the study or the abstract, it will cite any vested interest and it's really important to look who was funding the study, what consultancy fees are being paid to the academics, who are being published it,

who owns the journals, who publishes the data. It is quite complicated, and I think these days you do have to be really thorough in your research. And I do try. I don't say that I always get it right, but I try and get the right opinion from the right people. And I talked a lot of people who don't agree with me, and I think it's really important to do that too,

because I'm not saying I'm right 100% of the time, but I think it's important to test and to stress test information and to get a consensus of where we think it's going. And also to talk to the guys who are doing the work in the labs, because a lot of what I talk about is new. I don't think it makes it wrong. I think it makes it new. We know that it takes, on average, 17 years to get a piece of data

or a piece of research out of the lab, where it's being worked on in a bench into bedside use and I'm in my mid-60s I don't have 17 years I want that information now I want to go into the labs and talk to these guys

who are doing this amazing work particularly in terms of health span so let's go back to your morning so you've stood outside you've got a bit cold you use the tea towel on your feet to wipe them off because they've got a bit wet on the dew

you're back inside your kitchen what's next so it's really important that you stay hydrated And I think one of the interesting things actually as we age is that we lose our thirst signals. So we might not realise that we're thirsty. So having plenty of hydration, especially first thing in the morning, because we've slept all night. We haven't had the opportunity to be drinking like we would be throughout the day.

We'd be sipping water and cups of tea and things. So before anything else, just rehydrate with some water. And one of the things that I like to do is just put a little pinch of Celtic sea salt in my water. That gives you a little bit of sodium, but you've also got trawl. minerals in that as well and it's super easy or some electrolytes because that's just actually again I mentioned that the body has this electric charge within our cells and electrolytes help with that electric charge hence the name electrolytes so they just help that cellular exchange rather than just giving yourself plain water which can flush everything through which is

good for hydration but actually to have some electrolytes I think is is helpful especially if you've been sweating a lot, if you've been sleeping in a warm bedroom, losing a lot of the body fluid through sweat and perspiration, or obviously been to the gym. I know you're in there first thing in the morning. Do you replenish your electrolytes? So when you say electrolytes, my mind immediately goes to the pre-bought variety, you know, that people should use after they've done a lot of intensive training and sweat it a lot. But we've done features in women's health about how women are using those type of electrolytes needlessly and therefore risking have taken on too much sodium. But what you're talking about is very natural electrolytes.

Yeah, just a little pinch of sea salt, just to give you that little bit of a spark. It really helps to re-energize. I find it much more hydrating, actually. And I will often put creatine in my water as well. I'm a big fan of creatine. Everyone who comes on this podcast is a fan of creatine. It's a fan of creatine, especially for midlife women. You know, I think it's highly researched.

I think it's highly beneficial, really good for helping to preserve muscle mass, and for brain energy as well. So I will take that and maybe a few other bits. I might take a few probiotics, maybe on an empty stomach as well, which I find quite helpful. And so that's my sort of first intake before I then go into coffee. So I do like a morning cup of coffee. So if I'm coming back in from the cold, then I will warm up with a nice cup of coffee. Is this the regular coffee that I've had this morning, or is it a jazz step coffee? It's a pimped up coffee.

It's a pimped up coffee. Tell us about your pimped up coffee. Okay, so I try and have not too much caffeine. And there's, I know, you know, podcasts like Hoopeman or whatever would say, oh, you shouldn't have coffee first thing because it spikes your cortisol. I'm not sure the data really supports that. And I think it's, everything is very personal. You know, I think it's very hard to be black and white with all these things because we're all different.

What works for me is not necessarily going to work for you. It's not necessarily going to work for, you know, my mom or my daughter or whoever. So if you're somebody that responds well to coffee and to caffeine, and that's genetic, actually, there's a gene, there's a genetic snip that actually shows whether you're somebody who responds well to coffee or caffeine and is also good at clearing it. You know, some people find that they can have coffee later in the day, and that's because they have the genetic component that clears coffee quickly or clears caffeine out of the system. I don't clear it particularly well, according to the genetic test, so I'll have it early in the day, but I tell you. My cut-off point is like 1 o'clock. I won't really drink coffee after that, or caffeinated coffee anyway. So I will have usually half coffee and half coffee substitute,

like a barley cup or chickory root, something like that. You can just buy powdered coffee substitutes, which I really like, actually. And they're also prebiotic, so they're giving your microbiome a bit of diversity because you're introducing another kind of plant food. And coffee is a plant food, obviously, it's a superfood. It's actually quite high in fibre, which is quite interesting. So into that, I am continuing a sort of semi-fast, so I don't have really much to eat before about 11.

So in order to keep me feeling fuller for longer, I will use a keto creamer in my coffee, maybe a dash of MCT oil, possibly. I will put in a little bit of Shilajit, which I am absolutely addicted to. So Shilajit being this little black, gooey resin that comes in a pot. You need a tiny amount and it's full of fulvic minerals.

So again, it's a natural electrolyte and it can, it's, legend has it that it's how the Sherpas get up the Himalayas because they, they go up and they get this shillazhip from this fossilized, fossilized rock resin. And it's quite expensive. You get little jars of it. You need a tiny dot. You ought to be careful where you buy it from because it can be contaminated. with heavy metals, so you've got to make sure that you buy it from somebody that has good

third-party testing, batch testing, and it has quite an earthy, smoky, sort of mossy taste. And I have to say I love it. So that goes into my coffee, and I also put a spoonful of collagen powder. Not necessarily for the collagen peptides, although I think they are probably quite useful, particularly as we age, but it also gives me a little bit of protein. and is if I'm going to then go and do a workout, it will just give me something that my body is using as fuel. What else? My creatine sometimes goes into my coffee.

And what else? Yeah, I've actually been experimenting recently with a little bit of colostrum powder, again for the immune system. So that's a relatively new thing for me. So I've just been kind of stirring that in. So this makes this whole kind of like fat cup of coffee. And does it taste like coffee?

It tastes coffee-ish. Yes, I just love it, honestly. And I travel, so I do travel quite a lot for work. And I've got a little travel bag. I tend to keep all my things in bags so I can just pop bags into my suitcase. And, you know, I've got a bag full of knickers and a bag full of swimwear and a bag full of, you know, my coffee stuff.

And in that little bag are little decanted pots of all these things so that I can make my own coffee wherever I am. So the MCT oil, what is that doing for you? So that's medium chain triglyne. and that is giving you a bit of fat that bypasses the digestive system so it's giving the brain something to use as energy and fuel without breaking a fast. So if you're somebody that is big into intermittent fasting or wanting to get your body into a state of autophagy where your cells start to clear out all the rubbish and I'm not a fan of long prolonged fasts but I do find that

that good sort of 12-hour window. And I think when you look at the data, for women, particularly, it seems to be that the sort of sweet spot is maybe that 12, 14-hour gap with no food. So if I finish eating by, say, 9 o'clock in the evening, and that includes drinking, so that's the last glass of wine, that's everything, you don't really want to be having your first mouthful of food until 9 in the morning, or maybe 10 or 11, depends how long you want to push it out for. So, Again, it's personal experimentation. This is not prescriptive. I'm not saying that everybody should be doing this.

You know, you asked me what my day looks like. This is what I've found over the last 20 years of trial and error has worked for me. The fasting piece is interesting because there is an awful lot of research to support fasting. I've read Mindy, Fast Like a Girl. Yeah. Mindy Peltz, correct. I've listened to Endless and Podcast with her. But it's not.

often achievable for many women. So my personal setup is that I don't get home from work till about 8 o'clock. I don't have a big meal. Last night it was a bagel thin. You can have the sort of the, with some chicken, some red onion. And that was fine.

That's an average meal for me on an evening. I've never been someone who eats a big meal at dinner time. I was brought up in, I grew up in South Wales. And the way, the traditional way I was brought up eating was the big meal was lunchtime. And dinner was actually called tea. You know, and my mother and father, well, my mother's not longer with us,

but they ate a very small dinner. You know, my father does still to this day. But then this morning, as I do every morning, I go to the gym. And I leave my house at a quarter to six in the morning because I have to train before I come to work. But I cannot train on an empty stomach. Exactly.

Therefore, this morning, I might eat a banana. I might eat an apple. this morning I was eating some mixed berries with some walnuts but I am breaking my fast but then I'm going to the gym for an hour and 15 minutes and you need it and I think I think fasted exercise is hard and I don't know that we get necessarily the best out of it so for me I like to have a little bit of protein before I exercise so I will try and get my exercise done first thing

because otherwise I find you the day crowd in I don't have time to do it later So that's one of the reasons why I put collagen powder in my morning coffee or shake or whatever just to give me that little bit of sustenance that will then keep me going. And then if I do go and do a workout, I will then maybe make myself a protein shake or have some Greek yogurt with some nuts and berries or something afterwards or eggs. I'm a massive fan of eggs. Yes, you do love an egg. I do love an egg.

I want to be the government's eggs are. I mean, I just want to wave the banner for eggs. We need to eat more eggs. Including the yolk. Not just the egg whites. Oh my gosh, what's the point of just an egg white? An egg white omelet. Are you serious?

I mean, I just have to roll my eyes if somebody orders an egg white omelet because all the goodness is in the yolk. And we need things like coline, you know, eggs. Coaline is quite hard to get as a nutrient, but it's really important for the brain. And egg yolk is one of the richest sources and iron and other good things. And it's the tastiest part of an egg as well. Yeah, it's just... Egg white is pretty bland. Oh, it's got a nice bit of protein to it.

But, you know, eggs are inexpensive. easy to use. I keep boiled eggs in the fridge. So if I just want a quick snack, it's a grab and go. And it's, yeah, and I live in the countryside and I have access to the farm gate

where you have all these lovely farms that sell eggs by the gate. And you just think, yes, that's come from happy hens and well-fed, free range, roaming out on grass, eating worms and stuff, which is what they should be doing.

And super easy. Even my 14-year-old son, whom I wouldn't say he's very good in the kitchen, even he can manage to scrambled an egg. And you can, again, you can pimper up. I love, you know, pimping up food. So I might have a kind of scrambled egg or like a messy egg dish with chuck in some

cottage cheese, really high in protein, some nuts, some seeds, a little bit of heresipase to give it some flavour, you know, maybe a handful of frozen peas or handful of frozen edamami beans, just to make it easy and quick. So you've had your pimped up coffee. You're not eating until 11 o'clock. Not really. So you are training in between. between that time?

I will probably do something. So training is probably a bit too grand a word for what I do. It's not really. I've never been at a gym bunny. I only really started exercising kind of when I was 50. And I will go for a brisk walk. I might go for a short run. I mean, never more than about 3 or 4K and not very fast.

But I do enjoy it, especially. I mean, I like running in the rain. Is that odd? I like running in the rain. It's just that kind of the freshness. And I don't know. it's the sound of your feet and just looking around you. And of course, being outdoors is great.

Because again, you're getting all the benefits of that lovely daylight, even in the rain. Or I'll lift some weights. And again, I think one of the things that I've learned, which is really good news, at least for me, if someone who doesn't really think of themselves as a gym person, is it's short. You know, you don't have to train for hours. You know, really heavy weights. I do weighted squats.

I do my own body weight. push-ups. I bought myself a lap pull-down machine the Christmas before last. That was my Christmas present for myself. So I use that if I'm at home. I do a bit of skipping. And if I'm traveling, I'll take a little thin skipping rate with me because you can do that anywhere. And it might be some tricep dips, again, just using my own body weight. But not for very long. I mean, rarely for more than 20 minutes. I mean, it's, it's, and maybe only three times a week. So it's, it's not that much. because people would expect that you train and you do train more than that

because I've seen your cover image on woman's health and you have fabulously sculpted arms and you know you're you clearly have muscle mass so I do have heavy weights yeah and I think that's where women go wrong that's the key yeah it's you know you sometimes you see women in gyms if I'm travelling if I'm in a hotel gym or whatever I'll look around and I'll see what other people are doing

and they're doing, you know, bicep curls or hammer curls with, you know, three kilo dumbbells. And it's like, you know, I'm using maybe seven or eight. Yeah. And I think it's for me, and I'm not a personal trainer, I'm just relaying what I've been told by personal trainers who I work with. It's better to do fewer reps with a heavier weight. Yes. And so I'll do weighted squats. Every year I kind of up my dumbbell weight.

So I think I started on 16 kilo dumbbells, one in each hand. like kettlebells to do weighted squats, then it was 18, then it's 20. My current dumbbells are 22s. And, you know, when I can get up to doing, what did I do yesterday? I did three sets of 20 reps. That's high reps though for that weight.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'll probably go up to 24 kilos. And then that next stage, every time you get a heavier weight, it's like, oh my gosh, this is so heavy. Yeah. Because that's the secret issue.

it's changing something. So if you can't increase your weight because you may not have access to a gym or you have certain amount of weights at home, then you have to increase the number of reps you do or the length of time. So you have time under tension. So scross more slowly.

Yes, exactly. Slow down, fast up. So count for three down and then up. Or increase your weights. And you're right. I think women think that four kg dumbbells is enough and you'd have to be doing it for an hour

to get the tension on your muscles. They would require the damage on your muscles actually because to grow muscle is to damage your muscles and then they repair. Yes. Yeah, it's a bit like microneedling on the skin. You know, you create the microchannels in the skin which is essentially damage

and then that signals to your fibroblast to make more collagen so that your skin then gets kind of plump and glowy but you know you damage it to repair it to make it better. But you mentioned as well you sort of snack your movement as well you move as much as you can throughout your day I'm assuming you're someone who would walk up

the stairs or the tube as opposed to stand on the escalators and I you know if I see a staircase in front of me I'm always quite pleased because I'm thinking oh great that's an opportunity for me to work out and I'm always carrying huge amounts of baggage with me wherever I go and I'm quite grateful and I always try and have two bags so I've got one in each hand so I can carry them with me

and I think as we get older you know for me working out now, it's not really about how much, you know, how I look or changing my shape for that. It's about maintaining my independence. I want to be able to get up off the floor unaided if I fall over. I want to be able to feel that I can carry my bags up at an escalator that's not working and I don't have to rely on somebody else to help me. We all know about the women fall in and often elderly women, they're not recovering and end up dying because they do not recover. But there's a certain age where women transition from falling to she's had a fall. Yes. You know, she's had a fall. Well, what

an aunt to you? It was had a fall. Had a fall. She's not just say she's fallen over. Yeah. So my father was the same. He's nearly 90. And again, you know, he fell. And he was very clear. He said, you know, yep, yep, I fell over. I did not have a fall. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the gay. The connotations of having a fall. But the reason, for women and the reason why it can be so catastrophic for us is that we are more prone to osteoporosis and therefore more likely

to break a major bone like a hip. And one of the reasons why we're more prone to osteoporosis because they're declining hormone levels that happen when we go into the perimenopause. And you have spoken openly that you did not recognise yourself

in your 40s when you started having your perimenopausal symptoms. You know, I feel embarrassed saying this because I've written about health and well-being for over 40 years. And nobody had mentioned the word perimenopause to me. And nobody had said to me, despite me having five children, so five opportunities with pregnancy for health visitors or medwives or gynaecologists, obstetricians, GPs, whoever, to say, oh, by the way, you know, once you hit your 40s,

you may start to feel a bit different. You know, your hormones will shift, your eastern levels will fluctuate. it's fine you know come back and talk to us and we can help you out and here's a list of all the symptoms that you might experience so i didn't have a hot flush i've never had a hot flush but looking back in my 40s i now realized that so much of what was going wrong for me was perimenopausal so i had crippling headaches i used to carry packets of anti-inflammatories with me all the time um i didn't really sleep very well in my mid 40s barely got a good night's sleep i'd wake up at four in the morning feeling slightly warm, not a flush, but slightly warm with a racing heartbeat. I thought I maybe have a heart issue. My mood changed very quickly. I felt very on edge. I would sometimes feel quite teary for no reason.

I felt very sensitive, very self-critical. My joints were quite achy. And I also had tinnitus, and I didn't realize that that was connected to low estrogen. And it wasn't until I'd been on HRT for about a year or so that I suddenly realized that my ears were no longer. ringing and then I looked into the research and tinnitus and things like vertigo and dizziness is a classic sign of perimenopause because we have estrogen receptors in our ears. So looking back, I really wish that that had been explained to me and it would have made my

40s just so much easier. It was a difficult time. I was going through the sale of my beauty company. I had a lot of pressures going on at work. You know, my marriage was breaking down. I had young children. There's a lot of things, and I think a lot of women do find themselves in this really difficult position in your 40s, when you're looking after younger children, perhaps, caring for older parents or people in your community. You've got pressures at work, maybe pressures in your relationship.

And you lose yourself in that, and that was what happened to me, basically. And how did you come out of that journey to become the woman you want today? I think one of the key things for me was replacing my hormones. I was very lucky in that with my work, I started researching and writing about menopause. I wrote one of the first modern consumer books on menopause called The Good Menopause Guide, and that was over 10 years ago now. That led me to discover Dr. Louise Newson, and she's now huge as the menopause doctor,

and it was sort of relatively early days for her too. And she corrected me on a lot of the misinformation about the safety of hormones, and I started to use natural estrogen. eustradial in a gel and progesterone and immediately I had a good night's sleep I mean I was one of the lucky ones HRT isn't one size fits all you know for some women it can be hit and miss it can take a long time to get it right it's worth persevering but for me it was instant as soon as I had that estradiol in my system my sleep became better regulated and then the headaches diminished and my mood improved and actually I felt stronger physically I didn't have the aches and pain so I was able to do

more in the gym and I gradually got my mojo back. And that was my journey really. That was the start of it, I think, in my early 50s. It's fascinating listening to you, describe your symptoms because I am someone who is very knowledgeable and well versed in anything menopause due to my job and the fact that I'm 48 and a half, very much in the trenches, myself,

been on HRT since I was about 41, Had my hormones tested this summer, and they actually said my estrogen was optimized, they prescribed testosterone. Great. But I have had a headache. It's dissipated now, but I had a headache, a killer headache, for about two weeks. And it was making me feel sick, and reading my phone was making it worse. In work this week, I've had a particularly stressful week where I've had to present to the European president of my company. I had to speak to my entire company

and a company, all stuff. I then had to pitch to my CEO. It's been one of those weeks while dealing with this headache. And genuinely I was convincing myself I had some sort of brain tumor. Obviously. Actually, it was probably the menopause.

And only now I've thought that it's probably... You could. I mean, the thing is, it is worth adjusting. Sometimes our Easter dial levels do need adjusting. And I've had phases over the years when I've increased the amount of estrogen I've been using and other times when I've been able to decrease it. And I think, yeah, and I think, you know, monitoring things like cortisol, obviously,

obviously making sure there isn't anything kind of like physical going on with, you know, fascia release. I've got big into fascia work recently. I just think that's amazing for releasing stresses and strains within the body. And when we hold patterns of tension, that for me has been quite a revelatory thing. That's kind of part of my mechanical body journey. I think. So I think your journey kind of goes in phases.

And I think one of the first things that we need to do as women and one of the things that really helped me was the mindset. Just actually saying to myself, I'm worth investing a bit of time in. You know, I've prioritised everybody for so long and I've pushed myself down the to-do list. I'm actually going to start making a bit more time for myself. And, you know, self-care isn't selfish.

it's really fundamental. And as women, I think, especially as midlife and older women, we get overlooked. We're marginalised in healthcare. We're underfunded. We're under-researched. And we're just told to put up with stuff that we shouldn't be putting up with.

And it's not right. And we need to change it. And we, I do advocate for myself. You clearly advocate for yourself. I have the confidence and the knowledge to do so. But there are so many women who don't have that confidence and don't have that knowledge. And therefore,

are suffering in silence. Well, I hope that the work that you do at women's health and the work that I do at Liz our wellbeing, you know, this is, I guess, one of the benefits of things like social media. You know, social media gets a bad rap, and yes, there's a lot that's not good about it, but there's also a lot that is really good and can be really empowering for women.

And I hope, you know, like you, to be a trusted voice for things that are evidence-based, that are really helpful, that are really positive. and just trying to say to women, you know, be empowered. You know, aging is not a downhill journey. You know, I am better in my 60s than I was in my 40s or my 50s. I am fitter, stronger, happier than I've ever been. With a toy boy as well.

Yeah, the toy boy. You know, the toy boy is an optional extra. You know, it doesn't come with. But, you know, I didn't, yeah, I wasn't looking for a younger man. But, you know, he was presented to me. I thought, yeah, go on then. On a plate. So it's, but you have to get into the right, the right, you know, the right position, I think, to allow these good things to happen.

And it's just once you start, it's like a domino effect, you know, once you start, even if you just start with that one simple thing like going outside first thing in the morning, it's free, it's easy. We can all do it. Yes, we're all busy. Set your alarm for 10 minutes earlier, you know, we can do it, really. And have that short space of time to yourself before the chaos ensues. I have two children at home. I was really surprised to learn that you have five children. Not all at home though, thank goodness.

No, not all at home. But that's remarkable considering the career you've had. And there must have been times where you did struggle to put yourself first. Oh, totally. No, I was nowhere to be seen, frankly. And I think that's the same for a lot of women. and that's why it can all go wrong because we don't have the time to exercise

to prioritise our sleep I was just eating whatever was left over on the kids' plates and rushing to the next thing and rushing through bedtime and bath time so that I could get back to whatever work I was in the middle of doing so where was I in all of this I was just nowhere to be seen

and I think that is where it can go wrong for so many and then of course you get the empty nesting and you're suddenly left feeling flat and kind of where are you and I think that's why women can feel lost because they have deprioritized themselves for so long. It then becomes really strange to actually think, right, okay, how can I now make myself feel better?

And it is about feeling better. You know, it's not about looking better. It's, you know, I think that comes automatically with it because if you're operating well on a cellular level and you're feeling fit and strong and healthy and happy, your skin will just start to glow anyway. That's a kind of beneficial side effect. it's also a side effect of hormones.

You know, when we have more estrogen in our skin, our skin glows. So it's one of the best beauty treatments you can have. Because you do have glowing skin. And you said that you don't have Botox. You don't. No, I have a little bit. Sometimes I have a little bit in my forehead. I actually have quite a bit in my masseter muscles because I grind my teeth.

So they're the muscles by your ear. The jaw here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm trying to wean myself off that. And that's kind of partly why I'm doing more fact.

pressure work with a physio to try and kind of address why these muscles are so tight because that's just kind of a, it's a pattern, it's a holding pattern that I have with my stress. And I do find the Botox here really helpful. But I'm, you know, I'm not anti. I mean, I don't, you know, I think women shouldn't be judged. It's, hey, it's your face, you do with it what you like, you know, let's seriously. But I think I really like in terms of, sort of tweakments, I really like the injectables that get your skin to behave in a younger way.

So the biostimulators. So, you know, things like exosomes, polynucleotides, lactic acid, all these things that, you know, I like microneedling because that's encouraging your skin to behave in a biologically younger way to repair itself. And I think, you know, for me it's all about how can we get our own biology to produce these more youthful effects? I'm a big fan of polynucleitise. Are you?

Otherwise known as the salmon sperm facial, isn't it? It's a derivative of salmon sperm. but yes. I think skincare is undergoing a real renaissance actually because you've got all these peptides and exosomes and things that will talk, will message the skin to make the skin behave in a younger way. And I think maybe skin aging in the future

will become a thing of the past because it's getting more accessible, more affordable. You've got high street creams using really good peptide complexes that are not expensive. And they do help. They do make a difference. So for me, a non-negotiable is SPF on my... I've worn it every day, rain, shine, snow since I was 30.

I'm now approaching 49. And I put it on before I leave the house, whether I'm going to watch my son play rugby or whether I'm coming to work. But you've come under a bitter flack because people maybe misinterpreted what you said about SPF and people accused you of being anti-SPF. So what is your stance on it? Well, I think you need to protect your skin from fierce sunlight. Yeah, absolutely. It's about the nuance, okay, so I would question to you going into winter. Will you still be using an SPF throughout the winter?

Yes, I do. Why? Habit, possibly, because I've been drilled into believing that the sun rays are damaging my skin, ageing my skin. I'm at an age now, as I say, I'm not too far off 50, where I'm very aware of ageing and wanting to, I'll be honest, wanting to look the best I possibly can. So how much sun are you going to get in your daily life in the winter? Not a huge amount because I leave the house in the dark. I would probably then be, when I won't put on SPF, by the way,

and then I would go to the gym, then I would put it on at the gym, walking to the office and then leaving in the dark. So yes, I'm not very little. I might pop out of prep out of breath for a coffee. And on a weekend, I've got two children who play sports. So I'll probably get a bit more on the weekend, depending on how much is coming through the thick clouds in southern England, where I live. So there are two things at work here.

Why I don't wear NSPF in the winter, definitely? One, we're indoor creatures. You go to work, it's dark, you come home, it's dark, you're not getting any daylight. So there's no sun to protect yourself from. And if you are going outside, say at lunchtime, there's no UVB. So UVB is what we tend to think of as the burning rays. They're the stronger waves.

And UVB disappears in the UK around mid-October. And it reappears again generally around middle of March time. So if you're applying an SPF to block UVB, there isn't any. So there's no need. If you go, ah, but what about UVA? Well, UVA during the winter months, again from about roughly middle of October till later in the springtime, is around 5% of what it would be in the summer. So it's fractional. It's insignificant.

In fact, Professor Brian Diffey, who is the clinician who invented the UVA star rating system for boots, he is very dismissive of wearing SPF in the winter. He's virtually no UVA. what there is is very, very faint, and you're indoors anyway. So the two things that the SPF is designed to prevent damage from UVA and UVB, there isn't any, and we're indoors. So for me, that would say it's not a necessity because you're not exposed to the UV that it's been designed to protect you from. Then there's the other side, which is what is the potential damage

that an SPF could cause you. So we know that the skin has its own microbiome. And just like we have the gut microbiome, there's the oral microbiome in the mouth, there's the vaginal microbiome, and the skin has its own microbiome. And the bacteria and all the beneficial cells that are within the skin's microbiome,

all the fungian viruses, they're very subtle and they communicate. One of their communication pathways is to the immune system. So it's helping to regulate the immune system. system through signaling through the skin. Now, every time you apply something artificial to the skin, and that obviously could be potentially a synthetic SPF, you are at risk of disrupting that signaling. You're also at risk of sensitizing the skin. And when I interviewed people like Dr. Veronique Batai, who's a consultant dermatologist, and she's actually a skin cancer expert,

and she's very anti-SPF in the winter, particularly, and she sees increasing rates of perioral dermatitis caused by over SPF use of overloading the skin with unnecessary chemicals that we simply don't need that could end up sensitizing the skin and causing more harm than good. So for all those reasons, one, we don't need it because we don't need protection from the sun that we are essentially using the SPF4 and B, there's the risk of increased sensitivity and irritation. So those are the two main reasons why. Sorry, it's a long answer, but I think it's important to get the nuance, why I wouldn't use it in the winter. When would I use an SPF?

I would use an SPF when the UV index is really high. I have a fairly fair skin tone, so I would be more likely to need the protection from an SPF if I was out in the sun, perhaps in the middle of the day. But I also want my vitamin D. Let's not forget that the sun, we have evolved over the millennia as outdoor creatures. We didn't come into this world living in beautifully lit modern buildings.

We lived outdoors. and we lived outdoors within the sun and that's why our skin has light receptors on it because we have evolved to experience light in that way. One of the reasons why getting early morning light is really important is it sets up the skin's response for later in the day. So UVA, one of its main points of what it does is it produces nitric oxide within the skin.

And this comes back to the work of Professor Richard Weller, who's the chair of clinical dermatology based up in Edinburgh. And he's published lots of papers. In fact, there's a big paper coming out shortly to really highlight the benefits of getting sunlight on the skin. And one of them is the fact that UVA is producing nitric oxide. And as anybody who's a runner will know nitric oxide really important for endurance and for cell health and arterial health, etc. But what it's also doing is it's priming the fibroblast to create more collagen

and more melanin and more protective factors that protect us from sun exposure later in the day. So one of the worst things that we can do during the summer months is stay indoors all morning and then go out and blast ourselves at midday when our skin hasn't been protected because it hasn't had the protective mechanisms put in place to prepare it for that sun exposure later. The other thing that we do, which is really bad, is we wear sunglasses. Which I do religiously. Yeah, so sunglasses. Great for glare. You know, you don't want to damage your eyes. Obviously, I'm not anti-s sunglasses. Please. believe me, you know, when you need them for glare, then that's great.

But the problem with sunglasses, when you come back to the circadian rhythm and getting that light signal going into the eyes, is if you are wearing a dark lens over your eyes, your eyes and therefore your brain thinks that it's night time. So it shuts down all the chemical signaling that we need to produce a little bit of cortisol to give us energy to create that melatonin later on in the evening to give it to good night's sleep, to create the anti-inflammatory protective mechanisms

that's going to protect the skin. If we sit in the sun wearing sunglasses, our brain is not signaling to the skin to produce anti-inflammatory compounds to protect the skin because our brain is being told that it's dark and we're indoors and therefore we don't need our skin protected. And that's what they think is one of the reasons why we can burn when we're in the sun

is because our skin isn't getting the right messaging. So for me, rather than wearing an image, SPF all the time. I prefer to sit in the shade. You know, I prefer to wear a hat and I wear a hat with the brim so it keeps the sun out of my eyes. I tend not to wear sunglasses unless I'm driving or unless it's, you know, not safe to do so. If there's a woman listening today and a lot of what we described is all too familiar for her, but her disposable income is not endless and maybe is limited, what are the three things that you would advise her to do to try and make herself feel a bit better. Got to be daylight. I mean literally get outside. That is really, really simple. Just

just two words. Go outside. It's free. It's easy. We can all do it. You know, it's very easy to say, oh, it's so complicated. You know, I did an interview for a magazine, and I just knew when the interviewer met me that she was going to be tricky. It was going to be difficult. And she just said, she wasn't feeling well actually so i said okay let's open a window let's get some light in here and she said oh you know one of the problems with you know people like you is that everything is just so complicated and so time consuming and so expensive i said okay i've just opened the window how long did that take how much did it cost oh well it's probably not going to make any difference and then after about half and i said do you know i actually feel quite a lot better now sitting by this

open window i said you know these are little things so please just go outside get some day like if you can take your shoes and socks off great you know you don't have to but try it don't knock it until you've tried it don't forget to stay hydrated put that little pinch of sea salt in your water make sure that you drink that before you drink your tea and coffee and crack on with the day practice gratitude keep a little journal just you know before you go to bed at night just write down the three great things that you've enjoyed that day could be something as really simple as having a nice text message from a friend or a hug from somebody or, you know, appreciating the beauty of, you know, some new blooms that you see on your way to work or whatever. Or it could be something

major that's happened in your life that you're grateful for. But that puts positive thoughts in your head before you go to sleep. Try and prioritize sleep. Sleep is a superpower. You know, it's really important that you sleep well. It's when we do all our repair work, our cells repair themselves. We cannot function without sleep. So if you can try, bring your bedtime and little bit earlier so that you can then get up a little bit earlier and do what you can to make your bedroom cool to have it dark if you can't get blackout blinds or dark just have a really simple eye shade to keep it dark maybe have a pair of earplugs to block out that noise so that you're getting a better night sleep you could try a bit of magnesium at glycinate at night it's a really

easy cheap supplement that can really help with people getting a better night's sleep so prioritising those things. Light water, sleep, it's not complicated and I think once you start to do that, you start to feel better, you then become more motivated to wanting to do other things like the strength training, the exercise, the movement. Thank you for coming in firstly. There was so much more I wanted to dig into and we really don't have times of people need to read your book because I wanted to speak to you about your thoughts about water or about loneliness and social networks and more about nutrition and we could sit here for four hours and do a huberman type podcast that goes on and on and on. But we simply don't have time.

But before I let you go, we have some quickfire questions which we ask all our guests. I have invited myself to yours for dinner. What are you going to cook me? Anytime. I'd probably do you, I might do you a spag bowl, but I would probably do you a slow roast shoulder of lamb, assuming that you eat meat. I do with meat. Excellent. And then I would make you a plum crumble with lashings of kaffir.

Lovely. That's nice. It's making me really hungry thinking about it now. And it's a very sort of autumnal winter meal, which I'm desperate for. I'm waiting for the autumn and winter to appear. I'm over this summer. So. Yeah.

Yeah, let's move on. You will go into a desert island for 12 months and you can take one thing. What would you take? I would take my, assuming I've got like access to a kettle and things like. that. I'm not so sure. No, there's not many of those on desert islands, are they? No. Okay. All right. Well, I guess I'll boil water somehow with a, I don't know, a desalinator. I mean, I could be really practical and said. I'd like a desalinator, but I guess that's a cheat. I would take my little bag of all my coffee goodies to make a fat coffee in the morning with my shillazette and my creatine and my keto powder because that would just set me up for the rest of the day so I could go fishing and stuff. Coffee or wine, one for the rest of your life? What would it be? That's really mean

I know because you like a glass of wine Don't you? I do like a glass of wine You like your coffee Your fat coffee So tough choice here If it's only one Then it's got to be coffee

Because then I'll just switch to tequila That's the first time Most people say coffee But oh no I'm going to be virtuous And say coffee No one has said Brian

I'm going to have a margarita After You didn't say no alcohol What's the last thing That made you belly love? Just that, really. And the last question, but I feel you've already answered it. What's one thing someone listening today can do to make themselves feel a little bit better?

Yeah, get up and get outside. Yes. Enjoy, even in the rain. Go for a run in the rain. Oh my gosh. Love it in the rain. Liz, thank you so much. I thoroughly enjoyed that.

Thank you for having me. And congratulations on your woman self-cover. Thank you. Thank you. Everyone will agree with us that it looks fabulous. And, yeah, please do come in and see us again. Love to. Thank you.

Thank you.