Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Menopause and ADHD: Understanding Midlife Brain Fog, Anxiety and Focus

Episode Date: January 20, 2026

Why does ADHD feel harder during perimenopause and menopause — and why does your brain suddenly feel so different? In this episode of Just As Well, Claire Sanderson and Gemma Atkinson are joined by menopause expert and Owning Your Menopause founder Kate Rowe-Ham to unpack how hormonal changes can amplify ADHD traits, brain fog, anxiety, overwhelm and emotional dysregulation in midlife. Kate shares her own late ADHD diagnosis alongside her experience of perimenopause, explaining why so many women feel dismissed, misdiagnosed or told they’re “just stressed” during this stage of life. Together, they explore the overlap between menopause, mental load and neurodiversity — and why understanding what’s happening in your body and brain is key to advocating for yourself. You’ll also hear practical, accessible advice on what actually helps: from tracking symptoms and navigating support, to lifestyle foundations like movement, strength training, nutrition and daily habits that support focus, mood and long-term health. Whether you’re in your late 30s, deep in perimenopause or post-menopause — and especially if you’re questioning ADHD or struggling to cope — this conversation will help you feel informed, validated and far less alone. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Adobe Acrobat Studio, your new foundation. Use PDF spaces to generate a presentation. Grab your docks, your permits, your moves. AI levels of your pitch, gets it in a groove. Choose a template with your timeless cools those two. Drive design, deliver, make it sing. AI builds the deck so you can build that thing. Learn more at Adobe.com slash do that with Acrobat.

At Desjardin Insurance, we know that when you own a nail salon, everything needs to be perfect from tip to toe. That's why our agents go the extra mile to understand your business and provide tailored solutions for all its unique needs. You put your heart into your company, so we put our heart into making sure it's protected. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Dejardin.com slash business coverage.

Hi, I'm Gem Atkinson. And I'm Claire Sanderson, the editor-in-chief of Women's Health UK. We have just interviewed Kate Roham for Just as well. Kate is a menopause expert. She is the queen of menopause, I think. What she just told us was fascinating. Yes, so she is the founder of owning your menopause, which is a training platform and an information platform. She works in Menopause matters, which lobbies government to enact change to benefit women across the country. And yeah, it was a really, really interesting chat. I didn't realize. Kate mentioned that. women weren't used in terms of like clinical studies until 1993 so way before that all these studies for menopause for women's health wasn't done on women well they just weren't done at all it's it's madness and and her herself along with people like Divinia McCall they're changing things so incredibly and the work they have done in just the short amount of time you

know she spoke about how you know perimenopause and menopause people just think it's hot flashes and period changes, that's not it. And it came from her personal experience of severe heart palpitations, hot flushes, nausea. She said at one point she felt like she was dying, literally, and they were all a combination of perimenopausal symptoms that were overlooked. And she was gaslit when she first went to her GP. It took her three visits to the GP to finally get diagnosed, and even then she had to go private to get hold of her HRT. I have a very very similar experience when I first presented to my doctors when I was about 41 with the symptoms I was experiencing I was told I was too young to be having perimenopausal

symptoms and I now know that's not true and I wasn't becoming depressed again I had perimenopausal symptoms so I have a very similar experience to Kate and unfortunately our combined experience are not unusual at all it's happening to women up and down the country so she empowers us to advocate for ourselves when we do go and speak to the medical profession because these GPs as brilliant as they are they many of them have not done match training at all in the menopause space said like an hour didn't they yeah in their entire career and even then they have 10 minutes to see you which is not a very long time to really get under the skin of of how you're feeling so

she equips us with the um the knowledge to be able to present the salient information that can get you the outcome that you require. And as always, if you listen to this set, which we hope you do, if you enjoy it, if you know anyone who is, in fact, if you've got a female in your family, your mum, your sister, your aunt, your cousins, your daughters, your partners, this episode genuinely is a must listen for anyone because if you're living with a female or you are a female, you will take something from this. So as always, please like, please subscribe, please share far and wide. This is just as well with Kate Roham.

So half the population will go through menopause. So why does finding good information about the menopause feel like searching for buried treasure? Kate Roham has asked that question and she spent the next several years answering it. She's the founder of owning your menopause. She is a patron for menopause mandate. And she's one of the most effective advocates for women's health in the UK right now. Kate's combining personal training, nutrition science and policy advocacy to change how we think and support women through the menopause. Today we're getting into the practical stuff.

So we're going to discuss what to eat, how to train and why your future self will thank you for starting now. Kate Roham, let's talk about owning your menopause. Thank you for joining us. What was it that made you want to scream from the rooftops about women's menopause and perimenopause? Yeah, great question. It was my own terrible, terrible experience of perimenopause, not understanding what was happening. I was very fearful of the symptoms that I had. I actually thought on many occasions that I was dying.

And I know that my story is not unfamiliar. There are so many women that I speak to or, you know, we're speaking to on a daily basis, who have experienced that same thing. And for me, it was the heart palpitations. it was the breathlessness. And I even talk about it in my first book. I sat on the edge of my bed. And I would say to my husband, two or three times a week,

if I don't wake up in the morning, tell them it was my heart. Because I actually really thought that something horrific was happening. I had no understanding of it. I'd spoken to a lot of friends, I guess, about some of the symptoms I was having. A lot of them, you know, nobody mentioned menopause. And I do remember on one or two occasions, may be mentioning it and they all told me that I was I was too young that it wasn't that and even when I was reaching out to my GP they diagnosed me with depression they thought that I might even have

asthma at one point with that breathlessness and so they didn't even have an understanding of it and it was a truly truly terrifying time I have a daughter I didn't want her experience to be my experience and so I felt like I wanted to speak up I guess I had this you know, many platform already on Instagram that I'd shared and talked about training with children. And I guess as I grew older, that grew with me. And it was a perfect opportunity to be able to share, you know, my own perimenopause journey, experience, what I've done to, I guess, to transform that. But it was all, yeah, it all kind of has happened from just having a really, really bad experience

myself. Because I think people, myself included, naïve, assume that when you start perimenopause or menopause the only thing that happens is your periods change and then stop but those symptoms you've described the you know the anxiety I've had if I'm away from home in a hotel on my own sometimes I think oh my gosh and I get a bit and I've never had that in my life ever you know I used to travel all over the place no problems but and I thought oh it's maybe since having kids you know you don't like being away from home

but it could be the build-up of things happening but we're just taught you'll get hot flushes and your periods will stop that's it yeah and actually to know what it's a it's a good point you raised with some women still when I'm talking to them they'll be like when I'm having my periods or my periods are still regular so like on the other flip side of that is you still can have a regular cycle and be in perimenopause so it is so confusing and I think the best thing that women can do is from the age of 30 or you know as soon as possible start tracking start tracking your cycles you

your symptoms, your moods, like kind of what happens with that? Is it heavier? Are they further apart? And build up a really good picture of what your body's doing. Because I think, again, we look to other people to kind of give us the answers and your journey in perimenopoles, Claire's journey, mine, they're all going to be unique to us. And like I said, with the heart palpitations, the breathlessness, you know, that wasn't on the radar. Like you said, it's hot flushes, changing periods. And we now know that depression is or anxiety is, really right up at the top but again I think where the confusion comes in is that for most women who hit midlife we are juggling kids you know empty-n-death

syndrome they might be going after school or for some of us who have had kids later in life you know you're you're more tired when you've got your children that's natural and then you're caring for sick or elderly parents and so it's is it menopause or is it mental load is it life and again I think we get very gaslit by medical professionals not you know that's quite a sweeping statement but on the whole because it does menopause does coincide or premenopause coincides with such a huge life transition and it can start younger than a lot of people assume as well the

number of times I said to Gemma yes I think it's perimenopause when you've mentioned various symptoms that she's experiencing and you're 41 and from my own experience in hindsight I started experiencing symptoms when I was 39 and I had my youngest when I was 37 so not very long after I stopped being pregnant I started experiencing symptoms and I remember a doctor friend saying to me you are describing the perimenopause I've never even heard the word at the time and this was eight years ago and I remember going to the GP and being sent away and being told I was too young and by the time I was 41 I'd managed to get HRD provided privately but my experience is not unique it's common that women

present two GPs and get fobbed off and get told I thought I had depression again I have a history of depression I thought I was depressed again but it's not it was it was the perimenopause and in hindsight when I join all the dots you know the periods that got heavier or more irregular the the the low mood the increased anxiety I was getting hot sweats I was waking up in a bed sometimes that was absolutely soaking yeah yeah from from your age or younger so and women are surprised that you can have these symptoms in your late 30s and the thing about that as well is you know we've talked about the other impact but the impact on relationships as well because like those those t-shirt changing night sweats as I like

to describe them you know you're not kind of like getting into bed and thinking whoa and then you know your relationships kind of just like And I think sometimes men think, well, it's me. And it's like, it's not you, this is me and I need to. And I think that's where, again, if we can break down the stigma and the taboo and have, like, open honest conversations with friends and with partners, and if we understand what's going on, it can save a lot of angst kind of in that role. But, like, to your point, you know, you being 41, Gemma,

like the average age of menopause is 51. So it makes perfect sense for people to be experiencing symptoms, you know, their sort of late 30s, early 40s. And we know that, you know, doctors only have an hour of training in menopause in the whole of their seven-year career. So it's, it's a wonder. I was gonna ask, why do you think it's so overlooked and there's so little information, but you've just answered it.

Yeah, well, I mean, women's health in itself, you know, clinical, we didn't, we weren't included in clinical trials on 1993. So we are. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I know, it's terrifying, isn't it? insane isn't it and it makes me I feel now sorry for like my nana and grandma because I bet people thought they were going insane and they were just going through the transition in the body that's completely normal yeah it's natural and like you say it was over overlooked for them well it was shrouded in secrecy as well it was called change you know yeah the change it wasn't they certainly didn't proudly talk about going through the menopause because they felt it aged them and generations ago we weren't aging with power and aging proudly we were aging with shame because it was seen as something negative and a decline and you just disappear from society almost as a woman over the age of 40, 45. And we do disappear, you're right. Yeah, not anymore, but I think historically we did.

I watched, there's a comedy drama running on Netflix at the moment and it's from the early naughties with Caroline Quentin called Live Again or Life, Life Begins, Life Begins. and she talks so disparagingly and negative about being old and she's over the over the cliff and she doesn't want sex she's 39 wow oh my god this was just 2004 yeah and she was talking about a 39 in in the most negative manner so and 2004 feels like yesterday for me you know I can't believe it's I think the 80s was 20 years ago when I was born in 84 and I think it was about 20 years ago and I'm like no it's not no no so long ago so I think when you look back

at our parents generations they didn't talk about it they didn't share the knowledge didn't pass it down to us you know so I I know very little about my mother's menopause journey because it was not anything that she ever discussed with me because it's it's this not what how families communicated and I think our generation have a duty to speak openly about it with our daughters or our nieces or our you know younger women in our life so they they go through this journey far more empowered with knowledge than than we ever started out with and our parents ever had yeah i totally agree and actually

on that as well like when you we think about those life stages like i remember being at school i don't know about you like with tampax and you'd put them in your pocket you know and you'd want to go to the loo and it'd be like going to the loo and you'd hide it or if you didn't have one and you got caught short you'd be like has anyone got a tampax and you know you'd be whispering and now from what i know you know sorry to my daughter who's just like shaming her out well i'm not shaming her I'm highlighting the fact that now what is brilliant is they just say it across a classroom with boys it doesn't matter got my period needed handpacks and that's empowering them to to own their hormonal status I think from a really young

age which then hopefully again just keeps going you know and allows them to be less fearful again when they come into to perimenopause I think it's good as well that boys get the education because we I remember when we did period talk it was PHC in school they did it with girls only so they separated the class and took the boys out to do P.E. or something and told us what will happen with the period and it's only now because I've got a daughter and a son I would want T.O. to know what happens so that if there is a time when his sister just needs a bit of time on her own or she's feeling a little bit, you know, anxious or you know even if I'm a bit ratting with him or whatever, they understand

it. They're not going to think, oh, what's, you know, and I think it's difficult when you're separating the male and females at school to talk about a subject which ultimately will impact everyone anyway you know if you have a sister or you know everyone has a mom or they're gone to get married to a woman they will experience it with them anyway what what advice would you give to to men listening who you know whose partners are going through the the depths of menopause yeah great question and actually to that kid point as well firstly like I remember and I didn't mention it it's funny when you have these conversations you remember your symptoms it kind of

seems long ago but rage was massive for me. I'm quite fiery anyway. My mom's Italian. I've got that kind of, you know, red-blooded side to me. But there were days when I would, you know, we all have them when our kids are like, can you put your shoes on? Can you put your shoes on? Can you put your shoes on? Can you put your shoes on? And then, but the red missed that, you know, when people say you see red, like, I mean, it is extraordinary the red that you see. And there were days when I would drop the kids off at school. And I would feel so guilty for the whole day that, you know, someone might have gone in in tears and then I might have left in tears because I was just so angry. But I didn't know why I was so angry. Like I felt, I felt like I was losing,

totally losing my mind because I couldn't control that anger. When I was able to talk about it and I worked out what it was and I could share that with my son, who's now 18 and my daughter who's 16 and my youngest, it felt like a huge relief. And I think they were relieved that, you know, like maybe even mom and dad weren't going to get divorced with all this shouts. in going on because my husband didn't know what was going on either. And so to your question, I guess there's kind of like there were two things to that. I do remember when I finally found out it was a relief because I thought that explains an awful lot.

The why isn't it? Yeah. But I was scared of telling my husband because kind of to Claire's point a minute ago where, you know, aging positively for women isn't something that has been spoken about. It is now. I was like, I'm going to be. switched out. You know, and as soon as you say I'm perimenopausal, um, or menopausal, you know, the images that you're like, yeah, like you're just like some shriveling up. No use to you now.

You're not. You're not. And so I thought, yeah. Um, but luckily, my husband and I are still together, he hasn't swapped me out yet. Um, and I think aging is, is a privilege, not to many. And I think that's the conversation we need to be having. I always think like with the whole swapping out thing. I've, I've said to Gorka, if you do swap before a younger person, they're still going to go through it. So you'll have to swap them for someone younger as well. You'll constantly just be swapping. So you might as well just put up with me, pal.

You know what I mean? And I do think that is the point. Like it is hopefully, you know, a lot of my friends who are now post-menopause, they have said like now everything is much more stable and it's better. And so I think have those conversations and just say, you know, just give me that time to go through this,

support me through this, because we've got really good times ahead. Yeah. Because the divorce rate is higher for women at this age, isn't it? Yeah. And my understanding is that a percentage of them then voice regret once they come out to the other side and look back and realize the situation they're in now. And if only they'd worked out a way to navigate the choppy waters of the menopause. The grass is not always greener.

The grass is not always greener. Or it is greener, but that's because it's fake. Do you know what I mean? It's greener on the other side, but because it's fake. You're a patron as well for menopause mandate. Tell us about that. So menopause mandate is a great charity that was sort of put together by

Carolyn Harris, Laura Biggs, Mario LaFrostrop, Davina McCall is a patron. I'm trying to think of all the patrons. But they've basically got a lot of advocates as well. And there are other amazing people out there that I would hate to ever forget in this conversation like Diane Danzabrink, who sort of started Menopause Matters as well.

works alongside menopause mandate. So there's lots of kind of people trying to make change. But menopause mandate have really, with Carolyn Harris, who is a force to be reckoned with, are beginning to make huge amounts of change. One of their biggest things was making sure that menopause was included in education. That has happened. And again, I think that was very much due to the likes of Diane Danzabrink too. But what they have been working on recently in their least,

latest campaign has been getting menopause mentioned in your 40 plus check because currently it isn't I mean I'm still waiting to be invited for my 40 plus check and I'm almost 50 so I don't think I have no so yeah so they do not mention menopause so if for instance you know a woman in her 40s went and had the check and they said if you start looking out for changes in your period hot flushes mood swings low mood, you know, all of these things, it could be your menopause. By planting that seed, you know, hopefully it educates women a bit more. But even having, like, even in my GP surgery now, and I've been in so many times, they still don't have anything on the wall, you know, where you're waiting in the surgery, talking about menopause. So it's really important. And we

recently had a survey. We have taken those results to Parliament for Menopause Awareness Day. and we are waiting to hear, if anything, kind of, has unfolded with that. But the survey is done by 15,000 women, 40% of women leave their jobs. And actually, when it came to exercise, only 44% of women are lifting weights. I know we'll come onto that, which is better than the 31% from the last survey. But it's asking real women and getting that data and then presenting that data and using it. And that's what Menopause mandate are doing. They are a force.

We are all a force combined in driving change. for women. Yes, it's power in numbers. I mean, I had my 40 year check, but thinking about it, I wasn't asked anything about menopause. And when I mentioned, you know, a few things that were going on, I was told, oh, you've got a while yet. What, you've got a while yet. You see, that's terrifying because also women. It's age discrimination. South East Asian communities, women of color, they are likely to menopause from about the age of 35 with different symptoms. So it, this, I mean, I think we need to start talking about it as early as 30s, really, because preparation is key to all of it, to managing it, to understanding it and to not being afraid. And sometimes I think 35 is too late for a lot of things.

So I think the earlier, the better. But, you know, case in point, sorry to your 40th check, you didn't, you wasn't flagged. So you go away thinking, oh, if it's not that, then, well, what's wrong with me? Yeah. Yeah, because I've left thinking, I must be depressed then. And what, I mean, treatment wise, there's, we've all heard of HRT. Some people say you need to exercise more. What's the, it's different for everybody, isn't it?

So what do women, what are we supposed to do to help ease the symptoms? Yeah, there's no magic, magic fix. And I know we've been talking about this before. I eventually got my HRT. I had to go privately to get it, which I really don't like, because I think that menopause seems like a privilege to a lot of people at the moment if you can get your HRT and you can get the help and whilst I want to help those women for me I really want to reach people that that probably

need more who might have more on their plate who need help understanding it and sorry for being my ignorance was it not on you don't get HRT on the NRA. Well you yes you can right but if you are waiting for your appointment for six months to seven months if you haven't been diagnosed you know I went to my GP three times and I still wasn't diagnosed and So then I reached out to someone said, you know, see someone private. So I spent the money on seeing someone private who said it was definitely perimenopause. So it was the wait time. So it was the wait time.

So I would say that HRT is great for those that can and they want to and they've done their research and it feels safe for them. You know, the benefits do outweigh the risks. I know that obviously the 2002 Women's Health Initiative survey put a lot of women off HRT for reasons of breast cancer. But we know or we now know that those are the old. styles of HRT, you've got more risk of getting breast cancer from drinking and other cancers from being overweight, but still women are really, really fearful of taking it. And that is absolutely a journey that everyone has to go on. But the one thing that we can all do and we all have access to immediately is to move our bodies and eat well. And that for me is the most underserved

part and message of managing menopause at the moment. And it truly scares me. me because that was what was transformational for me and that was where I created obviously the whole thing of owning a menopause I got my HRT I actually looked at it for three months before I took it because I was still convinced I wasn't so for those who don't know in layman's terms it's hormone replacement therapy so it's essentially is it putting the estrogen back in the body so there's two there's a few little bits to it if you have got a womb and you start taking estrogen you need to make sure that you're taking progesterine alongside

if you've had a hysterectomy or you don't have a womb you do not necessarily don't need progesterone you will just need estrogen and then obviously testosterone does decline as well and for some women testosterone can also help but there does still need to be a little bit more research I think behind behind the testosterone yeah and you can't necessarily get testosterone on the NHS either you still can't get on the NHS well you can but it's it's a it's a man testosterone. Yes, a man walks into a GP surgery and says I've lost my libido, I'll prescribe him testosterone. But if a woman goes in and says I want testosterone as part of my HRT protocol, it's

very difficult to access on the NHS. So you have to pay for it private. And it comes in like a sash that you only need like one or two doses from. So then you've got to leave your kind of like sashay at the side, you know, and it just is not that that's a problem. But it, you know, it's just a fath, isn't it? It's a fat, an unnecessary fath. Yeah. But obviously, alongside the lifestyle changes, it won't work. I mean, I think that that is the thing that I have to say,

and I do know that some women have taken it, and they're like, it's helped me exercise, and I would never want to be dismissive of those people who, because it is worth saying, some people can't put one foot in front of the other when they have got such crippling menopause symptoms, joint aches and pains, muscle aches and pains. And the HRT can help,

them to get moving but if you are struggling to to get that HRT at the moment or you're waiting for your GP appointment go out for a walk 10 minutes each day just start moving your body because the benefits are transformational is there still HRT shortages there was at one point is it now more broadly available or is it still a bit of a lottery where you can access I think it's more broadly available it's definitely a lottery postcode lottery in terms of kind of I guess getting the appointment and then certain ones run out more than others and it's mostly the patches I think that people seem to to struggle to get hold of there are always ways again of you know combating that you will be recommended something else by your GP but for some women

that doesn't necessarily work and also you feel uncomfortable right if you found something that works and you're settled in it you don't necessarily then want to change you want to change change. But I think in terms of supply and demand, it is getting better. I think the Devena effect has, which was obviously when DeVina started talking about H.R.T. has slightly calmed down a little bit. And so the supply is, you know, reaching demand a little bit more. So I think that women should be fine on that. But I do know recently there was something with the progesterone tablets that the brand had changed and wasn't quite working the same way as the others. So I would like to stress, you asked Mulea, Gemma,

does HRT work I've been on HRT for seven years now and I described it as I just get on with life it's it's not some magic silver bullet you know I don't know any apart from you I don't know anyone who has it in my family that's why I was asking like I just it my life is on HRT that's all I can describe but I exercise I've got the energy to lift weights and I walk everywhere and I eat well so I do everything else the combination of yeah but I just and it is part of my daily routine. I did have the patches but I was fed up with the marks it was leaving on my bank.

Like me. So. It's the gel. So now I'm back on the gel. But it's just as putting my moisturiser as part of my morning routine rubbing the gel on my eyes. Would you ever come off it gradually or would you how long do you recommend it to stay on it for?

You can take for as long as you want. Yeah. It's a bit old, out of date research in that you should only take it for a certain amount of time because more recent research is saying that it is not national for women to live without hormones and that you can take it forever. I don't take particularly high dose. So I do try and keep the dose as low as low as keeps me on an even keel. My mother had breast cancer younger than me. So I am one of the women who had that to consider. But through

my research on woman's health and just generally being very interested in science, like Kate said, the contributory factors towards breast cancer are far more weighted towards if you smoke, if you drink loads, if you're obese. What do you do for your progesterone? May I ask? So I have the Marina coil. Yeah, same as me, yeah, okay. But I am struggling to get it replaced.

And this goes back to the whole access on the NHS question. It was due to be replaced last month. And I can't for love no money, even though since trying since July to get it replaced. Are you having any extra progester? Well, I'm not now. And it was, I'm now worried about using the estrogen. Yeah. Because if you use estrogen without the progesterone,

it can increase the thickening of your womb lining and therefore could potentially become cancerous. So it's very important that you have the progesterone. To balance it out, yeah. But, yeah, as I say, it was, it was always in my diary to get it replaced in October. I had, you know, they told me years ago, and I put it in my diary.

Since July, I've been trying to get an appointment to get it replaced. to the point where I'm very lucky I've access to private health care through my husband's work so I'm now exploring that avenue but then I shouldn't have to do that you know it's to have and have not again and the socioeconomic differences to access to health care because it's life it is life changing for so many women like it'll affect you work it's not just how it affects you personally but professionally I mean you mentioned achy joints and stuff I sometimes it's my calves I sometimes feel that like I've been walking in high heels all day. I get in bed and it's almost like a tingly feeling like I feel like and I think to myself could that be you know everything's a little bit more achy. It just takes a little bit longer like we really really need to stretch like I've always been so bad at stretching. I'm just like get the workout done and now I have realized that just is not going to work and I still love running you know I've got a few challenges next year doing the London Marathon did a half marathon two weeks ago

but I need to stretch and I need to warm up and like I walked for two miles before I did the half marathon because my body needs that just like lubrication like that movement before it gets going otherwise I you pay for it and I just I think that that is the thing it's just making sure you you warm up and cool down and it's hard when you push for time I sleep on a I have a grounding sheet on my bed and I sleep I sleep on that and the first time I used it everything was tingling in my body and it says it's helping rid the inflammation and all this stuff and then as your body gets used to it it dies off a bit and it's only recently when I go to bed at night I can feel the mat working around my ankles and around that so I think that's

where I have the inflammation and stuff and I stopped stretching as often as I should have done and it's just little things you can't get away with now like what's a grounding sheet so it's true like when they say if you walk outside bare feet it's grounding you're connecting to the magnetic field and it's really good for you. I've got a red light mat. Yeah, it's similar. You'd love a grounding mat. You just put it underneath your bed, your mattress, you fitted sheet on your mattress. That's another thing I do. I'll get my words mixed up. And you just go to sleep on it. And it's really good. It's basically, it's to do with the earth magnetic field and you're going back to nature and do you only say walk barefoot outside

class? It will get you one. Honestly, since I've had mine, my recovery on my sleep has been incredible and you do feel like it's tingling you feel your body tingling when you use it for the first few times because it is my motto in life do as jemma does yeah because she comes out with all these weird and wonderful things right so there you're trying to send her one so i'm going to add it to my list but i was going to say like with your with the with the recovery thing as well i think that um so many women when they do get to this live stage they panic about everything that is happening whether that is the weight gain you go back and forward yeah so they don't then eat enough or they don't do all of the other bits around to help with the recovery. So you've got a depleted body.

It's, you know, estrogen deficient. Eastergian is an anti-inflammatory. And so everything just takes that little bit longer. And if you're then stripping it back of more things that help with recovery, it's no wonder that we do experience more kind of joint aches and pains. And on top of going through all this with the work you've been doing, the menopause, being a full-time mom and a partner, you've been open recently about your ADHD diagnosis as an adult. Yeah. So again, that took its time in getting that diagnosis. Yeah.

I mean, do you know what? I, do I get emotional about now saying that I am ADHD? I've known I as ADHD for quite a long time. And it was actually my son getting diagnosed that enabled me to have my confirmation of ADHD because I noticed everything that he was doing was what I did. I think the hardest part was the masking that I'd done all my life, like as a young girl. And I think that this is the thing for so many women that upsets me the most is that

girls were really good at masking. We're really good at masking most things, whether that's, you know, ADHD, depression, whatever it is. We're incredibly, you know, women are amazing, basically. Put your face on and get on with it. You face on and you get on with it. And my school years were very interesting. I was always told I was too much.

I was too loud. I was stupid. I didn't concentrate. I didn't do brilliantly at school. You know, I flunked my A levels. But when you've had the narrative for your whole life that you're stupid and you're not worthy and you're not good enough, like even now, like being in this space and coming into this sort of women's health world, you know, I find really overwhelming because my. brain is like how are you here doing that when you weren't worth very much growing up so it's it's really I think when I found out that it was ADHD and that it wasn't that I was stupid and it wasn't that I was

noisy and it wasn't that I was disruptive that's allowed me to grow more I think now doing what I'm doing because I have accepted myself and I've forgiven I don't I don't even need to forgive my younger self because she didn't do anything wrong she just didn't know so I think that that has yeah me to to own it and you know not make apologies for who I am I'm always the person that will say the wrong thing at the wrong time it just just comes out you know and someone will be having a conversation about something and I'll just totally change it and I always was aware of that but I didn't know why and I think it's again isn't it it's education it's understanding if you know what is going on and you know why

you're doing that you're not afraid of it and so I really have my sons back I think when it comes to everything because he's got quite high functioning ADHD and I will do everything in my power to make sure that he never feels stupid and it is it is a superpower like I can do so many things and yes sometimes it's overwhelming but like I love I love that side of it like the ideas and I think I'm an empath because of it like I and I love people and I love talking And so I feel I feel like it is a superpower now maybe not growing up Yeah, we had Davinia Taylor on and she said me yeah because she's a hugely successful businesswoman she's got four boys and I was like how do you do it all

and she went it's me ADHD yeah I can do anything it is and we can and it is it's most most very sweeping statement but most successful women or entrepreneurs you know might have like that side to them because you can do a lot. I mean I don't take medication. My son doesn't take medication. We've just chosen not to for now and it can be managed and again protein exercise, mindfulness, you know, all the things that we should all be doing anyway and I think that's possibly why I've got to where I am managing it through menopause is because I've focused so heavily on those three pillars managing my perimenopause

it's sort of had a knock on effect on managing ADHD. I can imagine that's like a holy cauldron of chaos though. So we're having ADHD symptoms and perimenopause thrown in. Whilst being a mum. Whilst being a mum. Yeah, it is huge. And actually, Rupert also has a rare genetic lung condition. So we have to do physio like with him twice a day and go to the hospital a lot.

So like there is, it's just a melee of a melee of man. madness, but I do think there was a time, actually, it was when my dad was really, really ill as well, when I was probably really unhinged, I think, with the ADHD, with the perimenopause, with his illness. And I was, I was pretty much on the floor, I would say, but I was still doing all the right things. Now, I hate to think if I wasn't doing any of the things that I'd already got where I would be. So I kind of think although I didn't necessarily have clarity that it was ADHD, I knew it was premenopause. Just kind of having those pillars has served a huge purpose. And yeah, I mean, it was, it was carnage, you know, and I think behind the scenes when I look back, you're like, wow, how did how did you get through? But you do, and I think, you know, you do for your kids and I think you do for those around you. and yeah like now I feel very I feel very grounded I feel like I'm in a great place you know obviously getting through all of that my dad is no longer here but I don't you know that that was a

huge I guess relief if I say it in that way like I'm gutted he's not here and I miss him but I was 18 months as a carer wasn't it takes a huge toll on the family with all of those things so you know things come and they go but I think if you've got yeah if you've got that grounding and you've got those foundations you can get through and I think the biggest thing in all of that is sharing as well with people around you and talking about it and being open never be embarrassed or ashamed of of having ADHD of going through perimenopause of having depression of you know having a heavy period like all of those things that women have been told not to talk about and

to shrink themselves for we are all we are all going to go through it we all have been through or we all understand in some way so just talk and share I hear Sarah Pascal speak recently on a podcast about ADHD, all the guests, I can't remember the actual name, but all the guests had ADHD and she herself and she said, she described it as everyone has to do lists that they have to do, but people who are neurotypical can generally prioritize that list and know what needs to be done first and then work down. She said when you have ADHD, everything is as loud as each other and it could be go for your smear or buy stamps but to her they're equally as important and you're trying to achieve it all and she she struggles to

to I don't know if she used the smear example she definitely used the stamps but she said some other sort of you know very life important and responsibility and I was thinking goodness me she is just women in our 40s the battleground years 40s and beyond we have so many things that needs to be done you know the the kids the work the the aging parents and having to navigate all of that when your brain doesn't allow you to prioritize yet there are so many women now being diagnosed with ADHD in later life isn't there they seems it seems to be all the more common yeah it is and I do worry sometimes that it's sort of you know not misdiagnosed but it's not diagnosed correctly and I think it's really important to do so and Mel Robbins did a

great podcast with Dr. Chris Palmer and they were talking about how you know generally you will know if you've got ADHD really before the age of kind of 12 because it would have manifested in in those early years in school so to kind of go back to look at your reports but I do think to that point there is you know is it ADHD again like we said is it ADHD is it perimenopause is it is it the mental load because like you say we are dealing with so much so it does become chaotic but like i have friends who they they can manage it all seamlessly and i suppose you know they they still might have ADHD they might not i think we have to be so careful um with it but i think yes a lot of women did mask it or a lot of people did mask it which is why we are seeing more diagnosis of it and

women stepping into their power and owning it you know which and and again not being um yeah not being afraid of getting a diagnosis, I suppose. But I do worry sometimes that, you know, you have those conversations and people are, oh yeah, I am or I think I am. And I think we have to be careful that we address the issue that is going on. And don't just label it without making sure it's not something else, I suppose. Yeah. With kids, though, as well, obviously, now I'm a mom, I pay a lot more attention to things and like when I was in school I can pinpoint now friends that I went to school with who have ADHD but in school they were just classed as naughty yeah and I think if that was my son or daughter just being told they're the naughty ones they're the disruptive ones

when you know as a parent actually know there's something else going on it'd be it'd be heartbreaking for me and I and I also think as well you know kids deal with things differently there's a whole analysis in there where there's a tree and you've got a monkey a giraffe an elephant and a frog and their homework is to climb the tree you know the monkey will do it no problem the elephant and giraffe and never ever going to be able to do it the frog probably get there but he'll really really struggle yeah but you're expecting all of them to climb the tree and those that don't have failed yeah so the monkey is the only one

who's going to pass the rest are going to feel like shit because they didn't do it and that's sometimes I think the issue with with certain not all schools but a lot of schools whereby that's the outlook on all the pupils and those who maybe are suffering with the ADHD diagnosis are the ones that are pushed to the side because they're the naughty ones yeah leave them be how did you as a parent get there's be the support for your son but also the voice for your son in that listen this is what's happening this is the route we're going down because there'll be parents listening who probably thinking my child maybe they might not be what what what should they do yeah i've been really lucky actually the school have been

amazing. Rupert has a wobbly stool in class because he just has to move the whole time. So they have put things into place. Again, to get a diagnosis on the NHS, there is a wait list of about a year. Longer in some places. Longer in some places. So I think that that is again really hard. I would say if you think your child has ADHD, start looking at the lifestyle changes, screen time, food, sugar, protein, you know, fibre, because your gut health is massively important when it comes to things like that as well. And start trying to manage it that way. There are little things you can do, you know, at bedtime. I mean, I have to lie with Rupert every night for about 20 minutes, which we're trying not to do, but I'm his security, I'm his comfort. And so I just want him to

sleep. Otherwise, he's there, you know, kicking. And then I think the other thing for people that have older children, which was one of the ways, again, it manifested in me was a very addictive personality. So if you've got teens, you know, look out for things like that. I mean, I know all teenagers at some point maybe go through that, but the dopamine, like, I'm, I was always that person. I don't regret any of it. Just saying that, you know, wanted that dopamine hit and was like the last man standing at any party, probably the one that woke up the next day going, oh, not great. But again, that's, looking back on that has now allowed me to make those lifestyle changes. But I don't really drink now because I can't because it just, it's the dopamine.

It will just, it's just not good for me. And so I just think, yes, like looking, looking around and making the changes that you can today whilst you're waiting for treatment. So let's go back to the menopause, which is the primary reason why we got you on you today, Kate. You're a qualified PT. you launched Own Your Menopause. Is it owning or owning? Owning. Owning.

Sorry, owning your menopause. So let's end with some real practical advice to women listening today that they can go away and utilize to make them feel better today, tomorrow and going forward. You're a big advocate for lifting weights. But then you just mentioned that you're running half marathons. And I know you've tried to get me to do a high rocks with you. I've declined. Gemma, fancy. I'm doing it.

I'm doing it in Manchester at the end of January. Can't support me. If I could do a high rocks without the running, I would be there. Everyone says that. But when it comes to the running, I am the giraffe trying to climb a tree when it comes to running. I would do it if it wasn't for the running. We've discussed this at length, and I'm just not. But you still do love cardio then, but you are a big proponent for lifting weights.

So let's get into the nuts and bolts of how women ideally should be training at this time of life to benefit themselves today, but also for future proof for longevity. Yeah, and I never, you know, I'd never like to make it complicated because I think on social media there's so much there that goes into, into depth and people just like, I can't take this. But essentially, estrogen has a protective role on your heart, on your bones, on your muscle, on your brain. And so as we go through menopause and that is declining,

we need to start thinking about how we can support our muscle, our bone. And again, that is obviously movement and exercise. but strength training in particular because as soon as we put a little bit of a stress or we challenge the bone we challenge the muscle we start building it so from from the age of 30 our bone densities at its peak and actually I spoke to a professor recently who said it's younger than 30 so everything we are doing is about maintaining and building and it is a question that I get asked a lot you know is pilates enough is yoga enough and it's not it's a brilliant compliment on site for strep for recovery for all of those things for balance and for stability but but weight lifting you know weightlifting I've made it sound again terrifying lifting weights helps with all of that to the balance you know muscle is the key to longevity you know dr. Stacy Sims talks about it love love what she says in a very she goes into so much detail but we need muscle in order to help us live a longer

life get up and down reach into cupboards all of those sorts of things. So that is why I absolutely, I mean I love strength training. I know you love strength training and I love what you do because you're encouraging that generation below, I think, to start early. I mean, you're not a generation below, but you know, from our 30s, we really need to be thinking about lifting weights and to not be afraid of it. And to your point in running, because I lift weights, I'm running better than I've ever run before and faster. And faster, I mean my actually that

well yeah my half-maxman was 144 that's amazing and I'm hoping to go for three recently like two weeks ago wow

my PB at a time when I was really fit I'm not saying you're not really fit but I was much younger was 142 and I at the time I was

doing triathlons for fun so 144 but this is why this is why like aging age is just a number in my book like I

it is not going to determine anything I'm doing. Actually next year being 50 I've got the high rocks I've got the London I'm doing an ultramarathen in Kenya and to be confirmed and I'm waiting to hear as a leg of the swimming and leg of the channel as a team of full

because I'm just like whatever that's the thing you don't slow down because you age you age because you slow down yeah I'm a big believer in that and I I just feel like with with Oinopause with whatever it is I don't whether you work out with me whether you work out with anybody, just do it and gift yourself that joy of lifting weights.

I used to hate upper body and now I love it and actually I train in the only menopause that the women do upper body on a Monday because I actually look forward to now training on a Monday and I love the fact that that, you know, that I'm strong and I trained for so many years to be thin that I have loved flipping the switch on that and I think that that is what happens with the women that I work with now is that they've all kind of come from that, you know, exercise to shrink yourself, like running. Used to be, I was like, I have to run, I have to run, I have to run. And now I was running, bumped into someone I ran the half and they were like, where's your

watch? I was like, what do you mean, where's my watch? They're like, are you not like, you know, for time? And I was like, no, I've come here to run. I just want to do it. And I want to move my body because I can. And I want to move my body for fun instead of just always going, I've got to get it done and put a P.B on myself.

And I think that that is, you know, that again is the wonderful thing about whether it's running, but again about like lifting weights, everybody can start. Everybody has an entry point. You know, people talk about athletes, this, everybody somehow is an athlete. Like, we can all do it. You don't need loads of space. No. People think you have to spend hours in a gym.

You know, you get yourself a kettlebell or a set of dumbbells or just your living room. Yeah. And as long as you create an overload, like you say, the muscle will break and then it will repair healthier. I saw yesterday, you know, a picture of Melsie. I don't know if you see Mell C recently. And I looked, I said, to you did her, I said, I want her arms like Melsie. She looks incredible. And there was negative people underneath.

She's gone too far. She looks like a man. I was looking at her thinking, she's giving herself the best chance to go the most, not just about the length of her life, the quality of life. But it's also genetics, like as well. And I think that is so often dismissed from this conversation. I remember being at school and I wanted to look like Cindy Crawford, because that's what we also maybe wanted back in the whatever it was 80s 90s she's

six foot for crying out I'm five foot three I am never going to look like Cindy Gryffin and I think as soon as we kind of like reframe that and understand that we are unique we cannot and we will never look like the person we think that we're trying to look like give up because you're never going to get there to be the best version of you be the best version of yourself and you know move because the ripple effect then as well which I which I talk about in my birthday is coming out in February the ripple effect on your family like you know this country at the moment is experiencing the highest rates of diabetes and obesity and it's like how how when we are so educated around exercise and nutrition

is that happening and and it's the way we include our kids and talk to our kids now you know my big two they they move they're not as into fitness but my youngest like he because he's been with me on this whole journey he wants to lift weights and he loves it and I see your guys in the gym with you you know and that is how we make it positive that is is how we like reframe it and reframe it then hopefully for ourselves as well great not to wrap up on but before you go we have got some quick fire questions which we ask everyone don't we we do because we're just nosy okay jama and i've invited ourselves down to your lovely house in kent okay

And we're expecting you to cook for us. So what are you going to whip back in the kitchen? I would make you my favourite, this is why I'm going to look at your faces, tofu, mushroom, red pepper, spinach, omelet. Oh, that sounds divine. Yeah, it's delicious. It is really good at omelets.

Mine always end up looking like scrambled eggs. Well, it depends which ones I'm putting on Instagram. Yeah. It's either an omelette or scrambling. Real life, you know, Instagram worthy. Yeah, I give it a go, but never... Get an omelop pan. You can get specific omelet pans.

Yeah, and also grill. So you do the bottom and then grill the top. Okay, I'm going to try this weekend. I do love an omelet. Right, you are going to a desert island for 12 months in the sunshine, but you can only take one thing. What is it? Hmm.

Only take one thing. I mean, that's really hard. that's really hard on transit because I'd say phone so that I could call my family you want to switch off and we were saying are we coming back from the island how long we away from you can't have a charger 12 months okay I can exercise I don't need weights have I got water I think water's given I think there's a there's a fresh water waterfall on this desert I would take a notebook a notebook a journal yeah a journal yeah Coffee or wine?

Coffee. Yes, same as us. What's one thing that people watching or listening today can do to make themselves just that little bit better? Get outside every day. Yeah. Whatever the weather. That's been the same answer for everyone. We all know, you see, everyone knows.

Yes. Well, Kate, thank you so much. I've thoroughly enjoyed, well, we see each other regularly, but I've loved you coming on the podcast. We've been trying to do this for a few months. So thank you. It's been great, isn't it? Yeah, thank you so much. where can people find you what's your Instagram page yeah so it's Kate RH underscore

fitness you mentioned a book as well so you have a book coming out in February yeah so I've got the longevity solution which is coming out on the 12th of February and that is kind of an extension of the last book that's suitable for you know everyone it's got the longevity exercises and it's got a little plan as well and I'm really excited for that one great yeah can't wait with it thank you very Thank you for having me.