Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Michelle Heaton: Addiction, Menopause and Finding Sobriety

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

Michelle Heaton joins Gemma Atkinson and Claire Sanderson for one of the most powerful episodes of Just As Well. From her rise to fame in Liberty X to the pressures of life in the spotlight, Michelle reflects on the highs and the challenges of her career — including body image struggles and the intense scrutiny of the early 2000s. She speaks candidly about her battle with alcohol addiction, the moment she realised she needed help, and what life was really like behind closed doors. Michelle also opens up about undergoing a full hysterectomy in her 30s after testing positive for the BRCA2 gene, and how early menopause impacted her mental and physical health. Now nearly five years sober, Michelle shares how she rebuilt her life, her marriage and her sense of self — and the daily practices that keep her grounded today. Want more from Women’s Health? Join the Women’s Health COLLECTIVE for workouts, exclusive events and expert advice to unlock your fittest self - Train smarter. Live better. Visit www.womenshealthmag.com/uk/wh-podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, I'm Gemma Hickinson. And I'm Clay Sanderson. We've just recorded another episode of Just As Well with the wonderful Michelle Heaton, who I love even more now. I mean... I just wanted to give her a kutch. A kutch, it means a cuddle, it's a kutch.

She shared so much for us. She did. And for anyone of my area, you'll know Michelle from Liberty X. She was, in my opinion, she was the most famous Liberty Xer. She was known for her... first of all, her talent on stage and off stage, she was very publicly known for her friendships and relationships with people in high-profile TV shows

and, you know, other celebrities. But throughout it all, she has maintained this level of normality. And she's very humble, very normal and very... She's just very likable, I think. She is, and she's been through so much. Through so much, publicly. Publicly, as her journey through addiction to alcohol and drugs is well documented,

but nevertheless, when you hear her speak about it, as powerfully as she did today, with the raw emotion. When Gemma and I left the studio, we both said we just wanted to cuddle her. She said to give her a cuddle, yeah, and tell her she was okay. You can just see the emotion in her eyes. She looked like she was on the verge of becoming quite. upset throughout the whole conversation and to think this woman experienced addiction to the level she did and please do listen to hear some of the shocking details yet

maintain her marriage and have two young children at home and to come through it to be the woman who sat with us today is truly quite remarkable she was also very open about having a hysterectomy in her 30s a full hysterectomy in her 30s the reasons why she did it and how she cope with that as well. So it's a very powerful episode and as always if you are struggling with addiction there is help. Michelle recommended the Samaritans and we will pop on here as well any advice and help lines for anyone who is struggling. But please please do enjoy this episode and yeah here's Michelle Heaton on just as well. And as always please do like, subscribe, share if you know anyone who you think will benefit from this specific episode,

please send it to them. You could save a life by listening to this episode. And here it is. Michelle, thank you so much for joining us today on Just as well. Thank you for having me. And we are in our studios. You've come in on a lovely sunny day, lovely spring morning in London.

It's very nice. I did a good half-hour walk here. Parked at Regent's Park and walked it down. That was a great idea. And then, you know, makeup was all sweating off. By the time I got here, but it was going to get in. That feels about women's health. We're all about women's health.

walking a woman's health. We were saying before you came in, Michelle, you have had quite the journey of not just career, but your personal life, your health, your wellness. And we wanted to go back to the beginning because, I mean, it's a bit starstruck for me because when Liberty X started, I mean, I was in my fan girl era, do you know what I mean?

It was, you were everywhere. It was one of the biggest UK pop bands, you toured. How was that being just thrust in front of the public eye? Do you know what? Like you say that and I still feel like a fan girl now the fact that I've lived that life I still have the pinch me moments

For me I was auditioning for quite a while Before Liberty X auditioned came upon So I had a little bit in the industry In different bands and stuff that didn't quite make it But that particular audition was the first of its kind It was the first reality TV show It was the first thing that we got to see bands made on TV for TV purposes

And so as I was going in that audition, none of us had any expectations of what was going to come out of it. We just went to another audition that was advertised in the stage, like the rest of them. And then all of a sudden, you know, it was primetime TV. And it was a lot. It really was. But I have to say, I know a lot of people have that negative kind of memory of being in bands and what it was like with relationships and within bands and what happened in the industry. I honestly had the best time, Gemma. Like, I loved it.

Like, we were pop stars. Like, I got to live out my absolute dream. Sing and perform on stage. Everything I wanted, like, my whole life. And I got to live that out. So for me, I look back in it with fond memories. Yeah, there was, you know, a few bits and pieces and negativity in the press. And, you know, people weren't always kind.

But it was exactly how you think it would be, for me anyway, my experience. How old were you? I was 20. 21. And I remember I was old. So I was one of the oldest ones who auditioned because the advertisement said between 16 and 21. And I had been like auditioning back and forwards from London, Newcastle for quite some time. And so I knew I was coming to the end of my shelf life, which, you know, at 21's young, especially these days. It's not like that these days. You can be of any age and, you know, become a star, I suppose. But back then it was very age restricted. So it was like my last

chance and yeah and luckily it happened it happened in a massive way i mean you guys were everywhere yeah and you say obviously you look back with fond memories which is was great what was the happiest time for you in the band was the one specific moment or um i think an a collective of of moments like top of the pops which isn't around anymore cd uk having that um that that friendship with the other bands is in that era, blue, atomic kitten, you know, I suppose the spice goods had just finished, but you had, you know, Mel C and Mell B and everybody individually. And it was just great fun. I remember being on the last episode of chums and SMTV.

Oh, yeah, when Moriah Carey was a bridesmaid and cats and Dek got married. And Liberty X and he say and Blue and a few others, we were in the wedding party. Like that kind of thing you can't write up. Like that's an unimaginable, like a level of fame and being with the people like you've bought singles for and all of that. That was amazing. But I think one of the highlights was Richard No. 1 in the UK

and having Richard Branson give us our number one, you know, double, triple platinum plaque from the album. And just there was moments are unbelievable. Which song was it? It was for just a list. A little. Cat suits. One of the best pop songs ever.

Yeah. You could still sing along and know every word now all these years later. We have hit throwback Thursday on our radio. Amazing. We play it every day on throwback every Thursday. Oh, thanks guys.

We always stick it on and you just picture the catsuits. Yeah. And the polls. Yeah. Mine was actually a cat dress. I couldn't fit in the cat suit. I was a bit bigger back then. And I thought,

I suppose that was my, the thing that I was battling the most with my, my fluctuation with my weight, my eating behaviours, which was, I suppose, in an addictive way, which obviously, you know, set the path for things to come. But I was struggling with my eating habits back then, and I would eat for comfort, you know, made me feel good and then made me feel bad,

and then I would punish myself and eat more. And I couldn't quite, you know, get the gist of it. And it's still something that I can suffer with today, you know, binge eating, you know, one's, you know, two less. and I eat more once I start and that kind of relationship with certain things has obviously paved the way that

in my addiction is going forward. And that was at a time when the industry was you had to be heroin chic. In fire saw something this morning I was flicking on the ground this morning and it was showing a magazine cover from like 2002 I think it was and it was Britney Spears on stage

and she was like in the middle of a dance move so she was God forbid bending and God forbid she had a bit of skin and a bit of a role. And the headline was, Brittany bigger than ever. Yeah. And a circle around her stomach with an arrow. And you think, it annoyed me even now, reading it.

Yeah, I mean, they were very unforgiving, weren't they? The press back then, you know, certain magazines and a lot of them, newspapers, front cover. I had a lot of that throughout the band. And, you know, because I was the biggest one in the band, I certainly wasn't huge, but I was the biggest one in the band. It was very much apparent that, you know, that I was single day out was at. And I liked to have a good time. I liked to go out. I dated famous boys and I had a right laugh. I really, I laughed for you. I laughed at it. You know, like I dated people that I had, like from Holyooges. Yeah. I had their pictures on my walls, you know, you know, in Newcastle.

And then I ended up dating, you know, one of them was Gary Leasy. And I remember like we had a couple of dates and we had a great time it didn't work out but it's like wow like you know like I was a psycho at home with his picture on my wall it was like me with a footballer's care I had footballers on me wall he wanted to do you know how I mean oh high-fiving Michelle those were the days big tick I didn't live then oh it's so much fun because it was no there wasn't social very early then so I always joke I mean thank God there wasn't back then but I Yeah. Anyone doing your job now with the scrutiny of the press

as well as a scrutiny of people having access to a keyboard to just write and tell you what you think would be horrendous. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, thank goodness. Social media wasn't around in the early 90s. I mean, we wouldn't have got away with that after stuff we did anyway. No. So you're on a healthy relationship with food

and in your words, eating disorder or disordered eating. Maybe it's not an eating disorder, but disordered eating. do you think that was sparked by the level of scrutiny you were under or is it something that predated it and was just intensified by your lived experience? Yeah, exactly the latter. Yeah, it was something that I'd always been battling with to out my childhood, body image, you know, lack of confidence.

It's funny because you have to have a level of confidence to be able to go for these auditions, right? And put me on stage and it was like I could be anything, anybody. But take me off stage. and I was just like, I was really a scared young girl. I didn't know who I was supposed to be. And I was always trying to, you know, we hear this a lot of fitting, be friends with everybody,

mauls myself and my personality to fit in with friendship groups. And that has definitely got better now. But that definitely, you know, carried on throughout until my 30s, I'd say, where I would like, I would manipulate myself so that I didn't stand out. but I wanted to do what I did without being stood out for. It's really hard to explain. I didn't like all eyes on me

but then I went into this career that was like that and so I learned very quickly that it was like that and then having to fit into that malls that's when my behaviour around food and body image became more intensified, yeah. At what point,

because you've been really open and honest with your alcohol addiction which has helped so many people like genuinely so many people at what point did you start to drink I mean obviously you like you said you had a good tie like we did back then but at what point did you think

this is a crutch I'm not just doing it for fun I kind of need to do it for a long time a long time alcohol was always part of my life you know culture growing up in Gates at Newcastle it was always there

and in the industry it is it's always there but I must stress you know being in the industry didn't make me an alcoholic or a drug addict, right? I didn't have that relationship with the alcohol when I was in the band. It became later on. Where that great area crossed,

and I crossed that line, I can't tell you, I don't know. I think most people who are in addictions would agree that, you know, you don't see it yourself. It's other people who see it first. And when those people point it out to you, you tend to hide it more, drink more. and manipulate, you know, your substance addiction. I think that maybe two years prior to me getting help

and so I'm almost five years sober now coming up in April. And so five, so seven years ago, I had an intervention from my family and my friends and they wanted me to go rehab and get help. And they could see it. I was still in denial. And I swore blind. I would get help and I would stop.

And I really, really, really meant it. Like at that point, I meant it. I had been in that hospital. I knew I wasn't well. And then when I convinced them to not send me away, I had huge fear around people finding out. Would I lose jobs? I was about to do Pantel.

We needed the money. You know, all of that. And then when I tried to get better, I realized I couldn't stop. and so then I carried on for two more years and I hid it more and in face in front of people I would be

as really as good as I could be but I was secretly drinking if my husband brought back a bottle of wine now he doesn't drink so my husband's never tasted alcohol before but sometimes he'd bring home a bottle of wine because I'd ask him to because he knew I'd get it otherwise yeah you know he had no idea that I'd already be in like quarter

of Elisa Down in vodka that particular day and it got to the point where I would wake up I would be very sick if I didn't drink I remember times when until I drank that particular day I would be violently sick and shake and then the drink would then calm me so it wasn't so it was medicating me

I was worse without it and so when I tried to stop I couldn't understand why I felt worse so then I would continue to drink and yeah that went on for a good couple of years after that so you mentioned before the first intervention attempt you'd been in hospital yeah because of your drinking so what happened there

I was losing control of my bodily fluids and my skin was becoming translucent and I was very itchy obviously I know now it's because my liver was onset of sclerosis of the liver and my pancreas wasn't working properly I still have promised with it today. And I lied about how much alcohol consumption I was drinking

and lied through my back teeth about everything else. And I was tested for everything other than alcoholism at that point. You know, IBS, Crohn's, you know, you name it. I literally tried to throw the book at the excuses and almost convinced the medical professionals that it was something else. until they did test my alcohol limit and I got told if I didn't calm down and they didn't tell me to stop

if I didn't slow it down then then it would I would die and then I think I think there was about six months before I went to rehab after that still and how much are we talking about every single day every day like a bottle two bottles of wine or yeah I'd say I'd say like towards the end, like maybe the last six months,

I would have vodka every day, that's for sure. And then it became, it became kind of like the cheapest, nastiest vodka I could find money was running out. And it wasn't about how it tasted. It was like self-medicating. And then, yeah, I would probably have a couple of bottles of wine most nights. And this was hidden a lot.

A lot of this was hidden. and it wasn't in plain view. But it was obviously quite evident around my friendship groups because they were contacting my husband regularly and he was just lost. And, you know, all of these people around me had said it to me countless times, you know, it's not like they weren't saying it to me,

but when you're in addiction, you can't hear it and you don't want to hear it. And you kind of push it aside, you blame everybody else. It's on you, it's your fault. if you were like me, if you went through everything I went through, you would drink like me, you know, all of these excuses. And then I just ran out of excuses, Gemma, like, I just, the easiest way to describe it is, is like I was just done.

And I was with my friend. I was with Katie Price at the time and she was in a really good place. And I hadn't seen her like that before. And I just thought, you know, God, if she can do it, maybe I can. And it kind of took me, recognise my. myself and somebody else to understand that it could be possible. And then like over the course of a couple of days, just pennies kind of dropped.

And I just was done fighting. Yeah, and then I asked for help. And help was always there. It just didn't want it, you know? And it's interesting you say like you blame other people. We had Divinia Taylor on, didn't he? She spoke about how she was an alcoholic. And she actually explained now,

because obviously she's got into the science of why. And she said, I didn't like the feeling of being drunk. It was the feeling the alcohol gave me mentally. She said, I could function better. I didn't feel as ill. I didn't feel, she said it wasn't like I wanted to walk around being pissed all day. But she said, I could get everything done throughout the day if I had alcohol. Yeah, yeah, totally relate to that.

Yeah. It's exactly the same. Like, you know, as far as I was concerned, alcohol made me a better person, a nicer person. You know, especially when I went through the menopause so early. I went through the menopause when I was 33, 33, I think. And now I'm 46, so that's the maths in that. And I lost myself in menopause, you know, after my hysterectomy. And I couldn't relate to my friends who weren't going through it.

So while my peers around me, they didn't want to talk about, you know, like a sex drive or confusion or itchiness or night sweats because they weren't going through it. And it's not on them, you know, I didn't want to be complaining about all this stuff either. I felt like a right drag. And alcohol helped me stay the way I was. That's the easiest way of saying it. So I related to my friends again. And when I was going out, I was still fun, Michelle.

And so I liked that version of me. And so did my friends, you know. And so I continued that until it crossed that. line obviously. And why did you go through the menopause when you were 30? I have Bracker 2 so I've got the I suppose it's a defective gene so it's not doesn't work properly and so I have a I had an 85 to 9% risk of breast cancer so I had a double mastectomy reconstruction 14 years ago and then I had a total hysterectomy because it or it increased my risk to 35 40% of ovarian. I'm my mind. I'm my My dad's mom and her mom passed away from ovarian cancer in their 30s.

So it was something, yeah, that we took the decision to do. You've really been through it, haven't you? Goodness. And you've got your lovely husband and your two children, but you've been trying to navigate family life while enduring. I'll be in the mom. Yeah. And the moms are supposedly got it together.

You're trying to manage all that. but still make sure your little beings are okay. Yeah. Make sure school's good, homework, you're a good partner. I mean, all that menopause stuff you just described, I'm currently going through now. Before this, I don't look old enough, don't like, oh, my God, oh, you still look, oh, you're still gorgeous.

I'm 42 this time. But I imagine going through it 10 years ago, I would have, the shop, you deal with everything differently, different life stages. Yeah, absolutely. And you look at the, you look at the, things differently in different life stages. How did it affect your home life when it all became clear?

Because you're, I mean, I don't know your partner, but he just seems the most wonderful, like, I mean, he's still there. Yeah, I know. I'm very blessed. His head's going to get big hearing you say that. He's a big fan, Gemma. I think, yeah, I am very blessed with a very loving, at support of an understanding husband. And he's very rare.

I understand how lucky I am, I really am. And he has, he stuck by me, he knew I was always there. You know, through the whole menopause, the decision of having my total hysterectomy back then, I wasn't prepared for menopause. I think that's the easiest way of saying it. I didn't know enough. I wouldn't have changed my reasoning behind having the operation.

However, I think that I definitely could have prepared myself better, especially with the kids being so young. You know, AJ just turned six months, and so the kids were very, very young. And I just thought that I could attack it like everything else in life. Let's do this. Be fine. I'll move on.

Everything will be absolutely fine. And that's kind of how I treat life, right? What problem we've got? Let's deal with the problem and then we'll move on. This is different. You know, the menopause affects us in very different and life-changing ways. and I definitely approached it like I would have done everything else and I think menopause is a different species altogether.

Especially with a six-month-old. I mean, it takes over a year for your body hormonally to re-regulate and go back to normal after kids, doesn't it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was very early. The fact that you then going through all that when your body hasn't settled postpartum, you know, that's a lot. Yeah, it was.

You know, it still is, you know, I suppose, because I still have my HR, and so, you know, I'm aware I get my, I get tested every six to 12 months to see where my hormone levels are at, see where they need less or more testosterone, like it's an ongoing thing because when you have a hysterectomy and everything's taken away, it's like everything's gone. So it doesn't slowly, you know, come down, your hormones don't go over time, it's just gone. So then replacing them straight away was really important. But then getting the right levels throughout the rest of your life, yeah. It is a battle, it is. But, you know, we dealt with it and we got on.

And I think like when I went through the menopause or going through the menopause, that definitely affected my relationship with alcohol. Whilst I think I definitely had issues and, you know, one of my good friends, Denise Welsh describes it as functioning alcoholic. I was one of those for quite some time. Where I became dependent on alcohol was quite probably shortly after those operations, you know, just dependent. Because for most people who have a normal quote-unquote relationship with alcohol, it's quite hard to grasp how you move from wine o'clock, which is what women across the country do regularly,

to drinking vodka out of water bottles, which I hear you describe that you do. know, taking water bottles into kids' parties and stuff. And do you remember that moment where you evolved into that level of alcoholism, that it was secretive and do the cheap vodka, putting it in water bottles, the real, the behaviour which is not? Yeah. It was definitely a slow progression. It didn't happen overnight.

It wasn't, I don't remember a lot. But I definitely remember. thinking it was a good idea to take alcohol in plastic bottles at some point, you know, to the cinema, to the park, you know, after school, you know, on a bank holiday, on a Friday, you know, when the kids finish early and everyone's at the park and all the kids are there and like drinking, you know, I wasn't alone. People do that, you know.

And then, but then it became more of an excuse after school. Okay, can we go to the pub because there's a park there? but we wanted to go because I wanted to drink. And then it became, oh, it's Monday. Oh, you know, we'll start on Tuesday. And then I suppose the days merged into it almost being every day. And then at the point where it was like I woke up and needed a drink, it was through COVID. So I was definitely an alcoholic before COVID.

So COVID didn't make me an alcoholic. But what it did do, and I believe that this is. nationwide, you know, worldwide, is that it allowed us to make excuses of when we drank and how we drank. And, you know, I know I'm not alone in saying this that the progression that people had

through COVID, we still are not seeing how that alcohol tendencies has affected people going forward. What they got reliant on over that time and that period of drinking in the house and having the close-knit friends, is we're still yet to see what's happened with alcoholism

in those masses of people now because it's hard to then switch off the behaviour that you drank with alcohol all of a sudden. So they've probably continued that relationship and then going forward, that's how it evolves. It was the weather as well. I mean, we did our show from home during COVID and because it was from home, it couldn't be live.

So we had to pre-record it. So I'd finish my pre-record by like 5 o'clock. Yeah. And if the sun was out, yeah. Yeah, it was in the paddling pool with gawker, I'd think, I mean, and I'm not a massive drinker by any means, but I'd get a gin and tonic.

Yeah, yeah. Because it was sunny and we're having our tea outside and I didn't have to be anywhere. Yeah. And, you know, luckily we then started going back into work just in a closed studio. So then I couldn't because obviously I had to drive into work. But there is small parts for me that thing, not that I would have become an alcoholic

because I just know I don't like the taste enough and I'm just not very, I'm just not a very big drinker. But I could have easily got into the habit of gin and tonic with my tea. Yeah, sure. If the weather was nice and we were outside, it was the, oh, why not? Someone's doing it somewhere. Yeah, exactly.

It's like when you go on holiday, people automatically. Oh, yeah, you drink alcoholically on holiday. Yeah, they get in the airport. But then, you know, most people can put it down and stuff. You know, I couldn't, yeah. So when you went and got help for you, to really like this was the last leg, this is what I'm doing. How easy did you find that recovery?

Was it scary the thought of life without alcohol or was the prospect of life without you being in it for your family more frightening? It's really hard for people to understand that when you're in addiction, active addiction, and you're that far gone like I was and you really want to stop but you can't. it's not that it doesn't matter what's happening with your family or how much they're suffering,

it's that you just cannot stop for anybody until you're ready, until you've admitted it to yourself. So that's one thing to recognize, I suppose, like I'm not doing it because I want to see my family or my kids hurt or that I want them scared of when mommy's going to be drunk or when mommy's going to be passed out on the floor, all of that, like that should be enough for somebody to do. stop drinking but when you're addicted to alcohol it isn't it's really hard to say that out loud

that doesn't mean that we're bad parents it just means that we cannot stop doing what we're doing that's what's called an addiction it's a mind altering substance um but for me i think the the reality of when i came out of rehab that 28 days was a big thing you know it clears your mind you get sober you realise what you get educated on what you suffer with, you have an idea of what alcoholism is, you realise what alcohol is done for you, but then the hard work starts when you come out.

You know, you go back home. You don't have that support system as rehab and you've still got your life, you've still got your kids, you've got your husband, you've got your day-to-day and your work. You've got the off-licence down the road. You've got the parties you're getting by it to.

It wasn't easy, like the first six months. I remember like I had this, and I can feel it when I describe it. Like I have this hauled over my heart and my body and it's just, and it's pressure, and it's getting worse and worse and worse, and I can't breathe. And I remember feeling like that for at least six months afterwards and being scared of my own shadow, being scared to leave the house in case I drank. And that fear was also emulated with my family.

You know, the trust had to be rebuilt up. I obviously wasn't getting work. My band members didn't want to go out on the road for gigs in case I drank for my own, you know, my own health, not for anything else. So that had to slowly be worked on and built back up as well. How honest were you with your children about the realities of your addiction and alcohol generally? As honest as I could be, at the time, they thought I was in a hospital. But I was there because I got poorly from drinking too much beseco.

And they knew that mummy drank a lot anyway. But luckily, my kids hadn't been privy to anything. It would have got to that point, but anything dangerous. Like drink driving. I was always very good at manipulating. I mean, I say drink driving, you know. Like when you drink late at night, he used to stay in the next morning,

you're not over the limit when you're taking the school, you know? That's a reality of it. But I was very good at manipulating school pick up. up getting a friend to drop them home, going to a friend's house who lives next to the school. You know, it would be a minefield of things every day. But the kids were aware of all of that. And obviously, everything's online. Yeah.

Right. So the kids know everything. There's no question that's off-barred for me. If they want to ask me a question about anything that's happened in the past, I'll answer them as honesty as I can. You know, everything's on there, like my divorce from my ex-husband. you know, dates for Gary Lucy, you know, like everything is on there for them to see.

And so I have to be open and honest. The last thing I want is them to grow up. And husbands obviously agrees with me because we're a partnership is that they find something out on the internet or be told something that they thought was untrue from my mouth. And that would be the worst case scenario.

So I feel like I have to be open and honest. But also Michelle, as well, you're a fantastic mum and I think what we all have to remember as parents because I do the whole thing like the stuff on the internet of me oh my god my bloody chebs are on the internet my boobs your boobs yeah I'm pretty sick mine dropped out

I'm on old afoot chebts there is that word your chebbs is that like a northern thing? I've got drunk pictures of me leaving after parties and all kinds but we were all someone before we were mum's Yeah. And that's still okay. We can still be the best most incredible parents who had a life before we were lucky enough to be parents.

And, you know, I always joke with Gawker because he grew up in Spain, so he wasn't aware of things that used to go on here. But I want to one day sit down with me and be like, my gosh, you think that's bad. I wanted to come to me when she does anything. Yeah. I don't want her to be like, I can't tell my mum, she'll go mad.

Absolutely. I want her to be like, tell me mum, she'll know what to do, because she's done it. Yeah. And there will be a time when Faith or AJ come home and go like, Mom, this has happened. And you'd be like, take a seat, son, I did it back in the Nauties, don't worry.

Yeah, exactly. And do you know what I mean? Without those experiences and without having those feelings and expect, you know, things that we did, you'd nothing to share with them. Yeah, no, I totally agree 100%. And I feel like I've got quite a very good, healthy relationship with my children

and because of that, because of the openness. And Faith is very good at opening up to me and telling me things that's gone on. And I think also, because we were so open and nothing was off limits, Faith has no interest in the kind of things that we're talking about today. She's very headstrong.

You know, Hughes never tastes alcohol, like I said earlier, you know. So now she's in a sober household. The last five years of her life has been a sober household. And her intentions in life is completely opposite to what I would have been thinking about at 14 and 15. And I do believe that's shifting in the world as well. I do believe the narrative's changing. You know, young people are more about health and fitness.

I was speaking to Hugh the other day. And he was just saying, you know, he would have loved to be in a teenager in this era because... Match of teas. Yeah, the focus is about, okay, on a Friday night, you go to the gym, we are pals. Or you go play a football match instead of, right, where's the next pub? Now, obviously that's still around,

but it just isn't the same, is it? You were faced down in field, weren't you? I was faced down in field. I've got a son the same age as faith, so 14, and he's very sporty, very good at sport, but the parties have started, the house parties, and there's drink already. And thus far, he hasn't drunk,

because we pick him up at 10, 30, 11 o'clock, and you could smell it on him. But we know friends of his have done. We know one's parents were called because he was drinking these sort of cocktail concoctions that you can buy in the supermarket, beforehand, you know. And we tried to have a talk with my son on the weekend and said,

we think this is all a bit too young because if you're drinking now, they're in year nine. Yeah, that's right. Same space. What are they going to be doing when they're 16? You know, drugs aren't coming to the equation. Probably not, hopefully not. You know, they're very sporty kids, educated kids.

But it is a worry. Yeah, of course. You've got AJ coming through now. He's 12 as well. But I imagine the terror for you. you must be all the more intense because you maybe they've inherited the gene, the addictive gene from you and you don't know. Yeah, I mean, if I'm being honest, I'm not quite sure I'm a believer in an addictive gene because the reasoning is I have no alcoholism in my family. Um, mom and dad aren't

brothers not. Nobody in their descent were and I just became addicted to something that that made me feel different and made me feel good. I would hope that hasn't been inherited, but I would say that I think AJ's want, I think boys, boys in general are a little bit more mischievous. And if AJ's anything like me at school, you know, we're a bit of a follower as well. And that worries me with the kids.

And you're right, you know, house parties do start. And things are offered to them. what can we do other than just be there for them, hopefully they'll be honest with us, and just make sure that we pick them up, right? It's difficult. You can't be there with them. You can't hold their hand the whole way through it.

It's pay pressure for them as well, isn't it? With school and stuff. We used to, remember, we had a, I went to a house party once, and my mum had got called, and she dragged me in the car. And then she literally, my sister's seven years old, older than me. My sister was very naughty. So I was quite restricted in things. And my mum said,

I don't want you to stop you doing it, but you just have to be safe. And so she let me have friends around the following weekend. You could come at seven, they had to leave for 11. We had two Smirnoff Ice, danced at the Spice Girls. And that was in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, we weren't around her. Yeah. But that was, and she said in the morning the house was a mess where they were in like the conservatory area, there was bottles. She said, but it was you and your five best friends who were still my best friends today. And she said, I knew where you were,

the parents knew where you were, and you had your little smear enough ice. So you were all, and we, you know, we, of course we went to more house parties without a knowing, but that was in her mind, her way of not stopping the fun, but controlling it to a point where no one was sick and no one was hurt.

And that worked for us. Yeah, I get that. I mean, it's better in someone's house than literally down the park, which I was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, mine was the social club. Yeah, gosh. I remember my first drink.

My first drink was at my friend's house. I think I was 12 or 13. I think we started younger back then as well. Yeah, definitely. And I was so sick. I think it was, oh, it's snowballs. Yeah. Like I laughed through it, but it makes me nervous

because, you know, it's a drug. And it's the most addictive drug, one of the most addictive drugs, the most common addictive drugs. drug, alcohol in its form. And it's so widely accepted and championed as well. Normalised. Yeah.

Completely normalised. So you are very into wellness now. It's a catch-all phrase for feeling wonderful. But you love your exercise. We were speaking earlier about the supplements that you take. When did wellness and living well become part of your recovery? I believe that, you know, I was always interested in staying fit and healthy. and when I met my husband, which was 16 years ago, 16 and a half years ago now,

he was working as a manager for one of the gym clubs over in Ireland. And he has always been massively into it. He used to play professional golf and he's just a massive sports person. And so I suppose a bit of that rubbed off. So he met me when I was just newly divorced. I was a couple of more storn than I had. what I'm now and he loved me for me so it wasn't a thing of changing me you know he knew what he got proof he was in the pudding um so to speak but um his ways definitely rubbed off on me and i could see

that there was you know a better way to live and get more out of life obviously then alcoholism came into it and my menopause and all of that so um but my fitness journey started a long time ago when I was in recovery I focused obviously on health and fitness and getting my body back to the way that I felt comfortable and using that escape as my therapy so my new addiction which you know I don't mind saying is the gym

it's not really a new addiction it's just something that I've been able to focus on makes you feel good yeah it makes me feel good like I suppose the way that alcohol made me feel every day if I didn't have a drink I didn't feel right. If I don't do something active or I don't put something good in my body,

I don't feel right. And, you know, I'm a sucker for my binge days as well. If I start off the day without working out and having something I shouldn't, the whole day's messed up. It is a no-go.

I'm a nightmare. It's like this thing in your brain, isn't it? It's like you can salvage yourself. You could have like, I could go to the Waffle House and get something and then that would be it.

I could be fine for the rest of day. He was great at doing that. He will be absolutely perfect for the rest of it. I can't. Once I've done that, it is all, all off. And when you were saying about addiction,

how people wouldn't understand, I read something that, it was said, you're addicted to something if the thought of living without it for the rest of your life makes you a little bit uneasy. And for alcohol for me,

I can give a take, I've not drank, it was when I went to C5, the reunion, so I'm not drunk since November, fine, but with, like, sweet stuff, like with chocolate. Yeah.

If someone said you will never, ever eat, I don't, I don't know if I could. Yeah. Because it's like... I definitely couldn't. Yeah. And it's that same...

Obviously it's a lot more of intense feeling. But it is exactly the same. But it is the exact same. So anyone who does, oh, why can't they just stop? They have to think of the most... The most important thing in their life that they love to do, like gambling or eating a specific food.

And if the thought of never having that again, make sure a bit uneasy, that's just a fraction of what an addict goes through to stop. All of those you just mentioned, it all impacts the brain. You know, it releases that. that hormone in your brain that makes you want more. So like that, it's like, say when you go to the cinema,

I'm never in my life gone to the cinema without having pick and mix. Yeah, I can't go without sweets. And I think I'm not hungry, it's full of shite, but I'm literally, I'm not even looking in it. I'm looking at the film, eating mindlessly. And I put my hand in and it's gone and I think, well, is that gone. I make excuses to go at the cinema to see stuff I don't even want to see just for the picker mix.

It's because we're programmed. So it's like the chemicals in your brain, it must be so, so difficult. I genuinely applaud you for getting out and you know, you look incredible. When we walked out of the room, we're like, oh, my God, she looks brill. Oh, thanks, girls.

And you both too. You can tell it's, what advice would you give to anyone who is now listening where you were seven years ago thinking there's no way out for them? You know, unless you're really ready and you're ready to admit that you need help,

it's a really difficult one to accept what I'm about to say but if you can see, if you can relate to anything I've said, you know, hiding, manipulating, lying about what you're drinking, it affects you when you wake up, your shake,

you feel better when you have a, had a drink, your relationships begin to dwindle your friendships. That was a massive thing. Like, I lost all my friends. I pushed them all away. I would be horrible. And I blame them. You know, I would say that it's on them. Why don't they like me? And I just was

really not nice and they had to step away because of what I was doing to myself. You know, any of that relatability that you can find, then maybe you need help. You know, there is help out there, you know, Samaritan's the A helpline, that there is an abundance of help out there. I just didn't want it. I thought I could do it myself. And at certain points I liked the madness that I was in until it was too late. You know, I would have died. Like, fundamentally, you know, I would have died. My liver was failing.

My pancreas still doesn't work properly. So I have a huge issue when I do binge eat. I get really bad stomach pains and it doesn't process the sugars properly. And that doesn't even stop me from binge eating the chocolate because I get that thing. Yeah, it's really tricky. It's the body's always,

it just wants to heal all the time and they always say, don't you, the way you treat it, it does kind of, it gives it you back. But once you're in that cycle, and I know every industry has its ups and downs, but the industry that you were in, it is a party every night.

It's an after show party. It's a VIP club entry. It's PAs. You know, back then they used to book you to go to a PA. And they'd say, we'll pay for you and your mates. Have a boob, have drinks on us. Just have your picture at the club. Yeah, I don't remember ever paid for a drink.

No. In the first, say, three years of LibertyX easily. like wherever we went it was always like CDUK like we were there so we would have just landed on a 5am flight from and a Germany say doing the promotion

and we were on CDK and there was a bar open so like me me Tony and Kev used to have like whiskey shots before we even did good morning good morning TV and how many people have a drink as a crutch before they go on stage

or before they do an event or you know yeah was it the lady We had the YouTube lady on, she said she had to have a drink once before. Public speaking, before public speaking. Because she found it terrifying. Yeah. So that was so acceptable.

That was her. When you have a rider, you have your dressing rooms. It's all there, you know. And then when you come off stage, you've got that high and you're trying to calm yourself down so you have a drink. And it's just ongoing, yeah. Because you, you gig now. Yes. So how do you manage now in environments where there is still a lot of alcohol such as clubs that you're playing at?

Yeah, so I do go out a lot, you know, and I go to events, and I go to premieres, and I do gigs, and there's alcohol around a lot. And I suppose at the beginning, it wasn't quite easy. I remember Kelly and Jessica asking for alcohol to be taken off the rider, and that was obviously not to put temptation in my way, and they were worried about me, and I still wanted to work. I needed to work, and so they tried to make it as good. as healthy surroundings as possible, which was great, but in reality, it's there. I do, you know, I do the 12-step program. So I do the steps and I kind of apply that to every way of life and what I've learnt from doing the 12-step program is just accountability, you know, where I need to be accountable for and when I need to say sorry and, you know, I've got to do.

tools in place that I can use if I'm ever tempted or feel like I'm going to. And I'm really, be honest when I say that that hasn't happened, you know, but I work hard. Like, I'm under no impression that if I stop doing what I do, so I do my little morning meditation and I do my gratitude list, if I stop doing what I'm doing sooner or later,

I won't have that defense around me. And when somebody offers me that drink on a random night, going out, I could quite easily go, okay, and drink it. I might be all right. That one drink might be okay but it might not be

and I'm not ready to face that fact and to see what would happen in 10th 8 because I know what I was and how ill I got and what had happened to my family I'm just not, yeah, it's of no interest for me to go back. I'm scared.

Like I don't want to swear about I'm scared of ever going back to where I was. It frightens the life out of me so if I can do anything to avoid that, I will. But I don't need to avoid situations. I feel good. Because you've got the control now. You know, I've got the best friends.

I only surround myself with people who've got my back. Like, I mean, I know it comes with age, but I'm done with people pleasing and having friends that just want something out of me. It's so funny. Like, when I went to rehab and I came out, like a lot of my, a lot of friends that I thought were friends, never even contacted me.

You know, I wasn't any use to them. I wasn't bringing them. the drinking buddy anymore. It's more acquaintances, isn't it? Yeah. And I was devastated at first. I thought, oh my God, I thought we were really good friends.

And it just isn't like that. And so I learned, actually, I don't need people like that. You know, if they don't want to be my friend when I need friends, then they're not worth it. And I'm good with that. We have, I was saying to you in our group,

I normally drive, my mate, she can go out cane it and then do a park run the next day with no effect whatsoever. Yeah. Vicky needs a hair held back at everything. She can't, handle a drink at all. But we all just accept how each other is because we've all just,

you know, one of my close friends, she stopped drinking, she was an alcoholic, she stopped. And her reason was, she just said it dawned on her. She'd never had first time sex sober with any other partners. And I was like, what? Yeah, that's true with me, actually. She said, I've never, the reason why, I mean, she's happily married now with kids, but she said the reason my relationships weren't working is because that first time intimate, with any of them, I was pissed out my head. Yeah. And she says then I'm thinking, how am I supposed to get to know them if every time?

So that was her reason. That's amazing that she realized that. She was like, it's just not working. The alcohol is affecting me, affected my relationship. So she quit, met someone, had the first time sex sober, and was like, oh my God, it's amazing. Look what I've been missing out on because of alcohol. Yeah.

It's a whole different level of intimacy. And I never knew sex without alcohol. either and and given my husband was always sober and now I think back and I go what the hell is he thinking she's not doing reverse cowgirl now I'm like I'm so I'm still shocked he actually got with me in the first place Michelle what does a happy healthy future look like for you uh just um you know I take each day as it comes I try not to take myself too seriously but I know where I need to concentrate on. I go to the gym. I'm as healthy as I can be. I love sweets. I love chocolate. And I just, you know, I've regained control of my life. I have a purpose today. And, you know,

going to the gym and working out and lifting weights and looking after myself and taking supplements is my idea of a purpose for me. It gives me a purpose as well as being a mom and a wife and a good friend and daughter and sister, you know, all of that as well. But for me personally, what fulfills me is getting up out of bed, getting on my day, doing what I love to do, keep myself accountable, and going back home, making the kids dinner and watching Netflix and bed. And that is my idea. I mean, sometimes I wake up in the morning and I can't wait. I fantasize about that time of night at 9 o'clock. And everyone's in their bedrooms and I'm just watching Netflix.

Yeah, it's the best. I don't know if it's sad or something I need to cry about. I love it. My 9pm bedtimes, I love it. Yeah. I think we're all in the house, we're all safe, we're all happy, healthy and I'm going to watch Yellowstone in peace. Yeah, exactly.

With a bar of chocolate. All the house of things have changed. We didn't used to go out to 9 o'clock. I know. My God. I really don't want to sound condescending, but I'm just proud of you. I know. I think you've done amazing, genuinely.

You're a superwoman, a warrior woman. Don't you think. Oh, you're very keen. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's hard to accept praise sometimes, isn't it? especially as women, you go, oh no, but, you know. But thank you.

And you'll have helped so many people because it's one thing we get asked a lot about women's health is addiction and help and how to, because a lot of the time it's admitting there's a problem, which again, women, we don't do. We just crack on. And it's hard for women because I think a lot of people assume alcoholics look like men

and, you know, the paper bags and outside supermarkets and that kind of thing. And, you know, in my experience, it's quite the opposite actually well before you go we will wrap it up we have quick fire questions that we ask all our guests at the end of every episode now this is the most

serious part for all this is where I say something I regret not the rest of it right we're coming to dinner for your we're coming to your house for dinner what are you going to make us fajitas nice nice yeah that's my go-to yeah Mexican spicy yeah yeah yeah

dirty you're like mixing food that you can eat with your hands, I love it. Lovely. You go into a desert island for a year a whole 12 months and you're going to only take one thing and it cannot be your children. We're not allowing people to stay their children. So what would you take?

I wouldn't take them anyway. No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. Am I allowed to pick Chan and Tatum? Yeah. There you go. That's a good one. Happy out. When I used to work at a magazine called Look, I don't know if you remember Look. Yes, of course I do.

And Channing Tatum was my number one at the time. so I used to have cut out Channing Tatum stuck on the wall at my desk Has he done man's health? Not in my tenure I don't think he has He would be good on men's health

Yeah, absolutely, get him in Yes Yeah, I'll make more my dream My husband might be quite nervous If I'd just have a show with Channing Tatum You can only have for the rest of your life Coffee or sweets

Oh Oh, if it was chocolate I would have picked chocolate But I'm going to say coffee Okay. But chocolate over coffee. Yeah. I think so. What was the last thing that made you belly laugh? Um, oh gosh.

Ah, I know, I should really let me think. Let me think. What did we do yesterday? Oh yeah, yeah. So, okay, so Faith, I shouldn't really laugh at this. Faith had a dance show at the local theatre. She had two shows yesterday. She did amazing. But there was these three girls performing together. And just before it went dark, as they left the stage, they all tried to walk off different ways and they bumped into each. And me and Hugh were the only two people. That bit of still laughing in the hall theatre.

And we felt like right players and we just couldn't stop laughing. We thought, you know, thought it was funny and no. No, they did not like that. Mean, laughing at children. Yeah, there weren't even our children. So sorry. And lastly, what's the one thing that someone can do today To make them feel better right now?

Oh Right on a bit of gratitude You know, whenever I feel a bit down And I do practice gratitude anyway every day But I just remind myself what's good Because it really isn't all that bad And if something that you feel is incomprehensible in life And it's really getting you down,

If you're just trying to think of what is positive, it might just change the chemical imbalance in your brain at that moment and it does make you feel better. Yeah, because we're drawn to focus on that one negative. Whereas if you're visually right and see the positives. Yes. Healthy, you got up, you got out of bed. Yeah.

All the simple stuff. Well, Michelle, thank you so much for coming in to see us today. Thank you so much, girls. It's been a privilege to hear about your journey. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if?

Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.